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American Morning
Spy Probe
Aired October 01, 2003 - 08:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to this probe of possible spying at Guantanamo Bay. Ahmed Mehlaba, civilian translator, who worked with the U.S. military, is the third person to be arrested on suspicion of spying at Gitmo. The prison camp at that base is used to detain suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban members. Authorities say Mehlaba was carrying classified documents related to prisoners there when he was arrested Monday at the airport in Boston.
Jonathan Turley, law professor at George Washington University, with us now to talk us about this case.
Good morning to see you again. It's been a while since we've spoken.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: Good morning to you.
If charges of civilian, what's the distinction of being a member of the military and being a member of the civilian population?
TURLEY: Well, actually I've handled cases both in the civilian and military system. I can tell you, as a defense lawyer, it's a world of difference. The rules are very different. It's easier to convict someone in the military, because you have very generic types of violations, like orders violations, which are usually quite easy to prove. And so, to some extent, both defendants and defense counsel would prefer to be in federal court, as this individual is.
Now he's just facing right now what is a very standard false statements charge, what's called an ATUSC1001 charge, and all that means is when you're asked by investigators questions, you gave them false information. Now that is a very typical charge for the feds to hold you with, but it is most certainly not going to be the last charge that he faces.
HEMMER: The word from the Pentagon late yesterday is that there is no connection between these three men. Do you see it the same way, based on what we know?
TURLEY: Well, it's early -- I mean you -- it's very difficult when you've got three individuals, they have common ties in their functions at Guantanamo Bay, all who have been nailed for similar types of violations, but that doesn't mean that they're linked. I mean, what this individual is facing is not just false charges, but he also is someone who removed, according to this indictment, classified information from a secured facility to an insecure location. He may have been guilty of what's called unauthorized disclosure. Each of those can bring a 10-year sentence, and the false charges can bring a five-year sentence and a $250,000 fine.
HEMMER: Jonathan, reading your comments with our CNN producers, two things frighten you. You say what's on the CDs? What is the evidence contained on there? And also, what's the motivation? Are those the key factors that prosecutors are looking at right now?
TURLEY: I think that is. So far, they're been designated a secret. And secret is relatively low in the great scheme of things. There's confidential secret, top secret, and TSSCI, and then above that is eyes only. So secret classifications can be some fairly routine issues, like manuals, but it is still a violation of federal law to disclose it.
But motivation becomes important in any trial. Was he trying to give this, as is alleged with an Air Force translator, to a country like Syria or Egypt? Or was he trying to bring this out as a whistleblower? Or is this what we deal with as a trophy find? Sometimes you've got people who leave classified positions and they can't resist leaving without a trophy, something with a secret marking on it, and they really have no motivation, except very bad judgment.
HEMMER: Yes. Meanwhile, we're getting word from the Pentagon today already, Jonathan, that investigators have reported at Guantanamo Bay, trying to figure out what is happening down there. And clearly not the end of this story.
Nice to see you again, Jonathan.
TURLEY: Good to see you.
HEMMER: Come on back sometime. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 1, 2003 - 08:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to this probe of possible spying at Guantanamo Bay. Ahmed Mehlaba, civilian translator, who worked with the U.S. military, is the third person to be arrested on suspicion of spying at Gitmo. The prison camp at that base is used to detain suspected Al Qaeda and Taliban members. Authorities say Mehlaba was carrying classified documents related to prisoners there when he was arrested Monday at the airport in Boston.
Jonathan Turley, law professor at George Washington University, with us now to talk us about this case.
Good morning to see you again. It's been a while since we've spoken.
JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: Good morning to you.
If charges of civilian, what's the distinction of being a member of the military and being a member of the civilian population?
TURLEY: Well, actually I've handled cases both in the civilian and military system. I can tell you, as a defense lawyer, it's a world of difference. The rules are very different. It's easier to convict someone in the military, because you have very generic types of violations, like orders violations, which are usually quite easy to prove. And so, to some extent, both defendants and defense counsel would prefer to be in federal court, as this individual is.
Now he's just facing right now what is a very standard false statements charge, what's called an ATUSC1001 charge, and all that means is when you're asked by investigators questions, you gave them false information. Now that is a very typical charge for the feds to hold you with, but it is most certainly not going to be the last charge that he faces.
HEMMER: The word from the Pentagon late yesterday is that there is no connection between these three men. Do you see it the same way, based on what we know?
TURLEY: Well, it's early -- I mean you -- it's very difficult when you've got three individuals, they have common ties in their functions at Guantanamo Bay, all who have been nailed for similar types of violations, but that doesn't mean that they're linked. I mean, what this individual is facing is not just false charges, but he also is someone who removed, according to this indictment, classified information from a secured facility to an insecure location. He may have been guilty of what's called unauthorized disclosure. Each of those can bring a 10-year sentence, and the false charges can bring a five-year sentence and a $250,000 fine.
HEMMER: Jonathan, reading your comments with our CNN producers, two things frighten you. You say what's on the CDs? What is the evidence contained on there? And also, what's the motivation? Are those the key factors that prosecutors are looking at right now?
TURLEY: I think that is. So far, they're been designated a secret. And secret is relatively low in the great scheme of things. There's confidential secret, top secret, and TSSCI, and then above that is eyes only. So secret classifications can be some fairly routine issues, like manuals, but it is still a violation of federal law to disclose it.
But motivation becomes important in any trial. Was he trying to give this, as is alleged with an Air Force translator, to a country like Syria or Egypt? Or was he trying to bring this out as a whistleblower? Or is this what we deal with as a trophy find? Sometimes you've got people who leave classified positions and they can't resist leaving without a trophy, something with a secret marking on it, and they really have no motivation, except very bad judgment.
HEMMER: Yes. Meanwhile, we're getting word from the Pentagon today already, Jonathan, that investigators have reported at Guantanamo Bay, trying to figure out what is happening down there. And clearly not the end of this story.
Nice to see you again, Jonathan.
TURLEY: Good to see you.
HEMMER: Come on back sometime. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
