PAULA ZAHN NOW
Interview With Schwarzenegger Campaign Manager; Is Recall Contagious?; Roy Horn Continues The Fight For His Life
Aired October 7, 2003 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Three hours and counting until the polls close in California. Who's got the momentum? And no matter who wins, what changes lie ahead for the Golden State?
Former CIA agents come clean on what happens when a secret agent's cover is blown.
And a practical male contraceptive may soon be a reality. Researchers say it's 100 percent effective. But will men buy it?
Good evening. Welcome. Glad to have you with us tonight.
Also ahead: The California recall has been a spectacle at time, even entertaining. But with so many trends that have swept the East from California, could the recall be contagious?
And two days to go before Kobe Bryant's preliminary hearing. We're going to bring you up to date on today's developments.
Also, a week before the first sniper suspect goes on trial, we're going to tell you why a new book on the investigation is playing a central role in the courtroom today. We'll meet the authors.
First, though, here are some of the headlines you need to know right now.
The Associated Press reports, Wesley Clark's campaign manager has quit in a dispute over the direction of the Democratic candidate's presidential bid. Donnie Fowler reportedly complained the campaign is focused too much on Washington and not on key states and the growing power of the Internet.
The Justice Department today said it will appeal a federal judge's ruling that set back its plan for prosecuting terror suspect Zacarias Moussaoui. Just last week, a judge ruled that prosecutors would not be allowed to try to convince jurors that Moussaoui was involved in the 9/11 plot. The judge also ruled out the death penalty if Moussaoui is convicted.
And a spokesman says Roy Horn knows that he's fighting for his life. Horn, of the Las Vegas act Siegfried & Roy was mauled by a white tiger on stage Friday night. Doctors say that, while Horn is responding well to treatment, at this hour, he remains in critical condition.
Well, tonight, the most talked-about state election in American history is in the hands of the voters. We're going to look at what this unprecedented election means for California and the tremors rumbling through the national political scene.
First, let's catch up on the very latest. Judy Woodruff joins us from Los Angeles tonight. She's at the Schwarzenegger's campaign rally headquarters.
Good evening, Judy.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, Paula.
I'm here at Century Plaza Hotel, the site of so much election nights before in this state. But I think it's fair to say there's never been an election night like this one. In the very end, this recall campaign has come down to two men, to Governor Gray Davis and none other than action star Arnold Schwarzenegger.
And the two candidates today, Paula, did what all candidates do on Election Day. They both headed to the polls, Arnold Schwarzenegger voting in the Pacific Palisades neighborhood, in West Los Angeles, where he lives, and Gray Davis voting near where he lives in Los Angeles.
Turnout in the state, Paula, has been, we are told, they believe it is going to be at an unprecedented level, higher even than the governor's election last November, when Gray Davis was reelected to a second term. But, of course, we won't know the final numbers until the votes are counted.
I want to bring somebody in to the conversation right now who's been instrumental in Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign.
WOODRUFF: And you're hearing a dog. It's part of the security sweep here at the hotel.
But the man with me is Mike Murphy. He's been a top senior adviser to Governor -- to gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger.
MIKE MURPHY, ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER CAMPAIGN MANAGER: That was a good Freudian slip, though. We'll take it.
WOODRUFF: Mike Murphy, in your mind, what does this campaign come down to at the end? And how are you feeling right now?
MURPHY: We feel every good. We want every vote, though, so we want people out voting. We're not at all complacent. What we hear through our organization is good, but we're taking nothing for granted. What I think the campaign is essentially about is change in Sacramento. People are tired that there's been a failure of government there. They're worried about special-interest money. They see Arnold as an outsider which the independence and leadership to go in there and clean up that mess. And that's why there's such tremendous enthusiasm for him in the state.
WOODRUFF: Mike Murphy, so much focus these last few days on these allegations in "The Los Angeles Times" about women who have come forward, saying that Arnold groped them or touched them inappropriately. What effect are you seeing that having on the campaign?
MURPHY: Absolutely none at all. I think the people heard those charges, even the hyperventilating level of "The L.A. Times" on occasion. And they totally were saturated with it in the last weekend.
But, in our polling, we actually saw a frustration factor among the electorate, who want to hear about the real problems of the state, saw our numbers go up. And I think the people are going to speak to those things and, frankly, put that all behind us today.
WOODRUFF: All right, well, we're going to find out. The polls are closing here at 8:00 California time, 11:00, Paula, Eastern time. We will know much more after that. And, of course, we'll be talking to you throughout the night -- Paula, back to you.
ZAHN: Look forward to it, Judy. Thank you, both.
This unprecedented campaign lasted only 77 days. But the battle may not be over tomorrow. The next phase could be a courtroom showdown. Supporters of the two main candidates say they're reedy for a legal fight, if there needs to be one. And with Arnold Schwarzenegger leading in the polls, Gray Davis' supporters have hinted at a new slogan, recall the recall.
For more on what's next in California and the candidates, let's go back to Los Angeles. Paul Begala is at the Davis campaign headquarters right now. Tucker Carlson is with the Schwarzenegger camp.
Good evening, gentlemen. Great to see both of you.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Paula, good to see you again.
ZAHN: So, Paul, first off, what's the buzz there at the Davis headquarters?
BEGALA: They're a little apprehensive. They're a little anxious. And they're a whole lot angry, Paula.
Something that they're now beginning to contemplate is the chance that perhaps their guy, Gray Davis, could go down. This is a man who, just 11 months, swept to a rather easy reelection in a state that Al Gore carried by 1.3 million votes against George Bush. Every single statewide officeholder here is a Democrat, and yet Gray Davis is in an awful lot of trouble. And they're pretty angry about it.
And there is talk that, perhaps, if this goes the wrong way, they'll fight fire and we'll see recall II. Hollywood loves a sequel.
ZAHN: Well, realistically, what is the likelihood of recalling the recall, Paul?
BEGALA: Oh, if you ask the folks I've talked to here, it's very close to 100 percent. That same crazy, nutty law that allowed the conservatives to mount a petition drive that created this is perfectly useful for liberals as well, Paula.
And there are people who I have talked to who have financed referenda in the past, serious, high-dollar liberals in California, who have told me they'll finance a recall of Schwarzenegger. And their argument is, should he win, there would be allegations immediately of wrongdoing and that they would use those as fodder to try to create a recall.
The other argument they make is that it seems certain that Gray Davis will get more votes than anybody else on the ballot, but he's the only one who has to get to 50 percent in order to win. They say that that's unfair.
ZAHN: Let's go back to your compatriot there, Tucker Carlson.
Tucker, you heard what the Davis camp is communicating at this hour, if Schwarzenegger wins, that it will be all but certain that he faces some sort of recall the recall effort. What is the strategy on the Schwarzenegger campaign's part?
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": Hey, Paula.
Well, it's so crowded here that I didn't quite catch your question, but I can offer a few observations about what's happening. First of all, it already looks like not so much the campaign of someone attempting to be governor, but an event given by a governor. The security is immense, gubernatorial, you might call it, magnetometers, police dogs sniffing bags for bombs. It really has the feeling not of an insurgency, but of something that's already happened, that he's already de facto governor.
People here are celebrating. There are early indications that it is going to be a blowout. At least, that's what the Schwarzenegger people are saying. And if I was the sort of person who bet on things like this -- and I am -- I would bet the first act of the Arnold Schwarzenegger governor's office would be to get a movement going to change the California state constitution and take recalls out of it, because they are, I think, expecting an effort to get him recalled.
ZAHN: Well, Tucker, what you missed -- and I understand how loud it is in that room -- was your colleague Paul Begala saying the Davis camp would very seriously consider a recall-the-recall effort if Schwarzenegger wins.
How much talk is there -- you just talked about the Schwarzenegger camp wanting to change the constitution if he does win. But short of that, what is it that they could potentially face here?
CARLSON: Well, again, I missed some of that, but it does seem -- and let me just clarify. I haven't heard anybody from the Schwarzenegger campaign say that the first act will be to change the California state constitution.
But the sense is -- and there have been early indications that Democrats -- and maybe not just Democrats -- but will attempt further recalls in the very near future. I mean, if there's a lesson to this, it is that it's actually pretty easy to remove a sitting California governor, as long as he's as deeply unpopular as Gray Davis was.
I have to say, the fact that the Schwarzenegger campaign has spent the last week talking about, I don't know, Nazis and sexual harassment, and they're still likely to win tells you everything you need to know about how unpopular Gray Davis is as a governor.
ZAHN: Well, we all will be checking in with the two of you throughout the night. Paul Begala, Tucker Carlson, thank you for your insights.
So, is what is going on in California contagious?
Joining me now to talk about the recall's national effect is regular contributor Joe Klein, a columnist for "TIME" magazine.
Always good to see you, Joe.
JOE KLEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be here, Paula.
ZAHN: Before you talk about a potential national trend here, will you analyze a number the Field Poll is reporting tonight, that the voter turnout is on par with what they have seen for record- breaking years, even in a presidential election, 30 percent more than the 2002 election, when Gray Davis ran for governor.
KLEIN: That's not at all surprising.
This has been a unique circumstance. It's been kind of a gimmick. And you have a celebrity running. And so there are a lot more people interested than normally are. And interesting things happen when people are interested. You get strange results. Political ads don't count for as much. So, this is -- it's been good for democracy in one respect, at least.
ZAHN: We heard Mr. Schwarzenegger's campaign manager just tell Judy Woodruff that the so-called groping allegations have had no impact -- quote -- "at all" on Mr. Schwarzenegger's campaign. Do you buy that?
KLEIN: I don't know. We have to wait and see what the results are.
But he said that "The L.A. Times" had been hyperbolic about it.
ZAHN: Hyperventilating, I believe was the word he used. KLEIN: Hyperventilating. And then Tucker just said that it was sexual harassment. No, this is sexual assault. This is many, many cases of sexual assault that the candidate himself has admitted.
ZAHN: Not all of them, though. You don't know what's true and what isn't.
KLEIN: He's said that he's admitted that, in some cases, it happened.
ZAHN: Yes, in some cases.
KLEIN: Which meant that he put his hands on women who didn't want them there.
And so we have seen the bar lowered again. In the '90s, we found out that the American people would vote for a candidate who engaged in serial consensual adultery, Bill Clinton. If Arnold Schwarzenegger is the next governor of California, it means that the public will vote for a man who has admitted, in some respects, to being a sexual assaulter.
ZAHN: All right, so what you're saying, if we wake up tomorrow and we find out -- we hope people are watching at 11:00 tonight when CNN is covering the results -- but if we wake up and we find out that Mr. Schwarzenegger ends up being governor, then what you're saying, then, is that a simple apology gives you a pass?
KLEIN: Well, apparently it does in California.
But, Paula, the most important thing that's happening here, which we haven't talked about -- and the reason why Schwarzenegger might get in, despite this remarkable history -- is that people are really angry, at least they seem to be. And the big question nationally is whether the anger in California is the beginning of a trend or whether it reflects a trend in the rest of the country.
ZAHN: What do you think?
KLEIN: Well, I think that many other states have been facing deficits. Most other states have had to cut back on basic services, like police and fire. Most other states have had to raise taxes. And you have that on the local level, plus the growing anger about Iraq and the federal budget deficit on the national level. And this may be the dominant theme of the coming year in politics.
What we're seeing in the Democratic primary race is an angry candidate, Howard Dean, moving to the front of the pack. Now, I spoke to someone in the White House last week who said, we have never elected an angry president. Well, we've never elected a celebrity who admitted to a history of sexual assault either. These are strange times.
ZAHN: And we still don't know if he's going to get elected or not.
KLEIN: No, we don't.
KLEIN: But the fact that we would even get to this point and be this serious about his potential is rather remarkable.
ZAHN: Joe Klein, thanks for dropping by. Appreciate it.
Still to come, much more to bring you on the recall tonight. There is other news as well.
A hearing in NBA star Kobe Bryant's sexual assault case will take place Thursday, as scheduled, unless it doesn't. We'll tell you what that means. We're going to get you up to speed on all the legal maneuvers going on.
And why the buzz about a new birth control method? Well, you're looking at a clue. It's because it's for men. Will they go for it?
Also: inside the sniper investigation with two reporters who now find themselves part of the story just a week before the first suspect goes on trial.
ZAHN: On Thursday, there is a preliminary hearing scheduled in the sexual assault case against Kobe Bryant. Between now and then, the defense has a big decision to make.
I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
And it's always good to see you.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.
ZAHN: So what is it the defense needs to decide between now and Thursday?
TOOBIN: They have to decide whether they want to go forward with this hearing or waive it and go straight to the trial.
Remember, the defense -- the government has a very small burden here, just probable cause. The government always wins preliminary hearings. The defense has to decide whether they want to go through with this process, exposing the government's evidence to the world, or simply waive the hearing and go straight to trial.
ZAHN: So help us understand the strategy, then, the defense uses now over the next 48 hours.
TOOBIN: Well, usually, the defense likes a preliminary hearing, because it's a free shot at learning something about the government's case. And you want to cross-examine witnesses, maybe, just get a sense of what the government's case is. And you don't really work about pretrial publicity in the ordinary case.
Here, we know that the evidence is going to be the tape of the alleged victim describing her injuries, very dramatic, very incriminating of Kobe Bryant. Why not, the defense may be thinking, avoid that altogether -- they have already seen the tape -- and go straight to the trial?
ZAHN: This is the tape of her responding to questions at a rape crisis center.
TOOBIN: From government officials, saying, what happened, basically describing the attack in her own words.
ZAHN: Now, what are the kinds of decisions the judge has to make in the days to come?
TOOBIN: Basically, the only one main decision is, is there probable cause to proceed? That's the ultimate decision that the judge has to make.
But there's an important decision along the way, which is, the judge has suggested that he may close certain portions of this preliminary hearing even to the press. We know there is going to be no cameras in the courtroom. But he has said that some of this evidence may be so damaging to Bryant's right to a fair trial, he may keep the press and public out of it altogether, in an effort to protect the jury pool.
ZAHN: How long will that take to leak out, though, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: I don't know. I'm sort of amazed about this case, that there has not been more leaks than there have been.
We still don't know what the evidence is in this case, a lot of rumors. But what were her injuries? What does she claim happened in that room? Under what circumstances did she go to the room in the first place? I've heard a million rumors, and I've read some stuff in the press, but nothing that seems to me really trustworthy. We'll know more and we'll know facts on Thursday.
ZAHN: Let's talk about the piece that's getting the most attention right now. And that was a huge story in "Newsweek," a lot of things alleged. And you can tell us whether it's relevant or not, that Kobe Bryant's marriage was on the rocks months before this alleged rape took place. Does that mean anything to a potential jury pool?
TOOBIN: Boy, I think -- this is, again, the difference between the real world and the world of a courtroom. In the world of a courtroom, that's marginally relevant. The fact that he's having marital troubles, I think most judges would say, that doesn't make you more or less likely to be a rapist.
But to ordinary people, who ultimately become jurors, it could be kind of incriminating, because it suggests that he is having problems at home. He may be looking for companionship now. Rape is not companionship, but it's an incriminating fact in the real world. And, certainly, Bryant's forces would rather it's not out there in public.
ZAHN: So, as this all comes together on Thursday, it may be that you come out of this hearing and you have no idea what any of the evidence is?
TOOBIN: Hard to imagine that he could cut it all off from public access. But it could be that the defense says: We don't want this hearing.
So then we will really will know nothing more than we know today.
ZAHN: So, if they waive the terrorist to this hearing, then what are we talking about, the start of a trial three, four months down the road?
TOOBIN: I've heard varying estimates about how long it takes to get a complicated case, high-profile case to trial in Colorado. You may have a change of venue hearing. You're going to have a lots of motions before a trial.
I think three or four months is a minimum, six to nine months possibly as well, which would mean after the end of the basketball season.
ZAHN: I think the next time we'll be talking with you, you will be in Colorado covering this all.
TOOBIN: In Eagle, Colorado, tomorrow evening.
ZAHN: Get one of those top-10 seats for us, Jeffrey.
TOOBIN: That's right.
The California recall may seem like just a punchline for late- night comedians, but it could have a serious impact nationwide. We're going to look at what the recall means for the rest of the country.
And the fallout over the CIA leak. How much damage has been done to the agency? We'll look at the debate.
ZAHN: Welcome back.
By the end of the night, the state of California might have a new governor, but will the nation have a new political movement because of it?
Senior analyst Jeff Greenfield reports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): We're not going to take it. No, we ain't going to take it.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Of course it's drawn national, even worldwide attention. The nation's biggest state ready to throw out a governor in midterm and quite possibly replace him with a world-famous movie star?
The trickier question is, will the fallout from this state have any real impact on the other 49? Some of the speculation, would a Governor Schwarzenegger help President Bush carry California next year, seems a bit overwrought. Governors, not counting Jeb Bush in Florida last time, rarely have much influence on a presidential election.
Longtime Democratic consultant Bill Carrick.
BILL CARRICK, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: George Bush is going to do worse in California than he does nationally. If it's a competitive election, he's going to lose California.
GREENFIELD: But California has often led the nation in turning political frustration and anger into action. The tax revolt began here 25 years ago with Proposition 13 that limited property taxes. The anger over rising crime triggered the ouster of three state Supreme Court justices by the voters in 1986 and the "three strikes and you're out" vote in 1994.
And in 1990, California imposed term limits on all its state officials. So, could this recall effort bear fruit in any of the other 17 states with recall laws? In Nevada right now, a group of conservatives are trying to oust Republican Governor Kenny Guinn, who persuaded the state's Supreme Court to allow a simple legislative majority to pass an $800 million tax increase.
But unlike Gray Davis in California, Guinn was reelected last November in a 2-1 landslide. And Democratic leaders there have called the efforts stupid. What we may see nationally, though, is the kind of governmental gridlock that helped lead to this recall, an ever more polarized political debate, where compromise and consensus are dirty words.
CARRICK: You can't get people around the table to say, OK, here's the deal. Nobody wants to cut a deal. Everybody wants to continue being pure. And until that stops, you're never going to get it fixed.
GREENFIELD: More and more, that sounds like a description not just of California, but of the national political process, where permanent campaign means that there is less and less time and less and less of an appetite for the hard business of governing.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Los Angeles.
ZAHN: President Bush insists he wants to know who leaked a CIA objective's name and why. We're going to look at what kind of headache this is causing the CIA.
And in the California recall race, they are still voting, the finish line in sight. Polls close just about 2 1/2 hours from now.
ZAHN: And we're back. Time now for us to tell you what you need to know at this moment on the California recall race. Wolf Blitzer is standing by in Los Angeles with more on that. Hi, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Paula. Looks like a huge turnout of Californians voting to decide whether or not to recall the incumbent governor, Gray Davis, and then question 2, who should succeed him. Arnold Schwarzenegger, certainly, going into this day, the polls showing that he had a decisive majority, despite some of the late-minute accusations that he was involved in sexually groping an assortment of women. There's a lot of frustration here among Californians, not only Republicans but Democrats and independents, as far as Gray Davis is concerned.
Arnold Schwarzenegger went and voted with Maria Shriver, his wife. They held hands as they walked into the polling booth. They were surrounded, as you can see, by reporters, the actor-turned- politician insisting that he was hoping God would help him and get elected California's next governor.
Gray Davis made a similar statement as he walked to a polling booth together with his wife, and later he actually went to mass -- he's a Catholic -- and decided that he was going to pray for some help, as well.
All in all, it should be pretty soon we probably will be getting some results. We'll have some exit poll results, Paula, beginning at 11:00 PM Eastern, 8:00 PM Pacific. That's when the polls close here in California. We're not going to reveal those exit polls until everyone has a chance to vote -- Paula.
ZAHN: We'll stay with you through the night. Wolf Blitzer, thanks so much.
The deadline has passed for White House staffers to turn over any documents relevant to the CIA leak investigation. For more on that, let's go straight to the White House. That's where we find our senior White House correspondent, John King, standing by tonight. Good evening, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Paula. We are told by senior administration officials that all but a modest few White House officials have met that deadline to turn over any documents they might have covered by a Justice Department request. Now, the actual Justice Department deadline is two weeks from now, but Alberto Gonzalez, the president's White House counsel, wanted those documents turned over to him tonight so that he can review them before they go to investigators. Again, we are told that all but a few White House staffers have met that deadline. Those who have not are staffers who are traveling or who have other extenuating circumstances.
One other development of note tonight. We also are told by government sources that the FBI has begun to contact some White House officials to schedule interviews with them as part of the investigation.
Here at the White House today, the press secretary, Scott McClellan, specifically identified three senior aides that he said he went to them and asked them specifically, because of media speculation, if they had any role at all in the leaks. Those three are key aides here at the White House. They include Karl Rove, the president's top political adviser, Lewis Libby, who is the vice president's chief of staff, and Elliott Abrams. He's a key aide on Middle East policy on the National Security Council. Scott McClellan said all three assured him they had no role in this at all.
And you see Mr. Bush here at a cabinet meeting earlier in the day. The president said nobody wants to know who did this more than him, but the president was asked if he was confident the leaker would eventually be found and brought to justice. Mr. Bush was a bit skeptical.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a town of -- that -- where a lot of people leak. And I've constantly expressed my displeasure with leaks, particularly leaks of classified information. And I want to know. I want to know the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The president's attorney will now review those documents before turning them over to the Justice Department. No one expects the White House to invoke executive privilege, Paula, but they will not rule it out. That would be withholding some information from the Justice Department, if the White House determines it is classified information, too sensitive to give to the investigators -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much for the update, John. Appreciate it.
ZAHN: Now to get an inside look at how this may be playing at the CIA, we turn now to two former CIA employees who trained with Ambassador Wilson's wife, the operative whose name was leaked. From Detroit tonight, former undercover case officer Jim Marcinkowski. From Philadelphia tonight, former analyst Brent Cavan. Welcome to both of you. Glad to see both of you.
BRENT CAVAN, FORMER CIA ANALYST: Thank you.
JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Hi, Paula.
CAVAN: Good evening.
ZAHN: Mr. Cavan, I'm going to start with you, and what I'd love for you to do is review alongside us something that President Bush had to say just months after the terrorist attacks. He said this in December of 2001. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: There is no substitute for good intelligence officers, people on the ground. These are the people who find the targets, follow our enemies and helped us disrupt their evil plans.
ZAHN: So Mr. Cavan, how ironic do you find the president's words, particularly now, in light of the fact that this leak has been attributed to senior White House officials?
CAVAN: Well, I don't know that he regrets it or it's ironic. I think, you know, he meant everything he said. I do think, though, that somebody in the White House has caused the president a severe problem. Naming a, you know, former colleague of ours as a CIA operative is a serious matter. All the administration staff that have access to classified information have, you know, sworn to keep the same secrecy and have signed the same oaths of allegiance that both Jim and I did. And it's really egregious that the -- you know, that somebody in the administration has put this information out in the public.
ZAHN: Mr. Marcinkowski, help us understand what this means to an agent in the field, particularly a covert one. Do they now view their government as a threat?
MARCINKOWSKI: Certainly, the act itself has been an unprecedented act. This is not the leak, as usual from Washington, of classified information. And that should not be condoned. However, this is the leak of an identification of an intelligence agent of the United States. So the fact that it's unprecedented sends a ripple effect throughout the intelligence community and drastically affects national security throughout -- throughout the world, and the United States in particular.
As an operations officer on scene in a country, the effects of this are that anyone who knows you or did know you now will look at your mosaic. They will look at the people you've come in contact with. They will suspect those people, be they official contacts or innocent contacts. They will suspect those persons of being intelligence agents. They could be subject to interrogation, imprisonment and even death, depending on the regime that you may be operating under.
There's also ramifications for CIA morale. I'm not naive enough to say this is having a huge impact, but certainly, it contributes to a decline in morale when you know that your own government can identify you as a clandestine operator. Certainly, there's going to be a reluctance on the part of foreign nationals that may want to help the United States in these trying times. They're going to be reluctant to serve and help us with information, based on the fact that their identification may be revealed by the government.
Obviously, in this particular case, there's further problems with looking at the ambassador's wife. Obviously, now all intelligence services across the world will be looking at ambassadors' wives and suspecting them. They may subject them now to surveillance and added security measures.
The continued revelations by Bob Novak of purported front companies also subjects the traveling businessman to added...
ZAHN: All right...
MARCINKOWSKI: ... scrutiny by foreign governments.
ZAHN: Mr. Cavan, just a final thought on how much more dangerous this makes the work of CIA agents in the field.
CAVAN: Well, I mean, it certainly has an impact on their potential safety. I mean, if you think in terms of another incident, if we go down the slippery slope of this precedent, I'm concerned that somebody may be overseas for a period of months and find out that, you know, past activity in the States, where we all have the right to free speech, could have a, you know, huge impact on their immediate safety. What if this happens again and somebody's already posted overseas?
ZAHN: Well, you certainly both come at this with a lot of experience. We appreciate your helping us better understand how this might impact the folks that remain in the field you both were active in. Jim Marcinkowski, thank you. Brent Cavan, you, as well.
MARCINKOWSKI: You're welcome.
CAVAN: Thank you.
ZAHN: Appreciate both of your perspectives.
On to the new contraceptive for men. It has a perfect record in a major trial. We're going to look at how it works. And the really big question, though, is will men actually use it?
And tomorrow, what's next for Kobe Bryant, as he gets ready for his preliminary hearing?
ZAHN: Some experts are calling it the biggest advance in birth control since the launch of the pill. Researchers in Australia say they have developed a male contraceptive that was 100 percent effective during a 12-month trial period and had very few site effects, as well. So in plain English tonight, how does it work?
I'm joined now from Los Angeles by Dr. Drew Pinsky, a frequent contributor and medical director for the Department of Chemical Dependency Services at Las Encinas Hospital in Pasadena, California. I don't think we could have packed any more words into that title tonight. Dr. Drew, always good to see you.
DR. DREW PINSKY, LAS ENCINAS HOSPITAL: Good to see you, Paula. Thank you.
ZAHN: So can you just hear that chorus of women out there tonight yelling, Hallelujah, it's about time? PINSKY: It really is about time, isn't it, Paula. Reading the study caused me to reflect a little bit on the amazing burden we put on women to control and to be responsible for reproduction. And finally, we have now something that's going to create a flexible option for men. I will tell you someone -- I worked with the Trojan Company for some time, trying to encourage men to practice safe sex and use appropriate contraceptive techniques that they do have some control over, and it is no easy task, I assure you.
ZAHN: So let's talk about why this would be any different.
PINSKY: Well, I'll tell you one thing. This one has a diabolical side effect in that it actually increases libido, increases sex drive. I suspect...
ZAHN: Wow! Now, there's the allure!
PINSKY: Listen, I suspect if some of this -- if any of the side effects that we've asked women to take on, like weight gain and irritability and mood problems were present in these pills, you wouldn't -- or these hormones, you wouldn't find men taking this.
But this study shows that -- for the first time, that you will not get pregnant when a man is given progesterone and testosterone simultaneously. And the ultimate sort of goal of this combination is that one day we'll have something that men could maybe take in a shot every three or four months. Now, we don't yet know -- really know the long-term effects of this, whether or not it could affect risks of prostate cancer or vascular disease. Or maybe if the testosterone levels are slightly suppressed relative to what they would normally be...
PINSKY: ... there may be bone loss, osteoporosis. But short- term and as an option, it really looks good.
ZAHN: Let's come back to this injection site because I know we have some graphics to help people understand how this works. And you can walk us through it.
PINSKY: All right.
ZAHN: So you take a shot. How often do you have to do this?
PINSKY: Every three or four months. Actually, the way this study was done, is they gave them a progesterone shot, which suppressed -- as you see, the hormone gets into the system and suppresses hormones released from the brain, from the pituitary gland, that activate the testes, activate the sperm production. And when those hormones are shut down by the progesterone, you -- testosterone level drops, as well as your sperm production. So they replaced the testosterone with little pellets that they implanted under the skin, but one day they hope to be able to use perhaps shots or pills to replace the testosterone. And really, the idea would be a shot that had both the progesterone and the testosterone in it a man could take every four months, and that would be it. But the -- think how hard it is to get a man to go in to see the doctor, Paula.
ZAHN: Well, sure.
PINSKY: I know myself, I'm guilty of this. But to go every four months and get a shot -- I -- I hope we -- perhaps we need to raise a new generation of men that are willing to take some of this responsibility...
ZAHN: Oh, I think you're just going to have to mandate it here.
PINSKY: I agree with you. No, I agree!
ZAHN: I know birth control is a very personal thing, and people have very religious convictions, in some cases, would prevent them from going down this road.
ZAHN: Finally, does there seem to be any down side to manipulating the production of sperm?
PINSKY: You ask a great question. The down side is not the sperm issue so much as placing a system under the influence of hormones that have not been studied (UNINTELLIGIBLE) long-term influence. Now, mind you, we asked women to take on this same burden early in the days of the contraceptive pill, and I believe that the risks we put women under were probably greater than what we're going to ask men to take because these things look quite safe.
As I mentioned earlier, the things we are worried about is if you don't replace the testosterone levels to normal, if you undershoot, you might get a bone loss, such as osteoporosis. If you overshoot, you may put people at risk of prostate cancer or vascular disease -- heart attack, stroke, that kind of thing. But we don't know. We don't think so. And certainly, as a short-term option, as a flexible option for people that are looking for something, if a woman can't use a contraceptive, this is certainly going to be an excellent alternative.
ZAHN: Dr. Drew Pinsky, always good to see you.
PINSKY: My pleasure. Thank you.
ZAHN: Thank you for dropping by.
A week before the first trial in the sniper case, we turn to two journalists who have been exploring the minds of the suspects in a controversial new book on the case that gripped the nation. And the California recall race will be over in a couple more hours. Will this man be smiling then?
ZAHN: A judge has refused to dismiss charges against alleged Washington-area sniper John Allen Muhammad, despite his lawyer's complaints that investigators in the case violated a gag order. The defense says sniper task force members gave information was given to these two "Washington Post" reporters, Sari Horwitz and Michael Ruane. They have written a book called "Sniper: Inside the Hunt for the Killers Who Terrorized a Nation." They both join us tonight.
Welcome. Appreciate your time tonight.
MICHAEL RUANE, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Hello.
SARI HORWITZ, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: Sari, I'd love to start with you. You were the first to report on Lee Malvo's confession. What did police learn from that?
HORWITZ: They learned a lot. You know, this was one of the largest manhunts, criminal investigations on U.S. soil, and at the end of it, Lee Malvo gave a six-and-a-half-hour confession. He talked with the police. He talked with the FBI. He told them that this whole sniper spree was a mission, a battle, with a strategy. He talked about where they were during this time. He talked about coming back to the scenes and talking to police. It enabled the police to really get inside his head, and we were surprised, with all that's been written about Malvo and Muhammad, at how many new details came out.
ZAHN: Mike, the book also details how much valuable time was wasted by police in searching for the white van instead of Malvo and Muhammad's blue Chevy Caprice. Why did that happen?
RUANE: Yes. Paula, in the beginning, the police were faced with a series of horrific crimes and practically no evidence at all. The one piece of evidence that they had was a good witness report from a man who had -- who said he had seen a white box truck speeding away from one of the crime scenes. In the absence of everything else, this became a sort of iceberg on an empty sea, this report of the white truck. And it grew with the momentum of this massive investigation until it was sort of unstoppable and sort of wiped all -- everything else off the screens.
ZAHN: We now, of course, have the hindsight of looking at all these clues, Sari. Let's talk a little bit about the Tarot card and some of the information in code form left for police for them to contact the snipers. What went wrong there?
HORWITZ: Well, Paula, that is a fascinating aspect of this case because that Tarot card, which was left at the scene of the shooting of Iran Brown (ph) one year ago today, had a message, and it was leaked to the press -- "The Washington Post" and WSA, Channel 9 here. And Chief Moose was very angry that this was leaked, but we all got that message wrong. We said the card said, "I am God." In fact, we found that it said, "code, call me God." So even after it was released and the police chief got angry, that code was still viable between the suspects and the police.
The problem is that the police didn't tell the call-takers what the code was. So when Malvo and Muhammad tried desperately to get through and negotiate with police, they couldn't get through. The call-takers hung up on them, transferred them, and that frustrated them to no end, and they left letter saying the police are incompetent.
ZAHN: So Mike, as we analyze these calls now, why didn't those folks that either picked up the phone and heard about these calls, pass this information along to senior officials?
RUANE: Well, they did, Paula, in most cases. The problem, we believe, was that they were not equipped or instructed, really, as to what to do if they got such a call. The information in the investigation we think was quite centralized and not passed out to the people kind of in the front lines, if you will, who were, you know, liable and likely to get phone calls from the suspects.
ZAHN: Well, I'll tell you, your observations are absolutely chilling and fascinating. Sari Horwitz, Michael Ruane, congratulations on your book, "Sniper: Inside the Hunt for the Killers Who Terrorized the Nation." We learned a lot tonight.
Well, the voting is just a couple of hours from being over. What will the nation's comedians do without the California recall to kick around anymore? We'll show you.
ZAHN: It's down to the wire in California. We want to check in with our correspondents in Los Angeles for the very latest on the recall election. Senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is with the Davis camp, and national correspondent Kelly Wallace is with the Schwarzenegger supporters.
Good evening to both of you. Kelly, why don't you start us off here.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula, lots of smiles here. Mike Murphy, a top adviser to Arnold Schwarzenegger, saying the campaign is very upbeat. They are not taking anything for granted, but he says there's a building sense of excitement, and he said their field polling so far is very good. Aides are also saying if their field polling is correct, then the allegations of sexual misconduct and other questions about Schwarzenegger's character will not have hurt him at the polls and might have cost Governor Gray Davis instead.
We saw Schwarzenegger and his wife, Maria Shriver, voting earlier today. We are expecting them at this hotel sometime night. No more about next steps, though, until the polls close -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thanks so much, Kelly. Next up, Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you know, Paula, every election night headquarters has its own pulse, and the pulse here is very down. Take everything Kelly just said and turn it around, and you have what's going on in Davis headquarters. We have sources both inside and very close to the campaign who have said all day long, This is not looking good, this is looking bad. We even now have people wandering around here talking about what went wrong, already starting the second-guessing. A little bit of hope left, though, and the most optimistic assessment we got was it's uphill. But just about now, unions, union members who are, of course, some of Gray Davis's strongest supporters, are getting off work. They're headed to the polls. A big push from them is what they're hoping for, but it may be one big push way too late -- Paula.
ZAHN: All right, Candy and Kelly, thank you for bringing us up to date, as the voters out there only have just about two more hours to get their votes in. Appreciate it.
ZAHN: Now, when the voting ends in California a couple of hours from now, viewers and voters can finally say "Hasta la vista, baby" to the recall. I didn't write that, along with all the silly puns, double entendres and vacuous movie lines that went with it. But for some, giving up the recall will be like withdrawing from a drug. Jeanne Moos bids a fond farewell to the recall.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Say it ain't over, Arnold. We'll be blue without Gray in the fray, left groping for puns. Comedians, in particular, took the cue from the recall.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Today Arnold revealed his health care plan. Every woman gets a free breast exam. Basically, that's what it is.
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": Do you know what happened while you folks were applauding? You know what just happened? Five more women accused Arnold of groping. Two more gropes and he's an honorary priest.
MOOS: Comedians didn't even have to bother making jokes. They just had to come out of actual news clips with a smirk. The humor was built in.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CANDIDATE FOR CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR: There's a lot of this stuff going on and there's not...
TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: So you deny all those stories about grabbing.
SCHWARZENEGGER: No, not all. But I'm just saying this is not -- this is not me.
MOOS: But it's not just comedians. Pity the cable news networks. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly, the wackiest election...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The quirky, mesmerizing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eleven wild weeks in California...
MOOS: And what's a headline writer to do? They had just about run out of movie puns when the allegations of groping came to the rescue. Our favorite, "Arnie groped by wife." The "governator" became the "gropanator." "The New York Post" showed Gray Davis kissing babies and Arnold kissing the baby's mom. "Recall Davis," "Neuter Arnold" opined a cartoonist from Creators Syndicate.
Alas, we'll all have to go back to scarier subjects.
LETTERMAN: Here's the newest videotape from Usama bin Laden. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve years ago on the set of "Terminator II," I was groped by Arnold Schwarzenegger. You're a pig, Arnold.
MOOS: Now, there's a guy who deserves to be recalled. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
ZAHN: And wanted to quickly show you a live shot out of Sacramento, where people are still gathering to vote at this hour. The California secretary of state's office telling us that when the voting ends just about two hours from now, some 10 million people will have voted. That is 2.3 million more than the last gubernatorial election and the highest number of voters for any governor's race in the state's history. That's about 65 percent of registered voters.
Now, you heard a little bit of what Kelly Wallace had to say from Schwarzenegger headquarters and Candy Crowley from Davis headquarters, some predicting the race is tightening up, although Candy telling us she's hearing both perspectives from the Gray Davis camp, people second-guessing what went wrong, by the same token, a sliver of hope that things could change in the last couple of hours of voting.
The Schwarzenegger camp, for its part, telling us at the top of the hour that these latest allegations coming from over a dozen women, in the campaign manager's own words, had no effect at all on this campaign. I guess this time tomorrow, we will have a better understanding if that statement was true.
We'll have the very latest for you throughout the night here on CNN. Please stay tuned. Wolf Blitzer on live from 11:00 PM to 2:00 AM. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. Really appreciate your dropping by. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next. Have a good night.
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