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American Morning

Bryant in Court

Aired October 10, 2003 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn now to Colorado and the startling revelations in the sexual assault case against NBA superstar Kobe Bryant.
In court yesterday, as the prosecution made its case for bringing Bryant to trial, a sheriff's detective told the accuser's story.

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): The 19- year-old woman, who has accused Kobe Bryant of sexually assaulting her, says the basketball player put his hands around her neck and forced himself upon her.

This was just a small portion of the graphic testimony at a preliminary hearing, where the prosecution revealed evidence publicly for the first time. According to Eagle County sheriff's Detective Doug Winters, who interviewed the accuser, Bryant checked into a hotel in Edwards, Colorado, and asked the 19-year-old hotel employee for a tour. The woman acknowledged to the detective she flirted with Bryant and did consent to kissing him on the mouth and neck, but that, she said, is where the consent stopped.

The detective testified -- quote -- "He began to grope her, touching her breasts and her buttocks area." He continued by saying, she told him Bryant restrained her by the neck, turned her around, bent her over a chair and had sexual intercourse.

Pictures were shown of injuries to her jaw and her private area. Defense attorney Pamela Mackey cross-examined the detective, were there red marks, bruises, scratches or finger marks on the alleged victim's neck? The detective said no, but he did tell prosecutors that blood from the woman was found on Kobe Bryant's T-shirt.

The judge will decide from the preliminary hearing if there is probable cause to bring this case to a trial, but the day came to a premature end after Kobe Bryant's attorney asked the detective if her injuries were -- quote -- "Consistent with someone who's had sex with three different guys in three days." The prosecution, already angry because the defense attorney said the accuser's name in the court six times, objected, and the hearing was called off for the day.

(on camera): The judge said it will be continued next Wednesday. So, Kobe Bryant, who sat in the courtroom for most of the day with a serious expression, left in a motorcade, knowing that he'll have to return next week.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Eagle, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: By allowing the preliminary hearing to go forward, has Kobe Bryant's defense team allowed the prosecution to get the upper hand in this case?

Joining us from Eagle, Colorado, is CNN's legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Hey, Jeffery. Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Soledad, hi.

O'BRIEN: Well, boy, were predictions way off on this. Many people thought that the entire hearing would be waived, and they would just eventually go straight to trial because they would want to avoid the airing of the dirty laundry, so to speak, or the salacious details.

The defense was very aggressive, as we've just heard in Gary Tuchman's piece right there. Give me a sense of the strategy and how you think it played out in the courtroom.

TOOBIN: Well, you know, Soledad, I've spent a lot of time in courtrooms, and I don't know if I have seen a more dramatic day than I saw yesterday. There were so many revelations and powerful interchanges between the lawyers and the witnesses that there's a lot to sort out.

The bottom line, I do think the defense made a mistake by going forward. There was a lot of incriminating evidence that came out. The images, even though it was only second-hand through the detectives, were vivid. The story was believable on the part of the woman.

On the defense side, there were -- they did score some points, the most important of which Pamela Mackey, the attorney, brought out repeatedly in her cross-examination is: Where were the injuries? If she was held by the neck for all that time, why was her neck unbruised? And if she was, in fact, raped in this way, why weren't there more injuries to her genital area than there were?

Those points were good points to raise, but I thought they could have waited for the trial. I predicted no hearing. I thought they would have been better off without one.

O'BRIEN: A couple of things that we heard from Pamela Mackey. First, she said, and we saw it in Gary's piece, she asked a question about would those injuries be consistent with a woman having sex with three different guys in three days, sort of coming out of nowhere, which, of course, goes against any kind of law that bars the sexual history of the alleged victim in the case being heard; in addition to that, names the alleged victim's name six times -- not once, not twice, six times, to the point at which the judge said maybe I should get a big muzzle for you.

What do you think her strategy was there, and how unusual was this?

TOOBIN: Well, Soledad, I mean, when she asked that question in the courtroom about the three men in three days, there was like a "whoosh" in the room. It was like, whoa, someone had just dropped a nuclear bomb in court.

I thought it was borderline unethical what she did, because that was maybe in compliance with the rape shield law, but it was certainly on the knife's edge. And the ethical thing to do would have been to raise that privately with the judge and say, can I ask this question, instead of just lobbing this stink bomb in the middle of the courtroom, which is why the judge immediately took everyone out of court. And basically that was the last thing we heard. That's what shut down the hearing.

As for naming the victim six times, again, it was really shocking, and Pamela Mackey kept saying, gosh, I keep making this mistake. I really apologize. You know, once, twice, maybe three times is a legitimate mistake. Six times, you really start to think that it was an act of intimidation towards this...

O'BRIEN: Well, an act of intimation or -- and we have very little time for this, Jeffrey, but I think it's important. Do you think that she's trying to convince the judge that, oops, I might slip later on, it might be smart to close this hearing and close this case to the public?

TOOBIN: Well, I think that is certainly possible. I don't think you can close the trial. There's almost no way under the Constitution you can close a trial. But certainly, one of the issues outstanding is whether this hearing next Wednesday, the continuation of the hearing, will be in public. We simply don't know. Developments are happening in this case so fast and so unpredictably, I hesitate to make yet another incorrect prediction.

O'BRIEN: All right, well, Jeffrey, a lot of people made that prediction yesterday. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

TOOBIN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired October 10, 2003 - 07:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn now to Colorado and the startling revelations in the sexual assault case against NBA superstar Kobe Bryant.
In court yesterday, as the prosecution made its case for bringing Bryant to trial, a sheriff's detective told the accuser's story.

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): The 19- year-old woman, who has accused Kobe Bryant of sexually assaulting her, says the basketball player put his hands around her neck and forced himself upon her.

This was just a small portion of the graphic testimony at a preliminary hearing, where the prosecution revealed evidence publicly for the first time. According to Eagle County sheriff's Detective Doug Winters, who interviewed the accuser, Bryant checked into a hotel in Edwards, Colorado, and asked the 19-year-old hotel employee for a tour. The woman acknowledged to the detective she flirted with Bryant and did consent to kissing him on the mouth and neck, but that, she said, is where the consent stopped.

The detective testified -- quote -- "He began to grope her, touching her breasts and her buttocks area." He continued by saying, she told him Bryant restrained her by the neck, turned her around, bent her over a chair and had sexual intercourse.

Pictures were shown of injuries to her jaw and her private area. Defense attorney Pamela Mackey cross-examined the detective, were there red marks, bruises, scratches or finger marks on the alleged victim's neck? The detective said no, but he did tell prosecutors that blood from the woman was found on Kobe Bryant's T-shirt.

The judge will decide from the preliminary hearing if there is probable cause to bring this case to a trial, but the day came to a premature end after Kobe Bryant's attorney asked the detective if her injuries were -- quote -- "Consistent with someone who's had sex with three different guys in three days." The prosecution, already angry because the defense attorney said the accuser's name in the court six times, objected, and the hearing was called off for the day.

(on camera): The judge said it will be continued next Wednesday. So, Kobe Bryant, who sat in the courtroom for most of the day with a serious expression, left in a motorcade, knowing that he'll have to return next week.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Eagle, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: By allowing the preliminary hearing to go forward, has Kobe Bryant's defense team allowed the prosecution to get the upper hand in this case?

Joining us from Eagle, Colorado, is CNN's legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Hey, Jeffery. Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Soledad, hi.

O'BRIEN: Well, boy, were predictions way off on this. Many people thought that the entire hearing would be waived, and they would just eventually go straight to trial because they would want to avoid the airing of the dirty laundry, so to speak, or the salacious details.

The defense was very aggressive, as we've just heard in Gary Tuchman's piece right there. Give me a sense of the strategy and how you think it played out in the courtroom.

TOOBIN: Well, you know, Soledad, I've spent a lot of time in courtrooms, and I don't know if I have seen a more dramatic day than I saw yesterday. There were so many revelations and powerful interchanges between the lawyers and the witnesses that there's a lot to sort out.

The bottom line, I do think the defense made a mistake by going forward. There was a lot of incriminating evidence that came out. The images, even though it was only second-hand through the detectives, were vivid. The story was believable on the part of the woman.

On the defense side, there were -- they did score some points, the most important of which Pamela Mackey, the attorney, brought out repeatedly in her cross-examination is: Where were the injuries? If she was held by the neck for all that time, why was her neck unbruised? And if she was, in fact, raped in this way, why weren't there more injuries to her genital area than there were?

Those points were good points to raise, but I thought they could have waited for the trial. I predicted no hearing. I thought they would have been better off without one.

O'BRIEN: A couple of things that we heard from Pamela Mackey. First, she said, and we saw it in Gary's piece, she asked a question about would those injuries be consistent with a woman having sex with three different guys in three days, sort of coming out of nowhere, which, of course, goes against any kind of law that bars the sexual history of the alleged victim in the case being heard; in addition to that, names the alleged victim's name six times -- not once, not twice, six times, to the point at which the judge said maybe I should get a big muzzle for you.

What do you think her strategy was there, and how unusual was this?

TOOBIN: Well, Soledad, I mean, when she asked that question in the courtroom about the three men in three days, there was like a "whoosh" in the room. It was like, whoa, someone had just dropped a nuclear bomb in court.

I thought it was borderline unethical what she did, because that was maybe in compliance with the rape shield law, but it was certainly on the knife's edge. And the ethical thing to do would have been to raise that privately with the judge and say, can I ask this question, instead of just lobbing this stink bomb in the middle of the courtroom, which is why the judge immediately took everyone out of court. And basically that was the last thing we heard. That's what shut down the hearing.

As for naming the victim six times, again, it was really shocking, and Pamela Mackey kept saying, gosh, I keep making this mistake. I really apologize. You know, once, twice, maybe three times is a legitimate mistake. Six times, you really start to think that it was an act of intimidation towards this...

O'BRIEN: Well, an act of intimation or -- and we have very little time for this, Jeffrey, but I think it's important. Do you think that she's trying to convince the judge that, oops, I might slip later on, it might be smart to close this hearing and close this case to the public?

TOOBIN: Well, I think that is certainly possible. I don't think you can close the trial. There's almost no way under the Constitution you can close a trial. But certainly, one of the issues outstanding is whether this hearing next Wednesday, the continuation of the hearing, will be in public. We simply don't know. Developments are happening in this case so fast and so unpredictably, I hesitate to make yet another incorrect prediction.

O'BRIEN: All right, well, Jeffrey, a lot of people made that prediction yesterday. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

TOOBIN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.