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CNN Live Sunday
Sniper Suspect Plans To Use Insanity Defense
Aired October 12, 2003 - 18:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's been a year since serial snipers terrorized the Washington, D.C. area, killing one random victim after another. Now the first murder trial is about to begin. The older of the two sniper suspects is scheduled to stand trial Tuesday in Virginia Beach.
Now, in this case, John Allen Muhammad is charged in the death of Dean Meyers at a filling station in Manassas. Meyers was one of 10 people shot dead in the sniper attacks. Three others were wounded.
The younger suspect, John Lee Malvo, is planning an insanity defense for an upcoming trial.
To talk about this more with us, we're going to bring in former U.S. attorney, Kendall Coffey. He joins us from Miami. Hi, there, Kendall.
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, MIAMI: Hey, Carol.
LIN: All right. Let's talk about John Allen Muhammad. Here is a man who has not cooperated in any way, shape or form with this investigation. And prosecutors have the weapon, they have the car and a host of other evidence.
So, in looking at a potential jury panel, what kind of a juror is going to save this man from the death penalty?
COFFEY: Well, there's almost no juror that's a good juror for the defense in this case. In fact, at one point, the defense lawyers for Muhammad were suggesting maybe a judge might as well try this case, because they didn't think there was a jury anywhere in the State of Virginia that would have an open mind.
But what they will be looking for is jurors that don't have a connection to law enforcement, and frankly, jurors that seem to have, maybe not a widely open mind, but not as close minded, because the impact of all the publicity is going to be one of the biggest factors in jury selection as it evolves this week.
LIN: Kendall, in more detail, I mean, specific personal attributes that attorneys might be looking for.
COFFEY: Well, for example, one of the things they're going to zero in on is how much news coverage does a particular juror look at? Somebody who is watching CNN all the time, watching other TV, is going to be very, very aware of the details of the evidence. And as you were talking about a moment ago, these were guys who were found inside the car that was the killing machine at the time of their arrest. So, to some extent, the defense is going to be looking for people who don't follow the news as carefully, people who aren't connected to the government, aren't connected to law enforcement in any way.
They know it's going to be tough to find a jury that will have ...
LIN: Yes.
COFFEY: ... any sympathy for their guy.
LIN: I mean, can you imagine who would have missed or not been completely absorbed by the story at the time.
So, maybe the attorneys would have to go to something more fundamental, like core personal beliefs by the jurors, such as their religion, for example.
COFFEY: Well, that's one of the things they're going to look at.
Because what this trial is really about is not any hope that there might be an innocent verdict, but a hope that maybe their guy won't get the death penalty. They'll be looking for people that are, in fact -- have some reservation about the death penalty.
And also, Carol, they're going to be trying to do everything they can to put Malvo on trial, the accomplice, now 18, who has the matches with fingerprints to the gun, with some DNA to the crime scene. So even though it seems upside-down to say that the 42-year-old alleged sniper is less culpable than the juvenile, that's what they have to try to show here, if they're going to have any hope of avoiding the death penalty.
LIN: Well then, wouldn't -- I mean, I might, then, as the prosecutors bring Malvo on the stand -- to take a stand -- in John Allen Muhammad's trial.
COFFEY: They might want to do that, but they know he's going to take the Fifth. For all intents and purposes, they're going to be prohibited from bringing Malvo into the courtroom.
But what they're not going to be prevented from doing -- this is with respect to Muhammad's defense -- is what about the fingerprint evidence that shows what we're being told, the fingerprints of Malvo on the gun, not Muhammad -- DNA.
And, in fact, Malvo himself has a confession, which up to now has been held admissible -- at least in his own trial.
So, all of the evidence is going to point to perhaps Malvo being the triggerman. But the prosecution is still going to say that because Muhammad was the team captain, he is fully as accountable, including for death penalty purposes, as if he had been pulling the trigger himself.
LIN: What do you make of the behind-the-scenes maneuverings, the arguments between the judges and the attorneys over whether John Allen Muhammad would be questioned by a psychiatrist, and when he was questioned by a psychiatrist, that he should not be asked, or would not be allowed to be asked about his state of mind during the killings?
What difference does any of that make?
COFFEY: Well, it may not make a big difference, because there's no indication that Muhammad had a very compelling insanity defense.
But what the judge did rule is, he's probably not going to be able to present any of that, because Muhammad, by refusing to cooperate with the state's appointed psychological expert, has basically disqualified himself from being able to present his own evidence on the subject of mental condition.
Again, I don't think it's going to have a lot to do with the final outcome. Muhammad -- strange, weird, lethal guy that he is, there isn't anything about the evidence we've seen so far that suggests a legitimate defense of insanity within the legal definition.
LIN: Do you think he's going to get a fair trial?
COFFEY: I think he's going to get a fair trial. It's going to be a very difficult trial, because, as we talked about before, there is no one that isn't aware of this case.
In the trial that was looming that never happened, of American Taliban John Walker Lindh, the judges said, you'd have to be on the planet Pluto to have never heard of this case. And much the same applies here.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thank you very much, Kendall Coffey, for joining us on this very high profile case.
COFFEY: Thank you.
LIN: This trial starts on Tuesday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 12, 2003 - 18:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's been a year since serial snipers terrorized the Washington, D.C. area, killing one random victim after another. Now the first murder trial is about to begin. The older of the two sniper suspects is scheduled to stand trial Tuesday in Virginia Beach.
Now, in this case, John Allen Muhammad is charged in the death of Dean Meyers at a filling station in Manassas. Meyers was one of 10 people shot dead in the sniper attacks. Three others were wounded.
The younger suspect, John Lee Malvo, is planning an insanity defense for an upcoming trial.
To talk about this more with us, we're going to bring in former U.S. attorney, Kendall Coffey. He joins us from Miami. Hi, there, Kendall.
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, MIAMI: Hey, Carol.
LIN: All right. Let's talk about John Allen Muhammad. Here is a man who has not cooperated in any way, shape or form with this investigation. And prosecutors have the weapon, they have the car and a host of other evidence.
So, in looking at a potential jury panel, what kind of a juror is going to save this man from the death penalty?
COFFEY: Well, there's almost no juror that's a good juror for the defense in this case. In fact, at one point, the defense lawyers for Muhammad were suggesting maybe a judge might as well try this case, because they didn't think there was a jury anywhere in the State of Virginia that would have an open mind.
But what they will be looking for is jurors that don't have a connection to law enforcement, and frankly, jurors that seem to have, maybe not a widely open mind, but not as close minded, because the impact of all the publicity is going to be one of the biggest factors in jury selection as it evolves this week.
LIN: Kendall, in more detail, I mean, specific personal attributes that attorneys might be looking for.
COFFEY: Well, for example, one of the things they're going to zero in on is how much news coverage does a particular juror look at? Somebody who is watching CNN all the time, watching other TV, is going to be very, very aware of the details of the evidence. And as you were talking about a moment ago, these were guys who were found inside the car that was the killing machine at the time of their arrest. So, to some extent, the defense is going to be looking for people who don't follow the news as carefully, people who aren't connected to the government, aren't connected to law enforcement in any way.
They know it's going to be tough to find a jury that will have ...
LIN: Yes.
COFFEY: ... any sympathy for their guy.
LIN: I mean, can you imagine who would have missed or not been completely absorbed by the story at the time.
So, maybe the attorneys would have to go to something more fundamental, like core personal beliefs by the jurors, such as their religion, for example.
COFFEY: Well, that's one of the things they're going to look at.
Because what this trial is really about is not any hope that there might be an innocent verdict, but a hope that maybe their guy won't get the death penalty. They'll be looking for people that are, in fact -- have some reservation about the death penalty.
And also, Carol, they're going to be trying to do everything they can to put Malvo on trial, the accomplice, now 18, who has the matches with fingerprints to the gun, with some DNA to the crime scene. So even though it seems upside-down to say that the 42-year-old alleged sniper is less culpable than the juvenile, that's what they have to try to show here, if they're going to have any hope of avoiding the death penalty.
LIN: Well then, wouldn't -- I mean, I might, then, as the prosecutors bring Malvo on the stand -- to take a stand -- in John Allen Muhammad's trial.
COFFEY: They might want to do that, but they know he's going to take the Fifth. For all intents and purposes, they're going to be prohibited from bringing Malvo into the courtroom.
But what they're not going to be prevented from doing -- this is with respect to Muhammad's defense -- is what about the fingerprint evidence that shows what we're being told, the fingerprints of Malvo on the gun, not Muhammad -- DNA.
And, in fact, Malvo himself has a confession, which up to now has been held admissible -- at least in his own trial.
So, all of the evidence is going to point to perhaps Malvo being the triggerman. But the prosecution is still going to say that because Muhammad was the team captain, he is fully as accountable, including for death penalty purposes, as if he had been pulling the trigger himself.
LIN: What do you make of the behind-the-scenes maneuverings, the arguments between the judges and the attorneys over whether John Allen Muhammad would be questioned by a psychiatrist, and when he was questioned by a psychiatrist, that he should not be asked, or would not be allowed to be asked about his state of mind during the killings?
What difference does any of that make?
COFFEY: Well, it may not make a big difference, because there's no indication that Muhammad had a very compelling insanity defense.
But what the judge did rule is, he's probably not going to be able to present any of that, because Muhammad, by refusing to cooperate with the state's appointed psychological expert, has basically disqualified himself from being able to present his own evidence on the subject of mental condition.
Again, I don't think it's going to have a lot to do with the final outcome. Muhammad -- strange, weird, lethal guy that he is, there isn't anything about the evidence we've seen so far that suggests a legitimate defense of insanity within the legal definition.
LIN: Do you think he's going to get a fair trial?
COFFEY: I think he's going to get a fair trial. It's going to be a very difficult trial, because, as we talked about before, there is no one that isn't aware of this case.
In the trial that was looming that never happened, of American Taliban John Walker Lindh, the judges said, you'd have to be on the planet Pluto to have never heard of this case. And much the same applies here.
LIN: You bet. All right. Thank you very much, Kendall Coffey, for joining us on this very high profile case.
COFFEY: Thank you.
LIN: This trial starts on Tuesday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
