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CNN Live At Daybreak

Pope John Paul Celebrates 25th Anniversary

Aired October 16, 2003 - 05:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In Rome today, Pope John Paul celebrates his 25th anniversary. Cardinals from around the world are joined by thousands of pilgrims for a mass in St. Peter's Square.
Live to the Vatican now and CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher -- good morning.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: The pope is speaking now to the cardinals?

GALLAGHER: Yes, that's right. As we speak, the pope is signing a document, Carol. Among the many other things that are happening today, this document on bishops is being released. And this is an important document because it's written by the bishops. It's approved by the pope. And this has been happening since 2001, when the Senate of Bishops occurred here in Rome and the bishops got together to write about directives for their brother bishops.

Now, very interestingly, we expect in this document that there will be some reference to the sexual abuse scandals. Of course, in Vatican language, it's never that direct. But we assume that there will be some reference to bishops having to be vigilant with their priests and, of course, be responsive to these cases.

The ceremony is happening as we speak and we'll have that document shortly.

COSTELLO: Yes, I was just going to ask you if it was surprising to you that such a thing is in the document?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's not surprising, Carol, because, as I said, this document was really written by the bishops. It's the bishops themselves who make these suggestions to the pope and then it's a joint effort to decide what the final document will be.

And, of course, the whole church was really rocked by the scandals in the States and it's quite normal that the bishops would want to have some kind of directive in there.

COSTELLO: Well, we know the pope didn't really say much about the sexual abuse scandal in the United States. So will that part of the document make it in the final document?

GALLAGHER: Well, we assume so because, of course, on the Vatican's part, and this is part of why the document is being written, there has always been this argument between the centrality of Rome and the authority of local bishops. And there is a bit of tension between the two -- who has the authority and when? And some bishops, of course, want to have more independence. And sometimes Rome and the pope want to have more authority over their bishops.

So this is the essential internal tension within the church that produces documents like this, because the bishops attempt to address some of those issues, present it to the pope and then he gives his response. And the final document is the final response on the collaboration. So we'll see what that contains.

COSTELLO: All right, Delia Gallagher reporting live from the Vatican this morning.

CNN's Paula Zahn will have live coverage from Rome of the mass celebrating the pope's 25 years on the throne of St. Peter. That begins just before noon today.

Our Web site also has photos and interactive features about the pope's life. Go to cnn.com/world, AOL keyword: CNN.

And for more on the pontiff, we're joined now by our side, David Clinch -- good morning.

DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Good morning, Carol.

Twenty-five years flies by. As I've mentioned a couple of times, you know, I grew up in Ireland, the most Catholic country you can possibly grow up in. I remember as if it was yesterday, almost 25 years ago, 1979, just after the pope had become pope. He visited Ireland. I remember there being more than a million people, I think it was actually close to a million and a half people in a park in central Dublin as he arrived there. That's almost half of the population of Ireland in one place.

COSTELLO: Wow.

CLINCH: I remember the plane flying in. I remember him addressing the young people of Ireland. "I love you," he said. It was a huge event.

But interestingly, you know, Ireland is actually a very good example of the way -- every time I go back to Ireland now, I realize the pope is still a very revered figure, a very important figure. But the influence of the Catholic Church as a whole has definitely waned in Ireland. And it's very interesting to see that he is still a very strong symbol, but some of the weaknesses, some of the problems of the church have had, in many ways, more of an influence than he has had on the everyday influence of the Catholic Church.

COSTELLO: Haven't there been similar scandals within the church in Ireland that there have been in the United States?

CLINCH: Oh, absolutely. I mean the head, Ireland is sort of the worst example of almost institutionalized abuse over a period of many, many decades and even longer than that in Ireland. And it's been a very awkward process of bringing those scandals out in Ireland. And, again, definitely an influence in lowering the power that the church has in places like Ireland. So very interesting.

COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you this, too, because many Catholics here in the United States revere the pope, but they don't always listen to his teachings.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: They sort of do what they want, but say they're still Catholic. Is it the same in Ireland?

CLINCH: I wouldn't say it's the same. I mean, you know, when I was growing up in Ireland, there were 95 percent of the Irish population were practicing Catholics, not just, you know, said they were Catholics, but went to church every day. It's probably a little bit lower now, but it's still a huge proportion. And a huge proportion of those people that practice believe and go with every single word.

But just relatively speaking, there is now, especially amongst the younger generation, a much larger proportion of people who do just that. They are Catholics. They go to church. But they do not necessarily buy into every aspect of what particularly this pope...

COSTELLO: Yes, and we're talking about things like birth control.

CLINCH: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Women in the church, women's role in society.

CLINCH: Right, well...

COSTELLO: And you have to wonder who's going to replace the pope and if anything will change within the hierarchy of the church.

CLINCH: Yes, well, those are the key questions, and obviously his health a key factor in places like Ireland and other Catholic countries, looking very closely at exactly who's who, reading the tea leaves in terms of who will come next in the Catholic Church.

COSTELLO: We'll ask Delia Gallagher more about that in our next hour.

CLINCH: She'll know more than I will, certainly.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes.

David Clinch, many thanks.

CLINCH: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired October 16, 2003 - 05:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In Rome today, Pope John Paul celebrates his 25th anniversary. Cardinals from around the world are joined by thousands of pilgrims for a mass in St. Peter's Square.
Live to the Vatican now and CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher -- good morning.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: The pope is speaking now to the cardinals?

GALLAGHER: Yes, that's right. As we speak, the pope is signing a document, Carol. Among the many other things that are happening today, this document on bishops is being released. And this is an important document because it's written by the bishops. It's approved by the pope. And this has been happening since 2001, when the Senate of Bishops occurred here in Rome and the bishops got together to write about directives for their brother bishops.

Now, very interestingly, we expect in this document that there will be some reference to the sexual abuse scandals. Of course, in Vatican language, it's never that direct. But we assume that there will be some reference to bishops having to be vigilant with their priests and, of course, be responsive to these cases.

The ceremony is happening as we speak and we'll have that document shortly.

COSTELLO: Yes, I was just going to ask you if it was surprising to you that such a thing is in the document?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's not surprising, Carol, because, as I said, this document was really written by the bishops. It's the bishops themselves who make these suggestions to the pope and then it's a joint effort to decide what the final document will be.

And, of course, the whole church was really rocked by the scandals in the States and it's quite normal that the bishops would want to have some kind of directive in there.

COSTELLO: Well, we know the pope didn't really say much about the sexual abuse scandal in the United States. So will that part of the document make it in the final document?

GALLAGHER: Well, we assume so because, of course, on the Vatican's part, and this is part of why the document is being written, there has always been this argument between the centrality of Rome and the authority of local bishops. And there is a bit of tension between the two -- who has the authority and when? And some bishops, of course, want to have more independence. And sometimes Rome and the pope want to have more authority over their bishops.

So this is the essential internal tension within the church that produces documents like this, because the bishops attempt to address some of those issues, present it to the pope and then he gives his response. And the final document is the final response on the collaboration. So we'll see what that contains.

COSTELLO: All right, Delia Gallagher reporting live from the Vatican this morning.

CNN's Paula Zahn will have live coverage from Rome of the mass celebrating the pope's 25 years on the throne of St. Peter. That begins just before noon today.

Our Web site also has photos and interactive features about the pope's life. Go to cnn.com/world, AOL keyword: CNN.

And for more on the pontiff, we're joined now by our side, David Clinch -- good morning.

DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Good morning, Carol.

Twenty-five years flies by. As I've mentioned a couple of times, you know, I grew up in Ireland, the most Catholic country you can possibly grow up in. I remember as if it was yesterday, almost 25 years ago, 1979, just after the pope had become pope. He visited Ireland. I remember there being more than a million people, I think it was actually close to a million and a half people in a park in central Dublin as he arrived there. That's almost half of the population of Ireland in one place.

COSTELLO: Wow.

CLINCH: I remember the plane flying in. I remember him addressing the young people of Ireland. "I love you," he said. It was a huge event.

But interestingly, you know, Ireland is actually a very good example of the way -- every time I go back to Ireland now, I realize the pope is still a very revered figure, a very important figure. But the influence of the Catholic Church as a whole has definitely waned in Ireland. And it's very interesting to see that he is still a very strong symbol, but some of the weaknesses, some of the problems of the church have had, in many ways, more of an influence than he has had on the everyday influence of the Catholic Church.

COSTELLO: Haven't there been similar scandals within the church in Ireland that there have been in the United States?

CLINCH: Oh, absolutely. I mean the head, Ireland is sort of the worst example of almost institutionalized abuse over a period of many, many decades and even longer than that in Ireland. And it's been a very awkward process of bringing those scandals out in Ireland. And, again, definitely an influence in lowering the power that the church has in places like Ireland. So very interesting.

COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you this, too, because many Catholics here in the United States revere the pope, but they don't always listen to his teachings.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: They sort of do what they want, but say they're still Catholic. Is it the same in Ireland?

CLINCH: I wouldn't say it's the same. I mean, you know, when I was growing up in Ireland, there were 95 percent of the Irish population were practicing Catholics, not just, you know, said they were Catholics, but went to church every day. It's probably a little bit lower now, but it's still a huge proportion. And a huge proportion of those people that practice believe and go with every single word.

But just relatively speaking, there is now, especially amongst the younger generation, a much larger proportion of people who do just that. They are Catholics. They go to church. But they do not necessarily buy into every aspect of what particularly this pope...

COSTELLO: Yes, and we're talking about things like birth control.

CLINCH: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Women in the church, women's role in society.

CLINCH: Right, well...

COSTELLO: And you have to wonder who's going to replace the pope and if anything will change within the hierarchy of the church.

CLINCH: Yes, well, those are the key questions, and obviously his health a key factor in places like Ireland and other Catholic countries, looking very closely at exactly who's who, reading the tea leaves in terms of who will come next in the Catholic Church.

COSTELLO: We'll ask Delia Gallagher more about that in our next hour.

CLINCH: She'll know more than I will, certainly.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes.

David Clinch, many thanks.

CLINCH: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com