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Lou Dobbs Tonight

President Bush Focuses Asia-Pacific Summit on Security; Kobe Bryant to Face Trial; Prodigy, 12, Attending Medical School

Aired October 20, 2003 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, October 20. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.

Tonight, President Bush is in Thailand, where he talked optimistically about resolving the North Korean nuclear crisis, a crisis that may have a direct and lasting effect on North Korea's neighboring states. And while the president said the talks on the crisis have made good progress, he also said there would no bilateral nonaggression pact with North Korea.

In response, North Korea has test-fired an anti-ship missile for the first time in six months. White House officials call the test a deliberate provocation. President Bush has put the North Korean nuclear crisis and global terrorism at the top of the agenda at the Asia-Pacific summit.

Senior White House John King reports from Bangkok.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president brushed aside complaints from a few summit colleagues and pushed terrorism and security concerns to the top of the Bangkok agenda.

Mr. Bush not only wants stepped-up intelligence sharing and border controls, but is calling for new efforts to discourage Muslim extremism in Southeast Asia. And the White House publicly rebuked Malaysia's prime minister for remarks it said could incite violence and terror.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Right now, the key for everybody is to step back and give no cover to people who kill because they want to kill.

KING: Prime Minister Mahathir last week complained that Jews -- quote -- "run the world" and have more influence than Muslims because the United States and other Western powers act as their proxies.

RICE: The comments were hateful. They were outrageous.

KING: Over breakfast, talks with South Korea's president about the new U.S. overture to North Korea. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a common goal to make sure that the Korean Peninsula is nuclear-weapons free.

KING: Mr. Bush refuses to negotiate one-on-one with the north, but says he's now prepared to offer written security assurances as part some of form of a joint statement with regional allies.

Japan and Russia are reviewing the initiative. And the White House says finding appropriate language could take some time. Mexico's Fox was among the leaders who complained the summit should stick to its roots as an economic gathering and worry most about things like reviving stalled global trade negotiations. But the U.S. delegation says bombings in Bali and Jakarta over the past year are painful evidence that economics and security go hand in hand.

(on camera): The president was not scheduled to speak with or meet with Prime Minister Mahathir while here for the APEC summit. But he did pull him aside on Monday, telling the Malaysian leaders his remarks against Jews -- quote -- "stand squarely against what I believe." Mr. Bush went on to characterize the remark as wrong and divisive.

John King, CNN, Bangkok.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: As President Bush focused on national security at the Asian summit in Thailand, there was more violence and death in the continuing war in Iraq. Gunmen today killed one American soldier and wounded another six Americans when they ambushed 30 troops on foot patrol. The attack took place near the town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad. Yesterday, terrorists attacked an Army ammunition convoy in that same area. There were no casualties in the attack.

The Army said today it will send additional medical specialists to Fort Stewart, Georgia, to help reduce the backlog of patients from the National Guard and reserves. Wounded and sick Guardsmen at reservists at Fort Stewart say they're sometimes forced to wait months for follow-up treatment in appalling conditions.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, reports -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, officials at Fort Stewart, Georgia, are definitely on the defensive in the wake of complaints from some soldiers, who have said that they have had to live in substandard conditions on the base while waiting for medical care.

Officials at the base are at this moment giving other reporters, including CNN's Kris Osborn, a tour of the base, trying to refute the notion that the troops are being ill-treated. Those are soldiers who are on what's called medical hold. That is, they're not deployable because of injuries or sickness. Some are soldiers who have returned from combat in Iraq with wounds. Others have undiagnosed ailments.

Now, Mark Benjamin is the investigative reporter for UPI who first reported the soldiers' complaints.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK BENJAMIN, UPI: While they're not dying, in some cases, we don't know how sick they are because they're not, they say, getting access to doctors that they need.

For example, in the week before I got there, the soldiers told me there were about 585 soldiers on medical hold. They say there was one doctor available to treat those soldiers. And that's a tough ratio for sick soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Now, the Army denies that any soldiers are being denied proper medical attention and admits, while the conditions in some of the barracks are -- quote -- "spartan and austere," it insists that they are safe. There is no squaller in the military barracks, according to a spokesman. And they say, while it is true some barracks are not air-conditioned, those soldiers with the most serious injuries or wounds are in air-conditioned facilities.

Now, our Kris Osborn, who is touring those barracks right now, tells me that they look like they're pretty standard training barracks. That is, they do have concrete floors, no bathrooms. You have to walk to the latrine. But that's what U.S. military enlisted personnel would often have to stay in, in this kind of condition. The question is, if you're sick or you're injured, is that where you want to be? Probably not. The Army admits it does have a backlog of people on medical hold at this facility.

They are sending an assessment team, which has not yet arrived, down there to try to figure out what they can do. The options include perhaps sending some of the soldiers to private-care facilities or taking other measures to try to bring our Army doctors in to reduce the backlog -- Lou.

DOBBS: Jamie, they're sending in more medical specialists. So, obviously, the Army, the military, has agreed that there is a disproportionate number of people seeking care to the number of care providers.

Secondly, that some barracks would be air-conditioned and not, when you have people who are sick and particularly men and women who have returned from combat, that's just plain flat unconscionable. This is not the stuff of which the military should be making just simply press-release responses, is it?

MCINTYRE: Well, this is -- the conditions at these soldiers are in -- and not all of them came back from Iraq, some of them

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: No, I understand that, but some did.

MCINTYRE: But they are essentially under what you would think of sort of camping conditions. It is not cruel and unusual, but it is not all that comfortable. The question is really how serious are their medical problems, are they getting the attention that they need. And that's why they're sending that assessment team down to try to figure out how valid some of these complaints are and what they can do to correct the situation.

DOBBS: Yes, I think cruel and unusual probably isn't the standard that the military wants to repair to in caring for soldiers who are either sick or wounded or recovering.

Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre reporting from the Pentagon.

Well, Israel today launched five missile strikes against suspected terrorists in Gaza, after radical Islamists killed three Israeli soldiers in the West Bank. The Palestinians say at least 11 people were killed, more than 100 were wounded. Israel said the targets included a van carrying Hamas terrorists, a weapons factory, and a weapons storage facility.

The president's national secured adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is having another bad week with language. Rice is already responsible for upsetting the Japanese by referring to the president's stop in Tokyo on this trip as a layover. Some of her critics are now questioning her choice of words about the North Korean nuclear crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: We want to discuss this with our partners. We are not going to go in all guns blazing and say, take it or leave it. This is it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Condoleezza Rice not the only member of the president's administration having trouble with language. The White House today tried to downplay the significance of some comments on interest rates by Treasury Secretary John Snow, who told "The Times of London" -- quote -- "Higher interest rates are an indicator of a strengthening economy. I'd be frustrated and concerned," he said, "if there were not some upward movement in rates."

The White House said Secretary Snow was not making a policy statement, only an observation.

Dramatic new details today about the airline security alert that meant every commercial jetliner in this country was searched for suspicious items last week. The FBI says a college student says he planted box cutters and other items on six aircraft, not two, as was originally believed.

Our Mike Brooks at CNN Center now.

Mike, what are the charges in this case?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, 20-year-old Nathaniel Heatwole, a college student from Damascus, Maryland, Lou, is being charged with carrying a concealed weapon aboard an aircraft. It is a 10-year felony. And they're taking this very, very seriously. He's due back in court for a preliminary hearing in November -- Lou.

DOBBS: And a felony, but, at the same time, obviously, some problems in terms of security were revealed by what he did. This young man had no malevolent intent, did he?

BROOKS: No.

Apparently, his intent was actually to test the security screening checkpoints that the TSA is operating. Now, there were six different times that he went through the security checkpoints either at Baltimore-Washington International Airport or at Raleigh-Durham. He did flights back and forth, but he left four packages on four different planes on four of the occasions of the six times.

The other times, he just took through box cutters, modeling clay to simulate plastic explosive, some ready-strike matches, a bottle of bleach, and also a note, Lou, that was signed with his date of birth in reverse. Also, he sent an e-mail to TSA on September 15. It was the day after the last one of these packages was placed on a plane.

In the e-mail, he gave specifics about these different -- basically warning the TSA that he had done this. The TSA didn't -- apparently didn't look at these things, didn't take heed of the notice, because they were overwhelmed with too many e-mails and telephone calls at their contact center. So they knew all the way back to the 15th that he had sent these e-mails, because he -- at the end of the e-mail, he signed it, sincerely, Nat Heatwole -- Lou.

DOBBS: Mike, thank you very much -- our Mike Brooks reporting from CNN Center.

And this now just in from Eagle, Colorado. A judge has ruled that basketball star Kobe Bryant will be tried on charges that he raped a 19-year-old hotel worker.

Our Gary Tuchman is outside the courthouse and has the very latest from Eagle, Colorado -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, let us be the first to tell you why the decision has been made to send Kobe Bryant to trial.

According to the judge, he does say that the defendant offered evidence which suggested alternatives to the cause of his alleged injuries. However, it does say that the evidence, when construed in the light most favorable to the people, are evidence of submission and force. Therefore, the judge is saying that the court finds that the evidence, taken in the light most favorable to the prosecution, which is what you do in preliminary hearings, is sufficient to induce a reasonable belief that the defendant, Kobe Bryant, committed sexual assault, as charged.

Therefore, the judge has decided that Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Laker guard, 25 years old, one of the superstars of the NBA, will have to go on trial on felony sexual assault charges.

What happens next is, they will set a date for a first appearance in court and an arraignment, where he'll be read his rights and where he'll make a plea. And then the process begins for Kobe Bryant to go on trial. If he's found guilty of this charge, he could face the possibility of up to life in a Colorado prison. Once again, Kobe Bryant will go to trial -- Lou, back to you.

DOBBS: Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman, reporting live from Eagle, Colorado.

I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, good to have you here.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

DOBBS: The decision to go forward with the trial not entirely surprising, is it?

TOOBIN: Not much of a surprise at all. The government almost never loses a preliminary hearing in Colorado. It would have been a complete shock if the judge had gone the other way. So that means this is a necessary step for the government, but it is not, in any respect, a final step. Getting a conviction will be an entirely separate matter.

DOBBS: Getting a conviction, is it your judgment -- because you've been in Eagle, Colorado -- you've watched the proceedings. You've watched the case for both sides. Is there anything, in your judgment, that says that this judge had a difficult decision in weighing whether or not to proceed or was it a -- was it a slam dunk, to use the expression? It seems relevant here.

TOOBIN: I think it is pretty much a -- it was pretty much a slam dunk.

Once you had a witness saying that the accuser said she was raped, that's pretty much all you need for a preliminary hearing. In a trial, you have to have an accuser who is believable beyond a reasonable doubt. And the accuser has not even testified in court yet. That's the big, big difference between the preliminary hearing and the trial.

DOBBS: The question almost arises, if the standard is that low, why bother with a preliminary hearing? Let them decide and move ahead, without all of the -- frankly, the circus atmosphere.

TOOBIN: Legal reformers have been asking that question a lot. Preliminary hearings are, in some states, on the way out, just because they are so routine and the government almost never loses.

Basically, the reason they survive is that defense lawyers often get a chance to get a little bit of a preview of the government's case, to learn a little bit more about what the evidence is against their clients, so they can prepare better for trial or work out a plea bargain.

DOBBS: This trial, in your judgment, will start when?

TOOBIN: That's a very tough, interesting question. The average complicated felony case in Colorado like this takes about four or five months to get to trial. That would put this in the middle of the basketball season. My sense is that this will be dragged out probably to July or so, after the basketball season.

DOBBS: Just forget basketball here. If this woman has been victimized, what does that say about the speedy justice in this country? That's shockingly absurd.

TOOBIN: Well, the -- it is not out of the ordinary in Colorado have a case wait about six months between preliminary hearing and trial. But it is true that these defense lawyers, they're very good. They're very clever. And they do have a lot of motions to be solved.

There is going to change of venue. There are going to be motions about expert witnesses. That will take a long time. But justice delayed is a big problem in this country. And it will be a source of frustration to a lot of people to see a man accused of such a serious crime be able to play basketball for all these months while these charges are out there.

DOBBS: And for one who -- we have a presumption of innocence in this country, still. If Kobe Bryant indeed is innocent, what does this say about what the system is doing to his life?

TOOBIN: Well, that is what is so terribly difficult about this case.

Because if he's guilty, it's appalling that he's out there playing basketball and this woman is suffering. But if he's innocent, to have to go through this is just awful. And this is one of those cases that, at this stage in the proceeding, it would be totally irresponsible to have even a guess of whether he's guilty or innocent. I have followed this case closely and I have no idea.

DOBBS: OK, Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you.

TOOBIN: Sure.

DOBBS: Coming up next: Two Democratic presidential hopefuls have embarked on a risky political strategy. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider and Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and "L.A. Times" columnist, join us to talk about the likely fallout.

And a shocking and controversial decision from the Environmental Protection Agency which will leave a harmful chemical unchecked in our environment. Peter Viles will report.

And in our series of special reports this week, we focus on "America's Bright Future." Tonight and all this week, we focus on this country's best and brightest young stars. Tonight, we'll introduce you to a medical student working on his studies far brighter than his tender years. Kitty Pilgrim will report.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A major development in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. Candidate Senator Joseph Lieberman and General Wesley Clark both have decided to skip the early and often crucial Iowa caucuses. However, both candidates say their campaign money would be better spent in other states and they say they're not worried about their decision. But will it hurt their chances to win the Democratic presidential nomination?

Joining me now assess that answer is CNN political analyst Bill Schneider, Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times."

Gentlemen, good to have you here.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Let me turn to you, Bill, first.

This is a risky strategy for any candidate, isn't it?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's right.

And people in Iowa like to point out that Al Gore didn't run. He skipped the Iowa caucuses in 1988 and look what happened to him. But I don't think anyone says he didn't get the nomination back in 1988 because he didn't run in Iowa. The same thing with John McCain. He skipped Iowa. He didn't get the nomination. But it certainly didn't hurt him a week later, when he beat George W. Bush in New Hampshire.

So I think their calculation is very simple here, better to write off the Iowa caucuses and take a loss and create no expectations there than to campaign, create high expectations and do worse than expected.

DOBBS: Ron, in one instance, with Senator Lieberman, you have got the candidate, arguably, who has been in the race longest and, in General Wesley Clark, the candidate who has been in the race the least time. What is -- what is the perception? What is your judgment about the impact?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they're in very different positions in terms of Iowa.

I think both of them really had no choice but to write off Iowa. General Clark, as you suggest, is starting so late that it is very difficult at this point to put together the organization it takes to compete in Iowa, which is much more of an organizational test and task than the New Hampshire primary or the primaries that follow. It really was, I believe, I think most people would say, too late for him, although he had shown some appeals in the polls.

Lieberman is a little bit of a different story. Although he didn't start organizing in Iowa nearly as early as, say, Howard Dean, he began with enormous amount of name identification and has seen his support erode there, to the point where, Lou, he was just at 2 percent in a poll last week that put him no higher than Dennis Kucinich or Carol Moseley Braun, the longest of the long shots.

DOBBS: Wow.

BROWNSTEIN: So he has got an issue here with the question not so much of whether he can compete in Iowa, but can he compete for the kind of voters who are evident in Iowa somewhere else down the road. He's not going to be able to win this nomination solely by focusing on places like Oklahoma and Arizona and more conservative Democrats.

DOBBS: Are you both saying that Senator Lieberman is the next in trouble here?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I think he is in trouble. It is hard for him to find a compassionate constituency, particularly to compete with Howard Dean.

Remember one thing about Iowa, Lou. Iowa is a caucus. A caucus is a meeting. It's not an election. You've to get people to attend a meeting which takes the better part of an evening and a lot of energy. And not only that, there is no secret ballot. You have got to stand up in front of your friends and neighbors and God and everybody and declare who you're for. Most, shall we say, normal people really don't want to do that.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: It is a supply-side election in Iowa. Usually, the electorate find the candidates. In Iowa, the candidates really have to find the electorate.

In 2000, even though Al Gore and Bill Bradley spent months and months and months there, practically folding people's laundry, as the old "Saturday Night Live" sketch had it, only about 60,000 people voted. And what that said to some of the experts who work on politics out is, there simply weren't enough candidates out there beating the bushes, creating voters who were willing to come out on that cold night for the caucus.

And it costs a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. And those are two things that both Clark and Lieberman don't really have at this point.

DOBBS: The last polls I saw -- and you correct me with your later and I'm sure inside information, gentlemen -- showed Dean doing very well in Iowa, doing very well in New Hampshire. Is there a serious challenge to his leadership position right now, at least in those two states?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. I think Gephardt and Dean are running neck-and- neck in Iowa, because Gephardt has an issue, which is jobs and trade. He has an organizational base, which is organized labor. And he comes from a next-door state.

He won Iowa in 1988. It didn't do him a whole lot of good, now, did it? But he win Iowa. A lot of Democrats are looking to Gephardt to stop Dean or at least make him stumble in Iowa. I think the race is really ending up as Dean vs. some candidate called "Stop Dean.' It is not clear who that candidate is going to be at this point. But there are a lot of Democrats, particularly in the party establishment, who want to stop Dean, first because they're worried about whether he can beat Bush, and, second, because he goes around insulting Democrats.

He said, if he came to Washington, he would shine a spotlight on Congress and all the cockroaches would come crawling out of the dark. Members of Congress don't like that.

BROWNSTEIN: Lou, Iowa and New Hampshire are different places. New Hampshire is among the most upscale Democratic electorates you'll find anywhere in the country. About 60 percent of the voters there are college graduates.

Those are the sort of people that Howard Dean, like other outsider, reformer candidates before him, is appealing to very effectively. Iowa is different, though. It's more blue-collar. It's older. It's less affluent. And it's there that Dick Gephardt has more of a natural audience, not only on trade, but this argument he's been making lately, putting, I think, the first real dent into Howard Dean, by accusing him of standing with the Republicans on the Medicare confrontation and the budget confrontation in the mid-'90s.

DOBBS: We're just about out of time, but I've got to ask you this. Calling members of Congress cockroaches, running against the Democratic Party establishment, you both seem very assured that that's going to hurt Dean with voters. Is there any possibility it could be a positive, given what we saw in California?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHNEIDER: Running against the establishment often does work. And a lot of candidates have done this.

Look, Dean has a particular slice of the Democratic Party. I call it the yuppie vote, as Ron just described it, just like Tsongas and Dukakis and McGovern and other candidates have in the past. The problem is, he's not strong with blue-collar workers, union members, farmers, minorities. That's where he needs to show some strength.

DOBBS: Thank you, Bill.

Ron, you get the last 15 seconds.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going to say very quickly that running against the party establishment isn't a bad place to be right now, when so many rank-and-file Democrats are angry at the party and believe they didn't stand up to Bush strongly enough.

But, in the end, Lou, you have to consolidate a little bit of that. You have to reach out beyond that base, very liberal, angry base. He's going to have to reach out. The question is, as Bill said, can anyone consolidate the parts of the party that resist Dean? Because, right now, he has got the money. He's got the lead in Iowa and New Hampshire. He's the strongest. I think he has the best chance to have a ticket into the finals of this race.

DOBBS: Ron Brownstein, Bill Schneider, gentlemen, thank you very much.

That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: Is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and General Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of weakness for their campaigns, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the show.

Tonight's quote is from a former first lady on the Democratic presidential candidates -- and we quote -- "So far, they're a pretty sorry group, if you want to know my opinion. This is the world according to Barbara Bush, not George, not George H.W., not anybody" -- former first lady Barbara Bush.

Coming up next: House Minority Leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi joins us. She voted against the $86 billion proposal for Iraq. Congresswoman Pelosi, and Leader Pelosi, she joins us next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A surprising decision by the Environmental Protection Agency over what is becoming an increasingly common fertilizer and a suspected cancer-causing chemical. The EPA now says it will not monitor sewage sludge for various forms of dioxin, because it says the health risk associated are so low.

Peter Viles is here and has the report for us -- Pete.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, more than half the sewage sludge produced in this country is now used as fertilizer, an amazing statistic. And environmentalists believe the federal government is just not doing enough to protect us from harmful chemicals in that sludge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES (voice-over): Industry groups like to call it biosolids, but it is sewage sludge. And under EPA guidelines, more than three million metric tons is spread on farmland every year.

But effective Friday, the EPA will no longer monitor sludge for dioxins, highly toxic chemicals that seep into sewage from various industrial uses. Environmental groups have been fighting the EPA's sludge policy since the 1980s and criticize the decision on dioxins.

NANCY STONER, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: The current cancer risk is estimated to be about one in 10,000. EPA usually regulates at one in a million. So we already have 100 times too much cancer risk from dioxin. The dioxin in sewage sludge is the second largest source of dioxin in the United States.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In its ruling, the EPA said levels of dioxins in sludge have declined since the late '80s. And even in the highest-risk groups, farm families that use sewage sludge to fertilize their fields and eat a diet mainly of their own crops, the dioxins in sludge would cause only one new cancer death every 300 years.

GEOFFREY GRUBBS, EPA: In the final analysis, we don't regulate for regulation's sake. We need to look at what the real risk to people is. And, in this case, as we look at the new cancer cases that could be caused by this particular source, if they were to be isolated, they are extremely small.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Now, the EPA does still require monitoring of levels of heavy metals in sewage sludge, including lead, arsenic and mercury, very appetizing. But, remember, the federal government itself doesn't do the monitoring. Your local and city government does it.

DOBBS: And making all of this highly suspect, Pete, is the fact that those local municipalities have to dispose of this sludge. And this, putting it on fertile -- this fertilizer, on farmland, is by far the cheapest solution for everyone.

VILES: Or, in some cases, they even make money doing it. So you have the cities and towns that have this sludge, have to do something it. They don't want any new regulation.

DOBBS: Because they're prescribed by the Clean Water Act from dumping it.

VILES: Sure. Right.

And you have the chemical industry that doesn't want anything new on paper, any regulations from the government that say, so many parts per trillion is bad, this way of dealing with dioxins. There is now no level that is good or bad. There's no level to be monitored.

DOBBS: Pete, thank you very much -- Peter Viles.

Turning to the heated debate over the safety of U.S. forces in Iraq now, President Bush is expected to sign the almost $87 billion reconstruction bill for Iraq and Afghanistan as early as this week.

Both houses of Congress approved a different version of the legislation last week. My next guest voted against it. She's House minority leader Nancy Pelosi. She's still waiting to hear how the White House spent the last $67 some odd million that Congress approved for Iraq. She said not enough of it was spent to make U.S. forces any safer in Iraq.

We're now joined by Minority Leader Pelosi from Washington, D.C., naturally.

Good to have you with us.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Was it a surprise to you that the $86 billion was approved by Congress, despite the opposition of the leadership, the Democratic leadership in both houses?

PELOSI: No surprise at all. We have a Republican president, a Republican Senate, and a Republican House of Representatives. There was some unrest and discomfort among our Republican colleagues with this package, because they know its shortcomings. But at the end of the day, they voted for it. So it was no surprise.

DOBBS: This issue of reconstruction, the amount of money that has been spent, you're asking for an accounting for the last $60 billion. To what end?

PELOSI: Well, Lou, when the president -- last spring in April, we appropriated $63 billion for Iraq. Over 400 members of Congress supported that. And then September 7, the president came forward with an $87 billion request. This is a huge amount of money on the heels of the $63 billion.

From the signs of it, what we could see, it looked like the $63 billion shortchanged our men and women in uniform and gave gold-plated no bid contracts to friends of the administration. So we wanted an accounting of that money, a justification of the $87 billion, neither which of we have received, and some accountability on the policy which went into post-war Iraq with no plan, with no plan.

And don't take my word for it. General Zinni (ph) said the level of sacrifice of the men and women in uniform is not matched by a level of planning for post-war Iraq.

DOBBS: And as you say this, minority leader, looking at the -- majority of the Democrats in the Senate actually voted for this legislation. A fairly even split but nonetheless, a majority voting against it in the House. But still a sizable number, more than 80 Democratic congressmen and women voting to support the legislation.

Does that concern you, that there is that apparent split in Democratic thinking right now on this issue?

PELOSI: The Senate bill is a different bill from the House...

DOBBS: Right.

PELOSI: ... as you know, because it treated the reconstruction money differently. We did not have that opportunity in the House.

In the House, the Democrats voted unanimously in support of our Democratic proposal, which would have put more money, $4.5 billion more in -- for the troops to protect them and to equip them to do their jobs, accomplish their mission and come home safely and soon. It also sent $7 billion immediately to Iraq and $7 billion to the World Bank to be capitalized at four to one to $28 billion for future needs on reconstruction. The president's office has told us -- in fact, they told us on September 7, the day of the speech that it was going to cost $50 billion to $75 billion more for reconstruction. So anticipating those additional costs, we thought we would internationalize them, instead of having our troops taking virtual all the risk and our taxpayers paying all of the bill.

As I understand it, they had a bifurcation in terms of the loans versus grants. We weren't allowed to do that in the House. I hope that in the conference committee, there will somebody reason that will prevail and say we have to do right by our troops to really equip them, to protect them, and not just use them to bring in an inflated reconstruction package which does not, again, internationalize the cost, Iraq-itize the initiatives and again, bring our troops home safely and soon.

DOBBS: When you took over as minority leader, you said that Democrats would never again enter an election year without a single message, one that -- in which everyone could unite. Are you feeling pretty good about the process of developing that message on behalf of your party?

PELOSI: Exactly what I said, Lou. And you're pretty good. You have it almost. It was that never again will Democrats go into a campaign where the public doesn't know who we are, what we stand for, how different we are from the Republicans, and what we are willing to fight for.

That we would, of course, present a positive message on economic growth, educating American people, protecting our environment, securing our country, and as well as preparing our children for the future.

DOBBS: Minority leader, the reason that I perhaps got pretty close to -- sometimes I have to honor time constraints here, the idea that we are watching nine candidates seeking your party's nomination, two of whom will not be in Iowa. Do you think that will be punishing to their chances?

PELOSI: Lou, I think that this year is unlike any other year. We always talk about these things on past assumptions and history and the rest. But I think -- witness what you just saw in California -- that times, they are a-changing and that the public will respond to candidates that -- that their message about what it means to them. And whether they ran into a particular primary or not is really not going to be that important to the majority of the voters in the country.

But I will say this, that the two campaigns are taking a risk not going into those early states.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, House minority leader, we thank you very much for being with us this evening.

PELOSI: Any one of them will be the next president of the United States. Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: With that forecast, we thank you again.

Exporting America tonight, the House Small Business Committee today held a hearing on a subject we have been reporting here for months: the growing number of highly skilled American jobs that are being exported overseas.

Committee chairman Don Manzullo called on Congress to strengthen buy American legislation, including a provision that would require the Pentagon and defense contractors to buy more American made equipment.

The panel heard testimony from U.S. industry officials and a former Silicon Valley engineer whose job was exported overseas. Congressman Manzullo will be my guest tomorrow night. We'll be coming to you from the nation's capital tomorrow evening when we hope you'll join us.

Coming up here next, remember the energy bill? My next guest does. In fact, he's still working on it. We'll be joined by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, Billy Tauzin. He joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Modernizing the power grid, building a natural gas pipeline from Alaska, the controversy over drilling. Just a few of the issues in the energy bill still being written in Congress and a measure gaining momentum after the summer's blackout that hit about 50 million people.

Joining us now with more on the future of this bill is one of the architects of it, Congressman Billy Tauzin, who's the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee.

Good to have you with us, Mr. Chairman.

REP. BILLY TAUZIN (R-LA), CHAIRMAN, ENERGY AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE: Good evening, Lou.

DOBBS: You hit a little bit of a last minute obstacle here. What's holding things up?

TAUZIN: The tax writers. In the middle of getting our energy conference completed, we have to get Chairman Grassley and Chairman Thomas together and finalize the tax incentive portions of the bill, since they represent the Finance and the Ways and Means Committee together.

They're busy writing the Medicare report. You know, Thomas is chairing the Medicare conference with Grassley, and I'm on that conference as well. So it's literally getting staff time and members' attention on the final pieces.

But I expect they'll get the tax work done this week. And sometimes early next week we'll be in a final conference meeting. DOBBS: And how much do you expect to see finalized in total incentives?

TAUZIN: Well, yes, I think they're looking at $16-18 billion as a total package within the bill. So that's smaller than -- much smaller than last year's -- the last Congress' version. Targeted more to specific elements of the bill that we think are critical to get either new fuels developed, to encourage, you know, renewables and encourage alternatives into the marketplace where we think those are, you know, likely to happen, not just to put on tax incentive for anything but to look for the things that are real and could happen.

DOBBS: The things that are real and could happen didn't 20 years ago. That is some fuels -- the development of alternate energy sources, the commitment on the part of this country, critics, and frankly supporters of the energy bill alike, lament. Is there anything that this bill that's going to assure us and mince research and development to provide for alternates to fossil fuels?

TAUZIN: Well, yes. I mean, the bill is riddled with all sorts of incentives such as the Freedom Corps initiative to create the hydrogen fuel cell car. As you know, the hybrids are now being produced by Detroit and other places in the world.

We want to see a pure hydrogen fuel cell one day. That means you've got to research how to produce hydrogen, how to get it in the marketplace, not only how to build a car. All of that is part of this bill, along with, I could say -- a quick example -- a lot more.

Remember what stopped us last time, Lou? Sheik Imani (ph) representing the Saudis and OPEC, decided that we'd gone too far with looking for alternative fuels. We had done too much exploration around the world outside of Saudi Arabia. And if you recall, they determined to overproduce and drop the price of oil, and they dropped it all the way down to $8 a barrel and demolished so many programs that were designed to produce alternatives.

As long as we are at risk of being so dependent upon the Saudis, we have a risk of that happening again. That's sad. That's why this bill contains not just conservation and alternative fuels and research and development, but it also contains some real incentives for more production here in this country.

DOBBS: We've squandered such amazing opportunities to reduce our dependence on foreign oil over the last 20 years. Is it your judgment that Americans can walk away after the Congress signs this legislation, puts it in front of the president and he signs it, with the idea that we're not going to see another waste of 20 years?

TAUZIN: I think not. I mean, when you see this bill in its entirety, Lou, it will hold the best promise for a comprehensive policy this country has ever seen. It will be the most comprehensive bill this Congress has ever voted on.

We voted on tax policies in the past. We voted on environmental policies that affected energy. But we never took a strong look at all the elements at one time. How to make sure the grids are adequate, how to make sure that there is enough power production in every region of the country, so that regional organizations form and we get real markets developed for utilities and power in this country.

How do you make sure that these alternative forms really hit the market? How do you incentivize wind energy and solar and make sure that net metering, for example, occurs? It does you no good to have people use these forms if they can't net meter back into the system.

All of these are part and parcel of this bill, along with the recognition that you also have to produce at home. If you don't produce at home, and you don't encourage conservation at home, your dependence on foreign sources inevitably grows.

DOBBS: Congressman Billy Tauzin, we thank you very much for being with us here tonight.

TAUZIN: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and General Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of weakness for their campaigns? We'll have the results coming right up.

Next, most kids his age are in junior high school, but this kid is already in medical school. Kitty Pilgrim reports on our series of special reports all this week, "America's Bright Future."

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Every night on this broadcast we focus on a number of issues, a number of problems and occasionally even tragic events that we all must deal with in this life. And sometimes lost is a perspective on much that is terrific about this country.

And for that reason this week we're focusing on a number of young people who are an important part of our future. We call this series of special reports "America's Bright Future." We focus this week on five remarkable young people who have accomplished, in a very few years, far more than most of us will accomplish in a lifetime.

Tonight, a 12-year-old who is studying to be a doctor. Kitty Pilgrim is here with his story -- Kitty.

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we have all been in school with the bright kids, you know, the ones that get the A's effortlessly. But this child has set an academic pace that no one can believe.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Meet Sho Yano. Yes, he is a musical prodigy, but that is not the full story. He was reading at the age of 2. His preschool I.Q. test was beyond measure. His mother and father met in the United States when they were students. His mother, Kyung, is Korean. His father, Katsura (ph), is Japanese.

Sho was born in Oregon. And as a toddler, he was reading anything could get his hands on, including science.

Schools couldn't keep up with him, so his mother devoted her days to home schooling him with the sister, Seiyuri (ph). But soon his mom couldn't keep up.

KYUNG YANO, SHO'S MOTHER: At age 1 and 2 like crazy. And I was telling Sho, Sho, slow down. Because I need the time to prepare.

PILGRIM: But as a true genius, Sho could not explain why it came so easy.

YANO: I would always try to solve some questions and he was to watch and he said, "Mom, I have better idea." And he already could solve it.

So, "Hey, how did you find out?"

He said, "I don't know. Just I know it. Just some kind of idea popped."

So I said, "Well, that's wonderful."

PILGRIM: Sho went to college when most children are finishing grade school. Then on to medical school, age 12.

But there's more.

(on camera) Here at the University of Chicago, Sho is in the medical program, but has also started his Ph.D.

(voice-over) He's combining the four-year medical program with a Ph.D. in medical research. He thinks he wants to pursue cancer research. The average age of medical students in this country, 24 years old.

SHO YANO, ATTENDING MEDICAL SCHOOL: I know I'm different from the rest of the kids. I feel it; they feel it too. But we're just fine. And when we're studying, we can ignore the age difference. When we're not studying, it doesn't really bother us.

PILGRIM: When other students will go on next year to work with patients, Sho will not. Not because he doesn't have the skills, but he looks so young. So he thinks he will continue his Ph.D. studies until he looks a little older.

His mother will stay with him every step of the way. After all, he is a child.

K. YANG: Do you feel cold? Oh, yes. PILGRIM: Sho's little sister is in the eighth grade. Seiyuri (ph) is also a musical prodigy in piano and violin. But they don't know which direction she will take.

Sho is philosophical about her deciding on a career.

S. YANO: It takes a long time to decide what you want to do in anyone.

PILGRIM: Twelve years, even.

S. YANO: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Sho says even now he still loves music. Although he had to scale back to concentrate on science and medicine, he still wants to squeeze in a class in musical composition. Lou, I have no doubt that he will absolutely be able to manage that.

DOBBS: What an amazing kid.

PILGRIM: He is astonishing. And I have met a lot of smart kids, but this boy is astonishing.

DOBBS: His sister is pretty good, too.

PILGRIM: His sister is doing fine.

DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much for bringing us the story. Thank you.

Tonight's thought is on physicians. Those 12-years-old aspiring to be and the men and women who care for all of us each day.

"Men who are occupied in the restoration of health to other men, by the joint exertion of skill and humanity, are above all the great of the earth. They even partake of divinity, since to preserve and renew is almost as noble as to create."

And that is for Sho, and for you, from French writer and philosopher Voltaire.

Tomorrow, in our special report, "America's Bright Future," we introduce you to a young prodigy on the violin who is also one of the world's youngest philanthropists. We'll have his story tomorrow night here. Please with be us.

Coming right up, your thoughts on illegal aliens, overpopulation and this country's precious natural resources. We'll be sharing some of your thoughts next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBB: The results of our poll is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and general Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of their weaknesses for their campaigns? Forty-four percent say yes. Fifty-six percent say no.

On Wall Street, stocks opened the week with modest gains, the Dow up 56, the NASDAQ up almost 13, the S&P up almost five.

Christine Romans is here with a market.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A little burst of buying late in the day, Lou. It was all stoked by another solid round of earnings reports.

A hundred-sixty-one S&P 500 companies have reported now, and they're showing profit growth of almost 17.6 percent -- almost 18 percent -- on revenue growth of 7 percent, the best quarter since the second quarter of 2000.

3M shares hit a record high, reported income up 22 percent. Revenue up 11 percent, and it raised its target.

Citigroup reported record profit, but those shares fell slightly.

And Texas Instruments profit and revenue rose after the bell. It's stock up three percent during the day; another seven percent right now. We'll watch it tomorrow.

Meanwhile, economists sharpening their pencils, Lou, raising third quarter growth forecasts. Six percent growth would be the fastest since 1999 when the economy grew 7.1 percent. And some economists say seven percent growth is not out of question for the third quarter.

They say, except for jobs creation, the economy was firing on all cylinders from July through September. You had a September leading economic indicator number today that fell slightly. They're saying that's probably just an aberration.

DOBBS: I believe it's also news when we start seeing real jobs being created, but seven percent is amazing. And if that's the case, then we're setting the stage for some real strong stocks.

ROMANS: That's the high end.

DOBBS: Mutual fund investigation?

ROMANS: Yes. Nothing new today except Morning Star advises people with Fred Alger funds to sell them.

DOBBS: All right. Well, that's worthy of note. Thanks a lot, Christine Romans.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

DOBBS: We take a look now at your thoughts.

From Big Rapids, Michigan, "Overpopulation, illegal aliens, pollution, outsourcing of jobs, and the shrinking middle class are the big issues facing Americans. Thank you, Lou, for bringing these issues to light and giving them the attention they deserve." That's from Gary Breitenstein.

From Los Cruces, New Mexico, "Our population numbers don't even begin to reflect the masses of illegal immigrants that openly live in our city. They live off of our tax dollars, free education, free medical care and free legal representation when they break our laws. And then they have the nerve to say they deserve civil rights! I'm a citizen and have to pay for these services for people who are illegally in our country. And when will our politicians stop using the word 'undocumented?' Illegal is the correct terminology."

That's from Carmen.

From Virginia, "Population growth is not only causing overcrowding but over consumption of our limited resources. How long until the resources are not enough to support the populace and civil war breaks out to control what is left? Not in my lifetime but perhaps my grandchildren?" That from M. Goin.

And from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, "Lou, keep up the good work and tell it like it is. I was especially touched by your 'Heroes' segment on Robert Acosta. If you could, just let him know that one more American says thank you."

Jeffrey Harrell, you just did. And we certainly thank him, as well.

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.

That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us.

Tomorrow, join us for the first of our reporting from Washington, D.C. Our political round table joins me to talk about the latest headlines from Iraq to the race for the White House. Please with be us.

For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Kobe Bryant to Face Trial; Prodigy, 12, Attending Medical School>


Aired October 20, 2003 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, October 20. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.

Tonight, President Bush is in Thailand, where he talked optimistically about resolving the North Korean nuclear crisis, a crisis that may have a direct and lasting effect on North Korea's neighboring states. And while the president said the talks on the crisis have made good progress, he also said there would no bilateral nonaggression pact with North Korea.

In response, North Korea has test-fired an anti-ship missile for the first time in six months. White House officials call the test a deliberate provocation. President Bush has put the North Korean nuclear crisis and global terrorism at the top of the agenda at the Asia-Pacific summit.

Senior White House John King reports from Bangkok.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president brushed aside complaints from a few summit colleagues and pushed terrorism and security concerns to the top of the Bangkok agenda.

Mr. Bush not only wants stepped-up intelligence sharing and border controls, but is calling for new efforts to discourage Muslim extremism in Southeast Asia. And the White House publicly rebuked Malaysia's prime minister for remarks it said could incite violence and terror.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Right now, the key for everybody is to step back and give no cover to people who kill because they want to kill.

KING: Prime Minister Mahathir last week complained that Jews -- quote -- "run the world" and have more influence than Muslims because the United States and other Western powers act as their proxies.

RICE: The comments were hateful. They were outrageous.

KING: Over breakfast, talks with South Korea's president about the new U.S. overture to North Korea. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a common goal to make sure that the Korean Peninsula is nuclear-weapons free.

KING: Mr. Bush refuses to negotiate one-on-one with the north, but says he's now prepared to offer written security assurances as part some of form of a joint statement with regional allies.

Japan and Russia are reviewing the initiative. And the White House says finding appropriate language could take some time. Mexico's Fox was among the leaders who complained the summit should stick to its roots as an economic gathering and worry most about things like reviving stalled global trade negotiations. But the U.S. delegation says bombings in Bali and Jakarta over the past year are painful evidence that economics and security go hand in hand.

(on camera): The president was not scheduled to speak with or meet with Prime Minister Mahathir while here for the APEC summit. But he did pull him aside on Monday, telling the Malaysian leaders his remarks against Jews -- quote -- "stand squarely against what I believe." Mr. Bush went on to characterize the remark as wrong and divisive.

John King, CNN, Bangkok.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: As President Bush focused on national security at the Asian summit in Thailand, there was more violence and death in the continuing war in Iraq. Gunmen today killed one American soldier and wounded another six Americans when they ambushed 30 troops on foot patrol. The attack took place near the town of Fallujah, west of Baghdad. Yesterday, terrorists attacked an Army ammunition convoy in that same area. There were no casualties in the attack.

The Army said today it will send additional medical specialists to Fort Stewart, Georgia, to help reduce the backlog of patients from the National Guard and reserves. Wounded and sick Guardsmen at reservists at Fort Stewart say they're sometimes forced to wait months for follow-up treatment in appalling conditions.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, reports -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, officials at Fort Stewart, Georgia, are definitely on the defensive in the wake of complaints from some soldiers, who have said that they have had to live in substandard conditions on the base while waiting for medical care.

Officials at the base are at this moment giving other reporters, including CNN's Kris Osborn, a tour of the base, trying to refute the notion that the troops are being ill-treated. Those are soldiers who are on what's called medical hold. That is, they're not deployable because of injuries or sickness. Some are soldiers who have returned from combat in Iraq with wounds. Others have undiagnosed ailments.

Now, Mark Benjamin is the investigative reporter for UPI who first reported the soldiers' complaints.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK BENJAMIN, UPI: While they're not dying, in some cases, we don't know how sick they are because they're not, they say, getting access to doctors that they need.

For example, in the week before I got there, the soldiers told me there were about 585 soldiers on medical hold. They say there was one doctor available to treat those soldiers. And that's a tough ratio for sick soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Now, the Army denies that any soldiers are being denied proper medical attention and admits, while the conditions in some of the barracks are -- quote -- "spartan and austere," it insists that they are safe. There is no squaller in the military barracks, according to a spokesman. And they say, while it is true some barracks are not air-conditioned, those soldiers with the most serious injuries or wounds are in air-conditioned facilities.

Now, our Kris Osborn, who is touring those barracks right now, tells me that they look like they're pretty standard training barracks. That is, they do have concrete floors, no bathrooms. You have to walk to the latrine. But that's what U.S. military enlisted personnel would often have to stay in, in this kind of condition. The question is, if you're sick or you're injured, is that where you want to be? Probably not. The Army admits it does have a backlog of people on medical hold at this facility.

They are sending an assessment team, which has not yet arrived, down there to try to figure out what they can do. The options include perhaps sending some of the soldiers to private-care facilities or taking other measures to try to bring our Army doctors in to reduce the backlog -- Lou.

DOBBS: Jamie, they're sending in more medical specialists. So, obviously, the Army, the military, has agreed that there is a disproportionate number of people seeking care to the number of care providers.

Secondly, that some barracks would be air-conditioned and not, when you have people who are sick and particularly men and women who have returned from combat, that's just plain flat unconscionable. This is not the stuff of which the military should be making just simply press-release responses, is it?

MCINTYRE: Well, this is -- the conditions at these soldiers are in -- and not all of them came back from Iraq, some of them

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: No, I understand that, but some did.

MCINTYRE: But they are essentially under what you would think of sort of camping conditions. It is not cruel and unusual, but it is not all that comfortable. The question is really how serious are their medical problems, are they getting the attention that they need. And that's why they're sending that assessment team down to try to figure out how valid some of these complaints are and what they can do to correct the situation.

DOBBS: Yes, I think cruel and unusual probably isn't the standard that the military wants to repair to in caring for soldiers who are either sick or wounded or recovering.

Jamie, thank you very much -- Jamie McIntyre reporting from the Pentagon.

Well, Israel today launched five missile strikes against suspected terrorists in Gaza, after radical Islamists killed three Israeli soldiers in the West Bank. The Palestinians say at least 11 people were killed, more than 100 were wounded. Israel said the targets included a van carrying Hamas terrorists, a weapons factory, and a weapons storage facility.

The president's national secured adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is having another bad week with language. Rice is already responsible for upsetting the Japanese by referring to the president's stop in Tokyo on this trip as a layover. Some of her critics are now questioning her choice of words about the North Korean nuclear crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: We want to discuss this with our partners. We are not going to go in all guns blazing and say, take it or leave it. This is it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Condoleezza Rice not the only member of the president's administration having trouble with language. The White House today tried to downplay the significance of some comments on interest rates by Treasury Secretary John Snow, who told "The Times of London" -- quote -- "Higher interest rates are an indicator of a strengthening economy. I'd be frustrated and concerned," he said, "if there were not some upward movement in rates."

The White House said Secretary Snow was not making a policy statement, only an observation.

Dramatic new details today about the airline security alert that meant every commercial jetliner in this country was searched for suspicious items last week. The FBI says a college student says he planted box cutters and other items on six aircraft, not two, as was originally believed.

Our Mike Brooks at CNN Center now.

Mike, what are the charges in this case?

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, 20-year-old Nathaniel Heatwole, a college student from Damascus, Maryland, Lou, is being charged with carrying a concealed weapon aboard an aircraft. It is a 10-year felony. And they're taking this very, very seriously. He's due back in court for a preliminary hearing in November -- Lou.

DOBBS: And a felony, but, at the same time, obviously, some problems in terms of security were revealed by what he did. This young man had no malevolent intent, did he?

BROOKS: No.

Apparently, his intent was actually to test the security screening checkpoints that the TSA is operating. Now, there were six different times that he went through the security checkpoints either at Baltimore-Washington International Airport or at Raleigh-Durham. He did flights back and forth, but he left four packages on four different planes on four of the occasions of the six times.

The other times, he just took through box cutters, modeling clay to simulate plastic explosive, some ready-strike matches, a bottle of bleach, and also a note, Lou, that was signed with his date of birth in reverse. Also, he sent an e-mail to TSA on September 15. It was the day after the last one of these packages was placed on a plane.

In the e-mail, he gave specifics about these different -- basically warning the TSA that he had done this. The TSA didn't -- apparently didn't look at these things, didn't take heed of the notice, because they were overwhelmed with too many e-mails and telephone calls at their contact center. So they knew all the way back to the 15th that he had sent these e-mails, because he -- at the end of the e-mail, he signed it, sincerely, Nat Heatwole -- Lou.

DOBBS: Mike, thank you very much -- our Mike Brooks reporting from CNN Center.

And this now just in from Eagle, Colorado. A judge has ruled that basketball star Kobe Bryant will be tried on charges that he raped a 19-year-old hotel worker.

Our Gary Tuchman is outside the courthouse and has the very latest from Eagle, Colorado -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, let us be the first to tell you why the decision has been made to send Kobe Bryant to trial.

According to the judge, he does say that the defendant offered evidence which suggested alternatives to the cause of his alleged injuries. However, it does say that the evidence, when construed in the light most favorable to the people, are evidence of submission and force. Therefore, the judge is saying that the court finds that the evidence, taken in the light most favorable to the prosecution, which is what you do in preliminary hearings, is sufficient to induce a reasonable belief that the defendant, Kobe Bryant, committed sexual assault, as charged.

Therefore, the judge has decided that Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Laker guard, 25 years old, one of the superstars of the NBA, will have to go on trial on felony sexual assault charges.

What happens next is, they will set a date for a first appearance in court and an arraignment, where he'll be read his rights and where he'll make a plea. And then the process begins for Kobe Bryant to go on trial. If he's found guilty of this charge, he could face the possibility of up to life in a Colorado prison. Once again, Kobe Bryant will go to trial -- Lou, back to you.

DOBBS: Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman, reporting live from Eagle, Colorado.

I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, good to have you here.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

DOBBS: The decision to go forward with the trial not entirely surprising, is it?

TOOBIN: Not much of a surprise at all. The government almost never loses a preliminary hearing in Colorado. It would have been a complete shock if the judge had gone the other way. So that means this is a necessary step for the government, but it is not, in any respect, a final step. Getting a conviction will be an entirely separate matter.

DOBBS: Getting a conviction, is it your judgment -- because you've been in Eagle, Colorado -- you've watched the proceedings. You've watched the case for both sides. Is there anything, in your judgment, that says that this judge had a difficult decision in weighing whether or not to proceed or was it a -- was it a slam dunk, to use the expression? It seems relevant here.

TOOBIN: I think it is pretty much a -- it was pretty much a slam dunk.

Once you had a witness saying that the accuser said she was raped, that's pretty much all you need for a preliminary hearing. In a trial, you have to have an accuser who is believable beyond a reasonable doubt. And the accuser has not even testified in court yet. That's the big, big difference between the preliminary hearing and the trial.

DOBBS: The question almost arises, if the standard is that low, why bother with a preliminary hearing? Let them decide and move ahead, without all of the -- frankly, the circus atmosphere.

TOOBIN: Legal reformers have been asking that question a lot. Preliminary hearings are, in some states, on the way out, just because they are so routine and the government almost never loses.

Basically, the reason they survive is that defense lawyers often get a chance to get a little bit of a preview of the government's case, to learn a little bit more about what the evidence is against their clients, so they can prepare better for trial or work out a plea bargain.

DOBBS: This trial, in your judgment, will start when?

TOOBIN: That's a very tough, interesting question. The average complicated felony case in Colorado like this takes about four or five months to get to trial. That would put this in the middle of the basketball season. My sense is that this will be dragged out probably to July or so, after the basketball season.

DOBBS: Just forget basketball here. If this woman has been victimized, what does that say about the speedy justice in this country? That's shockingly absurd.

TOOBIN: Well, the -- it is not out of the ordinary in Colorado have a case wait about six months between preliminary hearing and trial. But it is true that these defense lawyers, they're very good. They're very clever. And they do have a lot of motions to be solved.

There is going to change of venue. There are going to be motions about expert witnesses. That will take a long time. But justice delayed is a big problem in this country. And it will be a source of frustration to a lot of people to see a man accused of such a serious crime be able to play basketball for all these months while these charges are out there.

DOBBS: And for one who -- we have a presumption of innocence in this country, still. If Kobe Bryant indeed is innocent, what does this say about what the system is doing to his life?

TOOBIN: Well, that is what is so terribly difficult about this case.

Because if he's guilty, it's appalling that he's out there playing basketball and this woman is suffering. But if he's innocent, to have to go through this is just awful. And this is one of those cases that, at this stage in the proceeding, it would be totally irresponsible to have even a guess of whether he's guilty or innocent. I have followed this case closely and I have no idea.

DOBBS: OK, Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thank you.

TOOBIN: Sure.

DOBBS: Coming up next: Two Democratic presidential hopefuls have embarked on a risky political strategy. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider and Ron Brownstein, CNN political analyst and "L.A. Times" columnist, join us to talk about the likely fallout.

And a shocking and controversial decision from the Environmental Protection Agency which will leave a harmful chemical unchecked in our environment. Peter Viles will report.

And in our series of special reports this week, we focus on "America's Bright Future." Tonight and all this week, we focus on this country's best and brightest young stars. Tonight, we'll introduce you to a medical student working on his studies far brighter than his tender years. Kitty Pilgrim will report.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A major development in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. Candidate Senator Joseph Lieberman and General Wesley Clark both have decided to skip the early and often crucial Iowa caucuses. However, both candidates say their campaign money would be better spent in other states and they say they're not worried about their decision. But will it hurt their chances to win the Democratic presidential nomination?

Joining me now assess that answer is CNN political analyst Bill Schneider, Ron Brownstein of "The Los Angeles Times."

Gentlemen, good to have you here.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Let me turn to you, Bill, first.

This is a risky strategy for any candidate, isn't it?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's right.

And people in Iowa like to point out that Al Gore didn't run. He skipped the Iowa caucuses in 1988 and look what happened to him. But I don't think anyone says he didn't get the nomination back in 1988 because he didn't run in Iowa. The same thing with John McCain. He skipped Iowa. He didn't get the nomination. But it certainly didn't hurt him a week later, when he beat George W. Bush in New Hampshire.

So I think their calculation is very simple here, better to write off the Iowa caucuses and take a loss and create no expectations there than to campaign, create high expectations and do worse than expected.

DOBBS: Ron, in one instance, with Senator Lieberman, you have got the candidate, arguably, who has been in the race longest and, in General Wesley Clark, the candidate who has been in the race the least time. What is -- what is the perception? What is your judgment about the impact?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they're in very different positions in terms of Iowa.

I think both of them really had no choice but to write off Iowa. General Clark, as you suggest, is starting so late that it is very difficult at this point to put together the organization it takes to compete in Iowa, which is much more of an organizational test and task than the New Hampshire primary or the primaries that follow. It really was, I believe, I think most people would say, too late for him, although he had shown some appeals in the polls.

Lieberman is a little bit of a different story. Although he didn't start organizing in Iowa nearly as early as, say, Howard Dean, he began with enormous amount of name identification and has seen his support erode there, to the point where, Lou, he was just at 2 percent in a poll last week that put him no higher than Dennis Kucinich or Carol Moseley Braun, the longest of the long shots.

DOBBS: Wow.

BROWNSTEIN: So he has got an issue here with the question not so much of whether he can compete in Iowa, but can he compete for the kind of voters who are evident in Iowa somewhere else down the road. He's not going to be able to win this nomination solely by focusing on places like Oklahoma and Arizona and more conservative Democrats.

DOBBS: Are you both saying that Senator Lieberman is the next in trouble here?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I think he is in trouble. It is hard for him to find a compassionate constituency, particularly to compete with Howard Dean.

Remember one thing about Iowa, Lou. Iowa is a caucus. A caucus is a meeting. It's not an election. You've to get people to attend a meeting which takes the better part of an evening and a lot of energy. And not only that, there is no secret ballot. You have got to stand up in front of your friends and neighbors and God and everybody and declare who you're for. Most, shall we say, normal people really don't want to do that.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: It is a supply-side election in Iowa. Usually, the electorate find the candidates. In Iowa, the candidates really have to find the electorate.

In 2000, even though Al Gore and Bill Bradley spent months and months and months there, practically folding people's laundry, as the old "Saturday Night Live" sketch had it, only about 60,000 people voted. And what that said to some of the experts who work on politics out is, there simply weren't enough candidates out there beating the bushes, creating voters who were willing to come out on that cold night for the caucus.

And it costs a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. And those are two things that both Clark and Lieberman don't really have at this point.

DOBBS: The last polls I saw -- and you correct me with your later and I'm sure inside information, gentlemen -- showed Dean doing very well in Iowa, doing very well in New Hampshire. Is there a serious challenge to his leadership position right now, at least in those two states?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. I think Gephardt and Dean are running neck-and- neck in Iowa, because Gephardt has an issue, which is jobs and trade. He has an organizational base, which is organized labor. And he comes from a next-door state.

He won Iowa in 1988. It didn't do him a whole lot of good, now, did it? But he win Iowa. A lot of Democrats are looking to Gephardt to stop Dean or at least make him stumble in Iowa. I think the race is really ending up as Dean vs. some candidate called "Stop Dean.' It is not clear who that candidate is going to be at this point. But there are a lot of Democrats, particularly in the party establishment, who want to stop Dean, first because they're worried about whether he can beat Bush, and, second, because he goes around insulting Democrats.

He said, if he came to Washington, he would shine a spotlight on Congress and all the cockroaches would come crawling out of the dark. Members of Congress don't like that.

BROWNSTEIN: Lou, Iowa and New Hampshire are different places. New Hampshire is among the most upscale Democratic electorates you'll find anywhere in the country. About 60 percent of the voters there are college graduates.

Those are the sort of people that Howard Dean, like other outsider, reformer candidates before him, is appealing to very effectively. Iowa is different, though. It's more blue-collar. It's older. It's less affluent. And it's there that Dick Gephardt has more of a natural audience, not only on trade, but this argument he's been making lately, putting, I think, the first real dent into Howard Dean, by accusing him of standing with the Republicans on the Medicare confrontation and the budget confrontation in the mid-'90s.

DOBBS: We're just about out of time, but I've got to ask you this. Calling members of Congress cockroaches, running against the Democratic Party establishment, you both seem very assured that that's going to hurt Dean with voters. Is there any possibility it could be a positive, given what we saw in California?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHNEIDER: Running against the establishment often does work. And a lot of candidates have done this.

Look, Dean has a particular slice of the Democratic Party. I call it the yuppie vote, as Ron just described it, just like Tsongas and Dukakis and McGovern and other candidates have in the past. The problem is, he's not strong with blue-collar workers, union members, farmers, minorities. That's where he needs to show some strength.

DOBBS: Thank you, Bill.

Ron, you get the last 15 seconds.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going to say very quickly that running against the party establishment isn't a bad place to be right now, when so many rank-and-file Democrats are angry at the party and believe they didn't stand up to Bush strongly enough.

But, in the end, Lou, you have to consolidate a little bit of that. You have to reach out beyond that base, very liberal, angry base. He's going to have to reach out. The question is, as Bill said, can anyone consolidate the parts of the party that resist Dean? Because, right now, he has got the money. He's got the lead in Iowa and New Hampshire. He's the strongest. I think he has the best chance to have a ticket into the finals of this race.

DOBBS: Ron Brownstein, Bill Schneider, gentlemen, thank you very much.

That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: Is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and General Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of weakness for their campaigns, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the show.

Tonight's quote is from a former first lady on the Democratic presidential candidates -- and we quote -- "So far, they're a pretty sorry group, if you want to know my opinion. This is the world according to Barbara Bush, not George, not George H.W., not anybody" -- former first lady Barbara Bush.

Coming up next: House Minority Leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi joins us. She voted against the $86 billion proposal for Iraq. Congresswoman Pelosi, and Leader Pelosi, she joins us next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: A surprising decision by the Environmental Protection Agency over what is becoming an increasingly common fertilizer and a suspected cancer-causing chemical. The EPA now says it will not monitor sewage sludge for various forms of dioxin, because it says the health risk associated are so low.

Peter Viles is here and has the report for us -- Pete.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, more than half the sewage sludge produced in this country is now used as fertilizer, an amazing statistic. And environmentalists believe the federal government is just not doing enough to protect us from harmful chemicals in that sludge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES (voice-over): Industry groups like to call it biosolids, but it is sewage sludge. And under EPA guidelines, more than three million metric tons is spread on farmland every year.

But effective Friday, the EPA will no longer monitor sludge for dioxins, highly toxic chemicals that seep into sewage from various industrial uses. Environmental groups have been fighting the EPA's sludge policy since the 1980s and criticize the decision on dioxins.

NANCY STONER, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: The current cancer risk is estimated to be about one in 10,000. EPA usually regulates at one in a million. So we already have 100 times too much cancer risk from dioxin. The dioxin in sewage sludge is the second largest source of dioxin in the United States.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In its ruling, the EPA said levels of dioxins in sludge have declined since the late '80s. And even in the highest-risk groups, farm families that use sewage sludge to fertilize their fields and eat a diet mainly of their own crops, the dioxins in sludge would cause only one new cancer death every 300 years.

GEOFFREY GRUBBS, EPA: In the final analysis, we don't regulate for regulation's sake. We need to look at what the real risk to people is. And, in this case, as we look at the new cancer cases that could be caused by this particular source, if they were to be isolated, they are extremely small.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Now, the EPA does still require monitoring of levels of heavy metals in sewage sludge, including lead, arsenic and mercury, very appetizing. But, remember, the federal government itself doesn't do the monitoring. Your local and city government does it.

DOBBS: And making all of this highly suspect, Pete, is the fact that those local municipalities have to dispose of this sludge. And this, putting it on fertile -- this fertilizer, on farmland, is by far the cheapest solution for everyone.

VILES: Or, in some cases, they even make money doing it. So you have the cities and towns that have this sludge, have to do something it. They don't want any new regulation.

DOBBS: Because they're prescribed by the Clean Water Act from dumping it.

VILES: Sure. Right.

And you have the chemical industry that doesn't want anything new on paper, any regulations from the government that say, so many parts per trillion is bad, this way of dealing with dioxins. There is now no level that is good or bad. There's no level to be monitored.

DOBBS: Pete, thank you very much -- Peter Viles.

Turning to the heated debate over the safety of U.S. forces in Iraq now, President Bush is expected to sign the almost $87 billion reconstruction bill for Iraq and Afghanistan as early as this week.

Both houses of Congress approved a different version of the legislation last week. My next guest voted against it. She's House minority leader Nancy Pelosi. She's still waiting to hear how the White House spent the last $67 some odd million that Congress approved for Iraq. She said not enough of it was spent to make U.S. forces any safer in Iraq.

We're now joined by Minority Leader Pelosi from Washington, D.C., naturally.

Good to have you with us.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Was it a surprise to you that the $86 billion was approved by Congress, despite the opposition of the leadership, the Democratic leadership in both houses?

PELOSI: No surprise at all. We have a Republican president, a Republican Senate, and a Republican House of Representatives. There was some unrest and discomfort among our Republican colleagues with this package, because they know its shortcomings. But at the end of the day, they voted for it. So it was no surprise.

DOBBS: This issue of reconstruction, the amount of money that has been spent, you're asking for an accounting for the last $60 billion. To what end?

PELOSI: Well, Lou, when the president -- last spring in April, we appropriated $63 billion for Iraq. Over 400 members of Congress supported that. And then September 7, the president came forward with an $87 billion request. This is a huge amount of money on the heels of the $63 billion.

From the signs of it, what we could see, it looked like the $63 billion shortchanged our men and women in uniform and gave gold-plated no bid contracts to friends of the administration. So we wanted an accounting of that money, a justification of the $87 billion, neither which of we have received, and some accountability on the policy which went into post-war Iraq with no plan, with no plan.

And don't take my word for it. General Zinni (ph) said the level of sacrifice of the men and women in uniform is not matched by a level of planning for post-war Iraq.

DOBBS: And as you say this, minority leader, looking at the -- majority of the Democrats in the Senate actually voted for this legislation. A fairly even split but nonetheless, a majority voting against it in the House. But still a sizable number, more than 80 Democratic congressmen and women voting to support the legislation.

Does that concern you, that there is that apparent split in Democratic thinking right now on this issue?

PELOSI: The Senate bill is a different bill from the House...

DOBBS: Right.

PELOSI: ... as you know, because it treated the reconstruction money differently. We did not have that opportunity in the House.

In the House, the Democrats voted unanimously in support of our Democratic proposal, which would have put more money, $4.5 billion more in -- for the troops to protect them and to equip them to do their jobs, accomplish their mission and come home safely and soon. It also sent $7 billion immediately to Iraq and $7 billion to the World Bank to be capitalized at four to one to $28 billion for future needs on reconstruction. The president's office has told us -- in fact, they told us on September 7, the day of the speech that it was going to cost $50 billion to $75 billion more for reconstruction. So anticipating those additional costs, we thought we would internationalize them, instead of having our troops taking virtual all the risk and our taxpayers paying all of the bill.

As I understand it, they had a bifurcation in terms of the loans versus grants. We weren't allowed to do that in the House. I hope that in the conference committee, there will somebody reason that will prevail and say we have to do right by our troops to really equip them, to protect them, and not just use them to bring in an inflated reconstruction package which does not, again, internationalize the cost, Iraq-itize the initiatives and again, bring our troops home safely and soon.

DOBBS: When you took over as minority leader, you said that Democrats would never again enter an election year without a single message, one that -- in which everyone could unite. Are you feeling pretty good about the process of developing that message on behalf of your party?

PELOSI: Exactly what I said, Lou. And you're pretty good. You have it almost. It was that never again will Democrats go into a campaign where the public doesn't know who we are, what we stand for, how different we are from the Republicans, and what we are willing to fight for.

That we would, of course, present a positive message on economic growth, educating American people, protecting our environment, securing our country, and as well as preparing our children for the future.

DOBBS: Minority leader, the reason that I perhaps got pretty close to -- sometimes I have to honor time constraints here, the idea that we are watching nine candidates seeking your party's nomination, two of whom will not be in Iowa. Do you think that will be punishing to their chances?

PELOSI: Lou, I think that this year is unlike any other year. We always talk about these things on past assumptions and history and the rest. But I think -- witness what you just saw in California -- that times, they are a-changing and that the public will respond to candidates that -- that their message about what it means to them. And whether they ran into a particular primary or not is really not going to be that important to the majority of the voters in the country.

But I will say this, that the two campaigns are taking a risk not going into those early states.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, House minority leader, we thank you very much for being with us this evening.

PELOSI: Any one of them will be the next president of the United States. Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: With that forecast, we thank you again.

Exporting America tonight, the House Small Business Committee today held a hearing on a subject we have been reporting here for months: the growing number of highly skilled American jobs that are being exported overseas.

Committee chairman Don Manzullo called on Congress to strengthen buy American legislation, including a provision that would require the Pentagon and defense contractors to buy more American made equipment.

The panel heard testimony from U.S. industry officials and a former Silicon Valley engineer whose job was exported overseas. Congressman Manzullo will be my guest tomorrow night. We'll be coming to you from the nation's capital tomorrow evening when we hope you'll join us.

Coming up here next, remember the energy bill? My next guest does. In fact, he's still working on it. We'll be joined by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, Billy Tauzin. He joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Modernizing the power grid, building a natural gas pipeline from Alaska, the controversy over drilling. Just a few of the issues in the energy bill still being written in Congress and a measure gaining momentum after the summer's blackout that hit about 50 million people.

Joining us now with more on the future of this bill is one of the architects of it, Congressman Billy Tauzin, who's the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee.

Good to have you with us, Mr. Chairman.

REP. BILLY TAUZIN (R-LA), CHAIRMAN, ENERGY AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE: Good evening, Lou.

DOBBS: You hit a little bit of a last minute obstacle here. What's holding things up?

TAUZIN: The tax writers. In the middle of getting our energy conference completed, we have to get Chairman Grassley and Chairman Thomas together and finalize the tax incentive portions of the bill, since they represent the Finance and the Ways and Means Committee together.

They're busy writing the Medicare report. You know, Thomas is chairing the Medicare conference with Grassley, and I'm on that conference as well. So it's literally getting staff time and members' attention on the final pieces.

But I expect they'll get the tax work done this week. And sometimes early next week we'll be in a final conference meeting. DOBBS: And how much do you expect to see finalized in total incentives?

TAUZIN: Well, yes, I think they're looking at $16-18 billion as a total package within the bill. So that's smaller than -- much smaller than last year's -- the last Congress' version. Targeted more to specific elements of the bill that we think are critical to get either new fuels developed, to encourage, you know, renewables and encourage alternatives into the marketplace where we think those are, you know, likely to happen, not just to put on tax incentive for anything but to look for the things that are real and could happen.

DOBBS: The things that are real and could happen didn't 20 years ago. That is some fuels -- the development of alternate energy sources, the commitment on the part of this country, critics, and frankly supporters of the energy bill alike, lament. Is there anything that this bill that's going to assure us and mince research and development to provide for alternates to fossil fuels?

TAUZIN: Well, yes. I mean, the bill is riddled with all sorts of incentives such as the Freedom Corps initiative to create the hydrogen fuel cell car. As you know, the hybrids are now being produced by Detroit and other places in the world.

We want to see a pure hydrogen fuel cell one day. That means you've got to research how to produce hydrogen, how to get it in the marketplace, not only how to build a car. All of that is part of this bill, along with, I could say -- a quick example -- a lot more.

Remember what stopped us last time, Lou? Sheik Imani (ph) representing the Saudis and OPEC, decided that we'd gone too far with looking for alternative fuels. We had done too much exploration around the world outside of Saudi Arabia. And if you recall, they determined to overproduce and drop the price of oil, and they dropped it all the way down to $8 a barrel and demolished so many programs that were designed to produce alternatives.

As long as we are at risk of being so dependent upon the Saudis, we have a risk of that happening again. That's sad. That's why this bill contains not just conservation and alternative fuels and research and development, but it also contains some real incentives for more production here in this country.

DOBBS: We've squandered such amazing opportunities to reduce our dependence on foreign oil over the last 20 years. Is it your judgment that Americans can walk away after the Congress signs this legislation, puts it in front of the president and he signs it, with the idea that we're not going to see another waste of 20 years?

TAUZIN: I think not. I mean, when you see this bill in its entirety, Lou, it will hold the best promise for a comprehensive policy this country has ever seen. It will be the most comprehensive bill this Congress has ever voted on.

We voted on tax policies in the past. We voted on environmental policies that affected energy. But we never took a strong look at all the elements at one time. How to make sure the grids are adequate, how to make sure that there is enough power production in every region of the country, so that regional organizations form and we get real markets developed for utilities and power in this country.

How do you make sure that these alternative forms really hit the market? How do you incentivize wind energy and solar and make sure that net metering, for example, occurs? It does you no good to have people use these forms if they can't net meter back into the system.

All of these are part and parcel of this bill, along with the recognition that you also have to produce at home. If you don't produce at home, and you don't encourage conservation at home, your dependence on foreign sources inevitably grows.

DOBBS: Congressman Billy Tauzin, we thank you very much for being with us here tonight.

TAUZIN: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: A reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and General Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of weakness for their campaigns? We'll have the results coming right up.

Next, most kids his age are in junior high school, but this kid is already in medical school. Kitty Pilgrim reports on our series of special reports all this week, "America's Bright Future."

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Every night on this broadcast we focus on a number of issues, a number of problems and occasionally even tragic events that we all must deal with in this life. And sometimes lost is a perspective on much that is terrific about this country.

And for that reason this week we're focusing on a number of young people who are an important part of our future. We call this series of special reports "America's Bright Future." We focus this week on five remarkable young people who have accomplished, in a very few years, far more than most of us will accomplish in a lifetime.

Tonight, a 12-year-old who is studying to be a doctor. Kitty Pilgrim is here with his story -- Kitty.

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, we have all been in school with the bright kids, you know, the ones that get the A's effortlessly. But this child has set an academic pace that no one can believe.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM (voice-over): Meet Sho Yano. Yes, he is a musical prodigy, but that is not the full story. He was reading at the age of 2. His preschool I.Q. test was beyond measure. His mother and father met in the United States when they were students. His mother, Kyung, is Korean. His father, Katsura (ph), is Japanese.

Sho was born in Oregon. And as a toddler, he was reading anything could get his hands on, including science.

Schools couldn't keep up with him, so his mother devoted her days to home schooling him with the sister, Seiyuri (ph). But soon his mom couldn't keep up.

KYUNG YANO, SHO'S MOTHER: At age 1 and 2 like crazy. And I was telling Sho, Sho, slow down. Because I need the time to prepare.

PILGRIM: But as a true genius, Sho could not explain why it came so easy.

YANO: I would always try to solve some questions and he was to watch and he said, "Mom, I have better idea." And he already could solve it.

So, "Hey, how did you find out?"

He said, "I don't know. Just I know it. Just some kind of idea popped."

So I said, "Well, that's wonderful."

PILGRIM: Sho went to college when most children are finishing grade school. Then on to medical school, age 12.

But there's more.

(on camera) Here at the University of Chicago, Sho is in the medical program, but has also started his Ph.D.

(voice-over) He's combining the four-year medical program with a Ph.D. in medical research. He thinks he wants to pursue cancer research. The average age of medical students in this country, 24 years old.

SHO YANO, ATTENDING MEDICAL SCHOOL: I know I'm different from the rest of the kids. I feel it; they feel it too. But we're just fine. And when we're studying, we can ignore the age difference. When we're not studying, it doesn't really bother us.

PILGRIM: When other students will go on next year to work with patients, Sho will not. Not because he doesn't have the skills, but he looks so young. So he thinks he will continue his Ph.D. studies until he looks a little older.

His mother will stay with him every step of the way. After all, he is a child.

K. YANG: Do you feel cold? Oh, yes. PILGRIM: Sho's little sister is in the eighth grade. Seiyuri (ph) is also a musical prodigy in piano and violin. But they don't know which direction she will take.

Sho is philosophical about her deciding on a career.

S. YANO: It takes a long time to decide what you want to do in anyone.

PILGRIM: Twelve years, even.

S. YANO: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Sho says even now he still loves music. Although he had to scale back to concentrate on science and medicine, he still wants to squeeze in a class in musical composition. Lou, I have no doubt that he will absolutely be able to manage that.

DOBBS: What an amazing kid.

PILGRIM: He is astonishing. And I have met a lot of smart kids, but this boy is astonishing.

DOBBS: His sister is pretty good, too.

PILGRIM: His sister is doing fine.

DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much for bringing us the story. Thank you.

Tonight's thought is on physicians. Those 12-years-old aspiring to be and the men and women who care for all of us each day.

"Men who are occupied in the restoration of health to other men, by the joint exertion of skill and humanity, are above all the great of the earth. They even partake of divinity, since to preserve and renew is almost as noble as to create."

And that is for Sho, and for you, from French writer and philosopher Voltaire.

Tomorrow, in our special report, "America's Bright Future," we introduce you to a young prodigy on the violin who is also one of the world's youngest philanthropists. We'll have his story tomorrow night here. Please with be us.

Coming right up, your thoughts on illegal aliens, overpopulation and this country's precious natural resources. We'll be sharing some of your thoughts next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBB: The results of our poll is the withdrawal of Senator Lieberman and general Wesley Clark from the Iowa caucuses a sign of their weaknesses for their campaigns? Forty-four percent say yes. Fifty-six percent say no.

On Wall Street, stocks opened the week with modest gains, the Dow up 56, the NASDAQ up almost 13, the S&P up almost five.

Christine Romans is here with a market.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A little burst of buying late in the day, Lou. It was all stoked by another solid round of earnings reports.

A hundred-sixty-one S&P 500 companies have reported now, and they're showing profit growth of almost 17.6 percent -- almost 18 percent -- on revenue growth of 7 percent, the best quarter since the second quarter of 2000.

3M shares hit a record high, reported income up 22 percent. Revenue up 11 percent, and it raised its target.

Citigroup reported record profit, but those shares fell slightly.

And Texas Instruments profit and revenue rose after the bell. It's stock up three percent during the day; another seven percent right now. We'll watch it tomorrow.

Meanwhile, economists sharpening their pencils, Lou, raising third quarter growth forecasts. Six percent growth would be the fastest since 1999 when the economy grew 7.1 percent. And some economists say seven percent growth is not out of question for the third quarter.

They say, except for jobs creation, the economy was firing on all cylinders from July through September. You had a September leading economic indicator number today that fell slightly. They're saying that's probably just an aberration.

DOBBS: I believe it's also news when we start seeing real jobs being created, but seven percent is amazing. And if that's the case, then we're setting the stage for some real strong stocks.

ROMANS: That's the high end.

DOBBS: Mutual fund investigation?

ROMANS: Yes. Nothing new today except Morning Star advises people with Fred Alger funds to sell them.

DOBBS: All right. Well, that's worthy of note. Thanks a lot, Christine Romans.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

DOBBS: We take a look now at your thoughts.

From Big Rapids, Michigan, "Overpopulation, illegal aliens, pollution, outsourcing of jobs, and the shrinking middle class are the big issues facing Americans. Thank you, Lou, for bringing these issues to light and giving them the attention they deserve." That's from Gary Breitenstein.

From Los Cruces, New Mexico, "Our population numbers don't even begin to reflect the masses of illegal immigrants that openly live in our city. They live off of our tax dollars, free education, free medical care and free legal representation when they break our laws. And then they have the nerve to say they deserve civil rights! I'm a citizen and have to pay for these services for people who are illegally in our country. And when will our politicians stop using the word 'undocumented?' Illegal is the correct terminology."

That's from Carmen.

From Virginia, "Population growth is not only causing overcrowding but over consumption of our limited resources. How long until the resources are not enough to support the populace and civil war breaks out to control what is left? Not in my lifetime but perhaps my grandchildren?" That from M. Goin.

And from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, "Lou, keep up the good work and tell it like it is. I was especially touched by your 'Heroes' segment on Robert Acosta. If you could, just let him know that one more American says thank you."

Jeffrey Harrell, you just did. And we certainly thank him, as well.

We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.

That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us.

Tomorrow, join us for the first of our reporting from Washington, D.C. Our political round table joins me to talk about the latest headlines from Iraq to the race for the White House. Please with be us.

For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




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