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CNN Live Today
Toobin Discusses Muhammad, Bryant Cases
Aired October 20, 2003 - 10:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well here we are one year after a series of sniper killings terrorized the Washington, D.C. area. The trial is now underway this hour for one of the two suspects. The case is stoked with emotions and much of that will drive this morning's opening statements.
For more on the strategies of the trial as well as the Kobe Bryant case we brought in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeff, good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Daryn.
KAGAN: First let's look at the trial of John Allen Muhammad. As we said opening statements starting this hour. Want to look at the jury makeup, what you make of that.
TOOBIN: Well, Virginia is known generally as a pro-prosecution state. It has a big death row. Executions are much more common there than they are in virtually any state except Florida and Texas.
This part of Virginia is very heavily military, retired military, and the jury reflects that. It is probably a little better educated than maybe the average jury which is generally considered somewhat better for the defense -- but given a case of this magnitude and a crime this awful, there's really no such thing as a good defense jury. And I think this is pretty much an average jury, which means it's pretty good for the prosecution.
KAGAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this jury will have two decisions to make -- one guilty or not guilty. And the other if indeed guilty do you give the death penalty?
TOOBIN: And that's really important when the lawyers consider their strategy because from the defense perspective, you have to assume the worst. You have to assume you're going to be convicted. So you have to pitch your arguments in the guilt phase so that you don't taint what you say in the penalty phase.
For example, you don't want to make preposterous, absurd arguments so that they discredit you when it comes to the penalty phase. You don't want to be claiming there was some sinister outside force. There was some, you know, unknown gunman unless you really have evidence to back it up.
So one of the theories in a death penalty case is you have to be very careful in the guilt phase and maybe concede some points that you wouldn't concede if it wasn't a death penalty case so that you preserve your credibility for when it comes time to make the life or death decision.
KAGAN: Let's switch gears here, head west and talk Kobe Bryant. Do you think -- and I know this case is a tough one to call because there's already been some twists and turns. But is this just a formality? Is this one going to trial?
TOOBIN: Think it is. I really think if you look at what the standard is, the fact the prosecution put on evidence that the victim said there was a rape, that she said it was Kobe Bryant, basically that's really all the government needs.
However, from watching the case in court last week, it was pretty clear there are definitely problems in the prosecution's case. The defense made some important headway raising issues but those are issues for the trial not for the preliminary hearing.
I think it's a foregone conclusion that under Colorado law as they say the case will be bound over to district court and a trial date will be set in the next few months.
KAGAN: Yes, and when might that date be?
TOOBIN: Well that's actually pretty controversial because the -- Colorado has gone out of its way to say we want to treat Kobe Bryant like anyone else, but there is the issue out there of wanting the trial put off until the end of the season.
In fact, I think given the complexity of the case, given the number of motions, motions to suppress evidence, motions about expert witnesses, perhaps change of venue, the case will probably be pushed till after the season next summer.
But that's going to be an interesting issue to watch, whether his lawyers explicitly say they want the trial put off so Kobe can play the entire NBA season, including the playoffs.
TOOBIN: You must be a Lakers fan if you're already counting on the playoffs there.
TOOBIN: I'm a realist.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: They're loaded this year.
One little quick question here. There's a situation with mistaken medical records. The defense got the medical records of the accuser by accident from the hospital where she was treated.
TOOBIN: You know, I have to say watching the trial -- hearing unfold I was not terribly impressed by the prosecution, how well organized they were, the presentation of the case.
This is, you know, something that the government should be especially careful about. Medical records are of course extremely private. It's a mistake that can be remedied, but it is the kind of thing that makes you question whether the prosecution is as confident as they should be.
There's going to be a lot more things to watch. And you know the prosecution should clean up its act.
KAGAN: This coming from a former prosecutor himself.
TOOBIN: Absolutely.
KAGAN: Jeffrey, thank you for that. Jeffrey Toobin in New York City. Appreciate that.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 20, 2003 - 10:31 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well here we are one year after a series of sniper killings terrorized the Washington, D.C. area. The trial is now underway this hour for one of the two suspects. The case is stoked with emotions and much of that will drive this morning's opening statements.
For more on the strategies of the trial as well as the Kobe Bryant case we brought in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Jeff, good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Daryn.
KAGAN: First let's look at the trial of John Allen Muhammad. As we said opening statements starting this hour. Want to look at the jury makeup, what you make of that.
TOOBIN: Well, Virginia is known generally as a pro-prosecution state. It has a big death row. Executions are much more common there than they are in virtually any state except Florida and Texas.
This part of Virginia is very heavily military, retired military, and the jury reflects that. It is probably a little better educated than maybe the average jury which is generally considered somewhat better for the defense -- but given a case of this magnitude and a crime this awful, there's really no such thing as a good defense jury. And I think this is pretty much an average jury, which means it's pretty good for the prosecution.
KAGAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this jury will have two decisions to make -- one guilty or not guilty. And the other if indeed guilty do you give the death penalty?
TOOBIN: And that's really important when the lawyers consider their strategy because from the defense perspective, you have to assume the worst. You have to assume you're going to be convicted. So you have to pitch your arguments in the guilt phase so that you don't taint what you say in the penalty phase.
For example, you don't want to make preposterous, absurd arguments so that they discredit you when it comes to the penalty phase. You don't want to be claiming there was some sinister outside force. There was some, you know, unknown gunman unless you really have evidence to back it up.
So one of the theories in a death penalty case is you have to be very careful in the guilt phase and maybe concede some points that you wouldn't concede if it wasn't a death penalty case so that you preserve your credibility for when it comes time to make the life or death decision.
KAGAN: Let's switch gears here, head west and talk Kobe Bryant. Do you think -- and I know this case is a tough one to call because there's already been some twists and turns. But is this just a formality? Is this one going to trial?
TOOBIN: Think it is. I really think if you look at what the standard is, the fact the prosecution put on evidence that the victim said there was a rape, that she said it was Kobe Bryant, basically that's really all the government needs.
However, from watching the case in court last week, it was pretty clear there are definitely problems in the prosecution's case. The defense made some important headway raising issues but those are issues for the trial not for the preliminary hearing.
I think it's a foregone conclusion that under Colorado law as they say the case will be bound over to district court and a trial date will be set in the next few months.
KAGAN: Yes, and when might that date be?
TOOBIN: Well that's actually pretty controversial because the -- Colorado has gone out of its way to say we want to treat Kobe Bryant like anyone else, but there is the issue out there of wanting the trial put off until the end of the season.
In fact, I think given the complexity of the case, given the number of motions, motions to suppress evidence, motions about expert witnesses, perhaps change of venue, the case will probably be pushed till after the season next summer.
But that's going to be an interesting issue to watch, whether his lawyers explicitly say they want the trial put off so Kobe can play the entire NBA season, including the playoffs.
TOOBIN: You must be a Lakers fan if you're already counting on the playoffs there.
TOOBIN: I'm a realist.
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: They're loaded this year.
One little quick question here. There's a situation with mistaken medical records. The defense got the medical records of the accuser by accident from the hospital where she was treated.
TOOBIN: You know, I have to say watching the trial -- hearing unfold I was not terribly impressed by the prosecution, how well organized they were, the presentation of the case.
This is, you know, something that the government should be especially careful about. Medical records are of course extremely private. It's a mistake that can be remedied, but it is the kind of thing that makes you question whether the prosecution is as confident as they should be.
There's going to be a lot more things to watch. And you know the prosecution should clean up its act.
KAGAN: This coming from a former prosecutor himself.
TOOBIN: Absolutely.
KAGAN: Jeffrey, thank you for that. Jeffrey Toobin in New York City. Appreciate that.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
