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American Morning

Hard Lessons

Aired October 22, 2003 - 07:46   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Sending students to the principal's office is a well-worn method teachers have used to try and keep kids in line. But at a Philadelphia, a south Philly high school, the students are not the ones who are getting the hard lessons on discipline -- rather, the teacher is.
David Pitone sent some of the unruly students to the principal's office, only to have them sent right back. The school says he did not follow procedures. Pitone then went to court to defend his right to eject unruly students, but then lost in court. Now, he says he may quit his post there.

David Pitone joins me now to talk about his experience. Good morning to you, David. Nice to see.

DAVID PITONE, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Hi, Bill.

HEMMER: Also from Philadelphia, Creg Williams, the school's deputy chief academic officer. Good morning to you there, Creg, too. We'll get to you in a moment here.

But first, we want to get the story from David's point of view. How unruly were they in your classroom?

PITONE: Very disruptive, constant back talk...

HEMMER: How so?

PITONE: Back talk on reinstruction, cursing, threatening cursing, fights. If you went in there, you would be shocked.

HEMMER: And how many days were you a teacher?

PITONE: Two and a half.

HEMMER: Two and a half days...

PITONE: Yes.

HEMMER: ... and this happened. Did you understand the procedures at school in place for sending kids to the principal's office?

PITONE: Well, it was explained to me by other teachers that this four-part form, I fill out part one on the first warning, then part two on the second. And then, I call security, and they can't take the student out without these two parts filled out. So, I gave them to security. Security then took the students out and removed them. So then, they were returned back, and I was told I couldn't do it.

HEMMER: What was your reaction when they came back to class?

PITONE: I refused to take them back in.

HEMMER: Well, the school district says that you are a new teacher, relatively inexperienced. Do they have a point that you did not quite understand how to deal with some of the problems you may encounter?

PITONE: Yes, well, I'm in a program that there were promises. We were supposed to have mentors from the school helping us every day. We were supposed to have a teacher in the classroom with us for the first few days. We were supposed to be orientated on procedures before we even went into the classroom. None of those things happened. My only recourse to try to teach the students that really wanted to learn was to remove the few students.

HEMMER: Let's go down to Philadelphia right now and bring in Creg Williams about this. What about the procedures in place there? What does the school have set up in terms of timeliness when it comes to discipline? It sounds like it's a process right here. Why not just take care of it immediately?

CREG WILLIAMS, SCHOOL DISTRICT DEP. CHIEF ACADEMIC OFFICER: Well, we do have a process in place, where we make sure that students who create disciplinary infractions in schools are dealt with. Our district probably has one of the toughest disciplinary policies in the country. We have a very tough zero-tolerance discipline policy, and we do not, in fact, condone students acting out.

HEMMER: The point here, Creg, from David is that teachers should have the right to discipline their kids. How do you respond to that?

WILLIAMS: Teachers do have the right to discipline kids. However, teachers have to follow the process that's in place to discipline their children. Mr. Pitone, who was a brand new teacher in our school district, did not give himself an opportunity to follow any process. He worked for a day. He refused to sign in on that day he came to work. He refused to follow processes. He refused to teach the district's curriculum. There are a lot of things that he could have done to prevent the kind of mismanagement that occurred in his classroom and could have given himself the opportunity to follow policy.

HEMMER: How do you respond to that, David?

PITONE: Well, let's just say for the sake of argument, out of the 12,000 teachers, I'm the worst teacher, but nonetheless I'm responsible for my classroom. And I -- but my methods aren't great, but I have been hired, and I'm in there and I'm responsible. What if I do have a problem one day? My methods aren't great, but I have a problem that's getting highly disruptive. I feel like it's an emergency situation. If I call to have a student removed, I'm going to be disciplined. If I kept the student in, there could be harm. That was the basis of my suit. I felt like this was an emergency. I didn't want to wait another day. I wanted some kind of support from the administration that day.

HEMMER: Quickly. The courts have turned you down so far. Are you going to keep teaching? Will you resign? What happens?

PITONE: Well, I was going to dismiss the case, but I've been getting so many calls from teachers and there have been a substantial teacher interest in joining with the suit. I've been getting calls about donations. I wouldn't be surprised if we had 1,000 teachers join in on the suit.

HEMMER: David Pitone, thanks for spending time with from south Philadelpha. Creg Williams, thanks again also to you down in Philly for sharing your part of the story also.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired October 22, 2003 - 07:46   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Sending students to the principal's office is a well-worn method teachers have used to try and keep kids in line. But at a Philadelphia, a south Philly high school, the students are not the ones who are getting the hard lessons on discipline -- rather, the teacher is.
David Pitone sent some of the unruly students to the principal's office, only to have them sent right back. The school says he did not follow procedures. Pitone then went to court to defend his right to eject unruly students, but then lost in court. Now, he says he may quit his post there.

David Pitone joins me now to talk about his experience. Good morning to you, David. Nice to see.

DAVID PITONE, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Hi, Bill.

HEMMER: Also from Philadelphia, Creg Williams, the school's deputy chief academic officer. Good morning to you there, Creg, too. We'll get to you in a moment here.

But first, we want to get the story from David's point of view. How unruly were they in your classroom?

PITONE: Very disruptive, constant back talk...

HEMMER: How so?

PITONE: Back talk on reinstruction, cursing, threatening cursing, fights. If you went in there, you would be shocked.

HEMMER: And how many days were you a teacher?

PITONE: Two and a half.

HEMMER: Two and a half days...

PITONE: Yes.

HEMMER: ... and this happened. Did you understand the procedures at school in place for sending kids to the principal's office?

PITONE: Well, it was explained to me by other teachers that this four-part form, I fill out part one on the first warning, then part two on the second. And then, I call security, and they can't take the student out without these two parts filled out. So, I gave them to security. Security then took the students out and removed them. So then, they were returned back, and I was told I couldn't do it.

HEMMER: What was your reaction when they came back to class?

PITONE: I refused to take them back in.

HEMMER: Well, the school district says that you are a new teacher, relatively inexperienced. Do they have a point that you did not quite understand how to deal with some of the problems you may encounter?

PITONE: Yes, well, I'm in a program that there were promises. We were supposed to have mentors from the school helping us every day. We were supposed to have a teacher in the classroom with us for the first few days. We were supposed to be orientated on procedures before we even went into the classroom. None of those things happened. My only recourse to try to teach the students that really wanted to learn was to remove the few students.

HEMMER: Let's go down to Philadelphia right now and bring in Creg Williams about this. What about the procedures in place there? What does the school have set up in terms of timeliness when it comes to discipline? It sounds like it's a process right here. Why not just take care of it immediately?

CREG WILLIAMS, SCHOOL DISTRICT DEP. CHIEF ACADEMIC OFFICER: Well, we do have a process in place, where we make sure that students who create disciplinary infractions in schools are dealt with. Our district probably has one of the toughest disciplinary policies in the country. We have a very tough zero-tolerance discipline policy, and we do not, in fact, condone students acting out.

HEMMER: The point here, Creg, from David is that teachers should have the right to discipline their kids. How do you respond to that?

WILLIAMS: Teachers do have the right to discipline kids. However, teachers have to follow the process that's in place to discipline their children. Mr. Pitone, who was a brand new teacher in our school district, did not give himself an opportunity to follow any process. He worked for a day. He refused to sign in on that day he came to work. He refused to follow processes. He refused to teach the district's curriculum. There are a lot of things that he could have done to prevent the kind of mismanagement that occurred in his classroom and could have given himself the opportunity to follow policy.

HEMMER: How do you respond to that, David?

PITONE: Well, let's just say for the sake of argument, out of the 12,000 teachers, I'm the worst teacher, but nonetheless I'm responsible for my classroom. And I -- but my methods aren't great, but I have been hired, and I'm in there and I'm responsible. What if I do have a problem one day? My methods aren't great, but I have a problem that's getting highly disruptive. I feel like it's an emergency situation. If I call to have a student removed, I'm going to be disciplined. If I kept the student in, there could be harm. That was the basis of my suit. I felt like this was an emergency. I didn't want to wait another day. I wanted some kind of support from the administration that day.

HEMMER: Quickly. The courts have turned you down so far. Are you going to keep teaching? Will you resign? What happens?

PITONE: Well, I was going to dismiss the case, but I've been getting so many calls from teachers and there have been a substantial teacher interest in joining with the suit. I've been getting calls about donations. I wouldn't be surprised if we had 1,000 teachers join in on the suit.

HEMMER: David Pitone, thanks for spending time with from south Philadelpha. Creg Williams, thanks again also to you down in Philly for sharing your part of the story also.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.