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CNN Larry King Live

Interview With Ed, Lois Smart

Aired October 28, 2003 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Elizabeth Smart's parents, Ed and Lois Smart, live for the hour with your phone calls. They'll answer your questions about their daughter's terrifying nine-month ordeal and what they went through between her abduction and miraculous recovery.
Ed and Lois Smart. A revealing, emotional hour next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Ed and Lois Smart are both with us in New York. Also with us in New York is Nancy Grace, the host of "Closing Arguments" on Court TV. We'll be calling on Nancy with some questions and she may have some for the Smarts as well.

Before we talk with them, let's show you a little video taken tonight of the Smarts, enjoying, along with their daughter Elizabeth dinner in New York City. There you see a very happy and relaxed Elizabeth Smart eating dinner this evening and, we trust, having a good time. We'll ask them how things go, of course, and cover lots of bases in a moment.

And then the other day, we were in -- boy, they are a good- looking family. The other day we sent our crew to the Smart home in Salt Lake City, and we caught Elizabeth doing the thing she loves to do the best, playing the harp. Watch.

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KING: Elizabeth Smart was abducted from the bedroom she shared with her younger sister, Mary Katherine, June 5, 2002 and she was recovered on the streets of Salt Lake City in the company of Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee on March 12, 2003.

Ed, why are you -- why are you doing this? Why are you coming out now, putting Elizabeth on in a couple of shows, writing a book -- why?

ED SMART, ELIZABETH SMART'S FATHER: Well, you know, originally, we had so many people ask us to help them with book deals or they were going to do book deals or movies and, I mean, the morning after Elizabeth came home this started happening. And it was so intrusive that it finally came to a point -- well, if we don't go forward and do something, somebody else is going to. And we just felt like, you know, we really do want to tell our story and let people know what we went through.

LOIS SMART, ELIZABETH SMART'S MOTHER: But there was so much misinformation out there, too, that we wanted to clear that up.

KING: And, also, Lois, a television play about this, right? That you...

L. SMART: Yes.

KING: I mean, you endorsed or participated in, right?

L. SMART: Yes.

KING: And then on a couple of interviews you let Elizabeth go on briefly. Was that a difficult decision, Ed?

E. SMART: Well, you know, I think that that started out as just being, you know -- they were going to be introduced and say, Hi and it went further than that. But, you know, Elizabeth really is in charge of her life and she is the one that says yes or no and she is -- you know, I think one of the most important things as parents that we are able to do for her is to help her know that she is in charge of her life and that she can go forward.

You know, where her life was taken from her for nine months and she was held hostage and held in such a, you know, horrible situation, giving her the power to make choices and decisions is very important.

KING: The cover of the book we just showed is "Bringing Elizabeth Home." It is published by Doubleday. The subtitle is "A Journey of Faith and Hope." There you see its cover. By Ed and Lois Smart. Written with Laura Morton. Obviously a writer you could trust, right?

(CROSSTALK)

L. SMART: Yes. Yes, she did. And we worked a long time on it but she got it right.

KING: OK. How -- Lois, if you would look a little to your left, because you;re looking at your wrong camera.

L. SMART: OK.

KING: Because Ed's looking at the right at the right camera and Lois -- it looks just distracting.

L. SMART: OK.

KING: Lois, how -- how is Elizabeth doing?

L. SMART: She's doing wonderful. And, she's excelling this school, is an accomplished harpist, has lot of friends. She just had a birthday party Saturday, just last Saturday to celebrate her 16th birthday, and 70 of her friends were in our home so she's doing fantastic. KING: Ed, it's obvious this was very traumatic. I mean, that goes without saying. Is she getting psychological help?

E. SMART: Absolutely. We have been giving her help ever since, you know -- the day she got home we arranged to get some help and, you know, I just am so happy with the way she's moving forward.

KING: How traumatized was she initially?

E. SMART: You know, when I think of how traumatized, I think of when I walked into that room and I saw her sitting there on the sofa and I think that we both went into shock because I think on her part, she thought, Is this ordeal really coming an end? Am I really going to be safe again? And on my part, I looked there and I saw a daughter who had changed so much. She had grown up and matured so much that I just -- it looked like her but I mean, inside, I just kind of thought, you know, can this really be true? Are we really at the end of trying to find her?

KING: Because you realized the odds were way against you?

E. SMART: Oh, statistically, she was dead.

KING: Yes. Yes. In the book, Lois, you write that Elizabeth exhibited some of the traits of the Stockholm Syndrome. That's to endorse the views of your captor. But unlike most victims, she never bonded. How do you explain that?

L. SMART: Well, for instance, he had her keep a diary, a daily diary, and he would tell her things to put in this diary. But she had the presence of mind -- I mean, she never completely had control over her because she was writing in French at the bottom of this diary saying how much she hated being there, hated this person, and did not believe anything he said.

E. SMART: And loved her family.

KING: Yes. Good point.

Have you become, Ed -- it would be logical if you have -- extremely, overly protective?

E. SMART: You know, Elizabeth like any young woman, is very anxious to have her own freedom. And we are anxious to let her be in charge. But, yes, we are. I mean, the day we let her go to school to check out the schools that she was considering going back to, it was just like, you know, can I -- can I stand to let her go again? What's going to happen? You know, will she be back? Will somebody try something? And, yes, it was very difficult.

And she's back in school. She's just doing wonderfully. And, you know, I think that we have learned that we don't want her going anywhere by herself. I mean, somebody needs to be with her so that we don't need to --

L. SMART: But that's with all our children. E. SMART: Yes, all of our children are that way. I mean, it's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

KING: Do you have, Lois, security concerns now? Are you overly -- do you have protection at the house? Do you have private detectives? Are you that concerned?

L. SMART: No. We do not have private detectives. But we do have a security system that works. All our doors are beeping and let us know when somebody comes in and out of the doors. We have two dogs, one inside and one outside. And I think we feel all comfortable and safe in our home. It's a good place to be.

KING: Ed, were there any thoughts to selling the house and moving somewhere else?

E. SMART: That's a daily issue. We are up and down on that so we just, you know, we're going to take it -- take one day at a time. And, if we're to a point where we do decide to sell, I mean, certainly, we have considered that and we may do that.

KING: And do you at all have any qualms about bringing all of this forward? You know, putting Elizabeth in the limelight? A lot of people might say, Let's forget -- let's just disappear.

E. SMART: You know, and I think we do want to disappear. I think that, yes, we have brought this forward. We have done this because, you know, somebody was going to do it if we didn't. And we felt like, you know, we should represent what happened and to, you know, tell from our perspective instead of somebody's perspective that was not there and did not go through it and that's really the reason why. And, you know, you just can't even begin to imagine how many people were there helping and trying to help. And we're just so thankful to each one of them.

KING: We're going to go to break. We'll bring Nancy Grace in in the next segment. She may have some questions. And then we'll be going to a lot of calls tonight for the Smarts.

The book is "Bringing Elizabeth Home." As we go to break, here's more of this very attractive young lady playing the harp in her house.

We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Your calls will be included, of course. The is "Bringing Elizabeth Home."

The guests are Ed and Lois Smart. Also with us is Nancy Grace, frequently on this show.

She'll be on tomorrow night when we start covering the Peterson preliminary hearing.

Nancy do you have a question for Ed and Lois?

NANCY GRACE, COURT TV: I do. I do. Larry, and I have been studying this case for so long. I was wondering, that night, June 5 when Mary Catherine came into your room and said Elizabeth is gone. And then started looking for her and couldn't find her, what did you in your room, trying to rationalize it, what did you think happened to her?

L. SMART: Well, I think initially, we didn't believe she was gone. She had just moved out of the bedroom and had gone down to the sofa or something. It never crossed our mind that she would have been kidnapped.

GRACE: When did it finally sink in Elizabeth is gone?

L. SMART: When I saw the screen is cut.

GRACE: Did it kill you when you were here on television speculating, the screen was cut from the inside and as if you had cut the screen yourself?

L. SMART: Yes.

GRACE: Did it torture you to watch television?

L. SMART: Of course, of course. That's why we didn't. I couldn't. There was so much misinformation going out, and people speculating as to what happened. I know Elizabeth. I carried her inside of me for nine months. I knew what kind of girl she was. She didn't run away. She didn't have a boyfriend. She wasn't having trouble at home, you know.

GRACE: Or at school.

L. SMART: Or at school. That's right.

KING: Ed, in that regard, Ed for the longest period of time when we asked you about your younger daughter said to you about the identity or the drawing, you refrained from discussing it. Was that on police orders?

E. SMART: Well, you know, initially, when Mary Catherine came in and we discovered that Elizabeth was kidnapped, you know, we just had a very, very brief idea of what happened. We did not know the full details. The police were very good about taking her and sequestering her so that, you know, her story wouldn't be corrupted. And so, we did not know for the first probably week really what happened. And, then it came forward that, you know, initially, I thought that she was directly threatened, and she hadn't been. She was pretending to be asleep there. So I didn't know. And then there were a number of things that the police felt would be important to keep to ourselves, and at that point in time, they didn't want us to come forward with them.

KING: And eventually, she did have the right identity, did she not.

E. SMART: She did. You know, I don't know that you could say that the description that she gave was a description of Brian Mitchell because the description did not include the beard. It did not include a number of things. And, but, you know, the one thing that stayed with Mary Catherine is she recognized that voice which is totally amazing to me. Because she was exposed to him for maybe three, three minutes at the most, you know. And hearing a person's voice for such a short time, it's hard to imagine that that could be familiar. You know, in Lois, in our minds, we feel that it was nothing more than a gift from god that...

KING: I know you do -- Nancy.

GRACE: Yes. I was just wondering when you look back on all of this now in retrospect, what is your most vivid memory of her disappearance?

L. SMART: I think when we first realized that it was, in fact, true that she was gone and that screen that was cut. And then that first night because I think we were in such disbelief that it could really have happened. And we kept thinking, she'll be back tonight. They are going to find her. She's going to come home. So that first night, well, I mean, they were all torturous but that first was terrible.

GRACE: So the first night is your vivid memory of pain. But what was a typical day like for you?

We didn't see you for days sometimes.

What was a day like, your ordinary day during her absence?

L. SMART: Well, because of the other five children, I had to carry on being their mother. I had to cook meals. I had to do their laundry. I had to get them ready for school and take them to their music lessons and their soccer games and things. And so I had to carry on. But there wasn't a moment that passed that I did not have her in my mind. I my mind thoughts, in my prayers and in my heart. And I think every single night we sobbed for hours.

KING: Did you get a lot of flack, Ed, over the fact of the two daughters slept together?

Was there any -- did anybody care about that?

E. SMART: You know, I have heard some comments about it but it doesn't matter. I mean, the two girls love each other and they're just happy. And now, of course, Elizabeth thinks she's too grown up to be sharing a room.

KING: Of course. E. SMART: But they have just a wonderful relationship. And, you know, what was was and I didn't ever see any problem with it. So, you know, it's a moot point.

KING: I slept with my brother, too. I didn't have any problems.

L. SMART: Me, too, Larry, my sister.

KING: I don't know what it means. Any ways, we'll take a break and come back and your calls in a little while. Nancy will more questions, we'll have more question, and you'll have lots of questions. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Before we get back with the Smarts and Nancy Grace, John Walsh broke the news about Emmanuel, Emmanuel is Mr. Mitchell, on this program here. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": But their young daughter has now said that she believes that Ricci wasn't the guy in there that night, that it may have been another guy that did some work on their roof, an itinerate guy that worked at a homeless shelter, and he may be a suspect in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Mr. Smart, you write that, "at the time we were shocked that he had shared this information so quickly and without our knowing that he had planned to do so." But then in hindsight, it was a blessing. It set us on a course that would ultimately bring Elizabeth home." It's been reported you were furious with Walsh about going public. Is that true or not true?

E. SMART: That is not true.

L. SMART: No, that is not true.

E. SMART: John is one of my best friends. He is an advocate for children. There's nobody out there that can beat John Walsh as far as being an advocate for children. And we had talked in his studio in the green room and I had said, now, can I talk to you in confidence? And so it was a surprise that it came out, but I was not furious. And I, in fact, that was one of the turning points in the case, because we were having a very hard time moving forward between the police and other issues. Coming forward with that description. And, coming out that night actually pushed us into having to do that. And, John is...

L. SMART: It was a blessing.

E. SMART: It was a very -- a tremendous blessing.

KING: Lois, did you think it was poor, hopeless, innocent Mr. Ricci? L. SMART: Did I ever think that?

KING: That he was involved?

L. SMART: Yes. There were times when I think we did think that Richard possibly knew something about it, or -- or -- yes. Knew something about it, because of things that we had heard that he had talked to his other friends and they wanted to come back and rob our home and he had stolen from us. So it wasn't that, you know, I mean, he wouldn't clear himself, and so, yes. We did feel that he was involved.

KING: Nancy, I'll have a question too for you. But do you have another one for the Smarts?

GRACE: I do. Something you brought up, Larry. Regarding Mary Catherine coming forward, in my mind, she did better than a description. She had a name. Emmanuel. And I was just wondering, I know that there was a delay from the time she gave you the name until you went public with a sketch of Emmanuel, who we now know to be Brian David Mitchell. Why the lag of a couple of months?

E. SMART: Well, for one thing, I mean, the police were working very diligently trying to follow up tail ends on Richard Ricci, and they wanted to complete that. But they also had taken Andrew, my son, and Charles, my son, and worked on composite drawings with them over the next few weeks. And when we saw -- when I saw those composite drawings, I thought they don't even look close to what Brian David Mitchell...

GRACE: Emmanuel looked like.

E. SMART: Yes. And I just thought, you know, at one point in time I called Corey Lyman (ph) up, who I truly do respect a lot of the police force. I just think they really worked hard, but I said -- I called Corey (ph) up and I said, Corey (ph), when are we going to go forward with this? Because, you know, we have got to do it. I couldn't live with myself.

GRACE: Knowing that name...

E. SMART: If I didn't follow up on this possibility. And truly, I mean, when you look at the circumstances, Mary Catherine remembering this Emmanuel. And it was a -- what, five minutes' exposure. How is some little girl going to come forward with that name? I mean, it was a miracle.

GRACE: Well, the other thing I wanted to ask Lois is I read in the book and I had heard this that Elizabeth wanted to take you to the spot where she had been tied to a tree, living down in a hole in the dirt. What went through your mind when you saw the way your baby had been living?

L. SMART: The conditions were terrible, as you can imagine. I mean, maybe once a week she'd have a bucket of cold water poured over her head, and, you know, food. I think she lived off of bread and water every day. And so, it was a terrible hurtful feeling that I had to live with, but when I asked her, I said, Elizabeth, how do you feel? How does this make you feel coming back here now? And when she said, I feel triumphant, my heart was singing.

GRACE: Did you cry in front of her?

L. SMART: Yes. .

KING: Nancy, is this a case that can be -- how's it going to be pled? Could it be plea bargained, this case? I mean, what could the defense possibly be?

GRACE: Well, I see, clearly, they're going to try an insanity defense, because there is going to be a rock solid identification, there is tons of forensic evidence pointing to them. So they can't really say I didn't do it, and especially since Brian David Mitchell's original defense was, she's my wife. So he's made a lot of incriminating statements. I foresee an insanity defense, or them trying to get one to roll over on the other, probably Barzee, testifying against Mitchell. I think they should both go to trial for the max -- they don't need to take a plea.

And that's another thing, Larry. I heard, and this could have been misinformation, that you guys did not want to go forward with a trial, that you didn't want Elizabeth to testify. Is that true?

E. SMART: You know, we do not want to have anymore exposure for Elizabeth than she has to go through, because we feel like she's gone through a lot, but certainly we want a trial to go forward. We do want to see justice. We would never want to see another family go through what we've been through.

KING: And of course, she would have to testify, right, Nancy? Obviously she would have to testify.

GRACE: Right. Because they would have the right to cross- examine her under the Constitution's Sixth Amendment right to confrontation. But Larry, as a trial strategy tactic, I don't see any defense attorney being rough with Elizabeth. But they will cross- examine.

KING: We'll take a break and come back. We'll start to include your phone calls. Nancy Grace remains with us. We are with Ed and Lois Smart, the parents of abducted and now recovered teenager Elizabeth Smart. The new book that also tells you a lot about the strong faith they have and their belief in their faith, in "Bringing Elizabeth Home: A Journey of Faith and Hope." We're be back with your calls right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. SMART: We feel the prayers that are coming from people and we know it's by this that Elizabeth is going to return to us. We want her home. We really want her home.

L. SMART: And Elizabeth, if you can hear us, we love you, Elizabeth. We haven't forgotten, and everybody wants you back, and we won't stop until you're home.

E. SMART: It's real! It's real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so, so very glad that this has a happy ending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Ed and Lois Smart and Nancy Grace. The book is "Bringing Elizabeth Home," as we show you the Smart family enjoying dinner tonight in New York City with a wide choice of restaurants, as you might well gather.

Let's go to calls for the Smarts, a very happy family. "Bringing Elizabeth Home" is the book.

Pleasant Grove, Utah, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Larry?

KING: Hi.

CALLER: Yes. Hello to Brother and Sister Smart and especially Elizabeth. My question is, for Elizabeth, when you were first...

KING: Elizabeth isn't here, dear.

CALLER: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought she was.

KING: No.

CALLER: OK. Maybe the Smarts know the answer to this.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: When she was first spotted in Sandy, the comment was, I'm not that Elizabeth Smart girl that you're looking for. Do they know why Elizabeth made that comment and what her thinking process was? And what she was feeling?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: Absolutely.

You have to think that for nine months -- the first two months she was cabled. She could not go anywhere. She was threatened. She was intimidated. And she was basically put in a position where if she was to survive, she had to do what they said. That isn't saying that she gave over in her mind to them. But she -- she didn't know who was Brian's friends out there, whether they were going to come and kill us. And she was -- she didn't know who to trust. And so, I think that she was in this mode where, you know, she had to just keep going forward. Nobody identified her. Nobody came up to her during those nine months. L. SMART: But I also think it was -- I mean, she was right under our nose. And nobody could identify her. I mean, she went right down into the city. She mingled with the people down there. And nobody knew who she was. And so, to give up that -- I mean, it was like it happened that way for nine months. Why would it happen all of a sudden, you know, that these places -- what if they didn't take them or what would happen if, you know, she had to go back to them. And so it was a constant worry that her family would be hurt or she would be hurt.

KING: And by the way, did -- Ed, during those times there were rewards offered. Did that person who spotted them get that reward, Ed?

E. SMART: I believe so. I had nothing to do with the reward. The chief of the police and the mayor, Rocky Anderson, both worked together and got those rewards out.

KING: Nancy, Patty Hearst was on this show right after Elizabeth was found and she said -- Patty Hearst said -- it was crucial to get someone to protect Elizabeth's best interests in the legal process; that while police and prosecutors may care about Elizabeth, their first priority getting a conviction. Someone has to care about Elizabeth.

Did you agree with that?

GRACE: Yes, I do. But the first priority of the prosecutor is to seek justice. And that, in my mind, from what I can tell from Elizabeth's own mouth, will be the convictions of Mitchell and Barzee. So that is where the state is headed to seek justice.And as far as an attorney representing Elizabeth at trial, it would be a civil attorney that would really not have a standing to object during a jury trial.

So, yes, I can see them protecting her interests. But in a criminal trial, they don't have a leg to stand on, basically.

Larry, you asked regarding why Elizabeth first said, I'm not Elizabeth Smart. Larry, out of every rape case, every child kidnapping case I have ever handled, the child is so conditioned. That is why they don't come forward and tell their parents. They're too afraid. And this is not uncommon.

KING: Albany, Oregon, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I wondered if the Smarts have any kinds of plan for the profit made from the book. Is there a charity or anything involved?

And I also just wanted to say, You must be so proud of your daughters. I mean, both of them. It just seems like Elizabeth has just reacted so incredibly well and is so strong.

KING: Lois, the profits from the book. Any plans?

L. SMART: Yes, we do. We are going to give some to charities and -- yes.

KING: Ed, you write -- before I take the next call -- faith is very important in this book, right? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Did you ever doubt it?

E. SMART: You know, there were definitely times where I didn't know -- when I didn't know if she was alive or not. I mean, there were doubts. But I kept on having a reaffirmation that she was out there and that we needed to go forward.

KING: Ever doubts about your faith?

E. SMART: No. I mean, we're not...

KING: Really?

E. SMART: We're not perfect, but I truly -- I mean, both Lois and I together have felt very strongly that the only thing that got us through was God -- was the Lord.

KING: Ashtabula, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: How are you?

KING: Fine.

CALLER: It's a pleasure speaking with all of you. My questions are two briefly (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

First of all, does the police department or the D.A.'s office keep you informed about anything that's going on with these people legally? And, because of the fact that they took Elizabeth out of her home, will this be tried in a federal court? And I thank you very much and it truly is a pleasure speaking with you.

KING: Second part's for Nancy. First part for the Smarts. Ed?

E. SMART: Well, you know, I know that Elizabeth -- I'm sorry. Blank that one.

KING: The question was, do the police and the prosecutors keep in touch with you as to the progress?

E. SMART: Yes. They do. We also have some very good friends in the media -- Ben, thank you -- that help us. And we're -- you know, we do stay informed. But the media helps us, as well as anyone does.

KING: Is this a federal kidnapping trial or a state trial, Nancy?

GRACE: It will be a state trial. Of course, the feds very often step in and do a kidnapping. But state authorities can do a kidnapping, as well. And the reason I think this will be only a state trial is for what they call judicial economy. Bottom line, they don't want to put Elizabeth through testifying twice at state level and at federal level. So there will be one trial.

KING: Hempstead, New York, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Good evening.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: It's such a pleasure to say hello to the Smarts. They're a wonderful family.

KING: They are.

CALLER: And the question is, since their gorgeous, wonderful daughter has been returned to the wonderful family and the whole family, has their faith increased?

L. SMART: Yes, it has. Yes, it's increased tremendously. I mean, the only way we can look at this is that it truly was a miracle from God and that prayers are answered. Our prayers were answered.

KING: There's some wonderful pictures in this book, one of which was a Christmas card that we have a color picture of that we're going to show you. This card was, as I understand it, never sent. I'll ask about this.

But this is Christmas 2002. The family Christmas photo taken, leaving space for Elizabeth. There you see where she would have been. The Smart children wrote letters to missing Elizabeth as a Christmas wish. The family got back the true meaning of the Holloway -- the holiday.

The card was never sent, Ed?

E. SMART: No, it wasn't. We just couldn't send one out last year. But, you know, there were so many wonderful people out there that we would, you know, thank over and over again. And, you know, it wasn't our prayers just being answered. There were so many prayers that were offered and we're so grateful to everyone for all that they did on Elizabeth's behalf and on our behalf.

And, you know, we just -- I think that is what really made us feel so strongly about going forward with the Amber Alert. Because here we had the nation behind us. We had so many prayers. And there are so many children that don't have this support. And there needs to be some type of help out there. And John has been such a huge advocate for missing children. And has pushed so hard in bringing legislation about and it was a honor to be with him and to share in this wonderful moment.

KING: We'll take a break and be back with more calls for Nancy Grace and Ed and Lois Smart. They're the authors of "Bringing Elizabeth Home."

Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. SMART: I'm asking you and pleading with whoever has her that I -- that I would do anything to have her back in my arms. And please, realize how much she's missed. She's missed tremendously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Ed Smart, a question came in and didn't get the call through, but the question was good.

As a Christian, as a believer, what do you think the punishment should be?

E. SMART: You know, I feel like he should not see the light of day again. I just -- I would be so concerned that he would be out there doing the same thing again trying to kidnap other children, that I just -- I hope that he never gets back out on the street.

KING: Lois, what about Elizabeth's personality that made her apparently, this is to our eyes, so easily readjustable?

L. SMART: Well, I think the love and support of both our families. The love that even the children have for one another. I mean, there was a period of adjustment where, you know, she didn't have to do chores for awhile and the children trying to do everything they could for her but, you know, that soon wore off after about a month and she fits right back into the, you know, family. And she's doing chores and she's doing everything else that everybody, you know, all the children are expected to do.

KING: Beno, Oregon, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: Sorry about that.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: What my question is I would like to say to the Smarts really quick that we were all with you and we all felt your pain and I think she was all of our daughter at that time and so glad she'd's home.

L. SMART: Thank you.

CALLER: My question is what are her plans for the future?

Is she going to go to the college or plans with the harp, she was talking about that?

KING: What is she going to do?

L. SMART: Well, of November 3 she turned 16 and can hardly wait to drive and to date. So, those are very soon plans that she has. But a future goals she wants to do something with her harp. She wants to pursue that. Perhaps become a music teacher. She's -- there's a lot of different things that she could do. She is so talented.

KING: Going to go to Brigham Young, Ed?

E. SMART: She's wanting to go to Juilliard a reasonable doubt.

KING: Not a bad choice.

E. SMART: No.

KING: Pittsburgh, hello. Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: I have a question. Has the -- has the Smarts spoken with Ricci's widow since this happened.

KING: Ed.

E. SMART: I haven't spoken directly with Angela. I had contact with her at one of the hearings, and she went through a lot. And...

KING: Sure did.

E. SMART: It's horrible to think what she had to go through and my heart, you know, goes out to her. She and I -- when we had a chance to visiting together, you know, she genuinely wanted to see Elizabeth come home and she tried and I appreciate that. And, you know, I just -- I know she's gone through a lot.

KING: Malone, New York, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Good evening. First I would like to commend both of you for coming out and answering our questions like this. And second of all, those nine months must have been just an emotional roller coaster.

How are the children dealing with in, the other children and what's done for them emotionally?

KING: Good question, Lois.

L. SMART: We all are receive therapy. And, you know, children and Elizabeth, it's something they don't like to talk about so we certainly want to respect their wishes, but we are all receiving the help that we need.

KING: In the CBS TV movie which the Smarts cooperated with, there are scenes we Elizabeth's time with her captors based on what she told or how did this work, Ed?

E. SMART: You know, this worked based on items that she wanted people to know about. For example, I mean, we have been very protective of her, not wanting her to have to go through anymore than absolutely necessary with regard to the trial or anything. And she wanted people to know that she could not just get away. She wanted people to know -- a little bit of what she went through. Which, you know, is just the tip of the iceberg.

KING: Were you happy with the finished product?

E. SMART: I haven't seen it yet.

KING: Wright City, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I'm so happy that Elizabeth is home and my prayers are still with you.

My question is, do you still employee the less fortunate or are you not going to do that anymore?

KING: Lois.

L. SMART: It's very difficult to let anyone in our home that we do not know. We certainly, you know, want to check out their background before we just let anybody in our home.

KING: Nancy, did -- Nancy, did you ever deal with the fact -- you deal with it on Court TV, one case and not another. Was the Smarts was a big case and others missing kids weren't?

GRACE: Yes, yes. I talk about that. Talked about that many, many times. I think the reason that Elizabeth's case taken the forefront recently is because it's truly a miracle. There are so few happy endings that...

KING: Yes, but it was covered before it was a miracle.

GRACE: Yes. I think her family went public. They had the means and the ability. And could convey that to the public in a way that reached the public's heart. Not every parent can do that, but they did. And Larry, back on that woman's question, to them, your security how you have brought the homeless to your home.

One, do you ever plague yourself with guilt for bringing Emmanuel near your home, and, two, I wanted you to share with the viewers, Larry, something they were just telling me about the dreams you had during her absence. It was just heart breaking. Go ahead.

E. SMART: You know, I -- I did have some dreams. And I dreamt a recurring part of the dream was having Elizabeth walk back into our room. Walk back in and just feel this total elation of having her back in our lives. And, that's happened. And it kept us going. I mean, it kept -- it really kept me feeling like she was out there. We've got to do something.

KING: Did you nearly have a nervous break down, Ed?

E. SMART: I did. I had a very hard time and -- Lois was a tremendous support and help. And I truly feel that, you know, the lord made it possible for us to go forward.

KING: Take a break and be back with more moments. As we go to break here's some more of that scene from the upcoming CBS movie about all of this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone took Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mary Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone took Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey. I'm sure you were just having a dream. She's probably down stairs asleep on the couch.

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: It's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. SMART: I want you to know that I am the luckiest mother in the world. I am so happy and so thrilled. I am overjoyed with the return of Elizabeth, and thanks to you for your love, your prayers, your support. It was a priceless gift that we couldn't have done without you. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Tampa, Florida, for the Smarts, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Larry. Without the missing children not able to find their way home, Elizabeth gives us all hope that a happy ending is possible. My question for the parents is, what are your thoughts on satellite technology and microchips placed in children that could give law enforcement officials aid in finding missing children when time is truly of the essence?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: You know, I think that it's a wonderful technology. I can't imagine us having every child microchipped. This's my -- I mean, does that just go out for the people who can afford it, and we feel -- I mean, the thing that was so beautiful about the AMBER Alert is it crossed every, you know, every race, every...

KING: Economic strata.

E. SMART: Exactly. And it was there for everyone, and I think that things that can be there for everyone, that is the real push, and I think that, you know, certainly, microchips are wonderful things. But, you know, do our -- I don't know. Does that give -- who does that information...

KING: Go to?

E. SMART: ... who does that information allowed to?

KING: Yeah. North Vernon, Indiana, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Everyone, I'd like to say that I admire the Smart family. And I have two questions. I would like to know how the Smarts see their role now as advocates for children, because I think they've been thrust into this position, that America looks upon them as advocates. And what do you think that can be done to help us find other missing children, abducted children in America today?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: You know, I think that one of the greatest things that can happen, and John Walsh is doing this, is that, you know, when the public is involved with law enforcement, and when people work together, things happen. But when information is held back, when, you know, people think, well, you know, we shouldn't share this information, then I think that the system doesn't work as well as it can be, because the public is the best resource that any of us have. And I feel so strongly that, you know, these laws that have been passed the past year are going to be tremendous influence and effect for the, you know, getting rid of these kidnappers.

In California, I had a chance participating in a seminar recently where Steve Smith (ph), one of the sheriffs out there, said, Ed, I just want you to know that we have had 40 AMBER Alerts and we have had 40 live rescues.

KING: Wow.

E. SMART: I mean, when you have those kind of statistics which were very hard to believe, but when you have those kind of statistics and you hear about abductors that pull off to the side of the road, let the kids out and turn themselves in, that is what we need. Every state needs to be on board with the AMBER Alert.

KING: We are almost out of time. Nancy, would you agree quickly this may be one of the most heinous of crimes, to take someone from someone's house, a child?

GRACE: Especially. And especially the nature of the victim, the most innocent, Larry. Makes it more heinous.

KING: Nancy, we'll see you tomorrow night when the preliminary hearing begins in the Scott Peterson case. And Ed and Lois, we thank you very much. We were happy to play some sort of part in all of this.

E. SMART: Thanks so much, Larry. L. SMART: Thank you, Larry.

E. SMART: You were a tremendous help.

KING: Oh, thank you. Ed and Lois Smart and Nancy Grace with them. "Bringing Elizabeth Home: A Journey of Faith and Hope." The publisher is Doubleday. I'll be back in a couple of minutes to tell you a little more about tomorrow night. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There finally will be a preliminary hearing in the Scott Peterson case. It starts tomorrow, and of course our panel will be on hand. Reporters on the scene as well, to cover it all and take your calls.

Speaking of being on the scene, the host of "NEWSNIGHT" is always on the scene. He's in Washington again tonight, doing a lot of preparatory work for a big show coming on the anniversary of the death of President Kennedy. There he is, Aaron Brown, once again with the Capitol behind him, a nice setting, a nice scene. Mr. Brown, go.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 28, 2003 - 21:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Elizabeth Smart's parents, Ed and Lois Smart, live for the hour with your phone calls. They'll answer your questions about their daughter's terrifying nine-month ordeal and what they went through between her abduction and miraculous recovery.
Ed and Lois Smart. A revealing, emotional hour next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Ed and Lois Smart are both with us in New York. Also with us in New York is Nancy Grace, the host of "Closing Arguments" on Court TV. We'll be calling on Nancy with some questions and she may have some for the Smarts as well.

Before we talk with them, let's show you a little video taken tonight of the Smarts, enjoying, along with their daughter Elizabeth dinner in New York City. There you see a very happy and relaxed Elizabeth Smart eating dinner this evening and, we trust, having a good time. We'll ask them how things go, of course, and cover lots of bases in a moment.

And then the other day, we were in -- boy, they are a good- looking family. The other day we sent our crew to the Smart home in Salt Lake City, and we caught Elizabeth doing the thing she loves to do the best, playing the harp. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Elizabeth Smart was abducted from the bedroom she shared with her younger sister, Mary Katherine, June 5, 2002 and she was recovered on the streets of Salt Lake City in the company of Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee on March 12, 2003.

Ed, why are you -- why are you doing this? Why are you coming out now, putting Elizabeth on in a couple of shows, writing a book -- why?

ED SMART, ELIZABETH SMART'S FATHER: Well, you know, originally, we had so many people ask us to help them with book deals or they were going to do book deals or movies and, I mean, the morning after Elizabeth came home this started happening. And it was so intrusive that it finally came to a point -- well, if we don't go forward and do something, somebody else is going to. And we just felt like, you know, we really do want to tell our story and let people know what we went through.

LOIS SMART, ELIZABETH SMART'S MOTHER: But there was so much misinformation out there, too, that we wanted to clear that up.

KING: And, also, Lois, a television play about this, right? That you...

L. SMART: Yes.

KING: I mean, you endorsed or participated in, right?

L. SMART: Yes.

KING: And then on a couple of interviews you let Elizabeth go on briefly. Was that a difficult decision, Ed?

E. SMART: Well, you know, I think that that started out as just being, you know -- they were going to be introduced and say, Hi and it went further than that. But, you know, Elizabeth really is in charge of her life and she is the one that says yes or no and she is -- you know, I think one of the most important things as parents that we are able to do for her is to help her know that she is in charge of her life and that she can go forward.

You know, where her life was taken from her for nine months and she was held hostage and held in such a, you know, horrible situation, giving her the power to make choices and decisions is very important.

KING: The cover of the book we just showed is "Bringing Elizabeth Home." It is published by Doubleday. The subtitle is "A Journey of Faith and Hope." There you see its cover. By Ed and Lois Smart. Written with Laura Morton. Obviously a writer you could trust, right?

(CROSSTALK)

L. SMART: Yes. Yes, she did. And we worked a long time on it but she got it right.

KING: OK. How -- Lois, if you would look a little to your left, because you;re looking at your wrong camera.

L. SMART: OK.

KING: Because Ed's looking at the right at the right camera and Lois -- it looks just distracting.

L. SMART: OK.

KING: Lois, how -- how is Elizabeth doing?

L. SMART: She's doing wonderful. And, she's excelling this school, is an accomplished harpist, has lot of friends. She just had a birthday party Saturday, just last Saturday to celebrate her 16th birthday, and 70 of her friends were in our home so she's doing fantastic. KING: Ed, it's obvious this was very traumatic. I mean, that goes without saying. Is she getting psychological help?

E. SMART: Absolutely. We have been giving her help ever since, you know -- the day she got home we arranged to get some help and, you know, I just am so happy with the way she's moving forward.

KING: How traumatized was she initially?

E. SMART: You know, when I think of how traumatized, I think of when I walked into that room and I saw her sitting there on the sofa and I think that we both went into shock because I think on her part, she thought, Is this ordeal really coming an end? Am I really going to be safe again? And on my part, I looked there and I saw a daughter who had changed so much. She had grown up and matured so much that I just -- it looked like her but I mean, inside, I just kind of thought, you know, can this really be true? Are we really at the end of trying to find her?

KING: Because you realized the odds were way against you?

E. SMART: Oh, statistically, she was dead.

KING: Yes. Yes. In the book, Lois, you write that Elizabeth exhibited some of the traits of the Stockholm Syndrome. That's to endorse the views of your captor. But unlike most victims, she never bonded. How do you explain that?

L. SMART: Well, for instance, he had her keep a diary, a daily diary, and he would tell her things to put in this diary. But she had the presence of mind -- I mean, she never completely had control over her because she was writing in French at the bottom of this diary saying how much she hated being there, hated this person, and did not believe anything he said.

E. SMART: And loved her family.

KING: Yes. Good point.

Have you become, Ed -- it would be logical if you have -- extremely, overly protective?

E. SMART: You know, Elizabeth like any young woman, is very anxious to have her own freedom. And we are anxious to let her be in charge. But, yes, we are. I mean, the day we let her go to school to check out the schools that she was considering going back to, it was just like, you know, can I -- can I stand to let her go again? What's going to happen? You know, will she be back? Will somebody try something? And, yes, it was very difficult.

And she's back in school. She's just doing wonderfully. And, you know, I think that we have learned that we don't want her going anywhere by herself. I mean, somebody needs to be with her so that we don't need to --

L. SMART: But that's with all our children. E. SMART: Yes, all of our children are that way. I mean, it's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

KING: Do you have, Lois, security concerns now? Are you overly -- do you have protection at the house? Do you have private detectives? Are you that concerned?

L. SMART: No. We do not have private detectives. But we do have a security system that works. All our doors are beeping and let us know when somebody comes in and out of the doors. We have two dogs, one inside and one outside. And I think we feel all comfortable and safe in our home. It's a good place to be.

KING: Ed, were there any thoughts to selling the house and moving somewhere else?

E. SMART: That's a daily issue. We are up and down on that so we just, you know, we're going to take it -- take one day at a time. And, if we're to a point where we do decide to sell, I mean, certainly, we have considered that and we may do that.

KING: And do you at all have any qualms about bringing all of this forward? You know, putting Elizabeth in the limelight? A lot of people might say, Let's forget -- let's just disappear.

E. SMART: You know, and I think we do want to disappear. I think that, yes, we have brought this forward. We have done this because, you know, somebody was going to do it if we didn't. And we felt like, you know, we should represent what happened and to, you know, tell from our perspective instead of somebody's perspective that was not there and did not go through it and that's really the reason why. And, you know, you just can't even begin to imagine how many people were there helping and trying to help. And we're just so thankful to each one of them.

KING: We're going to go to break. We'll bring Nancy Grace in in the next segment. She may have some questions. And then we'll be going to a lot of calls tonight for the Smarts.

The book is "Bringing Elizabeth Home." As we go to break, here's more of this very attractive young lady playing the harp in her house.

We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Your calls will be included, of course. The is "Bringing Elizabeth Home."

The guests are Ed and Lois Smart. Also with us is Nancy Grace, frequently on this show.

She'll be on tomorrow night when we start covering the Peterson preliminary hearing.

Nancy do you have a question for Ed and Lois?

NANCY GRACE, COURT TV: I do. I do. Larry, and I have been studying this case for so long. I was wondering, that night, June 5 when Mary Catherine came into your room and said Elizabeth is gone. And then started looking for her and couldn't find her, what did you in your room, trying to rationalize it, what did you think happened to her?

L. SMART: Well, I think initially, we didn't believe she was gone. She had just moved out of the bedroom and had gone down to the sofa or something. It never crossed our mind that she would have been kidnapped.

GRACE: When did it finally sink in Elizabeth is gone?

L. SMART: When I saw the screen is cut.

GRACE: Did it kill you when you were here on television speculating, the screen was cut from the inside and as if you had cut the screen yourself?

L. SMART: Yes.

GRACE: Did it torture you to watch television?

L. SMART: Of course, of course. That's why we didn't. I couldn't. There was so much misinformation going out, and people speculating as to what happened. I know Elizabeth. I carried her inside of me for nine months. I knew what kind of girl she was. She didn't run away. She didn't have a boyfriend. She wasn't having trouble at home, you know.

GRACE: Or at school.

L. SMART: Or at school. That's right.

KING: Ed, in that regard, Ed for the longest period of time when we asked you about your younger daughter said to you about the identity or the drawing, you refrained from discussing it. Was that on police orders?

E. SMART: Well, you know, initially, when Mary Catherine came in and we discovered that Elizabeth was kidnapped, you know, we just had a very, very brief idea of what happened. We did not know the full details. The police were very good about taking her and sequestering her so that, you know, her story wouldn't be corrupted. And so, we did not know for the first probably week really what happened. And, then it came forward that, you know, initially, I thought that she was directly threatened, and she hadn't been. She was pretending to be asleep there. So I didn't know. And then there were a number of things that the police felt would be important to keep to ourselves, and at that point in time, they didn't want us to come forward with them.

KING: And eventually, she did have the right identity, did she not.

E. SMART: She did. You know, I don't know that you could say that the description that she gave was a description of Brian Mitchell because the description did not include the beard. It did not include a number of things. And, but, you know, the one thing that stayed with Mary Catherine is she recognized that voice which is totally amazing to me. Because she was exposed to him for maybe three, three minutes at the most, you know. And hearing a person's voice for such a short time, it's hard to imagine that that could be familiar. You know, in Lois, in our minds, we feel that it was nothing more than a gift from god that...

KING: I know you do -- Nancy.

GRACE: Yes. I was just wondering when you look back on all of this now in retrospect, what is your most vivid memory of her disappearance?

L. SMART: I think when we first realized that it was, in fact, true that she was gone and that screen that was cut. And then that first night because I think we were in such disbelief that it could really have happened. And we kept thinking, she'll be back tonight. They are going to find her. She's going to come home. So that first night, well, I mean, they were all torturous but that first was terrible.

GRACE: So the first night is your vivid memory of pain. But what was a typical day like for you?

We didn't see you for days sometimes.

What was a day like, your ordinary day during her absence?

L. SMART: Well, because of the other five children, I had to carry on being their mother. I had to cook meals. I had to do their laundry. I had to get them ready for school and take them to their music lessons and their soccer games and things. And so I had to carry on. But there wasn't a moment that passed that I did not have her in my mind. I my mind thoughts, in my prayers and in my heart. And I think every single night we sobbed for hours.

KING: Did you get a lot of flack, Ed, over the fact of the two daughters slept together?

Was there any -- did anybody care about that?

E. SMART: You know, I have heard some comments about it but it doesn't matter. I mean, the two girls love each other and they're just happy. And now, of course, Elizabeth thinks she's too grown up to be sharing a room.

KING: Of course. E. SMART: But they have just a wonderful relationship. And, you know, what was was and I didn't ever see any problem with it. So, you know, it's a moot point.

KING: I slept with my brother, too. I didn't have any problems.

L. SMART: Me, too, Larry, my sister.

KING: I don't know what it means. Any ways, we'll take a break and come back and your calls in a little while. Nancy will more questions, we'll have more question, and you'll have lots of questions. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Before we get back with the Smarts and Nancy Grace, John Walsh broke the news about Emmanuel, Emmanuel is Mr. Mitchell, on this program here. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": But their young daughter has now said that she believes that Ricci wasn't the guy in there that night, that it may have been another guy that did some work on their roof, an itinerate guy that worked at a homeless shelter, and he may be a suspect in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Mr. Smart, you write that, "at the time we were shocked that he had shared this information so quickly and without our knowing that he had planned to do so." But then in hindsight, it was a blessing. It set us on a course that would ultimately bring Elizabeth home." It's been reported you were furious with Walsh about going public. Is that true or not true?

E. SMART: That is not true.

L. SMART: No, that is not true.

E. SMART: John is one of my best friends. He is an advocate for children. There's nobody out there that can beat John Walsh as far as being an advocate for children. And we had talked in his studio in the green room and I had said, now, can I talk to you in confidence? And so it was a surprise that it came out, but I was not furious. And I, in fact, that was one of the turning points in the case, because we were having a very hard time moving forward between the police and other issues. Coming forward with that description. And, coming out that night actually pushed us into having to do that. And, John is...

L. SMART: It was a blessing.

E. SMART: It was a very -- a tremendous blessing.

KING: Lois, did you think it was poor, hopeless, innocent Mr. Ricci? L. SMART: Did I ever think that?

KING: That he was involved?

L. SMART: Yes. There were times when I think we did think that Richard possibly knew something about it, or -- or -- yes. Knew something about it, because of things that we had heard that he had talked to his other friends and they wanted to come back and rob our home and he had stolen from us. So it wasn't that, you know, I mean, he wouldn't clear himself, and so, yes. We did feel that he was involved.

KING: Nancy, I'll have a question too for you. But do you have another one for the Smarts?

GRACE: I do. Something you brought up, Larry. Regarding Mary Catherine coming forward, in my mind, she did better than a description. She had a name. Emmanuel. And I was just wondering, I know that there was a delay from the time she gave you the name until you went public with a sketch of Emmanuel, who we now know to be Brian David Mitchell. Why the lag of a couple of months?

E. SMART: Well, for one thing, I mean, the police were working very diligently trying to follow up tail ends on Richard Ricci, and they wanted to complete that. But they also had taken Andrew, my son, and Charles, my son, and worked on composite drawings with them over the next few weeks. And when we saw -- when I saw those composite drawings, I thought they don't even look close to what Brian David Mitchell...

GRACE: Emmanuel looked like.

E. SMART: Yes. And I just thought, you know, at one point in time I called Corey Lyman (ph) up, who I truly do respect a lot of the police force. I just think they really worked hard, but I said -- I called Corey (ph) up and I said, Corey (ph), when are we going to go forward with this? Because, you know, we have got to do it. I couldn't live with myself.

GRACE: Knowing that name...

E. SMART: If I didn't follow up on this possibility. And truly, I mean, when you look at the circumstances, Mary Catherine remembering this Emmanuel. And it was a -- what, five minutes' exposure. How is some little girl going to come forward with that name? I mean, it was a miracle.

GRACE: Well, the other thing I wanted to ask Lois is I read in the book and I had heard this that Elizabeth wanted to take you to the spot where she had been tied to a tree, living down in a hole in the dirt. What went through your mind when you saw the way your baby had been living?

L. SMART: The conditions were terrible, as you can imagine. I mean, maybe once a week she'd have a bucket of cold water poured over her head, and, you know, food. I think she lived off of bread and water every day. And so, it was a terrible hurtful feeling that I had to live with, but when I asked her, I said, Elizabeth, how do you feel? How does this make you feel coming back here now? And when she said, I feel triumphant, my heart was singing.

GRACE: Did you cry in front of her?

L. SMART: Yes. .

KING: Nancy, is this a case that can be -- how's it going to be pled? Could it be plea bargained, this case? I mean, what could the defense possibly be?

GRACE: Well, I see, clearly, they're going to try an insanity defense, because there is going to be a rock solid identification, there is tons of forensic evidence pointing to them. So they can't really say I didn't do it, and especially since Brian David Mitchell's original defense was, she's my wife. So he's made a lot of incriminating statements. I foresee an insanity defense, or them trying to get one to roll over on the other, probably Barzee, testifying against Mitchell. I think they should both go to trial for the max -- they don't need to take a plea.

And that's another thing, Larry. I heard, and this could have been misinformation, that you guys did not want to go forward with a trial, that you didn't want Elizabeth to testify. Is that true?

E. SMART: You know, we do not want to have anymore exposure for Elizabeth than she has to go through, because we feel like she's gone through a lot, but certainly we want a trial to go forward. We do want to see justice. We would never want to see another family go through what we've been through.

KING: And of course, she would have to testify, right, Nancy? Obviously she would have to testify.

GRACE: Right. Because they would have the right to cross- examine her under the Constitution's Sixth Amendment right to confrontation. But Larry, as a trial strategy tactic, I don't see any defense attorney being rough with Elizabeth. But they will cross- examine.

KING: We'll take a break and come back. We'll start to include your phone calls. Nancy Grace remains with us. We are with Ed and Lois Smart, the parents of abducted and now recovered teenager Elizabeth Smart. The new book that also tells you a lot about the strong faith they have and their belief in their faith, in "Bringing Elizabeth Home: A Journey of Faith and Hope." We're be back with your calls right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. SMART: We feel the prayers that are coming from people and we know it's by this that Elizabeth is going to return to us. We want her home. We really want her home.

L. SMART: And Elizabeth, if you can hear us, we love you, Elizabeth. We haven't forgotten, and everybody wants you back, and we won't stop until you're home.

E. SMART: It's real! It's real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so, so very glad that this has a happy ending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Ed and Lois Smart and Nancy Grace. The book is "Bringing Elizabeth Home," as we show you the Smart family enjoying dinner tonight in New York City with a wide choice of restaurants, as you might well gather.

Let's go to calls for the Smarts, a very happy family. "Bringing Elizabeth Home" is the book.

Pleasant Grove, Utah, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Larry?

KING: Hi.

CALLER: Yes. Hello to Brother and Sister Smart and especially Elizabeth. My question is, for Elizabeth, when you were first...

KING: Elizabeth isn't here, dear.

CALLER: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought she was.

KING: No.

CALLER: OK. Maybe the Smarts know the answer to this.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: When she was first spotted in Sandy, the comment was, I'm not that Elizabeth Smart girl that you're looking for. Do they know why Elizabeth made that comment and what her thinking process was? And what she was feeling?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: Absolutely.

You have to think that for nine months -- the first two months she was cabled. She could not go anywhere. She was threatened. She was intimidated. And she was basically put in a position where if she was to survive, she had to do what they said. That isn't saying that she gave over in her mind to them. But she -- she didn't know who was Brian's friends out there, whether they were going to come and kill us. And she was -- she didn't know who to trust. And so, I think that she was in this mode where, you know, she had to just keep going forward. Nobody identified her. Nobody came up to her during those nine months. L. SMART: But I also think it was -- I mean, she was right under our nose. And nobody could identify her. I mean, she went right down into the city. She mingled with the people down there. And nobody knew who she was. And so, to give up that -- I mean, it was like it happened that way for nine months. Why would it happen all of a sudden, you know, that these places -- what if they didn't take them or what would happen if, you know, she had to go back to them. And so it was a constant worry that her family would be hurt or she would be hurt.

KING: And by the way, did -- Ed, during those times there were rewards offered. Did that person who spotted them get that reward, Ed?

E. SMART: I believe so. I had nothing to do with the reward. The chief of the police and the mayor, Rocky Anderson, both worked together and got those rewards out.

KING: Nancy, Patty Hearst was on this show right after Elizabeth was found and she said -- Patty Hearst said -- it was crucial to get someone to protect Elizabeth's best interests in the legal process; that while police and prosecutors may care about Elizabeth, their first priority getting a conviction. Someone has to care about Elizabeth.

Did you agree with that?

GRACE: Yes, I do. But the first priority of the prosecutor is to seek justice. And that, in my mind, from what I can tell from Elizabeth's own mouth, will be the convictions of Mitchell and Barzee. So that is where the state is headed to seek justice.And as far as an attorney representing Elizabeth at trial, it would be a civil attorney that would really not have a standing to object during a jury trial.

So, yes, I can see them protecting her interests. But in a criminal trial, they don't have a leg to stand on, basically.

Larry, you asked regarding why Elizabeth first said, I'm not Elizabeth Smart. Larry, out of every rape case, every child kidnapping case I have ever handled, the child is so conditioned. That is why they don't come forward and tell their parents. They're too afraid. And this is not uncommon.

KING: Albany, Oregon, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I wondered if the Smarts have any kinds of plan for the profit made from the book. Is there a charity or anything involved?

And I also just wanted to say, You must be so proud of your daughters. I mean, both of them. It just seems like Elizabeth has just reacted so incredibly well and is so strong.

KING: Lois, the profits from the book. Any plans?

L. SMART: Yes, we do. We are going to give some to charities and -- yes.

KING: Ed, you write -- before I take the next call -- faith is very important in this book, right? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Did you ever doubt it?

E. SMART: You know, there were definitely times where I didn't know -- when I didn't know if she was alive or not. I mean, there were doubts. But I kept on having a reaffirmation that she was out there and that we needed to go forward.

KING: Ever doubts about your faith?

E. SMART: No. I mean, we're not...

KING: Really?

E. SMART: We're not perfect, but I truly -- I mean, both Lois and I together have felt very strongly that the only thing that got us through was God -- was the Lord.

KING: Ashtabula, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: How are you?

KING: Fine.

CALLER: It's a pleasure speaking with all of you. My questions are two briefly (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

First of all, does the police department or the D.A.'s office keep you informed about anything that's going on with these people legally? And, because of the fact that they took Elizabeth out of her home, will this be tried in a federal court? And I thank you very much and it truly is a pleasure speaking with you.

KING: Second part's for Nancy. First part for the Smarts. Ed?

E. SMART: Well, you know, I know that Elizabeth -- I'm sorry. Blank that one.

KING: The question was, do the police and the prosecutors keep in touch with you as to the progress?

E. SMART: Yes. They do. We also have some very good friends in the media -- Ben, thank you -- that help us. And we're -- you know, we do stay informed. But the media helps us, as well as anyone does.

KING: Is this a federal kidnapping trial or a state trial, Nancy?

GRACE: It will be a state trial. Of course, the feds very often step in and do a kidnapping. But state authorities can do a kidnapping, as well. And the reason I think this will be only a state trial is for what they call judicial economy. Bottom line, they don't want to put Elizabeth through testifying twice at state level and at federal level. So there will be one trial.

KING: Hempstead, New York, hello.

CALLER: Yes. Good evening.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: It's such a pleasure to say hello to the Smarts. They're a wonderful family.

KING: They are.

CALLER: And the question is, since their gorgeous, wonderful daughter has been returned to the wonderful family and the whole family, has their faith increased?

L. SMART: Yes, it has. Yes, it's increased tremendously. I mean, the only way we can look at this is that it truly was a miracle from God and that prayers are answered. Our prayers were answered.

KING: There's some wonderful pictures in this book, one of which was a Christmas card that we have a color picture of that we're going to show you. This card was, as I understand it, never sent. I'll ask about this.

But this is Christmas 2002. The family Christmas photo taken, leaving space for Elizabeth. There you see where she would have been. The Smart children wrote letters to missing Elizabeth as a Christmas wish. The family got back the true meaning of the Holloway -- the holiday.

The card was never sent, Ed?

E. SMART: No, it wasn't. We just couldn't send one out last year. But, you know, there were so many wonderful people out there that we would, you know, thank over and over again. And, you know, it wasn't our prayers just being answered. There were so many prayers that were offered and we're so grateful to everyone for all that they did on Elizabeth's behalf and on our behalf.

And, you know, we just -- I think that is what really made us feel so strongly about going forward with the Amber Alert. Because here we had the nation behind us. We had so many prayers. And there are so many children that don't have this support. And there needs to be some type of help out there. And John has been such a huge advocate for missing children. And has pushed so hard in bringing legislation about and it was a honor to be with him and to share in this wonderful moment.

KING: We'll take a break and be back with more calls for Nancy Grace and Ed and Lois Smart. They're the authors of "Bringing Elizabeth Home."

Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

E. SMART: I'm asking you and pleading with whoever has her that I -- that I would do anything to have her back in my arms. And please, realize how much she's missed. She's missed tremendously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Ed Smart, a question came in and didn't get the call through, but the question was good.

As a Christian, as a believer, what do you think the punishment should be?

E. SMART: You know, I feel like he should not see the light of day again. I just -- I would be so concerned that he would be out there doing the same thing again trying to kidnap other children, that I just -- I hope that he never gets back out on the street.

KING: Lois, what about Elizabeth's personality that made her apparently, this is to our eyes, so easily readjustable?

L. SMART: Well, I think the love and support of both our families. The love that even the children have for one another. I mean, there was a period of adjustment where, you know, she didn't have to do chores for awhile and the children trying to do everything they could for her but, you know, that soon wore off after about a month and she fits right back into the, you know, family. And she's doing chores and she's doing everything else that everybody, you know, all the children are expected to do.

KING: Beno, Oregon, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: Sorry about that.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: What my question is I would like to say to the Smarts really quick that we were all with you and we all felt your pain and I think she was all of our daughter at that time and so glad she'd's home.

L. SMART: Thank you.

CALLER: My question is what are her plans for the future?

Is she going to go to the college or plans with the harp, she was talking about that?

KING: What is she going to do?

L. SMART: Well, of November 3 she turned 16 and can hardly wait to drive and to date. So, those are very soon plans that she has. But a future goals she wants to do something with her harp. She wants to pursue that. Perhaps become a music teacher. She's -- there's a lot of different things that she could do. She is so talented.

KING: Going to go to Brigham Young, Ed?

E. SMART: She's wanting to go to Juilliard a reasonable doubt.

KING: Not a bad choice.

E. SMART: No.

KING: Pittsburgh, hello. Yes, go ahead.

CALLER: I have a question. Has the -- has the Smarts spoken with Ricci's widow since this happened.

KING: Ed.

E. SMART: I haven't spoken directly with Angela. I had contact with her at one of the hearings, and she went through a lot. And...

KING: Sure did.

E. SMART: It's horrible to think what she had to go through and my heart, you know, goes out to her. She and I -- when we had a chance to visiting together, you know, she genuinely wanted to see Elizabeth come home and she tried and I appreciate that. And, you know, I just -- I know she's gone through a lot.

KING: Malone, New York, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Good evening. First I would like to commend both of you for coming out and answering our questions like this. And second of all, those nine months must have been just an emotional roller coaster.

How are the children dealing with in, the other children and what's done for them emotionally?

KING: Good question, Lois.

L. SMART: We all are receive therapy. And, you know, children and Elizabeth, it's something they don't like to talk about so we certainly want to respect their wishes, but we are all receiving the help that we need.

KING: In the CBS TV movie which the Smarts cooperated with, there are scenes we Elizabeth's time with her captors based on what she told or how did this work, Ed?

E. SMART: You know, this worked based on items that she wanted people to know about. For example, I mean, we have been very protective of her, not wanting her to have to go through anymore than absolutely necessary with regard to the trial or anything. And she wanted people to know that she could not just get away. She wanted people to know -- a little bit of what she went through. Which, you know, is just the tip of the iceberg.

KING: Were you happy with the finished product?

E. SMART: I haven't seen it yet.

KING: Wright City, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I'm so happy that Elizabeth is home and my prayers are still with you.

My question is, do you still employee the less fortunate or are you not going to do that anymore?

KING: Lois.

L. SMART: It's very difficult to let anyone in our home that we do not know. We certainly, you know, want to check out their background before we just let anybody in our home.

KING: Nancy, did -- Nancy, did you ever deal with the fact -- you deal with it on Court TV, one case and not another. Was the Smarts was a big case and others missing kids weren't?

GRACE: Yes, yes. I talk about that. Talked about that many, many times. I think the reason that Elizabeth's case taken the forefront recently is because it's truly a miracle. There are so few happy endings that...

KING: Yes, but it was covered before it was a miracle.

GRACE: Yes. I think her family went public. They had the means and the ability. And could convey that to the public in a way that reached the public's heart. Not every parent can do that, but they did. And Larry, back on that woman's question, to them, your security how you have brought the homeless to your home.

One, do you ever plague yourself with guilt for bringing Emmanuel near your home, and, two, I wanted you to share with the viewers, Larry, something they were just telling me about the dreams you had during her absence. It was just heart breaking. Go ahead.

E. SMART: You know, I -- I did have some dreams. And I dreamt a recurring part of the dream was having Elizabeth walk back into our room. Walk back in and just feel this total elation of having her back in our lives. And, that's happened. And it kept us going. I mean, it kept -- it really kept me feeling like she was out there. We've got to do something.

KING: Did you nearly have a nervous break down, Ed?

E. SMART: I did. I had a very hard time and -- Lois was a tremendous support and help. And I truly feel that, you know, the lord made it possible for us to go forward.

KING: Take a break and be back with more moments. As we go to break here's some more of that scene from the upcoming CBS movie about all of this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone took Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mary Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone took Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Honey. I'm sure you were just having a dream. She's probably down stairs asleep on the couch.

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: It's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. SMART: I want you to know that I am the luckiest mother in the world. I am so happy and so thrilled. I am overjoyed with the return of Elizabeth, and thanks to you for your love, your prayers, your support. It was a priceless gift that we couldn't have done without you. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Tampa, Florida, for the Smarts, hello.

CALLER: Yes, Larry. Without the missing children not able to find their way home, Elizabeth gives us all hope that a happy ending is possible. My question for the parents is, what are your thoughts on satellite technology and microchips placed in children that could give law enforcement officials aid in finding missing children when time is truly of the essence?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: You know, I think that it's a wonderful technology. I can't imagine us having every child microchipped. This's my -- I mean, does that just go out for the people who can afford it, and we feel -- I mean, the thing that was so beautiful about the AMBER Alert is it crossed every, you know, every race, every...

KING: Economic strata.

E. SMART: Exactly. And it was there for everyone, and I think that things that can be there for everyone, that is the real push, and I think that, you know, certainly, microchips are wonderful things. But, you know, do our -- I don't know. Does that give -- who does that information...

KING: Go to?

E. SMART: ... who does that information allowed to?

KING: Yeah. North Vernon, Indiana, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Everyone, I'd like to say that I admire the Smart family. And I have two questions. I would like to know how the Smarts see their role now as advocates for children, because I think they've been thrust into this position, that America looks upon them as advocates. And what do you think that can be done to help us find other missing children, abducted children in America today?

KING: Ed?

E. SMART: You know, I think that one of the greatest things that can happen, and John Walsh is doing this, is that, you know, when the public is involved with law enforcement, and when people work together, things happen. But when information is held back, when, you know, people think, well, you know, we shouldn't share this information, then I think that the system doesn't work as well as it can be, because the public is the best resource that any of us have. And I feel so strongly that, you know, these laws that have been passed the past year are going to be tremendous influence and effect for the, you know, getting rid of these kidnappers.

In California, I had a chance participating in a seminar recently where Steve Smith (ph), one of the sheriffs out there, said, Ed, I just want you to know that we have had 40 AMBER Alerts and we have had 40 live rescues.

KING: Wow.

E. SMART: I mean, when you have those kind of statistics which were very hard to believe, but when you have those kind of statistics and you hear about abductors that pull off to the side of the road, let the kids out and turn themselves in, that is what we need. Every state needs to be on board with the AMBER Alert.

KING: We are almost out of time. Nancy, would you agree quickly this may be one of the most heinous of crimes, to take someone from someone's house, a child?

GRACE: Especially. And especially the nature of the victim, the most innocent, Larry. Makes it more heinous.

KING: Nancy, we'll see you tomorrow night when the preliminary hearing begins in the Scott Peterson case. And Ed and Lois, we thank you very much. We were happy to play some sort of part in all of this.

E. SMART: Thanks so much, Larry. L. SMART: Thank you, Larry.

E. SMART: You were a tremendous help.

KING: Oh, thank you. Ed and Lois Smart and Nancy Grace with them. "Bringing Elizabeth Home: A Journey of Faith and Hope." The publisher is Doubleday. I'll be back in a couple of minutes to tell you a little more about tomorrow night. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There finally will be a preliminary hearing in the Scott Peterson case. It starts tomorrow, and of course our panel will be on hand. Reporters on the scene as well, to cover it all and take your calls.

Speaking of being on the scene, the host of "NEWSNIGHT" is always on the scene. He's in Washington again tonight, doing a lot of preparatory work for a big show coming on the anniversary of the death of President Kennedy. There he is, Aaron Brown, once again with the Capitol behind him, a nice setting, a nice scene. Mr. Brown, go.

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