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Interview with Katherine Harris, Ellen Tauscher

Aired October 30, 2003 - 12:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: A matter of security. The United Nations has pulled its international staff out of Baghdad, at least temporarily. The move comes two months after a car bomb targeted the U.N. headquarters there, killing 22 U.N. workers. Staffers remain on the job in other parts of Iraq.
With the increasing attacks on international agencies and troops, President Bush reportedly has told the Pentagon do to do whatever it takes to put more Iraqi police on the streets, even if it means less training. Despite the ongoing attacks, the Bush administration keeps saying on a day-to-day basis that life in Iraq is greatly improved.

Here with two perspectives, two United States members of Congress who recently were in Iraq, Republican Katherine Harris of Florida and Democrat Ellen Tauscher of California. Thanks very much for joining us.

Congresswoman Harris, first of all, to you. just got back from Iraq. You were there. You were near the Al Rasheed Hotel just before the bombing. How scared were you while you were in Iraq?

REP. KATHERINE HARRIS (R), FLORIDA: We were actually in the Al Rasheed Hotel. But we had met with several high-ranking women. One of the women on the Governing Council.

It's a difficult place right now, but I think the most compelling emotion I came back with was the fact that our cause truly is just and moral. Twelve years ago we encouraged the Iraqis to stand up against Saddam and then we left them, whether it was for U.N. resolutions that didn't allow us to go to Baghdad. But that was tantamount to a betrayal.

And now, after seven months and some great successes by our troops, they are beginning to believe us again. You can see it in their faces.

BLITZER: You came back passionately convince that was the U.S. is doing with its coalition partners is absolutely right, and the worst thing the U.S. could do would simply be to cut its losses and run?

HARRIS: Absolutely. The Iraqis are terrified that we'll leave them now. They are not ready. Many of them feel to have this kind of diverse, representative government, where they're going to really honor the dignity of men, women and children alike. So they're so concerned about that, but very grateful that we're there.

BLITZER: Did you come back with the same impression when you were in Iraq, Congresswoman Tauscher?

REP. ELLEN TAUSCHER (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I came back believing we are in a very dire situation. Certainly parts of the country have been secured. The north and the south are much more secure.

But in that Sunni triangle around Baghdad, where 70 percent of the Iraqi citizens live, it's a very, very dangerous place. It's a volatile place that has been further destabilized over the last few months. And I believe that it is necessary for us to have the administration be forthcoming about what it is going to take for us to rotate some of our troops out, bring fresh troops in.

We don't have any troops coming from our allies and friends around the world. The Bangladeshis said they're not putting them in; the Turks aren't putting them in. The Pakistanis aren't putting them in.

BLITZER: But you don't want the U.S. to simply pull out?

TAUSCHER: I don't think anybody with any credibility is suggesting that we leave. But I think what is clear is that, all the happy talk aside about people going to school and businesses opening, this is a much more volatile situation than we had just after the war, and certainly prior to the war. That we did not have a plan after the military victory, which was frankly never in doubt.

BLITZER: So bottom line, was it a mistake, the whole war?

TAUSCHER: I think that we needed to go to the U.N. and peaceably disarm Saddam Hussein and contain him, that we needed to build a coalition of the capable, not a coalition of the willing.

BLITZER: Let me let Congresswoman Harris respond to that. Go ahead.

HARRIS: Well, I was only going to say that now in terms of the destabilization -- I mean, Poland was stable under Hitler. But the point is, we need to free the Iraqis; we need to give them the kind of liberty. And that's going to the take with all the terrorists pouring in, whether it's the Wahabis or the extreme fundamentalists, it's going to take awhile.

And now we have over 100,000 Iraqis that are signing up to be security officers and police officers, knowing they are putting their lives on the line. And they are willing to do that now because they want to have their country back.

BLITZER: We've got a caller. Joe in Georgia -- Joe, go ahead. You're on the air.

CALLER: Thank you very much, Wolf. Great show.

Congresswoman Harris, aren't you real excited about the news about the economy? The GDP grew 7.2 percent the third quarter. Isn't that going to make it a lot easier to finance the war? Isn't that great, exciting news for the economy? HARRIS: It's fantastic news. And I understand it's the highest it's been since 1984. So we're very excited, and with that kind of growth and revenues obviously we're going to be able to better afford to fight the war on terrorism and liberate the Iraqi people.

BLITZER: Is this a one-shot deal, you think, Congresswoman Tauscher, or have the tax cuts, have the investments, have the Bush administration policies made a difference to jump-start this economy?

TAUSCHER: Look, I spent 14 years on Wall Street as a very small child, and I will tell you that there are these blimps in the economy. I'm impressed that this is happening. But I want to know where the jobs are, where the job increases are. And I'm not seeing them. And I certainly think back home in California, where we have a catastrophic fire and an economy that is not restarting, we are not seeing that the economy is doing better.

BLITZER: The accusation is this is a jobless recovery.

HARRIS: Arnold is back though, in California. He's coming back.

We had 57,000 new jobs in September. And again, when you see this kind of economic growth, jobs are a lagging indicator. And so I think you're going to continue to see the tax credits -- the two largest economic booms in our nation's history were after the tax credits of both John F. Kennedy and President Reagan.

BLITZER: You met this morning with top Bush administration officials. What was the sense that you got from them as far as Iraq is concerned? Are they readjusting their strategy in the aftermath of these continued terrorist attacks?

HARRIS: I certainly think they are and they are being very sensitive to it. They are very interested in our trip. And it was rather historic that we met with some of the women, since they comprise 61 percent of the population, how they were going to interact in the Governing council and writing of the new constitution.

But, yes, they are being responsive to the terrorist attacks and how we are dealing with it. They're constantly reevaluating. And I think they are going to have some different opportunities for the troops.

BLITZER: Let's take another caller. Amanda, go ahead. You are on the air.

CALLER: My question is for Katherine Harris. Did you get the opportunity to speak with the Iraqi women and encourage them to follow your lead in going into public office so that they, too, could disenfranchise voters?

BLITZER: And Ellen Tauscher's lead as well. Go ahead.

HARRIS: We had a great opportunity to meet with many of the women. Not only the high-ranking women, but also very, very important women within the communities themselves, so that we went to the arts and cultural center and we sat and talked with them first hand so it would help them empower themselves and look to the role models so that they can get involved and engaged in the government and local politics. Today, six women are on the Iraqi Baghdad Governing Council, which is -- out of 31, which is a better statistic than we are in Congress.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Tauscher, you were there in Iraq. You met with women as well. Is the situation improving for average women in Iraq?

TAUSCHER: I don't think the situation can improve if they can't go to the market or they can't send their kids to school or they can't start jobs.

BLITZER: But in the north or in the south they can.

TAUSCHER: In the north or in the south they can.

BLITZER: In the Sunni triangle, that's the most populous part of Iraq, around Baghdad.

TAUSCHER: It's the most populous area, but still very, very dangerous. The key issue I think here is that how quickly can the United States turn over governing to the Iraqi people. How quickly can we empower them? And that's one of the reasons, frankly, why we are having a hard time having our allies bring more troops and support us with money.

We only got $13 billion raised at the Madrid donors' conference. And partly, that's because we are not turning over power quickly.

BLITZER: Look, there's no doubt with the U.N. pulling out, the Red Cross pulling out, you can't expect other countries to start anxiously wanting to go back into Iraq or to help the United States in a dangerous environment like that.

HARRIS: Obviously, that was a real disappointment, because there are safer areas both in the north and south that the Red Cross and the U.N. could go to. But I did want to point out...

BLITZER: I don't think they are pulling out of the north and the south. They're just pulling out around Baghdad.

HARRIS: I did want to point out one very exciting development. There were women training to be security officers so that they could actually examine the women, not having men secure (ph) women. And the exciting point was they were being trained until their budget was cut.

And we went there. We went to the administrator and said these women needed to be hired. And this week, 13 were hired.

So this is right there in Baghdad. And this is the first time these women had opportunities to work. So they're putting classes through.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, because we want to continue this conversation. But we're going to take a quick break.

Two congresswomen just back from Iraq. We're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Katherine Harris (UNINTELLIGIBLE) immediate priority right now?

HARRIS: That we must stay and secure the freedom and liberty for the Iraqi people. We can't sacrifice those efforts on the altar of international public opinion.

BLITZER: Ellen Tauscher?

TAUSCHER: We need to internationalize and regionalize this effort so that people are sharing the burden of getting killed and paying for this. This is an extraordinary amount of money; we are borrowing it from our children. But we need to keep the peace, make the peace, and get this region stabilized.

It will be a beacon of hope, I think, for the region. But we are far from that point right now.

BLITZER: Everybody agrees it's going to be difficult in the period ahead.

HARRIS: But great opportunities.

BLITZER: All right. Katherine Harris, thanks so much for joining us.

HARRIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Ellen Tauscher, always good to have you on the program.

We'll have both of you back. Good discussion. We'll continue this dialogue.

TAUSCHER: Thank you very much.

HARRIS: Thank you very much.







Aired October 30, 2003 - 12:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: A matter of security. The United Nations has pulled its international staff out of Baghdad, at least temporarily. The move comes two months after a car bomb targeted the U.N. headquarters there, killing 22 U.N. workers. Staffers remain on the job in other parts of Iraq.
With the increasing attacks on international agencies and troops, President Bush reportedly has told the Pentagon do to do whatever it takes to put more Iraqi police on the streets, even if it means less training. Despite the ongoing attacks, the Bush administration keeps saying on a day-to-day basis that life in Iraq is greatly improved.

Here with two perspectives, two United States members of Congress who recently were in Iraq, Republican Katherine Harris of Florida and Democrat Ellen Tauscher of California. Thanks very much for joining us.

Congresswoman Harris, first of all, to you. just got back from Iraq. You were there. You were near the Al Rasheed Hotel just before the bombing. How scared were you while you were in Iraq?

REP. KATHERINE HARRIS (R), FLORIDA: We were actually in the Al Rasheed Hotel. But we had met with several high-ranking women. One of the women on the Governing Council.

It's a difficult place right now, but I think the most compelling emotion I came back with was the fact that our cause truly is just and moral. Twelve years ago we encouraged the Iraqis to stand up against Saddam and then we left them, whether it was for U.N. resolutions that didn't allow us to go to Baghdad. But that was tantamount to a betrayal.

And now, after seven months and some great successes by our troops, they are beginning to believe us again. You can see it in their faces.

BLITZER: You came back passionately convince that was the U.S. is doing with its coalition partners is absolutely right, and the worst thing the U.S. could do would simply be to cut its losses and run?

HARRIS: Absolutely. The Iraqis are terrified that we'll leave them now. They are not ready. Many of them feel to have this kind of diverse, representative government, where they're going to really honor the dignity of men, women and children alike. So they're so concerned about that, but very grateful that we're there.

BLITZER: Did you come back with the same impression when you were in Iraq, Congresswoman Tauscher?

REP. ELLEN TAUSCHER (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I came back believing we are in a very dire situation. Certainly parts of the country have been secured. The north and the south are much more secure.

But in that Sunni triangle around Baghdad, where 70 percent of the Iraqi citizens live, it's a very, very dangerous place. It's a volatile place that has been further destabilized over the last few months. And I believe that it is necessary for us to have the administration be forthcoming about what it is going to take for us to rotate some of our troops out, bring fresh troops in.

We don't have any troops coming from our allies and friends around the world. The Bangladeshis said they're not putting them in; the Turks aren't putting them in. The Pakistanis aren't putting them in.

BLITZER: But you don't want the U.S. to simply pull out?

TAUSCHER: I don't think anybody with any credibility is suggesting that we leave. But I think what is clear is that, all the happy talk aside about people going to school and businesses opening, this is a much more volatile situation than we had just after the war, and certainly prior to the war. That we did not have a plan after the military victory, which was frankly never in doubt.

BLITZER: So bottom line, was it a mistake, the whole war?

TAUSCHER: I think that we needed to go to the U.N. and peaceably disarm Saddam Hussein and contain him, that we needed to build a coalition of the capable, not a coalition of the willing.

BLITZER: Let me let Congresswoman Harris respond to that. Go ahead.

HARRIS: Well, I was only going to say that now in terms of the destabilization -- I mean, Poland was stable under Hitler. But the point is, we need to free the Iraqis; we need to give them the kind of liberty. And that's going to the take with all the terrorists pouring in, whether it's the Wahabis or the extreme fundamentalists, it's going to take awhile.

And now we have over 100,000 Iraqis that are signing up to be security officers and police officers, knowing they are putting their lives on the line. And they are willing to do that now because they want to have their country back.

BLITZER: We've got a caller. Joe in Georgia -- Joe, go ahead. You're on the air.

CALLER: Thank you very much, Wolf. Great show.

Congresswoman Harris, aren't you real excited about the news about the economy? The GDP grew 7.2 percent the third quarter. Isn't that going to make it a lot easier to finance the war? Isn't that great, exciting news for the economy? HARRIS: It's fantastic news. And I understand it's the highest it's been since 1984. So we're very excited, and with that kind of growth and revenues obviously we're going to be able to better afford to fight the war on terrorism and liberate the Iraqi people.

BLITZER: Is this a one-shot deal, you think, Congresswoman Tauscher, or have the tax cuts, have the investments, have the Bush administration policies made a difference to jump-start this economy?

TAUSCHER: Look, I spent 14 years on Wall Street as a very small child, and I will tell you that there are these blimps in the economy. I'm impressed that this is happening. But I want to know where the jobs are, where the job increases are. And I'm not seeing them. And I certainly think back home in California, where we have a catastrophic fire and an economy that is not restarting, we are not seeing that the economy is doing better.

BLITZER: The accusation is this is a jobless recovery.

HARRIS: Arnold is back though, in California. He's coming back.

We had 57,000 new jobs in September. And again, when you see this kind of economic growth, jobs are a lagging indicator. And so I think you're going to continue to see the tax credits -- the two largest economic booms in our nation's history were after the tax credits of both John F. Kennedy and President Reagan.

BLITZER: You met this morning with top Bush administration officials. What was the sense that you got from them as far as Iraq is concerned? Are they readjusting their strategy in the aftermath of these continued terrorist attacks?

HARRIS: I certainly think they are and they are being very sensitive to it. They are very interested in our trip. And it was rather historic that we met with some of the women, since they comprise 61 percent of the population, how they were going to interact in the Governing council and writing of the new constitution.

But, yes, they are being responsive to the terrorist attacks and how we are dealing with it. They're constantly reevaluating. And I think they are going to have some different opportunities for the troops.

BLITZER: Let's take another caller. Amanda, go ahead. You are on the air.

CALLER: My question is for Katherine Harris. Did you get the opportunity to speak with the Iraqi women and encourage them to follow your lead in going into public office so that they, too, could disenfranchise voters?

BLITZER: And Ellen Tauscher's lead as well. Go ahead.

HARRIS: We had a great opportunity to meet with many of the women. Not only the high-ranking women, but also very, very important women within the communities themselves, so that we went to the arts and cultural center and we sat and talked with them first hand so it would help them empower themselves and look to the role models so that they can get involved and engaged in the government and local politics. Today, six women are on the Iraqi Baghdad Governing Council, which is -- out of 31, which is a better statistic than we are in Congress.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Tauscher, you were there in Iraq. You met with women as well. Is the situation improving for average women in Iraq?

TAUSCHER: I don't think the situation can improve if they can't go to the market or they can't send their kids to school or they can't start jobs.

BLITZER: But in the north or in the south they can.

TAUSCHER: In the north or in the south they can.

BLITZER: In the Sunni triangle, that's the most populous part of Iraq, around Baghdad.

TAUSCHER: It's the most populous area, but still very, very dangerous. The key issue I think here is that how quickly can the United States turn over governing to the Iraqi people. How quickly can we empower them? And that's one of the reasons, frankly, why we are having a hard time having our allies bring more troops and support us with money.

We only got $13 billion raised at the Madrid donors' conference. And partly, that's because we are not turning over power quickly.

BLITZER: Look, there's no doubt with the U.N. pulling out, the Red Cross pulling out, you can't expect other countries to start anxiously wanting to go back into Iraq or to help the United States in a dangerous environment like that.

HARRIS: Obviously, that was a real disappointment, because there are safer areas both in the north and south that the Red Cross and the U.N. could go to. But I did want to point out...

BLITZER: I don't think they are pulling out of the north and the south. They're just pulling out around Baghdad.

HARRIS: I did want to point out one very exciting development. There were women training to be security officers so that they could actually examine the women, not having men secure (ph) women. And the exciting point was they were being trained until their budget was cut.

And we went there. We went to the administrator and said these women needed to be hired. And this week, 13 were hired.

So this is right there in Baghdad. And this is the first time these women had opportunities to work. So they're putting classes through.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, because we want to continue this conversation. But we're going to take a quick break.

Two congresswomen just back from Iraq. We're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Katherine Harris (UNINTELLIGIBLE) immediate priority right now?

HARRIS: That we must stay and secure the freedom and liberty for the Iraqi people. We can't sacrifice those efforts on the altar of international public opinion.

BLITZER: Ellen Tauscher?

TAUSCHER: We need to internationalize and regionalize this effort so that people are sharing the burden of getting killed and paying for this. This is an extraordinary amount of money; we are borrowing it from our children. But we need to keep the peace, make the peace, and get this region stabilized.

It will be a beacon of hope, I think, for the region. But we are far from that point right now.

BLITZER: Everybody agrees it's going to be difficult in the period ahead.

HARRIS: But great opportunities.

BLITZER: All right. Katherine Harris, thanks so much for joining us.

HARRIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Ellen Tauscher, always good to have you on the program.

We'll have both of you back. Good discussion. We'll continue this dialogue.

TAUSCHER: Thank you very much.

HARRIS: Thank you very much.