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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Gary Ridgway Admits to Killing 48 Women; President Bush Signs Legislation to Ban Partial-Birth Abortions

Aired November 5, 2003 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): A court blocks an anti- abortion bill before the ink on the from the president's signature is dry.

New sex drug cocktails promise to boost the female libido.

What's on the secret Princess Diana tapes the royals don't want you to see.

CBS caves to criticism of its Ronald Reagan TV movie. What's the fallout?

And fish on Prozac? Could the fish you are eating be dosed on drugs?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And a good evening. Thanks for joining us on 360.

A watershed moment in the battle over abortion. The president signs into law the first new federal restrictions on abortion since Roe v. Wade. He is vowing to fight hard to enforce it and the battle is moving to the courts. We'll have that story in just a moment.

First, though, a chilling confession in a Seattle, Washington courtroom. In a plea deal, one man admits to killing 48 women and becomes the nation's deadliest serial killer on record. CNN's Gary Tuchman has more on his courtroom confession.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gary Leon Ridgway has officially admitted he's the Green River killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you plead to the charge of aggravated murder in the first degree, as charged in count one, for the death of Wendy Lee Caufield (ph)?

GARY RIDGWAY, DEFENDANT: Guilty. TUCHMAN: Over the next eight minutes, Ridgway said guilty 47 more times. He listened as the prosecutor read a statement the mass murder wrote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Most of the time I killed them the first time I met them, and I do not have a good memory for their faces. I killed so many women, I have a hard time keeping them straight."

Is that true?

RIDGWAY: Yes, it is.

TUCHMAN: The 54-year-old former truck painter said in his statement he hated prostitutes and didn't want to pay them for sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed."

TUCHMAN: The 48 total murder convictions means he has admitted responsibility for more killings than anyone in U.S. legal history. But Ridgway won't get the death penalty. Prosecutors say he's been cooperative, confessing to virtually all the Green River killings and accompanying investigators to find three bodies this summer.

So a deal was made. Life in prison without parole. Opal Mills (ph) was one of the first victims killed in 1982. Her mother was against the plea bargain but now says...

KATHY MILLS, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I think we can let go of it now and it will be OK. In a little while it will be OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: Gary Ridgway's attorneys acknowledge their client may have even killed more women, but say his memory isn't so good. As it is, Ridgway has admitted to 43 of the 49 official Green River killings and five additional killings that weren't on the list, for a total of 48. He'll be officially sentenced this spring and his attorneys say at that sentencing, he will apologize to the victims' families -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman, thanks for that. And we'll talk to some of his attorneys coming up. We'll have more on the Green River killing, the real story behind Ridgway's confessions. You'll hear an exclusive interview with his three attorneys about the plea deal and their client's past and his future.

Ridgway will not be facing the death penalty, as Gary mentioned, unlike some other notorious serial killers. Here's a fast fact for you. Gerald Eugene Stano (ph) confessed to killing 41 women and girls between 1974 and 1981. He was executed in Florida in 1998.

John Wayne Gacy of suburban Chicago killed 33 young men and boys between 1972 and 1978. He was executed in 1994.

And we should point out, California's notorious Zodiac killer, who claimed responsibility for killing 37 people, beginning in 1966, has never been captured.

On to the explosive debate over abortion. With the stroke of a pen today, President Bush signed into law a ban on a late-term procedure that critics call partial-birth abortion. It is a bitter defeat for those who fear abortion rights are in jeopardy, but the fight is not over. Now the battleground has moved to the courts.

Senior White House correspondent John King has the latest -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, already tonight, one federal judge in Nebraska has signed a temporary ruling that questions the constitutionality of the new law. A federal judge in New York could follow as early as tonight. A reminder; this is both a difficult legal issue and a highly emotional political debate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president proudly signed into law the first new federal restrictions on abortion since the landmark Roe V. Wade decision 30 years ago. Tearing up moments earlier, Mr. Bush offered his personal view of the broader abortion debate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This right to life cannot be granted or denied by government because it does not come from government. It comes from the creator of life.

KING: The new law bans what opponents call partial birth abortion, a relatively rare procedure in which a fetus is partially delivered before being killed.

BUSH: Our nation owes its children a different and better welcome.

KING: Mr. Bush promised to vigorously defend the new restrictions in the court. And within an hour of the signing ceremony, a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary order protecting four abortion doctors challenging the new law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is simply no difference in this bill and the ones they've already found unconstitutional.

KING: The new legal battle is unlikely to reach the Supreme Court until after next year's presidential election. And abortion rights advocates say they will use the campaign to cast the law as just a first step.

KATE MICHELMAN, NATIONAL ABORTION RIGHTS ACTION LEAGUE: This president is willing to use the power of office to take away a woman's right to choose.

KING: Mr. Bush says, despite his personal views, the country is not ready to outlaw most abortions.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KING: And as the president made crystal clear today, he supports this new policy. His political team also thinks it's very good politics for this president. He has from day one maintained that keeping support and keeping the faith with the Republican conservative base is a number one priority. The White House believes this will generate high turnout among Christian conservatives critical next year -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. John King, that's for the update.

We turn now to Iraq. Today, two survivors of the single deadliest attack of the war spoke out. They were onboard that Chinook helicopter shot down Sunday near Fallujah. Fifteen soldiers killed, more than two dozen hurt.

Now, they spoke from Landstuhl, Germany, where the wounded are being treated. Here's how Sergeant Christopher Nelson described the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. CHRISTOPHER NELSON, SURVIVED CHINOOK ATTACK: I was in the aircraft and I heard a loud boom. After I heard the sound, I closed my eyes and I prayed. And after that, I don't know what happened, because I blanked out. And I woke up and I was on the ground and there was a lot of debris around me. There were people trying to rescue us out of the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the chopper attack has increased calls by some critics of the war that U.S. troops should get out of Iraq. Today, Senator and Vietnam war hero, John McCain, warned that a premature exit would help terrorists and threaten American leadership. He says -- and I quote -- "Victory can be our only exit strategy." He also said the White House hasn't put enough boots on the ground to finish the mission.

And the latest news on upcoming troop deployments may not make the senator any happier. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has approved a troop rotation plan that would send 100,000 fresh troops to Iraq early next year. That would be a decrease from the approximately 130,000 U.S. troops now in Iraq.

On Capitol Hill, an ugly fight has erupted over a secret memo that is secret no more. Republicans say it shows the Democrats are hell-bent on politicizing the issue of Iraq, of Iraq intelligence gathered before the war. The Democrats say the Republicans are playing down and dirty and want to know just how they got hold of the memo.

Congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl has both sides.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out of the secretive Senate Intelligence Committee, which is under 24-hour guard, a memo written by Democratic staff has leaked out, outlining a political strategy for the probe of pre-war intelligence on Iraq.

"We have an important role to play," the memo says, "in revealing the misleading, if not flagrantly dishonest, methods and motives of senior administration officials who made the case." Republicans say the memo is proof positive that Democrats want to use the traditionally nonpartisan intelligence committee to score political points.

SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: It is a disgusting possibility that members of the Senate would actually try to politicize intelligence, especially at a time of war.

KARL: But the top Democrat on the committee is outraged for an entirely different reason, suggesting there should be yet another investigation, a probe into whether Republicans stole a confidential Democratic memo and leaked it to the press.

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), WEST VIRGINIA: It raises serious questions about whether the majority is obtaining unauthorized access to private internal materials of the minority.

KARL: Rockefeller says the memo was either taken off Democratic computers or fished out of the trash. Did Republicans steal the memo?

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE CHAIR: No. I'm not wearing a cloak or a dagger.

KARL (on camera): Democrats say the memo, however it was obtained, reflects their belief that Republicans are more interested in protecting the president than investigating whether the administration distorted pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So it goes, back and forth.

Let's see what's happening now "Cross Country."

Boston, Massachusetts: bus station shooting. At least one person is dead, four other wounded. The shooting happened in the city's Roxbury (ph) neighborhood. The suspected gunman is in custody.

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: baseball player accused. A judge says this man, Ramone Castro, a backup catcher for the Florida Marlins, will stand trial on rape charges. Castro is accused of raping a woman in a hotel after a game in August. His lawyer says his client did not do it and has the proof on the hotel's surveillance tapes.

Charlotte, North Carolina: prison time. The wife of former NFL running back Fred Lane (ph) is sentenced to almost eight years behind bars for his shooting death. The Carolina Panthers player was killed in July 2000. His wife pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter in August after her lawyer said she was a battered wife. Today, the judge said the killing was premeditated and cold-blooded.

Washington, D.C.: another leap for mankind. After a 26-year-old space journey, NASA says Voyager I is saying good-bye to our solar system. Get this; it's still sending back data. The milestone marks the first time a man-made object has traveled over 8 billion miles to the final frontier.

And that's a look at stories "Cross Country" tonight -- and cross galaxies.

Fish on Prozac? No, it's not some obscure band. Find out how underwater life is being contaminated by human depression.

:Plus, female sex drugs. Find out why more women are turning to pills to turn on their love lives.

And those princess Diana tapes. The secret videos that are apparently rocking the royal family.

But first, let's take a quick look "Inside the Box" at the top stories on tonight's network newscasts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We want to take you to Galveston, Texas. Closing arguments in the murder trial of millionaire Robert Durst. Now this case from the beginning seemed ready made for a bad film noir.

An eccentric real estate heir who had been posing as a woman accused of killing and butchering his neighbor. Was it self-defense, as Durst says, or cold-blooded murder?

Here's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN DALLAS BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Robert Durst says Morris Black was accidentally killed in self-defense while both men struggled for a gun. It wasn't poetic. But this is how prosecutors summed up what they thought of that story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Morris Black was here right now, he'd be saying, I'm thinking two words, Robert Durst, and one of them is bull.

LAVANDERA: Defense attorneys say Durst came to Galveston disguised as a woman to escape the New York prosecutors who suspected he might have been involved in his first wife's disappearance. Prosecutors say the New York millionaire beat up and shot Morris Black, his elderly neighbor, as part of a plan to assume Black's identity, and then sliced Black's body into pieces to make the man disappear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morris Black in his own way became a solution to this man's problem. A solution that was handled by murdering Morris Black.

LAVANDERA: Defense attorneys say that makes no sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we've got a zillionaire with all the money in the world to buy whatever identity he wants to buy from anywhere at any price. And they want you to think that he came here to Galveston in order to cut out of the pack a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like Morris Black.

LAVANDERA: Defense attorneys describe Black as an angry, volatile man, and that Robert Durst had to be scared for his life when he found Black in his apartment holding a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob Durst is not guilty of murder. Whatever else he may have done is for another time and place.

LAVANDERA: Robert Durst apparently feels good, as he quickly flashed his thumbs up as he left the courtroom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Closing arguments lasted most of the day. So the jury only deliberated a short time before going home for the night. They'll come back tomorrow morning and start deliberating again at 8:30 in the morning Central Time. If Durst is found guilty, he could be sent to prison for the rest of his life -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. We'll be following that closely. Ed Lavandera, thanks.

And when we saw the headline, "Happy Fish on Prozac," we thought to ourselves, will this outbreak of pill-induced contentment ever stop? Adults, kids, dogs, and now even the fish are on Prozac. Well, yes, it seems that when we humans use Prozac and other prescription drugs, we end up doping our finned friends as well to the gills.

Here's CNN's Bruce Burkhardt.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): All those drugs we take, heart medications, birth control pills, antidepressants like Prozac, in one way or another, they end up going down here, which means eventually those pharmaceuticals wind up here. Bottom line, there might be a lot of fish out there on Prozac.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "FINDING NEMO": I'm feeling happy.

BURKHARDT: But happy fish, like this one portrayed in the movie "Finding Nemo," are not necessarily a good thing.

PROF. BRYAN BROOKS, BAYLOR UNIVERSITY TOXICOLOGIST: We need to ask the question, what does accumulation in fish issues, for example, actually mean to the organism's ability to live, grow or reproduce.

BURKHARDT: Bryan Brooks, a toxicologist at Baylor University, and a team of researchers, tested fish near a sewage treatment plant in Denton, Texas. The plant discharges its treated water into the nearby Pecan Creek (ph). In this and other studies, the fish, it turns out, were nearly as doped up as we were.

BROOKS: Heart medications and steroids, for example, active ingredients found in many birth control medications.

BURKHARDT: The concern, and where more studies are needed, is that these drugs might affect the fish's ability to reproduce or even avoid predators, thus upsetting the entire ecology of an aquatic system. It's too early to tell if humans may be affected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have sewage entering from both sides of this stream.

BURKHARDT: Most sewage treatment plants, like this one in Atlanta, do an effective job at cleaning sewage before pumping it back into a river.

(on camera): But this sewage treatment plant, just like every other plant in the country, is not equipped to test for or remove pharmaceuticals. Until just recently, no one even knew that it might be a problem.

(voice-over): But with the popularity of such prescriptions as Prozac and birth control pills, new treatments might be needed. Family planning might be OK for humans, but not fish.

Bruce Burkhardt, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And they don't even look very happy.

Let's see what's happening around the world right now in tonight's "UpLink."

Rome's soccer dope. The Italian Olympic Committee says Libyan leader Muammar Khadafi's son has tested positive for a performance- enhancing steroid. Sadi Khadafi (ph) recently signed Italy's top soccer club. That's him on the left.

London: spider-man splits. A man dressed in a spider-man costume -- there he is -- he climbed down today from a construction crane where he barricaded himself for six days, causing traffic chaos. David Chick (ph) was demonstrating for divorced fathers' rights.

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: bare at the beach. Rio's first legal nude beach is now open, ending a nine-year legal standoff between Brazil's environment and justice departments. Nudists have frequent the beach for 40 years, but now they can strut their stuff without police interference.

And that is tonight's "UpLink."

Female sex drugs: the search for a miracle pill. Find out why more women are getting into the act.

Also tonight, the Reagan controversy. Political pressure and network programming collide. What went on behind the scenes?

And a little later: confessions of a serial killer. We'll talk to the lawyers of Gary Ridgway in an exclusive interview.

But first, today's buzz. In the case of the Green River serial killer, which serves just more, getting his confession or giving him the death penalty? What do you think?

Vote now: cnn.com/360. We'll show you the results at the end of the program.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, apparently that little blue pill -- you know the one I'm talking about -- is not just for men anymore. Yes, Viagra is being given increasingly to women to improve their sex lives. It is one of a handful of prescription drugs that doctors are using to help the estimated 43 percent of women who suffer from some kind of sexual problem.

Here's CNN's Christy Feig.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTY FEIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how Joanne Dorman (ph) described sex before Viagra.

JOANNE DORMAN, TRIED VIAGRA: It was more of a job or a task.

FEIG: But after Viagra...

DORMAN: It's fabulous. It's an enjoyable moment of our life.

FEIG: That was three years ago. Viagra has since stopped working for her. In fact, it doesn't work for most women.

For men, the problem is more mechanical, an issue of blood flow, whereas for women it's not so simple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are mind, body and relationship issues that are relatively complicated. They require sex therapy, physical therapy, sometimes medical therapies, hormonal therapies to really get at the entire problem.

FEIG: So not surprising, antidepressants, such as Welbutrin (ph), have some success in boosting sex drives. And the most prescribed treatment for women is testosterone. Levels drop in half between the ages of 20 and 40.

This woman, who asked not to be identified, said she lost interest in sex. She was then found to have low testosterone and started supplements. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly, when I would look at someone that was attractive or something that was sexually stimulating, I started feeling things that I never felt before.

FEIG: Still, the male hormone has masculine side effects such as hair growth and deepening of the voice. Clearly not the magic pill. But for now, most importantly, women are starting to speak up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a right to sexual health. If you are distressed with your sexual problem, become empowered and seek medical help.

FEIG: Christy Feig, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): The chilling confession of the Green River killer.

Not ready for prime time. The Reagan TV movie.

And what secrets are on the Princess Diana tape?

We'll be right back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: All right. Let's "Reset" some of tonight's top stories.

The Bush administration says it will vigorously enforce a new late-term anti-abortion law signed by President Bush earlier today. It is the first federal limit on a type of abortion since Roe v. Wade. Within hours of the signing, a Nebraska judge blocked enforcement of the law against four doctors who filed suit.

The creators of two highly destructive computer viruses have a price on their heads. Microsoft is offering bounties of $250,000 each for information leading to the arrest of whoever launched the blaster worm and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) email bugs.

The man called the Green River killer admitted in court today to murdering 48 women in the Seattle, Washington area in the 1980s. Prosecutors agreed to spare Gary Leon Ridgway the death penalty in exchange for information on where missing victims' remains are buried.

And that is a look at tonight's "Reset."

In "Justice Served," for the first time you are about to hear from Ridgway's defense team. Before we get their feedback on the case, let's hear Ridgway's eerie confession as read in court today and reaction from some victims' families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I wanted to kill as many women I thought were prostitutes as I possible could." Is that true?

RIDGWAY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your statement continues, "I picked prostitutes as my victims, because I hate most prostitutes. And I did not want to pay them for sex. I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed. I knew they would not be reported missing right away, and might never be reported missing. I picked prostitutes because I thought I could kill as many of them as I wanted without getting caught."

Is that true?

RIDGWAY: Yes.

DEANNA BREWER, SISTER OF VICTIM: My children will never know their aunt. I will never get to see what she would have became. There is nothing that could ever happen to that man that will ever bring back any of our daughters, moms, aunts or anybody. Nothing. No amount of pain will ever be equal enough to what he's done to these women.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, we go live to Seattle for an exclusive interview with Ridgway's lawyers, Anthony Savage, Mark Prothero and Todd Gruenhagen.

Gentleman, appreciate you all joining us.

Mark, I want to start off with you. Has Ridgway expressed remorse at all?

MARK PROTHERO, RIDGWAY ATTORNEY: Yes, in our conversations, he has frequently expressed sincere remorse.

COOPER: What has he said?

PROTHERO: Well, I'm not going to go into specifics of exactly what he said. He will make a statement at the time of sentencing, summarizing his feelings.

COOPER: What kind of guy is he? I mean, you've worked with him, I think, for some two years now.

PROTHERO: Yes.

COOPER: What's your take on him? What's he like?

PROTHERO: He's really a very pleasant man, one on one, at this day and age. He was always very polite, never displayed any anger. We got along very well, and he was a very -- very nice client.

COOPER: Tony, let me ask you, were you surprised that the prosecution accepted a plea deal?

TONY SAVAGE, RIDGWAY ATTORNEY: Yes, I was. Prosecutor Maleng had previously stated that he wasn't going to bargain in this case for the death penalty, so I was surprised and, of course, extremely pleased when he changed his position.

COOPER: Todd, why do you think they agreed to the plea?

TODD GRUENHAGEN, RIDGWAY ATTORNEY: Well, I think there were probably many contributing factors. Most significantly, I would expect an attempt to answer questions for the surviving family members of the victims.

It also provides an opportunity for the King County Police to close cases and know which cases that are open and under investigation that they can't close.

COOPER: Mark, did Ridgway seem to fear death to you? I mean, did he talk about fear, not fearing the death penalty?

PROTHERO: No, not really in those terms. And I don't want to get into details of those types of discussions I had with Gary. But no more than, you know, you or I. That was not something that came up.

COOPER: And, I mean, I don't know if you can talk about it. Does he talk about going to prison, about what his life will be like in prison?

PROTHERO: No, other than he would prefer life in prison as opposed to death.

COOPER: Todd, what was his wife Judith's involvement in the case?

GRUENHAGEN: Well, a spouse that didn't know everything about her husband. I mean, he had a separate existence that he kept from everybody. So she was in the dark.

COOPER: And, Mark, what comes next? When will he be sentenced?

PROTHERO: We have agreed with the prosecutors to make that decision in a couple of weeks. Review -- kind of sit back and think what more needs to be done, how much time that's going to take.

Gary has agreed to cooperate and will continue to cooperate and provide as much information as he can possibly provide. And he's agreed to do that for up to six months, much longer than the typical time between plea and sentencing.

So if the detectives and the prosecutors feel they need, you know, additional time to interview him, Gary is willing to cooperate. And so sentencing won't be until some time, you know, we assume, after the first of the year or beyond.

COOPER: Do you think there could be other women out there that he killed that he just can't remember?

PROTHERO: Well, indeed, he led the police to other sites where he had told them he had left bodies, and those are still open investigations in the situations where they were not able to find anything. They're not closing the book on those. That's what part of this process between plea and sentencing is going to be about, is trying to answer some of those questions.

COOPER: All right. Mark Prothero, Todd Gruenhagen, Anthony Savage, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

PROTHERO: You're welcome.

GRUENHAGEN: You're welcome.

COOPER: Just what would prompt someone to kill so many people? Remember, Ridgway has confessed to 48 murders, the largest killing spree in U.S. history.

Pat Brown, the author of "Killing for Sport: Inside the Mind of Serial Killers," joins us tonight with her perspective on this case. She is a criminal profiler.

Pat, thanks for being with us. You heard his attorney Mark saying, you know, he seemed like a nice guy basically.

PAT BROWN, "KILLING FOR SPORT" AUTHOR: Real sweet. And I think all those dead woman would sure agree with that. It's always ludicrous when somebody says that. Anybody can be nice to whomever they want to be nice when they want to be nice.

I want to comment something about Ridgway. He's killed so many women, quite frankly, he can't remember half of the of woman he killed. If he can't remember them, how come he remembers these 48? You know? Isn't that a kind of...

COOPER: You're thinking maybe he's exaggerating the amount of people he killed for some sort of -- why would he exaggerate?

BROWN: Well, why not? Because it gets you out of the death penalty. Gets you nice life in prison. Gets you books; it gets you movies. Gets you the top of the "Guinness Book of World Records" for American serial killers convicted of serial homicide. I mean, he stands to gain everything from this plea bargain.

COOPER: Is there pride in the mind of some serial killers? They want to be the number one?

BROWN: Absolutely. Some of them actually say, you know, I'm counting up the numbers. And some of them, you know, actually do put down the numbers they get and they make progress doing that like the hillside stranglers did. Whether he was actually doing that or at this point in time he can brag about it.

I mean, he's got nothing to lose by bragging. He's got nothing to lose by having this wonderful relationship, by taking people out for little field trips and getting hamburgers and stuff while he's on the road. He's got nothing to lose by any of this.

What is lost is that, if he's going to confess to things he didn't do, and there isn't absolute evidence. As a matter of fact, if you think about it, if only seven of them had good enough evidence to go to trial and these other 41 cases did not, then why can he claim he committed all these 41 cases and the police be so sure he did it, if he wasn't good enough to go anywhere with it?

COOPER: Let me ask you in the time we have left, I mean, he killed largely prostitutes or alleged prostitutes, women he could pick up rather easily. He said -- he expressed a hatred for prostitutes today.

But apparently, I mean, I don't want to get too detailed, but I mean, apparently had sex with these people after they were killed. What do you think was going on in his mind?

BROWN: Well, he loved the power of having done this to these women. Whether he really hated them or not, that's what all serial killers say, because it justifies why they killed them. You have to say something. You can't say, "She was really a lovely woman, and that's why I killed her." So it's "I hate prostitutes; they're all bad women. And can't you understand why I do it?" Sure I can.

And then, once he's got that woman in his car, an easy victim, and he kills her, he likes to continue the power over her for as long as he can. Especially if he has a private place to do so. He can enjoy himself in that way, shall we say.

COOPER: All right. Well, he's avoided the death penalty.

BROWN: Yes, indeed.

COOPER: Pat Brown, appreciate you joining us tonight. It was interesting. Thank you.

BROWN: My pleasure.

COOPER: We have to weigh in -- You have a chance to weigh in on today's "Buzz Question." In the case of the Green River serial killer, which serves justice more, do you think, getting his confession or giving him the death penalty? Vote now, CNN.com/360. Results at the end of the program. So you have a couple more minutes to vote.

Fallout from "ROCK THE VOTE" coming up. Howard Dean on the defensive over the Confederate flag. Hear what he is saying about it today.

Also tonight, heavyweight political pressure. CBS dumps "The Reagans." What happened behind the scenes.

And a little later, Princess Diana's secret videotapes. Wonder why Diana's family wants to keep them from ever being released.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Love to get your e-mails. "Instant Feedback." Log on to CNN.com/360 and send us instant feedback any time. Just responding to some right now.

We hope you tuned in last night for "AMERICA ROCKS THE VOTE," our big event at Boston's Faneuil Hall with young voters and the Democratic candidates. It was quite an evening. We covered the hot political issues, had a few laughs, even made a little news.

Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean got pretty well beat up by the other contenders for a remark he made last week about Democrats failing to attract poor white voters in the South. He said he wanted to be the candidate for guys with, quote, "Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

He didn't apologize last night, but today he did offer the "R" word, regret.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I regret the pain that I may have caused to either African-American or Southern white voters in the beginning of this discussion. But we need to have this discussion in an honest, open way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was some of the serious stuff surrounding our event last night. But there was a lot of fun, as well.

Who would have thought that we'd get the Reverend Al Sharpton to admit he'd take a shine to Senator Kerry's wife? In case you missed it, consider this is the greatest hits of America Rocks the Vote. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want to Rock the Vote, you have to rock the boat. You have to rock the boat.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every single one of us ought to celebrate the Marlins beating the Yankees, and the reason it's extra special is that's the first legitimate victory out of Florida since 2000.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the fall of '65 I went to Georgetown University for a student conference and met another young guy from Arkansas. His name was Bill Clinton. And I knew he was going to run for president.

COOPER: Which of you are ready to admit to having used marijuana?

AMBASSADOR CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to answer. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the first thing going through your head the morning you wake up in the White House?

REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think the first thing going through my head will be to make sure that Bush has all his stuff out.

SEN. JOE LIBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hope my wife understands this. I'd like to party with the young lady who asked that question.

SHARPTON: The best person I've met in the campaign to party with? Mrs. Kerry. I'm sorry.

KERRY: I was going to choose Carol Moseley Braun, but now I'm going to have to choose you so I can keep an eye on my wife.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, that was some of the greatest hits from our event last night, "AMERICA ROCKS THE VOTE." It's going to be rebroadcast Sunday on CNN at 10 a.m. So you want to set your TiVo's or recorders for that.

"Midweek Crisis" tonight. Is the CBS decision, after a blistering hail of criticism from conservatives and Republicans not to air its controversial TV movie "The Reagans." Instead, the dramatization of Ronald Reagan's presidency, including the assassination attempt, will air on Showtime.

CBS denies caving to political pressure. Not everyone is convinced. Tonight we asked "Washington Post" TV critic Tom Shales to join us with his take. He joins us now.

Tom, thanks very much for being with us.

I want to show you this thing from Barbra Streisand's Web site, show the audience this. I want to read it out loud and then we'll have you commenting.

This is what she said: "This is censorship" -- this from Barbra Streisand -- "pure and simple. Well, maybe not all that pure. Censorship never is. Today marks a sad day for artistic freedom, one of the most important elements of an open and democratic society."

Tom, today are you mourning for the loss of artistic freedom?

TOM SHALES, "WASHINGTON POST" TV CRITIC: No, not yet. It's no more censorship, Anderson, than if you're going over your script for tonight's show and you go, "Nope, nope, nope, nope." Like that, you know.

It was an editorial decision, and I think a very good one. I think whatever happened, it has no political significance, particularly.

COOPER: So you don't think it was...

SHALES: Just a case of bad taste run riot.

COOPER: Well, what do you think happened. I mean, you're saying basically you don't think they were caving into political pressure. But do you think CBS kind of bought this show, didn't really know what they were getting, and then once they kind of read the fine print, there were, like, "This isn't very good"?

SHALES: Yes. I think someone screwed up on a massive, massive level. And either that or there was a dummy script or something, you know, that the producer sneaked one in on them.

We had heard this was going to be the love story of Ronald and Nancy Reagan. But I saw 10 minutes of this thing and it ain't no love story, unless it's Nancy's love story with herself. I mean, she's just yelling at everybody. She says, "You tell me first, then you tell the president and I'll tell the president," blah, blah, blah, blah.

It's that old silly stereotype of Mrs. Reagan, which by the way, I've never believed anyway, and there's considerable reason to doubt that it's true.

COOPER: Well, Tom, I'm told we have a brief clip from this show. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor's race is going to be wide open next year. The party of California is in a shambles. We just have a feeling that he might be the man to bring it together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you really run an actor for governor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since he's on television every week, everybody knows him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe he's not interested.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Ronald Reagan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy, we want to put him in the governor's seat. And we want to put him into the presidency.

JUDY DAVIS, AS NANCY REAGAN: He doesn't want to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you?

DAVIS: These men are serious, and they're Republicans.

JAMES BROLIN, AS RONALD REAGAN: I'm an actor, not a politician.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Who was sort of behind this? I mean, who was producing this? Do you think they had some sort of an agenda?

SHALES: Well, there are a couple of producers who've done great stuff for TV like the Judy Garland story and this and that. And they've done some projects that I think are sort of gay advocacy things.

Now perhaps they felt that they couldn't do the story of Ronald Reagan without putting in some mention of the fact that he allegedly did not take AIDS seriously enough, soon enough, to not, you know, put enough money in for research and that sort of thing.

But they crystallized that in one horrible line, horacious line of dialogue -- I just invented a word -- about him saying, those who live by sin shall die by sin or something like that.

COOPER: That's an invented line?

SHALES: Yes. Apparently, you know, people say he never said that. And it presents an image of Ronald Reagan as being so cold- hearted.

And if you've ever met the man he's not a cold-hearted man. He may have had strange ideas about certain things, but he was not a cold-hearted man.

The thing that drives me crazy is the timing of this. You know, we all ran around thinking Camelot was just the most wonderful myth in the world for, like, 20 years after President Kennedy died. And then came the revisionist histories and all of that stuff, and the movies and the books.

Now, Ronald Reagan is still alive. The dear man is in an Alzheimer's sort of coma. I don't know if he's in a coma, but he's lying there helpless with Alzheimer's Disease. Is this the time to take some whacks at him? Isn't that mean?

COOPER: Apparently CBS has said no. They're going to, I guess, put this thing on Showtime. I guess some people will still be able to see it.

Tom Shales, it's great to talk to you. Appreciate you joining us.

SHALES: Thank you.

COOPER: All right. Thanks, Tom.

Still to come this evening, even before the lights came back on, "The Matrix: Revolution" had made movie history. We'll tell you how.

Also tonight, what do those new secret tapes reveal about Princess Diana and the royal family? Anything?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: All right. Time for a check of "The Current."

"The Matrix: Revolution" opened globally today in unprecedented fashion, with more than 18,000 prints sent around the world. The movie opened at precisely the same time in 80 countries.

It is believed to be the largest simultaneous dissemination of half-baked stoner philosophy since the release of Pink Floyd's "The Wall."

It would have been funnier if I hadn't messed it up.

Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick are returning to "The Producers" on Broadway to reprise their phenomenally popular run in the Mel Brooks musical. If you still can't get tickets this time, keep in mind you can always catch the Broadway musical "Nine," now starring John Stamos.

The new Rod Stewart musical tonight has opened in London, utilizing 22 of Stewart's best-known songs. Stewart reportedly says he hopes to be remembered for his songwriting more than his womanizing. The 57-year-old star attended the launch with his 31- year-old girlfriend.

And the British royal soap opera continues now. Today it centers on a stack of videotapes showing Princess Diana practicing public speaking. Her former speech coach is threatening to sue if police do not return 20 videos he shot of Diana in the early 1990s.

Now the police found the tapes when they raided former butler Paul Burrell's apartment in 2001. Diana's family contend the tapes were Diana's personal property. They want them back.

Tomorrow the fight over the tapes could go to court, where they might be played as evidence.

Richard Mineards is a correspondent for "The London Daily Express," joins us from Los Angeles.

Richard, thanks for being with us. Does anybody know what really is on these tapes, and if so, what is it?

RICHARD MINEARDS, "LONDON DAILY EXPRESS": Well, the only people who've seen them are Peter Settelen, who's the voice coach, and her sister, Lady Sarah McCorquodale.

And most of the tapes are safe -- and there are about 21 hours worth. But a couple of them are said to be very damaging, because when they were made in the early 1990s, Diana was very much at the low ebb with her marriage and very dejected. And I think she was very candid in her speech on these videotapes.

And in fact, when they were brought to trial with Burrell last year, they were considered so damaging that the prosecution did not bring them into evidence. And clearly the royal family does not want them being brought out in the open, if this case does go to court over the ownership.

COOPER: Well, that's the thing. The princess' family seems to be caught in a catch-22. If they take this thing to court the tapes will probably come out as evidence. They'll be played in open court. People will see them.

If they don't, I guess they go back into the hands of this guy who taped them, this speech coach who claims he's not going to release them. But frankly, that's what the butler said a couple years ago. And now he's out hawking a book.

MINEARDS: Yes, exactly. And I think it is indeed a catch-22. The Spencer family have said that if they, indeed, do get the videotapes back, they would destroy them.

And as you say, Settelen, the voice coach, says that he wants them because they were a memory of his intimate moments with Princess Diana in the early '90s and that he won't release them. But as you say, Burrell said the same thing about not writing a book, and we all know what happened with that.

COOPER: Yes, it seems incredulous to believe that this speech coach is just going to, you know, watch the tapes with a little glass of Chablis, rather than sort of try to profit off them. It seems everyone these days is profiting off the death of this princess.

Where does this go from here? I mean, is it going to go to court tomorrow?

MINEARDS: Well, it seems likely, because he's been negotiating with the Spencer family for the last year. The videotapes are now in the possession of the London metropolitan police. And they're waiting to see what is agreed.

But clearly, there has been no agreement within the last 12 months. So it does looks likely it will go to court and the ensuing damage. So the royal soap opera continues.

COOPER: It sure does.

MINEARDS: And Diana is speaking from beyond the grave. There seems to be no end to this.

COOPER: All right. Certainly seems that way. Richard Mineards, good to talk to you. Thank you.

Coming up next on 360, what scenes didn't you see in yesterday's presidential forum. Well, frankly, the ones we made up. We'll show them to you, coming up.

Also tomorrow, wives of serial killers. Wife of the man leading a deadly double life.

First today's "Buzz," in the case of the Green River serial killer, which serves justice more? Getting his confession or giving him the death penalty? Vote note, CNN.com/360. Results in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for the "Buzz."

We asked you in the case of the Green River serial killer, which serves justice more, getting his confession or giving him the death penalty? It's been a split vote all day: 51 percent said getting his confession is more important for justice. Forty-nine percent said giving him the death penalty matters more.

Not a scientific poll, just your "Buzz."

Tonight we take last night's presidential forum to "The Nth Degree."

I wanted to get fresh answers from the candidates. So I told them some of their stock phrases are now so familiar they're inspiring a drinking game. And we did get some fresh answers. But that doesn't mean you saw everything.

So tonight, through the magic of multiple camera angles and, frankly, some totally fabricated scenes, we're able to bring you some outtakes you didn't see during last night's forum.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Ambassador Braun you had talked about...

BRAUN: I can't even hear you.

COOPER: I'm sorry.

Governor Dean, what about you?

DEAN: I didn't hear the question

COOPER: Is anyone listening to me? I'm told you have a question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Say it again.

BRAUN: I got off the chair. I'm ignoring the chair. I'm going to ignore the ding-dong, too.

COOPER: What did you just call me?

BRAUN: The ding-dong.

COOPER: We can edit that out, right?

Which are you are read to admit to having used marijuana in the past?

DEAN: We'll all keep our hands down on this one.

COOPER: All right. Well, are any of you, right now at this moment, stoned out of your minds?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd be curious to find out, if you could pick one of your fellow candidates to party with, which you would choose?

COOPER: And candidates you are allowed to choose me.

KUCINICH (puts hand on Al Sharpton's shoulder): Him.

COOPER: Not me?

SHARPTON: Mrs. Kerry.

COOPER: Can I at least come?

KERRY: I was going to choose Carol Moseley Braun.

COOPER: I'll bring the popcorn.

SHARPTON: I grew up in the church. We didn't believe in that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: That wraps up our show tonight.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com



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