Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Transfer of Power
Aired November 14, 2003 - 09:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration is putting Iraqi sovereignty on a fasttrack. But would speeding up the transition to self-rule make Iraq any safer? For a closer look at the changing White House policy, let's turn to CNN analyst Ken Pollack from the Saban Center at Brookings. He joins us from Washington.
Ken, good morning. Good to see you.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Anderson, good morning.
COOPER: You know, they talk about Iraqi-fication. Is that a fancy word for pulling out?
POLLACK: Well, this is one of the questions out there. No one knows. And there is a real fear that this is exactly what's going on. There's some very senior Bush administration officials who have been saying from the start, they were never interested in nation building, they always wanted to just get the bad guy and get out of there, and there's a real fear that this is another name for that.
On the other hand, it's not even clear that Iraqi-fication, if it really is implemented as intended, will solve the problem. As people pointed out, it didn't work in Vietnam, and there are some real risks of going down this road in Iraq.
COOPER: Are the Iraqis really ready to handle things, not only this Iraqi council, but also, you know, police on the ground? I used go to Haiti a lot, went out with a lot of U.S. trainers training the Haitian police force, and that thing took years and never really got anywhere.
POLLACK: Well, that's exactly the issue, Anderson, is that it's just unclear that the Iraqis are ready to handle it themselves. They're saying they're ready to handle it, but what we've seen in these kind of post-conflict situations over the last 15 years is that the people always think that they're ready, but typically they are not. Typically it takes a much longer period of time. In fact, you hear a lot of Iraqis saying right now, they are saying, don't do this. If you start surrendering power to Iraqis, the people who you are going to be empowering are the old elites, the Baathists, tribal leaders and Shia religious figures are the only people right now who are organized and ready to take advantage of power being devolved to them.
The people in Iraq, the vast majority who would like to create some kind of Democratic system. They're not ready for it. COOPER: What is your sense, I guess this is really your opinion, is it facts on the ground driving this policy, or is it domestic politics and pressure here at home?
POLLACK: Well, unfortunately it's almost impossible to separate the two. When you're president of the United States, you've always got to be looking over your shoulder at the next presidential election, and I think that there is a combination of the two. I think that there is a real fear on the part of the White House that if they don't get things under control soon, then going into the November elections in 2004, the president is going to have a real mess on his hands.
By the same token, I think that Jerry Bremer and the people on the ground in Baghdad are coming to the president and saying, look, we have made some real mistakes and we have got to change course. The problem is you've now got a fight within Washington over how to change course, whether you very quickly devolve all power to the Iraqis, or do you try to set up a more measured system, create a new governing Council that's more legitimate, more representative of Iraqis, and use that to try and hold the line and allow some of the Iraqi Democrats to get their feet wet, to get experience, to build political parties, and to wait until a later date when they're ready to actual participate in a real Democratic process.
COOPER: Whatever the choice, it's not going to be an easy one. Ken Pollack, from the Saban Center, thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 14, 2003 - 09:36 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration is putting Iraqi sovereignty on a fasttrack. But would speeding up the transition to self-rule make Iraq any safer? For a closer look at the changing White House policy, let's turn to CNN analyst Ken Pollack from the Saban Center at Brookings. He joins us from Washington.
Ken, good morning. Good to see you.
KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Anderson, good morning.
COOPER: You know, they talk about Iraqi-fication. Is that a fancy word for pulling out?
POLLACK: Well, this is one of the questions out there. No one knows. And there is a real fear that this is exactly what's going on. There's some very senior Bush administration officials who have been saying from the start, they were never interested in nation building, they always wanted to just get the bad guy and get out of there, and there's a real fear that this is another name for that.
On the other hand, it's not even clear that Iraqi-fication, if it really is implemented as intended, will solve the problem. As people pointed out, it didn't work in Vietnam, and there are some real risks of going down this road in Iraq.
COOPER: Are the Iraqis really ready to handle things, not only this Iraqi council, but also, you know, police on the ground? I used go to Haiti a lot, went out with a lot of U.S. trainers training the Haitian police force, and that thing took years and never really got anywhere.
POLLACK: Well, that's exactly the issue, Anderson, is that it's just unclear that the Iraqis are ready to handle it themselves. They're saying they're ready to handle it, but what we've seen in these kind of post-conflict situations over the last 15 years is that the people always think that they're ready, but typically they are not. Typically it takes a much longer period of time. In fact, you hear a lot of Iraqis saying right now, they are saying, don't do this. If you start surrendering power to Iraqis, the people who you are going to be empowering are the old elites, the Baathists, tribal leaders and Shia religious figures are the only people right now who are organized and ready to take advantage of power being devolved to them.
The people in Iraq, the vast majority who would like to create some kind of Democratic system. They're not ready for it. COOPER: What is your sense, I guess this is really your opinion, is it facts on the ground driving this policy, or is it domestic politics and pressure here at home?
POLLACK: Well, unfortunately it's almost impossible to separate the two. When you're president of the United States, you've always got to be looking over your shoulder at the next presidential election, and I think that there is a combination of the two. I think that there is a real fear on the part of the White House that if they don't get things under control soon, then going into the November elections in 2004, the president is going to have a real mess on his hands.
By the same token, I think that Jerry Bremer and the people on the ground in Baghdad are coming to the president and saying, look, we have made some real mistakes and we have got to change course. The problem is you've now got a fight within Washington over how to change course, whether you very quickly devolve all power to the Iraqis, or do you try to set up a more measured system, create a new governing Council that's more legitimate, more representative of Iraqis, and use that to try and hold the line and allow some of the Iraqi Democrats to get their feet wet, to get experience, to build political parties, and to wait until a later date when they're ready to actual participate in a real Democratic process.
COOPER: Whatever the choice, it's not going to be an easy one. Ken Pollack, from the Saban Center, thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
