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American Morning

Jonestown Anniversary

Aired November 18, 2003 - 08:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Today marks a tragic anniversary, the mass murder/suicide known as Jonestown. On November 18, 1978, more than 900 member of the Peoples Temple lost their lives in Guyana under the cult influence of the Reverend Jim Jones. What have we learned in the year since the tragedy? Could something like this happen again?
Don Lattin is a religion reporter for "The San Francisco Chronicle." He is also the author of the book "Following Our Bliss: How the Spiritual Ideals of the '60s Shaped our Lives Today." And Don Lattin joins us live from San Francisco this morning.

Good morning, it's nice to have you. We really should start by warning some of our viewers, these pictures from Jonestown are quite disturbing and fairly graphic.

So as we begin in that context, take us back in history. Give me a sense of what was going on at the time. And how shocking it was that Jim Jones, moving his flock from San Francisco to Guyana to start this sort of paradise there. How shocking was that to people in San Francisco at the time?

DON LATTIN, AUTHOR, "FOLLOWING OUR BLISS": It was horrifying to people in San Francisco, especially some people on the newspapers there. We had reporters and photographers down there with a Congressman Leo Ryan, who was investigating the cult, and we didn't know the fate of some of our friends and colleagues there. But it was just a horrible experience.

Jonestown really was a byproduct of its time, though, in a way. It reflected a lot of the political divisions and this kind of us versus them mentality of the '60s. They really went from the hope, the idealism, the spiritual bliss and social idealism of the '60s where this really started, to this sort of downward spiral of political paranoia, fear and intimidation that ended up in Jonestown.

O'BRIEN: We are looking, Don, I should say, of some pictures of really the bodies, the 900 people who drank the Kool-Aid, drank the cyanide and then died right at the compound. Why would it spiral from a relatively progressive religious organization to a group that was based in paranoia, and fear and brutality, as you say?

LATTIN: Like as you mention, Jones what not seen as a wacky cult leader from California for most of his ministry, his career. He was a mainline Protestant denomination, with a denomination called The Disciples of Christ. Of course not typical of that group at all. Started out in Indiana 50 years ago. Actually it's the 50th anniversary of him starting his first church, and he had a racially integrated church.

But there was always a shadow side. I went back recently to Indiana, interviewed people who knew him as a child, as a young minister, and there was always this dark shadow side to Jim Jones. But what happens in these groups is people -- the cult leader projects out on to the group, projects in the early years the spiritual bliss, the political message, the political hope. Also, in the end, when the leader goes crazy, as Jones did -- he was very paranoid in the end, whacked out on drugs. He takes the whole group down with him, sucking them down into this kind of spiral of fear and paranoia, and they were convinced that the government was out to get them. In fact, there was a government investigation coming down. It was almost a self- fulfilling prophecy in some ways.

O'BRIEN: Jim Jones was a guy who was also many people I don't think realize, very political connected. He was the president of the San Francisco Housing Authority. He had visited the White House under the Carter administration.

LATTIN: That's right.

O'BRIEN: Why did the -- I guess the better question is, when did the corner turn? Was it when Congressman Ryan decided to come and do that leg of the investigation?

LATTIN: It was a bit before that. What happened was he was politically connected, all the way back to Indianapolis. He was on the Human Rights Commission. Mayor George Mastoni (ph), who would be assassinated just nine days later after Jonestown, appointed him as chairman of the housing authority. Jones had 1,000 people who could go out and knock on doors, work precincts. Jones used the political power of this army of devotees to compromise not only the politicians in San Francisco, but some of the key media people in San Francisco. He was a master manipulator. And you go back and look at his early career, he did it in Indianapolis, he did it in northern California, before he came to San Francisco, and then when he came to San Francisco.

O'BRIEN: Don, do you think it could happen again?

LATTIN: It did happen again. Remember Heaven's Gate...

O'BRIEN: To this extent, to 900 people?

O'BRIEN: I think it could, I think it could. And I hate to say that, but we did have -- we've had some other fairly horrifying cult tragedies since then.

O'BRIEN: Don Lattin, joining us this morning. Hard to believe it's been 25 years. Thanks for your time, appreciate it.

LATTIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 18, 2003 - 08:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Today marks a tragic anniversary, the mass murder/suicide known as Jonestown. On November 18, 1978, more than 900 member of the Peoples Temple lost their lives in Guyana under the cult influence of the Reverend Jim Jones. What have we learned in the year since the tragedy? Could something like this happen again?
Don Lattin is a religion reporter for "The San Francisco Chronicle." He is also the author of the book "Following Our Bliss: How the Spiritual Ideals of the '60s Shaped our Lives Today." And Don Lattin joins us live from San Francisco this morning.

Good morning, it's nice to have you. We really should start by warning some of our viewers, these pictures from Jonestown are quite disturbing and fairly graphic.

So as we begin in that context, take us back in history. Give me a sense of what was going on at the time. And how shocking it was that Jim Jones, moving his flock from San Francisco to Guyana to start this sort of paradise there. How shocking was that to people in San Francisco at the time?

DON LATTIN, AUTHOR, "FOLLOWING OUR BLISS": It was horrifying to people in San Francisco, especially some people on the newspapers there. We had reporters and photographers down there with a Congressman Leo Ryan, who was investigating the cult, and we didn't know the fate of some of our friends and colleagues there. But it was just a horrible experience.

Jonestown really was a byproduct of its time, though, in a way. It reflected a lot of the political divisions and this kind of us versus them mentality of the '60s. They really went from the hope, the idealism, the spiritual bliss and social idealism of the '60s where this really started, to this sort of downward spiral of political paranoia, fear and intimidation that ended up in Jonestown.

O'BRIEN: We are looking, Don, I should say, of some pictures of really the bodies, the 900 people who drank the Kool-Aid, drank the cyanide and then died right at the compound. Why would it spiral from a relatively progressive religious organization to a group that was based in paranoia, and fear and brutality, as you say?

LATTIN: Like as you mention, Jones what not seen as a wacky cult leader from California for most of his ministry, his career. He was a mainline Protestant denomination, with a denomination called The Disciples of Christ. Of course not typical of that group at all. Started out in Indiana 50 years ago. Actually it's the 50th anniversary of him starting his first church, and he had a racially integrated church.

But there was always a shadow side. I went back recently to Indiana, interviewed people who knew him as a child, as a young minister, and there was always this dark shadow side to Jim Jones. But what happens in these groups is people -- the cult leader projects out on to the group, projects in the early years the spiritual bliss, the political message, the political hope. Also, in the end, when the leader goes crazy, as Jones did -- he was very paranoid in the end, whacked out on drugs. He takes the whole group down with him, sucking them down into this kind of spiral of fear and paranoia, and they were convinced that the government was out to get them. In fact, there was a government investigation coming down. It was almost a self- fulfilling prophecy in some ways.

O'BRIEN: Jim Jones was a guy who was also many people I don't think realize, very political connected. He was the president of the San Francisco Housing Authority. He had visited the White House under the Carter administration.

LATTIN: That's right.

O'BRIEN: Why did the -- I guess the better question is, when did the corner turn? Was it when Congressman Ryan decided to come and do that leg of the investigation?

LATTIN: It was a bit before that. What happened was he was politically connected, all the way back to Indianapolis. He was on the Human Rights Commission. Mayor George Mastoni (ph), who would be assassinated just nine days later after Jonestown, appointed him as chairman of the housing authority. Jones had 1,000 people who could go out and knock on doors, work precincts. Jones used the political power of this army of devotees to compromise not only the politicians in San Francisco, but some of the key media people in San Francisco. He was a master manipulator. And you go back and look at his early career, he did it in Indianapolis, he did it in northern California, before he came to San Francisco, and then when he came to San Francisco.

O'BRIEN: Don, do you think it could happen again?

LATTIN: It did happen again. Remember Heaven's Gate...

O'BRIEN: To this extent, to 900 people?

O'BRIEN: I think it could, I think it could. And I hate to say that, but we did have -- we've had some other fairly horrifying cult tragedies since then.

O'BRIEN: Don Lattin, joining us this morning. Hard to believe it's been 25 years. Thanks for your time, appreciate it.

LATTIN: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com