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American Morning

Interview with Muhammad Trial Juror

Aired November 25, 2003 - 08:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Prosecutors in the trial of accused sniper Lee Boyd Malvo rested their case yesterday after jurors heard a tape in which Malvo allegedly predicted he would be executed for the killing spree. Then the defense opened its case by calling the defendant's father, Leslie Malvo, to the stand.
Patty Davis is live for us in Chesapeake, Virginia this morning -- Patty. Good morning.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Soledad.

This morning there is no word of Malvo's reaction to the jury's recommendation of death for John Muhammad, the man that he called his father. But his real father took the stand yesterday and they exchanged smiles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS (voice-over): The defense opened its case with Lee Boyd Malvo's father Leslie. He described Malvo as a prized son whom he loved very much and recalled buying him ice cream and a red bicycle. He broke down in tears as he told of losing touch with his son after the boy's mother unexpectedly took him and moved out.

MICHAEL ARIF, ATTORNEY FOR MALVO: He has very few memories to reflect back on. I don't know what he was going through in his mind. I can only imagine the pain and the agony that he was going through looking at his son sitting there with the potential of death on his shoulders.

DAVIS: Leslie Malvo said he never trained his son to shoot guns. Defense lawyers contend that was done by John Muhammad, who indoctrinated the boy to be his child soldier. They are pursuing an insanity defense.

Earlier in the day, as prosecutors rested their case, the image of Malvo was decidedly different. In a taped interrogation with Fairfax County Detective June Boyle played for the jury, a remorseless Malvo said he'd fasted before the sniper shootings to make him shaper and he said he thought he would be put to death.

"You want to hang me? OK. Poke me, shock me, I'm just going to last for three minutes, five minutes, two minutes, then you're dead."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS: Prosecutors say Malvo admitted to many of the sniper shootings and they plan to tell the jury that he, like John Muhammad, should be convicted and pay with his life -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Patty Davis for us this morning.

Patty, thanks.

It did not take long for the jury in the trial of John Allen Muhammad to decide that the convicted sniper should die for his crimes. Jurors reached that verdict after deliberating for five and a half hours over two days.

JACKIE MARHALIK, MUHAMMAD TRIAL JUROR: Jackie Marhalik was a member of the Muhammad jury and she joins us this morning from Virginia Beach.

Jackie, good morning.

It's nice to have you.

Thanks for talking to us.

MARHALIK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Which was more difficult, to find John Allen Muhammad guilty of his crime or to decide to put him to death?

MARHALIK: It's a profound decision to take someone's life. We did agonize over that. But there was just simply so little mitigating evidence. I agonized to a great extent over the guilt portion. Capital murder, first degree murder. But, again, the evidence was just overwhelming.

I've raised my children to be loving and compassionate, but I think we sentenced a shell of a man to death. It wasn't John Muhammad, it was just a shell of a man.

O'BRIEN: How much of an emotional burden has being a juror on this case been for you? I mean to listen to the 9/11 calls, to see those incredibly graphic photographs, to watch people break down on the stand, how -- describe what your life has been like covering this trial. And then to decide to put someone to death.

MARHALIK: I was waking up in the morning covered in tears. I just couldn't contain them. You couldn't talk to anyone. That was very, very, very difficult. You had no one to share this with. The images that we saw will stay with me forever. The voices on the 9/11 tape, "Please, I'm a dying man," it was just horrible, horrible, horrible.

The prosecutors really -- I felt emotionally battered, but that was the situation. And it was awfully, awfully bad.

O'BRIEN: John Muhammad sat like a stone, some people would describe him, during the trial.

Did you find yourself searching his face to see a reaction? Did that factor... MARHALIK: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: You did. And did that factor into your decision- making?

MARHALIK: Not really. I viewed him as being just either not really there or just incredibly stoic. I did see when the verdict was reached, he seemed resigned, as if he knew this was coming all along. You know, so the lack of remorse, I didn't expect remorse, so it didn't really factor into my decision.

O'BRIEN: I think people described a flicker of a smile when they showed the home movies of John Muhammad playing with his children.

MARHALIK: Oh, he cried.

O'BRIEN: How did that affect you? He cried?

MARHALIK: He cried. Yes. Of course, I'm a mother. I see a man playing with his children, that's got to touch you. But, again, that was a different person. That wasn't the person sitting in the courtroom. So it's, it was tough looking at it, but it couldn't be the mitigating evidence that would give him life.

O'BRIEN: Was there one piece of evidence where you said this is it, this nails this case for me --

MARHALIK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Or was it...

MARHALIK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What was it, then?

MARHALIK: Well, the preponderance of evidence, obviously. There was just so much.

O'BRIEN: So, oh, just the fact there was overwhelming evidence?

MARHALIK: I think the phone call that he made to that dispatcher. Her name was Amy Lefkoff, I believe, where he was saying, "We are making these demands. We want $10 million." And then the body bag statement, I mean how could you escape from that?

O'BRIEN: It's up to the judge now, as you well know.

Are you confident you all made the right decision?

MARHALIK: I thought I would wake up crying again this morning, but there's a kind of calm and peace knowing that this is now done and perhaps the families will have some solace.

O'BRIEN: Jackie Marhalik.

Thanks for joining us, Ms. Marhalik. I appreciate your time.

MARHALIK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Dean Meyers was killed on October of last year, gunned down during that sniper spree. Bob Meyers, his brother, is with us now, live in Virginia Beach.

Good morning to you.

And listening to Jackie, this was an excruciating decision for so many of these jurors. Reading some of their comments yesterday and listening to them, many thought he would kill again.

Did you have that same impression, that same thought?

BOB MEYERS, BROTHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Yes, I really did. I was pleased in part for the decision about the sentence to save the life of others possibly in prison or folks that work in the prison or, should he ever escape, maybe even his wife.

HEMMER: Did you ever detect remorse? Did you ever detect a sense of responsibility on behalf of the defense?

MEYERS: No. Absolutely not. And when we talk about remorse, it seems to me to be one step removed from the real issue, and that is, as you say, there's been no taking responsibility. The words that the defense team used were very carefully crafted to make sure it seemed that there was no responsibility taken.

HEMMER: Yes. Would that have made a difference to you, had that had been the case?

MEYERS: Yes. Not in the sentence, but I'd have felt better about the whole -- the man and the whole situation. But at this point, with the huge load of evidence and him apparently maintaining his innocence, it's just, it's very troubling.

HEMMER: Bob, do you feel this is justice for your family and justice in the name of your brother?

MEYERS: Yes, I believe that justice has been served. It, to the extent possible, we have seen the system provide the justice that it can provide. Certainly this man has god to answer to and that will be the final justice on this subject.

But at the same time we don't relish the requirement for him to give his life. But we do believe it's the right consequence for his actions.

HEMMER: One final thought here, Bob, if I could.

Apparently on Friday, before the jurors broke for the weekend, eight had favored the death penalty, four had not made up their minds. They made their minds up, convinced of death, over the weekend. And they came back and we saw the verdict that we had.

I know you spoke with some of the jurors yesterday.

Did they share with you why and how it went that way?

MEYERS: I spoke with every juror yesterday, but honestly we didn't touch on that subject and, you know, really, I understand that it's an agonizing decision and it's a weighty one and I can appreciate the fact that it might have taken a little time to get there. But at the same time I'm very pleased that they did have unanimity in making that final decision.

HEMMER: Hey, Bob, what do you want us to know about your brother Dean?

MEYERS: He was a kind, generous, harmless guy and the fact that he died the way he did will forever live in my thoughts in comparison to the man that he was.

HEMMER: My best to you and your family.

MEYERS: Thank you.

HEMMER: Bob Meyers, thanks for sharing with us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 25, 2003 - 08:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Prosecutors in the trial of accused sniper Lee Boyd Malvo rested their case yesterday after jurors heard a tape in which Malvo allegedly predicted he would be executed for the killing spree. Then the defense opened its case by calling the defendant's father, Leslie Malvo, to the stand.
Patty Davis is live for us in Chesapeake, Virginia this morning -- Patty. Good morning.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Soledad.

This morning there is no word of Malvo's reaction to the jury's recommendation of death for John Muhammad, the man that he called his father. But his real father took the stand yesterday and they exchanged smiles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS (voice-over): The defense opened its case with Lee Boyd Malvo's father Leslie. He described Malvo as a prized son whom he loved very much and recalled buying him ice cream and a red bicycle. He broke down in tears as he told of losing touch with his son after the boy's mother unexpectedly took him and moved out.

MICHAEL ARIF, ATTORNEY FOR MALVO: He has very few memories to reflect back on. I don't know what he was going through in his mind. I can only imagine the pain and the agony that he was going through looking at his son sitting there with the potential of death on his shoulders.

DAVIS: Leslie Malvo said he never trained his son to shoot guns. Defense lawyers contend that was done by John Muhammad, who indoctrinated the boy to be his child soldier. They are pursuing an insanity defense.

Earlier in the day, as prosecutors rested their case, the image of Malvo was decidedly different. In a taped interrogation with Fairfax County Detective June Boyle played for the jury, a remorseless Malvo said he'd fasted before the sniper shootings to make him shaper and he said he thought he would be put to death.

"You want to hang me? OK. Poke me, shock me, I'm just going to last for three minutes, five minutes, two minutes, then you're dead."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DAVIS: Prosecutors say Malvo admitted to many of the sniper shootings and they plan to tell the jury that he, like John Muhammad, should be convicted and pay with his life -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Patty Davis for us this morning.

Patty, thanks.

It did not take long for the jury in the trial of John Allen Muhammad to decide that the convicted sniper should die for his crimes. Jurors reached that verdict after deliberating for five and a half hours over two days.

JACKIE MARHALIK, MUHAMMAD TRIAL JUROR: Jackie Marhalik was a member of the Muhammad jury and she joins us this morning from Virginia Beach.

Jackie, good morning.

It's nice to have you.

Thanks for talking to us.

MARHALIK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Which was more difficult, to find John Allen Muhammad guilty of his crime or to decide to put him to death?

MARHALIK: It's a profound decision to take someone's life. We did agonize over that. But there was just simply so little mitigating evidence. I agonized to a great extent over the guilt portion. Capital murder, first degree murder. But, again, the evidence was just overwhelming.

I've raised my children to be loving and compassionate, but I think we sentenced a shell of a man to death. It wasn't John Muhammad, it was just a shell of a man.

O'BRIEN: How much of an emotional burden has being a juror on this case been for you? I mean to listen to the 9/11 calls, to see those incredibly graphic photographs, to watch people break down on the stand, how -- describe what your life has been like covering this trial. And then to decide to put someone to death.

MARHALIK: I was waking up in the morning covered in tears. I just couldn't contain them. You couldn't talk to anyone. That was very, very, very difficult. You had no one to share this with. The images that we saw will stay with me forever. The voices on the 9/11 tape, "Please, I'm a dying man," it was just horrible, horrible, horrible.

The prosecutors really -- I felt emotionally battered, but that was the situation. And it was awfully, awfully bad.

O'BRIEN: John Muhammad sat like a stone, some people would describe him, during the trial.

Did you find yourself searching his face to see a reaction? Did that factor... MARHALIK: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: You did. And did that factor into your decision- making?

MARHALIK: Not really. I viewed him as being just either not really there or just incredibly stoic. I did see when the verdict was reached, he seemed resigned, as if he knew this was coming all along. You know, so the lack of remorse, I didn't expect remorse, so it didn't really factor into my decision.

O'BRIEN: I think people described a flicker of a smile when they showed the home movies of John Muhammad playing with his children.

MARHALIK: Oh, he cried.

O'BRIEN: How did that affect you? He cried?

MARHALIK: He cried. Yes. Of course, I'm a mother. I see a man playing with his children, that's got to touch you. But, again, that was a different person. That wasn't the person sitting in the courtroom. So it's, it was tough looking at it, but it couldn't be the mitigating evidence that would give him life.

O'BRIEN: Was there one piece of evidence where you said this is it, this nails this case for me --

MARHALIK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Or was it...

MARHALIK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What was it, then?

MARHALIK: Well, the preponderance of evidence, obviously. There was just so much.

O'BRIEN: So, oh, just the fact there was overwhelming evidence?

MARHALIK: I think the phone call that he made to that dispatcher. Her name was Amy Lefkoff, I believe, where he was saying, "We are making these demands. We want $10 million." And then the body bag statement, I mean how could you escape from that?

O'BRIEN: It's up to the judge now, as you well know.

Are you confident you all made the right decision?

MARHALIK: I thought I would wake up crying again this morning, but there's a kind of calm and peace knowing that this is now done and perhaps the families will have some solace.

O'BRIEN: Jackie Marhalik.

Thanks for joining us, Ms. Marhalik. I appreciate your time.

MARHALIK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Dean Meyers was killed on October of last year, gunned down during that sniper spree. Bob Meyers, his brother, is with us now, live in Virginia Beach.

Good morning to you.

And listening to Jackie, this was an excruciating decision for so many of these jurors. Reading some of their comments yesterday and listening to them, many thought he would kill again.

Did you have that same impression, that same thought?

BOB MEYERS, BROTHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Yes, I really did. I was pleased in part for the decision about the sentence to save the life of others possibly in prison or folks that work in the prison or, should he ever escape, maybe even his wife.

HEMMER: Did you ever detect remorse? Did you ever detect a sense of responsibility on behalf of the defense?

MEYERS: No. Absolutely not. And when we talk about remorse, it seems to me to be one step removed from the real issue, and that is, as you say, there's been no taking responsibility. The words that the defense team used were very carefully crafted to make sure it seemed that there was no responsibility taken.

HEMMER: Yes. Would that have made a difference to you, had that had been the case?

MEYERS: Yes. Not in the sentence, but I'd have felt better about the whole -- the man and the whole situation. But at this point, with the huge load of evidence and him apparently maintaining his innocence, it's just, it's very troubling.

HEMMER: Bob, do you feel this is justice for your family and justice in the name of your brother?

MEYERS: Yes, I believe that justice has been served. It, to the extent possible, we have seen the system provide the justice that it can provide. Certainly this man has god to answer to and that will be the final justice on this subject.

But at the same time we don't relish the requirement for him to give his life. But we do believe it's the right consequence for his actions.

HEMMER: One final thought here, Bob, if I could.

Apparently on Friday, before the jurors broke for the weekend, eight had favored the death penalty, four had not made up their minds. They made their minds up, convinced of death, over the weekend. And they came back and we saw the verdict that we had.

I know you spoke with some of the jurors yesterday.

Did they share with you why and how it went that way?

MEYERS: I spoke with every juror yesterday, but honestly we didn't touch on that subject and, you know, really, I understand that it's an agonizing decision and it's a weighty one and I can appreciate the fact that it might have taken a little time to get there. But at the same time I'm very pleased that they did have unanimity in making that final decision.

HEMMER: Hey, Bob, what do you want us to know about your brother Dean?

MEYERS: He was a kind, generous, harmless guy and the fact that he died the way he did will forever live in my thoughts in comparison to the man that he was.

HEMMER: My best to you and your family.

MEYERS: Thank you.

HEMMER: Bob Meyers, thanks for sharing with us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com