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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Trouble in Neverland: Tale of the Tape; Saddam's Shadow Strikes Fear in Iraq; "The Missing" Home Run or Flop?

Aired November 26, 2003 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): What power does Saddam Hussein still wield in Iraq?

Michael Jackson's defense says they have a tape. Could it clear his name?

Believe it or not. The FDA approves clinical tests of, well, a female orgasm machine.

Domestic goddess Nigella Lawson on holiday food interviewed by none other than my mom.

And are there any movies to be thankful for this holiday?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And good evening. Welcome to 360.

We begin with the latest twist in the Michael Jackson investigation. An audiotape in a which a person believed to be the mother of the alleged victim says Jackson "never acted inappropriately." Now, this tape may raise as many questions as answers.

360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom has heard the tape. We're going to talk with her in a moment.

But first, here's the latest from CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the tape, a voice described by a source close to Michael Jackson's defense as that of the alleged victim's mother says Jackson never abused the boy. CNN legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who listened to the tape, was also told by the defense source that the boy and mother signed an affidavit saying Jackson never abused the boy. Defense attorney Ira Salzman, who has not heard the tape, says it and the alleged affidavit could be damaging to the prosecution's case. IRA SALZMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on what the alleged victim has to say. What the mother has to say isn't terribly determinative one way or the other. But if the young man says nothing happened, he never touched me in no uncertain terms, that's going to be pretty powerful.

BUCKLEY: Jackson's attorneys claim the current allegations against the singer are financially motivated. And while the boy and his family are not suing Michael Jackson right now, court records indicate that they have sued for money before.

Four years ago, they filed this lawsuit against a JC Penney store after loss prevention agents accused the boy, then 8 years old, of shoplifting. Details of the incident were disputed; charges were ultimately dropped. And the family received a settlement of more than $137,000.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And Salzman says it's unlikely, though, that information will be entered into evidence, if, in fact, this case goes to trial against Michael Jackson. As for the tape and the alleged affidavit, however, that is a different matter. Salzman says, if that does make it into court, that could be very damaging to the prosecution and quite helpful to Michael Jackson's defense -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Frank Buckley in Los Angeles. Thanks, Frank.

As I mentioned, 360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom listened to the nearly 20-minute recording. She is in San Francisco tonight and joins us there.

Kimberly, good to see you. Now, Kimberly, the defense would like us to believe this tape is a bombshell to the case against Jackson. Is it?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it could very well prove to be very damaging to the prosecution's case. If this tape and the statements contained herein are believed, it could gut the prosecution's case, casting doubt on the credibility of the victim, his mother and the claims that they have made against Michael Jackson.

Keep in mind, in this tape, the whole time the mother and the alleged victim are very effusive in their praise for Michael Jackson, saying that they are blessed to have him as part of their life, that he was a father figure. The mother saying that Jackson treated her son as his own son, as well as her other children.

So nothing ever at all in the tape suggested any kind of inappropriate conduct. And, in fact, they come right out and say just that, that there was nothing untoward or inappropriate that occurred.

COOPER: As far as you know, who was asking the questions in this tape? And is there any level of coercion, at least that you could hear?

NEWSOM: No, it wasn't a lot of questions. It was more just dialogue, talking. The family members -- this one tape with the mother on there and the alleged victim and another younger son. And in this tape, at no time does it appear that this statement is coerced, that there is any kind of duress used or any kind of undue influence being exercised over any of the parties.

In fact, it's quite conversational, and they just talk about how blessed they are to be part of his "family." So I think it's going to be hard for the D.A. to overcome and say that this was the product of duress. What they will have to prove is that this child did not tell his mother the truth and/or that the alleged abuse occurred after this tape was made.

COOPER: We're going to talk about that coming up. Kimberly is going to join us a little bit later on in the broadcast, as well as Lisa Bloom of Court TV. The question, of course, could this be a punishing blow to the prosecution as the defense hopes? Or, are there other more simple explanations?

In particular, tonight, we want to look at when this tape was allegedly made and compare that to when the allegations against Jackson first surfaced. We're going to have that timeline ahead on 360.

First, we want to go to Iraq. A couple of new developments tonight.

First, U.S. troops have arrested a wife and daughter of that man, the second most wanted member of the old regime, still at large. Those are old pictures, of course. The man they want is suspected of masterminding attacks against coalition forces. It is not known if his wife and daughter have information about his whereabouts.

Also today, the Pentagon revealed it is boosting its manpower in Iraq. Next year, it will send nearly 3,000 extra Marines as part of the troop rotation plan. As CNN senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers reports, they will arrive in a place still living very much in the shadow of Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Arabic at this Baghdad bus stop, the graffiti says, "The day to kill you will come, Saddam." Wishful thinking, perhaps, because even hiding underground, Saddam Hussein casts a big shadow here.

In their heads, Iraqis know Saddam is not going to return. But hearing his most recent audiotape, knowing Saddam is alive, that voice still strikes fear in the pits of their stomachs.

One hundred-thirty thousand U.S. troops have not been able to find Saddam, and many Iraqis now say America is losing face here. So far, the Americans have not delivered on their promise, this pro basketball player says. "They won't catch him. He's no simpleton." Iraqi upper classes tell you Saddam is taunting the Americans with these audiotapes, trying to strangle any hope of democratic government with the fear he may yet return. Many Iraqis, however, smell a conspiracy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Iraqi public opinion believes that it is impossible to conceive that after six or seven months of American presence in Baghdad Saddam Hussein was not caught. They think there must be a deal between him and the United States.

RODGERS: Saddam a CIA agent? More than a few here believe that. After all, the Americans sided with Saddam Hussein during the earlier Iran-Iraq War, and a surprising number of people even believed Saddam is living happily in America. Regardless, no one here is turning him in and trying to collect that $25 million reward.

(on camera): And increasingly, some here argue that Saddam Hussein, like Osama bin Laden, is now more dangerous with no known address than he was when he was in power here in Baghdad.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well certainly the hunt still goes on. Here's a fast fact for you about who else is still out there from the Pentagon's 55 most wanted Iraqi list, also known as the deck of cards.

Fifteen are still missing, including, of course, Saddam Hussein. Thirty-five others have been taken into custody. Three surrendered. And only two were killed by coalition forces, Saddam's sons, Qusay and Uday, who died in a shootout last July in Mosul.

Well tomorrow, of course, many of us will give thanks for our blessings, hopefully surrounded by friends or family. For the families of those serving in Iraq, however, it will be a difficult day. For those who have lost loved ones, particularly difficult.

Private First Class Jacob Fletcher died in Iraq. Our Kelly Wallace spent some time with his mom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORINE KENNEY, MOTHER OF FALLEN SOLDIER: I knew. I knew. And I just went into a fog.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Dorine Kenney, the moment any military family fears came nearly two week ago, when she learned her only biological child, Army Private First Class Jacob Fletcher would not be coming home from Iraq alive.

KENNEY: Life changed in that moment.

WALLACE: We met Kenney at a diner in Bayshore, Long Island, a place that has opened its heart to Kenney and her son. Private Fletcher would have turned 29 Tuesday. At the young age of eight, he was already applying for the U.S. military. Nearly 21 years later, at the start of the war, he parachuted into northern Iraq.

KENNEY: He said, "You have to see the children. They have nothing." And that he would die for these people, if he had to.

WALLACE: He did. He was killed when his bus hit a landmine. He was returning to Iraq after a three-day break.

KENNEY: I would love my son back, but he had a strong sense of helping the people there.

WALLACE: And now that's become Kenney's mission. She hopes to encourage Americans to send gift boxes and letters to the U.S. troops in Iraq.

KENNEY: Support them. Keep their spirits high until they come home. What they are seeing there and what they are experiencing there is far beyond our comprehension.

WALLACE: This Thanksgiving, she gives thanks for the gift of a loving son.

KENNEY: I count the blessings, all 29 years that I had with him. I had 29 blessings.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And Kenney said that her son told her when he came home from Iraq he would go around thanking veterans for what they did for him and for the United States. And Anderson, Dorine Kenney now says she'll go around the country thanking veterans on her son's behalf.

COOPER: All right. It's just so sad. Kelly, thank you very much.

We're following a number of stories right now "Cross Country." Let's take a look.

Hickam Air force Base, Hawaii: returning home. The possible remains of Howard Dean's brother and three others missing since the Vietnam War are back now on U.S. soil. Charlie Dean, the brother of the Democratic presidential hopeful, disappeared in Laos in 1974. The remains are now at a military lab for an identification process that could take months.

Winfield, West Virginia. Do you remember this rescue from last week? The woman who drove around a roadblock -- you see her right there -- and into floodwaters being pulled out, well, a deputy saw this video right here on CNN, recognized the woman as someone who lost her license back in January.

The deputy ended up charging here with driving with a revoked license. And she has plead guilty to the charges. The dangers of being on TV.

Trenton, New Jersey: help for retired NBA star Alonso Mourning. Dozens of people have expressed interest in donating a kidney to the former New Jersey Nets center. He quit on Monday because he needs a transplant.

The Kidney and Urology foundation of America is referring callers to a specialist who must screen applicants. It says the average wait in America for a kidney transplant is two to four years. Certainly not for this man.

That is a look at stories "Cross Country" right now.

Reality TV getting a little too really? Accusations of rape during the taping of MTV's "Real World." Find out what happened just ahead.

Plus, goddess of the kitchen Nigella Lawson. Find out why she's talking to my mom about Thanksgiving.

And have you heard about the Orgasmatron? I'm not kidding. Doctors are looking for volunteers to try out a new device that may change the way women spend their, well, their leisure time. Sex experts Jennifer and Laura Berman will join me live.

First tonight, let's take a look "Inside the Box" at the tops stories on tonight's network newscasts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, MTV's "Real World" pad in San Diego is right now a potential crime scene. A woman who was not a cast member on the upcoming reality TV series claims she was sexually assaulted at the home. Lee Ann Kim of our affiliate KGTV has more on the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't care. Cry me a river. Stay up all night. All right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's nice.

LEE ANN KIM, KGTV (voice-over): Seen by millions, the "Real World" is a reality show on MTV, documenting a group of strangers living under one roof together. This show was shot in Paris. But the next season, based in San Diego, is currently under production and facing serious controversy.

CAPT. DAVID RAMIREZ, SAN DIEGO POLICE: We've got a lot of detectives on this case. We're well aware that it's a high-profile case, and we're going to do a very thorough investigation.

KIM: A search warrant obtained by 10 News reveals that a 22- year-old woman claims she was sexually assaulted inside San Diego's "Real World" house and has no memory of what happened.

(on camera): The victim says that she came here to this club at On Broadway on the night of November 14 and had a few drinks. Then she was offered another drink by a man that police described as an acquaintance of one of the "Real World" cast members. It was after that drink the victim says she blacked out.

(voice-over): The next thing she remembers is waking up in a guest bedroom in the "Real World" house, a house equipped with dozens of cameras inside and out and security watching the entrance around the clock. This man, who was a guest inside the home a few months ago, tells us it's not easy to get in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) through the security gates. I had to give my I.D. to the security guards. They took it inside. I signed a waiver form.

KIM: It took two hours and a background check before he was approved to go inside. Whether the victim went through the same process is not clear. But the search warrant does say there are 30 cameras watching every room of the home, except for two bathrooms, which may be where the alleged assault took place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, that was Lee Ann Kim of our affiliate KGTV in San Diego. Now, we contacted (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Productions. It issued a statement: "The producers and the cast of the 'Real World' are cooperating fully with local authorities investigating an alleged incident at the 'Real World' house. We have been informed by the police department that no 'Real World' cast or crew members are suspected in the investigation."

Well, we are following a number of international stories at this moment. Let's check the "UpLink."

Washington: new Gitmo deal. The U.S. and Australia reach an agreement on detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Australian born David Hicks (ph), an alleged al Qaeda member, escapes the death penalty and will be sentence to Australia to serve out any sentence handed down by U.S. military tribunals. Now, the deal would apply to another detainee if he also turns out to be an Australian citizen.

London, England: royally extravagant. Take a look at these images. Queen Elizabeth II opened parliament the old-fashioned way in a ceremony rich in pomp and pageantry. According to tradition, on opening day, the queen reads the government's program to lawmakers in the House of Lords.

Also in London, muggings are up, and strangely enough, an American gets blamed for it, at least indirectly. Get this. Police say muggings rose 20 percent from 150 to 180 a day during President Bush's stay at Buckingham Palace. The reason? Well, some say police were taken off their regular beats to provide presidential security.

And finally, Moscow, Russia: back to heavy lifting. Well, apparently not so heavy lifting. A court rules that a prima ballerina sacked by the Bolshoi Theater for being, well, too heavy, must be given her job back. Not only that, she gets over $6,000 in compensation. You may remember, she was originally fired for tipping the scales at 110 pounds.

And that is a look at tonight's "UpLink."

Well, for millions of Americans, the holiday season doesn't really begin until the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade makes its annual appearance on the streets of New York and on TV screens across the country. With the parade now just hours away, crews are already inflating the big balloons that have helped make the parade world famous.

Jason Carroll is live right now at balloon inflation central. Jason, how does it look there?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Looking pretty good. I'm standing in front of a giant pumpkin, which is appropriate, because it is, after all, the night before Thanksgiving. And right over here we have a huge star.

These are just some of the balloons that are lined up here along 77th, which is appropriate, 77th street, because it is Macy's 77th annual Thanksgiving Day Parade. Look, there are even more balloons lined up down here.

Thousands of people come out here for this even to see these balloons being blown up. We actually have a second camera set up so you can get a better vantage point of just how many people come out here to view what's going on out here.

Again, it's all about the kid who come out to look at the balloons. Let's take a quick poll, a very quick poll. Some of your favorites? What was your favorite?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charlie Brown.

CARROLL: Charlie Brown?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clifford.

CARROLL: Clifford. How about you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Garfield.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Garfield we love you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arthur.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arthur.

CARROLL: Arthur. All right. Lots of favorite out here.

Again, it's all about the kids. My favorite was Charlie Brown. Anderson, I'm sure you have a favorite as well. Back to you.

COOPER: And I understand there are three new balloons this year. What are they?

CARROLL: Oh, yes. There are big ones every year. The three big ones this year, the first one that we can talk about, of course, is Strike Up the Band Barney. Barney was in the parade before, but this year he's a new recreated version. He's got a baton; he's leading a band.

We also have Garfield is here again this year. But it's a new Garfield. It's Garfield with his little pal, Pookie (ph), his little stuffed teddy bear that he likes to carry around with him. Just ask the kids, they know all about this.

And the third one is Super Grover, the "Sesame Street" character. Grover, he's back, but he's back as a super hero in this year's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

COOPER: Everyone is getting a makeover these days, all these old cartoon people getting makeovers. All right. Jason Carroll, thanks very much for that.

Coming up, the birds do it, the bees do it. But do some women really need a machine? Well, sex expert Laura Berman joins us live on a new invention, believe it or not, called the Orgasmatron. The FDA has even approved a clinical trial. Believe me, all the women in my office have been talking about this all day. We'll talk to Laura just coming up.

And a little later, in defense of Michael Jackson. What is believed to be the mother of his accuser on tape defending the king of pop. Will that have any effect on the case? Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who has actually heard the tape, weigh in on that.

First, today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly? Vote now: cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SLEEPER")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "SLEEPER": We'll use the Orgasmatron.

DIANE KEATON, ACTRESS, "SLEEPER": That's a good idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.

KEATON: You know, I think (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all had such a good time.

(END VIDEO CLIP, "SLEEPER")

COOPER: Well, that was the Orgasmatron from Woody Allen's movie "Sleeper." The gizmo we are going to talk about looks different, but the goal is actually the same. It's for women.

A small machine implanted under the skin that can trigger an orgasm. The device could cost more than $20,000. It is in clinical trial right now. And a scientist is looking for women to test it. We're trying to imagine the ad for that one. Joining us now to talk about this newfangled Orgasmatron, one of the Berman sisters, sex therapist Laura Berman, who heads The Berman Center in Chicago.

Laura, thanks for being with us. You know, people make jokes about this. But this is actually based -- I mean, it really suits a need. There are many women who have a very serious problem. How extensive is the problem of sexual dysfunction in women?

LAURA BERMAN, DIRECTOR, BERMAN CENTER: Well, sexual dysfunction affects 43 percent of American women. Orgasm disorders, the statistics showed 10 percent to 15 percent of women can't achieve orgasm at all, and 33 percent to 55 percent of women experience orgasm at a frequency that they consider too infrequent.

Now the real issue is, what is causing this so-called orgasmic disorder? If it's something that is emotional or relationship issues or lack of education or understanding about their body and what needs to be done to stimulate themselves, then an Orgasmatron-type of device is not the answer. But there is a population of women who really do have medical causes for their sexual problems, who have nerve sensory impairments. And this may be a really great option for them.

COOPER: Well, let's talk then about -- well, for them, let's talk about how this device actually works. It's actually implanted near the spine, is that correct?

BERMAN: Right. There are electrodes that are implanted near the spine -- or in the spine, but in the region of the spine that corresponds to genital sensation. And then a signal generator is implanted right under the buttocks. It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and then there's a remote control so the woman or whoever can stimulate the nerve pathways through the remote control.

COOPER: Now, I mean, there are devices out there already. I mean, I guess, why are those not effective enough. I mean, why do you need something that is actually so invasive you actually need surgery to have it?

BERMAN: Well, this is actually something that was originally designed. It's called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) therapy. It was originally designed for overactive or under-active bladder, or even for management of pain. And it was discovered by accident that it could also promote sexual sensation and orgasms. So it is a new application of a device that's already been in existence.

There's also other devices. There's a new device that is less invasive that's called Slightest Touch that also uses electrodes and an electrolyte drink to sort of stimulate the nerve pathways, and then electrodes on the ankles that create stimulation. And that does not create orgasms, the company claims, but creates an arousal process, increases the woman's arousal to get her closer to orgasm. But both of these companies really need to do clinical trials in this area to really establish the efficacy.

COOPER: Well, the FDA apparently has approved a clinical trial for this new device. But I guess the doctor is actually having trouble finding people to try out for it.

BERMAN: Right. That's for the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) therapy, the one with the electrodes that are inserted. Yes. I mean, he sort of says -- I've heard him say that it's no different than getting a breast implant. Well, a breast implant is a pretty invasive procedure.

You know, there are women out there who definitely would be willing, and maybe they are listening to this show right now, to explore this option. But it is invasive. It is not something to be taken completely lightly.

And you also want to make sure that the woman who is getting the treatment is the right candidate. If she's better suited for education or therapy, then that's the direction she should be going.

COOPER: All right. Laura Berman, always good to talk to you. Thanks, Laura.

BERMAN: Sure. Good to be here.

COOPER: Well, there's a mountain of research on how often people have sex. There's actually less information on the health benefits. But we did find one study that put orgasms and health in perspective.

It was done in Scotland a decade ago looking at 3,500 men and women between the ages of 18 and 102 -- 102. It found that men having orgasms three or more times a week had a reduction in heart disease and lived longer than those who didn't. For women, it lowered blood pressure, and for some, seemed to reduce the incidence of breast cancer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): The defense has a tape of the alleged Michael Jackson victim. Could it clear Jackson's name?

Food and family. Domestic diva Nigella Lawson and my mom talk turkey.

And what movies to see this Thanksgiving.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for "The Reset." Lets check some of today's top stories.

Washington, D.C.: a wife's plea. Sarah Brady says John Hinckley Jr. should not be allowed to leave his mental hospital without supervision. Brady's husband, former presidential press secretary, James Brady was of course severely wounded when Hinckley tried to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981. Hinckley is seeking court permission to make unsupervised visits to his parents family's home. Mrs. Brady argued against that request, that Hinckley ruined her husband's life and that her family fears for its safety if Hinckley gets out.

Washington, D.C.: new deployments. The Pentagon has announced it will deploy more than 17,000 army, navy, and air force national guard and reserve personnel to Iraq, as well as 3,000 Marines. Officials say the mobilization is part of a previously announced troop rotation plan.

Atlanta, Georgia: flu warning. Officials at the National Centers For Disease Control And Prevention say it may be a very bad flu season. The flu has hit several western states unusually early and in Colorado, four children have died of influenza since last week.

Columbus, Ohio: freeway shootings. Authorities are investigating a series of shooting incidents along Ohio's Interstate 270. One woman was killed yesterday when a bullet ripped through the door of a car she was riding in. A total of nine shooting incidents have been reported along this stretch of road in recent months, but police say it is too early to tell whether they are related.

And that is a look at our "Reset."

Justice served tonight. The Michael Jackson case and the tale of the tape. The tape we are talking about is the audiotape that a source close to the Jackson defense played for our legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom. You heard from Kimberly earlier about what the tape said, someone believed to be the mother of the alleged victim, describing Jackson as quote a father figure. We wanted to try to place when this tape was made and when the allegations were made against Jackson.

Joining us from New York, Court TV Anchor Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom again from San Francisco. Appreciate both of you joining us.

Kimberly, lets just start of with you. Just to recap what did the mother say about Jackson on this tape?

KIMBERLY GIULFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Basically it sounds like he is someone she greatly admired, that he was a father figure to her children that he quote, unquote "gave them advice, provided them with a sense of humor and guidance to the point where their biological father was jealous of this relationship." They said god blessed them by bringing them together as a family. And you hear in this tape just the effusiveness in which she speaks about Michael Jackson as somebody that she really admires and looks up to. And that came to this troubled family at a point in their life and their time when they really needed someone. And he basicly filled a void for them that didn't have and they needed him.

COOPER: And Kimberly, as far as we know, this tape was made -- I guess the defense team is alleging this tape was made in February. And it was what made by a private investigator who visited?

NEWSOM: Part of the Jackson team. One of the investigators sat down with the mother and her child and made this tape. And then a month later was the affidavit sign under penalty of perjury. COOPER: All right. Lisa, I want to bring you in here. Let's just go through this timeline of event that we have. February 6th, that documentary airs. Later in February this audiotape allegedly made. March an affidavit is signed by the mother and boy allegedly. Then also in March, the concerned mother contacts an attorney in June, alleged sexual abuse reported to police. Does this tape, I mean, is it a bombshell?

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: I don't see how it's a bombshell at all, Anderson. Keep in mind, Michael Jackson is not alleged to have forcibly raped anyone. He's alleged to have sexually abused a child. Now, this is in the context of a relationship. We know the child went to Neverland. We know that his family was close to Jackson. Jackson, reading between the lines of these charges, is alleged to have seduced this boy. Entered into a relationship that some would call a loving relationship. That's what pedophilia is about, loving a child. The fact the family liked Jackson and trusted him at one point doesn't say a lot to me.

COOPER: Kimberly what about that?

NEWSOM: Anderson.

COOPER: Go ahead.

NEWSOM: The tape directly contradicts that. The mother and the alleged victim in this case are saying that Jackson never acted inappropriately towards him whatsoever. Just as a father. That it was an appropriate relations...

BLOOM: But why are they being asked that question, February?

NEWSOM: ... like a father and a son. They are making these statements on their own volition. That's what is so compelling about this tape. Either this alleged abuse incident occurred after this tape was made or someone wasn't telling the truth at the time that this tape was prepared. And that's the trouble the prosecution is going to have to overcome. And, Anderson, in your timeline, it's unclear that she contacted an attorney in March. Reports that I'm getting is that she contacted a civil attorney in June and then subsequently contacted the police to make the charges.

COOPER: There certainly a lot of questions still be answered. The prosecution, though if this tape does even make it to court, if this case even does make it to court, the prosecution could say look, this young man did not tell his mother at the time this tape was made, if in fact the tape was legitimate, and she didn't know and, therefore, they signed these affidavits. If that is, in fact, what they did. There is an explanation for it. It didn't necessarily destroy the prosecution's case.

BLOOM: We don't even know what the circumstances are. I think we in the press have an obligation to be critical and not just swallow whole whatever the defense chooses to leak. I often think the defense tends to leaks things in inverse proportions to the strength of the case at trial. They haven't leaked the tape. They played the tape for Kimberly and perhaps for others. They have not even leaked the entire tape. So, we don't know what the circumstances are. We don't know what's going on with this tape. At this point it's a leak. It is only a leak by Jackson and his massively well-funded PR machine. And I think we have to keep that in mind.

NEWSOM: Well, Anderson, what we do know is that these are very serious charges and this is a question that bothers me as a prosecutor. Why hasn't the D.A Filed the charges in this case?

If he hasn't and these are serious charges, serious allegations and if this alleged victim was in fact molested, these charges should be filed.

BLOOM: Well, he said he was going to file them after Thanksgiving, so, still on his old time frame.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: You know, this 12-year-old boy does not have a multimillion dollar P.R. machine. He doesn't have a high-profile attorney. He's just a boy, a working class child with cancer who doesn't have a team of people selectively leaking things to the press. That's the concern that I have.

COOPER: Kimberly, is there...

NEWSOM: The power and strength of the D.A.'s office, is considerable. Having been a prosecutor.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: The D.A. is not leaking things to the press.

NEWSOM: The D.A. has been leaking quite a lot, through people at Court TV as well.

COOPER: Does the defense believe at all that the prosecution jumped the gun. I mean, is there a sense of confidence among the defense right now?

NEWSOM: There is because they are wondering, if he has the charges to bring, why aren't they being brought forward?

Why all the delay?

We heard the D.A. say he was going to issue this arrest warrant prior to Halloween but there were a lot of trick or treaters in the Santa Barbara area, so he put it off. And this wasn't to jeopardize his album. And then he said we're going to put it off after Thanksgiving. Again, if there is a child molester out there on the loose, then bring the charges and get this case going. Both sides deserve that.

BLOOM: I think the case should be tried at trial, Anderson, and not on these kind of leaks.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there.

Lisa Bloom, Court TV.

Kimberly Giulfoyle Newsom, thanks very much.

We mentioned last night the sales figures were due out today on Jackson's album. He're as quick news note on how it has been selling. Jackson's new album "Number Ones" ranked number 13 on the music charts this week, not exactly a thriller. The self-proclaimed king of pop was outsold by -- well, Britney Spears. Her new album, "In the Zone" topped the music charts, landing on the number one spot this week.

That brings us to today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly?

What do you think?

Vote now, cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.

And this holiday week, you know what you'll be eating. But there are lots of different ways to prepare it. We're going to get family cooking tips from author and TV host Nigella Lawson along with the most blatant display of Nepotism since the last time I had my mom on. Also tonight, it's the holiday season, so how come Santa get's not respect? Yes, Virginia there is a bad Santa as you see when we talk about movies when return.

Also, tonight, the holiday season, so how come Santa gets no respect? yes, Virginia, there is a bad Santa.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIGELLA LAWSON, HOST, "NIGELLA BITES": We just have a quick -- mmm. We need pepper. Right. Bed, television, food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: When they told me they booked cook book author and cooking show host Nigella Lawson from "Nigella Bites" on the Style Channel, my first reaction was, but I don't really care about food. Knowing that a lot of people are interested in food around the holidays, my second reaction was, how do I get out of this? My third reaction was to do what everyone sometimes does, I called my mom. And luckily for me, my mom is crazy about Nigella, and thanks to Nigella is now crazy about cooking. You'll notice I only used the word "crazy" twice. Fortunately, my mom was crazy enough to step in and help me out. She joins us today. Mom, thanks for being with us.

GLORIA VANDERBILT, ANDERSON'S MOM: Well, I'm thrilled to be here.

COOPER: And in London, we're joined by Nigella Lawson. Nigella, thanks for being with us. My mom keeps talking about sort of your passion for food and the sexiness that you bring to food. Were you always like that as a cook?

LAWSON: Well, it's very difficult to be self-conscious in this regard, because in a way I suppose I will always be passionate about food and cooking, but I think I come at food from the point of view of someone who loves eating and likes giving food to my friends. I'm not out of the French chef stable, and I am not an expert, and so I suppose I want to talk about why I love food, or what it means to me, or the feel of it.

VANDERBILT: Nigella, that is the essence of what your inspiration is, I think, to all of us. Is not measuring out things like coffee spoons. Everything has to be measured. There's a spontaneity and a freedom that really makes one feel, I don't know, high spirited and that it's easy to do.

COOPER: But doesn't this stuff have to be measured fully? Maybe I'm just too anal retentive. But Nigella, doesn't this stuff have to be measured fully and accurately?

LAWSON: Some things have to be measured fully and accurately. When you bake, baking is a formula. You can't decide to put two eggs in one bay and three eggs in other. But when you are making, say, something like a stew, you know, some people worry because they say, should I put three carrots or four carrots in. And the thing is, well, if you have got three carrots in the fridge, I put three in, and if you've got four, I put four in. It's not going to be life or death. And it does mean that you either have less carrots or more carrots, or fewer carrots or more carrots.

VANDERBILT: Nigella, now tomorrow is going to be Thanksgiving Day. Do you have any tips for us here?

LAWSON: Thanksgiving is about celebrating being able to feast, to be in this wonderful land of plenty. And so I think that really has to be what the meal is about. So it shouldn't be about being anxious about whether you've done an impressive enough appetizer, it shouldn't be about, you know, whether you've managed to sort of hand- chisel some place setting. It should be about celebrating family or friends and the wonderfulness of having and the fortune of having food in abundance.

VANDERBILT: Nigella, I would love to ask you, when you first started this amazing show, did you have any idea that you would become our leader, our guru, to become goddesses in the kitchen?

COOPER: It sounds like a cult here.

VANDERBILT: It is a cult. It absolutely is.

LAWSON: I did the show, which I did at home, and I wasn't scripted. I just kind of babbled on and wanted to talk, I suppose, to the viewers, like I might talk to a friend in the kitchen. I didn't have any ideas about it. I suppose I just did it, and that's the best way. And I think that's why people respond, because I suppose there are few things as intimate as food, so that if you can get some of that across, then there's always going to be an appetite for that. Anyway, I love it, so I'm pleased, and I love it when I get responses like yours, Gloria, because in a sense, it is all about making a connection.

COOPER: Now, Nigella, I don't know if you quite understand what has happened here. My mom has never cooked in her entire life, and literally she now subjects everyone to her meals. I've yet to actually brave this myself.

VANDERBILT: You've had the beat soup.

COOPER: Yeah, I've had beat soup.

LAWSON: I know you -- you like -- you like eating -- you like eating those drinks out of packets.

COOPER: I do.

(CROSSTALK)

LAWSON: I might get you cooking, too, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, I don't know about that. We'll see. We'll see. Well, maybe. I'll give it a try. Maybe once the pressure of Thanksgiving is over.

LAWSON: You never know.

COOPER: But I appreciate -- it's great actually seeing my mom happy in the kitchen, and sort of having a new lease on life in the kitchen. So I appreciate all that you've done. And I know that you don't celebrate Thanksgiving...

LAWSON: Thank you.

COOPER: ... but I wish you did, and the best of luck to you.

LAWSON: I will.

COOPER: All right. Take care. Nigella Lawson.

LAWSON: Thank you.

COOPER: Well, my mom and Nigella joined us earlier. You can laugh all you want, but you should see my mom interview Yasser Arafat. That is something.

All right, time to check out tonight's pop culture "Current." "The New York Daily News" reports that Dennis Kozlowski took a break from his trial on charges he spent millions of dollars of Tyco's money. Kozlowski went out for dinner this week and enjoyed a $2,000 bottle of wine. To put that in perspective, for that kind of money he could have bought one-third of a shower curtain.

"The New York Post" reports that Sean "P. Diddy" Combs won an award at VH1's "Big in '03" show, the old-fashioned way, by throwing a temper tantrum. The Diddy threw an alleged hissy when he found out he was only there to give an award to Ashton Kutcher. So reportedly, he asked to get the "Big Maverick '03" award. Because nothing says maverick like getting an award from VH1.

Paul McCartney's daughter, Stella, 31-year-old fashion designer, best known as, well, maybe Paul McCartney's daughter, tells "The London Daily Mail" she has a gift for singing and if people stop liking her clothes, she'll make a record. Officials are taking the threat seriously.

German scientists have found a petrified group of nuts 75 million years old. We don't have any pictures of the nuts. It's actually the oldest known kind of stored food, easily shattering the previous record held by half a slice of white cheese pizza discovered in the back of my freezer last August.

And speaking of old nuts, Santa Claus. What? Gets the gross-out treatment in one of weekend's big movies. Find out whether that's in your choice of the movies this weekend. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATE BLANCHETT, ACTRESS: Who took your sister?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wore a hood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Not exactly cheery holiday fair. That's Ron Howard's new movie which opens today. A lot of new movies opening up for this holiday weekend. There may be something even more scary than that Ron Howard movie out there this weekend, however, Billy Bob Thornton. I asked "New York Times" film critic, Elvis Mitchell, about Thornton's newest role when we sat down to check out the new movies for this holiday edition of "The Weekender."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: The holiday spirit is upon us all, except for the people who made this movie "Bad Santa," which it doesn't seem very Christmasy.

ELVIS MITCHELL "NEW YORK TIMES": I don't know, if you've been shopping the day after Thanksgiving. That is the holiday spirit. There's a lot of bad Santas and a lot of misery being spread around the malls.

COOPER: Let's take a look at a clip.

BILLY BOB THORNTON, ACTOR: What do you want? Come on, what do you want? A snot rag?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not real. THORNTON: Well, it was real, but, you see, I got sick and all the hair fell out and I have to wear this thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get sick?

THORNTON: I loved a woman who wasn't clean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Santa?

THORNTON: No, it was her sister.

COOPER: My God. It looks very funny.

MITCHELL: I'm sorry. I just get so emotional seeing this stuff this time of year. It brings something out of me.

It's kind of in the same tradition as "Scrooged" with all that holiday aggression and hostility that a lot of us have and don't want to own up to. This movie is about that. Billy Bob Thornton plays a safecracker who sort of like shakes off the DTs and the drinking habit once a year, has sex with hookers and robs department store safes while posing as Santa Claus.

COOPER: It made David Savaris (ph) look up beat when he was the Elf. Let me ask you about this other movie, "The Missing," which I've seen a preview for it and it looks kind of cool. I'm actually kind of excited about it, and I rarely get excited.

MITCHELL: That's why they do these things in the previews to reel guys in, like you and me. I've seen it already.

It's weird because what it basically is, is an uncomplicated version of "The Searchers." Kate Blanchett is this sort of frontier woman healer whose 13-year-old daughter is developed. She and her estranged father, Tommy Lee Jones, goes after her. She's kidnapped by these Indian/white slavers. But the movie exists from like the neck up, because they beat these girls and they threaten them, but there's never any sex.

COOPER: Let's take a look at a clip.

TOMMY LEE JONES, ACTOR: We'll ride at first light in the morning. If we can catch up to them, I might have enough money to buy her back. If they make it to Mexico, your child is lost.

COOPER: This is directed by Ron Howard. It looks kind of bleak now.

MITCHELL: Well, Ron Howard -- yes, it does look kind of bleak. Is it time for me to leave already? What's the drink minimum here? It's weird, because "The Searchers" is a movie over 40 years old. It's a movie about John Wayne playing this paranoid pilgrim who is incensed by the fact that his niece has been kidnapped by Indians and has probably been -- well had sex with them. And that really drives the movie. It's not spoken, but it's definitely a part of the dramatic dynamic of that picture. This movie made, in the 21st century, except for the violenceness, incredibly brutal, it could be on Lifetime. Again, it exists from like the shoulders up.

COOPER: The other big movie opening up, "Haunted Mansion." Worth seeing?

MITCHELL: Let me put it this way, no.

COOPER: If you can only see one movie this holiday week, what would you see?

MITCHELL: If you don't want to take the Manson family, because that's the only family you can take to see "Bad Santa," with you, I'd recommend "Elf." Which is really sweet and touching. Has one of the scenes I think, is one of the best scenes this year. It involves a guy who thinks he's an elf overhearing a girl singing, "Baby, It's Cold Outside" in the shower. It's incidentally a very romantic scene.

COOPER: All right. I will go see that. Elvis Mitchell, thanks.

MITCHELL: Good to be here.

COOPER: Elf it is.

Coming up Monday on 360, World AIDS Day: the human faces of a world epidemic. Whatever happened to a generation of AIDS babies? Still a lot ahead, though, tonight. Just when you thought it was safe to go to the movies in Mexico, "Gigli" is back. That's right, it's back, only you may not recognize it. Once again, we're going to take that to the "Nth Degree."

And first, tonight's "Buzz." Still have time to weigh in, "are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly?" What do you think? Vote now, cnn.com/360. The results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." "Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly?" 61 percent of you said yes. 39 percent said no. Not a scientific poll, just viewer buzz.

Tonight, movie makeovers to the "Nth degree." Remember "Gigli," the Ben Affleck/Jennifer Lopez flop from this summer? Well "Variety" now reports that Columbia Pictures opened "Gigli" in Mexico just this month. Except they're calling it "Gigli" anymore? Now it's "Una Relocion Peligrosa," a dangerous relationship.

Columbia Pictures may be on to something here. But if they really wanted to turn it into a hit overseas, they should have been more creative. Perhaps when the movie opens in Venezuela they call it "el Matrix" or they could open big in France with, "La Finding Nemo."

You got to give the studios credit. Simply renaming flops is a big idea. Next year NBC could bring back "Coupling" under a new name, "Friends" perhaps. It could work for CDs as well. Michael Jackson's new "Number Ones" isn't doing so hot. But I'd rush out and buy it if he called it "Britney, Naked."

Does a rose by any other name sound as sweet? Who cares, as long as you pay for it.

That's it for tonight's edition of "60 Minutes." I'm Walter Cronkite. "PAULA ZAHN" is next.

END

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