Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Preliminary Autopsy on Nathaniel Jones Released; Shootout in Samarra; Interview With Robert Baer
Aired December 01, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening right now, new information emerging about this shocking videotape. What provoked the police to beat this man. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Shootout in Samarra. The bloodiest battle in months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had incoming and direct fire from mortars. We also had RPGs coming through here. Just hitting us all around.
BLITZER: Who's behind the attacks in Iraq? I'll ask former CIA officer Robert Baer.
Bending on steel. Will President Bush blink in the face of threats from Europe and Asia?
Died in custody. A 400-pound man and six police officers. Was there another way?
Virtual lifesaver. A 3-D difference in the fight against cancer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Monday, December 1, 2003.
BLITZER: It was no ordinary hit and run strike against a soft target. The United States military says dozens of insurgents launched simultaneous attacks on convoys, carrying currency for local banks. Those convoys were guarded by U.S. tanks and armored personnel carriers. And according to the United States military, the guerrillas took a beating, with the death toll running into the dozens. But what is the whole story? CNN's Nic Robertson reports from the town of Samarra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These were 762 mm, AK round went through the door.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shot up, banged up Humvees entered the ferocity of the battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then to the other side...
ROBERTSON: Soldiers provide testimony.
STAFF SGT. BRUCE JONES, U.S. ARMY: There I am in the middle of a huge firefight with bullets and mortars and RPGs falling all around me.
ROBERTSON: Commanders, the details.
COL. FREDERICK RUDESHEIM, U.S. ARMY: We can have multiple attacks both at the banks, because that was a given location that they knew we'd go to, and the routes that we most likely would use going in and out.
ROBERTSON: Repairs now under way from what coalition officials describe as the largest engagement since the end of major combat.
(on camera): Forty-six Iraqis killed, 18 wounds, and 11 taken prisoner, according to officers here. Intelligence officials say among those may have been members of Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen. They also acknowledge that in the ferocity of such a firefight, there may have been civilian casualties.
(voice-over): In Samarra, Tariq Azar (ph) angrily points to his shot up living room. "Look at what the U.S. troops have done," he says. Asked about the gun clip on his floor, he shows it's empty. "No one was firing from here," he insists.
His friend adding, "the resistance had been told to stand down."
But in apparent contradiction, another man in the crowded room adds, "my invalid brother was killed in the crossfire."
In the hospital where the wounded are still being treated, anger seems strongest, particularly from the mother of this man. "They burned his car and hit him," she is says. "Where is the freedom Bush promised?"
Those in this ward claiming they were leaving work when they were shot.
This Iraqi police major has been examining the lists of wounded and dead, 50 injured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of all the injured brought to the hospital, we haven't seen any in black uniforms belonging to the Saddam Fedayeen."
ROBERTSON: He also contradicts the coalition again, saying only eight people died, among them an elderly Iranian man.
Away from our camera and crowds, an Iraqi told us what he described as resistance fighters had been preparing for an attack.
One man being taken away for treatment showed he had some fight left in him. Nic Robertson, CNN, Samarra, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Was the Samarra attack just a bank job gone bad, or does it represent a bold new tactic of meeting U.S. troops head-on? The battle is raising many important questions. Let's go live to CNN's Walter Rodgers in Baghdad.
What does this incident in Samarra tell us about the tactics of the insurgents, Walter?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it suggests the U.S. Army was wrong in its estimation and forecast about the tactics that the Iraqi insurgents would be using. Within the last week, they were saying that the American military had been so successful in confronting the insurgents that the Iraqis were switching to so-called soft targets. Indeed just an hour before this incident happened, that very same statement was being made by a top U.S. general here in Baghdad. And what the Iraqis did was resort to a tactic that they used very successfully against U.S. forces during the war, that is a rather well organized ambush. And the Iraqis went back to their old tactic of attacking U.S. forces and attacking them with considerable courage and strength -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What does it also suggest, Walter, about the nature of U.S. intelligence? Some military experts here in Washington suggesting the U.S. coalition forces are getting better on the ground intelligence right now that in weeks and months past. Is that what you're hearing?
RODGERS: Well, I can tell you on this specific incident in Samarra, the U.S. forces had been in that town during this money exchange, bringing bank notes into the town four times in the last three or four weeks. Every time U.S. forces went into Samarra, they took small arms fire. So this time when the U.S. Army went in, they went in with eight tanks, those are eight main battle tanks. That's heavy weaponry. Plus four Bradley fighting vehicles.
And so the U.S. was not surprised. Indeed, they rather anticipated, even if they didn't know there was going to be a specific ambush, by the way some soldiers began to smell it when they didn't see people on the streets. But the Army was well prepared for this, and again, all you have to do is look at the score, upwards of 46, maybe 54 Iraqis killed, only five Americans injured. And four of those Americans are back in their units tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter Rodgers with the latest from Baghdad. Thank you very much, Walter.
While U.S. troops are under attack on a daily basis, they are also pressing forward with a hunt for al Qaeda and its commanders. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is traveling with the key American commander in the war on terror. She brings us this exclusive report from Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At remote bases in eastern Afghanistan reachable only by helicopter rides through steep mountain valleys, General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, visits troops on the front lines of the war on terror. He spoke in detail about the current threat posed by Osama bin Laden and worrisome signs of al Qaeda activity in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We see their hallmark in places like Istanbul. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't prove to have some connection to al Qaeda. Again, it's my speculation based upon their method of operation, not based upon any specific intelligence that I've seen. And it's also based on the type of operation that we saw in Nasiriya against the Italians. It has the hallmark of al Qaeda as well.
STARR: U.S. Special Forces in these mountains urgently press the hunt because of what bin Laden and his top aide, Ayman al-Zawahiri, still might be able to do.
ABIZAID: Their ability to order day-to-day operations is very low. Their ability to order a large attack in a specific period at a specific place, which would be a strategic type of an attack, I think is still viable. And both Osama bin Laden and Zawahiri, in my mind, are somewhere in this vicinity.
STARR: There is confidence that bin Laden's ability to direct and organize al Qaeda's operations has been seriously impaired. But for Abizaid, no complacency.
ABIZAID: His ability to order tactical, day-to-day activity is almost nil. He doesn't have a command and control network that would allow him to reach out to troops on the ground and say, go to this place and do this action. Nor does he really have what we would call an operational capability.
For example, have a group of fighters come together in the near term to conduct an operation. But a longer, deeper strategic operation, he could through the use of couriers and other means bring something like that together.
STARR: U.S. intelligence continues to believe that bin Laden is hiding out somewhere along Afghanistan's border with Pakistan, and that someday, someone will offer the one crucial tip that will lead to his capture or death.
Barbara Starr, CNN, eastern Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Turkey's government now says last month's devastating suicide bombings are, in fact, apparently, linked to al Qaeda. Dozens were killed and hundreds wounded in the attacks on two synagogues, a British bank and the British consulate in Istanbul. After a cabinet meeting today, Turkey's deputy prime minister said the latest information points directly to the terror network. He said 21 people have been charged in connection with the bombings.
Who's behind the attacks in Iraq? Have local insurgents formed an alliance with al Qaeda? Are they a step ahead of U.S. intelligence?
All good questions. Joining us now, the author Robert Baer. He spent two decades in the CIA, much of that time on the ground in the Middle East, including Iraq. Bob, thanks very much for joining us. Good questions.
First of all, do you believe al Qaeda is related to these attacks, or are these Fedayeen local Iraqis, still loyal to Saddam Hussein?
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: I think we're seeing both. The suicide attacks are being carried out by al Qaeda or groups associated with al Qaeda. Whether they're coming from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran. And I think what we're seeing is organized armed forces on the ground operating almost independently but also coordinated. This attack on Samarra, what it tells me is they're drawing U.S. troops into the city. So they have to respond and take civilian casualties or cause civilian casualties, in order for the United States to lose support.
BLITZER: In other words, they wanted to lose 46 or 50 of their own insurgents...
BAER: I'm not...
BLITZER: ... assuming some were civilians, which could generate popular opposition?
BAER: Exactly. They want to cause as much destruction in urban areas as possible. It is a classic guerrilla tactic, used by Mao Zedong. And unless we control this, it could get worse.
BLITZER: Well, what happens -- so tomorrow, this convoy of the Bradley fighting vehicles, the Abrams battle tanks moving in to bring currency to a bank that needs that currency. Was that a factor, potentially, by the way, in this incident, the insurgents wanting the money after all? They probably could use some of that cash.
BAER: I don't think so. I think it's more a question is they want to show their capability of attacking an armored unit like this, of A tanks. That they are capable of doing -- organizing, putting the people on the ground, hitting them with RPGs, small arms, backing away, forcing the Americans to respond, killing some of them, but also...
BLITZER: But these grenades, these RPGs, the kind of weapons they have would have no impact on a Bradley fighting vehicle or Abrams battle tank?
BAER: It is symbolic. It is symbolic. And they want to show that they can carry out these attacks at will.
BLITZER: Based on what you know right now, is U.S. intelligence on the ground, battle intelligence, getting better?
BAER: Some of it is. But the problem is the Sunni triangle, where these people are truly hostile to the United States. It's very unlikely anybody is going to cooperate with U.S. intelligence at this point. Even if they wanted to, they're afraid of reprisals.
BLITZER: What are they, afraid the United States is going to cut and run and those who collaborate or cooperate with the U.S. and coalition...
BAER: Exactly.
BLITZER: ... are going to be toast?
BAER: They'll be toast by next summer if we leave.
BLITZER: In other words, that's why -- that's why the intelligence is not getting better, people are not coming out to help the United States and its coalition partners?
BAER: They're afraid to. I mean, there is almost a civil war going on in the Sunni community. Right now, in Ramadi, there are people that support the United States that are dying every day.
BLITZER: What do you make of the power of the Ayatollah Ali Al- Sistani, the Shiite leader in the south? He seems to be a powerful figure right now, perhaps emerging as the most powerful figure in Iraq?
BAER: What he's saying is, listen, we are 60 percent of the population. We want one man, one vote. And if we get this, this is going to be a Shia republic. And that's going to be our stand. And this is what's worrying coalition authorities.
BLITZER: In other words, they are trying to get a democratically elected Islamic, fundamentalist, ayatollah-led regime, is that what you're saying?
BAER: Which keeps in mind that it further disenfranchises the Sunni Arabs, which are 20 percent of the population. They said, listen, we are not going to turn over power willingly to the Shia Muslims.
BLITZER: Bob Baer, as usual, thanks very much.
BAER: Thanks.
BLITZER: Here is your turn to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this, who is behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency? Saddam Hussein? Foreign fighters? You can vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast. While you're there, I would love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Send me your comments anytime. I will try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column. Cnn.com/wolf. Controversy in Cincinnati.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers were also taken down to CIS, and they were treated as criminals. The officers are treated as criminals. They're read their rights. What in that video, what did these officers do wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A man takes on six police officers. Who's responsible for the deadly outcome?
Buckling under pressure. The White House apparently ready to change policy on steel imports.
And thousands killed every day. A worldwide disease with no signs of containment. And this is fact, not movie fiction.
But today, first, our "News Quiz."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): Which U.S. metropolitan area has the highest number of AIDS cases? Miami, New York City, San Francisco, Washington, D.C.? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: African-American activists in Cincinnati are calling for the city's police chief to step down. They're angry over the latest violent encounter between a black man and police, this one with a deadly ending.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back!
BLITZER (voice-over): This is the tape investigators are poring over as they try to piece together the last moments of Nathaniel Jones' life. It is the culmination of a chain of events that started with a 911 call just between dawn Sunday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: The 41-year-old Jones, seen here in a mugshot from a previous arrest, was found unconscious outside a fast food restaurant. An emergency crew responded, and reported a short time later that Jones was awake and becoming a nuisance. Police were dispatched to the scene, and there was a struggle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up! Back up, back up!
BLITZER: Officers say the 400-pound Jones lunged at them, ignoring their orders and resisting efforts to handcuff him. The tape shows police repeatedly striking Jones with their batons. Jones was finally subdued and taken by ambulance to a hospital, where he died within minutes. The cause of death and of his violent behavior are still a mystery.
CALVERT SMITH, NAACP CINCINNATI CHAPTER PRESIDENT: We are not trying to say this this gentleman was innocent. I don't know what the circumstances were, but I have seen the film, and the kind of beating that I observed would raise questions in anyone's mind.
BLITZER: Especially in Cincinnati, where the fatal shooting of a black suspect by white officers sparked three days of rioting in 2001. Similar incidents since then have raised tension between police and the black community. The officers in this case are on administrative leave pending investigation.
Cincinnati's mayor says their actions were appropriate.
MAYOR CHARLIE LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: They controlled the situation, and even after they started trying to get the man down and telling him what to do, you can see him continue to wail and struggle and grab the nightstick. And the police officers have a legitimate interest in making absolutely certain that they protected their own lives and their own safety.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Late this afternoon the Hamilton County coroner said Jones had an enlarged heart and traces of cocaine and angel dust in his system. The coroner says a full report on the cause of death will be issued after tests on the remains are completed.
For more now, we're joined by CNN's Mike Brooks. He's at the CNN Center in Atlanta. He's a former law enforcement official who can tell us more about what we're seeing on that videotape.
First of all, Mike, the fact that the coroner now suggesting traces of cocaine and angel dust. What, if anything, might -- what impact that could have on the whole incident?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It could have a huge impact, Wolf. Both cocaine and angel dust, which is the street name for PCP fencyclodine (ph), they're both central nervous stimulants and have been associated with violent and bizarre behavior. And I can tell you, Wolf, back when I was in law enforcement in D.C. for 26 years, back in the late '70s and early '80s, we saw a lot of people who were high on PCP. And when you go to arrest these people, they just have some super human strength, and their tolerance to pain is extremely high. And they won't do what you tell them to do.
So whether this played a major role in this particular incident or not remains to be seen.
Also I wanted to say, Wolf, that in the autopsy report, the doctors said that there was no evidence of transmission of force to internal organs. So, again, that's just part of the autopsy. This is a preliminary. They have not issued a final cause of death as of yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Was this videotape that we're showing our viewers, Mike, taken from a dashboard from one of the police cars on the scene?
BROOKS: Yes, it was, it was from the onboard camera. We've seen this a number of times now in some of the other television shows. But again, it shows exactly what happened when he first got on the scene. We saw the -- Mr. Jones, as the officers were telling him to get back, to get back, as they were approaching him, he lunged at them, striking one of the officers, it was visible, with his forearm in the head. Right then, you have an assault on a police officer, so again, they could not let this just go and let him go about his way. And as we saw, very, very violent confrontation.
And it doesn't look good. I mean, the layperson looking at this, Wolf, who has never been involved in any kind of confrontation, to look at this and without knowing and having been in any confrontation like this, they would say, you know, this is horrible. But again, not a rush to judgment. We have now the preliminary results of the coroner's report. And there's still more investigation to be done on this particular case.
BLITZER: And very briefly, Mike, you have seen the whole videotape from start to end. We have not seen the whole thing. But when you see the whole thing in context, the bottom line from your professional standpoint?
BROOKS: Well, the bottom line is, Wolf, having been in situations like this and now knowing that he was -- he was -- had PCP and cocaine onboard in his system, the bottom line is, these officers were lucky to get out with no injuries.
Again, the force that they used doesn't look good to the layperson, but using a bat, especially on someone who is 350 pounds, and you saw him grab the baton from one of the officers. The officers had two hands, he had one. It was a very, very violent confrontation. And unfortunately, Mr. Jones did die, apparently as a result of a medical condition. But again, we have to wait for the final autopsy results to come back from a coroner before a complete judgment is made in this incident.
BLITZER: With those drugs in his system and an enlarged heart, we don't know what the impact, but we'll get that official coroner's report. That's coming up.
Thanks very much, Mike Brooks, for that. And to our viewers, this important note. In just a few minutes, I will be speaking live with an important community leader in Cincinnati about the story of Nathaniel Jones and his death. That's coming up.
Meanwhile, a reward in a deadly highway shooting. That story tops our "Justice Report." Businesses in the Columbus, Ohio area are now offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the person who shot a 62-year-old woman last Tuesday. It's the only fatality in a series of 11 shootings at cars driving along Interstate 270. Investigators have matched shells in two of those incidents. And jury selection had begun in the manslaughter trial of South Dakota Congressman Bill Janklow. The former four-term governor is charged with a death of a motorcyclist in a traffic accident in August. If convicted, Janklow could get up to a 10-year sentence.
Tough position and little room for choice. Facing international pressure, the president plans a move on steel imports that could affect you and your wallet.
Catching a deadly killer before it strikes. New technology in the fight against colon cancer.
Attempts to spy, but on whom? A new twist in the Michael Jackson case. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Showing a strong presence. The United States military stepping up searches in a deadly and very dangerous area. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: On a swing through America's industrial heartland, President Bush faces a politically heart-rending decision, bow to world pressure and lift tariffs on imported steel, or anger steel- making states in an election year? Let's go live to our senior White House correspondent John King. He's following this story -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, we're told no decision from the White House today. But quite soon we are told the president is now poised to make a decision he knows will have both enormous economic and political implications.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Administration officials tell CNN the president is all but certain to lift tariffs on foreign-made steel within the next few days. As Mr. Bush visited Michigan, the White House said no final decision has been made, and the president talked about trade only in the most general of ways.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to make sure it's fair. We want the playing field to be level so we can compete in a fair way.
KING: Several sources say top advisers are telling the president that lifting the tariffs is the only way to avoid a bruising trade war that could hurt an economy that is thriving of late. The decision could hurt, however, in several key presidential battlegrounds. Steel-producing Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia are all Bush targets next year and account for 46 electoral votes.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These tariffs were put on to try to hold on to at least a minimal steel industry. And now by taking them off before that consolidation has fully taken place, I think he's endangering the existence of steel altogether.
KING: But Michigan is among the states where lifting the tariffs could help from a political standpoint. This discussion was at Dynamic Metal Treating, which makes parts for the car and oil industries. A small manufacturer that doesn't like the tariffs because they made steel more expensive.
Mr. Bush imposed the tariffs in March 2002 in an effort to help U.S. steel makers ward off intense overseas competition. The World Trade Organization last month ruled the tariff is illegal. The European Union, Japan, South Korea and China all are threatening to retaliate with trade sanctions of their own if the steel tariffs are not lifted. A trade war could hurt U.S. products from other key battleground states, like textiles from the Carolinas and orange juice from Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And barring a last-minute hitch, we're told to expect this decision to lift the tariffs by the end of this week. And Wolf, White House officials are anticipating some political fallout, but they think it will be quite limited, because they say both the U.S. steel industry and the overall U.S. economy are in much better shape now than they were when Mr. Bush imposed these sanctions 20 months ago.
BLITZER: In the face, though, of the retaliatory sanctions, John, how concerned is the White House that the president will be seen as blinking in the face of international pressure from the Europeans, the Japanese, the World Trade Organization?
KING: They certainly know that criticism will come both from some of the steel companies themselves, and certainly from the Democratic candidates for president. The bottom line though, Wolf, is they say much more harm than good would be done if the president stood by these tariffs.
They say the U.S. economy would suffer, and perhaps even the president politically, because several other big states would be impacted. They say this was a very tough call. None of the decisions were good ones. They believe this is the right decision both from an economic and political standpoint. They do understand they're going to have to defend it.
BLITZER: CNN's John King, thanks very much for that.
A town transformed for both coalition forces and residents. We'll take you inside a new danger zone in northern Iraq.
Disney dissent: a resignation and a stinging letter from the company that prides itself on hits wholesome image.
Caught on tape: more on the arrest that turned deadly in Ohio. I'll talk with a key member of Cincinnati's Human Relations Commission.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: U.S. forces say they've captured three suspected al Qaeda members in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Once considered one of the more pacified areas in Iraq, Mosul has been the site in recent weeks of a number of attacks against Americans. As CNN's Jane Arraf reports, U.S. forces there are trying new tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The U.S. Army's view of Mosul is different and deadlier these days.
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. ARMY: We've had enemy here before. Certainly we've had attacks all along. But all of a sudden, the number of attacks in a 24-hour period probably close to doubled, and it stayed high. And so it took a lot of effort to gain the intelligence on these individuals to start to put together the structure of who was out there, who had emerged, reorganized, and who was coming at us.
ARRAF: The 101st Second Brigade has started going to virtually every house in what they consider problem neighborhoods. They don't want to call them searches. They prefer to call it showing a presence.
But even though soldiers knock instead of breaking down doors, for these women home alone it was still frightening. In this house, they apologized and explained why they were searching on this Muslim holiday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been recent attacks that have stemmed from this neighborhood.
ARRAF: In poorer areas, like the one where two soldiers were ambushed Sunday, the soldiers have actually started handing out money, between $5 and $10 to households that don't have illegal weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money is money for all of us. And it was just an attempt to win the hearts versus alienate them.
ARRAF: And they walk the streets, responding to reports. This one a homemade bomb on a busy street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's double wrapped in a black plastic bag.
ARRAF: Mosul is where Saddam's sons were found and killed. Military officials say, for the most part, the attackers still seem to be former Ba'ath Party fighters, helped by common criminals. Although he's critically ill, they believe the organizer is Saddam's right-hand man, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri. They are looking in all kinds of places for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to where he prays, to tea shops where he's going to meet, to lots of outlying villages. Lots of little places that are just stuck out in no-man's land that are very feasible.
ARRAF (on camera): Do you think he's controlling things regionally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think she's got the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He's staying up here.
ARRAF (voice-over): Sooner or later, searching one house at a time, they hope to find him.
Jane Arraf, CNN, Mosul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: More now on that deadly videotaped struggle between Cincinnati Police officers and a nearly 400-pound man the coroner now says had drugs in his system. Joining us by phone to talk about the case is Cecil Thomas. He's the executive director of the Cincinnati Human Relations Commission. He is also a 27-year veteran of the Cincinnati Police Department.
Mr. Thomas, thanks very much for joining us. You have seen the videotape now, as all of us have. What's your take on what happened?
CECIL THOMAS, CINCINNATI HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION: Well, obviously, from viewing the tape, being a former police officer, what I was looking for was proper training, proper techniques. And from the point of the beginning until it was under control, it was clear that the officers did exactly what they were trained to do.
I guess at the time that's where people are concerned and asking questions. But I think (UNINTELLIGIBLE), well, are they using it properly (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? There were no blows to the head. That was very, critical. And proper use (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: And so the way they were hitting him in the torso and the back, all over his body, avoiding the head, that's proper technique as far as police officers are concerned? How is the community, the African-American community reacting to this videotape?
THOMAS: Well, at first, obviously, there was anger simply because there were only clips of the videotape. But since the incident, they've put out the full video itself, and it shows clearly that here's a guy that lunges at the police officers after he's been told to stay back, and then the struggle begins.
So citizens are now waiting to see, what is the coroner's report going to say? What is the toxicology report going to say? In other words, to determine the cause of death.
BLITZER: Were any of the police officers African-American?
THOMAS: I'm sorry, Wolf You broke up on that.
BLITZER: Yes. Were any of the police officers -- we saw one African-American, I believe, among the police officers. Is that right?
THOMAS: Yes, that's correct.
BLITZER: And does that make a difference?
THOMAS: Well, not really, because in this situation the officers were doing -- they were all doing the same thing. They had one agenda, be they black or white, which was to get this guy under control. And the black officer was there. In fact, there was a black supervisor there.
Everybody pretty much saw what because the camera in the car picked up the incident. Now, if there were ever a question of, what did this guy do to cause the police to have to wrestle with him, well there's no question what he did. So everybody saw it.
BLITZER: Cecil Thomas, good luck to you. Good luck to all of the people in Cincinnati. Thanks very much for giving us some perspective.
THOMAS: Thank you.
BLITZER: A new weapon in the fight against colon cancer. It is a deadly killer. We'll tell you about the alternative procedure patients are finding much more tolerable.
Plus, another high-ranking official takes a bow at Disney. We'll examine the problems inside the entertainment empire.
World AIDS Day. We'll show you the latest plan to help millions of people around the world with the virus that causes the disease.
All that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Raid on Ramallah. Israeli forces destroyed a building in Ramallah allegedly used to manufacture explosives. The move was part of an overnight series of raids in the West Bank town aimed, Israel says, against the Hamas infrastructure of terror. The Israeli army says at least three Palestinian gunmen were killed. Palestinians say a 9-year-old boy died.
Peace proposal. At a ceremony in Geneva, Switzerland, 58 current and former world leaders, including former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, offered their support to an unofficial Mideast peace plan. The plan calls for a Palestinian state, including almost all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and part of Jerusalem. It faces strong opposition from the Israeli government and from some Palestinians.
Back from the brink. In the latest sign of normalizing relations, India and Pakistan have agreed to restore air links. Indian airliners will be allowed to resume landings in Pakistan and vice versa effective January 1. One piece at a time. Aviation history went on sale as British Airways auctioned off pieces of a Concorde. The supersonic airliners were retired earlier this year. Everything from the nose cone to the captain's seat was fair game, with the proceeds going to charity.
Third ring circus. It was a wizard day in Wellington, New Zealand, as the third and final movie in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy had its world premiere. A crowd estimated at 100,000 turned out to greet the stars, but the warmest welcome went to director Peter Jackson, a new Zealand native.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Earlier we asked, which U.S. metropolitan area has the highest number of AIDS cases? The answer: New York City, with more than 126,000 cases. The CDC estimates at least 800,000 people in the United States are living with HIV or AIDS.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this is World AIDS Day. And international health agencies marked it by announcing new efforts to fight the disease. Among them, a $5 billion plan to provide the latest drugs to some three million people with HIV.
Forty million worldwide have been infected with the virus that causes AIDS, and 8,000 die every day. In this country, health officials are warning of what they call prevention fatigue, noting that HIV infections were up seven percent in the most recent three- year tracking period.
It's not one of the most pleasant medical procedures, but for many people it can be a lifesaver. Now there is an alternative to the traditional colonoscopy, and new research says it's just as effective and much less invasive. Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, reports.
(REPEAT)
BLITZER: Trouble in Disneyland. Two board members walk away from the entertainment empire, but not before calling on CEO Michael Eisner to step down. We'll examine the issues.
First, though, some stories you may have missed this past weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Ready for action. The USS Cole left Norfolk, Virginia on its first overseas deployment since it was bombed in Yemen three years ago. The destroyer and its 340 crew members are bound for a six-month tour in the Mediterranean Sea.
Sick at sea. There was another report of shipboard illness. Dozens of passengers and several crew members came down with a stomach illness during a Caribbean cruise aboard Carnival's Legend. At least 25 outbreaks of illness were reported on cruise ships last winter and fall.
Run from the hills. A landslide destroyed a home in the Hollywood Hills section of Los Angeles. About 3,000 cubic feet of dirt and debris knocked the house off its foundation, but the owner managed to escape without injury.
Concert for a cause. Forty thousand people packed this South African stadium as some of the world's top entertainers performed to raise money for the fight against AIDS. Bono, the Corrs and Beyonce Knowles were among the performers at the event, which also featured an appearance by former South African President Nelson Mandela.
Thankful travelers. Despite pre-holiday warnings about long lines at airport security checkpoints, most Thanksgiving travelers got on their planes with little delay. Officials had canceled leave for screeners and hired part-time help to assist with the holiday crowds.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Simmering anger is boiling over in the house that the mouse built. Walt Disney's nephew, retiring from the company's board of directors, left with a scathing critique of CEO Michael Eisner. CNN's Jen Rogers is in Los Angeles with details now of this most unusual public corporate clash.
Jen, tell us all about it.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Wolf. You know, it has been a war of words today between the two camps in this boardroom drama.
Here is the deal. It is no secret that Disney chief Michael Eisner and Roy Disney, the last Disney to be actively involved with the company and on the company's board, have been feuding for some time. But today is obviously a new low point in their relationship.
Now, over the weekend, Mr. Disney's letter was followed up with another (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of today. This one from Mr. Disney's closest ally on the board, Stanley Gold, who also announced his resignation.
Now, these were not, you know, form resignation letters. Just to give you an idea of how sharp the criticisms leveled at Mr. Eisner were, these are just some sentences from the letter from Roy Disney talking about Mr. Eisner, saying that "After 19 years at the helm, you are no longer the best person to run the Walt Disney Company." He went on to say "The company has lost its focus, its creative energy and its heritage." And finally, he said, "You should be leaving and not me."
As for any change in Mr. Eisner's status as CEO, the board says that previous moves and criticisms have gone without any change -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jen Rogers with that. Thanks, Jen, very much.
Our hot Web Question of the Day, that's coming up. Who is behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency? Vote right now: cnn.com/wolf. The results when we come back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web Question of the Day. We've been asking you this question: Who's behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency?
Look at this. Fifty-seven percent of you say Saddam Hussein, 43 percent of you say foreign fighters. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder. We're here every day Monday through Friday 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also noon Eastern. See you tomorrow. Until then, thanks very much for watching.
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
in Samarra; Interview With Robert Baer>
Aired December 1, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening right now, new information emerging about this shocking videotape. What provoked the police to beat this man. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Shootout in Samarra. The bloodiest battle in months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had incoming and direct fire from mortars. We also had RPGs coming through here. Just hitting us all around.
BLITZER: Who's behind the attacks in Iraq? I'll ask former CIA officer Robert Baer.
Bending on steel. Will President Bush blink in the face of threats from Europe and Asia?
Died in custody. A 400-pound man and six police officers. Was there another way?
Virtual lifesaver. A 3-D difference in the fight against cancer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Monday, December 1, 2003.
BLITZER: It was no ordinary hit and run strike against a soft target. The United States military says dozens of insurgents launched simultaneous attacks on convoys, carrying currency for local banks. Those convoys were guarded by U.S. tanks and armored personnel carriers. And according to the United States military, the guerrillas took a beating, with the death toll running into the dozens. But what is the whole story? CNN's Nic Robertson reports from the town of Samarra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These were 762 mm, AK round went through the door.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shot up, banged up Humvees entered the ferocity of the battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then to the other side...
ROBERTSON: Soldiers provide testimony.
STAFF SGT. BRUCE JONES, U.S. ARMY: There I am in the middle of a huge firefight with bullets and mortars and RPGs falling all around me.
ROBERTSON: Commanders, the details.
COL. FREDERICK RUDESHEIM, U.S. ARMY: We can have multiple attacks both at the banks, because that was a given location that they knew we'd go to, and the routes that we most likely would use going in and out.
ROBERTSON: Repairs now under way from what coalition officials describe as the largest engagement since the end of major combat.
(on camera): Forty-six Iraqis killed, 18 wounds, and 11 taken prisoner, according to officers here. Intelligence officials say among those may have been members of Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen. They also acknowledge that in the ferocity of such a firefight, there may have been civilian casualties.
(voice-over): In Samarra, Tariq Azar (ph) angrily points to his shot up living room. "Look at what the U.S. troops have done," he says. Asked about the gun clip on his floor, he shows it's empty. "No one was firing from here," he insists.
His friend adding, "the resistance had been told to stand down."
But in apparent contradiction, another man in the crowded room adds, "my invalid brother was killed in the crossfire."
In the hospital where the wounded are still being treated, anger seems strongest, particularly from the mother of this man. "They burned his car and hit him," she is says. "Where is the freedom Bush promised?"
Those in this ward claiming they were leaving work when they were shot.
This Iraqi police major has been examining the lists of wounded and dead, 50 injured.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of all the injured brought to the hospital, we haven't seen any in black uniforms belonging to the Saddam Fedayeen."
ROBERTSON: He also contradicts the coalition again, saying only eight people died, among them an elderly Iranian man.
Away from our camera and crowds, an Iraqi told us what he described as resistance fighters had been preparing for an attack.
One man being taken away for treatment showed he had some fight left in him. Nic Robertson, CNN, Samarra, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Was the Samarra attack just a bank job gone bad, or does it represent a bold new tactic of meeting U.S. troops head-on? The battle is raising many important questions. Let's go live to CNN's Walter Rodgers in Baghdad.
What does this incident in Samarra tell us about the tactics of the insurgents, Walter?
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it suggests the U.S. Army was wrong in its estimation and forecast about the tactics that the Iraqi insurgents would be using. Within the last week, they were saying that the American military had been so successful in confronting the insurgents that the Iraqis were switching to so-called soft targets. Indeed just an hour before this incident happened, that very same statement was being made by a top U.S. general here in Baghdad. And what the Iraqis did was resort to a tactic that they used very successfully against U.S. forces during the war, that is a rather well organized ambush. And the Iraqis went back to their old tactic of attacking U.S. forces and attacking them with considerable courage and strength -- Wolf.
BLITZER: What does it also suggest, Walter, about the nature of U.S. intelligence? Some military experts here in Washington suggesting the U.S. coalition forces are getting better on the ground intelligence right now that in weeks and months past. Is that what you're hearing?
RODGERS: Well, I can tell you on this specific incident in Samarra, the U.S. forces had been in that town during this money exchange, bringing bank notes into the town four times in the last three or four weeks. Every time U.S. forces went into Samarra, they took small arms fire. So this time when the U.S. Army went in, they went in with eight tanks, those are eight main battle tanks. That's heavy weaponry. Plus four Bradley fighting vehicles.
And so the U.S. was not surprised. Indeed, they rather anticipated, even if they didn't know there was going to be a specific ambush, by the way some soldiers began to smell it when they didn't see people on the streets. But the Army was well prepared for this, and again, all you have to do is look at the score, upwards of 46, maybe 54 Iraqis killed, only five Americans injured. And four of those Americans are back in their units tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Walter Rodgers with the latest from Baghdad. Thank you very much, Walter.
While U.S. troops are under attack on a daily basis, they are also pressing forward with a hunt for al Qaeda and its commanders. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is traveling with the key American commander in the war on terror. She brings us this exclusive report from Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At remote bases in eastern Afghanistan reachable only by helicopter rides through steep mountain valleys, General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, visits troops on the front lines of the war on terror. He spoke in detail about the current threat posed by Osama bin Laden and worrisome signs of al Qaeda activity in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We see their hallmark in places like Istanbul. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't prove to have some connection to al Qaeda. Again, it's my speculation based upon their method of operation, not based upon any specific intelligence that I've seen. And it's also based on the type of operation that we saw in Nasiriya against the Italians. It has the hallmark of al Qaeda as well.
STARR: U.S. Special Forces in these mountains urgently press the hunt because of what bin Laden and his top aide, Ayman al-Zawahiri, still might be able to do.
ABIZAID: Their ability to order day-to-day operations is very low. Their ability to order a large attack in a specific period at a specific place, which would be a strategic type of an attack, I think is still viable. And both Osama bin Laden and Zawahiri, in my mind, are somewhere in this vicinity.
STARR: There is confidence that bin Laden's ability to direct and organize al Qaeda's operations has been seriously impaired. But for Abizaid, no complacency.
ABIZAID: His ability to order tactical, day-to-day activity is almost nil. He doesn't have a command and control network that would allow him to reach out to troops on the ground and say, go to this place and do this action. Nor does he really have what we would call an operational capability.
For example, have a group of fighters come together in the near term to conduct an operation. But a longer, deeper strategic operation, he could through the use of couriers and other means bring something like that together.
STARR: U.S. intelligence continues to believe that bin Laden is hiding out somewhere along Afghanistan's border with Pakistan, and that someday, someone will offer the one crucial tip that will lead to his capture or death.
Barbara Starr, CNN, eastern Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Turkey's government now says last month's devastating suicide bombings are, in fact, apparently, linked to al Qaeda. Dozens were killed and hundreds wounded in the attacks on two synagogues, a British bank and the British consulate in Istanbul. After a cabinet meeting today, Turkey's deputy prime minister said the latest information points directly to the terror network. He said 21 people have been charged in connection with the bombings.
Who's behind the attacks in Iraq? Have local insurgents formed an alliance with al Qaeda? Are they a step ahead of U.S. intelligence?
All good questions. Joining us now, the author Robert Baer. He spent two decades in the CIA, much of that time on the ground in the Middle East, including Iraq. Bob, thanks very much for joining us. Good questions.
First of all, do you believe al Qaeda is related to these attacks, or are these Fedayeen local Iraqis, still loyal to Saddam Hussein?
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OFFICER: I think we're seeing both. The suicide attacks are being carried out by al Qaeda or groups associated with al Qaeda. Whether they're coming from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran. And I think what we're seeing is organized armed forces on the ground operating almost independently but also coordinated. This attack on Samarra, what it tells me is they're drawing U.S. troops into the city. So they have to respond and take civilian casualties or cause civilian casualties, in order for the United States to lose support.
BLITZER: In other words, they wanted to lose 46 or 50 of their own insurgents...
BAER: I'm not...
BLITZER: ... assuming some were civilians, which could generate popular opposition?
BAER: Exactly. They want to cause as much destruction in urban areas as possible. It is a classic guerrilla tactic, used by Mao Zedong. And unless we control this, it could get worse.
BLITZER: Well, what happens -- so tomorrow, this convoy of the Bradley fighting vehicles, the Abrams battle tanks moving in to bring currency to a bank that needs that currency. Was that a factor, potentially, by the way, in this incident, the insurgents wanting the money after all? They probably could use some of that cash.
BAER: I don't think so. I think it's more a question is they want to show their capability of attacking an armored unit like this, of A tanks. That they are capable of doing -- organizing, putting the people on the ground, hitting them with RPGs, small arms, backing away, forcing the Americans to respond, killing some of them, but also...
BLITZER: But these grenades, these RPGs, the kind of weapons they have would have no impact on a Bradley fighting vehicle or Abrams battle tank?
BAER: It is symbolic. It is symbolic. And they want to show that they can carry out these attacks at will.
BLITZER: Based on what you know right now, is U.S. intelligence on the ground, battle intelligence, getting better?
BAER: Some of it is. But the problem is the Sunni triangle, where these people are truly hostile to the United States. It's very unlikely anybody is going to cooperate with U.S. intelligence at this point. Even if they wanted to, they're afraid of reprisals.
BLITZER: What are they, afraid the United States is going to cut and run and those who collaborate or cooperate with the U.S. and coalition...
BAER: Exactly.
BLITZER: ... are going to be toast?
BAER: They'll be toast by next summer if we leave.
BLITZER: In other words, that's why -- that's why the intelligence is not getting better, people are not coming out to help the United States and its coalition partners?
BAER: They're afraid to. I mean, there is almost a civil war going on in the Sunni community. Right now, in Ramadi, there are people that support the United States that are dying every day.
BLITZER: What do you make of the power of the Ayatollah Ali Al- Sistani, the Shiite leader in the south? He seems to be a powerful figure right now, perhaps emerging as the most powerful figure in Iraq?
BAER: What he's saying is, listen, we are 60 percent of the population. We want one man, one vote. And if we get this, this is going to be a Shia republic. And that's going to be our stand. And this is what's worrying coalition authorities.
BLITZER: In other words, they are trying to get a democratically elected Islamic, fundamentalist, ayatollah-led regime, is that what you're saying?
BAER: Which keeps in mind that it further disenfranchises the Sunni Arabs, which are 20 percent of the population. They said, listen, we are not going to turn over power willingly to the Shia Muslims.
BLITZER: Bob Baer, as usual, thanks very much.
BAER: Thanks.
BLITZER: Here is your turn to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this, who is behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency? Saddam Hussein? Foreign fighters? You can vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast. While you're there, I would love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Send me your comments anytime. I will try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column. Cnn.com/wolf. Controversy in Cincinnati.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers were also taken down to CIS, and they were treated as criminals. The officers are treated as criminals. They're read their rights. What in that video, what did these officers do wrong?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A man takes on six police officers. Who's responsible for the deadly outcome?
Buckling under pressure. The White House apparently ready to change policy on steel imports.
And thousands killed every day. A worldwide disease with no signs of containment. And this is fact, not movie fiction.
But today, first, our "News Quiz."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER (voice-over): Which U.S. metropolitan area has the highest number of AIDS cases? Miami, New York City, San Francisco, Washington, D.C.? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: African-American activists in Cincinnati are calling for the city's police chief to step down. They're angry over the latest violent encounter between a black man and police, this one with a deadly ending.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back!
BLITZER (voice-over): This is the tape investigators are poring over as they try to piece together the last moments of Nathaniel Jones' life. It is the culmination of a chain of events that started with a 911 call just between dawn Sunday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: The 41-year-old Jones, seen here in a mugshot from a previous arrest, was found unconscious outside a fast food restaurant. An emergency crew responded, and reported a short time later that Jones was awake and becoming a nuisance. Police were dispatched to the scene, and there was a struggle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up! Back up, back up!
BLITZER: Officers say the 400-pound Jones lunged at them, ignoring their orders and resisting efforts to handcuff him. The tape shows police repeatedly striking Jones with their batons. Jones was finally subdued and taken by ambulance to a hospital, where he died within minutes. The cause of death and of his violent behavior are still a mystery.
CALVERT SMITH, NAACP CINCINNATI CHAPTER PRESIDENT: We are not trying to say this this gentleman was innocent. I don't know what the circumstances were, but I have seen the film, and the kind of beating that I observed would raise questions in anyone's mind.
BLITZER: Especially in Cincinnati, where the fatal shooting of a black suspect by white officers sparked three days of rioting in 2001. Similar incidents since then have raised tension between police and the black community. The officers in this case are on administrative leave pending investigation.
Cincinnati's mayor says their actions were appropriate.
MAYOR CHARLIE LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: They controlled the situation, and even after they started trying to get the man down and telling him what to do, you can see him continue to wail and struggle and grab the nightstick. And the police officers have a legitimate interest in making absolutely certain that they protected their own lives and their own safety.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Late this afternoon the Hamilton County coroner said Jones had an enlarged heart and traces of cocaine and angel dust in his system. The coroner says a full report on the cause of death will be issued after tests on the remains are completed.
For more now, we're joined by CNN's Mike Brooks. He's at the CNN Center in Atlanta. He's a former law enforcement official who can tell us more about what we're seeing on that videotape.
First of all, Mike, the fact that the coroner now suggesting traces of cocaine and angel dust. What, if anything, might -- what impact that could have on the whole incident?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It could have a huge impact, Wolf. Both cocaine and angel dust, which is the street name for PCP fencyclodine (ph), they're both central nervous stimulants and have been associated with violent and bizarre behavior. And I can tell you, Wolf, back when I was in law enforcement in D.C. for 26 years, back in the late '70s and early '80s, we saw a lot of people who were high on PCP. And when you go to arrest these people, they just have some super human strength, and their tolerance to pain is extremely high. And they won't do what you tell them to do.
So whether this played a major role in this particular incident or not remains to be seen.
Also I wanted to say, Wolf, that in the autopsy report, the doctors said that there was no evidence of transmission of force to internal organs. So, again, that's just part of the autopsy. This is a preliminary. They have not issued a final cause of death as of yet -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Was this videotape that we're showing our viewers, Mike, taken from a dashboard from one of the police cars on the scene?
BROOKS: Yes, it was, it was from the onboard camera. We've seen this a number of times now in some of the other television shows. But again, it shows exactly what happened when he first got on the scene. We saw the -- Mr. Jones, as the officers were telling him to get back, to get back, as they were approaching him, he lunged at them, striking one of the officers, it was visible, with his forearm in the head. Right then, you have an assault on a police officer, so again, they could not let this just go and let him go about his way. And as we saw, very, very violent confrontation.
And it doesn't look good. I mean, the layperson looking at this, Wolf, who has never been involved in any kind of confrontation, to look at this and without knowing and having been in any confrontation like this, they would say, you know, this is horrible. But again, not a rush to judgment. We have now the preliminary results of the coroner's report. And there's still more investigation to be done on this particular case.
BLITZER: And very briefly, Mike, you have seen the whole videotape from start to end. We have not seen the whole thing. But when you see the whole thing in context, the bottom line from your professional standpoint?
BROOKS: Well, the bottom line is, Wolf, having been in situations like this and now knowing that he was -- he was -- had PCP and cocaine onboard in his system, the bottom line is, these officers were lucky to get out with no injuries.
Again, the force that they used doesn't look good to the layperson, but using a bat, especially on someone who is 350 pounds, and you saw him grab the baton from one of the officers. The officers had two hands, he had one. It was a very, very violent confrontation. And unfortunately, Mr. Jones did die, apparently as a result of a medical condition. But again, we have to wait for the final autopsy results to come back from a coroner before a complete judgment is made in this incident.
BLITZER: With those drugs in his system and an enlarged heart, we don't know what the impact, but we'll get that official coroner's report. That's coming up.
Thanks very much, Mike Brooks, for that. And to our viewers, this important note. In just a few minutes, I will be speaking live with an important community leader in Cincinnati about the story of Nathaniel Jones and his death. That's coming up.
Meanwhile, a reward in a deadly highway shooting. That story tops our "Justice Report." Businesses in the Columbus, Ohio area are now offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the person who shot a 62-year-old woman last Tuesday. It's the only fatality in a series of 11 shootings at cars driving along Interstate 270. Investigators have matched shells in two of those incidents. And jury selection had begun in the manslaughter trial of South Dakota Congressman Bill Janklow. The former four-term governor is charged with a death of a motorcyclist in a traffic accident in August. If convicted, Janklow could get up to a 10-year sentence.
Tough position and little room for choice. Facing international pressure, the president plans a move on steel imports that could affect you and your wallet.
Catching a deadly killer before it strikes. New technology in the fight against colon cancer.
Attempts to spy, but on whom? A new twist in the Michael Jackson case. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Showing a strong presence. The United States military stepping up searches in a deadly and very dangerous area. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: On a swing through America's industrial heartland, President Bush faces a politically heart-rending decision, bow to world pressure and lift tariffs on imported steel, or anger steel- making states in an election year? Let's go live to our senior White House correspondent John King. He's following this story -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, we're told no decision from the White House today. But quite soon we are told the president is now poised to make a decision he knows will have both enormous economic and political implications.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Administration officials tell CNN the president is all but certain to lift tariffs on foreign-made steel within the next few days. As Mr. Bush visited Michigan, the White House said no final decision has been made, and the president talked about trade only in the most general of ways.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to make sure it's fair. We want the playing field to be level so we can compete in a fair way.
KING: Several sources say top advisers are telling the president that lifting the tariffs is the only way to avoid a bruising trade war that could hurt an economy that is thriving of late. The decision could hurt, however, in several key presidential battlegrounds. Steel-producing Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia are all Bush targets next year and account for 46 electoral votes.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These tariffs were put on to try to hold on to at least a minimal steel industry. And now by taking them off before that consolidation has fully taken place, I think he's endangering the existence of steel altogether.
KING: But Michigan is among the states where lifting the tariffs could help from a political standpoint. This discussion was at Dynamic Metal Treating, which makes parts for the car and oil industries. A small manufacturer that doesn't like the tariffs because they made steel more expensive.
Mr. Bush imposed the tariffs in March 2002 in an effort to help U.S. steel makers ward off intense overseas competition. The World Trade Organization last month ruled the tariff is illegal. The European Union, Japan, South Korea and China all are threatening to retaliate with trade sanctions of their own if the steel tariffs are not lifted. A trade war could hurt U.S. products from other key battleground states, like textiles from the Carolinas and orange juice from Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And barring a last-minute hitch, we're told to expect this decision to lift the tariffs by the end of this week. And Wolf, White House officials are anticipating some political fallout, but they think it will be quite limited, because they say both the U.S. steel industry and the overall U.S. economy are in much better shape now than they were when Mr. Bush imposed these sanctions 20 months ago.
BLITZER: In the face, though, of the retaliatory sanctions, John, how concerned is the White House that the president will be seen as blinking in the face of international pressure from the Europeans, the Japanese, the World Trade Organization?
KING: They certainly know that criticism will come both from some of the steel companies themselves, and certainly from the Democratic candidates for president. The bottom line though, Wolf, is they say much more harm than good would be done if the president stood by these tariffs.
They say the U.S. economy would suffer, and perhaps even the president politically, because several other big states would be impacted. They say this was a very tough call. None of the decisions were good ones. They believe this is the right decision both from an economic and political standpoint. They do understand they're going to have to defend it.
BLITZER: CNN's John King, thanks very much for that.
A town transformed for both coalition forces and residents. We'll take you inside a new danger zone in northern Iraq.
Disney dissent: a resignation and a stinging letter from the company that prides itself on hits wholesome image.
Caught on tape: more on the arrest that turned deadly in Ohio. I'll talk with a key member of Cincinnati's Human Relations Commission.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: U.S. forces say they've captured three suspected al Qaeda members in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Once considered one of the more pacified areas in Iraq, Mosul has been the site in recent weeks of a number of attacks against Americans. As CNN's Jane Arraf reports, U.S. forces there are trying new tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The U.S. Army's view of Mosul is different and deadlier these days.
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. ARMY: We've had enemy here before. Certainly we've had attacks all along. But all of a sudden, the number of attacks in a 24-hour period probably close to doubled, and it stayed high. And so it took a lot of effort to gain the intelligence on these individuals to start to put together the structure of who was out there, who had emerged, reorganized, and who was coming at us.
ARRAF: The 101st Second Brigade has started going to virtually every house in what they consider problem neighborhoods. They don't want to call them searches. They prefer to call it showing a presence.
But even though soldiers knock instead of breaking down doors, for these women home alone it was still frightening. In this house, they apologized and explained why they were searching on this Muslim holiday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been recent attacks that have stemmed from this neighborhood.
ARRAF: In poorer areas, like the one where two soldiers were ambushed Sunday, the soldiers have actually started handing out money, between $5 and $10 to households that don't have illegal weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Money is money for all of us. And it was just an attempt to win the hearts versus alienate them.
ARRAF: And they walk the streets, responding to reports. This one a homemade bomb on a busy street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's double wrapped in a black plastic bag.
ARRAF: Mosul is where Saddam's sons were found and killed. Military officials say, for the most part, the attackers still seem to be former Ba'ath Party fighters, helped by common criminals. Although he's critically ill, they believe the organizer is Saddam's right-hand man, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri. They are looking in all kinds of places for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to where he prays, to tea shops where he's going to meet, to lots of outlying villages. Lots of little places that are just stuck out in no-man's land that are very feasible.
ARRAF (on camera): Do you think he's controlling things regionally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think she's got the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He's staying up here.
ARRAF (voice-over): Sooner or later, searching one house at a time, they hope to find him.
Jane Arraf, CNN, Mosul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: More now on that deadly videotaped struggle between Cincinnati Police officers and a nearly 400-pound man the coroner now says had drugs in his system. Joining us by phone to talk about the case is Cecil Thomas. He's the executive director of the Cincinnati Human Relations Commission. He is also a 27-year veteran of the Cincinnati Police Department.
Mr. Thomas, thanks very much for joining us. You have seen the videotape now, as all of us have. What's your take on what happened?
CECIL THOMAS, CINCINNATI HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION: Well, obviously, from viewing the tape, being a former police officer, what I was looking for was proper training, proper techniques. And from the point of the beginning until it was under control, it was clear that the officers did exactly what they were trained to do.
I guess at the time that's where people are concerned and asking questions. But I think (UNINTELLIGIBLE), well, are they using it properly (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? There were no blows to the head. That was very, critical. And proper use (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BLITZER: And so the way they were hitting him in the torso and the back, all over his body, avoiding the head, that's proper technique as far as police officers are concerned? How is the community, the African-American community reacting to this videotape?
THOMAS: Well, at first, obviously, there was anger simply because there were only clips of the videotape. But since the incident, they've put out the full video itself, and it shows clearly that here's a guy that lunges at the police officers after he's been told to stay back, and then the struggle begins.
So citizens are now waiting to see, what is the coroner's report going to say? What is the toxicology report going to say? In other words, to determine the cause of death.
BLITZER: Were any of the police officers African-American?
THOMAS: I'm sorry, Wolf You broke up on that.
BLITZER: Yes. Were any of the police officers -- we saw one African-American, I believe, among the police officers. Is that right?
THOMAS: Yes, that's correct.
BLITZER: And does that make a difference?
THOMAS: Well, not really, because in this situation the officers were doing -- they were all doing the same thing. They had one agenda, be they black or white, which was to get this guy under control. And the black officer was there. In fact, there was a black supervisor there.
Everybody pretty much saw what because the camera in the car picked up the incident. Now, if there were ever a question of, what did this guy do to cause the police to have to wrestle with him, well there's no question what he did. So everybody saw it.
BLITZER: Cecil Thomas, good luck to you. Good luck to all of the people in Cincinnati. Thanks very much for giving us some perspective.
THOMAS: Thank you.
BLITZER: A new weapon in the fight against colon cancer. It is a deadly killer. We'll tell you about the alternative procedure patients are finding much more tolerable.
Plus, another high-ranking official takes a bow at Disney. We'll examine the problems inside the entertainment empire.
World AIDS Day. We'll show you the latest plan to help millions of people around the world with the virus that causes the disease.
All that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Raid on Ramallah. Israeli forces destroyed a building in Ramallah allegedly used to manufacture explosives. The move was part of an overnight series of raids in the West Bank town aimed, Israel says, against the Hamas infrastructure of terror. The Israeli army says at least three Palestinian gunmen were killed. Palestinians say a 9-year-old boy died.
Peace proposal. At a ceremony in Geneva, Switzerland, 58 current and former world leaders, including former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, offered their support to an unofficial Mideast peace plan. The plan calls for a Palestinian state, including almost all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and part of Jerusalem. It faces strong opposition from the Israeli government and from some Palestinians.
Back from the brink. In the latest sign of normalizing relations, India and Pakistan have agreed to restore air links. Indian airliners will be allowed to resume landings in Pakistan and vice versa effective January 1. One piece at a time. Aviation history went on sale as British Airways auctioned off pieces of a Concorde. The supersonic airliners were retired earlier this year. Everything from the nose cone to the captain's seat was fair game, with the proceeds going to charity.
Third ring circus. It was a wizard day in Wellington, New Zealand, as the third and final movie in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy had its world premiere. A crowd estimated at 100,000 turned out to greet the stars, but the warmest welcome went to director Peter Jackson, a new Zealand native.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Earlier we asked, which U.S. metropolitan area has the highest number of AIDS cases? The answer: New York City, with more than 126,000 cases. The CDC estimates at least 800,000 people in the United States are living with HIV or AIDS.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this is World AIDS Day. And international health agencies marked it by announcing new efforts to fight the disease. Among them, a $5 billion plan to provide the latest drugs to some three million people with HIV.
Forty million worldwide have been infected with the virus that causes AIDS, and 8,000 die every day. In this country, health officials are warning of what they call prevention fatigue, noting that HIV infections were up seven percent in the most recent three- year tracking period.
It's not one of the most pleasant medical procedures, but for many people it can be a lifesaver. Now there is an alternative to the traditional colonoscopy, and new research says it's just as effective and much less invasive. Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, reports.
(REPEAT)
BLITZER: Trouble in Disneyland. Two board members walk away from the entertainment empire, but not before calling on CEO Michael Eisner to step down. We'll examine the issues.
First, though, some stories you may have missed this past weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Ready for action. The USS Cole left Norfolk, Virginia on its first overseas deployment since it was bombed in Yemen three years ago. The destroyer and its 340 crew members are bound for a six-month tour in the Mediterranean Sea.
Sick at sea. There was another report of shipboard illness. Dozens of passengers and several crew members came down with a stomach illness during a Caribbean cruise aboard Carnival's Legend. At least 25 outbreaks of illness were reported on cruise ships last winter and fall.
Run from the hills. A landslide destroyed a home in the Hollywood Hills section of Los Angeles. About 3,000 cubic feet of dirt and debris knocked the house off its foundation, but the owner managed to escape without injury.
Concert for a cause. Forty thousand people packed this South African stadium as some of the world's top entertainers performed to raise money for the fight against AIDS. Bono, the Corrs and Beyonce Knowles were among the performers at the event, which also featured an appearance by former South African President Nelson Mandela.
Thankful travelers. Despite pre-holiday warnings about long lines at airport security checkpoints, most Thanksgiving travelers got on their planes with little delay. Officials had canceled leave for screeners and hired part-time help to assist with the holiday crowds.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Simmering anger is boiling over in the house that the mouse built. Walt Disney's nephew, retiring from the company's board of directors, left with a scathing critique of CEO Michael Eisner. CNN's Jen Rogers is in Los Angeles with details now of this most unusual public corporate clash.
Jen, tell us all about it.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Wolf. You know, it has been a war of words today between the two camps in this boardroom drama.
Here is the deal. It is no secret that Disney chief Michael Eisner and Roy Disney, the last Disney to be actively involved with the company and on the company's board, have been feuding for some time. But today is obviously a new low point in their relationship.
Now, over the weekend, Mr. Disney's letter was followed up with another (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of today. This one from Mr. Disney's closest ally on the board, Stanley Gold, who also announced his resignation.
Now, these were not, you know, form resignation letters. Just to give you an idea of how sharp the criticisms leveled at Mr. Eisner were, these are just some sentences from the letter from Roy Disney talking about Mr. Eisner, saying that "After 19 years at the helm, you are no longer the best person to run the Walt Disney Company." He went on to say "The company has lost its focus, its creative energy and its heritage." And finally, he said, "You should be leaving and not me."
As for any change in Mr. Eisner's status as CEO, the board says that previous moves and criticisms have gone without any change -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jen Rogers with that. Thanks, Jen, very much.
Our hot Web Question of the Day, that's coming up. Who is behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency? Vote right now: cnn.com/wolf. The results when we come back
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web Question of the Day. We've been asking you this question: Who's behind this weekend's attacks on coalition convoys carrying new Iraqi currency?
Look at this. Fifty-seven percent of you say Saddam Hussein, 43 percent of you say foreign fighters. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder. We're here every day Monday through Friday 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also noon Eastern. See you tomorrow. Until then, thanks very much for watching.
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
in Samarra; Interview With Robert Baer>
