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Lou Dobbs Tonight
United States Calls on NATO to Take Over in Afghanistan; Interview With Commerce Secretary Don Evans
Aired December 04, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
Tonight: The United States is calling upon NATO to take over combat operations in Afghanistan. Both Secretary of State Colin Powell and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are asking NATO to take over the fight against remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. NATO already has almost 6,000 troops deployed there, but nearly all of them are assigned to peacekeeping operations in and near Kabul.
The withdrawal of American combat forces from Afghanistan would enable the Pentagon focus on the much larger and, to this point, more difficult mission in Iraq.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports on these developments, which amount to an Afghanistan exit strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Afghanistan, NATO has taken responsibility for providing security in Kabul. And German troops have begun to move into the northern town of Kunduz, as NATO expands the 5,700-strong International Security Assistance Force outside the Afghan capital.
It's a mission with historic implications, as noted by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld as he met with President Karzai in Kabul Thursday.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Never in the 50-year history of that organization have they ever been involved in anything outside of the NATO treaty area. And this, their first activity of this type, is important for them. I understand that it's important for Afghanistan as well.
MCINTYRE: After some foot-dragging, NATO nations are coming through with more troops and equipment for the expanded mission in Afghanistan. Both Turkey and the Netherlands are providing more critically needed helicopters.
But the U.S. would like to see more NATO help in Iraq as well, which, for now, is limited to logistical support for the Polish-led division that is keeping peace in central Iraq. At NATO headquarters in Brussels, Secretary of State Colin Powell made the case or a wider NATO role in Iraq and took heart that no one refused outright.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: As we discussed about the possibility of NATO taking an enhanced role in Iraq, taking a new kind of role in Iraq, not a single member spoke against it or talked about reasons not to do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: But the lack of outright opposition doesn't translate into support for direct NATO involvement in Iraq, at least not yet. NATO already believes it has its hands full in Afghanistan.
Today, Lord Robertson, the NATO secretary-general, said that NATO was preoccupied with getting things right in Afghanistan and would be making no decision about Iraq any time soon. Also, the U.S. will continue its hunt for the Taliban remnants in Afghanistan for now, as NATO's role will be limited to providing security in other areas of the country -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, Jamie, at this point, is it clear that the troops now deployed in Afghanistan would indeed be deployed to Iraq, should NATO comply with the request of both Secretary Rumsfeld and Colin Powell?
MCINTYRE: Well, they haven't requested directly for the NATO troops to take over that hunt for Taliban remnants.
But, once the U.S. believes that there's enough security in Afghanistan, they could shift those troops. But there's no prospect of that happening any time soon, certainly while bin Laden remains at large.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, thank you.
While Germany is already helping the United States in Afghanistan, it seems less inclined to support U.S. foreign policy in Asia, in particular, toward China. In a remarkable case of bad timing, not to mention poor diplomacy, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder this week called for a resumption of weapons sales to the Chinese military. It would seem, the German chancellor failed to notice that China is threatening to go to war against Taiwan if its leaders move toward independence.
During the summer, France also called for the lifting of the arms embargo on China.
The United States has a huge military advantage over any potential enemy, in part because of an extensive network of spy satellites that provide real-time intelligence. But the program to develop a new generation of reconnaissance satellites is vastly over budget and years behind schedule.
National security correspondent David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As U.S. intelligence showed off at a recent trade fair, America's spy satellites were critical in Iraq and Afghanistan. Keeping and improving the strategic advantage they provide could be crucial.
But critics, including the Pentagon's own Defense Science Board, warned that the program to field the next generation of satellites is behind schedule, over budget and, as the board said, bluntly -- quote -- "not executable."
STEVEN AFTERGOOD, FEDERATION OF AMERICAN SCIENTISTS: Not executable is a fancy way of saying, it won't work. And, of course, that's a serious problem.
ENSOR: A serious problem noted last year by the Defense Science Board. But officials from Boeing, the contractor building the next generation of satellites, say the problem has been solved since then by pushing back deadlines, lowering some capability requirements, and shifting what is reportedly another $4 billion taxpayer from other government programs.
KEITH HALL, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL RECONNAISSANCE OFFICE: I don't think there's much of a risk of the nation going blind.
ENSOR: Critics charge, Boeing got the job in the '90s by convincing government officials that it could do the impossible.
LOREN THOMPSON:, LEXINGTON INSTITUTE: Maybe the biggest mistake that the government made when it signed on for this new satellite system is that it believed too much from the contractors, in terms of what could be done. It basically rejected a conservative bid and went with a radical one. And now we're finding out it can't be done on time or on cost, and maybe it can't be done at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: A National Reconnaissance Office spokesman says, at a minimum, the last criticism is out of date, that the next generation of spy satellites is now back on schedule at Boeing, with the first set to be launch around the middle of the decade -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, David Ensor, our national security correspondent.
Spy satellites already in orbit have given a new task -- been given a new task, to check the International Space Station for any signs of damage. The satellites are looking for possible exterior damage, after the two-man crew aboard Station Alpha heard a loud noise last week. The astronauts say there has been no change in air pressure in the space station and that all the systems are working normally. But, learning from the Columbia shuttle disaster, NASA says it's take no chances.
President Bush is preparing to announce a radical new vision for the American space program. The president is talking about a series of initiatives that could include new manned space missions and even a permanent base on the moon.
Senior White House correspondent John King has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president is on the verge of calling for a return to the moon, as part of a dramatic new mission for the space program.
And sources say other ideas on the table include a permanent presence on the moon and even a manned mission to Mars. Aides say Mr. Bush wants to set bold new goals in space, but has not made key decisions.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are no plans for any policy announcements in the immediate future.
KING: After the Columbia disaster 10 months ago, the president quickly committed to resuming shuttle flights. NASA's latest target is early 2005.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mankind has led into the darkness beyond our world by the inspiration of discovery and the longing to understand. Our journey into space will go on.
KING: The administration review includes setting a target for retiring the shuttle fleet, a plan to phase out the International Space Station, picking a new space vehicle for manned flights, debating the costs and benefits of a permanent moon base, and developing a proposal for a mission to Mars.
NASA is urgently debating and refining proposals. And Vice President Cheney is consulting key members of Congress.
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Great countries need to have visions to pull them on forward.
KING: The last moon flight was 31 years ago, December 1972. Sources tell CNN, NASA's target for returning to the moon is about 15 years from now.
BROWNBACK: You've got the Chinese now going into space and saying that they're interested in going to the moon. We don't want them really to beat us to the moon. And, instead, we'd rather be there and be able to develop the resources, the areas, the sweet spots for observation.
KING: But NASA's target of a moon mission in 2018 or so is not yet embraced by a White House still debating key policy and multibillion-dollar budget questions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And so many key questions remain to be answered, Lou, that White House officials say there's no way the president will have this proposal ready two weeks from now, when he'll deliver a major speech marking the 100th anniversary of Wright brothers' first flight.
And, Lou, aides at the White House say there is still so much to be decided, that this new space initiative might not even be ready for the president's State of the Union address in late January.
DOBBS: John King, thank you very much -- John King, our senior White House correspondent.
And that brings us to tonight's poll. The question: Do you believe the United States should resume sending astronauts to the moon, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the show.
There are new pictures tonight of Mars. The European Space Agency's Mars probe is on the final approach to the red planet. On average, Mars is about 50 million miles from Earth. This photo was taken at a distance of just over three million miles, taken as part of the test of the Mars Express camera, before the robotic spacecraft reaches the surface of the planet later this month.
The Mars Express mission is one of four currently on their way to explore the Martian surface. NASA has two rovers headed for Mars. Spirit is expected to arrive in early January, Opportunity at the end of January.
Coming up next: The White House repeals tariffs on steel. Secretary of the Department of Commerce Don Evans joins me. He says the tariffs served their purpose.
And "Grange On Point" -- tonight, the other war, why more tough challenges lie ahead for America in Afghanistan -- General David Grange.
And the gruesome murder of a United States attorney tonight, the details surrounding the shocking murder. Elaine Quijano will report from Baltimore, Maryland.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Under pressure from the European Union, President Bush today lifted tariffs on imported steel. The president imposed those tariffs 20 months ago, trying to help the struggling steel industry, trying to save tens of thousands of jobs. The European Union responded quickly today, dropping its threat to retaliate against the tariffs with sanctions against a variety of U.S. products.
My guest tonight is responsible for leading this country's competitive strategy in global markets, amongst other duties. Secretary of Commerce Don Evans joins us tonight from Washington.
Mr. Secretary, good to have you with us.
DON EVANS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Thank you, Lou. Good to be with you, as always.
DOBBS: Twenty months and these tariffs did their job for the steel industry? EVANS: Well, certainly, Lou, the industry is a lot stronger today than it was 21 months ago. And you can say that jobs in the steel industry are much more secure than they were 21 months ago.
It's an industry that's gone through major restructuring in the last 21 months and consolidation. Productivity is up dramatically. Costs are down dramatically. I know one of the integrated companies, Lou, would report that, when it did cost -- when it did take 2.5 man hours per ton to produce steel. Now it's one man hour per ton. So there's been great progress and great change in the industry. And it's much stronger today and is once again globally competitive.
DOBBS: The steel leaders that I have talked with, the CEOs of U.S. steel companies, tell me that they're more productive, in point of fact, than most of our foreign competitors, but cannot compete against dumping, which is a charge we've heard from this industry, as you well know, for two decades.
Will this administration reimpose tariffs if these steel companies bring evidence before the ITC, before the administration, and demonstrate dumping?
EVANS: Well, Lou, it's precisely why we're leaving the licensing program in place.
We've told the industry that the licensing program we put in place during the safeguard period will be extended. In fact, not only will it be extended for an indefinite period of time, but we'll expand it to include products that are not now included under the licensing program. This will give the industry real-time information as to imports coming into the United States. And they will be able to use that real-time information and, if they desire, come and petition the government.
And we will, of course, be open-minded. We're going to vigorously enforce our trade laws.
DOBBS: There are those, as you well know, Mr. Secretary, who say that the steel industry, amongst a number of other industries, it's at the heart of our national security interest, that the country simply must, for strategic, national security reasons, have its own vigorous steel industry.
How concerned are you? Is that argument persuasive to protect this steel industry?
EVANS: Well, the president, when he talked about this thing, when he imposed the safeguards 21 months ago, he talked about national security.
And it is an important national security issue. But I must tell you, the industry is a very, very strong industry once again, is once again globally competitive. And so it's not a concern. I mean, this industry has restructured, has consolidated, and I think now can look forward to growth in the years ahead.
DOBBS: Commerce Secretary Don Evans, we thank you for being with us here.
EVANS: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Tonight's thought is on tariffs.
"To introduce a tariff bill into Congress or Parliament is like throwing a banana into a cage of monkeys. No sooner is it proposed to protect one industry than all of the industries that are capable of protection begin to screech and scramble for it." That is from economist Henry George.
Coming up next here, "Broken Borders" -- putting the food supply in danger. One proposal could help to solve the problem, but Congress undecided. Bill Tucker reports.
And "America's Bright Future" -- tonight, a young scientist who taught profession astronomers a lesson while still in high school. Peter Viles has her story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our porous borders threatens not only national security, but also our health and well-being. The hepatitis A outbreak in this country, which killed three people in four states, sickening more than 600 others, linked to contaminated green onions grown in Mexico, the outbreak has raised calls for mandatory labels on our food to indicate its origin. But many parts of the food industry are fighting the movement.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The government could have informed the public about the recent hepatitis outbreak much more quickly had officials known where the onions in question came from. So labeling where our food comes from is a good thing, right? Well, like everything in Washington, there are exemptions to the rules.
JON CASPERS, NATIONAL PORK PRODUCERS COUNCIL: It only applies to products of the covered commodities that are sold at retail in a retail store. And so, if you go to have a pork chop in a restaurant, it won't carry any kind of a country of origin label.
TUCKER: And that's not the end of it. For example, under mandatory country-of-origin labeling, or COOL, as it's called, bulk peanuts have to be labeled, but walnuts and almonds don't. A bag of frozen peas or a bag of carrots have to be labeled, but a bag of carrots and peas doesn't.
The National Cattlemen's Beef Association, the Food Marketing Institute, the Grocery Manufacturers of America all oppose. The list of supporters is every bit as well pedigreed. Why? What's so controversial about knowing that our tomatoes are from Texas and our beef is from New Zealand? Money. The opposition points to the USDA's estimate of $4 billion to implement the program.
However, they don't point to the low-end figure of $585 million. And for supporters of country-of-origin labeling, it comes down to a very simple issue.
JOHN LOCKIE, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: What really comes down to a consumer-right-to-know issue on this is that the consumer does not have the information they need to make an informed purchasing decision.
TUCKER: At the moment, mandatory country-of-origin labeling is a fact and it will be implemented in September of next year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But Congress is considering delaying the implementation of the rules based on a recommendation of a joint House-Senate conference report. And if opponents are successful, they will delay country-of-origin labeling until 2006 -- Lou.
DOBBS: It doesn't seem like that should be that complicated to add a little note there to the packaging.
TUCKER: I wouldn't think so.
DOBBS: Do you think all of those numbers might be just a little high?
TUCKER: Well, look at the spread on the numbers.
DOBBS: I have to say that to see a congressman in a cowboy hat, that's refreshing, to say the least. He looked pretty good in it.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Bill Tucker, thank you.
Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, in El Paso today, is there to announce a new system making it faster for trucks with cargo to cross from Mexico across the border to the United States. The electronic I.D. system allows trucks to pass through the border in a matter of seconds. A similar system already exists at Canadian border.
Critics, such as the Center For Immigration Studies, warn, this new program could lead to the entry of more illegal aliens, as well as the smuggling of drugs and even radiological weapons.
Seven children in Colorado have now died from the flu in a flu season that hit earlier and harder than usual and certainly harder than expected. The death of another child is also being investigated in Colorado. In northern Texas, two children and a teenager have died. One child died in Arizona, all from the flu.
The Centers for Disease Control say, during an average flu season, more than 100,000 Americans are hospitalized and 36,000 die from flu-related problems. That number is expected to double.
Tonight's quote is from a Centers for Disease Control official who today talked about just how bad this flu season could be: "We're getting ready for it to be a severe season, but we don't know how severe it could be" -- Jennifer Wright, epidemiologist at the CDC.
Coming up: the shocking, mysterious murder of a young federal prosecutor tonight. Elaine Quijano will have that disturbing report from Baltimore, Maryland. And CNN law enforcement correspondent Mike Brooks joins us.
And the steel repeal: Who stands to win and lose from the lifting of the tariffs on imported steel? Congresswoman Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania says the tariffs should remain, because they help industry, they keep jobs and preserve national security. Congressman Joe Knollenberg of Michigan says the tariffs have served their purpose.
They both join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The FBI tonight is promising to find those responsible for the murder of a federal prosecutor today in Pennsylvania. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna was found stabbed and shot after he failed to show up for the trial of a rapper who is accused of dealing heroin.
Elaine Quijano has the report -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Lou.
Well, a federal law enforcement source says that Jonathan Luna's body was found in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and says he was stabbed multiple times. Now, today here Baltimore, Luna's boss would not confirm any of those details, but did say there was evidence that Luna was murdered.
Now, a law enforcement official says that, last night, Luna was called away from his home. As you mentioned, he was set to appear here in federal court for the trial of a rap artist facing conspiracy -- drug conspiracy charges.
Now, an associate of that rap artist says that he entered a guilty plea today in court. Meantime, colleagues of Jonathan Luna are vowing to figure out what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM DIBIAGIO, U.S. ATTORNEY MARYLAND: Everyone in law enforcement: local police, state police, United States marshals, ATF, FBI, are united. We will find out who did this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Now Jonathan Luna was 38 years old. He worked as a federal prosecutor here out of this office in Baltimore for four years. He was married and leaves behind two young sons -- Lou?
DOBBS: Elaine, do we know if there had been any threats in this case at all? I know it's very early in this, the murder has just taken place. Do we know about that?
QUIJANO: At this point, Lou, no, we really don't have a lot of details. As you might imagine, this news is really having a devastating affect on the people who work here. I tried to talk to some of them, in fact, earlier tonight, they were too upset to go on camera, much less actually discuss what they were feeling at this point.
Right now we don't have any details about whether or not there were threats made in connection with this case. We don't even know at this point whether or not this case may have had any connection. All we know is that he was supposed to be here for that case in which a plea agreement was reached apparently last night, according to some reports.
That plea, guilty plea entered in court today by the rap artist other than that, we don't have any other details -- Lou?
DOBBS: A terrible, terrible crime. Elaine Quijano, thank you very much, reporting from Baltimore, Maryland.
We turn now to law enforcement correspondent Mike Brooks. Mike, this murder of an assistant U.S. attorney, this is a serious escalation in efforts to fight crime in this country, isn't it?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Incredible. I can tell you, in my 26 years of law enforcement it's not very often you see an assistant United States attorney, a district attorney, any prosecutors ever killed like this. And they said earlier today, the U.S. attorney and the FBI agents from Baltimore said that from -- that they will find out who did this. I can guarantee you, the term "dragnet, that's what you're going to see tonight and until -- and law enforcement will not rest until they find out who is responsible for this heinous crime.
DOBBS: In talking with your sources in Baltimore, federal and local law enforcement, any suggestion at all as to whether or not there had been threats during the course of the trial? Any indication that his personal safety was at risk?
BROOKS: Not hearing anything at all about any threats. And again, we want to be careful not to say that it was associated with this particular case, maybe a past case of his or on possibly a future pending prosecution that he was involved in out of the U.S. attorney's office in Baltimore. They're not saying anything at all about that, Lou.
We also know that he had to love his home last night. They're looking to see whether or not that possibly was a ruse or not. But again, investigators are holding their cards very close to the vest in this particular case. They have put a number out for anyone that has any information possibly to help them solve this in a very, very quick manner -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Mike Brooks.
We return now to one of the top stories of the day. The president's decision to lift steel tariffs on imported steel. Opinions, of course, differ and differ sharply, even in the president's own party on the decision to lift those tariffs.
We we're joined by two Republican members of the House of Representatives with opposing view. Congresswoman Melissa Hart of southwestern Pennsylvania opposes the president's decision. Congresswoman Hart joins us from steel town itself, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
And Congressman Joe Knollenberg, representing suburban Detroit, he applauds the president's decision and joins us tonight from Madison Heights, Michigan. Let me turn if I may, to you, Congresswoman hart. This decision that you oppose.
Let me turn, if I may, to you Congressman Hart. This decision that you oppose. You've heard on this broadcast, the secretary of the department of commerce say, the tariffs have done their job. Why do you disagree?
REP. MELISSA HART, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: I think they've done their job partially. Unfortunately, the integrated steel industry is not finished restructuring and I was hoping, as they were, that the tariffs will be able to run their full course in three years and allow that industry, that's our basic steel industry, to restructure and consolidate in a more efficient way and a more complete way, so that they'd be stronger for the future.
DOBBS: Congressman Knollenberg, this decision, obviously you represent an area in which steel is used. Is it really that simple, Congresswoman Hart from a steel producing district, you from a steel- consuming district, it's a question of who is paying the price for this decision?
REP. JOE KNOLLENBERG, (R) MICHIGAN: I think it's very clear that the steel-consuming part of the industry is one that is hurting. In fact, there have been more jobs lost with steel consumers than jobs protected in the steel-producing end of it.
So I think the decision, reached by the president, is good economically, it's good politically and in fact, it was also good legally. Because if we didn't drop those tariffs, there would be countertariffs that would be thrown at us. The EU, Japan, Korea, are going to come through with retaliatory tariffs and that's not going to helpful.
This boost today is tremendous in many respects. One, it boosts the economy. It helps in fact, I think all of us, it helps steel producers. That may not be clear to the steel producer, but I argue with my counterpart here that this is a good decision and it's one that will help all of us in the end. HART: I disagree with Joe on that point. First of all, the jobs that were lost in the steel industry, significant number, were lost before these tariffs were even put into place. The job count, according to the ITC report, isn't clear as to whether steel consumers even had a problem as far as jobs after the tariffs were put into place.
KNOLLENBERG: Well, talk to the 1,500 companies that are in my district. They're not all steel consumer, but most of them are and I can assure you that they have told me stories about losing people. We know that jobs have been lost and we know that they have lost more jobs again, country wide, than there are in the entire steel-producing sector.
I would argue that the other big factor here is this retaliatory tariff, that's the legal thing. If the president hadn't repealed these tariffs we'd be facing a real trade war.
HART: I agree the president was put into a box by the WTO. There's no question that now that we've subjected ourselves to the WTO and the WTO ruling ruled our tariffs to be improper, the president was put into a box. But again, the argument that it would be helpful to the industry to keep the tariffs, I think is really clear.
DOBBS: Since you both...
HART: Our integrated industries have not completely restructured. We have had some success. In fact, the ITC report was clear when it said there was some success. And the president stated that today. And I agree with Joe, that there was some positive result.
But I would have been happier, and I think most of the integrated steel industry would had been happier, had we been able to follow it all the way through. It's a business plan issue really.
DOBBS: You both talk in agreement on the issue of the WTO, the president being under considerable pressure from the European Union. In point of fact, the European union tonight is crowing a bit, if you will, saying it demonstrates the strength of the European Union. But we have a $90 billion trade deficit with the European Union. You both seem to accept the idea there would have been a retaliation.
The fact is with Japan, with the European Union, the two principal countries in point here on this issue, they would have lost a lot of money in any trade war. Isn't this a little bit of political posturing on the part of both Japan and the European Union?
KNOLLENBERG: Perhaps so, but you know the WTO was something that was confected, in large part, by the United States. And in 39 decisions that have come to fruition the U.S. has won 36. So, I think we've done well there. It is an international body. And it is one that does make rules and frankly the EU can crow, the rest of them can crow, too. But I think in the end, everybody is a little bit happier that we're not going into this trade war scenario. HART: I agree that I'm not happy we're not going into a trade war. But the WTO has not been very favorable at all when it comes to America restructuring our steel industry. They have been really hostile in a lot of ways when we look at the results of really the attacks really against the United States since the president decided to try to help us restructure our industry.
For years a lot of the members of the EU and these others who have threatened tariffs have been dumping steel in the United States. And no one can argue with that. I'm pleased that as part of the statement today the president said that we're going to have the Department of Commerce be very vigilant and make sure that there will be no dumping and if there is, we will make sure we follow it through to make sure there are sanctions against those who dump steel in the United states. We need to do that.
It's really unwise for us to allow our steel industry to falter especially as far as the issues we have now with our own security.
DOBBS: I can safely agree with you both, so long as we don't lose any more jobs or the capacity to maintain our national security.
As we conclude here, Congresswoman Hart, Congressman Knollenberg, I'd just like to share with you an our audience our thought on this issue as we wrap up this segment. We thank you both for being here. And Congresswoman Hart, please get to feeling better. Your stalwart to be here suffering with the flu. We wish you the best.
HART: Well, thanks.
DOBBS: This quote, "consumption is the sole end and purpose of production. And the interest of the producer ought to be attended to only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer." That from a man who knew one or two things and certainly some of the first things about economics, economist and philosopher, Adam Smith.
Coming up next, General David Grange on point. Tonight, the other war, the war in Afghanistan. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell say it's time for NATO to take over in Afghanistan. General David Grange joins us. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, "Grange On Point," the other war. As we've reported to you, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have both now asked NATO to take over combat operations in Afghanistan. That would enable the U.S. military to focus on the larger, more difficult operation in Iraq.
Joining me now, General David Grange. David, let me ask you, first, the mission in Afghanistan, it receives less coverage, certainly, by ourselves, by other news organizations than Iraq. Has that -- would you describe the operation in Afghanistan as successful to this point? GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, they're making progress. It's not completed. You know, we still have Americans, American soldiers, allies, nongovernment organization workers, trying to establish some type of quality of life in the country. They're dying every day. There's still contact. There are some areas not controlled by the coalition. They're controlled by Taliban or remnants of the al Qaeda. So it's still a ways off to accomplish this mission.
DOBBS: The al Qaeda, the Taliban, does it appear to you that they are in resurgence in Afghanistan?
GRANGE: I think so. I think what you're seeing, Lou, is that they have a start of a new offensive for several reasons. One, as a distracter to the American effort in Iraq which is obviously the main effort. But it is a distracter and continuing to go into certain areas where they have control, about 10 percent of the country is one estimate.
They're trying to set conditions to disrupt national elections scheduled for June of 2004. And put fear and terror into some of the minds of governmental workers and the people of Afghanistan themselves.
DOBBS: What is your sense of the environment, the resources, the conditions for that election to be held in June?
GRANGE: Well, the -- President Karzai is pushing hard to have the elections in June. It would be great to have them in June. I don't think that the rural areas are ready for it, because I don't think that the means to do proper elections, to do it fairly, are in place, nor the security of much of the environment.
We went through this in Bosnia. Tried to rush it a bit. Pushed hard by the international community. We ended up having the military support it much more than we were asked to do initially and it didn't turn out quite well at the beginning. So I think it's probably a little immature.
DOBBS: I want to turn to the disarmament of two warlords, near Mazar-e Sharif led by British reconstruction team. Does this represent a change in strategy, a change in attitude on the part of these warlords?
GRANGE: I think so. You know, over the last two years, no one would dare try to disarm the warlords. It was kind of, they had their own autonomous areas. The national government was confined to the vicinity around and in Kabul. And here you have a British -- NATO led, British reconstruction team that went up with the interior minister of Afghanistan to talk to two tough, powerful warlords, Dostum and Atta. And they negotiated turning in of weapons and a cease-fire. And then they put the National Afghan Army battalion, to actually monitor those weapons systems. This is a great accomplishment to date.
DOBBS: Dave, we've got just a few seconds. Your thoughts this administration calling upon NATO to take over combat operations against the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. If everything went perfectly, how soon do you think that that could be effected?
GRANGE: I think it could actually start in 2004, maybe near the fall. It would be great to have NATO take over this operation and give some relief to the resource and sense of operations that the U.S. leads in Iraq.
DOBBS: And be able to rotate some 10,000 American troops out of there.
GRANGE: 10,000, that's right.
DOBBS: General David Grange, as always, thank you.
GRANGE: My pleasure, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next, investing your conscience. One big name American companies have heard a lot about here has been dropped from a prominent list of socially responsible investment funds. Christine Romans will have the story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Managers of socially responsible investment funds have never been busier. In addition to their historical concerns about pollution, political oppression and even sin, these managers now are on the lookout for corporate corruption and the exporting of American jobs and know how abroad. Christine Romans is here tonight with the story -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: (AUDIO GAP) apartheid South Africa, a way for investors to avoid purchasing stocks that do business with South Africa.
But those borders aren't easy anymore. And these managers screen out polluters, bombmakers, tobacco companies, bad safety reports, and now companies that underpay their workers, have crooked boards, overpaid CEOs, conflicts of interests, or who swap out American labor for cheap foreign workers who can't be protected.
Calvert Funds has ramped up its corporate governance screening, as has industry veteran Domini Social Investments. Fund manager Amy Domini used to own shares of all-American wholesome Wal-Mart in her funds, but she has she has dropped that stock.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY DOMINI, PRESIDENT, FOUNDER, DOMINI SOCIAL INVESTMENTS: This is a company that used to be famous for employee stock ownership, buy environmental, giving superior shelf space to environmentally soundly packaged materials, to buy America, remember that campaign? Buying products made in America. All those things were stripped away.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROMANS: Domini says Wal-Mart's social profile and corporate culture have deteriorated. Wal-Mart's response, Lou? It is committed to low prices for its customers who live paycheck to paycheck. It's proud of its social contributions in America. It says it gives away $17,000 an hour to local communities.
DOBBS: Socially responsible investing here is, it's incredible. How many of these funds are stripping Wal-Mart, for example, out of their funds?
ROMANS: Many of them. If you look at the top 10 holdings of all of the top ones, you won't find Wal-Mart in there. You know, and these funds actually doing pretty well this year. Sometimes they don't. This time, they're doing pretty well.
DOBBS: Terrific. Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts. Our "Face Off" last night over the success or failure of No Child Left Behind.
From Presidio, Texas -- "I must say the 'No Student Left Behind' idea is admirable. However, our children gain their values and basic learning skills from home. It's time for parents to quit charging the nation's school system and overworked teachers for their child's academic delinquency." That from John Kildall.
From Belton, Texas: "Thank you for featuring the issues regarding education and encouraging all to work together. I am a former teacher and current principal of a low-income school. I am not making excuses, but NCLB does not recognize the unlevel playing field which low income schools face." Patricia Perkison.
On "Exporting America," from Lansing, Michigan -- "Excuse me, Mr. Dobbs, did I just hear you ask Americans to rat out those companies who move their operations to other countries? As an entrepreneur and a business owner, I was personally appalled at your request. Did you ever wonder if their survival depended on such a move and that economic conditions were no longer favorable for them? Shame on you, Mr. Dobbs, and anyone else who takes on your request." Carlton Combs.
Well, Carlton, you will also be shaming hundreds and hundreds of our viewers who overnight have already sent us the names of hundreds of companies outsourcing jobs, exporting America. Last night we asked our viewers for help. We're asking for your help again tonight. We want to hear from you if your employer is sending American jobs overseas, or if you know of other companies that are doing so.
There are no official records kept. We are trying to pull together all of your contributions, investigating whether the companies are indeed exporting jobs to low-cost workers overseas. Here over the next few weeks, as we continue our reports, "Exporting America," we'll be sharing that comprehensive list with you of the companies exporting America. The overwhelming number of our viewers are thrilled that someone is tracking the massive export of jobs. Please e-mail us at loudobs@cnn.com. Now, just one more e-mail. From Saco, Maine -- "I am one of the very few in the United States who still has a job in the manufacturing, but the future is grim. It only takes on trip to a trade show or one phone call to any manufacturer in the United States to hear the exact same story, all capital investments are headed offshore." Glenn Vaillancourt.
We appreciate hearing from you. Our address, again, loudobbs@cnn.com.
Coming up next -- "America's Bright Future." Tonight, a talented young scientist, her remarkable achievements that stunned and impressed the most accomplished astronomers. Peter Viles will have her story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight -- 58 percent of you say the United States should resume sending astronauts to the moon; 42 percent voting no.
Tonight, we introduce you to a high school senior who broke new ground in the field of astronomy, surpassing even seasoned professionals in astronomy. She devised a fast, simple, accurate method of measuring the Earth's distance from asteroids, and she did it all before finishing high school. Peter Viles has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of great mysteries of space, asteroids, millions of mini-planets. But how many are close to the Earth and just how close are they?
Meet the high school senior who's finding out.
Lisa Glukhovsky of New Milford, Connecticut, daughter of Russian immigrants, is lucky. There's an observatory just a few steps from her public high school.
LISA GLUKHOVSKY, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I find astronomy incredibly exciting, especially because there's still so much left to discover.
VILES: But she is also brilliant and she does not give up. For a science project, she set out to measure the distance to near-Earth asteroids. Her theory, if she could view the same asteroid at the same instance from two observatories, she could create a giant triangle, and then using geometry could calculate the distance to the asteroid.
She spent months working out the math, then used the Internet to link observatories in Denmark, the Netherlands and California, but then it took even more time, eight months in all, to see if her system really worked.
GLUKHOVSKY: There was an earthquake in California in the fall of -- in the fall of the year that I started my project. There were also forest fires in California. And I think the worst problem was the bad weather that occurred.
VILES: But then, finally the weather cleared, the images came by e-mail, and lo and behold, the system did work.
GLUKHOVSKY: I wasn't going to give up. But it just -- it takes a lot of patience and perseverance.
VILES: Lisa's measurements of asteroids that are 11 million kilometers from Earth proved to be remarkably accurate.
MONTY ROBSON, SOCIETY FOR AMATEUR SCIENTISTS: Right now, it's an amazing feat that as a high school student, she was able to do this. So I think it's just amazing that she had the fortitude to carry it through and to make such an important and winning project.
VILES: The scientists said Intel agreed. They gave Lisa their highest award for young scientists, and a $50,000 scholarship. She won another scholarship from the United States Navy and Marine Corps, and hopes to attend college in New England.
Peter Viles, CNN, New Milford, Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And that's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Interview With Commerce Secretary Don Evans>
Aired December 4, 2003 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.
Tonight: The United States is calling upon NATO to take over combat operations in Afghanistan. Both Secretary of State Colin Powell and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are asking NATO to take over the fight against remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. NATO already has almost 6,000 troops deployed there, but nearly all of them are assigned to peacekeeping operations in and near Kabul.
The withdrawal of American combat forces from Afghanistan would enable the Pentagon focus on the much larger and, to this point, more difficult mission in Iraq.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports on these developments, which amount to an Afghanistan exit strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Afghanistan, NATO has taken responsibility for providing security in Kabul. And German troops have begun to move into the northern town of Kunduz, as NATO expands the 5,700-strong International Security Assistance Force outside the Afghan capital.
It's a mission with historic implications, as noted by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld as he met with President Karzai in Kabul Thursday.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Never in the 50-year history of that organization have they ever been involved in anything outside of the NATO treaty area. And this, their first activity of this type, is important for them. I understand that it's important for Afghanistan as well.
MCINTYRE: After some foot-dragging, NATO nations are coming through with more troops and equipment for the expanded mission in Afghanistan. Both Turkey and the Netherlands are providing more critically needed helicopters.
But the U.S. would like to see more NATO help in Iraq as well, which, for now, is limited to logistical support for the Polish-led division that is keeping peace in central Iraq. At NATO headquarters in Brussels, Secretary of State Colin Powell made the case or a wider NATO role in Iraq and took heart that no one refused outright.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: As we discussed about the possibility of NATO taking an enhanced role in Iraq, taking a new kind of role in Iraq, not a single member spoke against it or talked about reasons not to do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: But the lack of outright opposition doesn't translate into support for direct NATO involvement in Iraq, at least not yet. NATO already believes it has its hands full in Afghanistan.
Today, Lord Robertson, the NATO secretary-general, said that NATO was preoccupied with getting things right in Afghanistan and would be making no decision about Iraq any time soon. Also, the U.S. will continue its hunt for the Taliban remnants in Afghanistan for now, as NATO's role will be limited to providing security in other areas of the country -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, Jamie, at this point, is it clear that the troops now deployed in Afghanistan would indeed be deployed to Iraq, should NATO comply with the request of both Secretary Rumsfeld and Colin Powell?
MCINTYRE: Well, they haven't requested directly for the NATO troops to take over that hunt for Taliban remnants.
But, once the U.S. believes that there's enough security in Afghanistan, they could shift those troops. But there's no prospect of that happening any time soon, certainly while bin Laden remains at large.
DOBBS: Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, thank you.
While Germany is already helping the United States in Afghanistan, it seems less inclined to support U.S. foreign policy in Asia, in particular, toward China. In a remarkable case of bad timing, not to mention poor diplomacy, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder this week called for a resumption of weapons sales to the Chinese military. It would seem, the German chancellor failed to notice that China is threatening to go to war against Taiwan if its leaders move toward independence.
During the summer, France also called for the lifting of the arms embargo on China.
The United States has a huge military advantage over any potential enemy, in part because of an extensive network of spy satellites that provide real-time intelligence. But the program to develop a new generation of reconnaissance satellites is vastly over budget and years behind schedule.
National security correspondent David Ensor reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As U.S. intelligence showed off at a recent trade fair, America's spy satellites were critical in Iraq and Afghanistan. Keeping and improving the strategic advantage they provide could be crucial.
But critics, including the Pentagon's own Defense Science Board, warned that the program to field the next generation of satellites is behind schedule, over budget and, as the board said, bluntly -- quote -- "not executable."
STEVEN AFTERGOOD, FEDERATION OF AMERICAN SCIENTISTS: Not executable is a fancy way of saying, it won't work. And, of course, that's a serious problem.
ENSOR: A serious problem noted last year by the Defense Science Board. But officials from Boeing, the contractor building the next generation of satellites, say the problem has been solved since then by pushing back deadlines, lowering some capability requirements, and shifting what is reportedly another $4 billion taxpayer from other government programs.
KEITH HALL, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL RECONNAISSANCE OFFICE: I don't think there's much of a risk of the nation going blind.
ENSOR: Critics charge, Boeing got the job in the '90s by convincing government officials that it could do the impossible.
LOREN THOMPSON:, LEXINGTON INSTITUTE: Maybe the biggest mistake that the government made when it signed on for this new satellite system is that it believed too much from the contractors, in terms of what could be done. It basically rejected a conservative bid and went with a radical one. And now we're finding out it can't be done on time or on cost, and maybe it can't be done at all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: A National Reconnaissance Office spokesman says, at a minimum, the last criticism is out of date, that the next generation of spy satellites is now back on schedule at Boeing, with the first set to be launch around the middle of the decade -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, David Ensor, our national security correspondent.
Spy satellites already in orbit have given a new task -- been given a new task, to check the International Space Station for any signs of damage. The satellites are looking for possible exterior damage, after the two-man crew aboard Station Alpha heard a loud noise last week. The astronauts say there has been no change in air pressure in the space station and that all the systems are working normally. But, learning from the Columbia shuttle disaster, NASA says it's take no chances.
President Bush is preparing to announce a radical new vision for the American space program. The president is talking about a series of initiatives that could include new manned space missions and even a permanent base on the moon.
Senior White House correspondent John King has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president is on the verge of calling for a return to the moon, as part of a dramatic new mission for the space program.
And sources say other ideas on the table include a permanent presence on the moon and even a manned mission to Mars. Aides say Mr. Bush wants to set bold new goals in space, but has not made key decisions.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are no plans for any policy announcements in the immediate future.
KING: After the Columbia disaster 10 months ago, the president quickly committed to resuming shuttle flights. NASA's latest target is early 2005.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mankind has led into the darkness beyond our world by the inspiration of discovery and the longing to understand. Our journey into space will go on.
KING: The administration review includes setting a target for retiring the shuttle fleet, a plan to phase out the International Space Station, picking a new space vehicle for manned flights, debating the costs and benefits of a permanent moon base, and developing a proposal for a mission to Mars.
NASA is urgently debating and refining proposals. And Vice President Cheney is consulting key members of Congress.
SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: Great countries need to have visions to pull them on forward.
KING: The last moon flight was 31 years ago, December 1972. Sources tell CNN, NASA's target for returning to the moon is about 15 years from now.
BROWNBACK: You've got the Chinese now going into space and saying that they're interested in going to the moon. We don't want them really to beat us to the moon. And, instead, we'd rather be there and be able to develop the resources, the areas, the sweet spots for observation.
KING: But NASA's target of a moon mission in 2018 or so is not yet embraced by a White House still debating key policy and multibillion-dollar budget questions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And so many key questions remain to be answered, Lou, that White House officials say there's no way the president will have this proposal ready two weeks from now, when he'll deliver a major speech marking the 100th anniversary of Wright brothers' first flight.
And, Lou, aides at the White House say there is still so much to be decided, that this new space initiative might not even be ready for the president's State of the Union address in late January.
DOBBS: John King, thank you very much -- John King, our senior White House correspondent.
And that brings us to tonight's poll. The question: Do you believe the United States should resume sending astronauts to the moon, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results later in the show.
There are new pictures tonight of Mars. The European Space Agency's Mars probe is on the final approach to the red planet. On average, Mars is about 50 million miles from Earth. This photo was taken at a distance of just over three million miles, taken as part of the test of the Mars Express camera, before the robotic spacecraft reaches the surface of the planet later this month.
The Mars Express mission is one of four currently on their way to explore the Martian surface. NASA has two rovers headed for Mars. Spirit is expected to arrive in early January, Opportunity at the end of January.
Coming up next: The White House repeals tariffs on steel. Secretary of the Department of Commerce Don Evans joins me. He says the tariffs served their purpose.
And "Grange On Point" -- tonight, the other war, why more tough challenges lie ahead for America in Afghanistan -- General David Grange.
And the gruesome murder of a United States attorney tonight, the details surrounding the shocking murder. Elaine Quijano will report from Baltimore, Maryland.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Under pressure from the European Union, President Bush today lifted tariffs on imported steel. The president imposed those tariffs 20 months ago, trying to help the struggling steel industry, trying to save tens of thousands of jobs. The European Union responded quickly today, dropping its threat to retaliate against the tariffs with sanctions against a variety of U.S. products.
My guest tonight is responsible for leading this country's competitive strategy in global markets, amongst other duties. Secretary of Commerce Don Evans joins us tonight from Washington.
Mr. Secretary, good to have you with us.
DON EVANS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Thank you, Lou. Good to be with you, as always.
DOBBS: Twenty months and these tariffs did their job for the steel industry? EVANS: Well, certainly, Lou, the industry is a lot stronger today than it was 21 months ago. And you can say that jobs in the steel industry are much more secure than they were 21 months ago.
It's an industry that's gone through major restructuring in the last 21 months and consolidation. Productivity is up dramatically. Costs are down dramatically. I know one of the integrated companies, Lou, would report that, when it did cost -- when it did take 2.5 man hours per ton to produce steel. Now it's one man hour per ton. So there's been great progress and great change in the industry. And it's much stronger today and is once again globally competitive.
DOBBS: The steel leaders that I have talked with, the CEOs of U.S. steel companies, tell me that they're more productive, in point of fact, than most of our foreign competitors, but cannot compete against dumping, which is a charge we've heard from this industry, as you well know, for two decades.
Will this administration reimpose tariffs if these steel companies bring evidence before the ITC, before the administration, and demonstrate dumping?
EVANS: Well, Lou, it's precisely why we're leaving the licensing program in place.
We've told the industry that the licensing program we put in place during the safeguard period will be extended. In fact, not only will it be extended for an indefinite period of time, but we'll expand it to include products that are not now included under the licensing program. This will give the industry real-time information as to imports coming into the United States. And they will be able to use that real-time information and, if they desire, come and petition the government.
And we will, of course, be open-minded. We're going to vigorously enforce our trade laws.
DOBBS: There are those, as you well know, Mr. Secretary, who say that the steel industry, amongst a number of other industries, it's at the heart of our national security interest, that the country simply must, for strategic, national security reasons, have its own vigorous steel industry.
How concerned are you? Is that argument persuasive to protect this steel industry?
EVANS: Well, the president, when he talked about this thing, when he imposed the safeguards 21 months ago, he talked about national security.
And it is an important national security issue. But I must tell you, the industry is a very, very strong industry once again, is once again globally competitive. And so it's not a concern. I mean, this industry has restructured, has consolidated, and I think now can look forward to growth in the years ahead.
DOBBS: Commerce Secretary Don Evans, we thank you for being with us here.
EVANS: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Tonight's thought is on tariffs.
"To introduce a tariff bill into Congress or Parliament is like throwing a banana into a cage of monkeys. No sooner is it proposed to protect one industry than all of the industries that are capable of protection begin to screech and scramble for it." That is from economist Henry George.
Coming up next here, "Broken Borders" -- putting the food supply in danger. One proposal could help to solve the problem, but Congress undecided. Bill Tucker reports.
And "America's Bright Future" -- tonight, a young scientist who taught profession astronomers a lesson while still in high school. Peter Viles has her story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our porous borders threatens not only national security, but also our health and well-being. The hepatitis A outbreak in this country, which killed three people in four states, sickening more than 600 others, linked to contaminated green onions grown in Mexico, the outbreak has raised calls for mandatory labels on our food to indicate its origin. But many parts of the food industry are fighting the movement.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The government could have informed the public about the recent hepatitis outbreak much more quickly had officials known where the onions in question came from. So labeling where our food comes from is a good thing, right? Well, like everything in Washington, there are exemptions to the rules.
JON CASPERS, NATIONAL PORK PRODUCERS COUNCIL: It only applies to products of the covered commodities that are sold at retail in a retail store. And so, if you go to have a pork chop in a restaurant, it won't carry any kind of a country of origin label.
TUCKER: And that's not the end of it. For example, under mandatory country-of-origin labeling, or COOL, as it's called, bulk peanuts have to be labeled, but walnuts and almonds don't. A bag of frozen peas or a bag of carrots have to be labeled, but a bag of carrots and peas doesn't.
The National Cattlemen's Beef Association, the Food Marketing Institute, the Grocery Manufacturers of America all oppose. The list of supporters is every bit as well pedigreed. Why? What's so controversial about knowing that our tomatoes are from Texas and our beef is from New Zealand? Money. The opposition points to the USDA's estimate of $4 billion to implement the program.
However, they don't point to the low-end figure of $585 million. And for supporters of country-of-origin labeling, it comes down to a very simple issue.
JOHN LOCKIE, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: What really comes down to a consumer-right-to-know issue on this is that the consumer does not have the information they need to make an informed purchasing decision.
TUCKER: At the moment, mandatory country-of-origin labeling is a fact and it will be implemented in September of next year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But Congress is considering delaying the implementation of the rules based on a recommendation of a joint House-Senate conference report. And if opponents are successful, they will delay country-of-origin labeling until 2006 -- Lou.
DOBBS: It doesn't seem like that should be that complicated to add a little note there to the packaging.
TUCKER: I wouldn't think so.
DOBBS: Do you think all of those numbers might be just a little high?
TUCKER: Well, look at the spread on the numbers.
DOBBS: I have to say that to see a congressman in a cowboy hat, that's refreshing, to say the least. He looked pretty good in it.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Bill Tucker, thank you.
Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, in El Paso today, is there to announce a new system making it faster for trucks with cargo to cross from Mexico across the border to the United States. The electronic I.D. system allows trucks to pass through the border in a matter of seconds. A similar system already exists at Canadian border.
Critics, such as the Center For Immigration Studies, warn, this new program could lead to the entry of more illegal aliens, as well as the smuggling of drugs and even radiological weapons.
Seven children in Colorado have now died from the flu in a flu season that hit earlier and harder than usual and certainly harder than expected. The death of another child is also being investigated in Colorado. In northern Texas, two children and a teenager have died. One child died in Arizona, all from the flu.
The Centers for Disease Control say, during an average flu season, more than 100,000 Americans are hospitalized and 36,000 die from flu-related problems. That number is expected to double.
Tonight's quote is from a Centers for Disease Control official who today talked about just how bad this flu season could be: "We're getting ready for it to be a severe season, but we don't know how severe it could be" -- Jennifer Wright, epidemiologist at the CDC.
Coming up: the shocking, mysterious murder of a young federal prosecutor tonight. Elaine Quijano will have that disturbing report from Baltimore, Maryland. And CNN law enforcement correspondent Mike Brooks joins us.
And the steel repeal: Who stands to win and lose from the lifting of the tariffs on imported steel? Congresswoman Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania says the tariffs should remain, because they help industry, they keep jobs and preserve national security. Congressman Joe Knollenberg of Michigan says the tariffs have served their purpose.
They both join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The FBI tonight is promising to find those responsible for the murder of a federal prosecutor today in Pennsylvania. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna was found stabbed and shot after he failed to show up for the trial of a rapper who is accused of dealing heroin.
Elaine Quijano has the report -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Lou.
Well, a federal law enforcement source says that Jonathan Luna's body was found in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and says he was stabbed multiple times. Now, today here Baltimore, Luna's boss would not confirm any of those details, but did say there was evidence that Luna was murdered.
Now, a law enforcement official says that, last night, Luna was called away from his home. As you mentioned, he was set to appear here in federal court for the trial of a rap artist facing conspiracy -- drug conspiracy charges.
Now, an associate of that rap artist says that he entered a guilty plea today in court. Meantime, colleagues of Jonathan Luna are vowing to figure out what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM DIBIAGIO, U.S. ATTORNEY MARYLAND: Everyone in law enforcement: local police, state police, United States marshals, ATF, FBI, are united. We will find out who did this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Now Jonathan Luna was 38 years old. He worked as a federal prosecutor here out of this office in Baltimore for four years. He was married and leaves behind two young sons -- Lou?
DOBBS: Elaine, do we know if there had been any threats in this case at all? I know it's very early in this, the murder has just taken place. Do we know about that?
QUIJANO: At this point, Lou, no, we really don't have a lot of details. As you might imagine, this news is really having a devastating affect on the people who work here. I tried to talk to some of them, in fact, earlier tonight, they were too upset to go on camera, much less actually discuss what they were feeling at this point.
Right now we don't have any details about whether or not there were threats made in connection with this case. We don't even know at this point whether or not this case may have had any connection. All we know is that he was supposed to be here for that case in which a plea agreement was reached apparently last night, according to some reports.
That plea, guilty plea entered in court today by the rap artist other than that, we don't have any other details -- Lou?
DOBBS: A terrible, terrible crime. Elaine Quijano, thank you very much, reporting from Baltimore, Maryland.
We turn now to law enforcement correspondent Mike Brooks. Mike, this murder of an assistant U.S. attorney, this is a serious escalation in efforts to fight crime in this country, isn't it?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Incredible. I can tell you, in my 26 years of law enforcement it's not very often you see an assistant United States attorney, a district attorney, any prosecutors ever killed like this. And they said earlier today, the U.S. attorney and the FBI agents from Baltimore said that from -- that they will find out who did this. I can guarantee you, the term "dragnet, that's what you're going to see tonight and until -- and law enforcement will not rest until they find out who is responsible for this heinous crime.
DOBBS: In talking with your sources in Baltimore, federal and local law enforcement, any suggestion at all as to whether or not there had been threats during the course of the trial? Any indication that his personal safety was at risk?
BROOKS: Not hearing anything at all about any threats. And again, we want to be careful not to say that it was associated with this particular case, maybe a past case of his or on possibly a future pending prosecution that he was involved in out of the U.S. attorney's office in Baltimore. They're not saying anything at all about that, Lou.
We also know that he had to love his home last night. They're looking to see whether or not that possibly was a ruse or not. But again, investigators are holding their cards very close to the vest in this particular case. They have put a number out for anyone that has any information possibly to help them solve this in a very, very quick manner -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Mike Brooks.
We return now to one of the top stories of the day. The president's decision to lift steel tariffs on imported steel. Opinions, of course, differ and differ sharply, even in the president's own party on the decision to lift those tariffs.
We we're joined by two Republican members of the House of Representatives with opposing view. Congresswoman Melissa Hart of southwestern Pennsylvania opposes the president's decision. Congresswoman Hart joins us from steel town itself, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
And Congressman Joe Knollenberg, representing suburban Detroit, he applauds the president's decision and joins us tonight from Madison Heights, Michigan. Let me turn if I may, to you, Congresswoman hart. This decision that you oppose.
Let me turn, if I may, to you Congressman Hart. This decision that you oppose. You've heard on this broadcast, the secretary of the department of commerce say, the tariffs have done their job. Why do you disagree?
REP. MELISSA HART, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: I think they've done their job partially. Unfortunately, the integrated steel industry is not finished restructuring and I was hoping, as they were, that the tariffs will be able to run their full course in three years and allow that industry, that's our basic steel industry, to restructure and consolidate in a more efficient way and a more complete way, so that they'd be stronger for the future.
DOBBS: Congressman Knollenberg, this decision, obviously you represent an area in which steel is used. Is it really that simple, Congresswoman Hart from a steel producing district, you from a steel- consuming district, it's a question of who is paying the price for this decision?
REP. JOE KNOLLENBERG, (R) MICHIGAN: I think it's very clear that the steel-consuming part of the industry is one that is hurting. In fact, there have been more jobs lost with steel consumers than jobs protected in the steel-producing end of it.
So I think the decision, reached by the president, is good economically, it's good politically and in fact, it was also good legally. Because if we didn't drop those tariffs, there would be countertariffs that would be thrown at us. The EU, Japan, Korea, are going to come through with retaliatory tariffs and that's not going to helpful.
This boost today is tremendous in many respects. One, it boosts the economy. It helps in fact, I think all of us, it helps steel producers. That may not be clear to the steel producer, but I argue with my counterpart here that this is a good decision and it's one that will help all of us in the end. HART: I disagree with Joe on that point. First of all, the jobs that were lost in the steel industry, significant number, were lost before these tariffs were even put into place. The job count, according to the ITC report, isn't clear as to whether steel consumers even had a problem as far as jobs after the tariffs were put into place.
KNOLLENBERG: Well, talk to the 1,500 companies that are in my district. They're not all steel consumer, but most of them are and I can assure you that they have told me stories about losing people. We know that jobs have been lost and we know that they have lost more jobs again, country wide, than there are in the entire steel-producing sector.
I would argue that the other big factor here is this retaliatory tariff, that's the legal thing. If the president hadn't repealed these tariffs we'd be facing a real trade war.
HART: I agree the president was put into a box by the WTO. There's no question that now that we've subjected ourselves to the WTO and the WTO ruling ruled our tariffs to be improper, the president was put into a box. But again, the argument that it would be helpful to the industry to keep the tariffs, I think is really clear.
DOBBS: Since you both...
HART: Our integrated industries have not completely restructured. We have had some success. In fact, the ITC report was clear when it said there was some success. And the president stated that today. And I agree with Joe, that there was some positive result.
But I would have been happier, and I think most of the integrated steel industry would had been happier, had we been able to follow it all the way through. It's a business plan issue really.
DOBBS: You both talk in agreement on the issue of the WTO, the president being under considerable pressure from the European Union. In point of fact, the European union tonight is crowing a bit, if you will, saying it demonstrates the strength of the European Union. But we have a $90 billion trade deficit with the European Union. You both seem to accept the idea there would have been a retaliation.
The fact is with Japan, with the European Union, the two principal countries in point here on this issue, they would have lost a lot of money in any trade war. Isn't this a little bit of political posturing on the part of both Japan and the European Union?
KNOLLENBERG: Perhaps so, but you know the WTO was something that was confected, in large part, by the United States. And in 39 decisions that have come to fruition the U.S. has won 36. So, I think we've done well there. It is an international body. And it is one that does make rules and frankly the EU can crow, the rest of them can crow, too. But I think in the end, everybody is a little bit happier that we're not going into this trade war scenario. HART: I agree that I'm not happy we're not going into a trade war. But the WTO has not been very favorable at all when it comes to America restructuring our steel industry. They have been really hostile in a lot of ways when we look at the results of really the attacks really against the United States since the president decided to try to help us restructure our industry.
For years a lot of the members of the EU and these others who have threatened tariffs have been dumping steel in the United States. And no one can argue with that. I'm pleased that as part of the statement today the president said that we're going to have the Department of Commerce be very vigilant and make sure that there will be no dumping and if there is, we will make sure we follow it through to make sure there are sanctions against those who dump steel in the United states. We need to do that.
It's really unwise for us to allow our steel industry to falter especially as far as the issues we have now with our own security.
DOBBS: I can safely agree with you both, so long as we don't lose any more jobs or the capacity to maintain our national security.
As we conclude here, Congresswoman Hart, Congressman Knollenberg, I'd just like to share with you an our audience our thought on this issue as we wrap up this segment. We thank you both for being here. And Congresswoman Hart, please get to feeling better. Your stalwart to be here suffering with the flu. We wish you the best.
HART: Well, thanks.
DOBBS: This quote, "consumption is the sole end and purpose of production. And the interest of the producer ought to be attended to only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer." That from a man who knew one or two things and certainly some of the first things about economics, economist and philosopher, Adam Smith.
Coming up next, General David Grange on point. Tonight, the other war, the war in Afghanistan. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell say it's time for NATO to take over in Afghanistan. General David Grange joins us. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Tonight, "Grange On Point," the other war. As we've reported to you, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have both now asked NATO to take over combat operations in Afghanistan. That would enable the U.S. military to focus on the larger, more difficult operation in Iraq.
Joining me now, General David Grange. David, let me ask you, first, the mission in Afghanistan, it receives less coverage, certainly, by ourselves, by other news organizations than Iraq. Has that -- would you describe the operation in Afghanistan as successful to this point? GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, they're making progress. It's not completed. You know, we still have Americans, American soldiers, allies, nongovernment organization workers, trying to establish some type of quality of life in the country. They're dying every day. There's still contact. There are some areas not controlled by the coalition. They're controlled by Taliban or remnants of the al Qaeda. So it's still a ways off to accomplish this mission.
DOBBS: The al Qaeda, the Taliban, does it appear to you that they are in resurgence in Afghanistan?
GRANGE: I think so. I think what you're seeing, Lou, is that they have a start of a new offensive for several reasons. One, as a distracter to the American effort in Iraq which is obviously the main effort. But it is a distracter and continuing to go into certain areas where they have control, about 10 percent of the country is one estimate.
They're trying to set conditions to disrupt national elections scheduled for June of 2004. And put fear and terror into some of the minds of governmental workers and the people of Afghanistan themselves.
DOBBS: What is your sense of the environment, the resources, the conditions for that election to be held in June?
GRANGE: Well, the -- President Karzai is pushing hard to have the elections in June. It would be great to have them in June. I don't think that the rural areas are ready for it, because I don't think that the means to do proper elections, to do it fairly, are in place, nor the security of much of the environment.
We went through this in Bosnia. Tried to rush it a bit. Pushed hard by the international community. We ended up having the military support it much more than we were asked to do initially and it didn't turn out quite well at the beginning. So I think it's probably a little immature.
DOBBS: I want to turn to the disarmament of two warlords, near Mazar-e Sharif led by British reconstruction team. Does this represent a change in strategy, a change in attitude on the part of these warlords?
GRANGE: I think so. You know, over the last two years, no one would dare try to disarm the warlords. It was kind of, they had their own autonomous areas. The national government was confined to the vicinity around and in Kabul. And here you have a British -- NATO led, British reconstruction team that went up with the interior minister of Afghanistan to talk to two tough, powerful warlords, Dostum and Atta. And they negotiated turning in of weapons and a cease-fire. And then they put the National Afghan Army battalion, to actually monitor those weapons systems. This is a great accomplishment to date.
DOBBS: Dave, we've got just a few seconds. Your thoughts this administration calling upon NATO to take over combat operations against the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. If everything went perfectly, how soon do you think that that could be effected?
GRANGE: I think it could actually start in 2004, maybe near the fall. It would be great to have NATO take over this operation and give some relief to the resource and sense of operations that the U.S. leads in Iraq.
DOBBS: And be able to rotate some 10,000 American troops out of there.
GRANGE: 10,000, that's right.
DOBBS: General David Grange, as always, thank you.
GRANGE: My pleasure, Lou.
DOBBS: Up next, investing your conscience. One big name American companies have heard a lot about here has been dropped from a prominent list of socially responsible investment funds. Christine Romans will have the story. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Managers of socially responsible investment funds have never been busier. In addition to their historical concerns about pollution, political oppression and even sin, these managers now are on the lookout for corporate corruption and the exporting of American jobs and know how abroad. Christine Romans is here tonight with the story -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: (AUDIO GAP) apartheid South Africa, a way for investors to avoid purchasing stocks that do business with South Africa.
But those borders aren't easy anymore. And these managers screen out polluters, bombmakers, tobacco companies, bad safety reports, and now companies that underpay their workers, have crooked boards, overpaid CEOs, conflicts of interests, or who swap out American labor for cheap foreign workers who can't be protected.
Calvert Funds has ramped up its corporate governance screening, as has industry veteran Domini Social Investments. Fund manager Amy Domini used to own shares of all-American wholesome Wal-Mart in her funds, but she has she has dropped that stock.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY DOMINI, PRESIDENT, FOUNDER, DOMINI SOCIAL INVESTMENTS: This is a company that used to be famous for employee stock ownership, buy environmental, giving superior shelf space to environmentally soundly packaged materials, to buy America, remember that campaign? Buying products made in America. All those things were stripped away.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROMANS: Domini says Wal-Mart's social profile and corporate culture have deteriorated. Wal-Mart's response, Lou? It is committed to low prices for its customers who live paycheck to paycheck. It's proud of its social contributions in America. It says it gives away $17,000 an hour to local communities.
DOBBS: Socially responsible investing here is, it's incredible. How many of these funds are stripping Wal-Mart, for example, out of their funds?
ROMANS: Many of them. If you look at the top 10 holdings of all of the top ones, you won't find Wal-Mart in there. You know, and these funds actually doing pretty well this year. Sometimes they don't. This time, they're doing pretty well.
DOBBS: Terrific. Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Now let's take a look at some of your thoughts. Our "Face Off" last night over the success or failure of No Child Left Behind.
From Presidio, Texas -- "I must say the 'No Student Left Behind' idea is admirable. However, our children gain their values and basic learning skills from home. It's time for parents to quit charging the nation's school system and overworked teachers for their child's academic delinquency." That from John Kildall.
From Belton, Texas: "Thank you for featuring the issues regarding education and encouraging all to work together. I am a former teacher and current principal of a low-income school. I am not making excuses, but NCLB does not recognize the unlevel playing field which low income schools face." Patricia Perkison.
On "Exporting America," from Lansing, Michigan -- "Excuse me, Mr. Dobbs, did I just hear you ask Americans to rat out those companies who move their operations to other countries? As an entrepreneur and a business owner, I was personally appalled at your request. Did you ever wonder if their survival depended on such a move and that economic conditions were no longer favorable for them? Shame on you, Mr. Dobbs, and anyone else who takes on your request." Carlton Combs.
Well, Carlton, you will also be shaming hundreds and hundreds of our viewers who overnight have already sent us the names of hundreds of companies outsourcing jobs, exporting America. Last night we asked our viewers for help. We're asking for your help again tonight. We want to hear from you if your employer is sending American jobs overseas, or if you know of other companies that are doing so.
There are no official records kept. We are trying to pull together all of your contributions, investigating whether the companies are indeed exporting jobs to low-cost workers overseas. Here over the next few weeks, as we continue our reports, "Exporting America," we'll be sharing that comprehensive list with you of the companies exporting America. The overwhelming number of our viewers are thrilled that someone is tracking the massive export of jobs. Please e-mail us at loudobs@cnn.com. Now, just one more e-mail. From Saco, Maine -- "I am one of the very few in the United States who still has a job in the manufacturing, but the future is grim. It only takes on trip to a trade show or one phone call to any manufacturer in the United States to hear the exact same story, all capital investments are headed offshore." Glenn Vaillancourt.
We appreciate hearing from you. Our address, again, loudobbs@cnn.com.
Coming up next -- "America's Bright Future." Tonight, a talented young scientist, her remarkable achievements that stunned and impressed the most accomplished astronomers. Peter Viles will have her story.
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DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight -- 58 percent of you say the United States should resume sending astronauts to the moon; 42 percent voting no.
Tonight, we introduce you to a high school senior who broke new ground in the field of astronomy, surpassing even seasoned professionals in astronomy. She devised a fast, simple, accurate method of measuring the Earth's distance from asteroids, and she did it all before finishing high school. Peter Viles has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of great mysteries of space, asteroids, millions of mini-planets. But how many are close to the Earth and just how close are they?
Meet the high school senior who's finding out.
Lisa Glukhovsky of New Milford, Connecticut, daughter of Russian immigrants, is lucky. There's an observatory just a few steps from her public high school.
LISA GLUKHOVSKY, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I find astronomy incredibly exciting, especially because there's still so much left to discover.
VILES: But she is also brilliant and she does not give up. For a science project, she set out to measure the distance to near-Earth asteroids. Her theory, if she could view the same asteroid at the same instance from two observatories, she could create a giant triangle, and then using geometry could calculate the distance to the asteroid.
She spent months working out the math, then used the Internet to link observatories in Denmark, the Netherlands and California, but then it took even more time, eight months in all, to see if her system really worked.
GLUKHOVSKY: There was an earthquake in California in the fall of -- in the fall of the year that I started my project. There were also forest fires in California. And I think the worst problem was the bad weather that occurred.
VILES: But then, finally the weather cleared, the images came by e-mail, and lo and behold, the system did work.
GLUKHOVSKY: I wasn't going to give up. But it just -- it takes a lot of patience and perseverance.
VILES: Lisa's measurements of asteroids that are 11 million kilometers from Earth proved to be remarkably accurate.
MONTY ROBSON, SOCIETY FOR AMATEUR SCIENTISTS: Right now, it's an amazing feat that as a high school student, she was able to do this. So I think it's just amazing that she had the fortitude to carry it through and to make such an important and winning project.
VILES: The scientists said Intel agreed. They gave Lisa their highest award for young scientists, and a $50,000 scholarship. She won another scholarship from the United States Navy and Marine Corps, and hopes to attend college in New England.
Peter Viles, CNN, New Milford, Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And that's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, good night from New York.
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Interview With Commerce Secretary Don Evans>
