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Paula Zahn Now

Flu Vaccine Running Short; Police Violence in the Spotlight; Remembering Pearl Harbor

Aired December 05, 2003 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: "In Focus" tonight: Two U.S. drug companies say they have run out of flu vaccine and will not be able to meet the demand for flu shots in what could be one of worst flu season in year. Now the CDC is steeping in.
Pictures like these bring violent arrests into focus for millions across the nation; 11 years after the Rodney King beating, should police rethink the way they handle suspects?

And keeping the memories of the USS Arizona alive more than a half-century after Pearl Harbor.

Good evening. Welcome. Good to have you with us tonight, as we wrap up the week here.

Also head: more rough weather on the way tonight, as the season's first major snowstorm wallops the Northeast.

And new details about the murder of a federal prosecutor stabbed and left for dead in a Pennsylvania creek.

Plus, more questions in the Michael Jackson case, with reports that the brother of Jackson's accuser may be a witness to the alleged crime.

Also, presidential politics and what went on in the brainstorming session between John Kerry and Al Franken.

First, here's what you need to know right now.

The first major snowstorm of the season is in full force tonight. Blizzard-like conditions are stretching all along the East Coast. And it's just getting started, already major delays at the airports. Some areas are going to be hit by more than a foot of snow. Millions are bracing for what's shaping up to be a dangerous weather weekend.

Jason Carroll is standing by in New York, where the storm is hitting the city very hard.

Good evening, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good evening to you, Paula.

As you know, the snow started falling here in New York City late this morning. And it's still falling right now. It's somewhere of a gentle snow, but is in fact still falling. This is a city that was really prepared for the storm. They knew it coming and they prepared, this according to New York City's mayor, Michael Bloomberg.

Some 200,000 pounds of salt are ready to be used at any moment; 1,700 plows out on the road, ready to be used on the streets. This first storm of the season triggered winter storm warnings from eastern Ohio, north to Maine, and south all the way down to Virginia. The Southeast was hit with several inches of snow, making the roads down there especially treacherous for motorists.

The National Weather Service, though, says that the Southeast has probably seen the worst of the storm, at least at this point. The system is moving north toward New England. That region is expected to get hit around midnight tonight, cities like Boston expecting anywhere between 10 and 16 inches. If you're traveling throughout the area, through the region, you definitely want to check with your carrier first. Delays and cancellations expected as La Guardia, Newark, as well as, we're told, at Philadelphia Airport -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jason Carroll, you get another four inches, a hat may come in handy there tonight. Thanks for your tough duty out there.

CARROLL: All right.

ZAHN: Now we move on to the story of the federal prosecutor who was killed. Sources tell CNN Jonathan Luna was tortured. Luna's body was found yesterday in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. That is "In Focus" tonight.

Justice correspondent Kelli Arena joins us with the very latest from Washington.

Kelli, good evening. I know you have some brutal new details tonight on the murder of Jonathan Luna. Fill us in.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, investigators say that he was established 36 times. As you mentioned, there were torture wounds that were found on his torso.

His car was found idling by his body, with money and his cell phone still in the car. The interior of the car, investigators say, was drenched with blood. It was a pretty gruesome scene. And the coroner's report also shows that his lungs were filled with creek water, suggesting that perhaps there was also a drowning involved.

ZAHN: Now, has it been confirmed that in fact he made two stops before being killed and that his wallet was found in the car and robbery may ultimately be ruled out as a motive?

ARENA: Well, they haven't ruled out anything at this point, although several investigators have told us that it sure doesn't look like a robbery was the motive. At this point, Paula, they're looking into every possible scenario. Sources do confirm that he did make two stops along the way. They're able to do that through electronic tracking.

ZAHN: And what are the various theories that are being considered about why he in fact was murdered?

ARENA: Well, there are many theories.

And I can tell you that investigators are looking into past cases, doing interviews, obviously his personal life, possible relationships. In fact, the FBI put out a notice to the public, saying that they're seeking information to the crime. Anything is open. They are open to suggestion at this point, Paula -- no strong leads at this time.

ZAHN: So is the suspicion shifting away from the two rappers he had just handled a plea bargain for?

ARENA: Privately, Paula, investigators are saying that it just doesn't add up that either one of these men would be involved.

But there's always the question that someone who knew them was involved. So there are no doors being closed at this point. Again, I say everything is up for grabs.

ZAHN: Kelli Arena, thanks so much for that update.

Now, the murder of a federal prosecutor is extremely rare, but it is a job fraught with danger. Assistant U.S. attorneys often handle high-profile cases involving dangerous defendants.

Regular contributor and our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin knows the job from the inside. He himself worked as a federal prosecutor. And he joins us live from Davie, Florida.

Good evening, Jeffrey.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: What kind of shockwaves does this send through the legal community?

TOOBIN: It's really just so awful.

Two years ago, Thomas Wales, a wonderful prosecutor in Seattle, was murdered. And this is the first one since then. Fortunately, it's very rare. But those of us who are federal prosecutors recognize that this is always a risk. And just to state the obvious, federal prosecutors are lawyers. They don't carry guns. They're not trained in self-defense. This is a courtroom and investigative job.

And so it is just a very different thing to become involved, to become a target. And it's something we're aware of. It doesn't happen very often, but it's always a background concern.

ZAHN: What do you think are the risks that most federal prosecutors accept are part of the job?

TOOBIN: Well, I think everyone recognizes, at least in theory, that that risk is out there. But, for a long time, there were sort of rules of the game. And this was especially true in organized crime cases, sort of old- fashioned mafia cases, that mafia defendants and their associates never went after prosecutors. That historically had been the case. And there was some comfort in that. I think they were sort of rational actors. And they knew that the retribution would be far worse than any satisfaction they might get.

Plus, it wouldn't really stop any case against them. Now you're dealing with, for want of a better term, unorganized criminals, really desperate criminals, who have no sense of the rules of the game. And those are the kind of people who are the most dangerous and the most irrational.

ZAHN: What kind of protection is offered on the job?

TOOBIN: Well, sometimes protection is offered.

I knew a federal prosecutor -- I worked in the Brooklyn U.S. attorney's office. In the Manhattan U.S. attorney's office, there was a prosecutor there who not only had 24-hour protection, but he was actually moved out of his apartment and moved into someone else -- moved into an entirely different apartment. Plus, this protection continued after he left the U.S. attorney's office.

So law enforcement takes these threats kind of very seriously. But, obviously, there's not always early warning. And sometimes, nothing can be done.

ZAHN: So how much fear is there tonight in the legal community?

TOOBIN: I don't think there is a lot of fear day to day.

A lot of federal prosecuting, the kind of crime I prosecuted was mostly white-collar crime. And that is not the kind of crime that generates these kind of threats. However, in recent years, federal law enforcement has moved more into violent crime, gun violations, drug violations, organized crime, racketeering. Those kind of cases generate more direct threats to prosecutors. And it's something everyone is aware of. But I don't think it's a day-to-day concern for most people.

ZAHN: Jeffrey Toobin, happily away from New York during the blizzard, down in Florida, there for us this evening.

TOOBIN: Stuck. Yes, right.

ZAHN: Thanks, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: See you.

ZAHN: And with the winter weather comes news tonight that...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WOMAN SNEEZING) (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: God bless you -- that the two makers of flu shots have run out of vaccine. They say recent outbreaks of the flu is responsible for the shortage. How could this happen? What does it mean to you?

Joining us now, Dr. Marc Siegel, an internist at New York University School of Medicine.

I think I'm going to get sick just hearing all those folks sneeze.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: I hope not.

ZAHN: How can this happen? How do we run out of vaccine?

SIEGEL: Well, the manufacturers of the vaccine are looking at last year when they make a vaccine for this year.

They made about 85 million doses this year, looking at how many outbreaks there were last year. Now we're publicizing the fact that there's been a lot of flu. And people are worried about it. It looks like it's going to be a bad flu season.

ZAHN: Bad flu?

SIEGEL: Yes.

ZAHN: Isn't it predicted to be one of the deadliest ones on record?

SIEGEL: Well, no, that would be a pandemic. Really, it is going to be a bad year. That's what we think so far.

We have ways of telling that. It was bad year in South America. It's influenza A, which is worse than influenza B. The last two years were mild by comparison, influenza B. This is a more deadly bug. But flu is nasty to begin with. Even in a good year, we hospitalize over 100,000 people with this.

ZAHN: So how dangerous can this vaccination shortage be?

SIEGEL: Well, keep in mind, Paula, that, right now, there really isn't a shortage yet, because physicians ordered this vaccine back in the fall.

As far as I know, they're fully stocked. They've been giving the vaccine out. Because the manufacturer is out, I'm concerned that the physicians will then run out. So it's important that the right people get the vaccine. But the physicians that I know still have it. We ordered plenty this year. Two years ago, we had a shortage and we did run out. We had to go asking each other to borrow some. This year and last year, we ordered a lot. That's one of the reasons the manufacturers are out.

ZAHN: So the patient who is sitting out there tonight a little bit confused about whether they should be concerned about this at all, what's the bottom line here?

SIEGEL: OK, here's what they have to do.

First of all, anybody that's over the age of 50 should have this vaccine, asthma, serious illness, COPD, pregnant women, people that are taking care of elderly people or infirm people with chronic illness should get the vaccine. The vaccine doesn't exactly cover the bug we have this year, but it's cross-protective, so that, if you got the flu anyway, it would be a milder case.

ZAHN: And you're fairly confident with the amount of supplies that doctors often keep?

SIEGEL: So far.

ZAHN: Demand will be OK?

SIEGEL: So far.

I'm not saying that the doctors couldn't run out. That's why the right groups have to get the vaccine. Also, the other problem is, if doctors do run out, it takes too long to make more. It takes three or four months to make more.

ZAHN: And by then, the flu season is over.

SIEGEL: Right. So I do have concern, but, right now, we still have plenty of the vaccine.

ZAHN: Any other options, aside from the flu vaccine?

SIEGEL: Most importantly is to isolate people with the flu and also to wash hands frequently. That's even more important than the vaccine. If you can figure out that you have the flu, stay away from people.

Now, the other side of the coin is that everybody that has a sniffle thinks they have the flu. Most of the time, they just have a cold virus and don't haven't flu. So I tell people, don't panic just because you have a sniffle. The flu usually comes on suddenly. That's why they used to call it the grip, chills, fever, muscle aches. We've seen reported some atypical cases, with a lot of gastrointestinal symptoms.

Still, this flu, for the most part, would have respiratory symptoms, muscle aches, fever and headaches. That's what you look for.

ZAHN: It makes me miserable just thinking about it.

Dr. Marc Siegel, thanks for putting that into -- that would be perspective -- for us this evening.

SIEGEL: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: The U.S. Army vs. Captain James Yee. The allegations against him range from taking classified information to receiving and storing Internet porn. Is he the Muslim chaplain a threat to national security?

Plus, the Michael Jackson case. Reports say the prosecution may have an eyewitness. He happens to be the accuser's brother.

And the race for the White House. One Democrat is already trailing early on in the contest and looking for help from Al Franken.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Army Captain James Yee is due in a military court at Fort Benning, Georgia, on Monday. The former Muslim chaplain at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is now accused of adultery and possessing pornography. Yee's supporters say the new charges are a ploy by the government to save face.

Tonight, Yee's attorney speaks right here for the first time on national television.

Eugene Fidell joins us live from our Washington bureau.

Thanks so much for joining us, sir.

EUGENE FIDELL, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES YEE: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: Let's start off by reviewing what your client was originally charged with: taking classified information from Guantanamo and improperly transporting it. Then, last week, more charges were added: making a false statement, storing pornography on a government computer, and adultery. Why these news charges?

FIDELL: Well, it's really hard to understand why the government is pursuing these charges.

They're all trivial charges. They're not the type of offense that is customarily brought before a court-martial. And particularly when you see a charge of adultery being leveled, in the year 2003, it just trivializes the entire system. And people who are familiar with the military justice process are really very upset that their system is being used to prosecute charges like these. They're silly. And it's a pointless prosecution.

ZAHN: I hear what you're saying about these latest charges, but I want you to focus in on the first charge, which was your client being accused of taking classified information from Guantanamo and improperly transporting it. You're not saying that's a trivial charge, are you?

FIDELL: What I'm saying is, those charges are charges of violations of the regulation on how you're supposed to label and handle classified information.

In this case, there are issues as to what information they're talking about, since the government has yet to give me a security clearance, so I can examine what they claim is classified. And then the question about whether the information has been properly handled is the type of thing that military lawyers will tell you is typically handled administratively, either by being chewed out or getting a reprimand or nonjudicial punishment. They're not the type of offense that is ever brought to a court-martial, unless there's some huge conflagration, some major aggravating factor. And there isn't here.

ZAHN: I know you say you haven't been exposed to the classified information, but can you answer this question in a general sense what your client's defense would be for that first charge?

FIDELL: Well, certainly, we're going to question the fact that -- as to whether any of this information is in fact classified.

It's my understanding that none of the documents that the government claims he improperly failed to label or carry in the right manner was actually stamped classified, and then if the underlying information itself was of a nature that makes it classified.

I think it's very interesting a development that happened within the last week. And let me, if I may, just explain it. Last week, the prosecutors delivered to my house in suburban Washington a set of evidence relating to this case. They put it through the mail slot in my home. Three days later, they called me when I was on an airplane ready to go down to Fort Benning and said, you better get off the plane because a security issue has arisen.

It turns out that some of the stuff that we may have put through the mail slot in your home and left there may have been classified. So we're calling the hearing off for a week and we have to sort of regroup. The following day, four Army representatives showed up at my law firm, two attorneys and two security people. They asked that we return to them 15 pages of information. And we did that, obviously.

However, that evolution suggests to me that, if the government doesn't itself know, if its own lawyers don't know what's classified and what isn't, what has to be marked, what doesn't have to be marked, what can be put through a mail slot and what can't be put through a mail slot, how can they expect a chaplain to know those kinds of things?

ZAHN: All right, I need one really quick answer here.

I understand what you're saying about this being, you're alleging, a trivial pursuit of your client. But why would the government go to these lengths that it's going to now?

FIDELL: A couple of reasons. No. 1, to save face, because the actual originals charges that were made public by an anonymous government law enforcement source quoted in "The Washington Times" was that that he was charged with espionage, aiding the enemy and a variety of very heinous charges.

Those charges fell apart. And, instead, my client was kept in jail for 76 days in pretrial confinement on order violations and on these allegations of having failed to comply the regulation governing classified information. It's a face-saving and basically vindictive prosecution.

ZAHN: We're going to have to leave it there this evening.

Eugene Fidell, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

FIDELL: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: Saving the memories and the monument to those who fell at Pearl Harbor, a very special look at the USS Arizona.

And violent arrests, police tactics. What have images like these taught American law enforcement?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: On Sunday, Americans will mark the 62nd anniversary of the air attack that plunged the U.S. in World War II. Thousands still make their way to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, to see firsthand the remains of the USS Arizona. Well, now the U.S. Navy and National Park Service are working to make sure the sunken battleship remains a monument to those who gave their lives.

Frank Buckley has more on the underwear preservation project.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been 62 years since the sinking of the USS Arizona. And it is still there in just a few feet of water just through this porthole to the past. Here, the signs of everyday life, a phone, a uniform still hanging where a sailor placed it just so, still speak to the loss of so many lives.

DAVID CONLIN, UNDERWATER ARCHAEOLOGIST: Each of the things that we see on the wreck reminds us that there was 1,177 individuals that died.

BUCKLEY: But it is the effort to keep the story of the USS Arizona alive that brings these divers...

CONLIN: This is our robot submarine.

BUCKLEY: From the Underwater Resources Center of the National Park Service in Santa Fe, New Mexico, to the waters of Pearl Harbor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men were standing on these tile floors. This is an area that they would have been eating, cooking, on December 7.

BUCKLEY: The Park Service is documenting how well the ship is holding up after six decades underwater, these images deep within the ship providing clues about corrosion within the Arizona.

(on camera): Those interior views of Arizona are made possible by this remotely operated vehicle. But this ROV is more than a camera carrier. It also delivers this probe, designed to take scientific measurements inside the ship that are as important as the images. (voice-over): The findings will help the Park Service to predict how long Arizona will remain intact.

MARK RUSSELL, U.S. ARIZONA PRESERVATION PROJECT: Sending the ROV inside of the ship is not just to take compelling pictures, but is to gather important scientific data so that we can help preserve the ship.

BUCKLEY: So that the USS Arizona can continue to speak to generations to come.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Pearl Harbor, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Caught on tape, suspects and police literally in hand-to- hand combat. Should authorities rethink their strategy when it comes to making arrests of violent subjects?

Also, our Richard Quest spinning his way from London to New York. Go, Richard, go.

And Monday: the progress paradox, how life gets better while people feel worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Here at the bottom of the hour, here's what you need to know right now.

Two more shootings have been linked to the sniper attacks -- or alleged sniper attacks -- near Columbus, Ohio. That makes a total of 14 shootings in all. One woman has been killed in the attacks.

With us live from Columbus is Bruce Cadwallader. He is a reporter with "The Columbus Dispatch."

What's the latest from there? Good evening.

BRUCE CADWALLADER, "THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH": Good evening, Paula.

What started out as an optimistic day turned sour when we learned two of these shootings occurred since Gail Knisley's death November 25. One of those bullets has been linked to the gun used to kill Gail Knisley. And that has investigators very downbeat today.

ZAHN: Are investigators confirming tonight whether they think they're looking at one shooter or a couple of shooters here?

CADWALLADER: They're still investigating every report that comes in, every bullet fragment. But from the experts we've spoken to, they're still leaning toward one person or possibly a group of teens. But they're saying mostly one person.

ZAHN: But, Bruce, they're not yet calling this a sniper case, are they?

CADWALLADER: They came as close as possible today, when they said that anyone who shoots at a moving car at 65 miles per hour has criminal intent on their mind.

ZAHN: So, as a result of these now latest two shootings being tied to the spree, how are they beefing up security there?

CADWALLADER: There is going to be a 24-hour presence on the freeways. The task force has brought in an FBI profiler from Quantico, Virginia. And, as you know, they are working with ATF agents and a local crime lab to analyze those bullets as fast as possible.

ZAHN: Clearly, a very good reason why a lot of folks living there are very concerned.

Bruce Cadwallader, thank you very much for the update.

CADWALLADER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Now, when police are called in to subdue a suspect, the actions they take sometimes seem pretty tough. And when there's a videotape of what is happening, it can seem that they're acting with brutality, even if the situation demands a strong response.

Mike Brooks has been looking into what happens when cops have to use force.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): When you hear about use of force and police, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Most likely Rodney King, 1993. Los Angeles police officers used batons and physical force, attempting to take King into custody and tasers to shock King. According to police, the tasers had no effect.

The King tape is just one of many. In 1994, a man on the 14th Street Bridge in Washington threatened to set off a bomb. After hours of negotiations, officers creep up behind the man and throw a net over him, taking him into custody without using any force. The net was new technology, an attempt to avoid using batons. But D.C. police still received complaints that using the net made it look like they were capturing an animal.

Batons remain the most common law enforcement tool, in this 1996 video, California police attempt to detain illegal immigrants, and again in Cincinnati last week, when police struggle to subdue Nathaniel Jones. Police claimed they used pepper spray on Jones, resorting to batons only when it had no effect. But videotapes such as these are disturbing to most. And the question remains, is law enforcement doing all it can in terms of technology to serve and protect?

Mike Brooks, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Now on to our debate.

Regardless of whether Cincinnati police acted appropriately when they tried to arrest Nathaniel Jones last Sunday, his beating raises some important questions how police in the United States handle suspects in these situations.

With me now is Scotty Johnson of the Sentinel Police Association. He joins us from Cincinnati. Also in Cincinnati is Cecil Thomas. He is the executive director of the Cincinnati Human Relations Committee and a former police officer of some 27 years.

Welcome, gentlemen.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Cecil, we're going to start with you this evening and review some of that videotape that by now our audience is pretty familiar with. What do you see?

CECIL THOMAS, CINCINNATI HUMAN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, first of all, there's no defense for a spontaneous reaction. There's no real set policy to deal with a spontaneous aggressive reaction from citizens.

ZAHN: Is this abuse, when you look at what you're seeing on camera?

THOMAS: No, I don't see abuse in this. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of police tactical training and how to deal with an individual of this nature.

ZAHN: And you say they shouldn't be doing this?

THOMAS: Well, I'm saying that they have to try to get the individual under control. It looks rough. It looks terrible. However, if you know anything about police tactics, an individual that has just attacked you, the first thing you want to do is try to get the individual until control. And you want to take him to the ground.

Simply, that demobilizes his maneuvering. The next thing you want to do at that point is keep him on the ground and get him handcuffed. If the individual continues to struggle and tries to get back up, you are going to have to use whatever force is necessary to get him back to that point.

ZAHN: All right, let's bring Scotty into the discussion.

So, Scotty, at that point, were nightsticks the only options for these police officers?

SCOTTY JOHNSON, SENTINEL POLICE ASSOCIATION: I think it appears that -- well, first of all, it's unfortunate that we are not able to see the entire situation. We're not able to see everything that took place with this incident. But after...

ZAHN: It looks like they're beating the heck out of him.

JOHNSON: Right.

ZAHN: Right?

JOHNSON: Right. It's never pretty when the police have to use that type of force. I'm not going to even act like it is.

What we don't see is initially what triggered that type of response from Skip. I went to high school with him, and I never knew him to be that type of violent guy. Periodically, I've seen him since we have left high school, even though it was many, many years ago. He was always the same Skip. But what we don't see is what triggered that type of response from Skip.

Initially, I think, any time police officers come into contact with people, you do want to see some compassion and some patience exercised, if at all possible.

ZAHN: But he's down on the ground at this point, right? Did he still represent a threat to these police officers at this point?

JOHNSON: Well, and it all depends on what the police officers are perceiving. It doesn't appear that he's a threat. And, even at one time, it appears he's raising his hands in a surrender mode.

But I think, along those same lines, the initial approach, in my years of service, has dictated how the outcome was going to be.

ZAHN: Cecil, talk to us a little bit about the more modern methods that police have access to. Would a taser gun have made any difference here?

THOMAS: Well, a taser gun would have made a difference, had they had the opportunity to use a taser gun.

Obviously, there are other methods. We have the mental -- the officer that is trained to handle the mentally ill, if he had arrived on the scene, the first officer, and maybe to talk to the individual. However -- now, let me clarify. What we see is, where are they striking the individual?

The officers are trained to not strike the head with the PR-24. They're trained to strike certain areas of the body that demobilizes an individual, especially the muscle areas of the calves and upper parts of the body. And when I watched the tape, I watched as the officers were careful not to strike directly into the head area. And they were trying not to -- at least, I should say, they were trying not to hit the head area.

But you've got to be mindful that these officers are in a life- or-death struggle, because once the struggle begins, that firearm is the most deadly item involved there. And that becomes anybody's firearm when you're in a struggle like that. It does not look pretty at all. However -- and I don't like to see that, but when your mind -- what's going through the minds of the officers is survival at this point.

And it just looks terrible. But that PR-24, it's not as solid heavy piece of metal. It's designed to -- it stings and it's also used to restrain.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen.

Cecil Thomas, Scotty Johnson, thank you for both of your perspectives this evening. We appreciate it.

THOMAS: Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

ZAHN: A brainstorming session between John Kerry and Al Franken, definitely not presidential politics as usual.

And a Quest, as in Richard Quest, to see how far a tourist dollar really goes in the Big Apple.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The snow and cold in the Northeast haven't taken any of the heat off the coming race for the Democratic nomination to be president.

It's time for us to take a look at what's happening with the candidates as they head for the first primaries early next year. Joining me here in New York, Jeff Greenfield, CNN's senior political analyst, along with contributor Joe Klein.

Good evening, Joe.

JOE KLEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi.

ZAHN: And from Florida, we have senior political correspondence Candy Crowley joining us, a lot of senior political correspondents with us this evening.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: We're old.

ZAHN: We love having veterans around.

GREENFIELD: We're old. That's all.

KLEIN: I'm just a junior political correspondent.

ZAHN: I know. You didn't hear me put senior after you name.

Jeff, first off, you spent some time with John Kerry yesterday, a lot of reports that his campaign is feeling desperate right now. No votes have been cast. How desperate can those folks really be?

GREENFIELD: Well, the campaign is troubled, and he knows it.

He met, actually, at Al Franken's apartment yesterday. Al has been helping various Democrats. But he met with about 15 or 20 journalists. And what was clear is, he recognizes he's had adversity. He is mostly trying to come up with a more concise and politically effective explanation of his vote for the use of force in Iraq resolution, which really alienated the more liberal base of the party and gave Howard Dean an opening.

There were times when it took Kerry like 10 minutes on the stump to explain it. He's got an answer now that is clearer, at least, and sharper. Whether that is enough to reclaim any high ground politically, I don't know. The only thing I do think is, the idea that you're supposed to drop out of the race when nobody's voted is a little much.

ZAHN: Good point.

Joe Klein, you were making the point that -- earlier this week, John Kerry spoke attention Council on Foreign Relations. And you thought he delivered one of the crispest addresses he's had so far on foreign policy, and yet he keeps on sinking in New Hampshire.

KLEIN: Well, that's his natural form.

John Kerry is a very thoughtful, very nuanced observer of foreign policy. And he gave, as I said, the best foreign policy speech I've heard all year. But that's not life on the stump. And, in some ways, the Council on Foreign Relations is this elite, archaic, old-fashioned institution. And Kerry's campaign has seemed very much like that. It's seemed stale.

He's a well-known quantity in New Hampshire. He comes from right next door in Massachusetts. And his numbers keep on going down and down and down. No votes have been cast yet, to be sure, but I think his sell-by date is passing pretty quickly in New Hampshire.

ZAHN: Now, Candy, I want you to jump through some geography for us this evening. You're down in Florida, the importance of what the Democrats are doing there, and then take us to Iowa.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, in the primary stages, Florida may be pretty moot by the time they get around to March 9. I think we'll probably have a candidate by then. So all these candidates are going to come down. And it will probably be only one left standing.

But Florida is Florida. Let's face it. And everybody remembers 2000. It is going to be huge in 2004 in the general election. None of them really thought they could skip this, though I can assure you they would all much rather be in either New Hampshire or Iowa, where those first two battles come.

In Iowa, you do get the sense -- and the polls sort of confirm that -- that, right now, the person standing between Dean, Howard Dean and the first two states is Richard Gephardt. He is trying to pull that one out, thinking he can bounce out of Iowa and at least slow Howard Dean, and then move doubt South, where a lot of the candidates think that the territory is a lot more friendly to them than it is to Howard Dean.

ZAHN: The broad view on the importance of New Hampshire and Iowa. Do they have undue influence over this process?

GREENFIELD: They have ridiculously undue influence. And the dirty little secret about Iowa that the nice people in Iowa -- who are very nice people -- never tell you, is, almost nobody votes in those caucuses.

About 8.5 percent of the eligible voters turned out, because you got to leave your home on a freezing night and sit in a school basement for four hours. At least in New Hampshire, also, unrepresentative, also incredibly overweighted, at least the turnout for a primary is heavy. Also, traditionally, Iowa has had almost nothing to say about who the nominee is. We hype it because it's the first thing we can count.

This year, I think Candy points to the critical point. Because one of Dean's presumed strongest opponents has to make a stand in Iowa, where he won in 1988, it actually may have some significance.

ZAHN: Final thought tonight, Joe, on what we should be looking for in the next couple of days.

KLEIN: Jeff and I have been campaigning for years for the Hawaii caucuses to start the process.

(LAUGHTER)

KLEIN: But there is some value in starting this thing in small states, where the candidates have to meet the voters almost one by one by one and convince them face-to-face. It's a good way for them to hone their skills and a good way for us to learn who they are.

And so it may not be Iowa and New Hampshire as the best places. Maybe they should -- the small states should rotate. But I think that having it start in a small place, maybe a warmer small place, is the best idea.

ZAHN: All right. All right. You may be dreaming Hawaii, Joe, but you know that's not in the budget for us, right?

GREENFIELD: We'll pay our own way.

KLEIN: We'll row.

(LAUGHTER)

CROWLEY: Speak for yourself.

(LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: All right, Jeff, Joe, Candy, thank you for all of your insights this evening.

Does the prosecution in the Michael Jackson case have a eyewitness?

And a dollar's a dollar, unless you're visiting Europe these days. Our Richard Quest shows us how far a buck goes when you have a weak dollar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The U.S. dollar hit a regular low today against the euro. In fact, it was the sixth day in a row that that has happened. Against European currencies, the dollar is off by 15 percent for the year. That is bad news, of course, for U.S. travelers overseas, and good news for Europeans here, as our Richard Quest found out.

We gave him $100 to spend in London and $100 to spend here. And he joins us now to show us how he did.

ZAHN: Good evening to you.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.

Generosity, indeed, $100 in both. You often think of it as being the mighty dollar against all-comers, it will rule supreme. But it's sinking a bit like a stone at the moment, which is excellent news, Paula, for Englishmen in New York like me, and dreadful for you when you go abroad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The problem becomes clear when I tried to change my money. My $100 down, at today's exchange rate, down to just 50 pounds to spend in London.

(voice-over): I can't afford expensive gifts. I'll have to settle for something cheap and nasty instead.

(on camera): I'm going to have to get around London; 10 percent of my money is already gone on a zone one and two tube ticket.

(voice-over): Lunchtime in London. That means pub grub. After paying for a pint, my money is dwindling.

(on camera): A ride on the fun fair, this is only going to cost me about $3 or $4.

(voice-over): After 3:00, afternoon tea. This one's a bargain.

(on camera): My day finishes with buying a ticket to the movies. After all that, I've got just 50 pence left on my money. How am I going to do in New York?

Here's another $100. Time now to see how far it's going to go in New York. But what a day I've chosen to try and spend my tourist dollars. (voice-over): There are souvenirs galore, taxis and police hats. That's just what I bought in London.

(on camera): My all-day subway card, it's pretty much the same price as in London, around $7.

(voice-over): Lunch in New York requires something large and grand, if you've got the stomach.

(on camera): Finally, forget afternoon tea. We're in America, happy hour instead. And with the money we've saved, we can afford plenty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And if you want the proof of the pudding, there is the 50 pence that I got left over from London, but I had $23 left here in the United States. So, great for tourism, dreadful for Americans going abroad.

ZAHN: So show us what you bought here.

QUEST: Ah, gifts.

ZAHN: I want to see you have any change left over.

QUEST: Right. Now, look at that. Isn't that classy? This is classy.

ZAHN: That's lovely, lovely.

QUEST: Yes, look at that.

ZAHN: Let me take that. I got to take that one home. Can I take that one home?

QUEST: Yes. And they actually go backwards and forward. Look.

ZAHN: Oh, good. They spin. Great. Thank you.

QUEST: One of those as well. What am I going to take home myself? Oh, and a London taxi.

ZAHN: All right, but don't you have samples of what you bought here. Or this is just all the stuff you bought over there?

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Well, there's the New York City taxi and the NYPD hat.

And the important thing here, Paula, is quite simply this. It's going to get worse. So I will have plenty more of this sort of stuff. Thank you very much. And you'll be left with nothing.

ZAHN: At all?

QUEST: At all.

ZAHN: I'll take your change back now.

QUEST: Do you want the dollars or the pounds?

ZAHN: I think I'll go with the dollars tonight.

QUEST: Yes.

ZAHN: Thank you, Richard. Travel well.

We're going to take a short break here.

And when we come back, we're going to take a look at the reports that the prosecution in the Michael Jackson child molestation case has an eyewitness to the alleged crime, the brother of his accuser.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: We turn now to the Michael Jackson investigation.

There are reports today that the brother of Jackson's accuser says he witnessed at least one act of molestation committed by the singer. Court TV reporter Diane Dimond is here to tell us what she has learned.

Welcome.

DIANE DIMOND, COURT TV: Thanks.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what's being reported, according to "The L.A. Times," that the 12-year-old brother of Mr. Jackson's accuser claims to have witnessed one act of molestation.

(CROSSTALK)

DIMOND: Actually, he's 12 years old now. At the time this happened, of course, he was younger.

Actually, I reported this last night, too, that the younger brother -- and Michael Jackson admits on this ABC documentary that: I have this boy in the bedroom with me and his brother in the bedroom with me. So Michael Jackson, being his own worst enemy, has put these two boys in his own bedroom. The younger brother says he woke up one night and he actually witnessed an act of molestation.

ZAHN: Are there details on this alleged of molestation?

DIMOND: Fondling, to be not too explicit.

ZAHN: Touched inappropriately.

DIMOND: Touched inappropriately.

ZAHN: You also reported that the sister might also be willing to come forward and talk. DIMOND: Right.

It's important to remember, this was not a mother who just said to her boy, OK, go to Neverland. The whole family went. It was older sister, the accuser and his younger brother and mom. But at Neverland, it's a big complex. And so you can stay in an outbuilding or in another wing. The sister was with mother, so she was not able to witness anything.

ZAHN: So what is it she can add to this investigation?

DIMOND: She noticed this odd behavior change in her middle brother, and she asked about it and got clued into what was going on.

Now, the little brother knows. The sister gets this contemporaneous report. Contemporaneous is important in lawyer-speak. It's not something he told her six months later. He told her at the time. But nobody told mom.

ZAHN: But I'm not understanding this. This boy was in poor health to begin with.

DIMOND: Yes.

ZAHN: So what's the discrepancy that she apparently witnessed, that she saw his health deteriorate?

DIMOND: He was always described as sort of a happy-go-lucky kid. He loved Neverland, always had a smile on his face when he was there. And, suddenly, his behavior turned sort of sullen and inward. And she wondered what was wrong, according to my sources. And she asked him. And he divulged to her, "Michael Jackson is touching me inappropriately."

ZAHN: When you begin to hear about the sister potentially talking, and you know the mother was there and the brother of the alleged accuser, does it add to a picture of a family trying to rake Michael Jackson over the coals?

DIMOND: Well, I think you make a very important point.

From a prosecutorial point, it's very rare to have an eyewitness to sex abuse, child sex abuse. And here, they say they have one, or my sources say they have one. However, the other side of that is the defense side: Wait a minute. If this mother could convince one boy to tell a story to try to make money, couldn't she convince another boy, her other son, to make money?

So, of course, there are two sides to every story. And we need to keep that in mind.

ZAHN: There is a complaint perhaps that the DA is dragging his feet in filing formal charges against Michael Jackson. What's going on there? What's the status of that?

DIMOND: I just don't believe that. I know that was reported in "The New York Times." I read it the other morning and was flabbergasted by it. That's the way they do things under California law. Look how long it took to charge Robert Blake. It took them a year to charge Phil Spector. Under California law, you don't have to file charges right away. And they often don't. This DA is filing charges much quicker -- we expect them on the 15th or 16th of this month -- than those other two cases.

ZAHN: Finally, you were involved in the coverage of the case, the 1993 case, where charges were never actually brought against Michael Jackson. The case was settled out of court.

DIMOND: Right.

ZAHN: How concerned is the DA that that might happen again with this latest case?

DIMOND: Oh, I've asked that question over and over again at different stages in this development of this story. And every time, I'm met with, oh, we don't have to worry about that.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: They don't even think that's a remote possibility?

DIMOND: They don't think that this family is after money. They think this family is after justice. And I remind them that there is a California law that would compel the victim to testify. They say, we don't need it.

ZAHN: Diane Dimond, thanks for dropping by.

DIMOND: You're welcome.

ZAHN: Enjoy the weekend.

We appreciate your all being with us tonight. That wraps it up for all of us here.

Monday: In an era when we make more money, have more luxury, live longer with better health care, why are Americans so unhappy? We'll try answering that question.

But, in the meantime, we hope you have a great, relaxing weekend.

Good night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Spotlight; Remembering Pearl Harbor>


Aired December 5, 2003 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: "In Focus" tonight: Two U.S. drug companies say they have run out of flu vaccine and will not be able to meet the demand for flu shots in what could be one of worst flu season in year. Now the CDC is steeping in.
Pictures like these bring violent arrests into focus for millions across the nation; 11 years after the Rodney King beating, should police rethink the way they handle suspects?

And keeping the memories of the USS Arizona alive more than a half-century after Pearl Harbor.

Good evening. Welcome. Good to have you with us tonight, as we wrap up the week here.

Also head: more rough weather on the way tonight, as the season's first major snowstorm wallops the Northeast.

And new details about the murder of a federal prosecutor stabbed and left for dead in a Pennsylvania creek.

Plus, more questions in the Michael Jackson case, with reports that the brother of Jackson's accuser may be a witness to the alleged crime.

Also, presidential politics and what went on in the brainstorming session between John Kerry and Al Franken.

First, here's what you need to know right now.

The first major snowstorm of the season is in full force tonight. Blizzard-like conditions are stretching all along the East Coast. And it's just getting started, already major delays at the airports. Some areas are going to be hit by more than a foot of snow. Millions are bracing for what's shaping up to be a dangerous weather weekend.

Jason Carroll is standing by in New York, where the storm is hitting the city very hard.

Good evening, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good evening to you, Paula.

As you know, the snow started falling here in New York City late this morning. And it's still falling right now. It's somewhere of a gentle snow, but is in fact still falling. This is a city that was really prepared for the storm. They knew it coming and they prepared, this according to New York City's mayor, Michael Bloomberg.

Some 200,000 pounds of salt are ready to be used at any moment; 1,700 plows out on the road, ready to be used on the streets. This first storm of the season triggered winter storm warnings from eastern Ohio, north to Maine, and south all the way down to Virginia. The Southeast was hit with several inches of snow, making the roads down there especially treacherous for motorists.

The National Weather Service, though, says that the Southeast has probably seen the worst of the storm, at least at this point. The system is moving north toward New England. That region is expected to get hit around midnight tonight, cities like Boston expecting anywhere between 10 and 16 inches. If you're traveling throughout the area, through the region, you definitely want to check with your carrier first. Delays and cancellations expected as La Guardia, Newark, as well as, we're told, at Philadelphia Airport -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jason Carroll, you get another four inches, a hat may come in handy there tonight. Thanks for your tough duty out there.

CARROLL: All right.

ZAHN: Now we move on to the story of the federal prosecutor who was killed. Sources tell CNN Jonathan Luna was tortured. Luna's body was found yesterday in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. That is "In Focus" tonight.

Justice correspondent Kelli Arena joins us with the very latest from Washington.

Kelli, good evening. I know you have some brutal new details tonight on the murder of Jonathan Luna. Fill us in.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, investigators say that he was established 36 times. As you mentioned, there were torture wounds that were found on his torso.

His car was found idling by his body, with money and his cell phone still in the car. The interior of the car, investigators say, was drenched with blood. It was a pretty gruesome scene. And the coroner's report also shows that his lungs were filled with creek water, suggesting that perhaps there was also a drowning involved.

ZAHN: Now, has it been confirmed that in fact he made two stops before being killed and that his wallet was found in the car and robbery may ultimately be ruled out as a motive?

ARENA: Well, they haven't ruled out anything at this point, although several investigators have told us that it sure doesn't look like a robbery was the motive. At this point, Paula, they're looking into every possible scenario. Sources do confirm that he did make two stops along the way. They're able to do that through electronic tracking.

ZAHN: And what are the various theories that are being considered about why he in fact was murdered?

ARENA: Well, there are many theories.

And I can tell you that investigators are looking into past cases, doing interviews, obviously his personal life, possible relationships. In fact, the FBI put out a notice to the public, saying that they're seeking information to the crime. Anything is open. They are open to suggestion at this point, Paula -- no strong leads at this time.

ZAHN: So is the suspicion shifting away from the two rappers he had just handled a plea bargain for?

ARENA: Privately, Paula, investigators are saying that it just doesn't add up that either one of these men would be involved.

But there's always the question that someone who knew them was involved. So there are no doors being closed at this point. Again, I say everything is up for grabs.

ZAHN: Kelli Arena, thanks so much for that update.

Now, the murder of a federal prosecutor is extremely rare, but it is a job fraught with danger. Assistant U.S. attorneys often handle high-profile cases involving dangerous defendants.

Regular contributor and our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin knows the job from the inside. He himself worked as a federal prosecutor. And he joins us live from Davie, Florida.

Good evening, Jeffrey.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: What kind of shockwaves does this send through the legal community?

TOOBIN: It's really just so awful.

Two years ago, Thomas Wales, a wonderful prosecutor in Seattle, was murdered. And this is the first one since then. Fortunately, it's very rare. But those of us who are federal prosecutors recognize that this is always a risk. And just to state the obvious, federal prosecutors are lawyers. They don't carry guns. They're not trained in self-defense. This is a courtroom and investigative job.

And so it is just a very different thing to become involved, to become a target. And it's something we're aware of. It doesn't happen very often, but it's always a background concern.

ZAHN: What do you think are the risks that most federal prosecutors accept are part of the job?

TOOBIN: Well, I think everyone recognizes, at least in theory, that that risk is out there. But, for a long time, there were sort of rules of the game. And this was especially true in organized crime cases, sort of old- fashioned mafia cases, that mafia defendants and their associates never went after prosecutors. That historically had been the case. And there was some comfort in that. I think they were sort of rational actors. And they knew that the retribution would be far worse than any satisfaction they might get.

Plus, it wouldn't really stop any case against them. Now you're dealing with, for want of a better term, unorganized criminals, really desperate criminals, who have no sense of the rules of the game. And those are the kind of people who are the most dangerous and the most irrational.

ZAHN: What kind of protection is offered on the job?

TOOBIN: Well, sometimes protection is offered.

I knew a federal prosecutor -- I worked in the Brooklyn U.S. attorney's office. In the Manhattan U.S. attorney's office, there was a prosecutor there who not only had 24-hour protection, but he was actually moved out of his apartment and moved into someone else -- moved into an entirely different apartment. Plus, this protection continued after he left the U.S. attorney's office.

So law enforcement takes these threats kind of very seriously. But, obviously, there's not always early warning. And sometimes, nothing can be done.

ZAHN: So how much fear is there tonight in the legal community?

TOOBIN: I don't think there is a lot of fear day to day.

A lot of federal prosecuting, the kind of crime I prosecuted was mostly white-collar crime. And that is not the kind of crime that generates these kind of threats. However, in recent years, federal law enforcement has moved more into violent crime, gun violations, drug violations, organized crime, racketeering. Those kind of cases generate more direct threats to prosecutors. And it's something everyone is aware of. But I don't think it's a day-to-day concern for most people.

ZAHN: Jeffrey Toobin, happily away from New York during the blizzard, down in Florida, there for us this evening.

TOOBIN: Stuck. Yes, right.

ZAHN: Thanks, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: See you.

ZAHN: And with the winter weather comes news tonight that...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WOMAN SNEEZING) (END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: God bless you -- that the two makers of flu shots have run out of vaccine. They say recent outbreaks of the flu is responsible for the shortage. How could this happen? What does it mean to you?

Joining us now, Dr. Marc Siegel, an internist at New York University School of Medicine.

I think I'm going to get sick just hearing all those folks sneeze.

DR. MARC SIEGEL, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: I hope not.

ZAHN: How can this happen? How do we run out of vaccine?

SIEGEL: Well, the manufacturers of the vaccine are looking at last year when they make a vaccine for this year.

They made about 85 million doses this year, looking at how many outbreaks there were last year. Now we're publicizing the fact that there's been a lot of flu. And people are worried about it. It looks like it's going to be a bad flu season.

ZAHN: Bad flu?

SIEGEL: Yes.

ZAHN: Isn't it predicted to be one of the deadliest ones on record?

SIEGEL: Well, no, that would be a pandemic. Really, it is going to be a bad year. That's what we think so far.

We have ways of telling that. It was bad year in South America. It's influenza A, which is worse than influenza B. The last two years were mild by comparison, influenza B. This is a more deadly bug. But flu is nasty to begin with. Even in a good year, we hospitalize over 100,000 people with this.

ZAHN: So how dangerous can this vaccination shortage be?

SIEGEL: Well, keep in mind, Paula, that, right now, there really isn't a shortage yet, because physicians ordered this vaccine back in the fall.

As far as I know, they're fully stocked. They've been giving the vaccine out. Because the manufacturer is out, I'm concerned that the physicians will then run out. So it's important that the right people get the vaccine. But the physicians that I know still have it. We ordered plenty this year. Two years ago, we had a shortage and we did run out. We had to go asking each other to borrow some. This year and last year, we ordered a lot. That's one of the reasons the manufacturers are out.

ZAHN: So the patient who is sitting out there tonight a little bit confused about whether they should be concerned about this at all, what's the bottom line here?

SIEGEL: OK, here's what they have to do.

First of all, anybody that's over the age of 50 should have this vaccine, asthma, serious illness, COPD, pregnant women, people that are taking care of elderly people or infirm people with chronic illness should get the vaccine. The vaccine doesn't exactly cover the bug we have this year, but it's cross-protective, so that, if you got the flu anyway, it would be a milder case.

ZAHN: And you're fairly confident with the amount of supplies that doctors often keep?

SIEGEL: So far.

ZAHN: Demand will be OK?

SIEGEL: So far.

I'm not saying that the doctors couldn't run out. That's why the right groups have to get the vaccine. Also, the other problem is, if doctors do run out, it takes too long to make more. It takes three or four months to make more.

ZAHN: And by then, the flu season is over.

SIEGEL: Right. So I do have concern, but, right now, we still have plenty of the vaccine.

ZAHN: Any other options, aside from the flu vaccine?

SIEGEL: Most importantly is to isolate people with the flu and also to wash hands frequently. That's even more important than the vaccine. If you can figure out that you have the flu, stay away from people.

Now, the other side of the coin is that everybody that has a sniffle thinks they have the flu. Most of the time, they just have a cold virus and don't haven't flu. So I tell people, don't panic just because you have a sniffle. The flu usually comes on suddenly. That's why they used to call it the grip, chills, fever, muscle aches. We've seen reported some atypical cases, with a lot of gastrointestinal symptoms.

Still, this flu, for the most part, would have respiratory symptoms, muscle aches, fever and headaches. That's what you look for.

ZAHN: It makes me miserable just thinking about it.

Dr. Marc Siegel, thanks for putting that into -- that would be perspective -- for us this evening.

SIEGEL: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: The U.S. Army vs. Captain James Yee. The allegations against him range from taking classified information to receiving and storing Internet porn. Is he the Muslim chaplain a threat to national security?

Plus, the Michael Jackson case. Reports say the prosecution may have an eyewitness. He happens to be the accuser's brother.

And the race for the White House. One Democrat is already trailing early on in the contest and looking for help from Al Franken.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Army Captain James Yee is due in a military court at Fort Benning, Georgia, on Monday. The former Muslim chaplain at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is now accused of adultery and possessing pornography. Yee's supporters say the new charges are a ploy by the government to save face.

Tonight, Yee's attorney speaks right here for the first time on national television.

Eugene Fidell joins us live from our Washington bureau.

Thanks so much for joining us, sir.

EUGENE FIDELL, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES YEE: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: Let's start off by reviewing what your client was originally charged with: taking classified information from Guantanamo and improperly transporting it. Then, last week, more charges were added: making a false statement, storing pornography on a government computer, and adultery. Why these news charges?

FIDELL: Well, it's really hard to understand why the government is pursuing these charges.

They're all trivial charges. They're not the type of offense that is customarily brought before a court-martial. And particularly when you see a charge of adultery being leveled, in the year 2003, it just trivializes the entire system. And people who are familiar with the military justice process are really very upset that their system is being used to prosecute charges like these. They're silly. And it's a pointless prosecution.

ZAHN: I hear what you're saying about these latest charges, but I want you to focus in on the first charge, which was your client being accused of taking classified information from Guantanamo and improperly transporting it. You're not saying that's a trivial charge, are you?

FIDELL: What I'm saying is, those charges are charges of violations of the regulation on how you're supposed to label and handle classified information.

In this case, there are issues as to what information they're talking about, since the government has yet to give me a security clearance, so I can examine what they claim is classified. And then the question about whether the information has been properly handled is the type of thing that military lawyers will tell you is typically handled administratively, either by being chewed out or getting a reprimand or nonjudicial punishment. They're not the type of offense that is ever brought to a court-martial, unless there's some huge conflagration, some major aggravating factor. And there isn't here.

ZAHN: I know you say you haven't been exposed to the classified information, but can you answer this question in a general sense what your client's defense would be for that first charge?

FIDELL: Well, certainly, we're going to question the fact that -- as to whether any of this information is in fact classified.

It's my understanding that none of the documents that the government claims he improperly failed to label or carry in the right manner was actually stamped classified, and then if the underlying information itself was of a nature that makes it classified.

I think it's very interesting a development that happened within the last week. And let me, if I may, just explain it. Last week, the prosecutors delivered to my house in suburban Washington a set of evidence relating to this case. They put it through the mail slot in my home. Three days later, they called me when I was on an airplane ready to go down to Fort Benning and said, you better get off the plane because a security issue has arisen.

It turns out that some of the stuff that we may have put through the mail slot in your home and left there may have been classified. So we're calling the hearing off for a week and we have to sort of regroup. The following day, four Army representatives showed up at my law firm, two attorneys and two security people. They asked that we return to them 15 pages of information. And we did that, obviously.

However, that evolution suggests to me that, if the government doesn't itself know, if its own lawyers don't know what's classified and what isn't, what has to be marked, what doesn't have to be marked, what can be put through a mail slot and what can't be put through a mail slot, how can they expect a chaplain to know those kinds of things?

ZAHN: All right, I need one really quick answer here.

I understand what you're saying about this being, you're alleging, a trivial pursuit of your client. But why would the government go to these lengths that it's going to now?

FIDELL: A couple of reasons. No. 1, to save face, because the actual originals charges that were made public by an anonymous government law enforcement source quoted in "The Washington Times" was that that he was charged with espionage, aiding the enemy and a variety of very heinous charges.

Those charges fell apart. And, instead, my client was kept in jail for 76 days in pretrial confinement on order violations and on these allegations of having failed to comply the regulation governing classified information. It's a face-saving and basically vindictive prosecution.

ZAHN: We're going to have to leave it there this evening.

Eugene Fidell, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

FIDELL: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: Saving the memories and the monument to those who fell at Pearl Harbor, a very special look at the USS Arizona.

And violent arrests, police tactics. What have images like these taught American law enforcement?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: On Sunday, Americans will mark the 62nd anniversary of the air attack that plunged the U.S. in World War II. Thousands still make their way to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, to see firsthand the remains of the USS Arizona. Well, now the U.S. Navy and National Park Service are working to make sure the sunken battleship remains a monument to those who gave their lives.

Frank Buckley has more on the underwear preservation project.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been 62 years since the sinking of the USS Arizona. And it is still there in just a few feet of water just through this porthole to the past. Here, the signs of everyday life, a phone, a uniform still hanging where a sailor placed it just so, still speak to the loss of so many lives.

DAVID CONLIN, UNDERWATER ARCHAEOLOGIST: Each of the things that we see on the wreck reminds us that there was 1,177 individuals that died.

BUCKLEY: But it is the effort to keep the story of the USS Arizona alive that brings these divers...

CONLIN: This is our robot submarine.

BUCKLEY: From the Underwater Resources Center of the National Park Service in Santa Fe, New Mexico, to the waters of Pearl Harbor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men were standing on these tile floors. This is an area that they would have been eating, cooking, on December 7.

BUCKLEY: The Park Service is documenting how well the ship is holding up after six decades underwater, these images deep within the ship providing clues about corrosion within the Arizona.

(on camera): Those interior views of Arizona are made possible by this remotely operated vehicle. But this ROV is more than a camera carrier. It also delivers this probe, designed to take scientific measurements inside the ship that are as important as the images. (voice-over): The findings will help the Park Service to predict how long Arizona will remain intact.

MARK RUSSELL, U.S. ARIZONA PRESERVATION PROJECT: Sending the ROV inside of the ship is not just to take compelling pictures, but is to gather important scientific data so that we can help preserve the ship.

BUCKLEY: So that the USS Arizona can continue to speak to generations to come.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Pearl Harbor, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Caught on tape, suspects and police literally in hand-to- hand combat. Should authorities rethink their strategy when it comes to making arrests of violent subjects?

Also, our Richard Quest spinning his way from London to New York. Go, Richard, go.

And Monday: the progress paradox, how life gets better while people feel worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Here at the bottom of the hour, here's what you need to know right now.

Two more shootings have been linked to the sniper attacks -- or alleged sniper attacks -- near Columbus, Ohio. That makes a total of 14 shootings in all. One woman has been killed in the attacks.

With us live from Columbus is Bruce Cadwallader. He is a reporter with "The Columbus Dispatch."

What's the latest from there? Good evening.

BRUCE CADWALLADER, "THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH": Good evening, Paula.

What started out as an optimistic day turned sour when we learned two of these shootings occurred since Gail Knisley's death November 25. One of those bullets has been linked to the gun used to kill Gail Knisley. And that has investigators very downbeat today.

ZAHN: Are investigators confirming tonight whether they think they're looking at one shooter or a couple of shooters here?

CADWALLADER: They're still investigating every report that comes in, every bullet fragment. But from the experts we've spoken to, they're still leaning toward one person or possibly a group of teens. But they're saying mostly one person.

ZAHN: But, Bruce, they're not yet calling this a sniper case, are they?

CADWALLADER: They came as close as possible today, when they said that anyone who shoots at a moving car at 65 miles per hour has criminal intent on their mind.

ZAHN: So, as a result of these now latest two shootings being tied to the spree, how are they beefing up security there?

CADWALLADER: There is going to be a 24-hour presence on the freeways. The task force has brought in an FBI profiler from Quantico, Virginia. And, as you know, they are working with ATF agents and a local crime lab to analyze those bullets as fast as possible.

ZAHN: Clearly, a very good reason why a lot of folks living there are very concerned.

Bruce Cadwallader, thank you very much for the update.

CADWALLADER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Now, when police are called in to subdue a suspect, the actions they take sometimes seem pretty tough. And when there's a videotape of what is happening, it can seem that they're acting with brutality, even if the situation demands a strong response.

Mike Brooks has been looking into what happens when cops have to use force.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): When you hear about use of force and police, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Most likely Rodney King, 1993. Los Angeles police officers used batons and physical force, attempting to take King into custody and tasers to shock King. According to police, the tasers had no effect.

The King tape is just one of many. In 1994, a man on the 14th Street Bridge in Washington threatened to set off a bomb. After hours of negotiations, officers creep up behind the man and throw a net over him, taking him into custody without using any force. The net was new technology, an attempt to avoid using batons. But D.C. police still received complaints that using the net made it look like they were capturing an animal.

Batons remain the most common law enforcement tool, in this 1996 video, California police attempt to detain illegal immigrants, and again in Cincinnati last week, when police struggle to subdue Nathaniel Jones. Police claimed they used pepper spray on Jones, resorting to batons only when it had no effect. But videotapes such as these are disturbing to most. And the question remains, is law enforcement doing all it can in terms of technology to serve and protect?

Mike Brooks, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Now on to our debate.

Regardless of whether Cincinnati police acted appropriately when they tried to arrest Nathaniel Jones last Sunday, his beating raises some important questions how police in the United States handle suspects in these situations.

With me now is Scotty Johnson of the Sentinel Police Association. He joins us from Cincinnati. Also in Cincinnati is Cecil Thomas. He is the executive director of the Cincinnati Human Relations Committee and a former police officer of some 27 years.

Welcome, gentlemen.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Cecil, we're going to start with you this evening and review some of that videotape that by now our audience is pretty familiar with. What do you see?

CECIL THOMAS, CINCINNATI HUMAN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, first of all, there's no defense for a spontaneous reaction. There's no real set policy to deal with a spontaneous aggressive reaction from citizens.

ZAHN: Is this abuse, when you look at what you're seeing on camera?

THOMAS: No, I don't see abuse in this. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of police tactical training and how to deal with an individual of this nature.

ZAHN: And you say they shouldn't be doing this?

THOMAS: Well, I'm saying that they have to try to get the individual under control. It looks rough. It looks terrible. However, if you know anything about police tactics, an individual that has just attacked you, the first thing you want to do is try to get the individual until control. And you want to take him to the ground.

Simply, that demobilizes his maneuvering. The next thing you want to do at that point is keep him on the ground and get him handcuffed. If the individual continues to struggle and tries to get back up, you are going to have to use whatever force is necessary to get him back to that point.

ZAHN: All right, let's bring Scotty into the discussion.

So, Scotty, at that point, were nightsticks the only options for these police officers?

SCOTTY JOHNSON, SENTINEL POLICE ASSOCIATION: I think it appears that -- well, first of all, it's unfortunate that we are not able to see the entire situation. We're not able to see everything that took place with this incident. But after...

ZAHN: It looks like they're beating the heck out of him.

JOHNSON: Right.

ZAHN: Right?

JOHNSON: Right. It's never pretty when the police have to use that type of force. I'm not going to even act like it is.

What we don't see is initially what triggered that type of response from Skip. I went to high school with him, and I never knew him to be that type of violent guy. Periodically, I've seen him since we have left high school, even though it was many, many years ago. He was always the same Skip. But what we don't see is what triggered that type of response from Skip.

Initially, I think, any time police officers come into contact with people, you do want to see some compassion and some patience exercised, if at all possible.

ZAHN: But he's down on the ground at this point, right? Did he still represent a threat to these police officers at this point?

JOHNSON: Well, and it all depends on what the police officers are perceiving. It doesn't appear that he's a threat. And, even at one time, it appears he's raising his hands in a surrender mode.

But I think, along those same lines, the initial approach, in my years of service, has dictated how the outcome was going to be.

ZAHN: Cecil, talk to us a little bit about the more modern methods that police have access to. Would a taser gun have made any difference here?

THOMAS: Well, a taser gun would have made a difference, had they had the opportunity to use a taser gun.

Obviously, there are other methods. We have the mental -- the officer that is trained to handle the mentally ill, if he had arrived on the scene, the first officer, and maybe to talk to the individual. However -- now, let me clarify. What we see is, where are they striking the individual?

The officers are trained to not strike the head with the PR-24. They're trained to strike certain areas of the body that demobilizes an individual, especially the muscle areas of the calves and upper parts of the body. And when I watched the tape, I watched as the officers were careful not to strike directly into the head area. And they were trying not to -- at least, I should say, they were trying not to hit the head area.

But you've got to be mindful that these officers are in a life- or-death struggle, because once the struggle begins, that firearm is the most deadly item involved there. And that becomes anybody's firearm when you're in a struggle like that. It does not look pretty at all. However -- and I don't like to see that, but when your mind -- what's going through the minds of the officers is survival at this point.

And it just looks terrible. But that PR-24, it's not as solid heavy piece of metal. It's designed to -- it stings and it's also used to restrain.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen.

Cecil Thomas, Scotty Johnson, thank you for both of your perspectives this evening. We appreciate it.

THOMAS: Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

ZAHN: A brainstorming session between John Kerry and Al Franken, definitely not presidential politics as usual.

And a Quest, as in Richard Quest, to see how far a tourist dollar really goes in the Big Apple.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The snow and cold in the Northeast haven't taken any of the heat off the coming race for the Democratic nomination to be president.

It's time for us to take a look at what's happening with the candidates as they head for the first primaries early next year. Joining me here in New York, Jeff Greenfield, CNN's senior political analyst, along with contributor Joe Klein.

Good evening, Joe.

JOE KLEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi.

ZAHN: And from Florida, we have senior political correspondence Candy Crowley joining us, a lot of senior political correspondents with us this evening.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: We're old.

ZAHN: We love having veterans around.

GREENFIELD: We're old. That's all.

KLEIN: I'm just a junior political correspondent.

ZAHN: I know. You didn't hear me put senior after you name.

Jeff, first off, you spent some time with John Kerry yesterday, a lot of reports that his campaign is feeling desperate right now. No votes have been cast. How desperate can those folks really be?

GREENFIELD: Well, the campaign is troubled, and he knows it.

He met, actually, at Al Franken's apartment yesterday. Al has been helping various Democrats. But he met with about 15 or 20 journalists. And what was clear is, he recognizes he's had adversity. He is mostly trying to come up with a more concise and politically effective explanation of his vote for the use of force in Iraq resolution, which really alienated the more liberal base of the party and gave Howard Dean an opening.

There were times when it took Kerry like 10 minutes on the stump to explain it. He's got an answer now that is clearer, at least, and sharper. Whether that is enough to reclaim any high ground politically, I don't know. The only thing I do think is, the idea that you're supposed to drop out of the race when nobody's voted is a little much.

ZAHN: Good point.

Joe Klein, you were making the point that -- earlier this week, John Kerry spoke attention Council on Foreign Relations. And you thought he delivered one of the crispest addresses he's had so far on foreign policy, and yet he keeps on sinking in New Hampshire.

KLEIN: Well, that's his natural form.

John Kerry is a very thoughtful, very nuanced observer of foreign policy. And he gave, as I said, the best foreign policy speech I've heard all year. But that's not life on the stump. And, in some ways, the Council on Foreign Relations is this elite, archaic, old-fashioned institution. And Kerry's campaign has seemed very much like that. It's seemed stale.

He's a well-known quantity in New Hampshire. He comes from right next door in Massachusetts. And his numbers keep on going down and down and down. No votes have been cast yet, to be sure, but I think his sell-by date is passing pretty quickly in New Hampshire.

ZAHN: Now, Candy, I want you to jump through some geography for us this evening. You're down in Florida, the importance of what the Democrats are doing there, and then take us to Iowa.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, in the primary stages, Florida may be pretty moot by the time they get around to March 9. I think we'll probably have a candidate by then. So all these candidates are going to come down. And it will probably be only one left standing.

But Florida is Florida. Let's face it. And everybody remembers 2000. It is going to be huge in 2004 in the general election. None of them really thought they could skip this, though I can assure you they would all much rather be in either New Hampshire or Iowa, where those first two battles come.

In Iowa, you do get the sense -- and the polls sort of confirm that -- that, right now, the person standing between Dean, Howard Dean and the first two states is Richard Gephardt. He is trying to pull that one out, thinking he can bounce out of Iowa and at least slow Howard Dean, and then move doubt South, where a lot of the candidates think that the territory is a lot more friendly to them than it is to Howard Dean.

ZAHN: The broad view on the importance of New Hampshire and Iowa. Do they have undue influence over this process?

GREENFIELD: They have ridiculously undue influence. And the dirty little secret about Iowa that the nice people in Iowa -- who are very nice people -- never tell you, is, almost nobody votes in those caucuses.

About 8.5 percent of the eligible voters turned out, because you got to leave your home on a freezing night and sit in a school basement for four hours. At least in New Hampshire, also, unrepresentative, also incredibly overweighted, at least the turnout for a primary is heavy. Also, traditionally, Iowa has had almost nothing to say about who the nominee is. We hype it because it's the first thing we can count.

This year, I think Candy points to the critical point. Because one of Dean's presumed strongest opponents has to make a stand in Iowa, where he won in 1988, it actually may have some significance.

ZAHN: Final thought tonight, Joe, on what we should be looking for in the next couple of days.

KLEIN: Jeff and I have been campaigning for years for the Hawaii caucuses to start the process.

(LAUGHTER)

KLEIN: But there is some value in starting this thing in small states, where the candidates have to meet the voters almost one by one by one and convince them face-to-face. It's a good way for them to hone their skills and a good way for us to learn who they are.

And so it may not be Iowa and New Hampshire as the best places. Maybe they should -- the small states should rotate. But I think that having it start in a small place, maybe a warmer small place, is the best idea.

ZAHN: All right. All right. You may be dreaming Hawaii, Joe, but you know that's not in the budget for us, right?

GREENFIELD: We'll pay our own way.

KLEIN: We'll row.

(LAUGHTER)

CROWLEY: Speak for yourself.

(LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: All right, Jeff, Joe, Candy, thank you for all of your insights this evening.

Does the prosecution in the Michael Jackson case have a eyewitness?

And a dollar's a dollar, unless you're visiting Europe these days. Our Richard Quest shows us how far a buck goes when you have a weak dollar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The U.S. dollar hit a regular low today against the euro. In fact, it was the sixth day in a row that that has happened. Against European currencies, the dollar is off by 15 percent for the year. That is bad news, of course, for U.S. travelers overseas, and good news for Europeans here, as our Richard Quest found out.

We gave him $100 to spend in London and $100 to spend here. And he joins us now to show us how he did.

ZAHN: Good evening to you.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening.

Generosity, indeed, $100 in both. You often think of it as being the mighty dollar against all-comers, it will rule supreme. But it's sinking a bit like a stone at the moment, which is excellent news, Paula, for Englishmen in New York like me, and dreadful for you when you go abroad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The problem becomes clear when I tried to change my money. My $100 down, at today's exchange rate, down to just 50 pounds to spend in London.

(voice-over): I can't afford expensive gifts. I'll have to settle for something cheap and nasty instead.

(on camera): I'm going to have to get around London; 10 percent of my money is already gone on a zone one and two tube ticket.

(voice-over): Lunchtime in London. That means pub grub. After paying for a pint, my money is dwindling.

(on camera): A ride on the fun fair, this is only going to cost me about $3 or $4.

(voice-over): After 3:00, afternoon tea. This one's a bargain.

(on camera): My day finishes with buying a ticket to the movies. After all that, I've got just 50 pence left on my money. How am I going to do in New York?

Here's another $100. Time now to see how far it's going to go in New York. But what a day I've chosen to try and spend my tourist dollars. (voice-over): There are souvenirs galore, taxis and police hats. That's just what I bought in London.

(on camera): My all-day subway card, it's pretty much the same price as in London, around $7.

(voice-over): Lunch in New York requires something large and grand, if you've got the stomach.

(on camera): Finally, forget afternoon tea. We're in America, happy hour instead. And with the money we've saved, we can afford plenty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And if you want the proof of the pudding, there is the 50 pence that I got left over from London, but I had $23 left here in the United States. So, great for tourism, dreadful for Americans going abroad.

ZAHN: So show us what you bought here.

QUEST: Ah, gifts.

ZAHN: I want to see you have any change left over.

QUEST: Right. Now, look at that. Isn't that classy? This is classy.

ZAHN: That's lovely, lovely.

QUEST: Yes, look at that.

ZAHN: Let me take that. I got to take that one home. Can I take that one home?

QUEST: Yes. And they actually go backwards and forward. Look.

ZAHN: Oh, good. They spin. Great. Thank you.

QUEST: One of those as well. What am I going to take home myself? Oh, and a London taxi.

ZAHN: All right, but don't you have samples of what you bought here. Or this is just all the stuff you bought over there?

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Well, there's the New York City taxi and the NYPD hat.

And the important thing here, Paula, is quite simply this. It's going to get worse. So I will have plenty more of this sort of stuff. Thank you very much. And you'll be left with nothing.

ZAHN: At all?

QUEST: At all.

ZAHN: I'll take your change back now.

QUEST: Do you want the dollars or the pounds?

ZAHN: I think I'll go with the dollars tonight.

QUEST: Yes.

ZAHN: Thank you, Richard. Travel well.

We're going to take a short break here.

And when we come back, we're going to take a look at the reports that the prosecution in the Michael Jackson child molestation case has an eyewitness to the alleged crime, the brother of his accuser.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: We turn now to the Michael Jackson investigation.

There are reports today that the brother of Jackson's accuser says he witnessed at least one act of molestation committed by the singer. Court TV reporter Diane Dimond is here to tell us what she has learned.

Welcome.

DIANE DIMOND, COURT TV: Thanks.

ZAHN: Let's talk about what's being reported, according to "The L.A. Times," that the 12-year-old brother of Mr. Jackson's accuser claims to have witnessed one act of molestation.

(CROSSTALK)

DIMOND: Actually, he's 12 years old now. At the time this happened, of course, he was younger.

Actually, I reported this last night, too, that the younger brother -- and Michael Jackson admits on this ABC documentary that: I have this boy in the bedroom with me and his brother in the bedroom with me. So Michael Jackson, being his own worst enemy, has put these two boys in his own bedroom. The younger brother says he woke up one night and he actually witnessed an act of molestation.

ZAHN: Are there details on this alleged of molestation?

DIMOND: Fondling, to be not too explicit.

ZAHN: Touched inappropriately.

DIMOND: Touched inappropriately.

ZAHN: You also reported that the sister might also be willing to come forward and talk. DIMOND: Right.

It's important to remember, this was not a mother who just said to her boy, OK, go to Neverland. The whole family went. It was older sister, the accuser and his younger brother and mom. But at Neverland, it's a big complex. And so you can stay in an outbuilding or in another wing. The sister was with mother, so she was not able to witness anything.

ZAHN: So what is it she can add to this investigation?

DIMOND: She noticed this odd behavior change in her middle brother, and she asked about it and got clued into what was going on.

Now, the little brother knows. The sister gets this contemporaneous report. Contemporaneous is important in lawyer-speak. It's not something he told her six months later. He told her at the time. But nobody told mom.

ZAHN: But I'm not understanding this. This boy was in poor health to begin with.

DIMOND: Yes.

ZAHN: So what's the discrepancy that she apparently witnessed, that she saw his health deteriorate?

DIMOND: He was always described as sort of a happy-go-lucky kid. He loved Neverland, always had a smile on his face when he was there. And, suddenly, his behavior turned sort of sullen and inward. And she wondered what was wrong, according to my sources. And she asked him. And he divulged to her, "Michael Jackson is touching me inappropriately."

ZAHN: When you begin to hear about the sister potentially talking, and you know the mother was there and the brother of the alleged accuser, does it add to a picture of a family trying to rake Michael Jackson over the coals?

DIMOND: Well, I think you make a very important point.

From a prosecutorial point, it's very rare to have an eyewitness to sex abuse, child sex abuse. And here, they say they have one, or my sources say they have one. However, the other side of that is the defense side: Wait a minute. If this mother could convince one boy to tell a story to try to make money, couldn't she convince another boy, her other son, to make money?

So, of course, there are two sides to every story. And we need to keep that in mind.

ZAHN: There is a complaint perhaps that the DA is dragging his feet in filing formal charges against Michael Jackson. What's going on there? What's the status of that?

DIMOND: I just don't believe that. I know that was reported in "The New York Times." I read it the other morning and was flabbergasted by it. That's the way they do things under California law. Look how long it took to charge Robert Blake. It took them a year to charge Phil Spector. Under California law, you don't have to file charges right away. And they often don't. This DA is filing charges much quicker -- we expect them on the 15th or 16th of this month -- than those other two cases.

ZAHN: Finally, you were involved in the coverage of the case, the 1993 case, where charges were never actually brought against Michael Jackson. The case was settled out of court.

DIMOND: Right.

ZAHN: How concerned is the DA that that might happen again with this latest case?

DIMOND: Oh, I've asked that question over and over again at different stages in this development of this story. And every time, I'm met with, oh, we don't have to worry about that.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: They don't even think that's a remote possibility?

DIMOND: They don't think that this family is after money. They think this family is after justice. And I remind them that there is a California law that would compel the victim to testify. They say, we don't need it.

ZAHN: Diane Dimond, thanks for dropping by.

DIMOND: You're welcome.

ZAHN: Enjoy the weekend.

We appreciate your all being with us tonight. That wraps it up for all of us here.

Monday: In an era when we make more money, have more luxury, live longer with better health care, why are Americans so unhappy? We'll try answering that question.

But, in the meantime, we hope you have a great, relaxing weekend.

Good night.

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Spotlight; Remembering Pearl Harbor>