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CNN LIVE SATURDAY

California Passes New Law Requiring Car Makers To Explain Black Boxes

Aired December 6, 2003 - 18:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: California has a new law going into effect next month that requires car makers to explain exactly what black boxes can actually report. Does that mean your privacy is a thing of the past? Well, Joan Claybrook and Brian Doherty are going to help us explore this topic. Joan is the president of Public Citizen. And Brian is the senior editor of "Reason" magazine. Welcome to both of you.
JOAN CLAYBROOK, PRESIDENT, PUBLIC CITIZEN: Thank you.

LIN: Brian, I know there are concerns about privacy when it comes to these black boxes, but really, what is the issue? What is there to be private about when it comes to your motor speed, your breaking frequency etcetera?

BRIAN DOHERTY, EDITOR "REASON" MAGAZINE: To me, it is all about choice is why I applaud the California law. I think you should be able to know that there are deices like this in your car and you should always have the ability to shut them off if you don't want them there. I can see why other people might want you t have this device, whether it be police or insurance investigators. But if you don't think it serves a safety purpose for you, you should be able to shut it off and to know that it is there.

LIN: Well, Joan, does it serve a safety purpose?

CLAYBROOK: It certainly does. And I think it is just the same concept as the safety belt or an air bag or a crash board in the car. It is there, first of all, to notify the hospitals and police if there is a serious crash. And you need immediate emergency care.

LIN: So it works automatically upon impact, a signal is sent out?

CLAYBROOK: That's right. It is automatic notification. And then in addition, it is very important for establishing exactly what happened in the wreck. You don't want innocent people to not be able to recover or whatever the issue may be, or if there is criminal issues involved. So that is a very important function. And in addition, it is very important for collecting safety data, which may not benefit you today but it is going benefit you tomorrow and your children and your friends and family. So it has enormous importance in our society. The one issue I would raise is that there are no official standards now for what data is collected, how the data can be access and for its retrieval and storage. So those things ... LIN: So that is a good point. I mean, Brian how would people even get the information, I mean, wouldn't the owner of the vehicle have to consent to release it to anyone?

DOHERTY: Well, in California, that is now the case because of this new law, but most states don't have laws like that. So the legal question about who has access to it is still up in the air. I think and California thought that it is yours.

LIN: But it is your black box. It is your vehicle and your black box, so ...

DOHERTY: Exactly, it should be yours. No one should have access to it accept with a court order, or warrant or with your permission. And stepping back, you shouldn't even have the device in your car without your knowledge and your active opting in. You should be able to shut it off.

LIN: But why wouldn't personal property laws apply to that?

DOHERTY: The issue is still up in the air. Tennessee is now debating passing a law similar to California. These things have been in cars for such a short amount of time so far, and most people don't even know if they have, that there is still some open questions. That is why California had to pass this law protecting your privacy and this data. And I think it was a good idea and more states should do it.

LIN: I mean, Joan, would you disagree with that, that people should have the option of opting out, of not giving out information even if you know they might benefit from the services that the black box provides as you've described?

CLAYBROOK: Well, if there is a court case that data will be able to be discovered. Just as you can discover how the manufacture made the car, the information on that black box will be subject to discovery and court order to discovery. So it will be known.

LIN: You would feel OK if somebody issued a court order to take your property from you despite your own free will, just because you happen to buy a vehicle with a black box in it?

CLAYBROOK: Well, first of all, you are traveling on the public highways, we should emphasize that. And you can do tremendous damage to other people. And so, when there is a wreck there is an obligation of the police to try and find out what happened. And if there is a court case that comes out of it or a criminal investigation that information is subject to being discovered. And that has been traditional for many, many hundreds of years.

LIN: But, you know, it is interesting, in this social environment, though, Joan, does it raise any questions with concerns about the Patriot Act and how much information the government should have access to that in this particular climate, social and political climate that this debate, you know, could get pretty serious over where this information should go? CLAYBROOK: Look, I don't want any misuse of this. And I believe if there is any use by the FBI, you know, as you are traveling in your car and using it to access information about you that absolutely you should have to get a warrant from a court. But in a crash I think it is an entirely different situation. If there is a discovery in a court case or a criminal investigation then this is part of what happens in the crash that should be able to be discovered. But I think the larger issue is that for me who are driving property it is a very great protection of them. It is not something they should be afraid of. And I hope that this issue about whether to opt in or opt out is not obscured by the philosophical issue and instead there is a focus on the safety issues.

LIN: All right, Brian I will give you the last word.

DOHERTY: Sure, it is nice of Joan to mention that they should need a warrant to get that data. But the fact is the very creation of devices like this that create this kind of income stream are a danger to people's privacy. And that is why I think most people who care about keeping where they are going and information about themselves to themselves would want to know that this device is in their car and want to be able to get rid of it, your car, your choice.

LIN: All right, there you go. Brian Doherty, senior editor "Reason" magazine, Joan Claybrook of Public Citizen. Thank you very much.

CLAYBROOK: Thank you.

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