Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Florida Juvenile System

Aired December 11, 2003 - 11:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get some legal perspective now on this case. Kendall Coffey is a former U.S. attorney, and frequent CNN guest on legal matters. He's joining us this morning from our Miami bureau.
Kendall, thanks so much for being here. Also nice to see you.

What are we taking about here in this case? What does it boil down to?

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTY.: Well, what's going to happen next, I think, is the state may pursue rehearing, it could stretch it out a few weeks, maybe a few months. But, Heidi, what is ultimately going to afford now is a plea agreement, maybe very similar to the one that was refused by Lionel Tate's lawyers and mother some years ago, which would have been three years, plus 10 years of probation.

Ironically, Heidi, if that were accepted now, hew was given credit for time served, he'd be out in very early 2004, to be followed by a period of probation and perhaps some supervision, because there are some real issues with what happened here. Tiffany was violently and brutally killed.

COLLINS: Why was there no plea deal before then, Kendall?

COFFEY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear, Heidi?

COLLINS: Why no plea deal before?

COFFEY: This is -- I just can't hear.

COLLINS: All right, we're going to move on then, Kendall.

I want to ask you about, you have said in the past that you really don't think that there's going to be a new trial. Tell me your thoughts on that?

COFFEY: Well, it's not a triable case. The prosecution doesn't want to put this child away for life again, and the defense knows that the wrestling, play acting defense was a phony. They can't get back in front of a jury and say she wasn't killed over a period of five minutes, horrible injuries. So the only thing that makes sense here is to recognize what should have been done the first time, a plea agreement that not only puts him in some kind of detention for a period, but, Heidi, he needs some kind of treatment, unless they are absolutely convinced that whatever violent rage prompted him to kill that girl will never reappear. COLLINS: So what kind of a different outcome could there be then, Kendall?

COFFEY: Well, if they try the case, there could be some kind of conviction, again, maybe a lesser charge, such as manslaughter. But the prosecution, even though this conviction has now been set aside, still has the ability to try him as an adult, and still has the ability to seek a life sentence. One of the things the appeals court made very clear, Heidi, is nothing about the decision yesterday impairs in any way the ability of Florida to try very young offenders as adult and seek even very long prison terms.

In fact, the appellate court said it is not uncommon for juvenile offenders to get life sentences in Florida courts. That's not going to change. So the reality that there will be other, perhaps, Lionel Tates, other very young offenders, facing very, very long prison time is going to continue. You may recall that Nathaniel Brazil, 13 years old, who shot and killed a teacher, is facing a 28-year sentence, and that 28-year sentence was recently affirmed by the same appeals court that determined that Lionel Tate should get a new trial.

COLLINS: Well, what about this? How did things get so strict in Florida for young offenders?

COFFEY: In the mid '90s, Heidi, there was such a concern everywhere about a wave of juvenile violence and juvenile killings. The median age of somebody that might kill you in a robbery used to be 19 or 20. By 1994 or 1995, the age had dropped to 15 or 16. Florida, in particular, had a rash of brutal cases committed by very, very young people. The fear and the absolute horror that that created in the mind of the public has led to one of the toughest attitudes toward juvenile offenders in any state in the country. We saw it with the Lionel Tate case. We saw it, of course, with Nathaniel Brazil.

You will recall the case of the two young King brothers, very young, again, arrested, charged ready to be sentenced as an adult. Now that conviction was thrown out because of the bizarre prosecution theory, but it underscores that Florida is perhaps, and will continue to be, one of the toughest states in the country when it comes to very young criminal offenders.

COLLINS: After Lionel Tate learned that possibly this appeals court had overturned the conviction, it says here that his attorney is claiming that there were many, many people inside the jail, including the guards, who were happy about this, a lot of clapping going on. What do you think the support for this case in the community might be?

COFFEY: It became an international cause as well as something that people felt about very strongly locally. You may recall the prosecution himself was an early advocate for some kind of executive clemency.

Yes, something very terrible happened, but he was only 12 years old. And as to whether or not he could understand what was going on, when you're prosecuting children this young, they are watching cartoons, they are doing drawings, they are trying to find a video game at the same time that they are involved in a murder case. So there was this overall, overwhelming sense in so many places that this was a miscarriage of justice, just too young to lose the rest of his life, no matter how terrible the crime.

COLLINS: All right. Again, we will be watching this case, as you might imagine. Former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey thanks for being with us today. I appreciate your insights.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 11, 2003 - 11:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We want to get some legal perspective now on this case. Kendall Coffey is a former U.S. attorney, and frequent CNN guest on legal matters. He's joining us this morning from our Miami bureau.
Kendall, thanks so much for being here. Also nice to see you.

What are we taking about here in this case? What does it boil down to?

KENDALL COFFEY, FMR. U.S. ATTY.: Well, what's going to happen next, I think, is the state may pursue rehearing, it could stretch it out a few weeks, maybe a few months. But, Heidi, what is ultimately going to afford now is a plea agreement, maybe very similar to the one that was refused by Lionel Tate's lawyers and mother some years ago, which would have been three years, plus 10 years of probation.

Ironically, Heidi, if that were accepted now, hew was given credit for time served, he'd be out in very early 2004, to be followed by a period of probation and perhaps some supervision, because there are some real issues with what happened here. Tiffany was violently and brutally killed.

COLLINS: Why was there no plea deal before then, Kendall?

COFFEY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear, Heidi?

COLLINS: Why no plea deal before?

COFFEY: This is -- I just can't hear.

COLLINS: All right, we're going to move on then, Kendall.

I want to ask you about, you have said in the past that you really don't think that there's going to be a new trial. Tell me your thoughts on that?

COFFEY: Well, it's not a triable case. The prosecution doesn't want to put this child away for life again, and the defense knows that the wrestling, play acting defense was a phony. They can't get back in front of a jury and say she wasn't killed over a period of five minutes, horrible injuries. So the only thing that makes sense here is to recognize what should have been done the first time, a plea agreement that not only puts him in some kind of detention for a period, but, Heidi, he needs some kind of treatment, unless they are absolutely convinced that whatever violent rage prompted him to kill that girl will never reappear. COLLINS: So what kind of a different outcome could there be then, Kendall?

COFFEY: Well, if they try the case, there could be some kind of conviction, again, maybe a lesser charge, such as manslaughter. But the prosecution, even though this conviction has now been set aside, still has the ability to try him as an adult, and still has the ability to seek a life sentence. One of the things the appeals court made very clear, Heidi, is nothing about the decision yesterday impairs in any way the ability of Florida to try very young offenders as adult and seek even very long prison terms.

In fact, the appellate court said it is not uncommon for juvenile offenders to get life sentences in Florida courts. That's not going to change. So the reality that there will be other, perhaps, Lionel Tates, other very young offenders, facing very, very long prison time is going to continue. You may recall that Nathaniel Brazil, 13 years old, who shot and killed a teacher, is facing a 28-year sentence, and that 28-year sentence was recently affirmed by the same appeals court that determined that Lionel Tate should get a new trial.

COLLINS: Well, what about this? How did things get so strict in Florida for young offenders?

COFFEY: In the mid '90s, Heidi, there was such a concern everywhere about a wave of juvenile violence and juvenile killings. The median age of somebody that might kill you in a robbery used to be 19 or 20. By 1994 or 1995, the age had dropped to 15 or 16. Florida, in particular, had a rash of brutal cases committed by very, very young people. The fear and the absolute horror that that created in the mind of the public has led to one of the toughest attitudes toward juvenile offenders in any state in the country. We saw it with the Lionel Tate case. We saw it, of course, with Nathaniel Brazil.

You will recall the case of the two young King brothers, very young, again, arrested, charged ready to be sentenced as an adult. Now that conviction was thrown out because of the bizarre prosecution theory, but it underscores that Florida is perhaps, and will continue to be, one of the toughest states in the country when it comes to very young criminal offenders.

COLLINS: After Lionel Tate learned that possibly this appeals court had overturned the conviction, it says here that his attorney is claiming that there were many, many people inside the jail, including the guards, who were happy about this, a lot of clapping going on. What do you think the support for this case in the community might be?

COFFEY: It became an international cause as well as something that people felt about very strongly locally. You may recall the prosecution himself was an early advocate for some kind of executive clemency.

Yes, something very terrible happened, but he was only 12 years old. And as to whether or not he could understand what was going on, when you're prosecuting children this young, they are watching cartoons, they are doing drawings, they are trying to find a video game at the same time that they are involved in a murder case. So there was this overall, overwhelming sense in so many places that this was a miscarriage of justice, just too young to lose the rest of his life, no matter how terrible the crime.

COLLINS: All right. Again, we will be watching this case, as you might imagine. Former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey thanks for being with us today. I appreciate your insights.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com