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American Morning

Wrestling Death

Aired December 11, 2003 - 07:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A Florida boy sentenced to life in prison for killing a playmate will get a new trial. An appeals court yesterday threw out the conviction of Lionel Tate in the death of a 6- year-old playmate in 1999. Tate, who was 12 at the time, was tried as an adult. His lawyer said he was imitating wrestling moves and that the girl was killed accidentally.
Earlier had morning, I spoke with Tate's trial attorney, Jim Lewis, and his appeals lawyer, Richard Rosenbaum, about what happens to Lionel Tate now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROSENBAUM, ATTORNEY WHO APPEALED LIONEL TATE'S CASE: Lionel was pretty euphoric yesterday once he heard the news, and he screamed, and some of the guards I could hear clapping in the background. They were all pretty pleased for him. The first question out of his mouth was the obvious one: "Can I get out on bond?" And that's our next step.

Once the decision becomes final, which will be in 15 days, then the trial court has jurisdiction or power again, and they can release him upon reasonable conditions, just as Mr. Lewis had him released prior to trial the first time around.

O'BRIEN: And that means that he would potentially go back to trial when, do you think?

ROSENBAUM: Well, under Florida's speedy trial law, the defendant has a right to go to trial within 90 days. Whether that right would be exercised or whether the case will ever get tried again is really up to the state attorney's office. And I'm sure there will be a lot of conversations concerning the best way to resolve this.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Lewis, four years ago you were the attorney for Lionel Tate. And at the time, when he was convicted you got a lot of criticism for your defense. And I know that you have said since then, well, obviously in hindsight, that defense saying that Lionel Tate was doing sort of the professional wrestling moves when he killed the 6- year-old playmate was not such a great defense. What's the strategy, do you think, this time around? And why was the issue of competency, which seems to be the core of the appeal, never brought up in the original trial?

JIM LEWIS, ATTORNEY FOR TATE IN YOUTH'S FIRST TRIAL: Well, I think the obvious strategy is to try to resolve this case. I don't see any reason why this child shouldn't get the same offer that he got last time, which was three years in prison followed by an extended term of probation.

This case has shaken up our entire system of justice down here. This is what happens when you put a 12 or a 13-year-old on trial for first-degree murder in an adult court. The system just isn't designed for that.

The issue of competency now, the appellate court has basically said, you'd better be very careful when it is that you're going to put a 12 or a 13-year-old in this position to understand that he knows everything, and that's very difficult for a child of that age.

O'BRIEN: Was it clear to you, Mr. Lewis, that Lionel Tate didn't know and understand everything when the original plea bargain deal of three years and probation was rejected?

LEWIS: Well, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a psychologist, and I don't pretend to be. We certainly had competent people around that were assisting. But, again, everybody was put in a position that no one had really been put in before, having a 12-year-old child in this position. Did he understand? You know, who knows what's in the mind of a 12-year-old little boy? He was in a very difficult position. He was relying on the adults around him, obviously, to make decisions for him. Maybe some of those decisions weren't the best.

I like to think that -- you know, I've tried over 300 cases, and I'd like to think that I've never made a mistake. But quite frankly, I don't think that that's probably true. And I thank God that we have people like Richard and the appellate courts that can fix some of these mistakes that are made at the trial court level.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Rosenbaum, you're an appeals lawyer. But if there is a new trial, then a new legal team would be brought in to defend Lionel Tate, I assume. Do you know who potentially would come on board to take this -- he's now a young man, he's 16 years old -- this young man's case? Johnny Cochran, Barry Shek (ph), do those ring a bell? Are those the people who might come on board and help in the defense, do you think?

ROSENBAUM: Those are people who have come to Lionel's aid and assistance these last couple years, and they've helped us, and we appreciate their support. But at this point, I'm not committing them to anything. I know Mr. Cochran says that he's no longer doing criminal cases. He's only doing disasters, but he has said publicly that Lionel Tate's case is a disaster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The attorneys for Lionel Tate this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired December 11, 2003 - 07:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A Florida boy sentenced to life in prison for killing a playmate will get a new trial. An appeals court yesterday threw out the conviction of Lionel Tate in the death of a 6- year-old playmate in 1999. Tate, who was 12 at the time, was tried as an adult. His lawyer said he was imitating wrestling moves and that the girl was killed accidentally.
Earlier had morning, I spoke with Tate's trial attorney, Jim Lewis, and his appeals lawyer, Richard Rosenbaum, about what happens to Lionel Tate now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROSENBAUM, ATTORNEY WHO APPEALED LIONEL TATE'S CASE: Lionel was pretty euphoric yesterday once he heard the news, and he screamed, and some of the guards I could hear clapping in the background. They were all pretty pleased for him. The first question out of his mouth was the obvious one: "Can I get out on bond?" And that's our next step.

Once the decision becomes final, which will be in 15 days, then the trial court has jurisdiction or power again, and they can release him upon reasonable conditions, just as Mr. Lewis had him released prior to trial the first time around.

O'BRIEN: And that means that he would potentially go back to trial when, do you think?

ROSENBAUM: Well, under Florida's speedy trial law, the defendant has a right to go to trial within 90 days. Whether that right would be exercised or whether the case will ever get tried again is really up to the state attorney's office. And I'm sure there will be a lot of conversations concerning the best way to resolve this.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Lewis, four years ago you were the attorney for Lionel Tate. And at the time, when he was convicted you got a lot of criticism for your defense. And I know that you have said since then, well, obviously in hindsight, that defense saying that Lionel Tate was doing sort of the professional wrestling moves when he killed the 6- year-old playmate was not such a great defense. What's the strategy, do you think, this time around? And why was the issue of competency, which seems to be the core of the appeal, never brought up in the original trial?

JIM LEWIS, ATTORNEY FOR TATE IN YOUTH'S FIRST TRIAL: Well, I think the obvious strategy is to try to resolve this case. I don't see any reason why this child shouldn't get the same offer that he got last time, which was three years in prison followed by an extended term of probation.

This case has shaken up our entire system of justice down here. This is what happens when you put a 12 or a 13-year-old on trial for first-degree murder in an adult court. The system just isn't designed for that.

The issue of competency now, the appellate court has basically said, you'd better be very careful when it is that you're going to put a 12 or a 13-year-old in this position to understand that he knows everything, and that's very difficult for a child of that age.

O'BRIEN: Was it clear to you, Mr. Lewis, that Lionel Tate didn't know and understand everything when the original plea bargain deal of three years and probation was rejected?

LEWIS: Well, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a psychologist, and I don't pretend to be. We certainly had competent people around that were assisting. But, again, everybody was put in a position that no one had really been put in before, having a 12-year-old child in this position. Did he understand? You know, who knows what's in the mind of a 12-year-old little boy? He was in a very difficult position. He was relying on the adults around him, obviously, to make decisions for him. Maybe some of those decisions weren't the best.

I like to think that -- you know, I've tried over 300 cases, and I'd like to think that I've never made a mistake. But quite frankly, I don't think that that's probably true. And I thank God that we have people like Richard and the appellate courts that can fix some of these mistakes that are made at the trial court level.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Rosenbaum, you're an appeals lawyer. But if there is a new trial, then a new legal team would be brought in to defend Lionel Tate, I assume. Do you know who potentially would come on board to take this -- he's now a young man, he's 16 years old -- this young man's case? Johnny Cochran, Barry Shek (ph), do those ring a bell? Are those the people who might come on board and help in the defense, do you think?

ROSENBAUM: Those are people who have come to Lionel's aid and assistance these last couple years, and they've helped us, and we appreciate their support. But at this point, I'm not committing them to anything. I know Mr. Cochran says that he's no longer doing criminal cases. He's only doing disasters, but he has said publicly that Lionel Tate's case is a disaster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: The attorneys for Lionel Tate this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.