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Hot Topics With Ann Coulter, Matt Miller

Aired December 12, 2003 - 12:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Halliburton, Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, is under scrutiny once again. This time over a Pentagon audit that questions whether or not a Halliburton subsidiary importing gas to Iraq charged simply too much. It's just one of the hot topics will be debating today.
Joining us from Los Angeles, Matt Miller, author of "The Two Percent Solution: Fixing America's Problems in Ways Liberals and Conservatives Can Love." And joining us from New York, Ann Coulter, a lawyer and the author of "Treason," a huge bestseller, among other books.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Let me start with you, Ann Coulter, on the Halliburton issue. As you know, a lot of people out there, without necessarily even knowing all of the facts, they just thinks it smells wrong that Halliburton got these billions of dollars in contracts, especially since Dick Cheney was once the CEO.

ANN COULTER, AUTHOR, "TREASON": Right. The liberal theory on Halliburton really is nothing so much as the trilateral commission or (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conspiracy theories. I mean, it is very odd if you try to figure out what the flow chart is here.

Dick Cheney once worked for Halliburton. He sold all of his stock. But now because of a secret Manson (ph) handshake, he takes the nation to war after placing neo-conservatives carefully throughout the administration to get the entire country to go to war so that Halliburton can overpay a subcontractor $60 million.

I mean, it is really nutty. The left obsession with Halliburton is about one step above the Arab street's theory on the Zionists bombing the World Trade Center. Yes, there are always government inefficiencies when there are government programs. That's why conservatives would like there be fewer government programs. But war isn't one of those things.

BLITZER: All right. Matt, about what that?

MATT MILLER, AUTHOR, "THE TWO PERCENT SOLUTION": I think Ann's hypocrisy is breathtaking. I mean, what the Halliburton episode -- and this is probably just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the war profiteering we'd see if we actually had a Congress that would investigate the biggest defense buildup in terms of dollars in the nation's history. But it shows that we've basically got a government of Bush cronies, by Bush cronies and for Bush cronies. It's not just defense. We know that on Medicare Bush's very close business friend was involved in designing some of the Medicare bill provisions that will provide very lavish payoffs to insurers and HMOs as part of so-called Medicare revolve. And if Ann Coulter -- I mean, I have to laugh at the hypocrisy. If Hillary Clinton's law firm had gotten a no-bid contract worth billions of dollars and then was found weeks later to be overcharging, I think all the right wing attack dogs would be foaming at the mouth.

BLITZER: All right. Would you be...

COULTER: Well, let's take that. There are lots of law firms out there, thousands and thousands of law firms. There aren't other companies that can do what Halliburton does.

The point is, conservatives are always upset about government inefficiencies. When the government is doing things, there will be inefficiencies, often far worse than a subcontractor being hired by someone who won a bid for the government being slightly overcharged. There is fraud, there is corruption, there's waste. That is why you have to have as few government policies as possible.

As I say, it's...

BLITZER: All right. Let me ask...

COULTER: ... the military is one thing that has to be in the federal government.

BLITZER: Let me ask Matt Miller a question I asked our two previous guests. Can you name one U.S. company that can do what Halliburton does in Iraq right now?

MILLER: I'm not an expert on that, Wolf. So I don't doubt that Halliburton has skills that are needed. But it ought to be positive for conservatives to be credible enough o say, look, if we are throwing billions and billions of dollars with no bid contracts, with people with ties to the Bush administration, if deserves extra scrutiny. It's only common sense.

In World War II, Democrats did exactly that. Harry Truman, Democratic senator from Missouri, led an investigation of the arms buildup under World War II, because he was concerned that there was war profiteering. He uncovered tons of stuff. Maybe that was inconvenient for FDR at the time, but it took integrity to do it. Conservatives should be doing the same.

BLITZER: All right. Here is an e-mail, and then we're going to move on from Halliburton. From Jubal in Washington: "There is a story about Halliburton stealing money from U.S. taxpayers by overcharging for gas in Iraq. How much more money is Halliburton going to steal from the country before someone goes to jail for a very long time?"

I guess that is more of a comment than a question. Let's move on and talk about contracts. Ann, was the Bush administration right in publicly telling Canada, France, Russia and Germany, you know what, you're not going to eligible to compete for prime contracts to rebuild Iraq?

COULTER: Yes. I don't know why not. And I noticed that in a country that polls absolutely everything every six minutes, there has been no polls on that question, what the America people think about that. It's always suspicious when you don't see any polls.

BLITZER: Well, we did an instant poll, an unscientific poll on my show yesterday, and a majority said the Bush administration was right. But was that clearly unscientific.

What was wrong with treating the Germans and the French and the Russians, basically, the way they would treat the United States if the situation was reversed? Let Matt respond to that.

MILLER: I think the problem is, it reflects the continued emphasis of a kind of macho spitefulness, in terms so-called diplomacy by the Bush administration, when even they say -- I mean, President Bush in Europe made efforts to say we need to move forward, rather than go back and re-fight whether the U.S. should have gone into Iraq without some of their old Europe support. And so if you are trying to move forward, poking them in the eye, when in fact they will still be able to find ways through subcontracting to be involved, it is just another way of telling allies that we want to have on board to internationalize this effort that we don't care.

BLITZER: All right. Picking up that theme, Deana makes the same point. I'll read her e-mail.

"The nerve of President Bush commenting 'Let me go find a lawyer.' That sort of brattish, boyish antagonism is exactly why the rest of the world is not on our side now. He continues to squander our relationships with the rest of the world."

As you well know, even a lot of Republicans are concerned about that.

COULTER: I don't get the reference to "Let me go find a lawyer."

BLITZER: There was a question yesterday at the cabinet room when the president had a photo opportunity, and one of the reporters asked about Gerhard Schroeder's comment, suggestion, the chancellor of Germany, that barring Germany, France, Russia, Canada from participating in the bidding for these contracts could be a violation of international law, at which the president sort of quickly dismissed that with a cute, "I didn't check with my lawyer."

COULTER: I am with the lawyer. International law is like Santa Claus. Well, no -- except Santa Claus is real. It is like the Easter bunny.

There is no such thing as international law. This is so absurd, them going around stamping their feet over international law. You know, France and Russia, in particular, are holding a lot of debt from Iraq. They refuse to forgive it. They refuse to fight or even offer any words of support in this war.

Why should they have contracts? I mean, I don't really understand why there should be any controversy, other than that the left general position is we should punish our friends and rewards our enemies.

BLITZER: What about that, Matt?

MILLER: No, that has nothing to do with it. What this reflects is the internal chaos within the Bush administration. The State Department, and those who are trying to use diplomacy, are trying to get the world back on board.

The Pentagon is trying to run its own foreign policy differently and is very comfortable just dissing the people that the president is saying we want to get back involved. You can't have the Pentagon and the State Department shooting at each other and have any kind of coherent attempt to rebuild Iraq.

BLITZER: All right. Well, let's take a quick break. We have a lot more to go over, presidential politics in particular. Matt Miller, Ann Coulter, they're standing by.

Will Howard Dean be the Democrat to take on President Bush in 2004? It is all over or is it only just beginning? You can weigh in. Call us right now: 1-800-CNN-1896. E-mail me any time: wolf@cnn.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I asked President Chirac and Chancellor Schroeder and President Putin to see Jim Baker to talk about debt restructuring. If these countries want to participate in helping the world become more secure by enabling Iraq to emerge as a free and peaceful country, one way to contribute is debt restructuring.

And so Jim Baker, with the consent of the secretary of state, is going to go over and talk to these leaders about that. But I don't know what you are talking about international law. I better consult my lawyer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president yesterday speaking about this entire issue, the issue that we have been discussing over the past several moments. Welcome back to our continuing coverage.

Among the other subjects we want to get in today, presidential politics. Some key endorsements are being handed out to the Democratic presidential candidates. One of the candidates got a shocking snub, though. Our hot topics debate continues right now with the author, Matt Miller from Los Angeles, the author, Ann Coulter, from New York.

Matt Miller, you are a good Democrat. Is it all over? Is Howard Dean going to get this Democratic nomination?

MILLER: Well, it obviously looks very good for him. And when Al Gore endorsed him this week, in a move that surprised everyone, and apparently surprised the Dean camp up until a couple of moments before they agreed to do it, Dean obviously looks very strong. But I don't think you can say it is over, because no one has voted yet.

You've got campaigns up and running in all these early primary states. And I think we have to wait until the voters speak and make themselves heard before we say it is over.

BLITZER: What do you think, Ann?

COULTER: Well, I certainly know the least about who the Democrats are going to choose. But yes, it does look like it's going to be Dean, though not a single vote has been cast yet.

I do think the Gore endorsement ended up hurting Dean. It took a few days to set in, but it was just such a gross betrayal of Senator Lieberman, that I think it left a bad taste in people's mouth. It was just -- Gore was such an opportunistic cad waiting to see who the frontrunner was, not calling his former running mate first. I think it's not going to help Dean, including in Gore's home state of Tennessee. I don't think it will help him there.

BLITZER: Matt Miller, I don't know if it will hurt Howard Dean, but it certainly appears to have hurt Al Gore, the way he went about doing this endorsement.

MILLER: Well, I think some of that is chatter among people who really watch this stuff closely, like some columnists and a lot of the political press. But I think that at the end of the day, people like Gore or don't like Gore and take what he did at face value, which is he decided he wanted to weigh in and try and use whatever goodwill he has toward (ph) Dean.

BLITZER: But Matt, shouldn't he have had the courtesy, the dignity to call Joe Lieberman first and let him know what he was about to do?

MILLER: I think that's true. And I can't explain to -- pretend to explain what would cause someone not to do that. But you still have to step back and look at the big picture and say, let the voters have their say before we just say it is all over.

BLITZER: All right. Here's an e-mail for you, Ann, from David in Oregon. "If anyone reminds us of George McGovern's style, it's the Republicrat from Connecticut. And the major reason Democrats lost the House of Representatives was passionless leadership of the man from Missouri, who is a lesser version of Watler Mondale. Dean is more vibrant; thus, Kennedy or Truman-like, inspiring and motivating voters."

A little rambling, David's thoughts from Oregon. But what do you make of it?

COULTER: I guess he is talking about Gephardt and Lieberman?

BLITZER: He is making fun of everybody. But he clearly likes Howard Dean.

COULTER: That seems to be the way things are going. That is the calculation Al Gore made. Although, I don't see much difference between any of the Democratic candidates. I keep citing Dennis Kucinich as my favorite. But there really isn't that much difference between Dennis Kucinich and the rest of them, other than Senator Lieberman, who really is the only one who is patriotic, and therefore is going no place in these primaries.

BLITZER: Matt, you worked in the Clinton administration. Have these Democrats, with the exception of Lieberman, moved back towards the more liberal left part of the Democratic Party?

MILLER: I don't think so. And I really have to say I am offended when Ann Coulter says only Joe Lieberman is patriotic, no other Democrat is. That's such rubbish, and it's the kind of smear tactics that just is -- it's so wrong, it almost doesn't bear response. But you can't let it go.

I think what's happened is, the Republican mainstream has moved so radically to the right, that Democrats who are basically for things like basic health coverage for everyone, better schools, and more efforts to make schools better for less fortunate kids, that those kids things, as well as strong defense and international foreign policy, are things that are in the mainstream.

Most of the Democratic candidates have colesed around that. And I think any of them will present a more powerful alternative to the kind of radical conservatism we're seeing at the White House.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to take a quick break, but I'll let Ann respond quickly. You are not questioning the patriotism of any of these Democratic candidates, are you Ann?

MILLER: That is what she said.

BLITZER: Well, I'm asking her.

COULTER: I'm saying -- I noticed that Matt immediately goes to, you know, universal health care, and not what I think is rather more pressing issue, the war on terrorism. And eight of the nine don't want to fight it.

MILLER: Why can't we walk and chew gum at the same time?

BLITZER: Bu Ann, are you saying they are not patriotic? Is that what you are saying?

COULTER: I am saying they don't want to fight the war on terrorism. And the patriotic Democratic, the only one vaguely patriotic, is Joe Lieberman. And the rest of them, we would have to get used to having planes flying into our skyscrapers. That is their position.

MILLER: Oh, please.

COULTER: They would not -- they are against the treatment -- they're worried about the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo. They're upset about John Ashcroft.

MILLER: That's absurd.

COULTER: They wouldn't go into Iraq? Well, what would they do?

MILLER: It's absurd and offensive and insulting. I mean, you've got better...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: OK. All right. Hold off. We are going to continue this conversation. More phone calls, more e-mail questions for Ann Coulter, Matt Miller, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We are back with the Hot Topics debate. Matt Miller in L.A., Ann Coulter in New York.

Matt, Bill Clinton -- Al Gore in 2000, was reluctant to overly use Bill Clinton. Sometimes he urged him not even to come into some of the battleground states. What do you think the role of Bill Clinton will be this time around, irrespective of who the Democratic nominee is going to be?

MILLER: My guess is that President Clinton will work very hard once there's a nominee to do whatever that nominee would like him to do to help make the case to the American people that we need regime change at home, and that the Democratic vision for the country and the Democrat's candidate's vision for the country is much better as a future for the nation than George Bush's.

BLITZER: What do you think, Ann?

COULTER: I am glad that you asked that. Both of the Democratic presidential candidates to run since Bill Clinton have made a principal platform of theirs to declare their independence from Bill Clinton. They are the anti Clintons.

Al Gore chose the most anti-Clinton senator, Joe Lieberman, as his running mate. Never campaigned with Clinton, had the big smooch with Tipper. And now there's all of this hoo-ha (ph) about Dean being the anti-Clinton and the two wings of the party. And Clark is the Clinton wing, and so on. The two Democrats, they keep running for president by saying, I am not Bill Clinton.

BLITZER: Matt, go ahead.

MILLER: Well, again, that is all sort of inside baseball. When it comes down to a Democratic candidate, whoever it is, versus George Bush's record, you will see all Democrats (AUDIO GAP) to make the case around the country for why on domestic policy, on economic policy, on our international situation, that we are going in the wrong direction under George Bush, and we need to chose a different course.

BLITZER: All right. We're going to have to unfortunately leave it right there. We are out of time. A good debate. A lot of questions for the next time.

We will have both of you back. Matt Miller and Ann Coulter, always good to have you on the program.

MILLER: Thanks.

COULTER: Thanks.

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