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Why Is There A Shortage Of Flu Vaccines? Violence Among Very Young Children On Rise In Schools; What Is Your Stock Market Literacy Rate?

Aired December 13, 2003 - 13:00   ET


JACK CAFFERTY, HOST: Welcome to the program, I'm Jack Cafferty. On todays edition of IN THE MONEY, doing the right thing or maybe not. We'll look at the U.S. strategy to crack down on the anti-American guerrillas in Iraq and whether or not it's working.
Plus getting frequent flier miles the hard way. We'll meet the folks behind the only airline that makes daily trips in and out of Baghdad except for the U.S. Military.

And you know about school violence, but preschool violence, it's on the rise. We'll have the latest on kindergartner chaos.

Joining me today as always a couple of IN THE MONEY regulars.

CNN correspondent Susan Lisovicz. "Fortune" Magazine editor at large Andy Serwer.

Now, 10,000 not quite as much to do about it this time around. But still it was a milestone that had been much anticipated. The market finally broke through on Thursday. How much does it matter, this number.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Party like it's 1999 Jack. Except -- that's right we've been burned and you know it's amazing the resiliency of the stock market. It's a physiological milestone, everyone always says that. It was then in 1999 to look at how far the bull market has come. But now when you think about what's happened since the implosion of the dotcom industry recession, September 11 and of course the corruption that we've seen in corporate America. The fact that the market has come back at all is something of a milestone in of it's self.

CAFFERTY: Some people though Andy say the market prices right now are not justified by the earnings. That's it's a little rich at these levels.

ANDREW SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's what I wanted to get to, because Jack as you know, the Nasdaq is up 45 percent for the year. Waring signs right?


SERWER: And Dow and S&P...

(CROSSTALK) SERWER: Yes that's -- so the question is do we go down far enough to justify a 45 percent bounce. The really the big question is where do we go from here? And you know as always, Wall Street is a what have you done for me lately place.


SERWER: So we have to keep on keeping on. The recovery has to have legs, has to have steam as we head into 2004. You now, advertising is coming back they say. We'll talk about that. Who knows.

CAFFERTY: Got to see jobs and earnings.

SERWER: Yes, that's it.

CAFFERTY: Big numbers on both. Thanks (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

The campaign of violence against the U.S. soldier in Iraq continues. At least one American this week was killed in a suicide bombing west of Baghdad. In recent weeks though, the United States has turned up the heat in it's bid to route anti-coalition guerrillas and insurgents.

For the latest we go know to Nic Robertson who's live from us in Baghdad.

Nic what can you tell us.

NIC ROBERTSON, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know jack over the last few weeks turning up the heat seems to have diminish some of the attacks against the coalition. But the last week we have seen some reversals of those trends. What we have seen -- over the week and attack on the coalition head quarters, three to six missiles fired into that base. That hadn't happened for over a month, a month and half. The coalition looking at where those missiles came from. But I was out in a patrol less than week ago that fired mortars at suspected site that had been used for just such an attack before. Yet, even with this Iron Hammer as they call it cracking down, they are coming back. The Iraqi insurgents are coming back. Another development this week for the first time in over a month and a half suicide attacks against U.S. bases, three different bases. Thirty-one soldiers injured up near Mosul in the north, two injured when a suicide bomb tried to walk into a base just north of Baghdad. Fourteen injured and one killed to the west of Baghdad. So that's on the increase here as well, plus we have had another helicopter attack. A (UNINTELLIGIBLE) helicopter shooting over the last week as well, Jack.

CAFFERTY: All right. A long way from being peaceful yet. Nic thanks very much. Nic Robertson reporting for us today from Baghdad.

There are those who say that are strategy in Iraq is all wrong. If what we want to do is make things relatively safe for U.S., let alone establish a lasting peace. Joining us now to talk more about options in that troubled country -- CNN's analyst Ken Pollack was also director of research at the Saban Center at the Brookings Institute. And as well, Mr. Pollack has just returned from a trip to Iraq.

Ken, nice to see you, thanks for being with us.

KEN POLLACK, SABAN CTR., BROOKINGS: I see you Jack, thanks for having me.

CAFFERTY: Not to over simplify, but what's wrong with the coalition is taking?

Our guys continue to get killed. The violence is reported on every single day.

They are not in love with us yet, by a long shot, what's the problem?

POLLACK: Well, there are two basic problems out there Jack, with the counter insurgency campaign itself you have got these kind of brutal raids that take place these very aggressive operations, which are often times based on pretty scarce information. As a result many times you'll have U.S. forces that will break into Iraqi homes and it turns out nobody is there. There are not weapons there. It was someone informing on his neighbor he didn't particularly like, wanted to see the U.S. go in there. And every time we do that we alienate that family and we alienate all it's neighbors.

And this gets to a larger problem that we have which is, the Sunni triangle, the tribal Sunni's who live in the area west and north west of Baghdad, believe they have been completely alienated from the political process, as a result they have no desire see the United States say. Until we get control of that problem. Until we convince the Sunni Arabs that they are going to have an equal part of Iraq, but maybe they won't be a privileged as they were under Saddam Hussein, but they're still going to be an important element of Iraqi society. And get all the same benefits of the Shia and the Kurds we are never going to be able to deal with that problem.

It gets to those whole point -- people keep saying it's about hearts and minds, and it sounds like a true-ism but it is absolutely correct.

LISOVICZ: Ken, that would be a major -- it is a major obstacle in itself, but then the "Wall Street Journal" had this article a few days ago about how a judge, a prominent judge and prosecutor were kidnapped at gunpoint, the judge killed cold bloodedly to send a message out. The "New York Times" had front page story saying that the U.S. is preparing for the fact, that there will be these very strategic assassinations to send a message to the Iraqi population to intimidate them, to send fear, to demoralize them. That's yet another huge problem.

POLLACK: Absolutely. In fact, Susan, I would say that is ultimately the bigger problem. While we tend to obsess to a certain extent about the insurgence, because they're the ones attacking our troops directly, the point in fact, the biggest threat to the reconstruction of Iraq is not the violence defected against the U.S. forces. It's the violence being directed against the Iraqi people themselves. Both from former Ba'athists and the other members of the regime who want to try to prevent other Iraqis from cooperating with the United States. And I'll say that most Iraqis would like to see the reconstruction succeed but are frightened. And then the other problem, the very related problem to this, is just the general lawlessness in Iraq. Since the fall of the regime the United States has not stepped in and pacified the country, and dealt with the criminal elements inside Iraq. Most Iraqis, when you talk to them, their biggest concern is not the insurgents, it's not even to a certain extent attacks by farmer Ba'athists. Their biggest concern are just the criminals on the streets.

SERWER: Ken, you just came back from over there. I think a lot of people would be interested in this.

What's your personal experience over there in terms of safety?

Obviously, journalists and observers have been under fire over the past couple days.

How was it?

POLLACK: It's one of those things when you get accustomed to it. You figure out, especially when you're with people who know what they're doing, been in the country a while, you find out what you need to do. But said, this is not a safe and stable environment. The Iraqis you talk to will say flat out, they don't like to go outside at night. And most prefer to go out with a gun, because they're very concerned about things. The American personnel they tend not to go outside of their secure compounds, unless they are in fairly large groups, at least four people with at least two vehicles is pretty much the rule these days. And if they do have to go out on patrol, believe me, they are heavily armed. There's real concern out there. I'll say I spent a number of days up with one of the big military units -- U.S. military units in a place just north of Ira called Balag (ph). On a number of days they said, look, we can't find the personnel to go outside the perimeter. It's just not safe, because there is a lot of insurgency activity. We'd much prefer to stay in the perimeter today.

CAFFERTY: Are we kidding ourselves here, Ken?

Is this doable, what they want to do in Iraq?

POLLACK: This, to me, is one of the most frustrating things, Jack. It is doable. And one of the things that is really reinforced over there, how much good there is in the country. How many positive things that are going on there. The kind of great work that is being done, mostly by U.S. military personnel out in the field dealing with the Iraqis. How committed, so many of the Iraqis are, to making this work. But the problem is that we and a number of other countries, in particular the United States, we're doing things that don't make any sense and are making the problems worse, not better. As I said, it's incredibly frustrating. Because you look at it and say this could be a very good, stable country in 10, 15 years down the road, if only we'd get it right.

LISOVICZ: Ken Pollack, the CNN analyst and also at the Saban Center at Brookings Institute. Thanks for joining us.

POLLACK: Thanks you, Susan. Thanks, Jack.

LISOVICZ: When we come back, the eye of the storm. We'll tell you about one airline that is specializing in getting its passengers in to and out of the world's hottest spots including Baghdad.

Plus, are the kids all right?

A new study shows violent behavior on the rise in children as young as 3. We'll find out has makes Johnny tick.

And searching for a shot in the arm as the nationwide shortage of flu vaccines continues. We'll explain why preventive medicine often, takes a back seat to corporate profits. Stick around.


LISOVICZ: For diplomats and aid workers trying to get to Baghdad a carrier named Air Serv is quite literally the only way to fly. The company is the last civilian airline still flying Iraq's turbulent skies. Air Serv which has been operating for 20 years specializes flying people in and out of some of the world's most dangerous locations.

Joining us today, is Don Cressman, Air Serv's senior vice president of international operations and a man who's seen a few hot spots himself. You are a former bush pilot, are you not?

DON CRESSMAN, AIR SERV: Yes, that is correct.

LISOVICZ: OK. Before we get to your own very interesting biography, let's talk about why Air Serv flying into Baghdad, it is so dangerous. We've talked to experts who say it is a very long air strip and obviously very dangerous. We've had shoulder-fired missiles that hit an aircraft recently, narrowly missed it, I should say. Why is this Air Serv still operating?

CRESSMAN: Well, I think I can answer that real easily by saying what's going to happen on Monday. On Monday we're going to do a medevac flight where there's four children and three parents and a doctor that's going to be flown out of Irbill (ph) in northeastern Iraq. And two of the children, two of the boys were playing with a land mine. It blew up. One lost his leg. Shrapnel came up in their eyes. The two children have serious heart problems.

If Air Serv no longer flies, who helps those children?

SERWER: Don, let me ask you question.

Are you flying in to Baghdad?

And give us an idea of who's flying on you, besides that terrible story you just said?

Are journalists flying there, doctors?

All military people, obviously going in on military.

Give us a breakdown, please?

CRESSMAN: Our flights predominantly are for the nongovernmental organization. The NGOs, as we refer to them, which Air Serv is, of course, itself. And so NGOs fly in, they're the people that are connected with the programs on the ground inside Iraq.

SERWER: You mean like the Red Cross and that sort of thing?

CRESSMAN: Yes. ICRC is one of the major NGOs there. They also do some of their own flying themselves with their own aircraft.

CAFFERTY: It's obviously terrific humanitarian work that's much needed, the service you provide.

But on a personal note, why do you do this?

I mean, this, to me, sounds like a borderline death wish stuff.

Why go on and do this kind of thing?

CRESSMAN: Air Serv is very conservative as a company. We have 20 years of experience in this type of operation, without an accident, or a serious injury, and we believe that we can do it safely. And, again, the reason that we do it is, right now there is no other way. There are people, the NGOs are relying on Air Serv in order to help them. They can go in. They can be assured that someone is there to get them out, if things do turn worse.

LISOVICZ: But for anyone to fly Air Serv, in addition to your humanitarian efforts, you have to be a very, very good pilot. Can you describe that corkscrew maneuver that Air Serv practices on a regular basis to avoid being hit when taking off and landing?

CRESSMAN: Sure, certainly. Our -- as you mentioned, our pilots are very experienced, with an average of over 7,600 flight hours for each pilot. And what the maneuver consists of, without giving away some of the other things that also contribute to our safety there, is, it's a very steep descending turn or a steep climbing turn with a bank angle of at least 45 degrees, held within the very narrow confines right over top of the air strip, which is considered safe. It starts between 10,000 and 15,000 feet, and within three minutes, you're on the ground.

LISCOVICZ: Air sickness is a problem, I would imagine.

SERWER: Don, that sounds positively hairy. One last, quick question.

How long before we have commercial flights?

At one point they were talking about KLM and Northwest going in.

That is not going to happen now, right?

CRESSMAN: That is not going to happen until IKO and a lot of people and insurance really, is the major reason why no airliner will, of course, accept the risk of being able to get in. They can't get insurance.

SERWER: Yes, makes sense to me. All right, Don Cressman, senior V.P. for international operations at Air Serve, thanks very much.

CRESSMAN: You're welcome.

SERWER: We have to step out for a minute. But when we come back, read all about it. There's more green at the gray lady. The "New York Times" is expecting bigger profits down the road. Find out if the stock is a keeper.

Plus, art, crafts -- and chaos. A closer look at the surge in violent behavior among kindergarten kids.

And profits on the sick list. We'll tell you why fewer and fewer companies are making vaccines for illnesses like flu and chicken pox. Don't go away.


LISOCIVZ: Now let's check the week's top stories in our "Money Minute."

The Federal Reserve voted to keep interest rates steady and made it clear it doesn't expect to the raise rates any time soon. But Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan did say the U.S. Economy is moving briskly, which many take to mean the Fed is at least thinking about boosting rates in from there current 45-year low.

Maybe it will be a merry Christmas for you (AUDIO GAP) beating expectation. Retail sales were flat in October. Analysts see the report as a positive sign of consumer spending.

And American tourism is rising and nearing pre-9/11 levels. A new government report says tourism sales totaled were nearly $750 billion from July to September. It was the best quarter for tourism since the fall of 2000.

SERWER: Man I love that sound. When you say the "New York Times, " most people think only of the newspaper published in Times Square, but the "New York Times" company is much larger than one newspaper. It owns and operates the "Boston Globe" and several radio and TV stations in the south and Midwest. Despite very embarrassing scandals at the flagship company it's been a pretty stable year for "Times'" shares. They're now trading at halfway point between the 52 week high and low. The "New York Times" company is our stock of the week. One thing they've been saying you guys is the ad marks looks like it's improving in 2004, but didn't they say that in the beginning of 2003? LISOVICZ: But you know what, big, big difference here, that '04 is an election year. It doesn't matter whether you have campaign reform or political reforms there. I mean, the fact is, they will spend. You know what, the president, he's got a bundle right now and Howard Dean is racking it up. You're going to see a lot of advertising.

CAFFERTY: It's the kind of stock I would think you'd buy for a long-term investment. The newspaper type stocks, tribune, "New York Times" are not particularly volatile. They don't rise or fall to any great degree. But over time, if economic conditions are right and the flow of advertising dollars is good and they got their eye on cost, they tend grow pretty steadily.

LISOVICZ: And the "New York Times" has the confidence to actually raise the price of the flagship paper to a dollar.

SERWER: And to speak to your point Jack, of course, that was not lost on Warren Buffett, who made a ton of money in "The Washington Post" and Buffalo newspaper as well. "New York Times," I went back, looked it up, about 40 percent over the past five years as opposed to the market being down 10 percent. And what they are really have done of course roll this paper and make it a national newspaper. I mean, that's the big move. You got go to Seattle, Washington, D.C., you have the regional editions. And that is bad news for those local papers, because that means they're competing against not only "USA Today,' but now the "New York Times." It's a real force.

LISOVICZ: But it should be said the "New York Times" has also been certainly under siege in New York City with the tabloids, which are much cheaper.

SERWER: It's a tough town.

LISOVICZ: And it has been losing -- it's a tough town. It's been loosing readerships.

CAFFERTY: Well, you also have the "Wall Street Journal" that's widely read in place like New York City, Washington, D.C. or the larger metropolitan areas around the country. As far the impact on the local market, yes, there is some readership of papers like the "New York Times," but if you look at Spokane, you're likely to pick up the local Spokane newspaper, are you not, more than...


SERWER: I would think that's rights. But they have done a good job of going out there. Of course, the Sulzberger family has been running this for a long, long time. They still own 18 percent. It's got those double shares. And then, of course, there were the scandals as I mentioned. The Jason Blair situation. You have the new editor, Mr. Keller and you know, it's a difficult place to work, they say, if I may be so bold, but...

CAFFERTY: As opposed to CNN which is a walk in the park.


SERWER: Again, I'll take a step back. It's an incredible institution. They run an incredible newspaper.

LISOVICZ: The Pulitzers point to it.

SERWER: They really do.

CAFFERTY: A little left to center, pretty good journalism. You buy the stock, yes/no?

SERWER: I would for over the long term. I think you're right there.

LISOVICZ: I certainly read the newspaper.

SERWER: All right.


CAFFERTY: We've got to pay a few bills of our own, but we come back nap time becoming slap time among the very young. A look at a rise of violent outbursts in America's kindergartens. If that doesn't scary, it probably should.

And it's just business. Find out why so many U.S. cities are running low on flu vaccine when millions of Americans are in need of it. We'll be back.


CAFFERTY: Time-outs to knock-outs, America's youngest school kids are becoming more violent. Studies in different parts of the country show a surge in the number of incidents of rage and anger among kids as young as 3.

Some blame parents who are forced to spend less time with their kids because they're busy both of them trying to earn enough to provide for those children. Some say it's violent imagery on TV. Joining us now a woman who's written extensively about the trend, "TIME" magazine editor-at-large Claudia Wallis. It's nice to see you, thanks for being here. This is a little scary. What's going on here?

CLAUDIA WALLIS, "TIME": It is scary. We did a lot of reporting for this story at "TIME" magazine. And heard from a number of teachers of kids ages 3, 4, 5, 6, that they're seeing a real rise in extremely aggressive behavior that is difficult to -- for teachers to resolve.

LISOVICZ: What are you talking about? Can you describe, say, some of the incidents that you've been hearing about?

WALLIS: We're talking about a lot of biting, cursing at teachers and principals. Throwing objects, and what's even in some ways worse, is that the kids who are exhibiting this behavior very often don't respond to the common authority figures stepping in and saying, sit down and calm down.

SERWER: Claudia, I have a kindergartener. You hear these story, there's always some kids. Some of the stories you had the anecdotes were absolutely terrifying. But how much of this is really just anecdotal? How scientific are your -- is your evidence in terms of this really increasing?

WALLIS: It's an excellent question. And we tried very hard to find a national study on it. There really isn't one. I think is trend is rather new. But maybe even more significantly, school administrators are not particularly eager to talk about it, to report the incidents, or to have it analyzed.

CAFFERTY: Why not?

WALLIS: They won't even return phone calls.

Why not?


WALLIS: Several reasons. For one thing, it's bad publicity to say that your kids are out of control in school. It gets parents very worried. It doesn't build the reputation of the school. But another reason, some people have suggested when we did the reporting is, the more you report violent incident, the more likely it is for kids to get transferred out of your district, and the funds follow those kids.

CAFFERTY: So the bureaucracy is in some ways more interested in protecting itself and its flow of funds than it is in addressing what sounds to me like a very troubling phenomenon in the schools. What does this mean? Do the psychologists and psychiatrists know what it means when 3-year-olds will not respond to an adult saying sit down and when they're biting, throwing things and doing the things you're talking about? Where does this go?

WALLIS: Well, there is a lot of conjecture about the causes. And I just do want to set the record straight that a couple of districts were very frank with us. The people in Ft. Worth, Texas, were very frank with us. And Philadelphia does really a tremendous job of reporting all of these incidents.

But what do you do about it? Where do you go with it? I mean, a lot of schools are implementing bullying programs -- anti-bullying programs, at very young ages, to sort of teach kindness. Teach kids about respect for each other. To sort of cut down on aggression between kids. That's a big movement. Philadelphia is doing a lot with that.

Then there's a lot of thinking about trying to get messages to parents. Working more with parents in how to teach their kids basic civil behavior. And a lot of the people we interviewed said parents need to spend more time talking -- simply interacting with kids.

LISOVICZ: You know Claudia, one of the really telling anecdotes for me was an example where a child was behaving terribly and when the parent came in, told the teacher that, well, this kid just eats whenever he wants to eat. In other words, whatever the kid wanted to do at home was fine. And that was one of the reasons why he was acting out in class. He was used to having his own way.

WALLIS: We hear that story from the head of psychological services at Ft. Worth in the school district there. A lot of psychologists that we did interview for this story are saying they're seeing a lot of kids that are coming in and they may be 5 or 6 years old, chronologically, but emotionally they're much younger, because they haven't had a lot of socialization.

SERWER: I see that with parents all the time these days. It's so important for my child to do his thing. We shouldn't inhibit him or her in any way that you're going to crimp him or her, and it's very important to let them express themselves. Well, how about sitting down? I mean -- I really think that that is a result of some of that thinking, and parenting.

WALLIS: Some of it, also, don't forget the exhaustion factor.

SERWER: Know that, too.

WALLIS: A lot of parents come home from work. They're both working long hours, and they're almost too exhausted to kind of set the rules straight. And have that nice dinner. It's, I think, a big problem.

CAFFERTY: So a hot dog if that's what the kid wants. Spaghetti O's and put in the cartoons on the VHS in the tape player, because you've got to have a break from life yourself, right?

So the kid can pretty much fend for himself. You get to sit down and chill out a bit. But the end result of that thing day after day after day after day is you lose that contact with the child that you're talking about.

WALLIS: And I'm glad you raised the television part, too.

CAFFERTY: Oh, yes.

WALLIS: It's a problem.

CAFFERTY: Computers, TV, sure.

WALLIS: Substituting those media experiences for real-life human interaction.

CAFFERTY: Claudia, it's nice to have you with us. Fascinating stuff -- troubling, but fascinating. Thank you.

Editor-at-large for "TIME" magazine, Claudia Wallis.

Just ahead, a shot in the arm for the flu bug, vaccines for the flu and other illnesses getting harder and harder to come why. Why you might ask? Well, we'll tell you. It has to do with a drive for profits and it's putting many Americans on the sick list. How much do you really know about money and investing in the markets? A new survey shows that investor illiteracy is a lot worse than you think. Allen Wastler checks in on that story. Details coming up.


SERWER: As the flu bug sweeps across the country, a shortage of vaccines to combat the illness gets worse by the day. But the current lack of medicine highlights a bigger problem in America, vaccines for all sorts of illnesses are becoming harder and harder to find.

Joining us now to talk about this is Frank Sloan, a professor of health management at Duke University. Welcome, Mr. Sloan.


SERWER: I just find this outrageous, that there is a shortage of vaccines. I'm the parent of two little kids. And my wife came up to me last night and said he have to get the kids vaccinated but the pediatrician said there isn't any vaccine. Why is this happening?

SLOAN: Well, last year, there wasn't an epidemic, or a very little -- there was very little flu and the companies ended up throwing some vaccine away, and we don't have a natural stockpile policy.

LISOVICZ: Why not? Why isn't there a national stockpile policy? We see kids dying that -- half the country is plagued with this and we're not even at the height of flu season.

SLOAN: There should be, but when things are going okay, there isn't much public discussion of it. Now we see very graphically the importance of having a stockpile or some excess capacity to either private or done by government.

CAFFERTY: How about the number of companies that make this stuff? The number's gone down dramatically recently. Why?

SLOAN: Very dramatically. From -- well, for flu, we only have two. But more generally, in the U.S. there are only -- there are only five vaccine manufacturers. Several years ago, there were 20 to 25. So there've been a dwindling over a whole number of years.

CAFFERTY: Why has the number gotten smaller?

SLOAN: And we think the reason. And, we, because I chaired a study of the istitute of medicine, the committee concluded there wasn't enough profit in vaccines.

SERWER: Let me turn that on its head, then. Would the company who are making the vaccine now be reaping a whole windfall of profits and which companies are those?

SLOAN: There are only two companies that are producing the vaccine. They have already distributed the vaccine. And they have no more to sell. So if there was a windfall, it would have to happen downstream.

SERWER: Which companies are those?

SLOAN: Chiron and Eventus Pasteur.

CAFFERTY: Is there any government agency charged with seeing whether or not the welfare of the population is being attended to by the private sector, i.e., companies that are supposed to be making vaccines so Andy's children can get flu shots? Is anybody in Washington responsible for this?

SLOAN: The Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta is responsible for infectious disease in general and for flu in particular.

CAFFERTY: So why is there a shortage of vaccine? Why can't they pick up the phone say we need this stuff, where is it, it's your yob to have it available?

SLOAN: It can't be manufactured -- it takes four months to manufacture the vaccine.

CAFFERTY: But flu season comes along every year doesn't it? Don't we know that?

SLOAN: It does. But last year they needed fewer than 80 million doses. They threw away 10 million doses or so. This year, we're going to need a whole lot more. A lot of people who should be getting the flu vaccine aren't getting it.

LISOVICZ: Right. The thing is Frank, from what I understand, the flu vaccine, it has a very short shelf life. But it really comes down to economics. The CDC, the Centers for Disease Control has been conservative in stockpiling, and there's no incentive for these manufacturers to make them in great numbers.

SLOAN: That's absolutely true.

LISOVICZ: Why doesn't the CDC or the government, give them some sort of incentive? We certainly do it in the farm industry, for instance?

SLOAN: Yes. In this industry we don't have, except maybe for the anti-infectives, we don't have this tremendous volatility and demand. Here we are for years we have sort of steady sales, and then now all of a sudden when we have an epidemic, there's this huge increase in demand. Clearly, there's a need for stockpiling, but the government needs to be pushed by the voting public to appropriate monies for this. It's going to cost money.

We have to be willing to throw away vaccine on average, just to be able to be prepared for the year when we have this epidemic. And it could be much worse, 1918, we had a variable epidemic with over 600,000 lost lives. Now that maybe only happens once a century, but given this vaccine isn't so costly. Certainly we should be prepared to have some access. SERWER: And just quickly, last question here. What about that nasal spray vaccine? That's available?

SLOAN: That is available, but it's available in limited doses, too. And it's only usable for people under 50. So for children 5 or 6 to 49. And the reason is that that vaccine is a live vaccine and causes a little flu, and they don't want to give that vaccine to people who are vulnerable. You know, much more at risk.

LISOVICZ: We're going to have to leave it at that. Frank Sloan, professor of health policy and management at Duke University. Thanks so much for joining us.

SLOAN: Thank you.

LISOVICZ: Coming up, what you don't know can hurt you, especially on the bottom line. We'll look at a new survey showing many American investers are in the dark about their money.

And we don't want you to be in the dark. Drop us an e-mail and let us know at Jack Cafferty loves to read your e-mails!

CAFFERTY: You bet.

LISOVICZ: We'll be right back.


CAFFERTY: Wouldn't you think that people who don't know a lot about money in the markets would stay away from investing in the markets? Well, not so fast, there's a new report out shows that many American investors really in the dark about what they're doing with their money, and yet doesn't keep them away from putting it down in the stock market or other places. Joining us with more on this is our web master Allen Wastler, managing editor of

You know, you'd think after that big market bubble that led to everybody to get wiped out, that it would sink in, right? Not so.

ALLEN WASTLER, MONEY.COM: National Association Securities Dealers put together a nice investor quiz. They gave it to a test sample of over 1,000 people. People that have at least made an investment in recent history. And they -- only 35 percent passed. Here's one of the sample questions. I picked an easy one for you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Thank you.

WASTLER: This one's easy. If you buy a company stock, you own part of the company, you've leant money to the company, you're liable for the company's debts?

CAFFERTY: The answer's A.

WASTLER: Or the company will turn the original investment to you with interest?

CAFFERTY: Oh, there's more choices.

WASTLER: Yes, but you are right. The answer is A.

CAFFERTY: You buy a share of the company.

WASTLER: That was an easy question, right? 79 percent got that right. Which means 21 percent got it wrong. That's one out of five people.

Let's go with one of the harder questions. Okay? One of the harder questions.

CAFFERTY: You guys handle this.

WASTLER: A no-load mutual fund is one that, A., carries no fees, B., carries no sales charges. C., does not contain high-risk securities D. Has no limits on the period of time in which it can be bought and sold, and, E., Don't know.

SERWER: You can always answer E, because you don't know, so you can always be right. And be right. But the answer the B.

WASTLER: Very good, Andy! Very good.

SERWER: Did you know that? You knew that.

WASTLER: Only 21 percent of the people taking the test...

SERWER: That was kind of tricky, though because they had -- yes.

CAFFERTY: And yet what is the largest place in the stock market where people invest? It's in mutual funds.

WASTLER: In mutual funds.

CAFFERTY: So the most people go to mutual funds, yet most didn't know the answer.

WASTLER: Some of the questions are even more scary. The scariest one, beyond the only 35 percent passed, was that 62 percent did not know that they weren't insured against stock market losses, or thought they were.

LISOVICZ: That's shocking. Especially after the crash of the dotcom...

SERWER: You know, get your money back!

CAFFERTY: That's yet another reason for people to get their friends and neighbors together, have little IN THE MONEY parties on the weekend. Invite them into the house. Put several TVs up and we'll help you. That's why we're here, we're here to help you.

What about the fun side of the week? WASTLER: We've got "Return of the King" coming. Right?


WASTLER: So, I got a little treat for you.

CAFFERTY: All right.

WASTLER: I got Gollum raps. Okay?

CAFFERTY: What the heck?

That's actually very funny.

SERWER: There you go, baby!

LISOVICZ: He's got that Nike hat on!

SERWER: Smeagol is a creepy dude.

CAFFERTY: That looks a little like the guy who answers all the viewer e-mails. Jake? A little bit

SERWER: Oh! Come on!

CAFFERTY: Happy holidays. Thank you, Allen.

We'll be back. Just ahead, we'll read some of those e-mails. If you want to get your thoughts aired here on the program, you have to write in. You can do that, Back after this.


CAFFERTY: Time now for my favorite part of program each week. Checking your responses to our question about "whether you use the Internet to goof off while on the job." And more importantly, whether any of you told the truth.

Alex in California wrote this, "I spend very little time using the Internet, but because I spend 60 hours a week, I do have to use the Internet at work to do vital errands like banking. My hours are so out of control I told my boss I was going to need to use to make sure I had food."

SERWER: Wow! Life is tough.

CAFFERTY: Yes. Life is difficult.

Dorothy in Pennsylvania writes this, "I have no time to use the Internet at work, but don't be too quick to blame the Web for lost productivity. The people who have time to surf the net 4 hours a day probably would find another way to goof off even without computers."

That's true. I can remember my days in school long before there were computers.

SERWER: And then there's golf.

CAFFERTY: Stephen wrote this, "I find it hard to believe that Jack Cafferty would cover a story about goofing off at work. this just seems so unlike him. I would not expect him to encourage sloth."

SERWER: Oh, yes.

CAFFERTY: There you go.

Now our e-mail question for this week, "what can be done to curb the rise in preschool violence? You can send us your thoughts on this at We'll read some of them next week or you can visit our show page at Just make sure the boss doesn't see you surfing our web pages on the job.

You know this thing about preschool violence, very disturbing, troubling stuff. Is it the media? Probably to an extent. Is it two- income households the parents come home from working two jobs? Like the guys says, working 60 hours a week so exhausted they don't have the time to sit down with the little ones? The one thing is for certain. They've got to be isolated; the violent, troublesome ones have got to be taken out of the learning environment, because the kids who aren't that way, there trying to learn, don't have any shot at all if you've got a classroom full of wild animals.

SERWER: Those really are extreme cases. I know when my kids act up, and happened before when the teacher say, the kids are a little -- it's always after we've both been working incredible hours. There's a direct correlation there. We take a step back, spend more time with them and things settle down. The quality time, it really is important.

LISOVICZ: Two words. Time out!

SERWER: Listen to you.

Just sit in the corner.

She wants to bring back the dunce cap, too.

CAFFERTY: I heard those words a lot. Time-out!

That's it. Thank you for joining us for this edition of IN THE MONEY. Appreciate you for visiting with us this afternoon.

Our thanks to the regular gang here, CNN financial correspondent Susan Lisovicz, "Fortune" magazine editor-at-large Andy Serwer. Join us tomorrow, 3:00 Eastern time, for a look at our efforts to fight the roots of terrorism in the Muslim world.

Some say engaging Islam, the fundamentalists anyway, is the best plan. Others say more a policy of containment. We'll explore that tomorrow and other issues, tomorrow, 3:00 Eastern on IN THE MONEY. Thank you for today, and we hope to see you then.


Very Young Children On Rise In Schools; What Is Your Stock Market Literacy Rate?>

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