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CNN Live Sunday

Saddam Captured: Interview With Michael Elliott

Aired December 14, 2003 - 14:24   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The capture of Saddam Hussein is not the end of anything and yet it's the best news imaginable, so writes our next guest, in the online version of "Time" magazine today. Check it out online. Time.com.
For more on the message, this capture sends the Arab street, as they call it, we're joined by Michael Elliot, who is "Time" magazine's editor-at-large. He joins us from New York.

Hello, Michael.

MICHAEL ELLIOTT, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME": Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of the message that it does send to the Arab street? It says something about American potency, doesn't it?

ELLIOTT: It's hugely important. I think it's almost impossible to overestimate its importance. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, for that matter, have been symbol of defiance and symbols of the idea that the United States, with all its incredible military prowess is not invincible. That there were things that the United States couldn't do, it couldn't even catch Saddam Hussein. Well, today it did.

I think that sends a tremendous message of the power of the American military machine and the extent to which the United States eventually gets things done. So I think this resonates not just in Iraq, but for all the reasons your reporters and analysts have said, it is of extreme importance. It resonates throughout the region and in places like Europe, too, for that matter.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the region, and let's talk about Afghanistan. Let's talk about Osama bin Laden. To what extent does this help in the pursuit of bin Laden, if at all?

ELLIOTT: Well, it would be a very long chain before you kind of really got to the some measurable impact. I think what it does do is convince people that the United States is serious when it pursues these people that it's after. That it stays on the case. And in the end, it gets its man.

I don't think there's going to be any direct benefit in terms of the hunt for Osama bin Laden, though it may make people think once more that the United States eventually tends to up winning this sort of fight. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the rest of the world and the reaction to this. The U.S. has been pretty much going it alone. Does this change the tone and tenor of the pitch when the Bush administration goes out to the world, for example, says let's forgive the Iraqi debt?

ELLIOTT: Well, in my view it does. There's a natural tendency in a moment like this, as Ken Pollack, and others, have said, to be careful, to be properly careful. And say, you know, this doesn't change everything to the flick of a switch. And of course, Ken and others are absolutely right.

But I think it does change the atmospherics in the way in which the occupation of Iraq is viewed around the world. The United States and it's coalition partners have not had a ton of massive successes in the last four or five months. And it has been rather easy to kind of mock the muscle bound, if you like, inability to secure some of their main objectives.

Well now, they've secured objective number one, which is the capture of Saddam Hussein. And I really do think that that changes the dynamic of the way in which the occupation is seen in the Middle East and other places, too.

To what extent is it possible, Michael, that this would somehow embolden the insurgency in some way? It's clear, it seems, from the fact that he didn't even have a cell phone with him, Saddam Hussein was not orchestrating this. To the extent they're still out there, and acting autonomously, might they wish to engage in attacks even more now?

ELLIOTT: I think it's certainly possible that that's the case. You know, Elliot's Iron (ph) Law of insurgency is to remember the Irish Republican Army, who never had more than about 300 fighters under arms at any one time, and managed to tied up half the British army, the best anti-guerrilla force in the world for 25 years. So you don't need an awful lot of people under arms to do a successful insurgency.

Iraq is awash in weapons, RPGs, ammunition, what have you. And certainly, there are some people who, as you say, might be emboldened by the Saddam's capture to redouble their attacks on what they see as the enemy.

However, I think symbols matter. I think symbols really matter. And they particularly matter in the Middle East and I think the symbolic virtue of not just pulling down a statue -- statute of Saddam Hussein but actually catching him in a rat hole and making it absolutely clear he is in American custody has an enormous affect on people's perception of who is winning this war.

So I think this is a big deal. I may be proved wrong. But I think this is a really big deal and I think that it will play itself out in Iraq and in the wider region.

O'BRIEN: Michael Elliott, editor-at-large for "Time" thank you for being with us.

ELLIOTT: OK, Miles.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 14, 2003 - 14:24   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The capture of Saddam Hussein is not the end of anything and yet it's the best news imaginable, so writes our next guest, in the online version of "Time" magazine today. Check it out online. Time.com.
For more on the message, this capture sends the Arab street, as they call it, we're joined by Michael Elliot, who is "Time" magazine's editor-at-large. He joins us from New York.

Hello, Michael.

MICHAEL ELLIOTT, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME": Hi, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of the message that it does send to the Arab street? It says something about American potency, doesn't it?

ELLIOTT: It's hugely important. I think it's almost impossible to overestimate its importance. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, for that matter, have been symbol of defiance and symbols of the idea that the United States, with all its incredible military prowess is not invincible. That there were things that the United States couldn't do, it couldn't even catch Saddam Hussein. Well, today it did.

I think that sends a tremendous message of the power of the American military machine and the extent to which the United States eventually gets things done. So I think this resonates not just in Iraq, but for all the reasons your reporters and analysts have said, it is of extreme importance. It resonates throughout the region and in places like Europe, too, for that matter.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the region, and let's talk about Afghanistan. Let's talk about Osama bin Laden. To what extent does this help in the pursuit of bin Laden, if at all?

ELLIOTT: Well, it would be a very long chain before you kind of really got to the some measurable impact. I think what it does do is convince people that the United States is serious when it pursues these people that it's after. That it stays on the case. And in the end, it gets its man.

I don't think there's going to be any direct benefit in terms of the hunt for Osama bin Laden, though it may make people think once more that the United States eventually tends to up winning this sort of fight. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the rest of the world and the reaction to this. The U.S. has been pretty much going it alone. Does this change the tone and tenor of the pitch when the Bush administration goes out to the world, for example, says let's forgive the Iraqi debt?

ELLIOTT: Well, in my view it does. There's a natural tendency in a moment like this, as Ken Pollack, and others, have said, to be careful, to be properly careful. And say, you know, this doesn't change everything to the flick of a switch. And of course, Ken and others are absolutely right.

But I think it does change the atmospherics in the way in which the occupation of Iraq is viewed around the world. The United States and it's coalition partners have not had a ton of massive successes in the last four or five months. And it has been rather easy to kind of mock the muscle bound, if you like, inability to secure some of their main objectives.

Well now, they've secured objective number one, which is the capture of Saddam Hussein. And I really do think that that changes the dynamic of the way in which the occupation is seen in the Middle East and other places, too.

To what extent is it possible, Michael, that this would somehow embolden the insurgency in some way? It's clear, it seems, from the fact that he didn't even have a cell phone with him, Saddam Hussein was not orchestrating this. To the extent they're still out there, and acting autonomously, might they wish to engage in attacks even more now?

ELLIOTT: I think it's certainly possible that that's the case. You know, Elliot's Iron (ph) Law of insurgency is to remember the Irish Republican Army, who never had more than about 300 fighters under arms at any one time, and managed to tied up half the British army, the best anti-guerrilla force in the world for 25 years. So you don't need an awful lot of people under arms to do a successful insurgency.

Iraq is awash in weapons, RPGs, ammunition, what have you. And certainly, there are some people who, as you say, might be emboldened by the Saddam's capture to redouble their attacks on what they see as the enemy.

However, I think symbols matter. I think symbols really matter. And they particularly matter in the Middle East and I think the symbolic virtue of not just pulling down a statue -- statute of Saddam Hussein but actually catching him in a rat hole and making it absolutely clear he is in American custody has an enormous affect on people's perception of who is winning this war.

So I think this is a big deal. I may be proved wrong. But I think this is a really big deal and I think that it will play itself out in Iraq and in the wider region.

O'BRIEN: Michael Elliott, editor-at-large for "Time" thank you for being with us.

ELLIOTT: OK, Miles.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com