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CNN Live At Daybreak

Saddam Hussein Gave Up Without a Fight

Aired December 15, 2003 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Our correspondents in Iraq tell us that Saddam Hussein gave up without a fight. This is video from the farm near Tikrit where the former Iraqi leader was captured over the weekend. He's now being questioned at an undisclosed location, but our correspondents in Iraq say the former strongman isn't giving up much. Authorities want to know who is behind attacks on Iraqi police and coalition troops. Saddam ain't talking.
And while Saddam undergoes that questioning, the attacks on Iraqi police have not let up. There have been two today, one in the northern suburbs, the other west of the city.

Our Satinder Bindra live in Baghdad with more details for you -- hello, Satinder.

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol, and good morning.

As you said, two car bomb attacks this morning. Both took place within minutes of each other. The first car bomb went off just north of Baghdad. And a senior police officer tells us now that six Iraqi policemen have been killed. The other car bomb went off in western Baghdad. And in this case, the car bomber, too, was killed. In the second car bomb, some seven police officers have been injured.

Despite this violence, Carol, I must say that there is a prevailing sense of optimism here, at least in Baghdad, and this morning supporters of the Communist Party here turned up in large numbers, hundreds came out onto the streets. They waved banners. They were hugging each other. They were singing and dancing. And they were celebrating the capture of Saddam Hussein.

Many people here believe the capture of Saddam Hussein is a turning point in Iraqi history. They are looking forward now to an era of reconciliation and they are hoping they can rebuild this country as soon as possible -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, you know, Satinder, the big hope here now that Saddam is in custody, it's hope that some of the Iraqi people will come forward to rat out these insurgents.

BINDRA: That's right. And, in fact, Carol, the U.S. intelligence at this moment is also hoping that Saddam Hussein can give them information that leads them towards these insurgents, because several Iraqi policemen and, indeed, U.S. soldiers have suffered heavy casualties over the past five to 10 days even here. The hope on the street is, Carol, that with Saddam Hussein's capture, the attacks against coalition troops will come down. The situation in the north, though, in Tikrit, is slightly different. There many people are continuing to predict that these attacks against U.S. forces will continue -- back to you now.

COSTELLO: Satinder Bindra bringing us up to date live from Baghdad this morning.

We sure appreciate it.

Well, the Democrats are reacting this morning. It puts them in kind of a sticky political situation, doesn't it? Saddam's capture, I mean.

The Democrats who are running for president had these things to say.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to first congratulate our extraordinary military on an extraordinary and an extraordinary success. This, I hope, will change the course of the occupation of Iraq.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was one of the steps that had to be taken and that's why I congratulate the men and women for it. I want our country to succeed. But that doesn't change the fact that we began a war that, in my view, wasn't necessary.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We deserve to have a policy that is now going to reach out. This is a great moment for the president of the United States. It is a moment to reach out to the world with some humility and recognize that everybody has a stake in the outcome in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Our Web site has launched a special report on Saddam Hussein's capture. It features great interactive galleys, profiles and in depth reports. Click onto cnn.com, AOL keyword: CNN.

Saddam wasted no time in surrendering to U.S. troops who found him cowering in that hole.

Nic Robertson is just back from the farm where that hole was dug into the ground -- Nic, what can you tell us about this farm.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a very small farm. It's about 15 kilometers, 10 miles down the river from here. It's very disheveled. There are basically two small rooms. One of the rooms had two beds in it. It's a very rough building. It has breeze blocks and mud that make the walls. The room that had the beds in it appeared to also have a bookcase in it, a refrigerator, a small electric heater. There were clothes strewn all over the floor, a handful of books on a bookcase, some of them still in their wrappers still unopened. And there were unopened packages of clothes on the floor, as well, brand new clothes, a pair of boxer shorts unopened lying on the bed.

In the kitchen, the kitchen, there was rotting fruit, bananas, kiwi fruit, melon, dates. There didn't seem to be any shortage of good quality fruits in the kitchen. There were tins of Spam, pots of jam lying around. But, again, a mess, sort of this room was sort of half inside and half outside.

What was very interesting was the actual hole in the ground where Saddam Hussein was hiding. I got down inside there and had a look. It's very small on the inside. You go down a tiny hole, perhaps about four or five feet deep, and then in front of you, as you go down into that hole, is an area perhaps six feet long, two to three feet across, perhaps three feet high, a very small area, the sort of area a man could only just about lie down in.

We learned a very interesting detail today, as well. According to the troops, when they found Saddam Hussein, they lifted the lid on the hole. They were looking down the hole. They saw a pair of hands come up and Saddam Hussein emerged saying, "I am Saddam Hussein. I am president of Iraq and I want to negotiate."

Now, according to the troops we talked to, the response the troops gave was President Bush sends his regards. And then immediately after that, we are told, he was whisked out of the hole, checked, sort of debriefed on the spot before being taken away to a waiting helicopter close by -- Carol.

COSTELLO: He really thought he was in a position to negotiate?

ROBERTSON: That does seem bizarre, but that's what we're being told. When he came out, he was still saying, "I'm the president of Iraq," something I think everyone else in Iraq has really managed to put behind them, but clearly he hadn't when he emerged. And he thought that he had something to negotiate with. Perhaps he felt he had information about future attacks on the coalition, about weapons of mass destruction, any number of things. Perhaps he thought those were going to be his bargaining chips.

But he didn't get a response in the positive about the negotiations. He was merely told president -- he was merely told that he was going to be taken out of the hole and taken away. "President Bush send his regards," was the message given to him immediately after pulled out of the hole and taken away -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. Really fascinating.

I have a couple of questions about this farm.

Do we know who owns the farm? And the people who were arrested along with Saddam Hussein, do we know who they are? ROBERTSON: One of them was a farm owner. This is not a particularly wealthy farm. It's sort of right on the banks of the Tigris. The buildings we saw where Saddam Hussein was hiding were really one or two tiny rooms, very ramshackle. There were some larger farm buildings close by and we're told one of the farmers was arrested. Very interestingly, one of the soldiers told me today they had walked past this particular compound, where Saddam Hussein was captured, many times before. They say they don't know if he was hiding inside. They had no reason to go in.

They also told me that one soldier at one time, they had taken a weapon away, an AK-47 away from a woman who lived in that compound and they had returned at a subsequent date to return the weapon to her, because as it was the only weapon in her house, they decided under current laws in Iraq she could have this weapon.

So they've even been to this location before, been to this particular farm building and tried to return a weapon.

So it's not clear exactly who owns the farm, but certainly one of the people owning one of the farms was taken away and is being detained along with Saddam Hussein and one other person -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I know you may not know the answer to this, but how often did he supposedly come up out of this hole and use that taxi, perhaps, that was also found at that farm?

ROBERTSON: Well, that's -- it's a very, very good question. I can only judge it, perhaps, from what I'm told by the coalition, that they say that they think that he moved as often as three -- as frequently as three, he was spending up to three to four hours in one place before moving on. And perhaps if I can judge it from the confined nature of that space, it's not the sort of space you'd want to spend a long time in.

There was an electric light run in there. There was a fan to pump air to some tubes that led off to the side. But it was a very, very confined space. And, really, one would feel relatively uncomfortable in there within a matter of hours -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

Fascinating information this morning.

Nic Robertson reporting live, just having come from that farm where Saddam Hussein was captured.

Saddam's capture and those humiliating pictures of him are what the world is talking about.

It's also the focus of our international wrap this morning.

Our senior international editor, David Clinch, joins us now.

The pictures are...

DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Carol, amazing stuff.

COSTELLO: Oh, you're not kidding.

CLINCH: The pictures are incredible. Our coverage has been very, very interesting, not just, you know, the technological side of having video phones and satellites and everything in the right place, but the combination of having the right technology and the right people in the right place. I mean what Alphonso Van Marsh was able to do for us over the weekend, giving us a big head start on this story, seeing those soldiers returning from what turned out to be the capture of Saddam, picking up on the idea that they were ecstatic, high fiving each other, able to work out quickly something was going on, letting us know.

Our people in Baghdad made calls. We were well ahead on the story because we were able to be in the right place at the right time.

COSTELLO: And some of the fascinating information like what Saddam said when these soldiers came to get him.

CLINCH: Well, again, the right reporter in the right place. Nic is right there at the farm today hearing this stuff. The one thing I thought that struck me as very interesting, that the, not only that Saddam said what he said, but that he said it, apparently, in English, "I am the president of Iraq. I am Saddam Hussein. I want to negotiate." Fascinating stuff.

And then the curiously polite response from the soldiers, according to them, at least, that President Bush sends his regards.

COSTELLO: And you can you imagine the immense control that that took just to say those words?

CLINCH: Right. Perhaps there might have been some self- censorship. I'm not going to say that. But certainly, you know, fascinating stuff, and more to come, I'm sure, as we learn more about who those individuals are. We're trying to get interviews, if we can, set up with the actual soldiers who went into that hole. That will be fantastic stuff.

COSTELLO: And not only that, but Nic was talking a little bit about who owned the farm, and this was sort of a ramshackle place.

CLINCH: Right.

COSTELLO: I mean, did the neighbors know that Saddam Hussein was in this hole nearby?

CLINCH: That is one of the things that we're trying to find out. Of course, the suggestion from the coalition is that this wasn't the only hole he had and perhaps holes in other farms in other parts of Iraq and traveling, as Nic has pointed out, as frequently as every three hours or so. And taxis outside.

Although one thing was interesting. We were reminded that the U.S., in observing or trying to get a handle on where Saddam was even before the war, was under the impression that he was moving all the time then and moving from house to house and using taxis and other vehicles. So he's been used to this for quite some time.

COSTELLO: You know something interesting? Because before the war we always heard that Iraq had this intricate underground tunnel system and he had these secret bunkers.

This is his secret bunker?

CLINCH: Right. Well, there are and there were secret bunkers and we were shown those after the war, under palaces and those kind of things. But you're right. I mean he's found in a hole with rats, or at least that's the way it was described to us.

COSTELLO: Unbelievable.

CLINCH: An ignominious end for Saddam Hussein, although, of course, not the absolute end and a fascinating next step, the legal process, is he a prisoner of war under international law, what are they going to do with him? The trial. It's not over yet.

COSTELLO: No, it's not.

CLINCH: Some very interesting coverage to come.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll let you get back to work.

CLINCH: OK.

COSTELLO: David, many thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired December 15, 2003 - 05:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Our correspondents in Iraq tell us that Saddam Hussein gave up without a fight. This is video from the farm near Tikrit where the former Iraqi leader was captured over the weekend. He's now being questioned at an undisclosed location, but our correspondents in Iraq say the former strongman isn't giving up much. Authorities want to know who is behind attacks on Iraqi police and coalition troops. Saddam ain't talking.
And while Saddam undergoes that questioning, the attacks on Iraqi police have not let up. There have been two today, one in the northern suburbs, the other west of the city.

Our Satinder Bindra live in Baghdad with more details for you -- hello, Satinder.

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol, and good morning.

As you said, two car bomb attacks this morning. Both took place within minutes of each other. The first car bomb went off just north of Baghdad. And a senior police officer tells us now that six Iraqi policemen have been killed. The other car bomb went off in western Baghdad. And in this case, the car bomber, too, was killed. In the second car bomb, some seven police officers have been injured.

Despite this violence, Carol, I must say that there is a prevailing sense of optimism here, at least in Baghdad, and this morning supporters of the Communist Party here turned up in large numbers, hundreds came out onto the streets. They waved banners. They were hugging each other. They were singing and dancing. And they were celebrating the capture of Saddam Hussein.

Many people here believe the capture of Saddam Hussein is a turning point in Iraqi history. They are looking forward now to an era of reconciliation and they are hoping they can rebuild this country as soon as possible -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, you know, Satinder, the big hope here now that Saddam is in custody, it's hope that some of the Iraqi people will come forward to rat out these insurgents.

BINDRA: That's right. And, in fact, Carol, the U.S. intelligence at this moment is also hoping that Saddam Hussein can give them information that leads them towards these insurgents, because several Iraqi policemen and, indeed, U.S. soldiers have suffered heavy casualties over the past five to 10 days even here. The hope on the street is, Carol, that with Saddam Hussein's capture, the attacks against coalition troops will come down. The situation in the north, though, in Tikrit, is slightly different. There many people are continuing to predict that these attacks against U.S. forces will continue -- back to you now.

COSTELLO: Satinder Bindra bringing us up to date live from Baghdad this morning.

We sure appreciate it.

Well, the Democrats are reacting this morning. It puts them in kind of a sticky political situation, doesn't it? Saddam's capture, I mean.

The Democrats who are running for president had these things to say.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to first congratulate our extraordinary military on an extraordinary and an extraordinary success. This, I hope, will change the course of the occupation of Iraq.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was one of the steps that had to be taken and that's why I congratulate the men and women for it. I want our country to succeed. But that doesn't change the fact that we began a war that, in my view, wasn't necessary.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We deserve to have a policy that is now going to reach out. This is a great moment for the president of the United States. It is a moment to reach out to the world with some humility and recognize that everybody has a stake in the outcome in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Our Web site has launched a special report on Saddam Hussein's capture. It features great interactive galleys, profiles and in depth reports. Click onto cnn.com, AOL keyword: CNN.

Saddam wasted no time in surrendering to U.S. troops who found him cowering in that hole.

Nic Robertson is just back from the farm where that hole was dug into the ground -- Nic, what can you tell us about this farm.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a very small farm. It's about 15 kilometers, 10 miles down the river from here. It's very disheveled. There are basically two small rooms. One of the rooms had two beds in it. It's a very rough building. It has breeze blocks and mud that make the walls. The room that had the beds in it appeared to also have a bookcase in it, a refrigerator, a small electric heater. There were clothes strewn all over the floor, a handful of books on a bookcase, some of them still in their wrappers still unopened. And there were unopened packages of clothes on the floor, as well, brand new clothes, a pair of boxer shorts unopened lying on the bed.

In the kitchen, the kitchen, there was rotting fruit, bananas, kiwi fruit, melon, dates. There didn't seem to be any shortage of good quality fruits in the kitchen. There were tins of Spam, pots of jam lying around. But, again, a mess, sort of this room was sort of half inside and half outside.

What was very interesting was the actual hole in the ground where Saddam Hussein was hiding. I got down inside there and had a look. It's very small on the inside. You go down a tiny hole, perhaps about four or five feet deep, and then in front of you, as you go down into that hole, is an area perhaps six feet long, two to three feet across, perhaps three feet high, a very small area, the sort of area a man could only just about lie down in.

We learned a very interesting detail today, as well. According to the troops, when they found Saddam Hussein, they lifted the lid on the hole. They were looking down the hole. They saw a pair of hands come up and Saddam Hussein emerged saying, "I am Saddam Hussein. I am president of Iraq and I want to negotiate."

Now, according to the troops we talked to, the response the troops gave was President Bush sends his regards. And then immediately after that, we are told, he was whisked out of the hole, checked, sort of debriefed on the spot before being taken away to a waiting helicopter close by -- Carol.

COSTELLO: He really thought he was in a position to negotiate?

ROBERTSON: That does seem bizarre, but that's what we're being told. When he came out, he was still saying, "I'm the president of Iraq," something I think everyone else in Iraq has really managed to put behind them, but clearly he hadn't when he emerged. And he thought that he had something to negotiate with. Perhaps he felt he had information about future attacks on the coalition, about weapons of mass destruction, any number of things. Perhaps he thought those were going to be his bargaining chips.

But he didn't get a response in the positive about the negotiations. He was merely told president -- he was merely told that he was going to be taken out of the hole and taken away. "President Bush send his regards," was the message given to him immediately after pulled out of the hole and taken away -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. Really fascinating.

I have a couple of questions about this farm.

Do we know who owns the farm? And the people who were arrested along with Saddam Hussein, do we know who they are? ROBERTSON: One of them was a farm owner. This is not a particularly wealthy farm. It's sort of right on the banks of the Tigris. The buildings we saw where Saddam Hussein was hiding were really one or two tiny rooms, very ramshackle. There were some larger farm buildings close by and we're told one of the farmers was arrested. Very interestingly, one of the soldiers told me today they had walked past this particular compound, where Saddam Hussein was captured, many times before. They say they don't know if he was hiding inside. They had no reason to go in.

They also told me that one soldier at one time, they had taken a weapon away, an AK-47 away from a woman who lived in that compound and they had returned at a subsequent date to return the weapon to her, because as it was the only weapon in her house, they decided under current laws in Iraq she could have this weapon.

So they've even been to this location before, been to this particular farm building and tried to return a weapon.

So it's not clear exactly who owns the farm, but certainly one of the people owning one of the farms was taken away and is being detained along with Saddam Hussein and one other person -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I know you may not know the answer to this, but how often did he supposedly come up out of this hole and use that taxi, perhaps, that was also found at that farm?

ROBERTSON: Well, that's -- it's a very, very good question. I can only judge it, perhaps, from what I'm told by the coalition, that they say that they think that he moved as often as three -- as frequently as three, he was spending up to three to four hours in one place before moving on. And perhaps if I can judge it from the confined nature of that space, it's not the sort of space you'd want to spend a long time in.

There was an electric light run in there. There was a fan to pump air to some tubes that led off to the side. But it was a very, very confined space. And, really, one would feel relatively uncomfortable in there within a matter of hours -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

Fascinating information this morning.

Nic Robertson reporting live, just having come from that farm where Saddam Hussein was captured.

Saddam's capture and those humiliating pictures of him are what the world is talking about.

It's also the focus of our international wrap this morning.

Our senior international editor, David Clinch, joins us now.

The pictures are...

DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Carol, amazing stuff.

COSTELLO: Oh, you're not kidding.

CLINCH: The pictures are incredible. Our coverage has been very, very interesting, not just, you know, the technological side of having video phones and satellites and everything in the right place, but the combination of having the right technology and the right people in the right place. I mean what Alphonso Van Marsh was able to do for us over the weekend, giving us a big head start on this story, seeing those soldiers returning from what turned out to be the capture of Saddam, picking up on the idea that they were ecstatic, high fiving each other, able to work out quickly something was going on, letting us know.

Our people in Baghdad made calls. We were well ahead on the story because we were able to be in the right place at the right time.

COSTELLO: And some of the fascinating information like what Saddam said when these soldiers came to get him.

CLINCH: Well, again, the right reporter in the right place. Nic is right there at the farm today hearing this stuff. The one thing I thought that struck me as very interesting, that the, not only that Saddam said what he said, but that he said it, apparently, in English, "I am the president of Iraq. I am Saddam Hussein. I want to negotiate." Fascinating stuff.

And then the curiously polite response from the soldiers, according to them, at least, that President Bush sends his regards.

COSTELLO: And you can you imagine the immense control that that took just to say those words?

CLINCH: Right. Perhaps there might have been some self- censorship. I'm not going to say that. But certainly, you know, fascinating stuff, and more to come, I'm sure, as we learn more about who those individuals are. We're trying to get interviews, if we can, set up with the actual soldiers who went into that hole. That will be fantastic stuff.

COSTELLO: And not only that, but Nic was talking a little bit about who owned the farm, and this was sort of a ramshackle place.

CLINCH: Right.

COSTELLO: I mean, did the neighbors know that Saddam Hussein was in this hole nearby?

CLINCH: That is one of the things that we're trying to find out. Of course, the suggestion from the coalition is that this wasn't the only hole he had and perhaps holes in other farms in other parts of Iraq and traveling, as Nic has pointed out, as frequently as every three hours or so. And taxis outside.

Although one thing was interesting. We were reminded that the U.S., in observing or trying to get a handle on where Saddam was even before the war, was under the impression that he was moving all the time then and moving from house to house and using taxis and other vehicles. So he's been used to this for quite some time.

COSTELLO: You know something interesting? Because before the war we always heard that Iraq had this intricate underground tunnel system and he had these secret bunkers.

This is his secret bunker?

CLINCH: Right. Well, there are and there were secret bunkers and we were shown those after the war, under palaces and those kind of things. But you're right. I mean he's found in a hole with rats, or at least that's the way it was described to us.

COSTELLO: Unbelievable.

CLINCH: An ignominious end for Saddam Hussein, although, of course, not the absolute end and a fascinating next step, the legal process, is he a prisoner of war under international law, what are they going to do with him? The trial. It's not over yet.

COSTELLO: No, it's not.

CLINCH: Some very interesting coverage to come.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll let you get back to work.

CLINCH: OK.

COSTELLO: David, many thanks.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com