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American Morning

Saddam Interrogation

Aired December 16, 2003 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now that they have Saddam Hussein, interrogators have been pressing, as Jane mentioned, him for details on the Iraqi insurgency and on Iraqi weapons program. Can they get him to talk? President Bush is not optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He didn't tell the truth for over a decade. I just can't believe he's going to change his ways just because he happens to be captured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: So, what can interrogators do? Kelly McCann is a former U.S. Marine officer specializing in counterterrorism, and he is now a private security consultant and also a CNN contributor. He joins us live in Baghdad this morning.

Kelly, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

Interesting strategy here. We have read and heard reports about being asked the tough questions first of Saddam Hussein. Pretty much the moments that he came out of this underground bunker, they asked him about weapons of mass destruction. They asked him about the insurgents. That's fairly unusual, isn't it?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is. Usually, time is used as an interrogation tool. I mean, anything that he could hold. He hasn't really suffered discomfort and his circadian rhythms are intact. The usual things haven't been allowed to occur yet. So, usually time is used. I obviously sensed a sense of urgency that in that kind of questioning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: So, what would the strategy be? I mean, considering the conditions that we can assume that he has lived under over the last eight months, is the strategy to make him more comfortable in order to sort of appease him and get him to give up more information? Or is the strategy to make him less comfortable so that he is annoyed and eventually just wants to talk.

MCCANN: Well, the process is usually done this way: First, they'll do a medical inventory, which you saw. We had pictures of them medically inventorying him to see what kind of condition he's in. Then he'll be assessed. That assessment team will not conduct his interrogation. They basically assess him to see what kind of personality he has. Remember that we really don't have a lot of one- on-one interaction, information about what kind of person he is. Once they establish those things, they'll give it to an interrogation team and they'll actually map out an interrogation strategy. And that could include feeding his ego. It could be some level of perceived humiliation. It might be, you know, manipulating his circadian rhythms by interrupting his sleep patterns, et cetera. It's very difficult to say, but it certainly will not include torture if the U.S. conducts it.

O'BRIEN: General Sanchez described Saddam Hussein as being essentially compliant, doing what he was told, moving and sitting when he was told to do so. Others have said he would actually ask questions, basically a wise-ass to quote them. Does that surprise you at all? Do you think that they'll change? And do you think that there is any hope in getting a wise ass to crack?

MCCANN: Well, there are a couple of things there. One is, of course, the wise ass comment that was quoted. Basically, you can imagine a head of state is now facing soldiers -- normal soldiers that he commanded previously. So, I'm sure that there that kind of condescension that we're going to have to deal with in dealing with him.

Secondly though, and more importantly, there is a passive way to deal with interrogation techniques, which I'm sure he's aware of. You comply, but you comply in your own time. You don't look like you're trying to help too much. You might when told to stand, stand, but not immediately. So, this begins the chess game, Soledad. It will be interesting.

O'BRIEN: A chess game from a guy who is said to have tortured many people in his own history. So, is it possible someone who is familiar with getting information out of people that he'll be able to sort of dodge the questions of interrogators? And where is the line, Kelly?

MCCANN: Not necessarily to the first part, because, Soledad, just because he had people who did torture and that he knew torture doesn't mean that he, as the head of state, was trained to endure torture. I'd be very surprised if a man with that ego ever let himself be trained.

On the second part if it, nobody will ever agree what is and what is not torture. Is sleep deprivation torture? There are circles of people that say it is. However, those same kinds of techniques are used to train U.S. military personnel, different levels of discomfort.

I think generally, when you start to hurt by maiming or by disfiguring, everyone would agree that that is torturous and also some uses of drugs, which the U.S. does not engage in. It will be totally a mental game.

O'BRIEN: Counterterrorism expert Kelly McCann for us this morning. Kelly, thanks. Nice to see you as always.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





Aired December 16, 2003 - 07:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now that they have Saddam Hussein, interrogators have been pressing, as Jane mentioned, him for details on the Iraqi insurgency and on Iraqi weapons program. Can they get him to talk? President Bush is not optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He didn't tell the truth for over a decade. I just can't believe he's going to change his ways just because he happens to be captured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: So, what can interrogators do? Kelly McCann is a former U.S. Marine officer specializing in counterterrorism, and he is now a private security consultant and also a CNN contributor. He joins us live in Baghdad this morning.

Kelly, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

Interesting strategy here. We have read and heard reports about being asked the tough questions first of Saddam Hussein. Pretty much the moments that he came out of this underground bunker, they asked him about weapons of mass destruction. They asked him about the insurgents. That's fairly unusual, isn't it?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is. Usually, time is used as an interrogation tool. I mean, anything that he could hold. He hasn't really suffered discomfort and his circadian rhythms are intact. The usual things haven't been allowed to occur yet. So, usually time is used. I obviously sensed a sense of urgency that in that kind of questioning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: So, what would the strategy be? I mean, considering the conditions that we can assume that he has lived under over the last eight months, is the strategy to make him more comfortable in order to sort of appease him and get him to give up more information? Or is the strategy to make him less comfortable so that he is annoyed and eventually just wants to talk.

MCCANN: Well, the process is usually done this way: First, they'll do a medical inventory, which you saw. We had pictures of them medically inventorying him to see what kind of condition he's in. Then he'll be assessed. That assessment team will not conduct his interrogation. They basically assess him to see what kind of personality he has. Remember that we really don't have a lot of one- on-one interaction, information about what kind of person he is. Once they establish those things, they'll give it to an interrogation team and they'll actually map out an interrogation strategy. And that could include feeding his ego. It could be some level of perceived humiliation. It might be, you know, manipulating his circadian rhythms by interrupting his sleep patterns, et cetera. It's very difficult to say, but it certainly will not include torture if the U.S. conducts it.

O'BRIEN: General Sanchez described Saddam Hussein as being essentially compliant, doing what he was told, moving and sitting when he was told to do so. Others have said he would actually ask questions, basically a wise-ass to quote them. Does that surprise you at all? Do you think that they'll change? And do you think that there is any hope in getting a wise ass to crack?

MCCANN: Well, there are a couple of things there. One is, of course, the wise ass comment that was quoted. Basically, you can imagine a head of state is now facing soldiers -- normal soldiers that he commanded previously. So, I'm sure that there that kind of condescension that we're going to have to deal with in dealing with him.

Secondly though, and more importantly, there is a passive way to deal with interrogation techniques, which I'm sure he's aware of. You comply, but you comply in your own time. You don't look like you're trying to help too much. You might when told to stand, stand, but not immediately. So, this begins the chess game, Soledad. It will be interesting.

O'BRIEN: A chess game from a guy who is said to have tortured many people in his own history. So, is it possible someone who is familiar with getting information out of people that he'll be able to sort of dodge the questions of interrogators? And where is the line, Kelly?

MCCANN: Not necessarily to the first part, because, Soledad, just because he had people who did torture and that he knew torture doesn't mean that he, as the head of state, was trained to endure torture. I'd be very surprised if a man with that ego ever let himself be trained.

On the second part if it, nobody will ever agree what is and what is not torture. Is sleep deprivation torture? There are circles of people that say it is. However, those same kinds of techniques are used to train U.S. military personnel, different levels of discomfort.

I think generally, when you start to hurt by maiming or by disfiguring, everyone would agree that that is torturous and also some uses of drugs, which the U.S. does not engage in. It will be totally a mental game.

O'BRIEN: Counterterrorism expert Kelly McCann for us this morning. Kelly, thanks. Nice to see you as always.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.