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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With Doug Bandow
Aired December 21, 2003 - 10:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, ANCHOR: In the week since Saddam Hussein was plucked by U.S. soldiers from a hole in the ground, the former Iraqi leader's mood has been occasionally feisty, other times subdued. That according to top American administrator Paul Bremer.
In an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," Bremer said the capture of Saddam Hussein has provided useful intelligence to the United States, but the man himself has generally not been Cooperative with his captors.
Iraq and the United States and the coalition will face many legal decisions in trying the ousted Iraqi leader. Now, the proposal for a war crimes tribunal has been drafted, but many specifics simply remain undecided.
Now we focus on the fallout from Saddam's capture with Doug Bandow. He is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C.
Doug, thanks a lot for being with us here this morning. We certainly appreciate it.
DOUG BANDOW, CATO INSTITUTE: Happy to be with you all.
CALLEBS: OK. In the words of Paul Bremer, we got him. What next? History is going to look very closely at what happens.
Universally, it seems that a lot of people would like to see Saddam Hussein punished for his 30-plus years of running the country, but how is this going to play out?
BANDOW: Well, he certainly deserves to be punished. I think this is very good news to the Iraqi people.
I'd like to see him tried in Iraq. I think we should say this is primarily the responsibility of the Iraqi people. His crimes were clearly directed at the Iraqi people. And it's a way to show the Iraqis are getting sovereignty back.
I think it's a good way for the U.S. to say we are giving authority back to the Iraqis. You all are going to come up with the judgment, come up with a fair process and punish him. And I think that the U.S. will receive a lot of credit for that.
CALLEBS: And also a lot of focus on how they're getting information from -- how they are getting information. What they're going to do with it and any concern that perhaps, the Geneva Convention may be violated, the way that the coalition is going about getting this information.
BANDOW: I suppose one could make that argument. But you know, this is the former dictator who's been a real thug. I wouldn't worry an awful lot about the literal words of the Geneva Convention dealing with Saddam Hussein. This is a mass murderer.
He's being treated much better than he treated the Iraqi people. So this strikes me as being, kind of pedagogue at its worst.
CALLEBS: We shouldn't lose sight of that at all. Do you think this is the beginning of the end for the coalition troops that are in Iraq right now?
BANDOW: Well, we can certainly hope that it's the beginning of the end of the insurgency, but I think we have to be very careful here. It's clear that that insurgency is fairly broad based and it's more than just Ba'athists. It also includes al Qaeda types.
And I'm worried a bit about it may create impatience on the part of the Iraqi people. Their view may now be, "We don't have to choose between the U.S. and Saddam. We want authority, faster, quicker, give it to us."
So the U.S. has to be very careful here.
CALLEBS: And Doug, there are still thugs out there. I mean, some of his real henchmen are apparently out there running things. And so often it seems that the U.S. led troops are there basically just getting potshots at them day in and day out.
BANDOW: Absolutely, and part of the difficulty is that we have to recognize the tougher law in terms of enforcement, and the more danger it is, we're going to make enemies.
If we shoot people by accident. They string up barbed wire around communities. You raid people's homes. You're going to create some resentment in communities outside of the Ba'athists, and that, I think, is another problem we're dealing with right now.
CALLEBS: Any surprise to you that Saddam Hussein is being so argumentative at times? And do you think he's going to lead the U.S. to some of his real henchmen?
BANDOW: It's hard to image what incentive he has to Cooperate. I think when I watch American officials saying no, he's not being Cooperative, my reaction is, what's the surprise?
I mean, this is a man who ran his own country for three decades. He was used to killing people for sport. Why would he want to Cooperate with the U.S.? And frankly, there's nothing we can offer. It's not like we can plea bargain with him and say, "You'll only get 20 years if you give us some information."
This is a man who should hang. We're not going to make it easy on him whatever he tells us. CALLEBS: What do you think the steps are going to be to determine if the trial will be in Iraq or if it's going to be in an international theater?
BANDOW: Well, obviously, it's ultimately America's decision because bluntly, we run the show. I would hope this administration thinks this in the context of returning authority to the Iraqis.
We're trying to come up with a serious political mechanism of constitution, a transition mechanism. This should be viewed as a very high profile mechanism to show the world that, in fact, we are returning this to the Iraqis and we do plan on leaving. That what we're talking about ultimately is the Iraqis will run their own country, not us. These decisions will be up to them.
CALLEBS: And Doug, for a lot of people, the sooner the better, both the trial and both -- getting that country stable and returning it back to the Iraqis.
BANDOW: Absolutely. I agree.
CALLEBS: Doug Bandow with the Cato Institute here in D.C. Thanks a lot for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
BANDOW: Sure thing.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 21, 2003 - 10:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SEAN CALLEBS, ANCHOR: In the week since Saddam Hussein was plucked by U.S. soldiers from a hole in the ground, the former Iraqi leader's mood has been occasionally feisty, other times subdued. That according to top American administrator Paul Bremer.
In an interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," Bremer said the capture of Saddam Hussein has provided useful intelligence to the United States, but the man himself has generally not been Cooperative with his captors.
Iraq and the United States and the coalition will face many legal decisions in trying the ousted Iraqi leader. Now, the proposal for a war crimes tribunal has been drafted, but many specifics simply remain undecided.
Now we focus on the fallout from Saddam's capture with Doug Bandow. He is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C.
Doug, thanks a lot for being with us here this morning. We certainly appreciate it.
DOUG BANDOW, CATO INSTITUTE: Happy to be with you all.
CALLEBS: OK. In the words of Paul Bremer, we got him. What next? History is going to look very closely at what happens.
Universally, it seems that a lot of people would like to see Saddam Hussein punished for his 30-plus years of running the country, but how is this going to play out?
BANDOW: Well, he certainly deserves to be punished. I think this is very good news to the Iraqi people.
I'd like to see him tried in Iraq. I think we should say this is primarily the responsibility of the Iraqi people. His crimes were clearly directed at the Iraqi people. And it's a way to show the Iraqis are getting sovereignty back.
I think it's a good way for the U.S. to say we are giving authority back to the Iraqis. You all are going to come up with the judgment, come up with a fair process and punish him. And I think that the U.S. will receive a lot of credit for that.
CALLEBS: And also a lot of focus on how they're getting information from -- how they are getting information. What they're going to do with it and any concern that perhaps, the Geneva Convention may be violated, the way that the coalition is going about getting this information.
BANDOW: I suppose one could make that argument. But you know, this is the former dictator who's been a real thug. I wouldn't worry an awful lot about the literal words of the Geneva Convention dealing with Saddam Hussein. This is a mass murderer.
He's being treated much better than he treated the Iraqi people. So this strikes me as being, kind of pedagogue at its worst.
CALLEBS: We shouldn't lose sight of that at all. Do you think this is the beginning of the end for the coalition troops that are in Iraq right now?
BANDOW: Well, we can certainly hope that it's the beginning of the end of the insurgency, but I think we have to be very careful here. It's clear that that insurgency is fairly broad based and it's more than just Ba'athists. It also includes al Qaeda types.
And I'm worried a bit about it may create impatience on the part of the Iraqi people. Their view may now be, "We don't have to choose between the U.S. and Saddam. We want authority, faster, quicker, give it to us."
So the U.S. has to be very careful here.
CALLEBS: And Doug, there are still thugs out there. I mean, some of his real henchmen are apparently out there running things. And so often it seems that the U.S. led troops are there basically just getting potshots at them day in and day out.
BANDOW: Absolutely, and part of the difficulty is that we have to recognize the tougher law in terms of enforcement, and the more danger it is, we're going to make enemies.
If we shoot people by accident. They string up barbed wire around communities. You raid people's homes. You're going to create some resentment in communities outside of the Ba'athists, and that, I think, is another problem we're dealing with right now.
CALLEBS: Any surprise to you that Saddam Hussein is being so argumentative at times? And do you think he's going to lead the U.S. to some of his real henchmen?
BANDOW: It's hard to image what incentive he has to Cooperate. I think when I watch American officials saying no, he's not being Cooperative, my reaction is, what's the surprise?
I mean, this is a man who ran his own country for three decades. He was used to killing people for sport. Why would he want to Cooperate with the U.S.? And frankly, there's nothing we can offer. It's not like we can plea bargain with him and say, "You'll only get 20 years if you give us some information."
This is a man who should hang. We're not going to make it easy on him whatever he tells us. CALLEBS: What do you think the steps are going to be to determine if the trial will be in Iraq or if it's going to be in an international theater?
BANDOW: Well, obviously, it's ultimately America's decision because bluntly, we run the show. I would hope this administration thinks this in the context of returning authority to the Iraqis.
We're trying to come up with a serious political mechanism of constitution, a transition mechanism. This should be viewed as a very high profile mechanism to show the world that, in fact, we are returning this to the Iraqis and we do plan on leaving. That what we're talking about ultimately is the Iraqis will run their own country, not us. These decisions will be up to them.
CALLEBS: And Doug, for a lot of people, the sooner the better, both the trial and both -- getting that country stable and returning it back to the Iraqis.
BANDOW: Absolutely. I agree.
CALLEBS: Doug Bandow with the Cato Institute here in D.C. Thanks a lot for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
BANDOW: Sure thing.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
