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American Morning
Interview With Johnny Cochran, Linda Fairstein
Aired December 25, 2003 - 09:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a look back at the in justice now; 2003 saw some big stories and also some important, closely-watched legal precedents.
We're giving the last word on the law in 2003 to Defense Attorney Johnny Cochran, writer and former prosecutor Linda Fairstein, and CNN's own legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Thanks for spending time with us.
JOHNNY COCHRAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good to be with you, Bill.
HEMMER: Some of these major cases still unfolding right now, still developing. You have Kobe Bryant charged with sexual assault, Michael Jackson accused of child molestation, Scott Peterson on trial for murder. How much of this is entertainment, do you believe?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I am not surprised by the interest in the Kobe Bryant case or Michael Jackson case. Whenever famous people are charged with crimes, that's a big story. It's always been a big story throughout the 20th century, starting with O.J.
There has been the sort of appetite for a big case, that it can be filled even with a case that involves no celebrities.
COCHRAN: I think he's absolutely right. Even the Scott Peterson case puts us in the mind. Everybody talks about the similarities with O.J., and then, of course, you throw in a little bit of sex, a mistress, you know, there's intrigue. It's the holidays. There's this guy who dyes his hair and he's paying for things in cash and all these things, and so people get really fascinated by it.
LINDA FAIRSTEIN, WRITER & FORMER PROSECUTOR: I have talked about this. This is a fertilizer salesman. It's not a celebrity. I would think that, if there are bigger issues to be learned here -- and for example, if it is Scott Peterson who's the killer, the whole domestic violence -- to learn about domestic violence, to learn that, in fact, sadly, pregnancy is one of the two most at risk times for a woman in a dangerous relationship.
HEMMER: Another case here, Galveston, Texas, Robert Durst, what a case this was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst, not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Acquitted for murder of his own neighbor. What do you make of that on the last
(CROSSTALK)...
COCHRAN: Well, I think...
TOOBIN: Johnny is shocked to see someone guilty of murder acquitted.
COCHRAN: No, I was actually shocked by it, but I would say this, that -- you know, we have a saying in the law: innocent until proven broke. And the color of justice is green. And this man had legal counsel, and it's unbelievable.
HEMMER: Another case here about the intrigue of Elizabeth Smart. Linda, this is a little girl who disappears from her home. And this past March, boy, she's found alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART, FATHER OF ELIZABETH SMART: Elizabeth is happy. She's well, and we are so happy to have her back in our arms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: What's the last word, do you believe, on that case?
FAIRSTEIN: Well, the Amber Alert is one of the best things to come out of this case. I mean it's working in California; it's working in a lot of the states that have it up and running, and it's really a way to solve these tragedies, ideally, early on.
HEMMER: How fair is it to stop and say, you know what, point the finger at the police for doing something incorrectly or not?
COCHRAN: I think you've got to do that. I think the police are not sacrosanct, but you've got to look at everything, and we're seeing more and more of that in every case. People are questioning the conduct of the police, which I think is appropriate under the circumstances.
HEMMER: Obviously, one of the bigger cases we watched this past year are the sniper trials down in the D.C. area. What do you think the last word is on those cases?
COCHRAN: Why? Why did this happen? And I think that's a real lingering question.
TOOBIN: Those trials reminded me of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, in that in that the crimes were so awful and so repellent, that people didn't even want to look too much, that they were not the subject of the great public fascination because the crimes were just so awful.
HEMMER: Let's talk, Jeff, now, some precedent-setting cases, Terri Schiavo in Florida, Judge Roy Moore in Alabama with the 10 commandments. What's the last word on those?
TOOBIN: Here you have this very personal, sad story of this woman in a vegetative state, usually dealt with with the family. Here you have the entire Florida legislature passing a law and the governor signing it because it became a big political issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So who's going to look out for this girl's rights? We have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOOBIN: Same thing in Alabama. You have Judge Roy Moore. You know, what it's become about there is not whether the 10 commandments stay or go; it's his political career. He lost that case, but he looks like he's running for governor. So the complete mixture of law and politics is what I think those cases are really about.
HEMMER: Another case that got a lot of attention, Affirmative Action as it relates to the University of Michigan. It survives, and it does after being visited by the highest court in the land. What do you think the last word is on that?
TOOBIN: I think that is the biggest court ruling legal matter of the year. By one vote, five-to-four, Supreme Court says Affirmative Action survives in education, in employment, in the military. It would have had a huge impact on American society if it had gone the other way.
HEMMER: It's a big statement, though. Biggest decision of the year, Linda, do you agree?
FAIRSTEIN: I agree with Jeff.
HEMMER: Wow. Johnny?
COCHRAN: I agree.
HEMMER: Johnny, thanks. We'll leave it at there. Linda, Jeff -- that does it, the last word on justice for 2003.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 25, 2003 - 09:22 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a look back at the in justice now; 2003 saw some big stories and also some important, closely-watched legal precedents.
We're giving the last word on the law in 2003 to Defense Attorney Johnny Cochran, writer and former prosecutor Linda Fairstein, and CNN's own legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Thanks for spending time with us.
JOHNNY COCHRAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good to be with you, Bill.
HEMMER: Some of these major cases still unfolding right now, still developing. You have Kobe Bryant charged with sexual assault, Michael Jackson accused of child molestation, Scott Peterson on trial for murder. How much of this is entertainment, do you believe?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I am not surprised by the interest in the Kobe Bryant case or Michael Jackson case. Whenever famous people are charged with crimes, that's a big story. It's always been a big story throughout the 20th century, starting with O.J.
There has been the sort of appetite for a big case, that it can be filled even with a case that involves no celebrities.
COCHRAN: I think he's absolutely right. Even the Scott Peterson case puts us in the mind. Everybody talks about the similarities with O.J., and then, of course, you throw in a little bit of sex, a mistress, you know, there's intrigue. It's the holidays. There's this guy who dyes his hair and he's paying for things in cash and all these things, and so people get really fascinated by it.
LINDA FAIRSTEIN, WRITER & FORMER PROSECUTOR: I have talked about this. This is a fertilizer salesman. It's not a celebrity. I would think that, if there are bigger issues to be learned here -- and for example, if it is Scott Peterson who's the killer, the whole domestic violence -- to learn about domestic violence, to learn that, in fact, sadly, pregnancy is one of the two most at risk times for a woman in a dangerous relationship.
HEMMER: Another case here, Galveston, Texas, Robert Durst, what a case this was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant, Robert Durst, not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Acquitted for murder of his own neighbor. What do you make of that on the last
(CROSSTALK)...
COCHRAN: Well, I think...
TOOBIN: Johnny is shocked to see someone guilty of murder acquitted.
COCHRAN: No, I was actually shocked by it, but I would say this, that -- you know, we have a saying in the law: innocent until proven broke. And the color of justice is green. And this man had legal counsel, and it's unbelievable.
HEMMER: Another case here about the intrigue of Elizabeth Smart. Linda, this is a little girl who disappears from her home. And this past March, boy, she's found alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART, FATHER OF ELIZABETH SMART: Elizabeth is happy. She's well, and we are so happy to have her back in our arms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: What's the last word, do you believe, on that case?
FAIRSTEIN: Well, the Amber Alert is one of the best things to come out of this case. I mean it's working in California; it's working in a lot of the states that have it up and running, and it's really a way to solve these tragedies, ideally, early on.
HEMMER: How fair is it to stop and say, you know what, point the finger at the police for doing something incorrectly or not?
COCHRAN: I think you've got to do that. I think the police are not sacrosanct, but you've got to look at everything, and we're seeing more and more of that in every case. People are questioning the conduct of the police, which I think is appropriate under the circumstances.
HEMMER: Obviously, one of the bigger cases we watched this past year are the sniper trials down in the D.C. area. What do you think the last word is on those cases?
COCHRAN: Why? Why did this happen? And I think that's a real lingering question.
TOOBIN: Those trials reminded me of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, in that in that the crimes were so awful and so repellent, that people didn't even want to look too much, that they were not the subject of the great public fascination because the crimes were just so awful.
HEMMER: Let's talk, Jeff, now, some precedent-setting cases, Terri Schiavo in Florida, Judge Roy Moore in Alabama with the 10 commandments. What's the last word on those?
TOOBIN: Here you have this very personal, sad story of this woman in a vegetative state, usually dealt with with the family. Here you have the entire Florida legislature passing a law and the governor signing it because it became a big political issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So who's going to look out for this girl's rights? We have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOOBIN: Same thing in Alabama. You have Judge Roy Moore. You know, what it's become about there is not whether the 10 commandments stay or go; it's his political career. He lost that case, but he looks like he's running for governor. So the complete mixture of law and politics is what I think those cases are really about.
HEMMER: Another case that got a lot of attention, Affirmative Action as it relates to the University of Michigan. It survives, and it does after being visited by the highest court in the land. What do you think the last word is on that?
TOOBIN: I think that is the biggest court ruling legal matter of the year. By one vote, five-to-four, Supreme Court says Affirmative Action survives in education, in employment, in the military. It would have had a huge impact on American society if it had gone the other way.
HEMMER: It's a big statement, though. Biggest decision of the year, Linda, do you agree?
FAIRSTEIN: I agree with Jeff.
HEMMER: Wow. Johnny?
COCHRAN: I agree.
HEMMER: Johnny, thanks. We'll leave it at there. Linda, Jeff -- that does it, the last word on justice for 2003.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
