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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE
Current Events at the United Nations
Aired December 26, 2003 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: International intrigue. A search for the money. An ambassador on the spot. And we're not even at the United Nations. We're in lower Manhattan, at Federal Court, and DIPLOMATIC LICENSE is next.
By nature and trade, United Nations' ambassadors are not exactly dynamic public figures, but circumstances sometimes intervene.
Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth.
Muhamed Sacirbey was one of those ambassadors who proved to be a goldmine for the media, and more importantly, his countrymen back home in Bosnia. As one senior U.N. official told me this week, he was a very effective spokesman for his country, saying things and using unconventional techniques which didn't always help him with other diplomats and ministers.
Now the ex-Bosnian envoy to the United Nations is fighting to stay in the United States, clear his name and maybe just stay alive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): Muhamed Sacirbey was a New York investment banker thrust into the world of diplomacy by a war raging in his native Bosnia.
MUHAMED SACIRBEY, FMR. BOSNIAN AMB. TO U.N.: The term aggression is too neutral a word for the crime being perpetrated against my country.
ROTH: Ethnic violence in Sarajevo left little time for establishing a presence at the United Nations while independence was fought for. With relentless passion and style and numerous appearances on behalf of his country, Sacirbey became famous.
SACIRBEY: If Bosnia-Herzegovina wanted to commit suicide, we do not need the assistance of the Dr. Jack Kevorkian of mediation and diplomacy.
ROTH: But a decade later, the war is over, Bosnia is a member of the U.N. and Sacirbey is a prisoner in a downtown New York jail for the last nine months.
SACIRBEY: Since I have to share my cell with another individual, we had to drink out of the same toilet bowl that we both, as one would put it, pissed in and otherwise.
ROTH: This week, Sacirbey appeared in a federal courtroom seeking to block extradition to Bosnia. He is wanted there for investigation of stealing nearly $2.5 million while serving as at the Bosnia United Nations mission he opened.
SUSAN SACIRBEY, WIFE: There is no evidence of self-enrichment. I can tell you I'd like to see where all this money is that they say has been embezzled.
ROTH: And famous friends are stunned.
BONO, ROCK STAR: He's a very nice man and he was very good to me and I've heard these reports. I find them very hard to believe. He just seemed a person who really cared about his country.
ROTH: Sacirbey was once Bosnia's foreign minister, attending the Dayton Peace Conference, even sitting next to the man who for years he demanded should be tried for war crimes, Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic.
Now both sit behind bars, an ocean apart.
M. CHERIF BASSIOUNI, SACIRBEY'S DEF. ATTY.: This is more than an irony. This has to be a purposeful political vendetta.
ROTH: In court, Sacirbey testified he suspects political enemies in Bosnia and the United States want him silenced for what he knows about massacres and side deals made at Dayton. An agitated U.S. government attorney sought to avoid the politics, charging there is evidence of missing funds. Sacirbey, on the stand and in a DIPLOMATIC LICENSE telephone interview from prison, said he was told by then Bosnia President Izetbegovic (ph) to make due, to spend as he saw fit in a chaotic environment.
SACIRBEY: We never received adequate funding from Sarajevo. Even when we were promised money, frequently it didn't come in on time. There was a period at the end where actually we didn't receive any money for seven months.
On the other hand, in the beginning, the whole mission was really funded n the basis of my own personal funds.
ROTH: Sacirbey's arrest was requested under the complicated three- party system running the country post-war and Sacirbey's case is now in the hands of the Justice Ministry, though it began with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs several elections ago.
MLADEN IVAMIC, BOSNIAN FOREIGN MIN.: It's out of any kind of influence of the politicians. Anymore now, it's really now a legal affair.
PRES. DRAGAN COVIC, BOSNIA (CROAT) (through translator): I think that the best thing the judiciary should deal together with higher diplomacy.
PRIME MIN. ADNAN TERZIC, BOSNIA (BOSNIAN) (through translator): I can only say my own personal opinion, not as the prime minister. However I can say and share my personal opinion. I am convinced that Ambassador Sacirbey did not take any money.
ROTH: If he is sent to Bosnia, Sacirbey could face three years in jail and fears for his life since the prisons are filled with war criminals.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Sacirbey is spending the holiday season behind bars. The judge refused another request to free him on bail. Judge Frank Moss (ph) will decide shortly after the new year whether there are grounds for extradition.
Post-9-11, U.S. prison authorities do not permit television cameras into jails for interviews, thus we talked by phone. We requested a photo be taken of the man known as Mo to his friends at the same time as the interview conducted with us.
This is not a mug shot, but reflects that he has been in jail for nine months, and at the start of the incarceration was jumbled in in isolation with terror suspects and accused murderers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SACIRBEY: The conditions are what you might expect. Not very pleasant. Certainly very difficult to communicate with people and not something that one would consider your normal surroundings when it comes to everyday life.
At the same time, you become accustomed to it. I've been through war and in that war I became accustomed to a lot of things that one might normally expect in their life not being there. What I think is worse about this is the psychological implications of being behind bars and being obviously accused of certain things that I certainly don't believe that I'm responsible for.
ROTH: According to the U.S. attorney filing, you are accused of withdrawing $610,000 from the mission, the consulate there, the Bosnian mission in New York, plus taking or somehow diluting an account, an investment account, Investment Fund Ministry (ph) of $1,800,000. What's your side of that story?
SACIRBEY: I was actually investigated in Bosnia for something called abuse of authority. Now setting aside the validity or propriety of that whole investigation, what I think was really improper here on the part of the U.S. government is that they admitted a new offense, called abuse of authority for embezzlement.
The Bosnians did not feel that I was in any way culpable to be investigated for embezzlement. What I found very strange is that this government, that is the U.S. State Department, on behalf of the Bosnians, chose to try to not only embellish the charge, but in fact to characterize it into something very unsavory.
ROTH: So you believe the charges are all politically motivated by who?
SACIRBEY: Well, I think in the beginning the charges certainly were motivated in Bosnia. Abuse of political office is something that has been frequently charged against past diplomatic and/or political officials. Even the current president of the presidency of Bosnia is under investigation for abuse of political office.
It could be anything from not doing one's job as one should, that is neglect, to potentially maybe abusing one's position to favor some party in some sort of privatization arrangement.
So clearly in the chaos that followed the war and of course during the war itself, there were a lot of opportunities for people to be investigated for such a thing. Bosnia has certainly had its share of continued, if you would, upheaval. I, as someone who was central to the investigations of the war crimes tribunal, who was Bosnia's agent before the International Court of Justice, who handed over evidence to these institutions that may implicate many others in Bosnia, would certainly be a potential target, and I believe obviously would be a real target in Bosnia at this time.
ROTH: I'm sure you've had time to reflect on this, but you're in jail. At the same time, a man you forcefully campaigned to be behind bars, Slobodan Milosevic, is also in prison, in the Hague, in his own trial.
SACIRBEY: Yes, and maybe the most unfortunate comparison there is that his conditions, I think, are much better, and the opportunity for his defense is much broader, and he has certainly every chance to present not only his defense, but to present all of his arguments before a court, that I think is much more just or if you would democratic in its essence than the proceedings which I seem to be facing right now.
ROTH: The experience of being taken away from your wife, your cats, they handcuffed you.
SACIRBEY: The first thing is that you believe that you'll be back on the streets and walking, since there really is no basis for the charges. I think worst of all you feel like you have very little control over your future. And to the extent that you start raising your expectations about going outside, about being released, about the judge ruling in your favor, that all in the end plays against you because the worst enemy that you have within these walls is your own expectations, of your own freedom, of your own rights.
What you do is you struggle for those rights, you struggle for that freedom, but you never take it for granted, and it's taught me a very valuable lesson that certainly I will take with me beyond these four walls.
ROTH: Summing up, what is it you want to happen now to you? What do you want?
SACIRBEY: Well, clearly, I just want to be out of this institution, and that's the immediate goal. On the other hand, I think it's also maybe as important or more important that these allegations against me be cleared up, and I've already initiated that process in Bosnia.
I'm very, very disturbed by what I've seen here and in terms of how the rights of a U.S. citizen can be so easily swept up and put aside at the discretion of our government. I'm not charged as a terrorist. I'm not charged as a foreign combatant. In effect, all that is said is that I am wanted by a foreign country, where this country has chosen at its own option, to send me there, without any obligation to do so.
And because of that choice, I'm not entitled to bail, I'm not entitled to the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments of the U.S. Constitution. I'm not entitled to discovery. I'm not entitled to the normal evidentiary procedures.
I would have never thought that it was possible in this country.
ROTH: If you got out, what's the first thing you would want to do?
SACIRBEY: I think I'd probably want to have a beer and have a hamburger and sit down and watch a football game in peace. We have some TV's here, and that's probably my greatest fun, in terms of pastime, watching television, besides, you know, maybe playing some chess.
On the other hand, I think after my experience, within 24 hours I'd be back trying to make sure this doesn't happen to someone else.
ROTH: Ambassador Sacirbey, thank you very much, and good luck in there.
SACIRBEY: Thank you very much, Richard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: His wife Susan had to go through hoops just to get the ambassador a suit to wear in court last Tuesday. Even if the judge rules in favor of extradition, the final decision will be up to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell.
Sacirbey had some support in the courtroom. Jordan's ambassador to the United Nations was there.
Watching Sacirbey on the stand was quite different than seeing the ambassador in the hallways of the United Nations. Unlike many of the diplomats there, Sacirbey could handle any question and was willing to answer it on camera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Are you actually coming back here to the United Nations? Is that what I read? Why do you want to come back?
SACIRBEY: No one wants to come back to the United Nations. No. I have many other tasks I have to fulfill before I consider what my future is all about. Thank you.
ROTH: See you later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROTH: It's the United Nations Staff Singers. Some comforting music and song in the lobby of the United Nations, badly needed in the U.N. system after a stunningly awful year for the people who work with or for the United Nations.
Earlier we updated you on the fate of former Bosnian Ambassador to the U.N. Muhamed Sacirbey. While he sits in a cell awaiting action, back at the United Nations a recent exhibit recalled the violence that the ambassador fought to stop in the early 1990's. In the exhibit, called Aftershocks, a generation that lived under the siege of Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital, tells of a perilous way of growing up.
NERMINA NUHODZIV, BOSNIAN STUDENT: I was seven years old when the war had started and I know that my whole family broke up in pieces. They were everywhere in the world and we lost contact, and it wasn't always easy. It was never easy, actually.
Everything that happened, every day, every minute in this country, every piece of everyday life was really painful for everybody.
ELANA HAVIV, CITIZEN'S MOVEMENT: When the journalists left, they were left behind. They were forgotten, and they wanted the chance to tell people about their past, about their present and about the future, so together we formed a project called Portrait of a Siege Generation, where they have the chance to do all of those things through art and memoirs, and it furthered their healing process.
ISMAT KLISTA, BOSNIAN STUDENT: I was five years old when the war started, so it was very difficult living at that time in Sarajevo, because Sarajevo was occupied for more than 1001 days. So for a few weeks, we had no electricity or water or food. That was really difficult.
So this project is the best way that we can show the world what our feelings are about that and how we survived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see this group of 20 - 35 teenagers as really trying to make sense of the world, make sense of themselves, and to build something, and they want so desperately to create a better future.
UNA DOBRINIC, BOSNIAN STUDENT: We think the problem in our world, in our cosmos, is that we think we are the center of this cosmos. I think that's false. We must be in harmony with the environment.
NUHODZIV: I'm very proud to be exhibiting in the United Nations. It's a great happening for me. And the main thing that actually inspired me was the love for my city, which is very, very strong.
I wanted to show everyday scenes from a person's life that lives in Bosnia. So I actually showed there a piece of me and a piece of my everyday life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Aftershocks has since traveled to London and may soon be in other capitals.
While Aftershocks moved out of New York, a different kind of show across town and outdoors in Manhattan, the lighting of the annual UNICEF snowflake. It's 27 feet high and it doesn't try to climb the Empire State Building. The goal is to raise some $3 million by 2005 for UNICEF programs.
This snowflake didn't get the brush-off from UNICEF and its entertainment world boosters. The Mayor of New York City Michael Bloomberg and snow bunny, at least in my department, actress Liv Tyler, hosted a glittery lineup as temperatures plunged.
Here is a last taste of that Christmas season of hope before we return you to the usual portion of world misery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAVIER SOLANA, EU FOREIGN AFFAIRS MIN.: After the new decision we have taken as far as defense is concerned and as far as crisis management is concerned. We've talked with Africa also about contribution to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the Democratic Republic of Congo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? It's my cell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you mind? I'll take it, yes. Yes. (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
OK. Is that OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: European Union Foreign Affairs Secretary and troubleshooter Javier Solana.
Can you imagine if that was an urgent call?
Speaking of trouble and shooting, and cell phones and holiday cheer, I received the best gift a host can get, a former perennial guest is back again and in case you've had too much eggnog, Afsane Bassir Pour, of the French newspaper "Le Monde," is with us. She was with us for most of the first 10 years of the show. And to show that nothing has changed, Afsane, you have 3-1/2 minutes.
First issue, a little serious. In Iran, earthquake, at least 15,000 and probably higher, dead. Are there any political angles to this story?
AFSANE BASSIR POUR, "LE MONDE": Well, you know, first of all, the tragedy. This city is at least the 5th time it has been hit by an earthquake. It's a 2,000-year-old city, and yes, I do see a political angel, because I think if, you know, the Americans right now were to help, like everybody else is, but to help on a humanitarian scale, the Iranian earthquake victims, it could be the beginning of something.
I certainly see, you know, the beginning of a relationship here in this tragedy.
ROTH: Well, President Bush is offering his help. At least 20,000 dead. I'm sure they're finding more bodies as this show is airing around the world the weekend, and there have been a lot of earthquakes before there, with the United States helping. This is where the United Nations really flexes its muscles, though, the different agencies.
BASSIR POUR: Yes, I mean, you know, the United Nations humanitarian agencies will be there, but as you asked for the political angle, I think if the Americans -- if the Iranians accept to have American aid, it will be very interesting to see how all of this would work out.
ROTH: Of course, a lot of people, critics of the United Nations, say this is what the United Nations does best. They should stay out of issues like Iraq, or at least that's what the critics in the United States say.
Kofi Anna, the secretary-general, wants, as we mentioned on last week's program, wants to find out what the U.N. role is. What is the latest on a planned meeting at the United Nations in January?
BASSIR POUR: Well, the latest I heard is that there will be a meeting on January 19 with Mr. Pachachi from the Iraqi Governing Council, will be in New York. Paul Bremer has said that he is interested in the meeting. The secretary-general spoke with President Bush on December 19. He also spoke with Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice and all of what he heard from them was positive.
But here at the U.S. mission apparently they're saying they're not sure whether this meeting should take place and whether, if there is a meeting, the Iraqis, the Americans and the United Nations should be in the same meeting.
So we don't know whether the three of them will meet together, but the idea, as you said, is for the United Nations, for the secretary-general, to find out what it is exactly that they want the United Nations to do, because they keep saying the United Nations should have a role, but you have no idea what role that might be.
ROTH: Kofi Annan, the secretary-general, at another meeting in January, on AIDS. Very briefly, what's that about?
BASSIR POUR: On January 15 the secretary-general has invited all the media executives, you know, the moguls, from Al-Jazeera to PBS to BBC to the American networks. What he wants to do is talk about AIDS, because he thinks that AIDS should become more of a popular issue so that public opinion will force governments to fund, you know, give more money for AIDS and to raise awareness. This should be a very interesting meeting for AIDS.
ROTH: It's definitely his No. 1 priority. Also Sudan, the biggest African country on the continent. They've been trying to establish a peace there after an incredibly bloody civil war since 1993. Very briefly.
BASSIR POUR: Things are looking pretty good there, because they have been in nine months discussions between John Garang, the rebel leader of the south, and the President Bashir in Kartun, and they've talked about sharing wealth, which they were fighting over oil.
Now the secretary-general has said that we might have a surprise on the Sudan. Now, does this mean John Garang and Bashir might meet around mid-January, again, here at the United Nations? I don't know what the surprise is, but we have more time for that one.
ROTH: A possible Sudan surprise.
Thank you for flying 3,000 miles for 4 minutes.
BASSIR POUR: For 3 minutes, yes.
ROTH: Thank you very much.
ROTH: Inflation.
Afsane patrols Geneva for "Le Monde," but I'm sure she'd love to hear from you, but I'll get first crack at censoring what you write. So send your e-mails about Ambassador Sacirbey or some of the comments made by our visiting correspondent. Bunch some snow together and send it to DIPLOMATIC.LICENSE@CNN.COM. Get them in before New Years and you'll be taxed at a lower rate.
That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE for the final program of 2003. Next week, predictions as only we have the nerve to say. The latest CNN news is next.
END
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