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American Morning
Convicted Teen Murderer Gets Second Chance
Aired December 29, 2003 - 08:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, ANCHOR: In the next couple of weeks Lionel Tate, age 16 now, is expected to decide if he will accept a plea bargain that could lead to his almost immediate release from prison, possibly in January.
Tate is the Florida teenager sentenced to life behind bars in January 2001 for the murder of a 6-year-old playmate. Tate is now 16, as I mentioned.
His conviction for the death of Tiffany Eunick was thrown out this month by an appeals court. That court said Tate's competency should have been tested before his trial.
With us this morning, Tate's attorney, Richard Rosenbaum, is here in New York. Also attorney for Tiffany's mother, Ken Padowitz, our guest, as well.
Gentlemen, good morning to both of you.
RICHARD ROSENBAUM, ATTORNEY FOR LIONEL TATE: Good morning.
KEN PADOWITZ, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM'S FAMILY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, will your client accept the latest plea deal?
ROSENBAUM: Well, Lionel has made his decision, but I'm not yet at liberty to tell everyone what it is. But he's listened to his mom. He's listened to the advice of doctors, of lawyers. We'll make sure that he does not make a mistake this time.
HEMMER: Why would he not take the deal?
ROSENBAUM: Well, it would entail him being a convicted felon for the rest of his life. There are some of us that don't believe that 12-year-old children should be tried or convicted as adults.
At the same time, he would end up doing three years juvenile, which is almost done, followed by a year of house arrest, followed by ten years probation, 1,000 hours of community service and psychological counseling.
So it's a weighty decision. We want to make sure that he makes the right one, and I'm sure that he will.
HEMMER: And in your first answer, though, you said you want to make sure that he doesn't make the same mistake again. Is that an inference that he's going to take this plea?
ROSENBAUM: You read between the lines very well.
HEMMER: Yes. Are you willing to go on record with that?
ROSENBAUM: No, I'm not. Until there's a final answer and until I get doctors up there just to make sure that he's competent and he's thinking properly and making good decisions, I want to make sure that this decision sticks and there's not someone looking over my shoulder some day.
HEMMER: Mr. Padowitz you have said repeatedly on our network that the original deal was too lenient. Do you still believe that?
PADOWITZ: Yes, absolutely. Tiffany's mom, Deweese, believes that the original plea deal was too lenient. But she gave her blessing to it, because it provided some resolution and also some justice for the death of her daughter.
It was turned down repeatedly, and the mistake Lionel made was not that he turned down this plea bargain originally but that he murdered this little girl, brutally murdered her.
And in fact, twelve people on a jury found that so, as well as their own expert who testified at trial, the defense expert that this was a homicide, not an accident.
So here we are once again, Lionel Tate has an opportunity for the first time to take responsibility for this brutal murder. And although it's a very lenient plea deal, too lenient, it will provide some resolution and an ending to this horrible tragedy. And that Tiffany's mom would like to see this resolved, justice for her daughter.
HEMMER: We have this huge gulf between three years on a plea and life in prison. What's the proper punishment, do you believe, and the victim's mother? What does she say on that, also?
PADOWITZ: Well, we definitely believe that this was a homicide. Even the appellate court when it reversed this case, they said in the first page of their nine-page opinion that this was a brutal slaying.
So, there's no mistake here that 35 injuries, and punching and kicking, a brutal beating over the course of five minutes, deserves a conviction for murder.
And Lionel Tate is being offered basically a plea of guilty, not a no contest plea, but a plea of guilty to second degree murder. Well, he will be a convicted felon for the rest of his life.
He will have the opportunity for once to stand up and take responsibility for this horrible murder, and Tiffany's mom would like this case to be resolved. That is why, even though the plea is too lenient, it puts a resolution, an ending to the legal drama here.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, if I could interject here, there is a report that says you may ask the court for a guilty plea, but guilty in, for lack of a better phrase, in one's best interest.
ROSENBAUM: Correct.
HEMMER: Is that something you're going to push for? And if so is that allowed under Florida law?
ROSENBAUM: Well, the proposed plea agreement that's on the table right now calls for a guilty in his best interest plea. That would be he'd come in, he'd have to admit his guilt, but he could still claim his innocence, and proclaim that for the rest of his life.
So Florida law does allow that. But he would be adjudicated guilty. He would be found guilty.
HEMMER: So is that like pleading no contest, then? Does that definition fly under the same terms that you're trying to push for?
ROSENBAUM: Well, there's a fine line distinction. No contest neither admits nor denies. This is an admission, but it's an admission only because it's in his best interest to get rid of the case this way.
So he can still say that he's innocent, and we can still bring up all the evidence that we've uncovered that this was an accident.
HEMMER: Now, are you led to believe that the court's going to take this offer?
ROSENBAUM: I would believe that the court would take the offer. I think the court was ready to take the offer way back when, and really nothing's changed to the worse up to now, in fact.
Lionel's done much better. He's matured in jail, although he has a fairly low I.Q. He's on the honor roll. He got three A's and three B's last semester in the jail. So he's progressing real well.
HEMMER: Final question, and I don't have much time for it, Mr. Rosenbaum, why was a competency test not given to this young man before a verdict was initially rendered?
ROSENBAUM: Well, I wasn't the trial lawyer. I'm the appellate lawyer that comes in to clean up the mess. And looking back on it, I don't know why there wasn't a competency evaluation.
After I was with this child for five minutes, sitting in the jail, I knew he didn't have a clue what was going on. And I started raising that.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, Ken Padowitz, thank you, gentlemen...
PADOWITZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: ... for talking with us today.
ROSENBAUM: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 29, 2003 - 08:13 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, ANCHOR: In the next couple of weeks Lionel Tate, age 16 now, is expected to decide if he will accept a plea bargain that could lead to his almost immediate release from prison, possibly in January.
Tate is the Florida teenager sentenced to life behind bars in January 2001 for the murder of a 6-year-old playmate. Tate is now 16, as I mentioned.
His conviction for the death of Tiffany Eunick was thrown out this month by an appeals court. That court said Tate's competency should have been tested before his trial.
With us this morning, Tate's attorney, Richard Rosenbaum, is here in New York. Also attorney for Tiffany's mother, Ken Padowitz, our guest, as well.
Gentlemen, good morning to both of you.
RICHARD ROSENBAUM, ATTORNEY FOR LIONEL TATE: Good morning.
KEN PADOWITZ, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM'S FAMILY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, will your client accept the latest plea deal?
ROSENBAUM: Well, Lionel has made his decision, but I'm not yet at liberty to tell everyone what it is. But he's listened to his mom. He's listened to the advice of doctors, of lawyers. We'll make sure that he does not make a mistake this time.
HEMMER: Why would he not take the deal?
ROSENBAUM: Well, it would entail him being a convicted felon for the rest of his life. There are some of us that don't believe that 12-year-old children should be tried or convicted as adults.
At the same time, he would end up doing three years juvenile, which is almost done, followed by a year of house arrest, followed by ten years probation, 1,000 hours of community service and psychological counseling.
So it's a weighty decision. We want to make sure that he makes the right one, and I'm sure that he will.
HEMMER: And in your first answer, though, you said you want to make sure that he doesn't make the same mistake again. Is that an inference that he's going to take this plea?
ROSENBAUM: You read between the lines very well.
HEMMER: Yes. Are you willing to go on record with that?
ROSENBAUM: No, I'm not. Until there's a final answer and until I get doctors up there just to make sure that he's competent and he's thinking properly and making good decisions, I want to make sure that this decision sticks and there's not someone looking over my shoulder some day.
HEMMER: Mr. Padowitz you have said repeatedly on our network that the original deal was too lenient. Do you still believe that?
PADOWITZ: Yes, absolutely. Tiffany's mom, Deweese, believes that the original plea deal was too lenient. But she gave her blessing to it, because it provided some resolution and also some justice for the death of her daughter.
It was turned down repeatedly, and the mistake Lionel made was not that he turned down this plea bargain originally but that he murdered this little girl, brutally murdered her.
And in fact, twelve people on a jury found that so, as well as their own expert who testified at trial, the defense expert that this was a homicide, not an accident.
So here we are once again, Lionel Tate has an opportunity for the first time to take responsibility for this brutal murder. And although it's a very lenient plea deal, too lenient, it will provide some resolution and an ending to this horrible tragedy. And that Tiffany's mom would like to see this resolved, justice for her daughter.
HEMMER: We have this huge gulf between three years on a plea and life in prison. What's the proper punishment, do you believe, and the victim's mother? What does she say on that, also?
PADOWITZ: Well, we definitely believe that this was a homicide. Even the appellate court when it reversed this case, they said in the first page of their nine-page opinion that this was a brutal slaying.
So, there's no mistake here that 35 injuries, and punching and kicking, a brutal beating over the course of five minutes, deserves a conviction for murder.
And Lionel Tate is being offered basically a plea of guilty, not a no contest plea, but a plea of guilty to second degree murder. Well, he will be a convicted felon for the rest of his life.
He will have the opportunity for once to stand up and take responsibility for this horrible murder, and Tiffany's mom would like this case to be resolved. That is why, even though the plea is too lenient, it puts a resolution, an ending to the legal drama here.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, if I could interject here, there is a report that says you may ask the court for a guilty plea, but guilty in, for lack of a better phrase, in one's best interest.
ROSENBAUM: Correct.
HEMMER: Is that something you're going to push for? And if so is that allowed under Florida law?
ROSENBAUM: Well, the proposed plea agreement that's on the table right now calls for a guilty in his best interest plea. That would be he'd come in, he'd have to admit his guilt, but he could still claim his innocence, and proclaim that for the rest of his life.
So Florida law does allow that. But he would be adjudicated guilty. He would be found guilty.
HEMMER: So is that like pleading no contest, then? Does that definition fly under the same terms that you're trying to push for?
ROSENBAUM: Well, there's a fine line distinction. No contest neither admits nor denies. This is an admission, but it's an admission only because it's in his best interest to get rid of the case this way.
So he can still say that he's innocent, and we can still bring up all the evidence that we've uncovered that this was an accident.
HEMMER: Now, are you led to believe that the court's going to take this offer?
ROSENBAUM: I would believe that the court would take the offer. I think the court was ready to take the offer way back when, and really nothing's changed to the worse up to now, in fact.
Lionel's done much better. He's matured in jail, although he has a fairly low I.Q. He's on the honor roll. He got three A's and three B's last semester in the jail. So he's progressing real well.
HEMMER: Final question, and I don't have much time for it, Mr. Rosenbaum, why was a competency test not given to this young man before a verdict was initially rendered?
ROSENBAUM: Well, I wasn't the trial lawyer. I'm the appellate lawyer that comes in to clean up the mess. And looking back on it, I don't know why there wasn't a competency evaluation.
After I was with this child for five minutes, sitting in the jail, I knew he didn't have a clue what was going on. And I started raising that.
HEMMER: Mr. Rosenbaum, Ken Padowitz, thank you, gentlemen...
PADOWITZ: Thank you.
HEMMER: ... for talking with us today.
ROSENBAUM: Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
