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American Morning
Domestic Terrorism
Aired December 30, 2003 - 09:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Last month, a 62-year-old man from east Texas pleaded guilty to possession of a chemical weapon. Investigators found a sodium cyanide bomb, capable of killing thousands of people in a storage locker belonging to William Krar. There are also more than 100 explosives, half a million rounds of ammunition, and a mound of white supremacist and anti-government literature. But outside of Tyler, Texas, the case is practically unknown.
Joining us this morning to discuss the case, and also the potential threat of home-grown terror in this country, is assistant U.S. attorney prosecuting the case, Brit Fatherston.
Thanks for joining us this morning. You're joining us live from Houston, I should mention.
This case is so bizarre and shocking. Why do you think it's flown under the radar for the bulk of the media?
BRIT FATHERSTON, ASST. U.S. ATTY., EASTERN DIST. OF TEXAS: You know, Soledad, I'm not really sure why. When this case really hit the media back in April of this year, the -- I believe the war in Iraq was just getting going. I guess the other things that were going on in the world sort of overshadowed the case. However, the -- we did not actually broadcast it or really make a lot about the case because the investigation was still ongoing at the time.
O'BRIEN: William Krar, 62 years old, as we mentioned. Give me a sense of how he came to your attention and how this storage locker -- we're seeing pictures of the outside and the inside -- how you discovered what was inside that locker.
FATHERSTON: Well, the case began coincidentally with the mistaken or wrong-delivered mail. Mail was mistakenly delivered to a residence in Staten Island, New York. It was -- the occupants of the residence opened up the envelope and found fraudulent documents of the United Nations, identification tags. They also found fraudulent birth certificates and other Department of Defense identification cards.
O'BRIEN: Forgive me for interrupting here, he has pled guilty. What do you know about what he was planning to do with all that documentation and also all this ammo that was found, and this sodium cyanide bomb as well?
FATHERSTON: Well, the documents were being sent to New Jersey to a who was known to have affiliations to New Jersey militia. The subsequent investigation revealed that William Krar had ties to militias, white supremacy groups, as well as the fringe groups on the right wing side. So we do not, at this point in time, despite an exhaustive investigation by the FBI and the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and Department of Defense investigative services, at this moment, we are still unable to determine specifically where the sodium cyanide lethal device was destined for, or really the other explosive devices as well.
O'BRIEN: Is it yours sense that because the government is so focused in now on the international terror threat from al Qaeda and other groups like that, that the focus has been pulled off of domestic terror? Or do you think that the folks in Staten Island who got the wrong mail sort of had their alert raised because of all the focus on international terror?
FATHERSTON: Well, I think a little bit of both. I think this case, the red flag started popping up on this case immediately, due to the focus on terrorism in general, not just international terrorism. The No. 1 priority for the Department of Justice is terrorism investigations. And so a case that otherwise may have gone underneath the radar screen prior to 9/11, this case is a good example of one that actually raised -- came into focus on the radar screen immediately, and so led to an exhaustive and extensive investigation by the FBI and ATF.
O'BRIEN: Brit Fatherston is an assistant U.S. attorney, joining us this morning. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
FATHERSTON: Let's turn now to former FBI agent Bill Daly.
When you hear about this case, as bizarre as it is, with the amount of ammo and the weapons and everything, how surprised are you, or do you think this is the tip of the iceberg, and officials really aren't focused on it because they are focused on other kinds of terror threats?
BILL DALY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Well, certainly, Soledad, I think we are focused on it. The FBI reorganized themselves back in 2002 and carved out a section for domestic terrorism, because we didn't want to lose sight of the fact we have international terrorists, and although we have al Qaeda, which is our nemesis right now, is that we still have had domestic terrorist here whose struck at our heartland. Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City, was the largest terrorist event before 9/11.
O'BRIEN: Clearly, the classic case there.
DALY: Exactly. And even before that, if we go back, and even our history in the in the past 40 or so years showed we had underground people, we had Katherine Anne Powers (ph), who was blowing up power lines.
O'BRIEN: How great is the threat now then, would you say?
DALY: I would think that in the context of where we are, post- 9/11, with what we've put in place to gather intelligence, joint terrorist task forces, investigations, the public as a whole being more concerned and aware, I think we're in a better position to fight it. It doesn't mean it's not out there, it's not out there in its insipid stages. And unfortunately, in some cases, they're one and two groups of people, small groups, which are very difficult to identify.
O'BRIEN: So you think it's these groups as opposed to sort of individuals who may be extremists or just sort of crazy people as well.
DALY: Well, actually, I think it's kind of the tail-end of certain groups. It's one or two people who are more apt to actually commit an act. There are a lot of people who will talk about it, a lot of people who will rally around the cause. But there only a few people who will actually go out and start to plan to violate the law and try to commit an act. It's those people that becomes very difficult, because a, they more assimilated into our culture. They kind of immediately look like us, dress like us, talk like us, and difficult to identify.
And there go the issue of focusing on domestic terrorism and not being dissuaded by the larger issue of al Qaeda and the threats we've been bombarded with in an every day basis in the media.
O'BRIEN: Bill Daly is a former FBI agent. As always, it's nice to have. Happy New Year, if we don't get a chance to talk before.
DALY: And safe one too.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. And likewise, of course.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 30, 2003 - 09:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Last month, a 62-year-old man from east Texas pleaded guilty to possession of a chemical weapon. Investigators found a sodium cyanide bomb, capable of killing thousands of people in a storage locker belonging to William Krar. There are also more than 100 explosives, half a million rounds of ammunition, and a mound of white supremacist and anti-government literature. But outside of Tyler, Texas, the case is practically unknown.
Joining us this morning to discuss the case, and also the potential threat of home-grown terror in this country, is assistant U.S. attorney prosecuting the case, Brit Fatherston.
Thanks for joining us this morning. You're joining us live from Houston, I should mention.
This case is so bizarre and shocking. Why do you think it's flown under the radar for the bulk of the media?
BRIT FATHERSTON, ASST. U.S. ATTY., EASTERN DIST. OF TEXAS: You know, Soledad, I'm not really sure why. When this case really hit the media back in April of this year, the -- I believe the war in Iraq was just getting going. I guess the other things that were going on in the world sort of overshadowed the case. However, the -- we did not actually broadcast it or really make a lot about the case because the investigation was still ongoing at the time.
O'BRIEN: William Krar, 62 years old, as we mentioned. Give me a sense of how he came to your attention and how this storage locker -- we're seeing pictures of the outside and the inside -- how you discovered what was inside that locker.
FATHERSTON: Well, the case began coincidentally with the mistaken or wrong-delivered mail. Mail was mistakenly delivered to a residence in Staten Island, New York. It was -- the occupants of the residence opened up the envelope and found fraudulent documents of the United Nations, identification tags. They also found fraudulent birth certificates and other Department of Defense identification cards.
O'BRIEN: Forgive me for interrupting here, he has pled guilty. What do you know about what he was planning to do with all that documentation and also all this ammo that was found, and this sodium cyanide bomb as well?
FATHERSTON: Well, the documents were being sent to New Jersey to a who was known to have affiliations to New Jersey militia. The subsequent investigation revealed that William Krar had ties to militias, white supremacy groups, as well as the fringe groups on the right wing side. So we do not, at this point in time, despite an exhaustive investigation by the FBI and the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and Department of Defense investigative services, at this moment, we are still unable to determine specifically where the sodium cyanide lethal device was destined for, or really the other explosive devices as well.
O'BRIEN: Is it yours sense that because the government is so focused in now on the international terror threat from al Qaeda and other groups like that, that the focus has been pulled off of domestic terror? Or do you think that the folks in Staten Island who got the wrong mail sort of had their alert raised because of all the focus on international terror?
FATHERSTON: Well, I think a little bit of both. I think this case, the red flag started popping up on this case immediately, due to the focus on terrorism in general, not just international terrorism. The No. 1 priority for the Department of Justice is terrorism investigations. And so a case that otherwise may have gone underneath the radar screen prior to 9/11, this case is a good example of one that actually raised -- came into focus on the radar screen immediately, and so led to an exhaustive and extensive investigation by the FBI and ATF.
O'BRIEN: Brit Fatherston is an assistant U.S. attorney, joining us this morning. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.
FATHERSTON: Let's turn now to former FBI agent Bill Daly.
When you hear about this case, as bizarre as it is, with the amount of ammo and the weapons and everything, how surprised are you, or do you think this is the tip of the iceberg, and officials really aren't focused on it because they are focused on other kinds of terror threats?
BILL DALY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Well, certainly, Soledad, I think we are focused on it. The FBI reorganized themselves back in 2002 and carved out a section for domestic terrorism, because we didn't want to lose sight of the fact we have international terrorists, and although we have al Qaeda, which is our nemesis right now, is that we still have had domestic terrorist here whose struck at our heartland. Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City, was the largest terrorist event before 9/11.
O'BRIEN: Clearly, the classic case there.
DALY: Exactly. And even before that, if we go back, and even our history in the in the past 40 or so years showed we had underground people, we had Katherine Anne Powers (ph), who was blowing up power lines.
O'BRIEN: How great is the threat now then, would you say?
DALY: I would think that in the context of where we are, post- 9/11, with what we've put in place to gather intelligence, joint terrorist task forces, investigations, the public as a whole being more concerned and aware, I think we're in a better position to fight it. It doesn't mean it's not out there, it's not out there in its insipid stages. And unfortunately, in some cases, they're one and two groups of people, small groups, which are very difficult to identify.
O'BRIEN: So you think it's these groups as opposed to sort of individuals who may be extremists or just sort of crazy people as well.
DALY: Well, actually, I think it's kind of the tail-end of certain groups. It's one or two people who are more apt to actually commit an act. There are a lot of people who will talk about it, a lot of people who will rally around the cause. But there only a few people who will actually go out and start to plan to violate the law and try to commit an act. It's those people that becomes very difficult, because a, they more assimilated into our culture. They kind of immediately look like us, dress like us, talk like us, and difficult to identify.
And there go the issue of focusing on domestic terrorism and not being dissuaded by the larger issue of al Qaeda and the threats we've been bombarded with in an every day basis in the media.
O'BRIEN: Bill Daly is a former FBI agent. As always, it's nice to have. Happy New Year, if we don't get a chance to talk before.
DALY: And safe one too.
O'BRIEN: Thank you. And likewise, of course.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
