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American Morning
Interview With Pat Lalama
Aired January 01, 2004 - 08:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The State of California will investigate Michael Jackson's allegation that he was mistreated by Santa Barbara County sheriff's deputies. The county sheriff, Jim Anderson, vehemently denies any wrongdoing by his staff.
Yesterday, Anderson released tapes from Jackson's arrest.
Miguel Marquez has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Jackson, into the hands of detectives on the day of his arrest, a day Jackson claims he was manhandled.
JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY SHERIFF: He was in no way manhandled or abused. His treatment by this department can only be described as professional. I'm shocked and troubled by his allegations.
MARQUEZ: So shocked and troubled, the sheriff released video and audiotapes taken by his department the day Jackson was arrested.
ANDERSON: On two separate occasions during the transport to the jail, the arresting officer asked Mr. Jackson how he was doing. On the first occasion, Mr. Jackson responded by saying that he was fine. When he was asked the second time he responded by saying he was wonderful. He was also whistling and singing to himself during transport.
MARQUEZ: The sheriff says he considers Jackson's claims to be a formal citizen's complaint and has asked the California attorney general's office to investigate. He also says if the claims are proved false, Jackson will have another problem.
ANDERSON: I will request the criminal charges of false report of police officer misconduct be pursued against him.
MARQUEZ: Sheriff Anderson says Jackson seriously hurt his credibility.
But Jackson's attorney, Mark Geragos, in a statement, says it's the sheriff who has a credibility problem and, "We'll ask that the entire case, from its inception, be investigated by the attorney general's office."
One legal analyst says credibility will play a big part in the case.
CHRISTOPHER DARDEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If he has filed a false allegation, then certainly that undermines his credibility. And jurors are not likely to forget those false charges.
MARQUEZ: Those friendly to Jackson say if this is an issue of credibility, the Santa Barbara sheriff should release more than six and a half minutes of tape.
NAJEE ALI, JACKSON SUPPORTER: Michael was not tape the whole time while he was in custody. So we want to know what happened when the cameras and the tapes were not on.
MARQUEZ (on camera): California's attorney general, Bill Lockyer said an investigation is under way into whether or not Michael Jackson's rights were violated. How long it would he wouldn't say. But he did say when it's finished, the results will be made public.
Miguel Marquez, CNN, Santa Barbara, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: For his part, Jackson's camp released pictures the other day showing a bruise he claims was caused by tight handcuffs.
Reporter Pat Lalama from the TV program "Celebrity Justice" has been following the case, joins us from Los Angeles, where we've just discovered they dropped not a ball, but charges, right?
PAT LALAMA, REPORTER, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: Yes, OK.
LALAMA: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Pat, good to have you with us.
LALAMA: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Let's continue on the vein that Miguel Marquez was talking about. He released, the sheriff, Jim Anderson, in Santa Barbara, released other excerpts. And one of these excerpts comes from the time when Jackson was being transported by car. He was concerned about the handcuffs hurting his hands.
Let's listen for just a moment to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: These things hurt. They're tight, aren't they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just, if you want to scoot forward a little bit. They could, here just, there you go. Put some air on in here for us.
JACKSON: Thank you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: All right, that sounds like a relatively cordial exchange.
Does it prove anything?
LALAMA: You know what, Miles? I swore that in 2004 I would not be amazed by the things that happen in Los Angeles and the outlying areas regarding these cases. I am going to say that I would put money on the fact that there is no way the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department did anything wrong.
Let me also tell you that people were asking the other day, I think it was yesterday, well, did he know he was being video and audiotaped? There is no expectation of privacy when you're in the hands of authorities. And I really just don't understand where -- well, let me take that back. I do understand where they're going with this. They're trying to ring a bell that can't be unrung, and that's create doubt, take the focus off of the person who's being charged with some very serious allegations and get people wondering, well, gee, maybe it did happen, and, you know, poor Michael Jackson. That's the whole idea behind this. That's my feeling very, very strongly.
O'BRIEN: All right, so you would say, then, that this is a fully orchestrated campaign, Mark Geragos on board, perhaps pulling the strings?
LALAMA: Listen, he is a very, very savvy attorney and I have seen on other occasions and other trials where he will, where he will sort of throw out these ideas. Let me give you an idea of the Winona Ryder trial, where out of nowhere he implied in court to the jury that perhaps the security guards asked her to lift her top and bare her, you know, body to them. And it just comes out of nowhere.
And I think in this case, he's already started the campaign of let's divert attention, let's create this sense that there could be a problem. Look, we've got an attorney general involved now. What happened to the original allegations? And I just think it's a diversionary tactic.
O'BRIEN: All right, but the sheriff is quoted as saying if, in fact, it is disproven, Jackson's allegations, and his allegations, we should point out, have only been leveled in a TV interview, not formally anywhere.
LALAMA: Right.
O'BRIEN: If they're disproven, he would seek to file charges against Jackson.
Now, do you think the sheriff is handling this right?
LALAMA: I do. I really do. I feel that he has no choice. You know, as I said before, a lot of times people think public servants should just stay out of it, not hold news conferences, do the public's work. But I think in this case the sheriff has no choice because when you start raising these allegations, playing the race card, saying that someone was beaten up by authorities or mishandled, I think that they have to come back with a tit for tat defense. And I think the sheriff did the right thing.
O'BRIEN: All right, with the problem "Celebrity Justice," Pat Lalama.
I'm sorry, we just ran out of time.
I apologize getting you up early for a short interview.
LALAMA: No problem.
O'BRIEN: We'll see you again soon in the new year.
LALAMA: OK.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in.
LALAMA: You bet. No problem.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 1, 2004 - 08:17 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The State of California will investigate Michael Jackson's allegation that he was mistreated by Santa Barbara County sheriff's deputies. The county sheriff, Jim Anderson, vehemently denies any wrongdoing by his staff.
Yesterday, Anderson released tapes from Jackson's arrest.
Miguel Marquez has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Jackson, into the hands of detectives on the day of his arrest, a day Jackson claims he was manhandled.
JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY SHERIFF: He was in no way manhandled or abused. His treatment by this department can only be described as professional. I'm shocked and troubled by his allegations.
MARQUEZ: So shocked and troubled, the sheriff released video and audiotapes taken by his department the day Jackson was arrested.
ANDERSON: On two separate occasions during the transport to the jail, the arresting officer asked Mr. Jackson how he was doing. On the first occasion, Mr. Jackson responded by saying that he was fine. When he was asked the second time he responded by saying he was wonderful. He was also whistling and singing to himself during transport.
MARQUEZ: The sheriff says he considers Jackson's claims to be a formal citizen's complaint and has asked the California attorney general's office to investigate. He also says if the claims are proved false, Jackson will have another problem.
ANDERSON: I will request the criminal charges of false report of police officer misconduct be pursued against him.
MARQUEZ: Sheriff Anderson says Jackson seriously hurt his credibility.
But Jackson's attorney, Mark Geragos, in a statement, says it's the sheriff who has a credibility problem and, "We'll ask that the entire case, from its inception, be investigated by the attorney general's office."
One legal analyst says credibility will play a big part in the case.
CHRISTOPHER DARDEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If he has filed a false allegation, then certainly that undermines his credibility. And jurors are not likely to forget those false charges.
MARQUEZ: Those friendly to Jackson say if this is an issue of credibility, the Santa Barbara sheriff should release more than six and a half minutes of tape.
NAJEE ALI, JACKSON SUPPORTER: Michael was not tape the whole time while he was in custody. So we want to know what happened when the cameras and the tapes were not on.
MARQUEZ (on camera): California's attorney general, Bill Lockyer said an investigation is under way into whether or not Michael Jackson's rights were violated. How long it would he wouldn't say. But he did say when it's finished, the results will be made public.
Miguel Marquez, CNN, Santa Barbara, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: For his part, Jackson's camp released pictures the other day showing a bruise he claims was caused by tight handcuffs.
Reporter Pat Lalama from the TV program "Celebrity Justice" has been following the case, joins us from Los Angeles, where we've just discovered they dropped not a ball, but charges, right?
PAT LALAMA, REPORTER, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Absolutely.
O'BRIEN: Yes, OK.
LALAMA: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Pat, good to have you with us.
LALAMA: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Let's continue on the vein that Miguel Marquez was talking about. He released, the sheriff, Jim Anderson, in Santa Barbara, released other excerpts. And one of these excerpts comes from the time when Jackson was being transported by car. He was concerned about the handcuffs hurting his hands.
Let's listen for just a moment to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: These things hurt. They're tight, aren't they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just, if you want to scoot forward a little bit. They could, here just, there you go. Put some air on in here for us.
JACKSON: Thank you. (END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: All right, that sounds like a relatively cordial exchange.
Does it prove anything?
LALAMA: You know what, Miles? I swore that in 2004 I would not be amazed by the things that happen in Los Angeles and the outlying areas regarding these cases. I am going to say that I would put money on the fact that there is no way the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department did anything wrong.
Let me also tell you that people were asking the other day, I think it was yesterday, well, did he know he was being video and audiotaped? There is no expectation of privacy when you're in the hands of authorities. And I really just don't understand where -- well, let me take that back. I do understand where they're going with this. They're trying to ring a bell that can't be unrung, and that's create doubt, take the focus off of the person who's being charged with some very serious allegations and get people wondering, well, gee, maybe it did happen, and, you know, poor Michael Jackson. That's the whole idea behind this. That's my feeling very, very strongly.
O'BRIEN: All right, so you would say, then, that this is a fully orchestrated campaign, Mark Geragos on board, perhaps pulling the strings?
LALAMA: Listen, he is a very, very savvy attorney and I have seen on other occasions and other trials where he will, where he will sort of throw out these ideas. Let me give you an idea of the Winona Ryder trial, where out of nowhere he implied in court to the jury that perhaps the security guards asked her to lift her top and bare her, you know, body to them. And it just comes out of nowhere.
And I think in this case, he's already started the campaign of let's divert attention, let's create this sense that there could be a problem. Look, we've got an attorney general involved now. What happened to the original allegations? And I just think it's a diversionary tactic.
O'BRIEN: All right, but the sheriff is quoted as saying if, in fact, it is disproven, Jackson's allegations, and his allegations, we should point out, have only been leveled in a TV interview, not formally anywhere.
LALAMA: Right.
O'BRIEN: If they're disproven, he would seek to file charges against Jackson.
Now, do you think the sheriff is handling this right?
LALAMA: I do. I really do. I feel that he has no choice. You know, as I said before, a lot of times people think public servants should just stay out of it, not hold news conferences, do the public's work. But I think in this case the sheriff has no choice because when you start raising these allegations, playing the race card, saying that someone was beaten up by authorities or mishandled, I think that they have to come back with a tit for tat defense. And I think the sheriff did the right thing.
O'BRIEN: All right, with the problem "Celebrity Justice," Pat Lalama.
I'm sorry, we just ran out of time.
I apologize getting you up early for a short interview.
LALAMA: No problem.
O'BRIEN: We'll see you again soon in the new year.
LALAMA: OK.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in.
LALAMA: You bet. No problem.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
