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Trouble in Neverland: Police Conduct in Jackson Arrest

Aired January 01, 2004 - 12:36   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the claims and counter-claims over Jackson's arrest have for the moment taken the spotlight off the more serious charges of child molestation. Is this just a sidebar, or could it have an impact on the case?
Joining me now to talk about it, CNN legal analyst and former Los Angeles prosecutor Christopher Darden.

Hi -- Chris.

CHRISTOPHER DARDEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

PHILLIPS: Well, I've got a question about these tapes. That is something that everyone has been talking about. It was brought up in Miguel Marquez's piece. Why not just play the whole tape, audio, video, then it leaves no room for question.

DARDEN: Well, I would imagine that the original tapes, complete tapes, are going to be turned over to the State Attorney General. There may be additional videotape that may contain the images of other inmates and other people who perhaps, you know, the sheriff doesn't want to make public at this particular point.

But when one looks at the footage of the jail area and the booking area and the area where Michael Jackson went to use the toilet, it's clear that there were video cameras pointed directly toward the entrance to that cell. You see at least two or three video cameras in that area, and in fact this footage can be found at CNN.com.

So, certainly, there's going to be more tape and I'm sure that at some point it's going to find its way into the public domain.

PHILLIPS: Well, a lot of curious minds, that's for sure.

This e-mail, Chris, coming from Jerry.

"Sure, Michael Jackson was handled with kid gloves while being taped. What happened out of sight is the issue. What about the damage to his arm? Are we going to believe our eyes of the sheriff?"

What's your take on the pictures and the talk and what we saw on Michael Jackson's arm?

DARDEN: Well, you know, for one thing, you know, Michael Jackson has given us no details in terms of how this injury allegedly occurred. I mean, was he punched? Did someone twist his arm behind his back? I mean, we really don't know and, once again, when you look at the footage of Michael Jackson leaving the county jail, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with him at all. He appears to be rather jovial, smiling, waving to the crowd.

You know, it's very, very hard for me to believe that these deputies are going to injure the king of pop on a day and at a time when the entire world is watching. I mean, there were 100 TV cameras right outside that building. Mark Geragos is also in the county jail. You know, I'll tell you, I will be very, very surprised if there is some evidence that these deputies abused Michael Jackson.

PHILLIPS: Jay, from Alabama: "Don't Mr. Jackson and all his spokespeople and Geragos realize how stupid they look coming up with all of these defenses? None of these people have any credibility left."

It is sort of a war. You hear the sheriff saying this is about credibility. Now you've got Geragos coming forward, saying this is about credibility, and everyone is blaming it on each other.

DARDEN: That's true. That's true. Both sides are pointing at each other. But it is a credibility contest.

On the one hand, there is the credibility of this young boy and the defense has done very well in terms of really, really challenging that young man's or that boy's credibility. And now Michael Jackson makes these allegations. If these allegations are proven to be false, then what about his credibility? And what does it mean -- what should we draw, when we hear him say, "I didn't molest this boy."

If he lied about this, being abused by the deputies, arguably, he'd also lie about molesting this boy.

PHILLIPS: J.C., in California, Chris, says, "Michael Jackson is displaying the classic symptoms of a pathological liar. Could this be the beginning of a new defense strategy, citing mental illness as the reason for his inappropriate behavior with children?"

DARDEN: You know, I doubt that. I mean, to suggest that he would put on a psychiatric defense, on the one hand, to explain his behavior with children, might also tend to cause some people to believe that he in fact molested this boy and that he suffers from some psychiatric affliction that causes him to molest children.

I don't think you're ever going to see a psychiatric defense in this case. The issue is going to be did he do it or did he not do it, on the one hand, and from a legal perspective, is there enough evidence to convince us that he did do it beyond a reasonable doubt.

PHILLIPS: Do you think his lifestyle, his looks, how he's changed, his skin color, his face, his hair, would that play a part in this at all, when you set him up as an eccentric person?

DARDEN: You know, it does, it does play, and I'll tell you how, because I've been thinking about his an awful lot, and when you think about the interview, the Bashir interview, back in February, the interview on CBS a few days ago, I sit and I wonder, why would they do this? Why would they allow him to be interviewed by CBS, because he essentially places himself at the scene of the crime when he says he allows children to sleep in his bedroom along with him.

And I guess in some sense, the defense is trying to establish a double standard in terms of how adults react to children. Most of us would not sleep in a bed with a child not our own, but Michael Jackson, because he is eccentric, would. A different standard of conduct, a different standard of behavior, and I think they want us -- the defense wants us to judge Michael Jackson by Michael Jackson's standard of behavior or conduct.

PHILLIPS: Well, this entire case brings up a lot of questions and a lot of interest, of course.

Christopher Darden, our legal analyst. We'll be talking, I'm sure, quite a bit more. Thanks -- Chris.

DARDEN: Yes. Happy New Year.

PHILLIPS: Happy New Year to you too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired January 1, 2004 - 12:36   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the claims and counter-claims over Jackson's arrest have for the moment taken the spotlight off the more serious charges of child molestation. Is this just a sidebar, or could it have an impact on the case?
Joining me now to talk about it, CNN legal analyst and former Los Angeles prosecutor Christopher Darden.

Hi -- Chris.

CHRISTOPHER DARDEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

PHILLIPS: Well, I've got a question about these tapes. That is something that everyone has been talking about. It was brought up in Miguel Marquez's piece. Why not just play the whole tape, audio, video, then it leaves no room for question.

DARDEN: Well, I would imagine that the original tapes, complete tapes, are going to be turned over to the State Attorney General. There may be additional videotape that may contain the images of other inmates and other people who perhaps, you know, the sheriff doesn't want to make public at this particular point.

But when one looks at the footage of the jail area and the booking area and the area where Michael Jackson went to use the toilet, it's clear that there were video cameras pointed directly toward the entrance to that cell. You see at least two or three video cameras in that area, and in fact this footage can be found at CNN.com.

So, certainly, there's going to be more tape and I'm sure that at some point it's going to find its way into the public domain.

PHILLIPS: Well, a lot of curious minds, that's for sure.

This e-mail, Chris, coming from Jerry.

"Sure, Michael Jackson was handled with kid gloves while being taped. What happened out of sight is the issue. What about the damage to his arm? Are we going to believe our eyes of the sheriff?"

What's your take on the pictures and the talk and what we saw on Michael Jackson's arm?

DARDEN: Well, you know, for one thing, you know, Michael Jackson has given us no details in terms of how this injury allegedly occurred. I mean, was he punched? Did someone twist his arm behind his back? I mean, we really don't know and, once again, when you look at the footage of Michael Jackson leaving the county jail, there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with him at all. He appears to be rather jovial, smiling, waving to the crowd.

You know, it's very, very hard for me to believe that these deputies are going to injure the king of pop on a day and at a time when the entire world is watching. I mean, there were 100 TV cameras right outside that building. Mark Geragos is also in the county jail. You know, I'll tell you, I will be very, very surprised if there is some evidence that these deputies abused Michael Jackson.

PHILLIPS: Jay, from Alabama: "Don't Mr. Jackson and all his spokespeople and Geragos realize how stupid they look coming up with all of these defenses? None of these people have any credibility left."

It is sort of a war. You hear the sheriff saying this is about credibility. Now you've got Geragos coming forward, saying this is about credibility, and everyone is blaming it on each other.

DARDEN: That's true. That's true. Both sides are pointing at each other. But it is a credibility contest.

On the one hand, there is the credibility of this young boy and the defense has done very well in terms of really, really challenging that young man's or that boy's credibility. And now Michael Jackson makes these allegations. If these allegations are proven to be false, then what about his credibility? And what does it mean -- what should we draw, when we hear him say, "I didn't molest this boy."

If he lied about this, being abused by the deputies, arguably, he'd also lie about molesting this boy.

PHILLIPS: J.C., in California, Chris, says, "Michael Jackson is displaying the classic symptoms of a pathological liar. Could this be the beginning of a new defense strategy, citing mental illness as the reason for his inappropriate behavior with children?"

DARDEN: You know, I doubt that. I mean, to suggest that he would put on a psychiatric defense, on the one hand, to explain his behavior with children, might also tend to cause some people to believe that he in fact molested this boy and that he suffers from some psychiatric affliction that causes him to molest children.

I don't think you're ever going to see a psychiatric defense in this case. The issue is going to be did he do it or did he not do it, on the one hand, and from a legal perspective, is there enough evidence to convince us that he did do it beyond a reasonable doubt.

PHILLIPS: Do you think his lifestyle, his looks, how he's changed, his skin color, his face, his hair, would that play a part in this at all, when you set him up as an eccentric person?

DARDEN: You know, it does, it does play, and I'll tell you how, because I've been thinking about his an awful lot, and when you think about the interview, the Bashir interview, back in February, the interview on CBS a few days ago, I sit and I wonder, why would they do this? Why would they allow him to be interviewed by CBS, because he essentially places himself at the scene of the crime when he says he allows children to sleep in his bedroom along with him.

And I guess in some sense, the defense is trying to establish a double standard in terms of how adults react to children. Most of us would not sleep in a bed with a child not our own, but Michael Jackson, because he is eccentric, would. A different standard of conduct, a different standard of behavior, and I think they want us -- the defense wants us to judge Michael Jackson by Michael Jackson's standard of behavior or conduct.

PHILLIPS: Well, this entire case brings up a lot of questions and a lot of interest, of course.

Christopher Darden, our legal analyst. We'll be talking, I'm sure, quite a bit more. Thanks -- Chris.

DARDEN: Yes. Happy New Year.

PHILLIPS: Happy New Year to you too.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com