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American Morning

Interviews With Heather Herman, John Kirtland

Aired January 13, 2004 - 09:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Denver voters will decide in August whether to let the circus come to town. It's because of the efforts of 15-year-old Heather Herman who believes that circus animals are being treated unfairly. Heather Herman join us this morning from Denver. Hey, Heather. Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us.
HEATHER HERMAN, WANTS TO BAN CIRCUS IN DENVER: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of how this all got started. Why did you want to stop the circus from coming in to Denver?

HERMAN: Well, when I was about 13 or younger, I had doing research just about different things about animals. And I had come across some very disturbing stuff about animals and the circus. And I just decided that I wanted to do something to help them.

So I founded an organization called YOTAA, which is Youth Opposed To Animal Acts. And slowly we just started to grow and get bigger, and now our -- we have an initiative on the ballot for August.

O'BRIEN: You collected some 6,000 signatures. Were they hard to get?

HERMAN: Yes, they were pretty hard. As you guys know, the amount of signatures you have to collect depends on the mayoral election. And you have to take a percent of that and collect a number of signatures.

And we started collecting them before the 2003 Denver mayoral election. And after the election, we were told we had to collect more signatures to meet the higher percentage of that number. And so we worked all the way up to the deadline but we got them all.

O'BRIEN: You had to do a lot of work there. Now you have said what concerns you the most is mistreatment of the circus animals. Do you have any proof of the mistreatment? What have you seen that you would consider mistreatment of these animals?

HERMAN: Well, for starters, they aren't accredited by the American Zoological Association. And what that is is you have to meet a certain amount of requirements. And also that there's USDA documents from the United States Department of Agriculture that, you know, they do inspections and do sightings. And they have written numerous countless reports on circuses everywhere.

And so, you know, the documents, you know, they're here. And a lot of them can be pretty, you know, disturbing about some of the training methods...

O'BRIEN: Forgive me for cutting you off there for one second, but I just want to understand. You're complaining about one specific circus coming. But these are sort of overall complaints about the circus? Sort of morally, you're against circuses? Is that what you're saying?

HERMAN: No. Actually, we're not against any one circus. You know we're not against the circus at all. We're just against animals in the circus. And if the city voters, the Denver, decide to pass this law, the circus is welcome to come to town and still bring their human acts and stuff. And they can bring, you know, their circus -- just without the animals. And this is also due to public health and safety.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with this, but in -- it was June 10th of 2001, there was an elephant rampage at the Denver Zoo, which is an accredited organization by the American Zoological association. And they brought an unaccredited organization into the zoo and caused a rampage in the zoo. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE) somebody -- there was a list of things that had happened. A baby was also hurt in that.

O'BRIEN: So your overall concern is getting the animals out of the circus. Heather Herman, this all comes up for a vote, I should say, in August. Good luck to you in your issues. Thanks for talking with us.

We want to now get the other side of the issue. John Kirtland is the executive director of Animal Stewardship with the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus. He's also in Denver this morning.

Mr. Kirtland, thanks for being with us. You heard a lot of what Heather had to say. She says that she thinks the animals sort of by virtue of being in the circus, by being in cages, are being mistreated. How do you respond to those allegations? She, by the way, is obviously not alone in how she feels about this.

JOHN KIRTLAND, EXECUTIVE DIR. OF ANIMAL STEWARDSHIP: We applaud her passion for caring about animals, but her focus is misdirected. The animals in Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey receive the best care possible. We have an animal care program that's as good as any zoo and better than most.

She did her research. We just wish she'd actually come to the circus instead of relying on Internet reports and newspaper articles.

O'BRIEN: Heather says she would welcome the circus as long as there was no animals. Can you envision the circus that just has the human acts but no animals. Is that a possibility at all?

KIRTLAND: No, it's not. A circus without animals is just a carnival, it's not a circus at all. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) our animals are part of our namely and part of the circus and we would never go anywhere without them. O'BRIEN: Is there any financial impact to what's going on right now in Denver? And do you fear this sort of spiraling, getting bigger and going into other cities with a similar initiative.?

KIRTLAND: Yes, this would have a significant financial impact on the city of Denver. It would cost them about $8 million in revenue per year. And as most large cities are, they're financially strapped already. So it would have a significant impact.

We don't -- we're confident that the voters of Denver will make the rational choice and will support the circus as they have for the last 40 years. We have a quarter-million visitors come to see the circus every year we come. And we just feel that they'll turn out to vote and they will make the right decision.

O'BRIEN: Well obviously it's an issue that the voters are going to have to hash out. John Kirtland joining us as well. Thanks a lot for being with us.

KIRTLAND: You're welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired January 13, 2004 - 09:42   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Denver voters will decide in August whether to let the circus come to town. It's because of the efforts of 15-year-old Heather Herman who believes that circus animals are being treated unfairly. Heather Herman join us this morning from Denver. Hey, Heather. Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us.
HEATHER HERMAN, WANTS TO BAN CIRCUS IN DENVER: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense of how this all got started. Why did you want to stop the circus from coming in to Denver?

HERMAN: Well, when I was about 13 or younger, I had doing research just about different things about animals. And I had come across some very disturbing stuff about animals and the circus. And I just decided that I wanted to do something to help them.

So I founded an organization called YOTAA, which is Youth Opposed To Animal Acts. And slowly we just started to grow and get bigger, and now our -- we have an initiative on the ballot for August.

O'BRIEN: You collected some 6,000 signatures. Were they hard to get?

HERMAN: Yes, they were pretty hard. As you guys know, the amount of signatures you have to collect depends on the mayoral election. And you have to take a percent of that and collect a number of signatures.

And we started collecting them before the 2003 Denver mayoral election. And after the election, we were told we had to collect more signatures to meet the higher percentage of that number. And so we worked all the way up to the deadline but we got them all.

O'BRIEN: You had to do a lot of work there. Now you have said what concerns you the most is mistreatment of the circus animals. Do you have any proof of the mistreatment? What have you seen that you would consider mistreatment of these animals?

HERMAN: Well, for starters, they aren't accredited by the American Zoological Association. And what that is is you have to meet a certain amount of requirements. And also that there's USDA documents from the United States Department of Agriculture that, you know, they do inspections and do sightings. And they have written numerous countless reports on circuses everywhere.

And so, you know, the documents, you know, they're here. And a lot of them can be pretty, you know, disturbing about some of the training methods...

O'BRIEN: Forgive me for cutting you off there for one second, but I just want to understand. You're complaining about one specific circus coming. But these are sort of overall complaints about the circus? Sort of morally, you're against circuses? Is that what you're saying?

HERMAN: No. Actually, we're not against any one circus. You know we're not against the circus at all. We're just against animals in the circus. And if the city voters, the Denver, decide to pass this law, the circus is welcome to come to town and still bring their human acts and stuff. And they can bring, you know, their circus -- just without the animals. And this is also due to public health and safety.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with this, but in -- it was June 10th of 2001, there was an elephant rampage at the Denver Zoo, which is an accredited organization by the American Zoological association. And they brought an unaccredited organization into the zoo and caused a rampage in the zoo. And (UNINTELLIGIBLE) somebody -- there was a list of things that had happened. A baby was also hurt in that.

O'BRIEN: So your overall concern is getting the animals out of the circus. Heather Herman, this all comes up for a vote, I should say, in August. Good luck to you in your issues. Thanks for talking with us.

We want to now get the other side of the issue. John Kirtland is the executive director of Animal Stewardship with the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus. He's also in Denver this morning.

Mr. Kirtland, thanks for being with us. You heard a lot of what Heather had to say. She says that she thinks the animals sort of by virtue of being in the circus, by being in cages, are being mistreated. How do you respond to those allegations? She, by the way, is obviously not alone in how she feels about this.

JOHN KIRTLAND, EXECUTIVE DIR. OF ANIMAL STEWARDSHIP: We applaud her passion for caring about animals, but her focus is misdirected. The animals in Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey receive the best care possible. We have an animal care program that's as good as any zoo and better than most.

She did her research. We just wish she'd actually come to the circus instead of relying on Internet reports and newspaper articles.

O'BRIEN: Heather says she would welcome the circus as long as there was no animals. Can you envision the circus that just has the human acts but no animals. Is that a possibility at all?

KIRTLAND: No, it's not. A circus without animals is just a carnival, it's not a circus at all. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) our animals are part of our namely and part of the circus and we would never go anywhere without them. O'BRIEN: Is there any financial impact to what's going on right now in Denver? And do you fear this sort of spiraling, getting bigger and going into other cities with a similar initiative.?

KIRTLAND: Yes, this would have a significant financial impact on the city of Denver. It would cost them about $8 million in revenue per year. And as most large cities are, they're financially strapped already. So it would have a significant impact.

We don't -- we're confident that the voters of Denver will make the rational choice and will support the circus as they have for the last 40 years. We have a quarter-million visitors come to see the circus every year we come. And we just feel that they'll turn out to vote and they will make the right decision.

O'BRIEN: Well obviously it's an issue that the voters are going to have to hash out. John Kirtland joining us as well. Thanks a lot for being with us.

KIRTLAND: You're welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com