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CNN Live Saturday
Defining Marriage: To Amend or Not to Amend?
Aired January 24, 2004 - 12:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, polls suggest that most Americans agree with President Bush's opposition to same sex marriage. In his State of the Union address Tuesday, the president signaled his support for a constitutional amendment banning it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the Constitutional process. Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Massachusetts propelled the issue to the national spotlight last fall when the state Supreme Court ruled same sex marriage is constitutional.
Let's talk about all this with our guest. Matt Daniels is with the Alliance for Marriage.
Winnie Stachelberg is with the Human Rights Campaign, a gay and lesbian advocacy group, and both are joining us from Washington.
MATT DANIELS, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Hello, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, good to see both of you.
Well, the president made gay marriage an issue that's now possibly in the forefront of the race for the White House. Winnie, should he have?
WINNIE STACHELBERG, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that there is a role for the president to play in discussions about the values of our country. But somehow the president is stepping right up to the edge of endorsing a constitutional amendment banning marriage for same sex couples, seems to me a little bit off. Writing discrimination into this Constitution is not a good idea. It's why conservatives, people like George Will and Senator Hagel and Representative Bob Barr, all oppose amending the United States Constitution.
You know, marriage is about a thousand rights and benefits and responsibilities that are accorded to loving and committed couples in this country today. In a post 9/11 world, where we're all struggling for security and stability, we're hoping that the president is going to help us bring people together, not divide us. The gay and lesbian community is looking for that kind of stability and security that marriage provides. Things like Social Security survivor benefits, hospital visitation, the ability to make funeral arrangements for a loved one. And that's what I think that the president ought to be talking about, bringing people together.
WHITFIELD: Matt...
STACHELBERG: You know, the other thing that's important as we're -- let me just finish up. The other thing that's important -- as we're entering an election -- you know, the thing that's on the minds of the American people are healthcare, the education of our nation's children, job security, terrorism. People are not worried about so- called threats from people who want to enter loving and committed relationships.
WHITFIELD: Well, Matt, I imagine you disagree on this. Now, it is potentially -- it is a political issue and underscored by the president's State of the Union address.
DANIELS: I lost the audio.
WHITFIELD: OK. Well, we'll try to re-establish that audio with Matt in a moment.
Let's continue our conversation with Winnie. And Winnie, and you're seeing that the president was really trying to appeal to the conservatives out there and not necessarily trying to -- I guess, be a wedge in between any of the Democratic candidates out there. Winnie, can you hear me?
All right. Well, it looks like we've lost our audio with both of our guests there. We'll try to resume this conversation in a moment. For now, we're going to take a short break and try to sort things out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: OK. We think we've worked out some technical kinks now. We're talking about gay marriage and how it's now a political hot button issue in the race to the White House. This after the president's State of the Union address.
With us from Washington is Matt Daniels with the Alliance for Marriage and Winnie Stachelberg with the Human Rights Campaign, which is a gay and lesbian advocacy group.
And, Matt, you didn't get a chance to respond, but hopefully you can hear me OK now.
DANIELS: I can, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: OK, good. Why should the issue of gay marriage take center stage in the race to the White House alongside Social Security, issues of healthcare, and national security?
DANIELS: The answer is easy -- because the courts are putting it there.
You know, the president spoke for the majority of the American people when he said that we need to protect the common sense definition of marriage. We all believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. I mean, the polls reflect that.
But they don't have a right to redefine marriage for our entire society. The federal marriage amendment is not about benefits. It never will be. It's about marriage. And the president is right to stand up and say, In an era when the courts are about to destroy marriage and take away something that most Americans want to pass on to our children and our grandchildren -- that they have a right in a democracy to make their voice heard through an amendment.
The constitutional problem created by the courts demands a constitutional fix, and that's why the president mentioned it in this State of the Union.
WHITFIELD: So, Matt, you do believe that the federal government should be defining marriage.
Winnie, is it your position that the states should only have that role in defining marriage?
STAHCELBERG: Well, the traditional role with respect to marriage has fallen to the states for well over 200 years. I think that's the proper place for it to reside.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: But you say keep it -- keep it the same?
(CROSSTALK)
STACHELBERG: The federal government has a role, but to ensure equality for all Americans -- and rather than a judiciary that Matt claims has run amuck, I think we've got to remember that the role of the judiciary's very important in ensuring civil rights for all Americans. Remember Brown versus Board of Ed; remember Loving versus Virginia, where the court took action when civil rights were denied people. And I think that there is always going to be a proper role for the courts of the United States when it comes to benefits and responsibilities and equality for all Americans, including the gay and lesbian community. We're looking for stability and security in a world and in a time where it's very difficult to have that.
DANIELS: Fredricka, it's important to acknowledge, the federal marriage amendment is supported by the man who organized the March on Washington for Martin Luther King and by two of the largest black denominations in America. These are great men and women -- these people are my friends -- and they're standing together with people of every race, color and creed and with the president in saying we cannot let the courts take away our marriage laws.
Our laws need to send a positive message to kids about marriage and family -- a message that's just common sense, that's marriage is a man and a woman. And that's all the American people want. And it will be an issue in the election because the other side, for 10 years, has had a litigation strategy to force the redefinition of marriage on every state in the nation. Make no mistake about it. They're the ones who have created the constitutional problem and our federal marriage amendment, which we drafted, will give the American people a chance to solve that problem.
WHITFIELD: But Matt, didn't you just touch on the dispute -- or at the heart of the dispute -- is who defines marriage? And, it has to be acknowledged that there are gay couples in this country just as there are heterosexual couples in this country. So, you know, how should it be determined what is...
(CROSSTALK)
DANIELS: Right.
We agree that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. Most Americans are not interested in any way harming gay and lesbian couples. But they don't believe they have a right to redefine marriage for our entire society because this is about what sort of message the laws will send to our children and grandchildren.
And the polls are with us, Fredricka. This is not radical proposition. The president is speaking for a broad majority when he says we need to protect marriage as a man and woman from the courts and if we don't do it at the level of the Constitution, that won't happen.
This hasn't been created by the president; it wasn't created by the Alliance for Marriage. It was created by groups that have been litigating for 10 years to do an end run around democracy and public opinion. And now's the time to let the American people have the final say.
STACHELBERG: See, the problem is, Matt can't have it both ways. Matt can't say gay and lesbian couples and our families should be free to live as we choose and then go ahead and foster and support a constitutional amendment that would write discrimination into the United States Constitution, a sacred document that's been amended only 17 times since the Bill of Rights.
He can't have it both ways and foster that kind of discrimination.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Well, Winnie, I'm going to have to allow you to have the last word on that because we're now out of time.
Winnie Stachelberd (sic) of the Human Rights Campaign and Matt Daniels of the Alliance for Marriage, thanks very much both of you for joining us from Washington.
STACHELBERG: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 24, 2004 - 12:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, polls suggest that most Americans agree with President Bush's opposition to same sex marriage. In his State of the Union address Tuesday, the president signaled his support for a constitutional amendment banning it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the Constitutional process. Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Massachusetts propelled the issue to the national spotlight last fall when the state Supreme Court ruled same sex marriage is constitutional.
Let's talk about all this with our guest. Matt Daniels is with the Alliance for Marriage.
Winnie Stachelberg is with the Human Rights Campaign, a gay and lesbian advocacy group, and both are joining us from Washington.
MATT DANIELS, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Hello, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, good to see both of you.
Well, the president made gay marriage an issue that's now possibly in the forefront of the race for the White House. Winnie, should he have?
WINNIE STACHELBERG, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Well, I think that there is a role for the president to play in discussions about the values of our country. But somehow the president is stepping right up to the edge of endorsing a constitutional amendment banning marriage for same sex couples, seems to me a little bit off. Writing discrimination into this Constitution is not a good idea. It's why conservatives, people like George Will and Senator Hagel and Representative Bob Barr, all oppose amending the United States Constitution.
You know, marriage is about a thousand rights and benefits and responsibilities that are accorded to loving and committed couples in this country today. In a post 9/11 world, where we're all struggling for security and stability, we're hoping that the president is going to help us bring people together, not divide us. The gay and lesbian community is looking for that kind of stability and security that marriage provides. Things like Social Security survivor benefits, hospital visitation, the ability to make funeral arrangements for a loved one. And that's what I think that the president ought to be talking about, bringing people together.
WHITFIELD: Matt...
STACHELBERG: You know, the other thing that's important as we're -- let me just finish up. The other thing that's important -- as we're entering an election -- you know, the thing that's on the minds of the American people are healthcare, the education of our nation's children, job security, terrorism. People are not worried about so- called threats from people who want to enter loving and committed relationships.
WHITFIELD: Well, Matt, I imagine you disagree on this. Now, it is potentially -- it is a political issue and underscored by the president's State of the Union address.
DANIELS: I lost the audio.
WHITFIELD: OK. Well, we'll try to re-establish that audio with Matt in a moment.
Let's continue our conversation with Winnie. And Winnie, and you're seeing that the president was really trying to appeal to the conservatives out there and not necessarily trying to -- I guess, be a wedge in between any of the Democratic candidates out there. Winnie, can you hear me?
All right. Well, it looks like we've lost our audio with both of our guests there. We'll try to resume this conversation in a moment. For now, we're going to take a short break and try to sort things out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: OK. We think we've worked out some technical kinks now. We're talking about gay marriage and how it's now a political hot button issue in the race to the White House. This after the president's State of the Union address.
With us from Washington is Matt Daniels with the Alliance for Marriage and Winnie Stachelberg with the Human Rights Campaign, which is a gay and lesbian advocacy group.
And, Matt, you didn't get a chance to respond, but hopefully you can hear me OK now.
DANIELS: I can, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: OK, good. Why should the issue of gay marriage take center stage in the race to the White House alongside Social Security, issues of healthcare, and national security?
DANIELS: The answer is easy -- because the courts are putting it there.
You know, the president spoke for the majority of the American people when he said that we need to protect the common sense definition of marriage. We all believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. I mean, the polls reflect that.
But they don't have a right to redefine marriage for our entire society. The federal marriage amendment is not about benefits. It never will be. It's about marriage. And the president is right to stand up and say, In an era when the courts are about to destroy marriage and take away something that most Americans want to pass on to our children and our grandchildren -- that they have a right in a democracy to make their voice heard through an amendment.
The constitutional problem created by the courts demands a constitutional fix, and that's why the president mentioned it in this State of the Union.
WHITFIELD: So, Matt, you do believe that the federal government should be defining marriage.
Winnie, is it your position that the states should only have that role in defining marriage?
STAHCELBERG: Well, the traditional role with respect to marriage has fallen to the states for well over 200 years. I think that's the proper place for it to reside.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: But you say keep it -- keep it the same?
(CROSSTALK)
STACHELBERG: The federal government has a role, but to ensure equality for all Americans -- and rather than a judiciary that Matt claims has run amuck, I think we've got to remember that the role of the judiciary's very important in ensuring civil rights for all Americans. Remember Brown versus Board of Ed; remember Loving versus Virginia, where the court took action when civil rights were denied people. And I think that there is always going to be a proper role for the courts of the United States when it comes to benefits and responsibilities and equality for all Americans, including the gay and lesbian community. We're looking for stability and security in a world and in a time where it's very difficult to have that.
DANIELS: Fredricka, it's important to acknowledge, the federal marriage amendment is supported by the man who organized the March on Washington for Martin Luther King and by two of the largest black denominations in America. These are great men and women -- these people are my friends -- and they're standing together with people of every race, color and creed and with the president in saying we cannot let the courts take away our marriage laws.
Our laws need to send a positive message to kids about marriage and family -- a message that's just common sense, that's marriage is a man and a woman. And that's all the American people want. And it will be an issue in the election because the other side, for 10 years, has had a litigation strategy to force the redefinition of marriage on every state in the nation. Make no mistake about it. They're the ones who have created the constitutional problem and our federal marriage amendment, which we drafted, will give the American people a chance to solve that problem.
WHITFIELD: But Matt, didn't you just touch on the dispute -- or at the heart of the dispute -- is who defines marriage? And, it has to be acknowledged that there are gay couples in this country just as there are heterosexual couples in this country. So, you know, how should it be determined what is...
(CROSSTALK)
DANIELS: Right.
We agree that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. Most Americans are not interested in any way harming gay and lesbian couples. But they don't believe they have a right to redefine marriage for our entire society because this is about what sort of message the laws will send to our children and grandchildren.
And the polls are with us, Fredricka. This is not radical proposition. The president is speaking for a broad majority when he says we need to protect marriage as a man and woman from the courts and if we don't do it at the level of the Constitution, that won't happen.
This hasn't been created by the president; it wasn't created by the Alliance for Marriage. It was created by groups that have been litigating for 10 years to do an end run around democracy and public opinion. And now's the time to let the American people have the final say.
STACHELBERG: See, the problem is, Matt can't have it both ways. Matt can't say gay and lesbian couples and our families should be free to live as we choose and then go ahead and foster and support a constitutional amendment that would write discrimination into the United States Constitution, a sacred document that's been amended only 17 times since the Bill of Rights.
He can't have it both ways and foster that kind of discrimination.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Well, Winnie, I'm going to have to allow you to have the last word on that because we're now out of time.
Winnie Stachelberd (sic) of the Human Rights Campaign and Matt Daniels of the Alliance for Marriage, thanks very much both of you for joining us from Washington.
STACHELBERG: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
