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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Sources: Possible Attack Using Aircraft Against U.S.; Bush's Budget Going to be More Expensive Than Lawmakers Thought

Aired January 30, 2004 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DARYN KAGAN, HOST (voice-over): President Bush on the defensive. Is he spending too much?

The tense prison standoff continues. We'll go inside the mind of a hostage.

She survived an attack and put him behind bars, but this serial killer could soon walk free.

The verdict is in. What's the punishment for cannibalizing a human? You might be surprised.

Tonight, America antes up. Gambling addiction, it ruins lives. Could it happen to you?

And you won't want to miss our viewers guide to the Super Bowl.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.

KAGAN: Hello, and welcome to 360. I'm Darien Kagan. Anderson Cooper is off tonight.

We begin with the developing story at this hour. Sources tell CNN that New intelligence suggests a possible terrorist attack against the United States using an aircraft.

For the details, let's go live to Washington and our Kelli Arena -- Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Darien, government officials tell us that within the last 48 hours New intelligence has surfaced suggesting once again possible attacks against U.S. cities using aircraft from overseas locations. The two airlines that that the intelligence refers to include British Airways and Air France. The two cities that have come up in this new information include Los Angeles and Washington, D.C.

If you remember, Daryn, there was very similar information that came in right before the Christmas holiday, and that led to a raising of the national threat level to orange. There doesn't seem to be any decision heading in that direction at this time. Officials seem to be quite comfortable with just alerting the officials and areas involved that they have information about, and just containing that information and just spearheading it toward where they need to rather than doing an entire national raising of the threat level.

The information is not recycled information from a few weeks ago. This is very new intercepted information. It is believed to be credible.

It is believed to be specific. Although, Daryn, interestingly, officials are not as concerned this time around as they were heading into the Christmas holiday. The anxiety level is nowhere near where it was then. Now, maybe that's a factor of just having gone through this drill before and having the mechanism in place to deal with it, but they do believe the information is credible -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, just real quickly, Kelli, last time around we saw a lot of canceled flights. We also heard talk of putting armed marshals on these flights. Are they talking about that taking place?

ARENA: Haven't heard anything about flight cancellations. Air marshals are always an option, Daryn. And once again, I was told that British Air Flight 223, which came up in the intelligence last time around, will be closely looked at this time around as well. They do not have new intelligence regarding that flight, but because it came up as a possible target last time around, obviously they're going to cover all their bases.

One other thing leading to the higher level of concern, just a little bit, is the Super Bowl, Daryn. That is an event, as you know, that lots of people gather to. So security very much in place. And some concerns surrounding that. So until we get that over with, I think that everyone is going to be crossing their T's and dotting their I's in a big way.

KAGAN: All right. Kelli Arena, with the latest from Washington. Thank you for that.

We also have some breaking news from the White House as well. For that, we go to Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Daryn, it is a significant development. There has been a lot of discussion over whether or not there should be an independent commission to investigate the prewar intelligence on weapons of mass destruction. We heard that from former weapons inspector David Kay. We also heard from that from Senator John McCain.

There is a growing movement among those on the Hill toward this independent commission. Well, what we have gotten from congressional and administration sources, they tell us that the White House is looking at a range of options and that Vice President Dick Cheney today called key lawmakers to let them know that the administration is looking at a number of options that perhaps they would use to independently investigate this prewar intelligence. Now, they say that this is preliminary, there are no decisions that have been made on this manner. But, of course, this certainly indicates that the White House is more open than it had previously suggested or even publicly suggested for an independent probe to get to the bottom of this.

And very interestingly enough, President Bush that was asked today twice about this, whether or not he approved of an independent commission. He said he only wanted to get to the bottom of this, to get to the facts.

Now, on an unrelated matter, this is something that the White House was dealing with all day, was the whole idea about the budget and the Medicare reform bill. There is new numbers that are coming out that suggest it is going to be a lot more expensive than lawmakers had previously thought.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush insisted he can still cut the deficit in half over five years, despite news his Medicare overhaul has a much higher price tag than initially forecast. But it is up to Congress to help.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congress is now going to have to work with us to make sure that we set priorities and our fiscally wise with the taxpayers' money. I'm confident they can do that if they're willing to make tough choices.

MALVEAUX: But the Medicare Reform Bill passed the House by just five votes last November, and only after the White House convinced reluctant fiscally conservative Republicans that the 10-year plan would cost close to the $395 billion estimated by the Congressional Budget Office. Now the White House's Office of Management and Budget estimates it will cost nearly 30 percent more, as much as $540 billion. And conservatives aren't happy.

REP. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: Had everyone known it would be $534 billion, it may have caused a few other members of Congress to not get on board. And that would have been helpful, frankly, to those of us that didn't want to see it passed.

MALVEAUX: Press Secretary Scott McClellan insists the president did not mislead Congress.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are hundreds of assumptions that you make when you make those estimates. And obviously changes in one or two of those assumptions can significantly impact those estimates.

MALVEAUX: But Democrats question the size of the change.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: The problem is that they're off by over 35 percent in the first year. That's phenomenal. Even government doesn't make a mistake that big most of the time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Daryn, the White House is concerned that this may become a political liability. They are certainly hoping to push forward President Bush's domestic agenda, but they say it could jeopardize -- at least they fear it could jeopardize his agenda to keep those tax cuts permanent and also to move forward on some other issues -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Suzanne Malveaux with two big stories out of the White House. Thank you for that.

Now, of course we want to hear from you at home. Today's "Buzz" question is this: would you give up future tax cuts to bring down the deficit? Vote now, cnn.com/360. We'll have the results at the end of the show.

Meanwhile, let's move on to the Democrats, hitting the campaign trail with a another round of primary and caucuses coming up Tuesday. Today, John Kerry came under attack from a rival contender.

With that, let's check in with our Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In South Carolina, John Kerry sticks to his Iowa-New Hampshire play book, trying to court the state's more than 400,000 military men and women. But here, the decorated Vietnam veteran has to do something else, answer lingering questions after recently saying a Democrat could become president without winning the South.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I win the nomination, we will be actively campaigning in the South. And there are states I'm convinced we can win.

WALLACE: One of Kerry's opponents from the South, the other veteran in the race, tried Friday to stop the Massachusetts senator's momentum. Wesley Clark accused Kerry of not acknowledging in Thursday night's debate that he called affirmative action divisive back in 1992.

WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're in the not going to beat George Bush with old style fudge-it-up politics.

WALLACE: Kerry shot back, saying he has always supported affirmative action, accusing Clark of twisting his "mend it, don't end it position."

KERRY: I did what Jim Clyburn did and what Bill Clinton did, which is mend it. And Jim Clyburn wouldn't be supporting it if it were otherwise. So let's not have any politics here. Let's keep the truth.

WALLACE: No politics, says the front-runner, although every move right now is political. Kerry, touting the endorsement from South Carolina's most popular African-American lawmaker, Clark hitting Kerry on affirmative action, all in a state where African-Americans could make up to 50 percent of primary voters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And John Kerry is now in Delaware, stop number three of his seven-state tour before Tuesday. He was asked earlier about Howard Dean's comments that he could stay in this race until the Democratic Convention this summer, even if he's not winning a large number of states. Kerry said he was not concerned. He said, "Let's just see how things unfold" -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Kelly Wallace on the campaign trail in Delaware. Thank you for that.

Meanwhile, John Edwards is focusing his energy on South Carolina. Polls show that he has momentum there. Plus, he is talking tough, saying that he will be victorious.

The latest from CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next president of the United States, John Edwards!

(APPLAUSE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Edwards stumped across South Carolina as he fought to stay alive in the race for the nomination. The senator from North Carolina, born in South Carolina, told us he has to win here. But he left himself an out by refusing to accept the possibility of a loss.

(on camera): Do you have to win South Carolina to continue or not?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that I need to win South Carolina, and I will win it.

BUCKLEY: And if you don't win it, are you out?

EDWARDS: I won't accept that proposition. I'm going to win.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): A new insider advantage poll of likely Democratic voters in South Carolina shows Edwards leading John Kerry by seven points. But Edwards believes it is going to be a squeaker.

EDWARDS: I think it's going to be a very close dogfight here in South Carolina.

BUCKLEY: Edwards is appealing to South Carolinians as one of their own who understands the plight of a state that has seen more manufacturing jobs lost per capita since 2001 than any other state. But at a candidates forum, Edwards was asked how he as a wealthy trial attorney could empathize.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it reasonable to think that you can relate to those who are less fortunate, to those who don't have insurance or a roof over their heads?

(APPLAUSE)

EDWARDS: Yes, it is. The answer is, the life that I have lived is the dream that is being shut off for so many Americans every single day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And we're now back in Columbia, South Carolina, where Mr. Edwards is going to be appearing at a benefit concert by Hootie & the Blowfish. One other question that we were able to ask Senator Edwards today, and this about a popular notion that has been going around here in South Carolina that, wouldn't Senator Edwards be an attractive vice presidential candidate?

I asked him if he would be interested. He said he's absolutely not interested. I asked him if he would ruled that out. And he said yes -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Very interesting. We're going to be talking about potential Democratic vice presidential candidates later in the program. Frank Buckley in South Carolina, thank you for that.

We are following a number of developing stories right now "Cross Country."

To Washington, D.C.: terror suspect to meet lawyers. CNN learns that Yasser Hamdi will for the first time meet with his attorney next week. Hamdi, you might remember, is a U.S. citizen who was captured more than two years ago during the fighting in Afghanistan. The government has not filed charges against him.

Los Angeles, California: hung jury. No verdict in the second assault trial of former Inglewood police officer Jeremy Morse. The jury deadlocked six to six. Morse is charged with excessive force in the videotaped arrest of an African-American teenager.

Buckeye, Arizona: prison standoff day 13. Negotiators continue to talk with two prison inmates and the female guard that they're holding hostage. They won't elaborate on the discussions, but they say they'll go the distance to ensure the guard's safety. Later in the program, we'll talk with a former negotiator who has dealt with similar standoffs.

And Atlanta, Georgia: evolution battle. Former President Jimmy Carter says he is embarrassed by a proposal by Georgia school superintendents. It would remove the word "evolution" from some state school textbooks and replace it with the term "biological changes over time." Carter rarely criticizes an elected official, but he says Georgia would be ridiculed if the proposal goes through.

And that's a look at stories "Cross Country" tonight.

Were juvenile inmates drugged and abused in California? We'll take a closer look at these serious allegations. Plus, addicted to gambling. Hear from one man who was driven to desperate measures just to feed his habit. Part of our week-long series "Gambling Nation."

And a verdict in the cannibal case. He ate and killed a willing victim and videotaped the whole thing. So why will the man be walking the streets sooner than you might think? We'll go live to the courthouse.

But first, let's take a look "Inside the Box" at the top stories on tonight's network newscasts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: New report out tells of a horrifying tale of how some young inmates are treated in California's prisons. It says they're locked in cages or drugged as punishment, with mentally ill inmates denied proper therapy. State officials are not disputing the report's findings.

CNN's Rusty Dornin has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Punishment for aggressive behavior at California's youth correctional facility sometimes means being forced into a six by 12-foot cage. He asked to be identified only as "Michael," and as a teenager he served two years for burglary and says he was put in a cage for more than a week because he had some mental health issues the staff couldn't treat.

MICHAEL, FMR. INMATE: Well, basically the cage became my mental health care. I was in it 23 hours. I mean, anytime I was outside of my room I was in the cage. Sat in there, lived in there.

DORNIN: Michael is part of a class action lawsuit against the state for alleged abuses at the state's youth facilities. The recent independent state funded study prompted by that suit found that youth were put in cages or drugged inappropriately too often. Michael says he was given eight different drugs.

MICHAEL: I was receiving injections to offset the effects of medications. My jaw would lock up for hours at a time.

DORNIN: State corrections officials say they can't talk about Michael's case because of the lawsuit, but admit most problems outlined in the report are accurate and very disturbing. They blame the previous administration.

WALT ALLEN, DIRECTOR, YOUTH AND ADULT CORRECTIONS: We are definitely making efforts to develop plans to meet those -- meet those issues that have been raised by the experts.

DORNIN: And while the use of cages may seem shocking, officials claim sometimes it is necessary but should only be used for a very short period of time. TIP KENDEL, CALIFORNIA YOUTH CORRECTIONS: There are types of wards and/or inmates that can be extraordinarily violent to one another and to staff. So in certain circumstances, they would be placed in those cages.

DORNIN: The class action suit was filed by the nonprofit prison law office.

DON SPECTER, PRISON LAW OFFICE: Kids' lives are being ruined. Instead of mental health treatment, they're getting drugged. And cages instead of treatment and rehabilitation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And Rusty Dornin joins us tonight from San Francisco.

Rusty, besides the cages and the drugs, as if that weren't enough, were there other issues mentioned in the lawsuit?

DORNIN: There were several issues mentioned -- well, actually in that report, Daryn. It talks about inadequate staffing or poorly trained staff. It also called into question the competency of psychiatrists. They said that was a grave concern, and said in many cases the environment in these young prison facilities would make the mental conditions of these young inmates even worse. And, as a matter of fact, a week after this report came out, two teens at one facility committed suicide.

KAGAN: Very disturbing. Rusty Dornin in San Francisco. Thank you for that report.

We tonight are tracking a number of developing stories around the globe. Let's check the "UpLink."

Tehran: a poll reversal of sorts. Hard-liners have reinstated about a third of the liberal candidates in the country's upcoming elections. More than 3,600 candidates who supported government reforms had been barred from running for office. Still, the country's largest liberal party says the elections will still be a sham. A U.S. congressional team is heading to Tehran next month on a mission to improve relations with Iraq.

Bethlehem: Israel strikes back. One day after a suicide bomber killed 10 people on a Jerusalem bus, the Israeli army killed three Palestinians identified as terrorists. The troops also demolished the home of the suicide bomber.

To Mexico: a demonstration turns violent. Teachers from competing unions beat each other with sticks and rocks. The two groups had been at odds for decades. More than 50 teachers were hurt. Thirty police officers were on the scene but didn't intervene.

Taiwan: a whale of a mess. Check out these pictures. It is the decomposing remains of a 60-ton whale. It exploded on a busy street.

The whale was on a truck heading for an autopsy. The cars were covered with blood and guts, and traffic was stopped for hours.

And that is tonight's "UpLink."

A gambling addict hits rock bottom, then starts life over again. Find out how the thrill of the win drove one man to the brink as we wrap up our week-long "Gambling Nation."

Also tonight, held hostage for almost two weeks. And round-the- clock negotiations are going nowhere it appears. We'll take a look inside one of the nation's longest running prison standoffs.

And a little bit later, he killed and ate a man, and apparently has no apologies. A verdict in the volunteer cannibal case. Find out his advice for other would-be killers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Super Bowl Sunday, it's only a couple of days away. And as it approaches, millions of Americans are placing wagers big and small. For some, betting is fun and games. For others, though, it is a serious addiction.

Our David Mattingly reports on the battle against the habit for our series "Gambling Nation."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Possessing a certain talent for numbers, An Nguyen went to college in pursuit of a degree in mathematics. Two years later he dropped out, deeply in debt after losing $200,000 gambling.

AN NGUYEN, COMPULSIVE GAMBLER: Everyone gambles. I'd say 90 percent of all guys over 16 or 17.

MATTINGLY: Experts say college campus have become a breeding ground for problem gambling. It is a sports-charged environment, fueled by easy access to credit cards and Internet gaming sites.

VALERIE LORENZ, COMPULSIVE GAMBLING CENTER: It is a fatal combination. You're going to get more gamblers, and obviously you're going to then get more compulsive gamblers.

MATTINGLY (on camera): A Harvard study found that roughly a third of all college students placed bets on sporting events. That's a figure smaller than previously believed. Two to three percent of those gamblers go on to become addictive. But not all gambling problems begin in college.

Studies cite a national pro-gambling attitude promoting casinos and lotteries that sends a message to kids at a very young age. As a result, some gambling habits are starting as early as middle school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 85 percent of Americans gambled once. So we're role modeling gambling to our kids. MATTINGLY: Mike Osborne placed his first bet at age 13. By the time he was old enough to vote, he says he was in for $2,000 a week, with his habit hurting everyone around him.

MIKE OSBORNE, COMPULSIVE GAMBLER: You go to lying, cheating, stealing. You start with family, then you go to friends.

MATTINGLY: After a suicide attempt and doing time for embezzling, Mike is now in rehab and preparing for a stressful weekend. It will be the first Super Bowl he can remember on which he hasn't placed a bet.

David Mattingly, CNN, Baltimore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Let's get more now on Mike Osborne's story. He also sat down with Anderson to talk about his in-depth gambling addiction. Anderson started off by asking him how the addiction all started.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OSBORNE: It started with a few friends in seventh grade. We would gamble on Sega video games and playing basketball, shooting pool, that kind of stuff. And by the age of 15, I was betting sports every single night.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When did you realize that it was a problem for you? I mean, that you had an addiction to this?

OSBORNE: At the age 17, I realized I crossed the line. And it was ruling my life at that point in time.

Everything had evolved around the sports games on TV, the sporting schedule. I started -- my wager started to increase with the bookies. I started lying, cheating from family, stealing from family and friends to cover bookies' debts because I didn't want them coming to my home. And by the age 19, I couldn't run for from it anymore. And at that point, I actually had my first suicide attempt because I just wanted to get away from the gambling.

COOPER: I understand at one point you had kids -- I mean, at one point, you even unwrapped your kids' Christmas gifts to return them to get some more money for gambling?

OSBORNE: Yes, I did. I went down, I unwrapped everything and re-wrapped them with similar items around the house. I returned all the gifts and took the money to get back in action on my off shore account for sports betting.

COOPER: What is the feeling like? I mean, you place the money down on a game, you watch the game. Try to describe it if you can.

OSBORNE: It is an all-day adventure. You start 6:00 in the morning, when you run to the newsstand to pick up eight or nine newspapers, "USA Today," "The Post," everything. You start studying the games throughout the day.

You periodically do the work that you're supposed to be doing at your job. You come home about 6:00, you make an effort of putting together the numbers, who you think is on TV, who will be the big hit for the night. Quarter to 7:00, you start calling everything in. Seven o'clock, the East Coast games go off, and then by 10:30, the West Coast games are kicking on. It will take you till about 2:00 in the morning, and then you get back up and do it all again 6:00 the next morning.

COOPER: It sounds like a full-time job.

OSBORNE: It is, but it's also a full-time high.

COOPER: What is the deepest you were in debt at any one point?

OSBORNE: Overall, probably $500,000.

COOPER: In the sum total, have you come out ahead from gambling?

OSBORNE: I've definitely lost. I've had some big hits, though, some big wins. And from the gambler's mentality it is easy to remember the big wins and put the losses in the past. We don't seem to have a memory for our losses, just our wins.

COOPER: You've quit gambling now?

OSBORNE: I've been clean since November, yes.

COOPER: How did you go about trying to get clean?

OSBORNE: I was getting ready to attempt another suicide attempt. And I was able to get help. My wife found me help down here in Baltimore through a gambling center. They specialize in problem gambling treatment, and I checked myself in there.

I completed the program about two weeks ago. And it's just been -- it has been a life saver. It truly saved my life this time.

COOPER: And the treatment, what is it? You said you were in this program, you just got out two weeks ago. I mean, how do you go about trying to cure yourself?

OSBORNE: It's an everyday process. You know, I still can't admit to myself that I will never be able to gamble again. That is just something that I still haven't accepted in my head. So what I do, I go about every day saying that I just won't gamble today.

COOPER: The Super Bowl obviously is on Sunday. You're not going to watch, are you?

OSBORNE: No. It's going to be a hard weekend. This will be the first Super Bowl weekend that I can remember -- that I can ever remember that I wouldn't have some sort of action on the game. And not just the game. I think last year I had $5,000 on the coin toss before the game even went off. COOPER: You had $5,000 on the coin toss of the Super Bowl?

OSBORNE: Coin toss, heads or tails.

COOPER: You think you'll make it? I mean, you say you've been out two weeks, you still think one day you'll be able to maybe gamble again. That's your hope.

OSBORNE: It's not my hope. It's just hard for me to realize and to accept the fact maybe this thing has defeated me and that I won't be able to do it again. That's why I just take it one day at a time. And I hope and I pray that I will make it this time.

COOPER: Mike, I know this caused you a lot of pain for a long time. And it has taken a lot of courage to not only seek treatment, but to even talk about it on a program like this. And I appreciate that. Thanks for joining us.

OSBORNE: No problem. Thank you, Anderson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): Still no Democratic candidate for president. But VP speculation has already started.

A hostage held for 13 days and counting. What goes on in the mind of a captive?

And you won't want to miss our viewer's guide to the Super Bowl.

360 continues.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Here in the next half hour on 360, the run for the White House. Candidates battle it out for first place. But it is the No. 2 man who could make all the difference. Find out who might be on the list to be the next Democratic running mate.

Prison hostage standoff in Arizona. A female guard held for 13 days and counting. A closer look at what she needs to do to survive.

And a verdict in the cannibal trial. Find out how soon he'll be walking free. First, let's check the top stories in "The Reset."

To Washington, early disclosure. The Pentagon accidentally released next year's budget request today. The document was put on the Internet. It is usually a very closely held secret. So what is in it? Well, the peek shows the military wants just over $400 billion next year not counting the supplemental funds for Iraq. New weapons programs will actually get less money, but there is much more cash available for spare parts. Columbus, Ohio. Did the shooter phone in? Police say that a caller telephoned a local sheriff's office and claimed to be the Ohio highway freeway shooter. 20 shootings have occurred in last nine months. One woman died after being hit last November. The police say they're checking the call out.

Parkland, Florida, a race to save one man's life. Rescue workers struggled to drain a pit and release a construction worker trapped by a boulder. The man was in danger of drowning. He was trapped for several hours but just a short while ago, he was freed and taken to a local hospital for observation and that is tonight's "Reset."

With two wins under his belt Senator John Kerry is going into next Tuesday's contest with what you could call momentum. As the front-runner, it is inevitable that reporters and analysts turn to the question of whom Kerry might choose as his running mate if, of course, he gets the nomination. Joining us from Washington with their own little list, Julian Epstein, a Democratic strategist and Jay Carney, deputy bureau chief for "TIME" magazine in Washington. Gentlemen, good morning or -- always on the morning.

JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You do the morning show all the time.

KAGAN: Let me reset that. Good evening to both of you. Great to have you both here with us. Let's talk No. 2 and talk about Mr. Nice guy. John Edwards. He hasn't really been coming out nasty. Is that his way of saying, I'll be welcome anywhere? Jay Carney, let's start with you.

JAY CARNEY, DEPUTY BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: I think that may be part of it. John Edwards didn't run and hasn't run an optimistic campaign because he's gunning to be vice president. He's running that campaign because he thought it would be successful. And he's been proven right. To some degree his astonishing second-place finish in Iowa, I think, was largely due to the fact he was running the most optimistic campaign out there and a lot of voters found that appealing.

It does have the corral area effect, however of making him palatable to John Kerry if Kerry's the nominee as a potential running mate. There aren't a lot of comments you'll find on videotape where Edwards has bashed Kerry. That is sort of the first threshold you have to clear before you can select a nominee.

KAGAN: Let's spice this up a little bit. Julian, you take us inside the Democratic party. Let's do that one word that makes people go one way or the other, Hillary. Would Hillary Clinton accept a vice presidential invitation?

EPSTEIN: This is the issue that will never go away no matter how many times she says she's not interested. I think probably not. I think there is -- there are three boxes that Democrats are looking at when looking at a vice presidential candidate. The national security box, two is the southern box and three is the diversity box. Hillary Clinton would be great as a woman candidate. Dianne Feinstein, some people speak about. I think it is unlikely either will be chosen. If the Democrats go diversity, they're more likely to go to a Bill Richardson from New Mexico who has a lot of appealing qualities.

Beyond that, if you're looking at the national security box you look at Wesley Clark because this would give you the uber-national security credentials when you look at two decorated war heroes running against the Bush-Cheney ticket who is not -- doesn't have particularly impressive credentials in terms of what they were doing when their numbers came up.

KAGAN: Let's bring Jay back in here. I want to pick up on a name that Julian mentioned, Bill Richardson, I think VP and P are just about the only two jobs he hasn't held in Washington. He's been a cabinet secretary, an ambassador and now governor of New Mexico. What do you think? Does he have appeal to the Democrats?

CARNEY: I think he might top my list. Not that John Kerry is asking me. Because of both his experience, sort after across the array of politics, the fact he's a governor now which makes him something -- a different animal from John Kerry, if Kerry is the nominee, somebody who is not currently a member of Congress.

And, of course, he's hispanic which is -- would be a huge benefit for the Democratic ticket in states like New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, at least to force the Republican ticket to the spend some money in Texas. And in Florida. I think you'd have to look very seriously at Bill Richardson who also is an affable and appealing character as a candidate.

KAGAN: And so that takes care of the who and in the final seconds what about the when? Will we know who the selection is before the Democratic convention? Julian, you jump in here first.

EPSTEIN: Yes, you will. You may not know much before the Democratic convention. Traditionally, you'll know maybe a week or two before the convention. So it may be with the schedule frontloaded this year, that you'll hear about the candidate early, particularly if there is an attractive candidate. Edwards and Clark are both highly attractive. Democrats may want to get as much oomph as they can by selecting early.

KAGAN: Jay, what about the oomph factor?

CARNEY: I think you could see something like that. But you usually get a bounce out of your vice presidential pick and it would be nice to have that bounce heading into the convention. So my guess is they'll try to keep it secret right up until the convention. That's been the standard practice in the past. My guess is they'll keep to that.

KAGAN: Reporters like you and me, we'll be digging.

CARNEY: Yes.

KAGAN: So much for secrets. Gentlemen, good evening. Have a good morning. Save that until tomorrow. Julian Epstein and Jay Carney, appreciate your time.

It is now day 13 in the Arizona prison hostage crisis. A single female guard is still being held by two inmates in a guard tower. Negotiators spoke with her yesterday. There is no word on her condition today. So what happens to people who become hostages, what do they go through, how do they know what to deal with when it happens?

Joining us now, Dr. Tom Fagan, he is a psychology professor at Randolph Macon College in Virginia, a former chief crisis negotiator for the federal prison system. He joins me now from Washington. Dr. Fagan, thank you for being with us this evening. We appreciate it.

Day 13, not a good thing. Nobody wants to held hostage that long but are there any benefits for the fact that at least negotiations have gone on this long and at least the guard is still alive and relatively safe?

DR. TOM FAGAN, RANDOLPH MACON COLLEGE: Well, certainly the passage of time is -- it is a good thing in this situation. It has given everybody a chance to settle down, calm down a little bit. It has given the negotiators and the inmates a chance to talk, see what the issues are. So I think it is mostly a good thing. They've managed to release a hostage. They've managed to see the female hostage. These are all good signs, I believe.

KAGAN: They were originally two hostages held captive. They let the man go. They kept the woman. What do you make of that?

FAGAN: I actually make very little of that. They could release either hostage. The choice was certainly theirs to make. At this point, we don't know what the circumstances of either of those hostages were.

KAGAN: What you might know, though, is what kind of training prison guards get in this kind of situation.

FAGAN: Most guards are trained -- most correctional workers in general are trained in how to be, basically, a good hostage should the worst happen. And typically that training would include things like personalizing yourself to the inmates, not stressing them to a great extent, basically laying low, so to speak.

KAGAN: And finally what about the concern of what is known as a Stockholm Syndrome when the hostage starts taking on sympathies for the people keeping him or her captive. Is there a certain point at which this happens, something you can be trained not to fall captive to?

FAGAN: It is very variable among people. Some people are very susceptible and fall under the spell, if you will, of the Stockholm Syndrome quickly, others not at all. So, in this situation, it's just difficult to tell.

Certainly since they've been together for this many days, they certainly had a chance to get to know each other and certainly the correctional worker that's there has had plenty of opportunity to hear whatever the this inmate's issues are and to sympathize if she so chooses.

KAGAN: We'll find out perhaps once she is released. Hopefully that will be very soon.

Dr. Fagan, thank you for joining us from Washington. I appreciate it.

Totally different type of legal case to look at. A verdict in the cannibal trial. Will so the called human butcher walk or spend time behind bars?

Plus Super Bowl excitement, the big game is Sunday. The buzz from Houston just ahead.

And what are the new movies coming your way this weekend. We'll bring you up to speed with "The Weekender."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Now to a strange one, "Justice Served." Guilty of manslaughter is the verdict in the case of the German cannibal. A panel of judges sentenced Armin Meiwes to only 8 1/2 years in prison. Judges agreed that the victim was actually willing to be killed and eaten. CNN's Walter Rodgers explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The German cannibal admitted he was tense just before sentencing, admitted he hoped for leniency. Armin Meiwes acknowledged killing and eating a friend he met on the Internet. Prosecutors called it murder for sexual pleasure. The five judge panel disagreed. They called it manslaughter. The victim wanted to be mutilated, eaten and died.

The judge pronounced sentence, 8 1/2 years, adding civilized society viewed with repulsion cannibalism and ritual killing, Meiwes videotaped the show. He showed no emotions. Psychiatrists say he now feels complete having someone else inside him.

Meiwes's attorney called the sentence a victory saying his man may be free by 2008. The prosecutor, disappointed. He says it is still murder, under German law he can appeal and ask for a more severe sentence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RODGERS: But most Germans with whom we spoke said they thought the sentence was fair, although younger Germans tended to think 8 1/2 years was a bit harsh -- Daryn.

KAGAN: As if this story isn't strange enough, I understand that Mr. Meiwes actually has advice for those who might want to do what he did. RODGERS: Well, this is a character you couldn't invent. He's just too bizarre to create. Here's a guy who used to keep 40 pounds of human flesh in his freezer under the pizzas. He used to invite people over to barbecues. You have to wonder what he fed them.

Here is a guy who found the movie "Silence Of The Lambs" with Hannibal the Cannibal too offensive to watch. But when he solicited -- when he solicited people for slaughter on the Internet, he always insisted in writing that they had to give him proof that they weren't minors. He was fastidiously careful. You couldn't invent this guy.

KAGAN: Apparently not. And you set the table for a dinner here in the U.S. in a way that we couldn't imagine. Walter Rodgers in Germany, thank you for that.

And still to come this evening, if you value Dennis Rodman's advice about sex then you're not going to want to miss tonight's edition of "The Current."

Plus, countdown to the Super Bowl. You'll see how fans and the players are gearing up for the big game. A live report from Houston.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Hang on. Let's check on tonight's "Current." Dennis Rodman has a new job. He's endorsing an herbal sexual enhancement pill. Word has it the pill is strong enough for a man, but made for a woman who dresses like a man.

Heidi Fleiss tells the "New York Post" that actor Tom Sizemore, despite a restraining order, showed up at her house and ask her for money. Fleiss apparently explained, that's not how it work works.

Pixar Studios has broken off talks with Walt Disney as Pixar's distributor. Pixar has made such films as "Finding Nemo" and "Toy Story." The talks fell apart, apparently, because Disney didn't want to bother on counting all the money that it would make if it kept up with Pixar.

And that's tonight's "Current."

All right, question for you, what will you be doing on Sunday night? 137 million people, almost half the country, will watch at least 6 minutes of the Super Bowl, but that nearly 90 million people stick around to see even more of that. Those numbers aren't too surprising considering the hype of the NFL championship game. Josie Burke has been following it from her place and the place where it all happens, Houston, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From the dimple in his chin...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who am I dating? No one this week.

BURKE: To the hair on his. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm surprised other people don't have them really.

BURKE: The buildup to Super Bowl XXXVIII features the good, the ugly, and the bizarre.

The halftime entertainers talked about winning the game.

P. DIDDY, ENTERTAINER: Every time this ball is snapped, we're going to make somebody remember our name. You know? We're going to bring home that trophy.

BURKE: The football players talked about missing the commercials.

JULIUS PEPPERS, PANTHERS DEFENSIVE END: The commercials are funny. I TiVo it and watch them when I get home.

BURKE: And this guy just talked about talking.

BRENTSON BUCKNER, PANTHERS DEFENSIVE TACKLE: I can talk for days, man. They don't have enough media days to keep me from talking.

BURKE: After all the hype, several pressing questions still remain with two days to go before kickoff. Will the reliant stadium roof be open or closed? Who is the secret halftime guest? And, oh, yeah who is going to win?

KID ROCK, ENTERTAINER: For some reason that red, white and blue just kind of gets me on the Patriots. So I'm kind of swinging that way a little bit.

RON SMART, PANTHERS RUNNING BACK: We like coming in as the underdog. You know, don't believe in us. Hate on us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURKE: If you want to go to Sunday's game, face value on a ticket averages $500. But there aren't any of those to be had. So you'll have to find a scalper, and right now on the street, you'll have to pay more than $1,000 to gain admission. But this being the Super Bowl and all, that's probably not even the hottest ticket in Houston right now, because this weekend is all about the parties. That means tonight everyone trying to gain entrance to the very exclusive "Maxim" party -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Josie, I'm sure that's where we would have found you, but you stuck around to go live with us. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

BURKE: Yeah, I'm here to work. Thanks, Daryn.

KAGAN: Josie Burke in Houston, Texas. Well, there actually will be some actual football on the field in Houston on Sunday. But does anybody know who is playing in it? It is New England and Carolina, in case you're wondering. They don't exactly have a lot of superstars. But one of Houston's own superstars, sportscaster Chris Wragge of KPRC joins us with some insight on the Super Bowl. Chris, hello.

CHRIS WRAGGE, SPORTS DIRECTOR, KPRC, HOUSTON: Thank you for that introduction. Very kind of you.

KAGAN: Let's see if you got a scoop here. First of all, halftime, who is the big surprise?

WRAGGE: Well, rumor has it, it could be J.Lo.

KAGAN: Really?

WRAGGE: Yesterday during the entertainers press conference, someone stood up and said, can you confirm that Jennifer Lopez is the surprise guest? And P. Diddy, Kid Rock, they just kind of stood on the stage and they were like, oh, man that ain't right. So I kind of assume that the reporter was correct, and that was the actual halftime surprise. But they tried to cover their tracks. We haven't confirmed it yet, but that is the hot rumor in town.

KAGAN: All right, and clearly that was some old video we pulled out, the video we showed still had her with Ben. So that's yesterday's story.

WRAGGE: Yeah, don't even bring that up around here.

KAGAN: Don't even go there. What about the city of Houston? I mean, come on, is this kind of a sexy town? Where is the scandal? Where are the players getting caught with the prostitutes? Where are the players going AWOL? Where is the good stuff? What's the sexy stuff happening in Houston, Chris?

WRAGGE: You know what, I think that the deal is here, Daryn, is you have got two teams that are coached by two real straight shooters. Now, Carolina, they're not even staying anywhere near downtown. They're about 30 miles away. And the Pats, you know, under Belichick they know don't make any mistakes. Not to mention, there is not a whole lot of high profile guys that are going to go out and get in trouble.

Now, Houston has got its share of strip clubs, but I think the guys are staying away from that, because they know this is big. And you've heard some of the stories in the past. I mean, you know what happens to these guys. They go out, they get in trouble, and then, bam it is a huge headline. Like remember Atlanta, Eugene Robinson a couple of years ago, i mean, that totally deflated them against Denver. So nobody wants to get in that type of trouble. But there is plenty to do around here without getting into any real heat, trust me.

KAGAN: And for the record, those strip clubs in Houston, only because you read about them in the paper, but we don't have to go there.

WRAGGE: I have no idea where they are, but I've heard they are in the city limits somewhere. Not to mention, I think everybody is probably getting ready for like what Josie said before, the "Maxim" party, huge, huge event tonight, and then you've got the "Playboy" party, which is a huge event in itself.

KAGAN: Speaking of -- the last question about sex, a new survey says 57 percent of those polled say they're more likely to have sex after watching the Super Bowl. Anything you can add to that, Chris?

WRAGGE: I guess it depends on who you had the most money on.

KAGAN: There you go. Or who you were...

WRAGGE: If I won a whole lot of money, I'd probably be more in the mood than if I lost a boatload of money.

KAGAN: There you go. Or perhaps who you were watching the game with. There's always that.

WRAGGE: That too.

KAGAN: Chris, have a great time at the Super Bowl. Thanks for making time for us.

WRAGGE: Thank you, Daryn, good to see you.

KAGAN: Chris Wragge, KPRC.

Well, that's that. Now, you want to do something this weekend that does not involve football? We have "The Weekender" coming up with the newest movies and newest DVDs in your future. Stay with us for that.

And on Monday, Martha Stewart will be back in court. You'll get the latest on her legal fight.

But first, today's "Buzz." Would you give up future tax cuts to bring down the deficit? Vote now, cnn.com/360. The results when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Great thing about movies as you'll see in tonight's edition of "The Weekender," is that they not only entertain us, they can teach us as well. For instance, consider the lessons of "The Perfect Score."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, wow, what are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gracing (ph) the joint, right?

KAGAN (voice-over): Six kids decide that the SATs are too hard or too unfair, or something like that, so they decide to steal the test and cheat. With reasoning skills like that, they should be scared of the SATs.

If you like honest competition, there is "You Got Served".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You suckers got served.

KAGAN: Kind of like "West Side Story," but this time the Jets and Sharks dance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, maybe I'll end up a loser.

KAGAN: Or there is "The Big Bounce." Based on an Elmore Leonard novel from the '60s. Even his laundry list would be better than most Hollywood scripts.

BILL MURRAY, ACTOR: Am I drinking?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

MURRAY: As soon as I'm done.

KAGAN: On DVD, "Lost in Translation" isn't waiting for an Oscar bounce. And neither is "American Splendor." Hey, adapted screenplay counts.

Older stuff includes "The Gods Must Be Crazy," one and two. And yes, "The Thornbirds," at last.

If you're looking for a new take on older tunes -- Harry Connick sings the ballads old school on "Only You."

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Time now for "The Buzz." We asked you, would you give up future tax cuts to bring down the deficit? More than 18,000 people have voted. Sixty-six percent said yes; 34 percent of you said no. This is, of course, not a scientific poll, just your buzz.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Daryn Kagan in New York. Anderson Cooper returns on Monday. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

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