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American Morning
Discovery of Ricin in Mailroom of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist
Aired February 03, 2004 - 07:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The discovery of ricin in the mailroom of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has once again brought to the forefront the dangers of such toxins.
What exactly is ricin? How deadly is it?
Richard Preston is a bioterrorism expert.
He's also the author of the book "The Demon In the Freezer."
He joins us this morning.
Nice to see you.
Good morning.
RICHARD PRESTON, BIOTERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We have heard so far that the bulk of the tests that have been conducted thus far say it is ricin. A ninth test is being conducted this morning.
Frist say while it's toxic, it's not as contagious.
So give me a -- since you're an expert in this, across the scale, how deadly is ricin when compared to all the other substances out there?
PRESTON: Well, it's a poison. So it's not like anthrax, which is a living organism that can infect people. It is made from a plant, a natural plant that grows all around us called...
O'BRIEN: Castor bean.
PRESTON: The castor bean plant. It grows on roadsides...
O'BRIEN: You get castor oil from, right?
PRESTON: And castor oil is made from this same plant. Castor oil is an old remedy that moms used to give their kids to purge their stomachs.
O'BRIEN: I remember it well.
So what makes ricin deadly? I mean if it's coming from castor oil -- again, you give it to children to kind of clear out the G.I. tract...
PRESTON: That's the oil, which is perfectly harmless. But the seeds, which are beans, have a poison inside them which is a white, waxy substance called ricin. And it can be extracted from the plant in somebody's kitchen sink if they know what they're doing.
Ricin, the poison, has been favored, it seems, by homegrown American extremist groups that have a grudge against the U.S. government. It's not the kind of stuff that would apparently attract the likes of al Qaeda.
If it's made into a very fine powder, which takes a certain amount of sophistication -- and we don't know if this stuff is the powdered form of ricin -- then if it gets into the air, people can inhale it. And an exquisitely small quantity of ricin can poison a person in about 36 to 72 hours. So it's slow acting.
O'BRIEN: Does it have to be targeted or could you release it into a room, in a way, and...
PRESTON: In theory it could be and I think that may be why the Senate office building has been closed. There may be a concern. We don't know exactly what form this ricin is. It could be some absolutely crude stuff which is fundamentally not very dangerous to humans.
O'BRIEN: They irradiate the mail because they're trying to protect against anthrax attacks. But, of course, irradiation is not going to work on some kind of manufactured toxin, right, because it's not a living organism?
PRESTON: Right. And they also now, in the post office, for example, in Washington, they have sophisticated biosensors that can actually detect anthrax, but they can't detect ricin. If ricin gets into somebody, the death is absolutely gruesome.
O'BRIEN: Is it imminent? I mean if you, if you're poisoned by ricin, is that it, you're done within 36 hours?
PRESTON: Well, you bleed to death from the natural openings of the body. However, doctors can treat it with kind of supportive therapy. I don't feel that ricin is as serious a danger as anthrax because it fundamentally can't get into the air as easily as anthrax does. If it's sophisticated, maybe, but, you know, it's a kind of a natural poison.
O'BRIEN: So easier to access for people, but you have to be a little more sophisticated to spread it in any kind of worthwhile -- when you're talking from a terrorist's perspective -- worthwhile mass destruction kind of way. The CDC said this about ricin, "It infiltrates the cells. It prevents the cells from making proteins. The cells then die. Eventually death may occur."
How fast does death happen and what exactly is going on in the body when someone's being poisoned by ricin? PRESTON: Well, ricin is a very interesting compound. It's a highly potent enzyme and if a single molecule of ricin gets into an entire human cell, it'll kill the entire cell, one molecule. It causes the cell to rupture and burst. So if you've inhaled a little bit of it into your lungs and it begins to circulate in your bloodstream, then cells all through the body begin to burst, which is the reason why these hemorrhages occur.
O'BRIEN: So it can spread throughout your body, but you couldn't spread it to another person?
PRESTON: No, it does not spread as a contagious illness. It is a poison.
O'BRIEN: Richard Preston.
Scary stuff.
I guess we'll see if it turns out, of course, that what was found in Washington, D.C. is ricin and then the latest information we're getting out of Connecticut about a powdery substance at a mail center there. We will see what that ends up being, as well.
PRESTON: Scientists in the U.S. government at Fort Dietrich in Maryland have a rapid test for ricin which is like a pregnancy test kit. It's a little strip and they can take a sample of an unknown substance and if the strip turns purple...
O'BRIEN: It's ricin.
PRESTON: ... then they think it's ricin. So we should know quickly whether or not this substance in Connecticut is or is not ricin.
O'BRIEN: We will know.
Richard Preston, nice to have you.
Thanks so much.
Great clarification of this.
Appreciate it.
And, again, we're waiting for that news conference from Capitol Hill and when that happens we're going to bring that to you live.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Bill Frist>
Aired February 3, 2004 - 07:33 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The discovery of ricin in the mailroom of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has once again brought to the forefront the dangers of such toxins.
What exactly is ricin? How deadly is it?
Richard Preston is a bioterrorism expert.
He's also the author of the book "The Demon In the Freezer."
He joins us this morning.
Nice to see you.
Good morning.
RICHARD PRESTON, BIOTERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We have heard so far that the bulk of the tests that have been conducted thus far say it is ricin. A ninth test is being conducted this morning.
Frist say while it's toxic, it's not as contagious.
So give me a -- since you're an expert in this, across the scale, how deadly is ricin when compared to all the other substances out there?
PRESTON: Well, it's a poison. So it's not like anthrax, which is a living organism that can infect people. It is made from a plant, a natural plant that grows all around us called...
O'BRIEN: Castor bean.
PRESTON: The castor bean plant. It grows on roadsides...
O'BRIEN: You get castor oil from, right?
PRESTON: And castor oil is made from this same plant. Castor oil is an old remedy that moms used to give their kids to purge their stomachs.
O'BRIEN: I remember it well.
So what makes ricin deadly? I mean if it's coming from castor oil -- again, you give it to children to kind of clear out the G.I. tract...
PRESTON: That's the oil, which is perfectly harmless. But the seeds, which are beans, have a poison inside them which is a white, waxy substance called ricin. And it can be extracted from the plant in somebody's kitchen sink if they know what they're doing.
Ricin, the poison, has been favored, it seems, by homegrown American extremist groups that have a grudge against the U.S. government. It's not the kind of stuff that would apparently attract the likes of al Qaeda.
If it's made into a very fine powder, which takes a certain amount of sophistication -- and we don't know if this stuff is the powdered form of ricin -- then if it gets into the air, people can inhale it. And an exquisitely small quantity of ricin can poison a person in about 36 to 72 hours. So it's slow acting.
O'BRIEN: Does it have to be targeted or could you release it into a room, in a way, and...
PRESTON: In theory it could be and I think that may be why the Senate office building has been closed. There may be a concern. We don't know exactly what form this ricin is. It could be some absolutely crude stuff which is fundamentally not very dangerous to humans.
O'BRIEN: They irradiate the mail because they're trying to protect against anthrax attacks. But, of course, irradiation is not going to work on some kind of manufactured toxin, right, because it's not a living organism?
PRESTON: Right. And they also now, in the post office, for example, in Washington, they have sophisticated biosensors that can actually detect anthrax, but they can't detect ricin. If ricin gets into somebody, the death is absolutely gruesome.
O'BRIEN: Is it imminent? I mean if you, if you're poisoned by ricin, is that it, you're done within 36 hours?
PRESTON: Well, you bleed to death from the natural openings of the body. However, doctors can treat it with kind of supportive therapy. I don't feel that ricin is as serious a danger as anthrax because it fundamentally can't get into the air as easily as anthrax does. If it's sophisticated, maybe, but, you know, it's a kind of a natural poison.
O'BRIEN: So easier to access for people, but you have to be a little more sophisticated to spread it in any kind of worthwhile -- when you're talking from a terrorist's perspective -- worthwhile mass destruction kind of way. The CDC said this about ricin, "It infiltrates the cells. It prevents the cells from making proteins. The cells then die. Eventually death may occur."
How fast does death happen and what exactly is going on in the body when someone's being poisoned by ricin? PRESTON: Well, ricin is a very interesting compound. It's a highly potent enzyme and if a single molecule of ricin gets into an entire human cell, it'll kill the entire cell, one molecule. It causes the cell to rupture and burst. So if you've inhaled a little bit of it into your lungs and it begins to circulate in your bloodstream, then cells all through the body begin to burst, which is the reason why these hemorrhages occur.
O'BRIEN: So it can spread throughout your body, but you couldn't spread it to another person?
PRESTON: No, it does not spread as a contagious illness. It is a poison.
O'BRIEN: Richard Preston.
Scary stuff.
I guess we'll see if it turns out, of course, that what was found in Washington, D.C. is ricin and then the latest information we're getting out of Connecticut about a powdery substance at a mail center there. We will see what that ends up being, as well.
PRESTON: Scientists in the U.S. government at Fort Dietrich in Maryland have a rapid test for ricin which is like a pregnancy test kit. It's a little strip and they can take a sample of an unknown substance and if the strip turns purple...
O'BRIEN: It's ricin.
PRESTON: ... then they think it's ricin. So we should know quickly whether or not this substance in Connecticut is or is not ricin.
O'BRIEN: We will know.
Richard Preston, nice to have you.
Thanks so much.
Great clarification of this.
Appreciate it.
And, again, we're waiting for that news conference from Capitol Hill and when that happens we're going to bring that to you live.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Bill Frist>
