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American Morning

Interview with Senator Joseph Biden

Aired February 05, 2004 - 08:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Joe Biden of Delaware is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He's with us also live today from Washington.

Senator, welcome back.

Nice to have you here.

You have always talked about the credibility of the United States needing to be restored.

How is that done today in this speech by George Tenet?

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, I don't know how it's done by George today because I don't think George is the major problem. I think -- let me -- you, earlier on your network you had a clip of the president of the United States saying that Saddam Hussein is a gathering threat. Now, imagine if the president, just prior to going to war, went on your network and every other one and said, "My fellow Americans, I believe Saddam Hussein is a gathering threat, therefore we must attack."

No one would have supported it.

What this administration did at every level is take the absolute worst possible case scenario given to it by the CIA and any other intelligence agency and stated it as if it were fact, that there was no alternative. It was unbalanced and there was no immediate threat. I and others said it at the time, back last September and other times, and that's the part that angers me. That's why our credibility is in such disarray around the world.

HEMMER: You're pointing the finger at the White House.

Do I read that right?

BIDEN: I'm pointing the finger at the White House. I'm pointing the finger at the State Department. I'm pointing the finger particularly at the Defense Department, the vice president. They didn't say things that were outright lies, like that thing about the aluminum tubes, remember? It could have been used for artillery purposes or it could have been used for gas centrifuges for nuclear weapons. The truth of the matter is the community was split on it, most people thinking that it was for artillery tubes. It was stated, if you listened to people like Rumsfeld, as if there was no question. It was only for a gas centrifuge to build a nuclear system. That was the misleading aspect, in my view, of what we're going to find ultimately about how the intelligence was used.

HEMMER: You know about David Kay's testimony in D.C.

BIDEN: I do.

HEMMER: I want to play a clip of that. He's pointing the finger not at the White House, actually pointing to the intel community.

Listen to this then we'll talk about it afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KAY, FORMER U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: And let me take one of the explanations most commonly given. Analysts were pressured to reach conclusions that would fit the political agenda of one or another administration. I deeply think that is a wrong explanation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: He says it's wrong.

In your estimation, what's right, then?

BIDEN: I honestly don't know, Bill. But it is unusual for the vice president of the United States to go over and speak with analysts who aren't the top analysts at the CIA. I can't imagine that that doesn't send a message. But in truth, I don't know whether they were pressured. But it seems to me that's one issue.

The second issue is even if they weren't pressured, was the material given to the president and the vice president and the secretary of defense, was it characterized in a way that didn't give an honest reflection of what that intelligence report suggested? Did it emphasize only one part of the report? That is my assertion. That's what I think happened.

You may remember the famous encounter with the vice president on "Meet The Press" where he said that he had reconstituted his nuclear weapons, Saddam. I was on a sister show that same day. I said I've been given -- at the same time -- I said I've been given the same evidence, if they're telling me the truth. I'm supposed to have access to that same evidence as the vice president. And I saw no evidence, none, zero, presented by the CIA suggesting that he had reconstituted his nuclear capability.

It was possible he had. We could -- we don't -- we can't prove the negative. And so, but this administration put an edge on all of it to create this sense of urgency and immanency and immediate threat. Like weaponizing weapons. Remember they were saying that millions of people could be killed? Well, I have no doubt that he had the chemical material and biological material. But I had grave doubt, and said at the time -- I saw no evidence that he had "weaponized it."

You can have a whole big pile of, for example, anthrax. It's one thing to have it sitting in a pile and it's another thing to be able to disseminate it over thousands or hundreds or millions of people and do damage to them. They're two different things.

HEMMER: Senator, thank you.

BIDEN: And the implication throughout was they had this capacity and I never saw any evidence. I mean they don't have it, but I never saw any evidence presented by the intelligence community that they had that kind of capacity for mass destruction.

HEMMER: Donald Rumsfeld just yesterday saying not convinced the search is over.

Perhaps we'll get answers an hour and 20 minutes from now when George Tenet makes that speech.

Senator, thanks.

BIDEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Joseph Biden there in D.C.

Live coverage at 9:30 a.m. Eastern time. You'll get to see that speech live in its entirety from Georgetown University right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 5, 2004 - 08:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Joe Biden of Delaware is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He's with us also live today from Washington.

Senator, welcome back.

Nice to have you here.

You have always talked about the credibility of the United States needing to be restored.

How is that done today in this speech by George Tenet?

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, I don't know how it's done by George today because I don't think George is the major problem. I think -- let me -- you, earlier on your network you had a clip of the president of the United States saying that Saddam Hussein is a gathering threat. Now, imagine if the president, just prior to going to war, went on your network and every other one and said, "My fellow Americans, I believe Saddam Hussein is a gathering threat, therefore we must attack."

No one would have supported it.

What this administration did at every level is take the absolute worst possible case scenario given to it by the CIA and any other intelligence agency and stated it as if it were fact, that there was no alternative. It was unbalanced and there was no immediate threat. I and others said it at the time, back last September and other times, and that's the part that angers me. That's why our credibility is in such disarray around the world.

HEMMER: You're pointing the finger at the White House.

Do I read that right?

BIDEN: I'm pointing the finger at the White House. I'm pointing the finger at the State Department. I'm pointing the finger particularly at the Defense Department, the vice president. They didn't say things that were outright lies, like that thing about the aluminum tubes, remember? It could have been used for artillery purposes or it could have been used for gas centrifuges for nuclear weapons. The truth of the matter is the community was split on it, most people thinking that it was for artillery tubes. It was stated, if you listened to people like Rumsfeld, as if there was no question. It was only for a gas centrifuge to build a nuclear system. That was the misleading aspect, in my view, of what we're going to find ultimately about how the intelligence was used.

HEMMER: You know about David Kay's testimony in D.C.

BIDEN: I do.

HEMMER: I want to play a clip of that. He's pointing the finger not at the White House, actually pointing to the intel community.

Listen to this then we'll talk about it afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KAY, FORMER U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: And let me take one of the explanations most commonly given. Analysts were pressured to reach conclusions that would fit the political agenda of one or another administration. I deeply think that is a wrong explanation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: He says it's wrong.

In your estimation, what's right, then?

BIDEN: I honestly don't know, Bill. But it is unusual for the vice president of the United States to go over and speak with analysts who aren't the top analysts at the CIA. I can't imagine that that doesn't send a message. But in truth, I don't know whether they were pressured. But it seems to me that's one issue.

The second issue is even if they weren't pressured, was the material given to the president and the vice president and the secretary of defense, was it characterized in a way that didn't give an honest reflection of what that intelligence report suggested? Did it emphasize only one part of the report? That is my assertion. That's what I think happened.

You may remember the famous encounter with the vice president on "Meet The Press" where he said that he had reconstituted his nuclear weapons, Saddam. I was on a sister show that same day. I said I've been given -- at the same time -- I said I've been given the same evidence, if they're telling me the truth. I'm supposed to have access to that same evidence as the vice president. And I saw no evidence, none, zero, presented by the CIA suggesting that he had reconstituted his nuclear capability.

It was possible he had. We could -- we don't -- we can't prove the negative. And so, but this administration put an edge on all of it to create this sense of urgency and immanency and immediate threat. Like weaponizing weapons. Remember they were saying that millions of people could be killed? Well, I have no doubt that he had the chemical material and biological material. But I had grave doubt, and said at the time -- I saw no evidence that he had "weaponized it."

You can have a whole big pile of, for example, anthrax. It's one thing to have it sitting in a pile and it's another thing to be able to disseminate it over thousands or hundreds or millions of people and do damage to them. They're two different things.

HEMMER: Senator, thank you.

BIDEN: And the implication throughout was they had this capacity and I never saw any evidence. I mean they don't have it, but I never saw any evidence presented by the intelligence community that they had that kind of capacity for mass destruction.

HEMMER: Donald Rumsfeld just yesterday saying not convinced the search is over.

Perhaps we'll get answers an hour and 20 minutes from now when George Tenet makes that speech.

Senator, thanks.

BIDEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Joseph Biden there in D.C.

Live coverage at 9:30 a.m. Eastern time. You'll get to see that speech live in its entirety from Georgetown University right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com