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CNN Live At Daybreak
Armed Rebels Calling for Change in Haiti's Government
Aired February 17, 2004 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In scenes reminiscent of a decade ago, armed rebels are calling for a change in Haiti's government. Thousands of anti-government protesters took to the streets of Port- au-Prince. They were calling for the resignation of President Jean- Bertrand Aristide. Police still control the capital, but have fled other parts of the country as the violence spreads across the island nation. More than 50 people have been killed during fighting in and around Haiti's second largest cities. Rebels control the city where the anti-Aristide rebellion began almost two weeks ago.
CNN's David Ensor has more on Haiti's unrest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The rebel forces are growing in size, observers say, as exiled paramilitary troops return to Haiti to join the fighting. The rebels accuse security forces of indiscriminate shooting.
BUTER METAYAR, HAITI REBEL LEADER: We tried to get at the root of the power because he killed some people. And then right now he don't want to go.
ENSOR: The rebellion started 10 days ago, in tandem with large peaceful demonstrations against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, which continued over the weekend in Port-au-Prince. U.S. military intelligence officials are watching closely for their nightmare scenario, watching to see if desperate Haitians begin to build boats, as they have in the past, to make the dangerous journey to U.S. shores.
In the '90s, troops from the U.S. and other nations helped to ease out a military government and oversee elections in the Caribbean nation of about eight million people. After being ousted once before, Aristide, a former priest, was elected president again most recently in 2000. U.S. officials regard his government as a failure, but they do not want another coup d'etat.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We will accept no outcome that in any way legally attempts to remove the elected president of Haiti.
WILLIAM JONES, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO HAITI: We should certainly take the lead in forming a coalition and working through international organizations. But I do not think that the American taxpayer should be saddled with the bill for once again coming in and trying to solve the problem in Haiti. ENSOR: Some experts say the paramilitaries in Gonaives include drug profiteers who want chaos so they can increase drug shipments through Haiti.
HENRY CAREY, HAITI DEMOCRACY PROJECT: Something like 20 percent or more of cocaine transshipped from Columbia comes through Haiti to the United States.
ENSOR (on camera): U.S. officials are monitoring events closely, concerned about chaos, hunger and the boatloads of refugees that could emerge if the instability goes on for too much longer.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: That unrest in Haiti is also the leading topic in our international wrap this morning.
So let's welcome David Clinch to the set right now -- and, David, tell us, first of all, why Americans should care about what's happening in Haiti.
DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, that's a good question, whether they should care or not, meaning I don't know if that is a question we can answer. The question is that the United States government does care, or feels obliged to care or be involved, particularly when you look at the role of Colin Powell and former President Carter, very, very directly involved in getting Aristide back into the country 10 years ago and putting the government there in place.
You then have the principle, from the United States point of view, of their involvement and their support for a democratic government. Then you have, of course, the complication of the fact that they're very dissatisfied, and have made this publicly known, with the performance of that democratic government and Aristide himself. But clearly now they're caught between a rock and a hard place. They want Aristide to reform. They don't want a civil war. Neither, obviously at this point, and they're making this very clear -- Donald Rumsfeld said this the other day -- are they contemplating any military involvement.
COSTELLO: So what can the United States do?
CLINCH: Well, obviously for a start, the main problem in Haiti behind all of this violence is poverty, poverty, poverty, poverty -- one of the poorest, the poorest country in this hemisphere. That's something that you can't just snap your fingers and make it go away. So clearly the point for the time being is to put a cap on it.
From the United States point of view, they want all the help they can get from the United Nations and from other countries to keep peace there and then hopefully get Aristide to start reforming his government. COSTELLO: But will they get that help or will it come to the point again where the United States needs to send troops in a limited fashion and get them out of there quickly?
CLINCH: Well, I think...
COSTELLO: You know, sort of what happened with -- like what happened in Africa.
CLINCH: Right. And the key point there is refugees. The difference between Africa and Haiti is that it's so close, you can get on a boat and go to Florida. If you start seeing that happening or even them going to as far as Guantanamo Bay, that's when the United States government obviously has to start rethinking. So we're watching that.
We've been ahead of the curve on this story. We interviewed Aristide two weeks ago. We're there again in Haiti today. We'll be reporting from Haiti all day today.
COSTELLO: What else is on the agenda?
CLINCH: Well, on Iraq, just to point, to follow-up on a couple of things that we were talking about on Iraq earlier today with Jane Arraf and others, Paul Bremer, the chief administrator there, putting himself in the interesting situation yesterday, he was meeting with a group of women -- actually, this was a separate meeting -- but in meeting with a group of women in Iraq, saying he, Paul Bremer, the United States, has the final word on any constitution that the Iraqis form. And he's particularly talking about the role that Sharia law or Islamic law will play in any final constitution, the U.S. saying the Iraqis can form the constitution, but there are limits.
They're not going to accept any constitution that puts limits on the rights of women, for instance, in Iraq. A very thorny issue.
COSTELLO: Well, and the interesting thing is I just read an article about Afghanistan. And they have that in their constitution, right, the Islamic threat...
CLINCH: The Islamic law is in there.
COSTELLO: And this article, according to this article, women's roles in Afghanistan have largely not improved.
CLINCH: Right. We had women who represent -- the same women who were telling us about the fate of women in Afghanistan before the Taliban were ousted are telling us right now they do not see significant improvement right now under President Karzai in Afghanistan.
Clearly, that's going to be an issue in Iraq, as well.
COSTELLO: All right, David Clinch, many thanks.
We appreciate it. CLINCH: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 17, 2004 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In scenes reminiscent of a decade ago, armed rebels are calling for a change in Haiti's government. Thousands of anti-government protesters took to the streets of Port- au-Prince. They were calling for the resignation of President Jean- Bertrand Aristide. Police still control the capital, but have fled other parts of the country as the violence spreads across the island nation. More than 50 people have been killed during fighting in and around Haiti's second largest cities. Rebels control the city where the anti-Aristide rebellion began almost two weeks ago.
CNN's David Ensor has more on Haiti's unrest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The rebel forces are growing in size, observers say, as exiled paramilitary troops return to Haiti to join the fighting. The rebels accuse security forces of indiscriminate shooting.
BUTER METAYAR, HAITI REBEL LEADER: We tried to get at the root of the power because he killed some people. And then right now he don't want to go.
ENSOR: The rebellion started 10 days ago, in tandem with large peaceful demonstrations against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, which continued over the weekend in Port-au-Prince. U.S. military intelligence officials are watching closely for their nightmare scenario, watching to see if desperate Haitians begin to build boats, as they have in the past, to make the dangerous journey to U.S. shores.
In the '90s, troops from the U.S. and other nations helped to ease out a military government and oversee elections in the Caribbean nation of about eight million people. After being ousted once before, Aristide, a former priest, was elected president again most recently in 2000. U.S. officials regard his government as a failure, but they do not want another coup d'etat.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We will accept no outcome that in any way legally attempts to remove the elected president of Haiti.
WILLIAM JONES, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO HAITI: We should certainly take the lead in forming a coalition and working through international organizations. But I do not think that the American taxpayer should be saddled with the bill for once again coming in and trying to solve the problem in Haiti. ENSOR: Some experts say the paramilitaries in Gonaives include drug profiteers who want chaos so they can increase drug shipments through Haiti.
HENRY CAREY, HAITI DEMOCRACY PROJECT: Something like 20 percent or more of cocaine transshipped from Columbia comes through Haiti to the United States.
ENSOR (on camera): U.S. officials are monitoring events closely, concerned about chaos, hunger and the boatloads of refugees that could emerge if the instability goes on for too much longer.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: That unrest in Haiti is also the leading topic in our international wrap this morning.
So let's welcome David Clinch to the set right now -- and, David, tell us, first of all, why Americans should care about what's happening in Haiti.
DAVID CLINCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, that's a good question, whether they should care or not, meaning I don't know if that is a question we can answer. The question is that the United States government does care, or feels obliged to care or be involved, particularly when you look at the role of Colin Powell and former President Carter, very, very directly involved in getting Aristide back into the country 10 years ago and putting the government there in place.
You then have the principle, from the United States point of view, of their involvement and their support for a democratic government. Then you have, of course, the complication of the fact that they're very dissatisfied, and have made this publicly known, with the performance of that democratic government and Aristide himself. But clearly now they're caught between a rock and a hard place. They want Aristide to reform. They don't want a civil war. Neither, obviously at this point, and they're making this very clear -- Donald Rumsfeld said this the other day -- are they contemplating any military involvement.
COSTELLO: So what can the United States do?
CLINCH: Well, obviously for a start, the main problem in Haiti behind all of this violence is poverty, poverty, poverty, poverty -- one of the poorest, the poorest country in this hemisphere. That's something that you can't just snap your fingers and make it go away. So clearly the point for the time being is to put a cap on it.
From the United States point of view, they want all the help they can get from the United Nations and from other countries to keep peace there and then hopefully get Aristide to start reforming his government. COSTELLO: But will they get that help or will it come to the point again where the United States needs to send troops in a limited fashion and get them out of there quickly?
CLINCH: Well, I think...
COSTELLO: You know, sort of what happened with -- like what happened in Africa.
CLINCH: Right. And the key point there is refugees. The difference between Africa and Haiti is that it's so close, you can get on a boat and go to Florida. If you start seeing that happening or even them going to as far as Guantanamo Bay, that's when the United States government obviously has to start rethinking. So we're watching that.
We've been ahead of the curve on this story. We interviewed Aristide two weeks ago. We're there again in Haiti today. We'll be reporting from Haiti all day today.
COSTELLO: What else is on the agenda?
CLINCH: Well, on Iraq, just to point, to follow-up on a couple of things that we were talking about on Iraq earlier today with Jane Arraf and others, Paul Bremer, the chief administrator there, putting himself in the interesting situation yesterday, he was meeting with a group of women -- actually, this was a separate meeting -- but in meeting with a group of women in Iraq, saying he, Paul Bremer, the United States, has the final word on any constitution that the Iraqis form. And he's particularly talking about the role that Sharia law or Islamic law will play in any final constitution, the U.S. saying the Iraqis can form the constitution, but there are limits.
They're not going to accept any constitution that puts limits on the rights of women, for instance, in Iraq. A very thorny issue.
COSTELLO: Well, and the interesting thing is I just read an article about Afghanistan. And they have that in their constitution, right, the Islamic threat...
CLINCH: The Islamic law is in there.
COSTELLO: And this article, according to this article, women's roles in Afghanistan have largely not improved.
CLINCH: Right. We had women who represent -- the same women who were telling us about the fate of women in Afghanistan before the Taliban were ousted are telling us right now they do not see significant improvement right now under President Karzai in Afghanistan.
Clearly, that's going to be an issue in Iraq, as well.
COSTELLO: All right, David Clinch, many thanks.
We appreciate it. CLINCH: OK.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
