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CNN Live Saturday
Gun Liability Legislation Passed In House
Aired February 21, 2004 - 12:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Controversial gun liability legislation is expected to come to a vote in the Senate next week. The House has already passed it. Critics say it would give blanket immunity from lawsuits to gun makers and gun shop owners. But, those behind the bill, chiefly the National Rifle Association, say it would only stop frivolous lawsuits. We have guests on both sides of this debate to talk about the legislation. First, former Georgia congressman and NRA board member, Bob Barr. He's here in Atlanta joining us.
Good to see you Congressman.
BOB BARR, NRA BOARD MEMBER: Always a pleasure to be here.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, first off, explain what this bill is intended to do.
BARR: This bill basically puts lawful firearms manufacturers and retailers of lawful firearms back on a level playing field with all other manufacturers and retailers in America. It would no longer allow gun manufacturers and gun retailers to be singled out for a higher standard of liability than anybody else. So, it basically re- levels the playing field for gun manufacturers and gun retailers.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, just yesterday, Sarah Brady had this response about the proposed bill. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH BRADY, CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: I'm not an attorney, and many times this type of talk confuses me. But, I am the wife of a victim. And I know what it's like to live your life having been victimized and your whole life changed dramatically by gunfire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So, Congressman, your response to her. She is saying that the gun dealers and manufacturers should be held as culpable as those who are actually shooting.
BARR: Well, everybody in society wants to blame everybody else rather than themselves or rather than the real criminals, and that's part of what we're seeing, here. But, the fact of the matter is that this legislation is very narrowly crafted. It does not, for example, despite what Miss Brady and Lloyd Cutler, their lawyer, and others say, it does not remove liability from a firearms manufacturer or a firearms retailer that is negligent in their -- in their -- in their business or which has violated the law. So, for example, if you can show that a firearms retailer was negligent in giving a firearm to somebody that they should have known was going to commit a crime, they still would be liable. This does not remove that legitimate liability.
WHITFIELD: But, does this still apply to those who are illegally selling or providing arms to people who perhaps would not be eligible to purchase firearms?
BARR: Absolutely not. The gun retailer, or the gun manufacturer, that gives a gun or sells a gun to somebody who is not authorized to receive it -- that is, somebody that has a criminal record, that is too young, that has been judged mentally incompetent, if they give a gun to that sort of person, then they are and should remain liable.
WHITFIELD: All right, Congressman Bob Barr, thanks so much for joining us.
BARR: Sure.
WHITFIELD: Now, let's get the flipside of the argument. Dennis Henigan is with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which apposes the bill, as you heard from the Sarah Brady. He joins us now from Washington.
All right, now your response to the congressman who says that this bill levels the playing field so that no gun manufacturer or dealer would be singled out.
DENNIS HENIGAN, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: Well, what Bob Barr said is very typical of the way in which this bill is being deceptively sold to the United States Congress. He is absolutely wrong, this bill actually gives the gun industry a special exemption from the oldest principle of our liability law, which is when people or businesses act negligently, when they act irresponsibly, they should be accountable to the victims of their conduct. This bill exempts...
WHITFIELD: But, didn't we just hear the congressman's argument that it would be the -- it is not up to the manufacturer for the gun dealer to enforce or police how a purchaser of a firearm is to use that weapon?
HENIGAN: But it is the responsibility of the gun manufacturer and gun dealer to act responsibly. Let me give you an example. The gun that was used by the D.C. snipers to terrorize this community and to kill 13 innocent people came from a gun shop in Washington State known as Bull's Eye Shooters Supply. When they traced that gun back to Bull's Eye after taking it from the snipers, they found that Bull's Eye, even though it had the gun in its inventory at one time, had no record that the gun was sold, no record of a background check, had not reported that gun missing or stolen, couldn't account for the gun at all. It turns out that Bull's Eye couldn't account for over 200 other mysteriously missing guns.
WHITFIELD: So in a case like that, you're saying that any other gun dealer, such as that one, who would be negligent of its inventory, would be equally responsible if any firearms that were stolen from their premises were in the hands of someone who is carrying out a criminal act?
HENIGAN: And we're not saying that you don't punish the criminal. The criminal justice system was allowed to work with respect to those snipers, they were both convicted of their crimes. We're saying let the civil justice system work with respect to Bull's Eye. This is a classic case of negligence by a gun dealer that did not violate the law, but it was negligence that enabled these two snipers, who were ineligible to buy a gun by walking into a gunshot, they couldn't have gotten it any other way, but for a gun dealer's negligence, to commit those murders.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HENIGAN: This is a case in which Mr. Malvo said that he shoplifted a three foot long assault rifle from that gun shop. That's incredible. Where were the security mirrors? Where was the metal detector? Where -- were these people asleep in that gun shop that they would allow a juvenile to walk out of that gun store? This is precisely the kind of case that a court has held is meritorious, should go to trial. This legislation would stop it in its tracks. Why would we want to deprive these innocent victims of their legal rights? That was what Sarah Brady was saying. This makes absolutely no sense, at all.
WHITFIELD: Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Thanks very much for joining us from Washington. And, later on in the week -- next week, the Senate votes on this matter.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 21, 2004 - 12:19 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Controversial gun liability legislation is expected to come to a vote in the Senate next week. The House has already passed it. Critics say it would give blanket immunity from lawsuits to gun makers and gun shop owners. But, those behind the bill, chiefly the National Rifle Association, say it would only stop frivolous lawsuits. We have guests on both sides of this debate to talk about the legislation. First, former Georgia congressman and NRA board member, Bob Barr. He's here in Atlanta joining us.
Good to see you Congressman.
BOB BARR, NRA BOARD MEMBER: Always a pleasure to be here.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, first off, explain what this bill is intended to do.
BARR: This bill basically puts lawful firearms manufacturers and retailers of lawful firearms back on a level playing field with all other manufacturers and retailers in America. It would no longer allow gun manufacturers and gun retailers to be singled out for a higher standard of liability than anybody else. So, it basically re- levels the playing field for gun manufacturers and gun retailers.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, just yesterday, Sarah Brady had this response about the proposed bill. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH BRADY, CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: I'm not an attorney, and many times this type of talk confuses me. But, I am the wife of a victim. And I know what it's like to live your life having been victimized and your whole life changed dramatically by gunfire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: So, Congressman, your response to her. She is saying that the gun dealers and manufacturers should be held as culpable as those who are actually shooting.
BARR: Well, everybody in society wants to blame everybody else rather than themselves or rather than the real criminals, and that's part of what we're seeing, here. But, the fact of the matter is that this legislation is very narrowly crafted. It does not, for example, despite what Miss Brady and Lloyd Cutler, their lawyer, and others say, it does not remove liability from a firearms manufacturer or a firearms retailer that is negligent in their -- in their -- in their business or which has violated the law. So, for example, if you can show that a firearms retailer was negligent in giving a firearm to somebody that they should have known was going to commit a crime, they still would be liable. This does not remove that legitimate liability.
WHITFIELD: But, does this still apply to those who are illegally selling or providing arms to people who perhaps would not be eligible to purchase firearms?
BARR: Absolutely not. The gun retailer, or the gun manufacturer, that gives a gun or sells a gun to somebody who is not authorized to receive it -- that is, somebody that has a criminal record, that is too young, that has been judged mentally incompetent, if they give a gun to that sort of person, then they are and should remain liable.
WHITFIELD: All right, Congressman Bob Barr, thanks so much for joining us.
BARR: Sure.
WHITFIELD: Now, let's get the flipside of the argument. Dennis Henigan is with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which apposes the bill, as you heard from the Sarah Brady. He joins us now from Washington.
All right, now your response to the congressman who says that this bill levels the playing field so that no gun manufacturer or dealer would be singled out.
DENNIS HENIGAN, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: Well, what Bob Barr said is very typical of the way in which this bill is being deceptively sold to the United States Congress. He is absolutely wrong, this bill actually gives the gun industry a special exemption from the oldest principle of our liability law, which is when people or businesses act negligently, when they act irresponsibly, they should be accountable to the victims of their conduct. This bill exempts...
WHITFIELD: But, didn't we just hear the congressman's argument that it would be the -- it is not up to the manufacturer for the gun dealer to enforce or police how a purchaser of a firearm is to use that weapon?
HENIGAN: But it is the responsibility of the gun manufacturer and gun dealer to act responsibly. Let me give you an example. The gun that was used by the D.C. snipers to terrorize this community and to kill 13 innocent people came from a gun shop in Washington State known as Bull's Eye Shooters Supply. When they traced that gun back to Bull's Eye after taking it from the snipers, they found that Bull's Eye, even though it had the gun in its inventory at one time, had no record that the gun was sold, no record of a background check, had not reported that gun missing or stolen, couldn't account for the gun at all. It turns out that Bull's Eye couldn't account for over 200 other mysteriously missing guns.
WHITFIELD: So in a case like that, you're saying that any other gun dealer, such as that one, who would be negligent of its inventory, would be equally responsible if any firearms that were stolen from their premises were in the hands of someone who is carrying out a criminal act?
HENIGAN: And we're not saying that you don't punish the criminal. The criminal justice system was allowed to work with respect to those snipers, they were both convicted of their crimes. We're saying let the civil justice system work with respect to Bull's Eye. This is a classic case of negligence by a gun dealer that did not violate the law, but it was negligence that enabled these two snipers, who were ineligible to buy a gun by walking into a gunshot, they couldn't have gotten it any other way, but for a gun dealer's negligence, to commit those murders.
WHITFIELD: All right.
HENIGAN: This is a case in which Mr. Malvo said that he shoplifted a three foot long assault rifle from that gun shop. That's incredible. Where were the security mirrors? Where was the metal detector? Where -- were these people asleep in that gun shop that they would allow a juvenile to walk out of that gun store? This is precisely the kind of case that a court has held is meritorious, should go to trial. This legislation would stop it in its tracks. Why would we want to deprive these innocent victims of their legal rights? That was what Sarah Brady was saying. This makes absolutely no sense, at all.
WHITFIELD: Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. Thanks very much for joining us from Washington. And, later on in the week -- next week, the Senate votes on this matter.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
