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American Morning
Interview With David Gergen
Aired February 24, 2004 - 08:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a Tuesday in this political season and that means that there are some presidential contests today. Democratic officials say they expect heavy turnouts in today's Utah primary, as well as for caucuses in Idaho. Caucuses are also being held today in Hawaii. All told, 61 convention delegates are at stake.
So far, John Kerry has won 695 delegates compared to his main rival, John Edwards, who's got 200. 2,162 delegates are needed to win the nomination.
Both John Kerry and John Edwards are looking ahead to the contests a week from today on Super Tuesday. And they're focusing their attacks on President Bush instead of each other.
Kerry, who campaigns today in Ohio, fired a preemptive strike yesterday ahead of a political speech that Mr. Bush delivered last night to Republican governors. Kerry predicted that the president would "lay out what he calls a vision."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think George Bush is on the run and I think he's on the run because he doesn't have a record to run on. The real record is a record of job loss, of deficits, of broken promises not to dig into the deficit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Senator Edwards also criticized the president's shift to the political offensive. He accused the Republicans of wanting to exploit fear and "relitigate the past."
So, what was the president trying to accomplish in his speech last night?
With us to consider that is former White House adviser David Gergen, now editor-at-large at "U.S. News and World Report."
And he joins us from Cambridge, Massachusetts this morning.
Nice to see you, David.
Thanks for being with us.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Good to see you, Soledad. O'BRIEN: Overall, rate the speech last night. It seemed like it was sort of President Bush as the candidate speech, the first one that we've heard.
Do you agree with that? And how do you think he did?
GERGEN: Well, I think he got -- he's better now. He's getting some of the rust off. He certainly came out swinging last night. He took the gloves off and came right out and started punching. Ordinarily, you don't like to do that this early in the campaign. You like to stay in the Rose Garden, stay above the political fray so that you don't get quite as bloodied up yourself. It makes it too long a campaign.
But given the circumstances, that the Democrats are doing better than expected, the president has been drooping in the polls, he had to go on the offensive.
I thought he scored one very solid punch, and that's when he went after John Kerry and the rest of the Democrats for not putting forward a strong, clear sense of what they would do in Iraq, what they would do overall in foreign policy that would be different from his and, indeed, what they'd do here at home.
But what would they do in Iraq? Now that the war is over, we've all -- they've been very critical of how we got here. But what would they do different from what the president has done? I thought he was, I thought he might have scored a punch. I think many people are beginning to understand that the Democrats do, especially John Kerry, needs to come forward with that.
O'BRIEN: And certainly it seems that that was part of a theme of leadership and the leadership that President Bush says that he provides to this country.
I want to quick listen to just a brief chunk of his speech from last night.
GERGEN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The last three years have brought serious challenges. We've given serious answers and the strong leadership these times of extraordinary change demand. It's the president's job to seize opportunities and not let them slip away. The president needs to step up and make the hard decisions and keep his commitments. And that is how I will continue to lead our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: There's an underlying message there of boy, don't you want to stay with what you know than rather what you don't know.
How important, how pointed is that message, do you think, to voters? GERGEN: It can be very important, especially during a time of war. It's, the president who argues stick with me, we're in the middle, we're in the middle of the stream, don't change horses right here and now, has often been an appealing argument to voters in the past. Certainly Franklin Roosevelt was able to use that in 1944 very, very well. This is a more controversial war.
But I thought the president's tone was more serious there. I do think, Soledad, that the effect of the president's speech was undercut last night by something else said to the group of governors in private by his secretary of education, who called the National Education Association a terrorist organization.
O'BRIEN: He was referring, of course, to some of their tactics. And, of course, they disagree on the issue of the no child left behind, things like that. But...
GERGEN: In the middle of a war against terrorism, for the secretary of the Department of Education of the United States to call the largest teachers' union in the country a terrorist organization is not just ill considered, it's insulting and incendiary.
O'BRIEN: He apologized and he said, essentially, I'm paraphrasing here, as a black man who's been on the receiving ends of insensitive comments, I should have known better than that.
Do you think his apology went far enough? And what do you think President Bush should do in response? Some people want him to come out and condemn what Rod Paige said.
GERGEN: The White House and the president needs to clearly separate out himself from what the secretary said. These are -- at a time when education is also so important to the future of the country, we need to have a united front. And Rod Paige, who has served well as secretary, and he's been a mild mannered man. To say this was stunning, I think the president needs to -- I think the president needs to issue an apology and separate out. I've seen cabinet officers in the past, frankly, walk the plank for something like this.
O'BRIEN: Resign.
GERGEN: I have seen -- that's happened in the past. I'm not sure of that point, but I think the White House clearly needs to come to grips with this and make it very clear while it has differences with the NEA -- and certainly it's easy to see why it would have differences -- but it cannot live with this kind of statement about the largest teachers' union at a time when we're in a war on terrorism.
O'BRIEN: Do you...
GERGEN: To call it a terrorist organization is unbelievable. It's just stunning.
O'BRIEN: Do you think Democrats pick up on that and somehow leverage that issue? Or do you think it's one of those issues that's so incendiary, to use your word, everybody backs off?
GERGEN: No. I think the Democrats do pick up on it. You don't let things like that slide. It was said in a private meeting.
The question becomes is it -- obviously the words were ill chosen. The question becomes does it reveal something deeper about the administration's view about teachers and the teachers' union? If that's the case, we have a serious, serious problem in the country about educational reform, which is so critical to the quality of public education.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly theyll be some kind of response from somebody, we've got to imagine, in the next couple of hours, in the next several hours.
GERGEN: OK.
O'BRIEN: David Gergen joining us this morning.
Nice to see you, as always.
GERGEN: Good to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, as always, for your insight.
We appreciate it.
GERGEN: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 24, 2004 - 08:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's a Tuesday in this political season and that means that there are some presidential contests today. Democratic officials say they expect heavy turnouts in today's Utah primary, as well as for caucuses in Idaho. Caucuses are also being held today in Hawaii. All told, 61 convention delegates are at stake.
So far, John Kerry has won 695 delegates compared to his main rival, John Edwards, who's got 200. 2,162 delegates are needed to win the nomination.
Both John Kerry and John Edwards are looking ahead to the contests a week from today on Super Tuesday. And they're focusing their attacks on President Bush instead of each other.
Kerry, who campaigns today in Ohio, fired a preemptive strike yesterday ahead of a political speech that Mr. Bush delivered last night to Republican governors. Kerry predicted that the president would "lay out what he calls a vision."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think George Bush is on the run and I think he's on the run because he doesn't have a record to run on. The real record is a record of job loss, of deficits, of broken promises not to dig into the deficit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Senator Edwards also criticized the president's shift to the political offensive. He accused the Republicans of wanting to exploit fear and "relitigate the past."
So, what was the president trying to accomplish in his speech last night?
With us to consider that is former White House adviser David Gergen, now editor-at-large at "U.S. News and World Report."
And he joins us from Cambridge, Massachusetts this morning.
Nice to see you, David.
Thanks for being with us.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Good to see you, Soledad. O'BRIEN: Overall, rate the speech last night. It seemed like it was sort of President Bush as the candidate speech, the first one that we've heard.
Do you agree with that? And how do you think he did?
GERGEN: Well, I think he got -- he's better now. He's getting some of the rust off. He certainly came out swinging last night. He took the gloves off and came right out and started punching. Ordinarily, you don't like to do that this early in the campaign. You like to stay in the Rose Garden, stay above the political fray so that you don't get quite as bloodied up yourself. It makes it too long a campaign.
But given the circumstances, that the Democrats are doing better than expected, the president has been drooping in the polls, he had to go on the offensive.
I thought he scored one very solid punch, and that's when he went after John Kerry and the rest of the Democrats for not putting forward a strong, clear sense of what they would do in Iraq, what they would do overall in foreign policy that would be different from his and, indeed, what they'd do here at home.
But what would they do in Iraq? Now that the war is over, we've all -- they've been very critical of how we got here. But what would they do different from what the president has done? I thought he was, I thought he might have scored a punch. I think many people are beginning to understand that the Democrats do, especially John Kerry, needs to come forward with that.
O'BRIEN: And certainly it seems that that was part of a theme of leadership and the leadership that President Bush says that he provides to this country.
I want to quick listen to just a brief chunk of his speech from last night.
GERGEN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The last three years have brought serious challenges. We've given serious answers and the strong leadership these times of extraordinary change demand. It's the president's job to seize opportunities and not let them slip away. The president needs to step up and make the hard decisions and keep his commitments. And that is how I will continue to lead our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: There's an underlying message there of boy, don't you want to stay with what you know than rather what you don't know.
How important, how pointed is that message, do you think, to voters? GERGEN: It can be very important, especially during a time of war. It's, the president who argues stick with me, we're in the middle, we're in the middle of the stream, don't change horses right here and now, has often been an appealing argument to voters in the past. Certainly Franklin Roosevelt was able to use that in 1944 very, very well. This is a more controversial war.
But I thought the president's tone was more serious there. I do think, Soledad, that the effect of the president's speech was undercut last night by something else said to the group of governors in private by his secretary of education, who called the National Education Association a terrorist organization.
O'BRIEN: He was referring, of course, to some of their tactics. And, of course, they disagree on the issue of the no child left behind, things like that. But...
GERGEN: In the middle of a war against terrorism, for the secretary of the Department of Education of the United States to call the largest teachers' union in the country a terrorist organization is not just ill considered, it's insulting and incendiary.
O'BRIEN: He apologized and he said, essentially, I'm paraphrasing here, as a black man who's been on the receiving ends of insensitive comments, I should have known better than that.
Do you think his apology went far enough? And what do you think President Bush should do in response? Some people want him to come out and condemn what Rod Paige said.
GERGEN: The White House and the president needs to clearly separate out himself from what the secretary said. These are -- at a time when education is also so important to the future of the country, we need to have a united front. And Rod Paige, who has served well as secretary, and he's been a mild mannered man. To say this was stunning, I think the president needs to -- I think the president needs to issue an apology and separate out. I've seen cabinet officers in the past, frankly, walk the plank for something like this.
O'BRIEN: Resign.
GERGEN: I have seen -- that's happened in the past. I'm not sure of that point, but I think the White House clearly needs to come to grips with this and make it very clear while it has differences with the NEA -- and certainly it's easy to see why it would have differences -- but it cannot live with this kind of statement about the largest teachers' union at a time when we're in a war on terrorism.
O'BRIEN: Do you...
GERGEN: To call it a terrorist organization is unbelievable. It's just stunning.
O'BRIEN: Do you think Democrats pick up on that and somehow leverage that issue? Or do you think it's one of those issues that's so incendiary, to use your word, everybody backs off?
GERGEN: No. I think the Democrats do pick up on it. You don't let things like that slide. It was said in a private meeting.
The question becomes is it -- obviously the words were ill chosen. The question becomes does it reveal something deeper about the administration's view about teachers and the teachers' union? If that's the case, we have a serious, serious problem in the country about educational reform, which is so critical to the quality of public education.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly theyll be some kind of response from somebody, we've got to imagine, in the next couple of hours, in the next several hours.
GERGEN: OK.
O'BRIEN: David Gergen joining us this morning.
Nice to see you, as always.
GERGEN: Good to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, as always, for your insight.
We appreciate it.
GERGEN: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
