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American Morning
Martha Stewart Case
Aired February 26, 2004 - 07:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Martha Stewart trial could be in the hands of the jury by the middle of next week. If you blinked, you might have missed the defense's case yesterday. The recipe was pretty simple: one witness, a dash of notes, and not one ounce of recollection.
CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin joins us to talk about why the defense was so short and the risk in that.
Good morning. Nice to see you again.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.
O'BRIEN: The guy on the stand was an attorney named Steven Pearl. I think the testimony lasted something like 17 minutes.
TOOBIN: And was probably long at that. It was not worth even 17 minutes.
O'BRIEN: How unusual was it? What was the jury's reaction to the wrap-up like that?
TOOBIN: Well, it's not unusual for defense cases to last for a very short time. Defense usually rely on cross-examination rather than putting on their own witness. But usually, if you want to call a witness, you want to have some impact.
And this guy was this dweebie (ph) little lawyer who didn't remember a thing about Martha Stewart's interview. The idea was they wanted to challenge the FBI agent, who testified about what Martha said at this interview.
O'BRIEN: Since nothing was recorded.
TOOBIN: Since there is no transcript, no tape recording. But it was clear this guy's notes were useless. He didn't remember much, and it was a great big thud in the courtroom, I thought.
O'BRIEN: So, it kind of ended on a blah...
TOOBIN: A blah note, absolutely.
O'BRIEN: But you do say that a bombshell in this case was this audiotape recording, and this was Peter Bacanovic talking to the Securities and Exchange Commission investigators. And they're talking about Stewart's manager, Heidi DeLuca, and that whole question about whether or not -- what would happen if they ever talked about the stock dropping to 60.
So, first let's listen to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sound.
TOOBIN: Let's listen to the tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PETER BACANOVIC, MARTHA STEWART'S BROKER: I don't get into that level of detail with Heidi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, the issue of the stock at $60 didn't come up with Heidi?
BACANOVIC: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Heidi never brought it up to you?
BACANOVIC: No, she only brought it up to me in terms of adding gains to the account.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Days earlier, the only sort of what everyone said was great defense for Martha Stewart was Heidi's testimony saying that she had had a conversation. How big a problem is this?
TOOBIN: The defense spent three days trying to get Heidi DeLuca to say that she spoke with Bacanovic, and they stalked about this $60 agreement.
Here, they have the defendant himself saying absolutely clearly they never talked about it. I thought it was really bad for the defense, and not just for Bacanovic, because if this $60 agreement is a fraud, it's a fraud for both Bacanovic and Stewart. One of them can't have the agreement and not the other. So, I thought that the prosecution really ended its case on a high note.
O'BRIEN: As they end now, it really goes to the lawyers. I mean, this is all about performance issues now, right?
TOOBIN: It is.
O'BRIEN: I mean...
TOOBIN: Well, and there is the judge either today or tomorrow will decide whether she's going to dismiss any of the counts. That issue is still outstanding. But Monday and Tuesday are summations. And, you know, they are going to be unusually important, I think, because this isn't like a murder case where everybody sort of understands what the issues are. There's a lot of complex financial evidence, and both sides are going to have to sum it up, pick it up from disparate parts. And it's a real challenge for the lawyers.
O'BRIEN: Lots of pressure on Robert Morvillo?
TOOBIN: Lots of pressure on Robert Morvillo, lots of pressure on Karen Seymore, the prosecutor. I mean, this is going to be a true test of lawyering, and I can't wait to watch it.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know. You've been really into this trial.
TOOBIN: I've been into this trial.
O'BRIEN: It's been very interesting.
TOOBIN: It has been.
O'BRIEN: And we'll see what the judge says.
TOOBIN: And we could get a verdict next week.
O'BRIEN: I'm sure. All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired February 26, 2004 - 07:18 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Martha Stewart trial could be in the hands of the jury by the middle of next week. If you blinked, you might have missed the defense's case yesterday. The recipe was pretty simple: one witness, a dash of notes, and not one ounce of recollection.
CNN senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin joins us to talk about why the defense was so short and the risk in that.
Good morning. Nice to see you again.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.
O'BRIEN: The guy on the stand was an attorney named Steven Pearl. I think the testimony lasted something like 17 minutes.
TOOBIN: And was probably long at that. It was not worth even 17 minutes.
O'BRIEN: How unusual was it? What was the jury's reaction to the wrap-up like that?
TOOBIN: Well, it's not unusual for defense cases to last for a very short time. Defense usually rely on cross-examination rather than putting on their own witness. But usually, if you want to call a witness, you want to have some impact.
And this guy was this dweebie (ph) little lawyer who didn't remember a thing about Martha Stewart's interview. The idea was they wanted to challenge the FBI agent, who testified about what Martha said at this interview.
O'BRIEN: Since nothing was recorded.
TOOBIN: Since there is no transcript, no tape recording. But it was clear this guy's notes were useless. He didn't remember much, and it was a great big thud in the courtroom, I thought.
O'BRIEN: So, it kind of ended on a blah...
TOOBIN: A blah note, absolutely.
O'BRIEN: But you do say that a bombshell in this case was this audiotape recording, and this was Peter Bacanovic talking to the Securities and Exchange Commission investigators. And they're talking about Stewart's manager, Heidi DeLuca, and that whole question about whether or not -- what would happen if they ever talked about the stock dropping to 60.
So, first let's listen to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sound.
TOOBIN: Let's listen to the tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PETER BACANOVIC, MARTHA STEWART'S BROKER: I don't get into that level of detail with Heidi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, the issue of the stock at $60 didn't come up with Heidi?
BACANOVIC: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Heidi never brought it up to you?
BACANOVIC: No, she only brought it up to me in terms of adding gains to the account.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Days earlier, the only sort of what everyone said was great defense for Martha Stewart was Heidi's testimony saying that she had had a conversation. How big a problem is this?
TOOBIN: The defense spent three days trying to get Heidi DeLuca to say that she spoke with Bacanovic, and they stalked about this $60 agreement.
Here, they have the defendant himself saying absolutely clearly they never talked about it. I thought it was really bad for the defense, and not just for Bacanovic, because if this $60 agreement is a fraud, it's a fraud for both Bacanovic and Stewart. One of them can't have the agreement and not the other. So, I thought that the prosecution really ended its case on a high note.
O'BRIEN: As they end now, it really goes to the lawyers. I mean, this is all about performance issues now, right?
TOOBIN: It is.
O'BRIEN: I mean...
TOOBIN: Well, and there is the judge either today or tomorrow will decide whether she's going to dismiss any of the counts. That issue is still outstanding. But Monday and Tuesday are summations. And, you know, they are going to be unusually important, I think, because this isn't like a murder case where everybody sort of understands what the issues are. There's a lot of complex financial evidence, and both sides are going to have to sum it up, pick it up from disparate parts. And it's a real challenge for the lawyers.
O'BRIEN: Lots of pressure on Robert Morvillo?
TOOBIN: Lots of pressure on Robert Morvillo, lots of pressure on Karen Seymore, the prosecutor. I mean, this is going to be a true test of lawyering, and I can't wait to watch it.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I know. You've been really into this trial.
TOOBIN: I've been into this trial.
O'BRIEN: It's been very interesting.
TOOBIN: It has been.
O'BRIEN: And we'll see what the judge says.
TOOBIN: And we could get a verdict next week.
O'BRIEN: I'm sure. All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
