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LOU DOBBS TONIGHT
Haitian President in Exile; Trade Groups Form Alliance
Aired March 1, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight: Former Haitian President Aristide is in exile. American Marines are in Port-au- Prince. And Haitians are celebrating.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: He was not kidnapped. We did not force him on to the airplane.
DOBBS: Big business says outsourcing your jobs is good; 200 trade groups have formed an alliance to drive the export of more American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
"Broken Borders." A growing number of states have had enough. Maryland legislators are proposing tough measures to crack down on illegal aliens and protect American jobs.
PATRICK MCDONOUGH, MARYLAND STATE DELEGATE: America does not exist to give everybody else in the world a job.
And on the eve of Super Tuesday, I'll be talking with the chairman of California's Democratic Party, Art Torres. And Mary Matalin joins me tonight to talk about the Bush-Cheney campaign and the issues she expects to dominate this year's election.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, March 1. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, hundreds of U.S. Marines are in Haiti. Hundreds more are on the way. The Marines are securing key points in the capital city of Port-au-Prince after a three-week uprising against the government of President Aristide. The Marines landed after President Aristide resigned and agreed to go into exile. So far, the Marines have not met any resistance from Haitian rebels.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By the end of Monday, Pentagon officials say some 300 U.S. Marines will have arrived in Port-au-Prince to spearhead the interim force that's to keep order until U.N. peacekeepers take over some time in the next three months. Altogether, the Pentagon has 2,000 Marines on standby.
But the U.S. goal is to minimize how many are actually sent. The final number depends on how many other countries show up, and how much peace actually needs to be kept.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I don't know what the number will be, but probably, for the sake of argument, say, 1,500 or 2,000 or less. But time will tell. We'll have what's needed.
MCINTYRE: Already, French and Canadian troops have arrived, and several other countries are expected as well. Pentagon officials say the U.S. would be happy to turn over the lead role as soon as possible.
The Pentagon won't discuss the rules of engagement for peacekeepers, but insists the U.S. Marines will have the ability to protect themselves as well as the authority to protect Haitians or stop looting if necessary.
GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: They're going to be adequately armed, not just with their personal protective gear and their offensive weapons, but with the rules allowing them to do the job they should be...
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon is being deliberately vague about when the U.S. would intervene, sources say, so as not to sign the Marines up for police work or patrolling Haiti's crime-ridden neighborhoods.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. wants to get in and out of Haiti as quickly as possible, and so far has made no commitment to contribute troops to the U.N. force that would take over by June. The U.S. military is stretched by the war on terrorism. One Pentagon official said -- quote -- "We've got better things to do" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you.
Two U.S. congressmen today said American troops kidnapped former President Aristide and then forced him to leave Haiti. Senior officials strongly denied that charge. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said Aristide left Haiti on his own free will.
White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux reports -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it was the Pentagon, the State Department, as well as the White House, all came out very aggressively, emphatically denying these allegations that Aristide was forced out of his own country, this coming after Aristide made phone calls to several members of Congress, members of the Congressional Black Caucus, as well as a longtime friend and activist, Randall Robinson.
Aristide claims that he was kidnapped at gunpoint and that he was put on a U.S. plane, that he didn't know where he was going and that he was forced, against his will, to stay in the Central African Republic. Well, Secretary Powell, Secretary Rumsfeld and many other U.S. officials coming out very strongly today, calling this absolutely absurd. Secretary Powell said that there were aides to Aristide who came to the U.S. ambassador of Haiti, asked him, if he resigned, would he get protection? He was assured that he would.
He was provided with a plane. They say that Aristide traveled with his own security force, and that the U.S. did not move in removing Aristide until he formally resigned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWELL: He was not kidnapped. We did not force him onto the airplane. He went onto the airplane willingly. And that's the truth. And it would have been better for members of Congress who have heard these stories to ask us about the stories before going public with them, so that we don't make a difficult situation that much more difficult.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Conspiracy theories like that do nothing to help the Haitian people realize the future that they aspire to, which is a better future, a more free future, and a more prosperous future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And, Lou, I spoke with a force who is familiar with these telephone conversations who said that there was some nuance involved, that it is very possible that Aristide was overstating his case -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you very much.
Haiti, not the only foreign policy issue facing the president in the Western Hemisphere today. Anti-government protesters blocked the streets in the capital of Caracas for a fourth straight day. Those protesters are demanding a referendum on whether Hugo Chavez should stay in office. Chavez said he will never give up his presidency, like the Haitian leader. The Venezuelan president has often said the United States supports opposition attempts to overthrow him. Venezuela is the world's fifth leading oil producer and a major oil exporter to the United States.
Turning to politics in this country, on the eve of Super Tuesday, Senators John Kerry and John Edwards spent much of the day in Ohio and Georgia. Senator Kerry also delivered a speech in Maryland that strongly criticized President Bush and his policies.
Bob Franken has the report from Baltimore -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, both of the candidates believe the vulnerability of the administration, the vulnerabilities will include the economy. So it's no surprise that each of the main candidates, Edwards and Kerry, emphasized the economy in their last-minute attacks before Super Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If he came here, I think he could straighten out his fuzzy math, because the numbers don't add up. He's not multiplying the jobs. He's trying to divide America, and so I think our solution, we ought to subtract George Bush from the political equation of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's clear that this president understands what free trade is. But I think we're going to have to teach him what fair trade is. We are today borrowing $1.5 billion a day from China and countries -- other countries around the world because of our trade deficit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: We'll see how that all plays out tomorrow. Super Tuesday is well named. It's over 1,150 delegates that are at stake, more than half of those needed to win the convention. Kerry is hoping for a blowout to bury Edwards.
Edwards is hoping that he has his by now patented comeback, so he can stay in the race. In fact, he's already planning to go on to the Southern primaries a week hence -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bob, thank you.
As Bob just reported, a central issue in the campaign, trade and its effect on American jobs. Tonight, President Bush intervened in the escalating trade conflict between the United States and Europe. President Bush asked Congress to take action to replace laws that give billions of dollars in tax breaks for companies that export American products.
Today, as we reported last week, the European Union carried out its threat to impose hundreds of millions of dollars in sanctions against a wide variety of U.S. goods.
Still ahead here: The federal government is not dealing with immigration policy. Some states have decided to take matters into their own hands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MORALES, LEGAL IMMIGRANT: If you are illegal, you do not belong here. You do not have the right to jump the line. You do not have the right to take jobs away from people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Also ahead tonight, the meat you buy may not be as safe as you think and certainly not safe for the reasons you think. Only a small quantity of meat imports are inspected.
And Republicans prepare to launch an all-out attack against the Democrats. I'll be talking with a top adviser to the Bush-Cheney campaign, Mary Matalin -- all of that and more coming right up.
Please stay with us.
DOBBS: A growing number of states are fed up waiting for Washington to stop the massive influx of illegal aliens into this country. Now lawmakers in Maryland have proposed tough new laws that would have a dramatic effect on illegal immigration.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Maryland's Eastern Shore, day laborers show up to shuck oysters, no questions asked, no documents needed. An estimated 130,000 illegal aliens are estimated to have moved to the state between 1990 and 1999, according to the Census Bureau. But as their numbers have swelled, so has resentment. More than 200 people attended a rally this weekend to protest illegal immigration.
MCDONOUGH: We not only have American jobs being exported outside of America. We have people from around the world coming to America illegally and taking our jobs.
SYLVESTER: Maryland is considering a package of bills that would give local law enforcement officers the ability to lock up illegal aliens and would ban aliens from getting driver's licenses. The Mexican matricula card would not be accepted as a primary form of identification, and anyone who knowingly allows an alien to drive their vehicle would have their driver's license suspended for six months.
The last bill was introduced after a Baltimore County police officer was killed in 2002 when his car was hit by an illegal alien from Peru.
RICHARD IMPALLARIA, MARYLAND STATE DELEGATE: We support doing the lawful thing, and we need to pull out the welcome mat that was laid down for illegals.
MORALES: If you are illegal, you do not belong here. You do not have the right to jump the line. You do not have the right to take jobs away from people.
SYLVESTER: But legislation aimed at curbing illegal immigration could have a negative effect, according to pro-immigration groups.
KIM PROPEACK, CASA OF MARYLAND: If we were to close out the 135,000 estimated undocumented -- just undocumented workers in the state of Maryland tomorrow, there are significant industries in particular regions that would really just have to shut their doors.
SYLVESTER: Or the industries would have to hire legal workers at higher wages, which is what the proponents of the legislation hope to accomplish.
SYLVESTER: Other states are also addressing the immigration issue. In Arizona, the statehouse is considering a measure that would pull the state license of any company that hires illegal workers. And last year, Colorado became the first state to ban the acceptance of matricula cards and foreign driver's licenses -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
And that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: Would you support laws in your state similar to those proposed in Maryland to restrict legal documents issued to illegal aliens, yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results of this poll later in the broadcast.
The problems of our "Broken Borders" are certainly not restricted to immigration. They also jeopardize our inspection of imports, including some of the nation's food supply. Tonight, there are new concerns about the quality of meat that is being imported into this country.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Take a close look. The meat in a U.S. supermarket says USDA inspected. But that doesn't mean it was looked at by U.S. meat inspectors. That inspection can be done thousands of miles away by a foreign inspector in another country. Consumer groups say so much of those foreign inspections are flawed.
LORI WALLACH, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL TRADE WATCH PUBLIC CITIZENS: Under the WTO and NAFTA rules, the U.S. is accepting meat into the U.S. that it's determined as equivalent. And we're eating it, even though this meat doesn't meet the most basic standards of our U.S. food safety systems.
PILGRIM: Imported meat from 28 countries with so-called equivalent standards is stamped with the USDA seal as it comes into the United States. The most recent available statistics show only about 7 percent of that meat is reinspected by U.S. inspectors.
BILL BULLARD, CEO, R-CALF USA: We are not requiring these countries to meet our identical standards. We firmly believe here in the United States that we produce the best beef under the very best of conditions, the most stringent health and safety conditions.
PILGRIM: The foreign meat inspector is also supposed to be a government official. But, in some cases, the inspector was a private employee on the payroll of the meat company. Public Citizens says violations were found repeatedly in Mexico, for example, over the last few years. The USDA just suspended meat imports from France. But violations had gone on for years. And during that time, meat was still imported from France. In 2002, the USDA began to notice problems with three French plants. In 2003, it was four plants. But it wasn't until this February the USDA said there was enough of a problem to ban all meat products from France. The same ban also was put on meat products from Hungary last month and is still in effect.
PILGRIM: The USDA said they had problems with Mexico and Argentina with some meat inspectors being on the company payroll. But now they say the situation has been cleared up. And consumer groups say they favor putting country of origin labels on meat to help consumers make an informed choice -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, of course, they're fighting like the dickens to keep that country of origin label off.
PILGRIM: They've just pushed it back another two years.
PILGRIM: It was supposed to take effect this year.
DOBBS: It's absolutely inexcusable. It is disgusting, what they're doing. The second part of that, you said the matter has been cleared up. Yet is Global Watch satisfied?
PILGRIM: Well, no, they're not. And, in fact, you can clean up one plant, and then it turns up in another. So it's a continuing vigilance.
DOBBS: So why in the world is the U.S. government permitting U.S. consumers to be jeopardized in this way?
PILGRIM: Yes. They actually say the inspection process has improved. But...
DOBBS: But that doesn't sound like going from 7 percent to 8 percent is an adequate response.
PILGRIM: No. I agree with you. And consumer groups are absolutely outraged.
DOBBS: As I would think consumers would be, whose health is at risk.
Kitty, thank you very much -- Kitty Pilgrim.
Well, on the topic of "Broken Borders," Mexican President Vicente Fox continues to press the Bush administration with considerable vigor to open our already porous border with Mexico. "Tonight Show" host Jay Leno had a few thoughts on the topic. And we thought you might appreciate sharing them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")
JAY LENO, HOST: Mexican President Vicente Fox caused a huge controversy by demanding that the United States make it easier for immigrants to cross our border. Easier? What does he want, moving sidewalks? What does he want, a shuttle bus, a car pool lane Could it any be easier?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, maybe those are proposals that President Fox would want to talk about to President Bush at his ranch in Texas when they meet this Friday.
Still ahead here tonight, Super Tuesday could tighten the race for the White House and the president's reelection team planning for a multimillion-dollar advertising blitz. We'll be talking with Republican strategist Mary Matalin, California Democratic Chairman Art Torres and our panel of leading political journalists coming right up.
And then "Exporting America." There's a new sheriff in town. A group that calls itself the Coalition For Economic Growth and American Jobs is ready to vigorously promote the shipment of American jobs overseas. We'll have that report for you -- that and a great deal more still ahead.
Please stay with us.
DOBBS: The Bush-Cheney reelection campaign will launch its first television advertising this Thursday, two days after the Super Tuesday primaries and caucuses. Republicans are expected to strike back at Democratic charges that President Bush has failed in his economic policies and failed to create new jobs.
Joining me now is Mary Matalin, an adviser to the Bush-Cheney campaign, a longtime Republican strategist.
Mary, good to have you here.
MARY MATALIN, BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Too long, Lou. Too long. Don't age me, man.
DOBBS: I promise not to.
The fact of the matter is that this has been pretty much a one- sided deal so far, at least in the campaign. The president started attacking last week. But now you're going to come with the big money and the big advertising. What are you going to say?
MATALIN: Well, I wouldn't characterize the president -- it wasn't even a defense. It was an actual portrayal of his record and his vision, his policies, as opposed to what we've been hearing in the primaries.
But, yes, they've been all over the field. We're haven't been suited up. We're suiting up. We're getting out there. And I don't think that the strategy of the campaign is to go on the attack. What we're going to look at, what appears to be the Democratic nominee's records, Senator Kerry's record, which is fair game and they're going to look at ours, which is fair game.
And ours is of a piece, and it fits into a global strategy. And theirs is just, we don't like Bush and Bush is this, that and the other thing. Well, that's not a winning strategy. That's just a primary silliness.
DOBBS: You know, I've heard, as have you, as have all of our viewers, listening and watching you right now, have heard, this is going to be, has been the dirtiest campaign in recent memory and so forth. I have to tell you, Mary, I've heard more discussion of real issues so far in this campaign than I recall certainly in 2000. How do you feel?
MATALIN: I think it's been -- well, I'm going to disagree with you, my friend.
DOBBS: All right.
MATALIN: I think it's been somewhat vacuous.
I think it has been negative, in the sense that the attacks on the president have been less to do on his policies and certainly haven't offered any alternatives. It's just that he's a miserable failure. He's a felon. He was AWOL. I mean, those aren't substantive issues.
Well, what they're not reflective of is this, is the seriousness of the times. I campaign for other candidates. I do a lot of speaking. I've traveled all over the country. And I think the voters are way ahead of -- certainly ahead of the silly season here. They understand we're in a different global environment economically and security-wise. And they're not -- this is going to get -- this better get better by the general election, or there are going to be a lot of cynical voters out there.
DOBBS: Well, I think we're going in with quite a few. I think you would agree with that.
But the fact is, the issue of free or fair trade has already moved to the center. And with a $3 trillion accumulated trade debt, $7 trillion public debt, the issues of the budget deficit, the issue of education that has already been advanced, and the outsourcing of jobs, a critically important issue, those seem like substantive issues to me, Mary.
MATALIN: They are substantive. But there's been a lot of demagoguery on them and a lot of false portrayal of the president's record on this, and a lot of really, frankly, distortion to the American people. We are in a global economy. This is a whole different economy than the one we grew up with. I grew up in the steel mills. This is -- the manufacturing sector, in particular, has been losing, as a percentage of GDP, jobs for 50 years. I know this, because my family lost their jobs. So the president's put real policies on the table, safety net policies and education policies for training for the 21st century.
We've got to be real about this. You can't just say, in a dynamic global economy, that we're going to outlaw all trade. Well, let's take a couple of economies out there, including our own.
DOBBS: Well, Mary, one of the things that sort of amazes me, whether Democrat or Republican, it is the idea that there is either protectionism or there is free trade. I mean, you're talking about being substantive here and being real. These candidates have got to get real, because we're talking about real lives here, 15 million of them right now.
MATALIN: Lou, you're -- let's go and have a drink. That's exactly right.
MATALIN: And that's why I say they're in the silly season. And I don't think -- I think the combination of Dean and now Edwards has dragged Kerry way away from where President Clinton had put that party, which was trade policies that are fair, that are level, their policy. And our party together, our parties, both of our parties together voted for NAFTA. Now everybody's against NAFTA.
DOBBS: You know, I'm so glad to hear you say that, Mary. I've got to compliment you. You're the first partisan from either party to honestly say, both parties are responsible for the mess we're in on trade policy, the trade deficit and these issues. Bless you.
MATALIN: That's what we call a backhanded compliment, Lou.
DOBBS: That's not backhanded at all. I'm giving it to you absolutely straight. I mean it.
MATALIN: I say both parties are responsible for advancing the economy, which included President Clinton's support of logical and fair trade, NAFTA.
Now, if we do what president -- president -- the would-be president, the running-for-president Kerry wants to do or Edwards wants to do, we would lose millions of jobs. We would lose millions of dollars in exports. I know where you are on this.
DOBBS: Mary, now I've got to pull that back now, because I thought you had said something quite differently. MATALIN: Well, maybe he'll get level-headed.
DOBBS: We've gotten so far. We'd like you to come back soon. We can talk more about this and all the other important issues that the voters are going to have a chance to deal with this year, silly season or otherwise.
MATALIN: Barely scratched the surface.
DOBBS: You got it. Well, we're going to get beyond the surface here.
Thanks a lot, Mary.
MATALIN: See you, Lou.
DOBBS: All the best.
Still ahead, "Exporting America," a group that includes the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers, and others, fighting legislation that would protect American jobs from going overseas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's shame all these well-financed business groups are going to spend a lot of money and a lot of energy trying to defeat these bills.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: We'll have a special report coming up.
Plus, Oscar night in Hollywood the latest reminder of another industry shipping jobs overseas, why the American dream machine is now exporting America -- that, a great deal more, still ahead.
As always, please stay with us.
DOBBS: It's Election Day in California tomorrow, along with nine other states joining in Super Tuesday. California has more electoral votes than any other state. And when it comes to the Democrats, most of those votes will probably wind up with John Kerry. California also has the biggest budget deficit in the country and the dirtiest air. But voters in California don't seem to care that much about turning up at the polls tomorrow.
Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Super Tuesday turnout in California is expected to be below 40 percent. Blame it on competition from media attention from the Oscars, or the bad weather, or San Francisco's gay marriages, or blame it on California's gridlocked political process and primary races that look like walkovers, largely because state lawmakers agreed to gerrymander districts three years ago.
DAN SCHNUR, GOP POLITICAL CONSULTANT: If you were a voter in California, and you don't like your legislative or congressional representation, your only option is to call the moving vans, because the districts have been set up very, very safely for the incumbents of both parties.
WIAN: Four measures are on the ballots addressing what polls show are the most important issues to Californians, jobs and the economy, the state budget and taxes and education. Proposition 57 and 58 are Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's plan to ease the state's financial crisis with bonds and restrictions on future borrowing.
ANDREW GLOGER, PACIFIC RESTAURANT INSTITUTE: If we don't pass these two initiatives, then we're faced with the conundrum of deep spending cuts or tax increases, and probably both. And nobody likes that, either party.
WIAN: Proposition 56 would allow the state's Democratic majority lawmakers to approve a budget without Republican support. It's losing, because Californians fear it would lead to more tax increases. It's the third highest tax burden, that and rapidly rising worker's compensation costs are crippling California businesses. Voters are also asked to approve a $12 billion school construction bond. California ranks first in teacher pay nationally at $54,000 a year, but near the bottom in reading and math scores. Issues not on the ballot include health care, where California ranks 48th among states in the percentage of residents with health insurance. Violent crime, where it ranks 41st, and the environment, though improving, California still has the nation's dirtiest air.
WIAN: Progress on those issues may also be tied to the government's bond measures. If they succeed, political strategists say he'll have the political clout that the recent political governors have lacked -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much.
My guest tonight is the chairman of the Democratic party in California, Al Torres joins us tonight from San Francisco.
Good to have you with us.
ART TORRES, CHAIRMAN, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: It's Art Torres. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: I'm sorry I apologize.
That's all right. I want to applaud you for your tremendous effort on this overseas job situation, and I will support you in your effort to say that both Democrats and Republicans put NAFTA on the board and we have to take equal responsibility for that. And number two, let's find a reason for retraining for some of these workers.
DOBBS: You know what, we're off to a doggone good start, Art. Glad to have you here.
TORRES: Pleasure to be with you.
DOBBS: The election tomorrow, it looks like Senator Kerry like he's pretty well got it sewed up.
TORRES: I think so. And he's 13 points ahead of Bush in the "L.A. Times" poll last week. But again, we're kind of frustrated here in California. We think we should have been a little earlier. That's why I'm going to start pushing for regional primaries, or the notion of a national primary to have more voice from the regions in America rather than small states that don't even vote Democratic in November determining the momentum for candidates.
DOBBS: Senator Edwards has hit hard on trade, has hit hard on jobs. Senator Kerry as well on jobs and somewhat more muted on the issue of trade, as he's obviously trying to reach some sort of consensus on trade. You've lost 350,000 manufacturing jobs in California.
DOBBS: How important is that going to be to the voters making their choices tomorrow in your judgment?
TORRES: It's a major issue here in California. Not only in the Silicon Valley where thousands of engineering jobs have gone to other parts of the world with no expectation for retraining or reeducation. It's a serious problem a along the border. Vincente Fox's call for opening the borders is ridiculous. We ought to be talking moving economic aid and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) away from the borders and into those central states of Mexico which I argued since 1988, ought to be receiving this kind investment, especially infrastructure investment, to heed the call for those states. We know where many of the Mexican, for example, immigrants come into the U.S. Concentrate on those states in Mexico in terms of true infrastructure and capital investment and we will alleviate a lot of the problem instead of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) approach of opening the gate. And to what, for more chaos and more economic woes on both side of the border.
DOBBS: How is the reaction in California in particular to Vincente fox, the president of Mexico, with what appears -- and I will say this, speak only for myself -- with me, with great temerity head of state of another nation, telling basicly a president how to deal with those who surrender their citizenship in Mexico or cross the borders illegally.
What is your reaction to that?
TORRES: My reaction is it's a mission of failure from Vicente fox who started out as a reform for Mexico, and now tells us that he's essentially failed. Open the gates because I can't create economic empowerment here. And I think the people of California, whether they're Latino or non-Latino concerned about it also. And that is you cannot have a situation where you have an open-border policy as this president in Mexico is advocating without some repercussions. Again, the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was a mistake. You've got move them further into the internal part of Mexico, and other Latin American countries, and we haven't had a policy like that coming from this Bush administration.
DOBBS: Art Torres, we're out of time. We thank you for being here. I look forward to talking to you. I know that you will have a splendidly run primary tomorrow. Look forward to talking to you soon.
TORRES: God bless.
DOBBS: Thank you. Art Torres.
Vote in our poll tonight. Would you support laws in your state similar to those proposed in Maryland to restrict legal documents issued to illegal aliens? Yes or no.
Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Just ahead, American business leaders fighting to create jobs, just not in this country. We'll have a special report.
And the countdown to super Tuesday, the Democratic contenders make their final coast-to-coast pitch to voters. Our panel of top political journalists joins us next. Stay with us.
DOBBS: "Exporting America," a group that calls itself The Coalition For Economic Growth and American Jobs. An organization made up of some of the most influential business organizations in the country. And their chief concern -- protecting their right to ship your job overseas.
Bill Tucker reports.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With millions of Americans out of work, off-shoring has becoming something of a dirty word. It is, after all, in many cases why people are out of work in the first place.
JOHN CASTELLANI, PRES. BUSINESS ROUNDTABLE: The alternative, which is isolationism, doesn't work. I mean, it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work in the future. Secondly, we know that as we expand markets on a worldwide basis, we can create opportunities to bring those workers back into the workplace.
TUCKER: The Coalition for Economic Growth and American Jobs is a collection of several different groups. It includes the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, the National Association of Manufacturers, and others. It has some very deep pockets and is dedicated to defeating anti-outsourcing bills at the state level.
THEA LEE, AFL-CIO: I think it would be better if they took all that money and energy and used it to help keep some good jobs here in the United States.
TUCKER: About two dozen states are currently considering bills which would prohibit the use of taxpayer dollars from paying for work done outside the country. At the federal level, Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd has introduced legislation to ban federal tax dollars for off-shore work.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: This is a huge issue. And these companies need to understand, even for those of us who are strong, free traders, and I've been one, I'm not going to sit back and watch this happen to people in my state and across the country.
TUCKER: Senator Dodd knows computer programming jobs are running 6 and half percent and 7 percent computer hardware engineers.
TUCKER: Now, there currently is legislation which prohibits the use of federal tax dollars to do work off-shore, but it's temporary. It expires at the end of September, Lou.
DOBBS: Senator Dodd's bill would take care of that, and sort of kick over the bucket for everybody.
TUCKER: It would.
DOBBS: It's remarkable to hear Castellani say that isolationism doesn't work.
Who in the world is proposing isolationism?
TUCKER: That's their language. You're either for free trade or you're in isolation. There's no ground in the middle in terms of the language.
DOBBS: No one has responsibility for the policies taken. Don't answer that. I know you're reporting this story. I'm just reacting a bit. Thanks, Bill Tucker. We appreciate it.
TUCKER: Thank you.
DOBBS: The exporting of America has become a key issue in the Democratic primary. That season could effectively end tomorrow on Super Tuesday. Polls show front-runner Senator John Kerry leading in all ten states holding a primary or a caucus. Joining me now, a panel of top political journalists. Ron Brownstein, national political correspondent, "L. A. Times," he's in Los Angeles. Appropriately enough. Karen Tumulty, the national political correspondent for "TIME" magazine joining us from Washington. Roger Simon, political editor, "U.S. News and World Report" also in Washington.
Let me start with you, Roger. The -- there seems to be very little surprise awaiting us, or will we be surprised about that tomorrow?
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": I doubt it. It could happen. There have been surprises before. But the record is getting very similar week after week. John Edwards stays in the race, but John Kerry beats him anyway. So it makes very little difference if John Kerry stays in or not. He says he'll stay in after tomorrow. Even if he loses all ten states. But I think the sort of media swoon that he's been getting is going to disappear fast if he does lose all ten states. I think a lot of members of the party are going to go to him and say, look, you've had a nice run and maybe you'll get a vice presidential nod. But enough is enough. It's time to pack it in.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this question, Karen because I've had a number of viewers write in here and ask me point blank, is the press getting rested here. Because they've noticed over the past week more critical stories of Senator Kerry, of Senator Edwards. Is there sort of a period of sitting in sort of being swatted aside, by now a more critical look at the front runners, if you will?
KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, I think we often spend the first part of the cycle covering the process, the horse race, the who's ahead. But the fact is, there's nothing new to write on that, so I think we start then looking at a candidate's record and looking at how they're performing on the stump. I think, quite frankly, that that's a healthy thing. Because the fact is, if Senator Kerry can't stand up to the scrutiny now, he's certainly not going to make it all the way to November. Especially since, as you were just discussing earlier, that White House ad barrage starts this week.
DOBBS: Ron, your thoughts about that ad barrage? Will it be successful in turning what has been significant erosion of numbers for President Bush around?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's a big question. First of all, I think it will have some impact on the Democratic discussion. There may be more pressure on John Edwards with the knowledge that that ad campaign is beginning, if he doesn't do on Tuesday, to step aside and let the party begin to unify for the campaign against President Bush.
Lou, what's significant about Tuesday to me is not only the number of states, but look, you've got states in all parts of the country, all sorts of different kinds of states. And in particular, if John Edwards can't win in Georgia, a southern state near his home state of South Carolina, that allows Independents and Republicans to vote where he's done well, and if he can't win in Ohio, which should be very receptive to his tough on trade message, indeed, it's hard to think of a state that should be more receptive with that message with all the manufacturing jobs they've lost, the question he's got to ask is, if he can't win there, where can he beat Senator Kerry. And I think that will loom, should loom large in his calculations after Tuesday. TUMULTY: Listen to, by the way, to the word, Ron used here -- win. What has propelled Senator Edwards so far has been, you know, better than expected showings. A closer than expected showing in Wisconsin. The fact is, now he's got to win.
BROWNSTEIN: Right. On a one-on-one race there are no expectations anymore. There are simply winning and losing. It's a binary choice.
SIMON: And he's not only got to win, but he's got to win a significant number of states. It would be great for his campaign if he wins Georgia and Ohio. But I think he has to do more than that just to get up in the delegate count. When you're coming from as far behind as he's coming, with a proportional representation system, it is very difficult to make up lost ground. And he's got a lot of lost ground to make up.
DOBBS: You just heard Art Torres, the head of the California Democratic party, Mary Matalin, a very important Republican strategist, two quite different views. The suggestion in one case by Torres, that the issues of jobs, the economy were central and moving forward. And Mary Matalin suggesting that there was still too much noise and personal issues rather than substantive issues. How do you think that's going to play out?
SIMON: Mary Matalin always does a good job defending the president. And she did a good job tonight. But the very fact that she's here having to defend the president shows the weakness that the president is in. What happened to the president being the wartime president who's going to protect us from the evil forces around the globe and that should satisfy the American people.
In fact, the administration has found itself to argue on economic issues. The outsourcing of jobs being the most explosive and the most damaging for the Republican party. And it's a difficult position for the Republicans to find themselves in. Especially when Republican candidates for Congress and Senate are going to go to the White House and say, I can't run defending the outsourcing of jobs. The White House has to do something.
DOBBS: Karen, is that -- go ahead.
TUMULTY: Well, I think, yes, you know, Lou, watch the turnout tomorrow night. Because you have a race here that doesn't even look close anymore. If you see big turnout in these Democratic primaries, and especially somewhere like Ohio, which is a state the president barely won in 2000, and only after Al Gore basically pulled out three weeks before the election, if you see big Democratic turnout in these primaries, I think that does suggest that the president has a problem on his hands. And on the very issues that you were talking about.
DOBBS: And Ron, you're in Los Angeles waiting for the -- California's contribution to Super Tuesday. Art Torres sitting there agreeing with Bob basically, expectations of 40 percent turnout. Light turnout. Square that up for us. BROWNSTEIN: Look, the calendar doesn't work, Lou. There's no reason why the candidates should spend a week in Wisconsin, a week in Tennessee, and Virginia. And then have two weeks to devote to New York, Ohio, California, Georgia and six other states. The candidates haven't even been a rumor in this state. Neither have had money to buy television here. And they both passed through more quickly than sort of a sea breeze. So it's understandable that voters don't really have the time or -- don't have the time or the information to make an independent judgment. What you've got is every state really being affected by the domino of the state before it. That's what's propelling Kerry and making it almost impossible for Edwards especially with this compressed calender.
DOBBS: Ron, you sound like you're feeling taken for granted. Certainly not here at CNN. And we thank you very much, Ron, Karen, Roger, thank you all. Look forward to seeing you tomorrow.
China today launched an astonishing attack against the United States. Beijing strongly criticized human rights in this country. And accused of the United States of, quote, "wantonly engaging in military adventures overseas" end quote. The Chinese report comes a week after the State Department reported China is backsliding on its human rights commitments. The State Department cited the arrest of Chinese dissidents and the Chinese crackdown on the free speech on the Internet.
Coming up next, Hollywood exports America. Foreign countries luring Hollywood to make movies outside the United States and doing a very effective job of it. That and a great deal more still ahead. Please stay with us.
DOBBS: Hollywood is making more and more films outside this country, taking advantage of foreign tax incentives and cheaper labor. And many Americans who depend on the movie business are suffering as a result. The film industry calls it runaway productions. We call it exporting Hollywood.
BILLY CRYSTAL, HOST, ACADEMY AWARDS: Hello. Look at this! Everybody from Hollywood is here. Wait, this is like the Canadian Oscars.
DOBBS (voice-over): Billy Crystal was kidding about outsourced movie production, but it's no joke in Hollywood. Hollywood calls them runaway productions, movies released here and shot outside the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This issue has grown over the last five or 10 years into a problem of monumental proportions. We are losing $10 billion a year to runaway production.
DOBBS: U.S. market share of movie production has fallen 22 percent in the past six years. Benefiting from that drop, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Eastern Europe. That translates to lost jobs and lots of them.
BRENT SWIFT, FILM & TELEVISION ACTION COMMITTEE: We're losing approximately 20,000 jobs per year. And that's a great number when you look at the film business.
DOBBS: "Cold Mountain," the Oscar-nominated Civil War epic, was shot in Romania, using European and British production teams with a $90 million budget. Miramax got more than $10 million of that budget back, in tax incentives from foreign governments for shooting overseas.
The company is also quick to point out it spent $18 million in America.
"Mystic River," another Oscar-nominated picture, shot entirely on location in Boston, at the insistence of its director, Clint Eastwood.
SAG President Melissa Gilbert says the made-for-television movie business faces the same problem.
MELISSA GILBERT, SAG PRESIDENT: When you're talking about "The Rudy Giuliani Story" being shot in Montreal, "The Reagans" was shot in Toronto. "Little House on the Prairie" remake is being done in Calgary, Canada. That's a problem.
DOBBS: Last year, of the 88 movies made for television, only five were made in this country.
DOBBS: Turning now to our top story, the crisis in Haiti, hundreds of U.S. Marines are now in Haiti, securing, as we reported to you, key points in the capital of Port-au-Prince after President Aristide resigned. The former president joins us now by telephone for one of his first interviews since agreeing to go into exile in Central African Republic. Mr. Aristide, thank you for joining us. Can you hear me?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FORMER PRESIDENT OF HAITI: I can hear you, sir.
DOBBS: Mr. Aristide, first, you're in good health, you're in appropriate accommodations?
ARISTIDE: Yes. But my mind is in Haiti, where they are killing people, burning houses, after using (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to push me out. And that's why I call it a real coup d'etat, a modern way to have modern kidnapping.
DOBBS: Mr. Aristide, as you know, are you suggesting that you were then in point of fact taken by force by U.S. military?
ARISTIDE: Of course, from Saturday -- from Saturday night, the 28th, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) military were in progress. And I was told that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I better leave. And under a kind of diplomatic cover, they talked to me. And military talked to me. American agents talked to me. Haitian agents talked to me. And I finally realized it was true, we were going to have bloodshed. And when I asked how many people may get killed, and they said thousands may get killed. So using that kind of force to lead a coup d'etat, it was clear, as I said.
DOBBS: You made then, if I hear you, Mr. Aristide, a difficult choice based on the assessment of those advisers around you, and including American advisers, it sounds like, for the public safety of those -- of your fellow citizens, is that correct?
ARISTIDE: What is very clear is the fact that we have military surrounding the airport, the palace, my house. In the streets, we had some (ph) military maybe from other countries, I don't know, but I know for sure there were a lot of the American militaries with Haitians, well armed (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And they told me in a clear and blunt way that thousands of people will get killed once they start. So I had to do my best to avoid that bloodshed. They used (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to push me out. That's why I call it again and again a coup d'etat, a modern way to have modern kidnapping.
DOBBS: Mr. Aristide, having made that decision, and now in the Central African Republic, is there -- have you received the support of the United Nations, spokesmen -- the representatives of the French government in particular, the Canadian government talked with you and supported your decision to leave Haiti and offer further counsel?
ARISTIDE: Maybe if I add this point, people will understand (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I spent 20 hours in an American plane with military guys. And one (UNINTELLIGIBLE) baby, one year and a half old, whose father is an American agent, and the mother is Haitian. Not even this little baby has the right to get out of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) when we had the first step -- the first stop. And when we have to go to the second one, they didn't want to tell me where they were going to meet with me. We didn't have one single phone call, no telephone was used, because they refused.
And this little baby spending 20 hours in an American plane, with American guys. Only 20 minutes before they landed here, they told me, finally, we were coming to land (ph), on the French bases with military -- French military. And fortunately, we had five ministers from the government who greeted us in this very warm way. And we are grateful to them. But who's to say that they did that to a baby one year and a half old. You can imagine how (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was what I call modern way to have modern kidnapping.
DOBBS: I can only guess at the emotion that you must go through through. The emotions in Haiti today from all quarters of Haitian society. Your family, Mr. Aristide, we understand that at least part of your family is in New York tonight, is that correct?
ARISTIDE: Yes. I don't know if the first lady, who is an American lady, is allowed to go to Miami to see her family. And I don't know if I am free to leave where I am to go to New York or elsewhere.
I have three more people with me. We are here after the terrible experience which we had in American plane, in which American military not allowing us to have contact with our people, not allowing a baby one year and a half to get out from the plane when they stopped the first time, when they stopped the second time. And then, that little baby had to go back with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plane, for how long? It is a tragedy. You need to understand that.
DOBBS: Indeed. Mr. Aristide, do you have, first, any desire to come to the United States, and secondly, what are your immediate plans?
ARISTIDE: If they allow me, I will be very delighted to go to the United States whenever it's necessary or possible, meet people, tell the truth, and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what they want to create. They want to create confusion. And I want to tell the truth, not confusion.
DOBBS: Mr. Aristide, we thank you very much for talking with us, and thank you again, sir.
ARISTIDE: Thank you.
DOBBS: That is our broadcast for this evening. We thank you for being with us. Tomorrow, of course, the primary elections, super Tuesday. Governor Bob Taft of Ohio will be with us. Ohio, a major battleground state. One hundred and forty delegates up for grabs in the primary tomorrow. Also, we'll be joined by our panel of the country's top political journalists, and Senator Max Baucus offers a positive response to the issue of offshoring. He joins us as well. We hope you will too.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Anderson Cooper is next.
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