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Martha Stewart Jury Deliberations Delayed; Rebel Haitians to Disarm; Jury Consultant Explains How Peterson's Jury to be Picked; New York City Protestors Urge Gay Marriage Licenses

Aired March 04, 2004 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, ANCHOR: It is 11 a.m. on the East Coast, 8 a.m. on the West Coast. From CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.
Up first this hour on CNN, a delay in deciding the fate of domestic icon Martha Stewart. The jury was supposed to resume deliberations last hour, but some jurors have been delayed in getting to the courthouse.

Our Mary Snow wasn't delayed. She's right outside the courthouse, where she's supposed to be, in New York City this morning.

Mary, good morning.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Daryn. Good morning.

Yes, a subway accident delayed four of the jurors. So things starting a little bit later than had been anticipated.

But certainly, the jurors have their work cut out for them. If there's anything to be read by the notes jurors sent to the judge yesterday, it's that they are doing a thorough job.

Late yesterday, they asked for at least six pieces of evidence from the judge, including some testimony from Doug Faneuil. That's the government's star witness. And he testified for four days on the stand.

The jurors wanted testimony about December 27, 2001. That's the day that Martha Stewart sold her ImClone stock.

They also asked for a chart of phone calls that was made up, records from Martha Stewart's assistant. Also, phone records from her defendant, Peter Bacanovic.

So a lot of work to go through ahead on this, the second day of deliberations. The jury getting the case late yesterday morning after the judge instructed them.

There are four counts against Martha Stewart, including conspiracy, obstruction of justice, making false statements. Five counts against Peter Bacanovic, her co-defendant. Each of these counts carries a maximum of five years prison and a $250,000 fine -- Daryn.

KAGAN: So Mary, when do they expect court to get under way? SNOW: Very shortly. There was some words that the subway accident had been -- I guess that things -- the trains were moving once again. So we expect things to get under way pretty soon this morning.

KAGAN: All right. Mary Snow, we will check back with you in lower Manhattan. Thank you for that.

The process of picking a jury to hear the murder case against Scott Peterson begins today in California.

About 200 prospective jurors will fill out 30-page questionnaires. The questions will range from whether they read "Field & Stream" to whether they've ever had an affair.

Scott Peterson is charged with two counts of murder in the deaths of his wife, Laci, and her unborn son. He insists that he is innocent. We'll have more on jury selection in just a moment.

Other legal news now. The only man convicted so far in the September 11 attacks will get a new trial. The Moroccan man was convict a year ago in Germany of assisting some of the 9/11 hijackers when they lived in Hamburg. He was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

A German court today overturned the conviction and ordered a new trial. Defense lawyers argued he didn't receive a fair trial because the U.S. denied him access to a key witness.

And in Transom (ph), South Carolina, a man held as an enemy combatant in the Navy brig has finally met with defense attorneys after almost two years. The meeting was monitored by the government, which means there was no attorney/client confidentiality.

Jose Padilla has been incommunicado since June of 2002. He's accused of terrorist activity, but no charges have been filed. The Supreme Court has agreed to hear Padilla's case in April.

And now to the crisis in Haiti. Rebel leader Guy Phillipe is backtracking, and now says he and his band of followers will disarm.

More now from CNN's Lucia Newman, who is in Port-au-Prince.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How fast things change in Haiti.

Wednesday morning, it was the U.S. Marines who were calling the shots. The very same place where the day before Haitian insurgents had set up their headquarters and declared themselves in command of the streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very conscious about this situation (ph).

NEWMAN: So was almost everyone else, when rebel commander Guy Phillipe announced he and his men were laying down their weapons. Trying to save face, he explained his about-face.

GUY PHILIPPIE, REBEL COMMANDER: This morning, we had a meeting with the general here, Jamaican general, and he assured us that his troops will take care of the people's security.

NEWMAN: Phillipe says he and his men, now no longer so visible, are awaiting order from Haiti's interim president to hand in their weapons, intense pressure from Washington apparently having forced his hand.

The Marines patrol downtown. While just a few blocks away, Haitian police were fired upon and shot back. It's not clear by whom, but armed rebels loyal to Haiti's former president are still at large.

And the power vacuum left by Aristide's departure is making Haiti more unstable by the day, with the former opposition demanding a new prime minister and government be named immediately.

CHARLES BAKER, DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM: When you're being attacked, nothing is ever fast enough. Go downtown and see the chaos and the pillage and -- I mean, we've lost over $100 million.

NEWMAN (on camera): If you ask most Haitians what's the most urgent thing right now, they'll say security. The responsibility for that now falls squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. Marines and other international peacekeepers, a daunting task at that.

Lucia Newman, CNN, Port-au-Prince.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Let's get back to the Scott Peterson case. Both sides have hired consultant to help them decide which potential jurors they should choose.

Cynthia Cohen is a jury consultant, and she's in our L.A. bureau this morning. We decided to pick her brain about how you pick a jury for this trial.

Good morning.

CYNTHIA COHEN, JURY CONSULTANT: Good morning.

KAGAN: First, you've got to help me here with this 30-page questionnaire. Questions like, have you ever had an affair? Do you have bumper stickers on your car? And do you read "Field & Stream" magazine? Help me make sense of all that.

COHEN: Well, what they want to do is they want to find questions that will probe attitudes that people already have.

They're looking at the epicenter of people's behavior. Things that are close to their -- the case, from the evidence, the "Field & Stream," the body found in the San Francisco Bay, affairs would be, you know, how they view Scott Peterson and what -- you know, what are the main things that are going to have an impact on the individual as to how they perceive the case.

KAGAN: Cynthia, what about the time commitment involved in serving on this jury? I think that would exclude a lot of people right off the bat.

COHEN: It will. That's the biggest threshold, is hardship. And we have that in just about every case that is over two weeks. This being five to six months, it's a real concern.

Because who can sit on a jury for fix to six months? You've got the unemployed, people in transition. You've got...

KAGAN: Retired people, perhaps.

COHEN: Retired. Housewives. And government workers. The government is very good at making sure people are able to serve on juries.

KAGAN: All right. Besides the time commitment, if you look at what the defense is looking for, what's the ideal juror for the defense?

COHEN: Well, the ideal juror for the defense is going to be somebody who's going to be very forgiving.

They're going to have to look at this case and look at this as not just a case about adultery, but a case about the evidence and what really happened here. And consider all of the evidence and the burden of proof.

So they're going to want people who are going to be very open- minded and very forgiving and are going to be very scrutinizing of the evidence. You know, I know that there was a similar body found in -- an eight-month pregnant woman found in the San Francisco Bay.

And so people who are going to look at the evidence and look at other things so that they aren't making up their mind right away...

KAGAN: Right. I think that part's kind of obvious. But when we talk about what the prosecution's looking for, is there a profile? Do you want a man? Do you want a woman? Is there a certain age? Is there a certain occupation?

COHEN: Well, people tend to work at stereotypes real quickly, but it doesn't always prove out to be the stereotype. And I know we'd always like to find ideal. We sort of look for variables that are going to be predictors.

And maybe women are more forgiving, but maybe men are more accepting of the types of behavior that Scott has had in the past.

So I think it's going to be not so much men or women, but, really, how -- what their attitudes are about Scott and how they perceive him. There was lying in his relationship with his wife. So they're going to be looking at whether they think he's deceptive or not. And then the evidence and how trusting they are of the evidence. So the profiles really are how people's attitudes are looking that at evidence.

KAGAN: So more of the nuances, which keeps people like you, jury consultants, in business. Not so simple as to be so cut and dry.

COHEN: It would be nice if it were simple. But I think it's the make up of each person that has a way of influencing how we perceive each and every case.

KAGAN: Got it. Cynthia Cohen, jury consultant, joining us this morning from Los Angeles. Thank you, Cynthia.

COHEN: Thank you.

KAGAN: There's a new battleground in the gay marriage fight. That's because another major city is allowing same sex marriage.

Now there's a big push for the biggest city in America to get on board with that. We're going live to rally in New York City in just a moment.

And later, the president opens his campaign war chest and takes aim at the Democrats. We'll show you a new series of television ads that Mr. Bush hopes will help him keep the White House.

CNN LIVE TODAY is back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Portland, Oregon, has issued marriage licenses to 400 gay and lesbian couples. But Oregon's governor warns the obvious: the licenses may not be legal. He is asking the attorney general to issue an advisory opinion.

Conservatives plan a court challenge or ballot initiative to stop those marriages.

The mayor of New Paltz, New York, pleaded not guilty last night to charges related to gay and lesbian marriages that he has performed in his town. Jason West remains defiant; he says he plans to perform even more marriages this weekend.

And same sex couples lined up at New York City hall this morning, demanding marriage licenses. They were turned away, however.

Our Adaora Udoji join us with the latest, live from New York City.

Good morning.

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. There was a big group here this morning, gay and lesbian groups, part of a coalition called New York Marriage Now. More than a dozen groups that have actually been mobilized in the past week or so came to rally here outside of the municipal building in downtown New York City.

They came with a two-part plan. Not only were they rallying, bringing out the people, which they hope will put pressure on Mayor Bloomberg to take a stand on the issue, but also to show that New York and the country that the issue is not going away.

But they also came to apply for marriage licenses. Dozens of gay and lesbian couples went upstairs to the clerk's office this morning, trying to apply for a license.

As you said, they were swiftly turned away, given a packet of about 50 pages outlining the law as the attorney general concluded yesterday, that says New York law does prohibit same sex marriages.

Although, he also concluded that there were some issues raised by the marriage laws in this state, some equal protection issues.

And that brings us to the second part of the rally today, which was they purposely wanted to go upstairs to the clerk's office, get denied, not wanting to purposely get denied but wanted to have that proof of getting denied a marriage license from the city of New York so that then they can take the question of marriage, same sex marriages to the courts.

Here's what so many of the couples had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to have marriage, something that everybody recognizes, understands, and protects, throughout the country if we leave the city, if we leave the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the man that I love, this is the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with, and why should I be denied a basic right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UDOJI: Now, many today, including those organizers, say they will keep coming back. They are trying to force politicians to confront this issue. And they know that they have a very long battle ahead. At least they anticipate a very long battle ahead -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Adaora Udoji in New York City. Thank you, Adaora.

You can count on one hand the number of local governments in the U.S. that are permitting same sex marriages. The issue, though, has become a passionate topic of national conversation.

Chuck Muth is president of Citizen Outreach. That is a group that opposes same sex marriages. He joins us in Baltimore. And in our New York bureau, Michael Adams with the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Gentlemen, good morning, thank you for being here with us.

CHUCK MUTH, CITIZEN OUTREACH: Thank you for having us.

MICHAEL ADAMS, LAMBDA LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND: Thank you.

KAGAN: I want to start with this decision that's coming out of the attorney general, the state attorney general of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who basically came out and said, "Well, you can't get married here in New York state, same sex couples. But if you get married somewhere else, New York state must honor those marriages."

Michael, let's go ahead and start with you. What do you think about that?

ADAMS: Well, actually what we view the attorney general's opinion as a step forward because in fact, what he's said is under the current law as it's written, same sex marriages are not permitted, but, he said, that that law raises serious constitutional questions that will be resolved by the courts.

And then, of course, he went ahead and said that any gay or lesbian couple that gets married legally outside of New York should have their marriage recognized here. New York is the first state in the country to take that affirmative position.

So it's a step forward in a continuing movement that we're seeing of many thousands of gay and lesbian couples being married all across this country. So we're actually quite pleased.

KAGAN: Well, and Chuck that is the next step, and what a lot of people are concerned about -- it might not happen in their own state, but would certain people's own states have to honor something that happens in other states? What do you think about Eliot Spitzer's decision?

MUTH: Well, I think that's one man's opinion. And others can and certainly do disagree whether or not other states would have to recognize gay marriages performed in, say, Massachusetts, when those become possible.

And that's what this debate is all about, is whether or not the state should have the right to determine that. And I actually believe that New York, if properly decided through the people or their representatives decide that they want to recognize gay marriages from another state, then that should be their right to do so.

I just don't think we should have a national blanket policy that tells people in New York that they can't do that, even if they wanted to.

KAGAN: Right. And so that's how we get to the place of many people, or some people, pushing for a constitutional amendment, because they are afraid of one state's decision carrying over into their state.

Do you think that that's needed, a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage?

MUTH: Absolutely not. Our position is there's two aspects of this issue. One is there's the issue of gay rights, which a lot of folks want to fight this on, and the other is the issue of marriage.

Our position is, and my position is that this is also about the Constitution. And as far as that's concerned, we should defend it, not amend it. I mean, to put a constitutional amendment in, defining what marriage is, into our United States Constitution is akin to saying you have ants in the house so let's burn the house down.

It's just an overreaction to a social problem that doesn't belong there, and we would oppose that kind of constitutional amendment.

KAGAN: And Michael, let me ask you this. It seems like for the gay rights world there have been a lot of victories over the last couple of weeks. Is there concern, though, this is all going too quickly, that this could lead to backlash?

ADAMS: You know, in every civil rights movement when there's progress, there's a certain amount of backlash. But we are very confident that the American people are increasingly seeing that gay and lesbian couples are no different from anybody else. They lead the same lives, and they need the same rights and protections.

And as the American people are allowed to see literally thousands of gay couples marrying across the country, they're seeing that the sky is not falling in. They're seeing that these are simply loving families just like everybody else.

We are very confident that we will win, because we're on side of what's equal, and what's fair and what's right.

KAGAN: And Chuck, let me give the final question, the final thought to you. Do you think that that's true? Do you agree with Michael that people are going to become more accepting or that this is raising the stakes and people less accepting?

MUTH: No, I think it's going to make -- it's making people less accepting. It's causing them to dig their heels in, because I mean, they're breaking the law.

They were making progress in Massachusetts through legal channels, and that's the way it should go. For these mayors and local officials to be flouting the law, does not do the cause any good, I don't think.

KAGAN: Michael Adams, Chuck Muth, gentlemen, thanks for the conversation this morning. Appreciate it.

ADAMS: Thank you.

KAGAN: Now a scene that you probably remember. Today we have some good news for this wayward sea lion. Big mystery with the lion.

And later, how does $3 a gallon sound? Prices at the pump are climbing on the West Coast. We'll show you what you can expect coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A wayward sea lion is back home in the Pacific this morning.

Chippy, the 321-pound male was found in the San Joaquin last month. If you don't know California, that is about an hour's drive away from the ocean. Authorities still don't know how Chippy got so far from home.

Also part of the mystery, Chippy had been shot. But who done it is a mystery as well.

But Chippy, on his way. You go, Chippy.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: The war chest is open; the gloves are off; the battle of television has started. The Bush camp unleashes its first series of television ads.

Your complete campaign coverage is next, when CNN LIVE TODAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Let's check the headlines at this hour.

The head of U.S. Central Command, General John Abizaid, tell the Senate Armed Services Committee that more than 180 people were killed in begin attacks in Iraq on Tuesday.

The U.S. believes the suspected terror ringleader Abu Musab al Zarqawi was behind the attacks. The U.S. military official tells CNN evidence has been uncovered linking al Zarqawi and former Saddam intelligence operatives.

An Egyptian official confirms that the brother of Osama bin Laden's top aide is in custody. And adds the man has been in custody for several years. It's not known under what charges Muhammed al- Zawahiri is being held, but he's believed to have been active in the Islamic underground in the last decade.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





to Disarm; Jury Consultant Explains How Peterson's Jury to be Picked; New York City Protestors Urge Gay Marriage Licenses>


Aired March 4, 2004 - 11:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, ANCHOR: It is 11 a.m. on the East Coast, 8 a.m. on the West Coast. From CNN center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.
Up first this hour on CNN, a delay in deciding the fate of domestic icon Martha Stewart. The jury was supposed to resume deliberations last hour, but some jurors have been delayed in getting to the courthouse.

Our Mary Snow wasn't delayed. She's right outside the courthouse, where she's supposed to be, in New York City this morning.

Mary, good morning.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Daryn. Good morning.

Yes, a subway accident delayed four of the jurors. So things starting a little bit later than had been anticipated.

But certainly, the jurors have their work cut out for them. If there's anything to be read by the notes jurors sent to the judge yesterday, it's that they are doing a thorough job.

Late yesterday, they asked for at least six pieces of evidence from the judge, including some testimony from Doug Faneuil. That's the government's star witness. And he testified for four days on the stand.

The jurors wanted testimony about December 27, 2001. That's the day that Martha Stewart sold her ImClone stock.

They also asked for a chart of phone calls that was made up, records from Martha Stewart's assistant. Also, phone records from her defendant, Peter Bacanovic.

So a lot of work to go through ahead on this, the second day of deliberations. The jury getting the case late yesterday morning after the judge instructed them.

There are four counts against Martha Stewart, including conspiracy, obstruction of justice, making false statements. Five counts against Peter Bacanovic, her co-defendant. Each of these counts carries a maximum of five years prison and a $250,000 fine -- Daryn.

KAGAN: So Mary, when do they expect court to get under way? SNOW: Very shortly. There was some words that the subway accident had been -- I guess that things -- the trains were moving once again. So we expect things to get under way pretty soon this morning.

KAGAN: All right. Mary Snow, we will check back with you in lower Manhattan. Thank you for that.

The process of picking a jury to hear the murder case against Scott Peterson begins today in California.

About 200 prospective jurors will fill out 30-page questionnaires. The questions will range from whether they read "Field & Stream" to whether they've ever had an affair.

Scott Peterson is charged with two counts of murder in the deaths of his wife, Laci, and her unborn son. He insists that he is innocent. We'll have more on jury selection in just a moment.

Other legal news now. The only man convicted so far in the September 11 attacks will get a new trial. The Moroccan man was convict a year ago in Germany of assisting some of the 9/11 hijackers when they lived in Hamburg. He was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

A German court today overturned the conviction and ordered a new trial. Defense lawyers argued he didn't receive a fair trial because the U.S. denied him access to a key witness.

And in Transom (ph), South Carolina, a man held as an enemy combatant in the Navy brig has finally met with defense attorneys after almost two years. The meeting was monitored by the government, which means there was no attorney/client confidentiality.

Jose Padilla has been incommunicado since June of 2002. He's accused of terrorist activity, but no charges have been filed. The Supreme Court has agreed to hear Padilla's case in April.

And now to the crisis in Haiti. Rebel leader Guy Phillipe is backtracking, and now says he and his band of followers will disarm.

More now from CNN's Lucia Newman, who is in Port-au-Prince.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How fast things change in Haiti.

Wednesday morning, it was the U.S. Marines who were calling the shots. The very same place where the day before Haitian insurgents had set up their headquarters and declared themselves in command of the streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very conscious about this situation (ph).

NEWMAN: So was almost everyone else, when rebel commander Guy Phillipe announced he and his men were laying down their weapons. Trying to save face, he explained his about-face.

GUY PHILIPPIE, REBEL COMMANDER: This morning, we had a meeting with the general here, Jamaican general, and he assured us that his troops will take care of the people's security.

NEWMAN: Phillipe says he and his men, now no longer so visible, are awaiting order from Haiti's interim president to hand in their weapons, intense pressure from Washington apparently having forced his hand.

The Marines patrol downtown. While just a few blocks away, Haitian police were fired upon and shot back. It's not clear by whom, but armed rebels loyal to Haiti's former president are still at large.

And the power vacuum left by Aristide's departure is making Haiti more unstable by the day, with the former opposition demanding a new prime minister and government be named immediately.

CHARLES BAKER, DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM: When you're being attacked, nothing is ever fast enough. Go downtown and see the chaos and the pillage and -- I mean, we've lost over $100 million.

NEWMAN (on camera): If you ask most Haitians what's the most urgent thing right now, they'll say security. The responsibility for that now falls squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. Marines and other international peacekeepers, a daunting task at that.

Lucia Newman, CNN, Port-au-Prince.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Let's get back to the Scott Peterson case. Both sides have hired consultant to help them decide which potential jurors they should choose.

Cynthia Cohen is a jury consultant, and she's in our L.A. bureau this morning. We decided to pick her brain about how you pick a jury for this trial.

Good morning.

CYNTHIA COHEN, JURY CONSULTANT: Good morning.

KAGAN: First, you've got to help me here with this 30-page questionnaire. Questions like, have you ever had an affair? Do you have bumper stickers on your car? And do you read "Field & Stream" magazine? Help me make sense of all that.

COHEN: Well, what they want to do is they want to find questions that will probe attitudes that people already have.

They're looking at the epicenter of people's behavior. Things that are close to their -- the case, from the evidence, the "Field & Stream," the body found in the San Francisco Bay, affairs would be, you know, how they view Scott Peterson and what -- you know, what are the main things that are going to have an impact on the individual as to how they perceive the case.

KAGAN: Cynthia, what about the time commitment involved in serving on this jury? I think that would exclude a lot of people right off the bat.

COHEN: It will. That's the biggest threshold, is hardship. And we have that in just about every case that is over two weeks. This being five to six months, it's a real concern.

Because who can sit on a jury for fix to six months? You've got the unemployed, people in transition. You've got...

KAGAN: Retired people, perhaps.

COHEN: Retired. Housewives. And government workers. The government is very good at making sure people are able to serve on juries.

KAGAN: All right. Besides the time commitment, if you look at what the defense is looking for, what's the ideal juror for the defense?

COHEN: Well, the ideal juror for the defense is going to be somebody who's going to be very forgiving.

They're going to have to look at this case and look at this as not just a case about adultery, but a case about the evidence and what really happened here. And consider all of the evidence and the burden of proof.

So they're going to want people who are going to be very open- minded and very forgiving and are going to be very scrutinizing of the evidence. You know, I know that there was a similar body found in -- an eight-month pregnant woman found in the San Francisco Bay.

And so people who are going to look at the evidence and look at other things so that they aren't making up their mind right away...

KAGAN: Right. I think that part's kind of obvious. But when we talk about what the prosecution's looking for, is there a profile? Do you want a man? Do you want a woman? Is there a certain age? Is there a certain occupation?

COHEN: Well, people tend to work at stereotypes real quickly, but it doesn't always prove out to be the stereotype. And I know we'd always like to find ideal. We sort of look for variables that are going to be predictors.

And maybe women are more forgiving, but maybe men are more accepting of the types of behavior that Scott has had in the past.

So I think it's going to be not so much men or women, but, really, how -- what their attitudes are about Scott and how they perceive him. There was lying in his relationship with his wife. So they're going to be looking at whether they think he's deceptive or not. And then the evidence and how trusting they are of the evidence. So the profiles really are how people's attitudes are looking that at evidence.

KAGAN: So more of the nuances, which keeps people like you, jury consultants, in business. Not so simple as to be so cut and dry.

COHEN: It would be nice if it were simple. But I think it's the make up of each person that has a way of influencing how we perceive each and every case.

KAGAN: Got it. Cynthia Cohen, jury consultant, joining us this morning from Los Angeles. Thank you, Cynthia.

COHEN: Thank you.

KAGAN: There's a new battleground in the gay marriage fight. That's because another major city is allowing same sex marriage.

Now there's a big push for the biggest city in America to get on board with that. We're going live to rally in New York City in just a moment.

And later, the president opens his campaign war chest and takes aim at the Democrats. We'll show you a new series of television ads that Mr. Bush hopes will help him keep the White House.

CNN LIVE TODAY is back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Portland, Oregon, has issued marriage licenses to 400 gay and lesbian couples. But Oregon's governor warns the obvious: the licenses may not be legal. He is asking the attorney general to issue an advisory opinion.

Conservatives plan a court challenge or ballot initiative to stop those marriages.

The mayor of New Paltz, New York, pleaded not guilty last night to charges related to gay and lesbian marriages that he has performed in his town. Jason West remains defiant; he says he plans to perform even more marriages this weekend.

And same sex couples lined up at New York City hall this morning, demanding marriage licenses. They were turned away, however.

Our Adaora Udoji join us with the latest, live from New York City.

Good morning.

ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. There was a big group here this morning, gay and lesbian groups, part of a coalition called New York Marriage Now. More than a dozen groups that have actually been mobilized in the past week or so came to rally here outside of the municipal building in downtown New York City.

They came with a two-part plan. Not only were they rallying, bringing out the people, which they hope will put pressure on Mayor Bloomberg to take a stand on the issue, but also to show that New York and the country that the issue is not going away.

But they also came to apply for marriage licenses. Dozens of gay and lesbian couples went upstairs to the clerk's office this morning, trying to apply for a license.

As you said, they were swiftly turned away, given a packet of about 50 pages outlining the law as the attorney general concluded yesterday, that says New York law does prohibit same sex marriages.

Although, he also concluded that there were some issues raised by the marriage laws in this state, some equal protection issues.

And that brings us to the second part of the rally today, which was they purposely wanted to go upstairs to the clerk's office, get denied, not wanting to purposely get denied but wanted to have that proof of getting denied a marriage license from the city of New York so that then they can take the question of marriage, same sex marriages to the courts.

Here's what so many of the couples had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to have marriage, something that everybody recognizes, understands, and protects, throughout the country if we leave the city, if we leave the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the man that I love, this is the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with, and why should I be denied a basic right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UDOJI: Now, many today, including those organizers, say they will keep coming back. They are trying to force politicians to confront this issue. And they know that they have a very long battle ahead. At least they anticipate a very long battle ahead -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Adaora Udoji in New York City. Thank you, Adaora.

You can count on one hand the number of local governments in the U.S. that are permitting same sex marriages. The issue, though, has become a passionate topic of national conversation.

Chuck Muth is president of Citizen Outreach. That is a group that opposes same sex marriages. He joins us in Baltimore. And in our New York bureau, Michael Adams with the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Gentlemen, good morning, thank you for being here with us.

CHUCK MUTH, CITIZEN OUTREACH: Thank you for having us.

MICHAEL ADAMS, LAMBDA LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND: Thank you.

KAGAN: I want to start with this decision that's coming out of the attorney general, the state attorney general of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who basically came out and said, "Well, you can't get married here in New York state, same sex couples. But if you get married somewhere else, New York state must honor those marriages."

Michael, let's go ahead and start with you. What do you think about that?

ADAMS: Well, actually what we view the attorney general's opinion as a step forward because in fact, what he's said is under the current law as it's written, same sex marriages are not permitted, but, he said, that that law raises serious constitutional questions that will be resolved by the courts.

And then, of course, he went ahead and said that any gay or lesbian couple that gets married legally outside of New York should have their marriage recognized here. New York is the first state in the country to take that affirmative position.

So it's a step forward in a continuing movement that we're seeing of many thousands of gay and lesbian couples being married all across this country. So we're actually quite pleased.

KAGAN: Well, and Chuck that is the next step, and what a lot of people are concerned about -- it might not happen in their own state, but would certain people's own states have to honor something that happens in other states? What do you think about Eliot Spitzer's decision?

MUTH: Well, I think that's one man's opinion. And others can and certainly do disagree whether or not other states would have to recognize gay marriages performed in, say, Massachusetts, when those become possible.

And that's what this debate is all about, is whether or not the state should have the right to determine that. And I actually believe that New York, if properly decided through the people or their representatives decide that they want to recognize gay marriages from another state, then that should be their right to do so.

I just don't think we should have a national blanket policy that tells people in New York that they can't do that, even if they wanted to.

KAGAN: Right. And so that's how we get to the place of many people, or some people, pushing for a constitutional amendment, because they are afraid of one state's decision carrying over into their state.

Do you think that that's needed, a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage?

MUTH: Absolutely not. Our position is there's two aspects of this issue. One is there's the issue of gay rights, which a lot of folks want to fight this on, and the other is the issue of marriage.

Our position is, and my position is that this is also about the Constitution. And as far as that's concerned, we should defend it, not amend it. I mean, to put a constitutional amendment in, defining what marriage is, into our United States Constitution is akin to saying you have ants in the house so let's burn the house down.

It's just an overreaction to a social problem that doesn't belong there, and we would oppose that kind of constitutional amendment.

KAGAN: And Michael, let me ask you this. It seems like for the gay rights world there have been a lot of victories over the last couple of weeks. Is there concern, though, this is all going too quickly, that this could lead to backlash?

ADAMS: You know, in every civil rights movement when there's progress, there's a certain amount of backlash. But we are very confident that the American people are increasingly seeing that gay and lesbian couples are no different from anybody else. They lead the same lives, and they need the same rights and protections.

And as the American people are allowed to see literally thousands of gay couples marrying across the country, they're seeing that the sky is not falling in. They're seeing that these are simply loving families just like everybody else.

We are very confident that we will win, because we're on side of what's equal, and what's fair and what's right.

KAGAN: And Chuck, let me give the final question, the final thought to you. Do you think that that's true? Do you agree with Michael that people are going to become more accepting or that this is raising the stakes and people less accepting?

MUTH: No, I think it's going to make -- it's making people less accepting. It's causing them to dig their heels in, because I mean, they're breaking the law.

They were making progress in Massachusetts through legal channels, and that's the way it should go. For these mayors and local officials to be flouting the law, does not do the cause any good, I don't think.

KAGAN: Michael Adams, Chuck Muth, gentlemen, thanks for the conversation this morning. Appreciate it.

ADAMS: Thank you.

KAGAN: Now a scene that you probably remember. Today we have some good news for this wayward sea lion. Big mystery with the lion.

And later, how does $3 a gallon sound? Prices at the pump are climbing on the West Coast. We'll show you what you can expect coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A wayward sea lion is back home in the Pacific this morning.

Chippy, the 321-pound male was found in the San Joaquin last month. If you don't know California, that is about an hour's drive away from the ocean. Authorities still don't know how Chippy got so far from home.

Also part of the mystery, Chippy had been shot. But who done it is a mystery as well.

But Chippy, on his way. You go, Chippy.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: The war chest is open; the gloves are off; the battle of television has started. The Bush camp unleashes its first series of television ads.

Your complete campaign coverage is next, when CNN LIVE TODAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Let's check the headlines at this hour.

The head of U.S. Central Command, General John Abizaid, tell the Senate Armed Services Committee that more than 180 people were killed in begin attacks in Iraq on Tuesday.

The U.S. believes the suspected terror ringleader Abu Musab al Zarqawi was behind the attacks. The U.S. military official tells CNN evidence has been uncovered linking al Zarqawi and former Saddam intelligence operatives.

An Egyptian official confirms that the brother of Osama bin Laden's top aide is in custody. And adds the man has been in custody for several years. It's not known under what charges Muhammed al- Zawahiri is being held, but he's believed to have been active in the Islamic underground in the last decade.

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