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CNN Live Sunday
Afghastan's Countryside Still Controlled By Warlords, Taliban; Georgia Legislation Would Make It Harder To Get Divorce; Iraq Insurgents Fire 7 Rockets At Coalition Provisional Authority
Aired March 07, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: CNN SUNDAY is ahead, but first, we've got these headlines. The atmosphere is tense tonight in Central Baghdad after an 11 rocket barrage that damaged the Al Rashid Hotel. The missiles fell short of the conference center where the interim Iraqi constitution is to be signed tomorrow.
Witnesses say gun fire during a protest in Port-au-Prince Haiti today killed 2 police officers, a civilian and a Spanish journalist. The gun shots erupted near the presidential palace where a crowd was demonstrating against former president Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
The Justice Department isn't commenting on the condition of Attorney General John Ashcroft. He's been in Washington in a hospital for three days. Doctors are treating him for a severe case of gall stone pancreaitis.
Crews have now righted that water taxi that capsized with 25 people aboard yesterday in Baltimore's Inner Harbor. One of the 22 people rescued later died. There are still three people missing and presumed dead. We're waiting for a live news conference from the NTSB in Baltimore. We'll bring it to you live when that happens.
Hello, I'm Martin Savidge in for Carol Lin. Welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Also this hour, remember Afghanistan, a reality check on why it is still so important and what's going right and wrong for the U.S. there.
Plus, the fight over gay marriage is leading some states down a different legislative path. See if you agree with the theory.
And news every parent of a young child will want to hear. Some big changes could be coming in the way that doctors treat your kids' ear infections. Changes you might not like.
But we begin in Iraq this hour. Just hours before the country's interim constitution is to be signed, explosions rocked Baghdad. They were centered near where the members of the Iraqi governing council are set to approve the document. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in the Iraqi Capitol. He joins us with a live update. Good evening to you, Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martin. Those explosions happened several hours ago rocking the Iraqi Capital as, apparently, according to coalition sources, were caused by a basically a toyota SUV which was parked about 1,000 meters -- rather 1,000 feet away from the Rashid Hotel, equipped with homemade launchers, fired somewhere between six and eight rockets in the direction of the green zone. At least five of them hitting the Rashid hotel. The Rashid hotel, of course, has been hit before in a similar attack back in October.
Now, according to coalition officials, one U.S. civilian contractor was wounded in that attack. Several hours later, we heard two large explosions within the space of an hour. That was the U.S. military conducting controlled explosions of the vehicle from which those rockets were fired.
Now, of course, the Rashid hotel as you Martin know, is right across the street from the convention center where Monday it is expected that members of the Iraqi governing council will sign, finally, the interim constitution.
Now, that had been twice delayed the signing. The first time when, on Tuesday, two -- a series of suicide bombings took place in Baghdad and Karbala, leaving more than 180 people dead. The second time, it was delayed because at the last moment, five Shiite members of that council raised oxs to a clause in the constitution that would have effectively granted voters in three Kurdish provinces veto power over a permanent constitution that's going to be put to a referendum sometime later next year. Now, they've apparently decided to drop those objections and the Shiite members say they'll go ahead and sign the document.
Now, once that document is signed, it clears the way for the handover of power from the U.S.-led coalition to an Iraqi government. That is scheduled for the 30th of June -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Ben, I imagine, given the past 24 hours there, there must be grave security concerns about what the situation is going to be like around the issue of the signing.
WEDEMAN: Those security concerns were intent before today's event. In the lead-up to Friday's aborted signing ceremony, we heard from several coalition officials saying that they were concerned, because this is a ceremony that was -- was going to be attended -- actually was attended by not only the members of the Iraqi governing council, but senior coalition officials, diplomats, VIPs and, of course, the journalists as well. And this would have been a prime target. An ideal target for anyone who wanted to really make -- take a smack at the coalition.
So they have increased security as much as they can. But when it comes to this sort of attack that we saw today, it's very difficult to prevent -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad. Thank you very much.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says the negotiations over Iraq's interim constitution are a great example of democracy at work. The signing ceremony was to take place, as you heard, on Friday, but Shiite council members objected to a clause in the constitution, a specific clause. They now say they are ready to approve it. Paul Bremer says the back and forth is to be expected. He spoke with Wolf Blitzer today on "CNN'S LATE EDITION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: The fundamental issue is the protection of minority rights, whether they're Kurds or Shias or Sunnies or someone on the wrong end of a vote. Democracy is not just about elections and majority rule. It's also about protecting the minorities who may be, as they are in our case, temporary minorities. The Democrats are in power and then they're out. The Republicans are in power and then they're out. Democracy really does depend on the protection of minority rights. At the bottom, that's the question involved here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Coming up up later on CNN LIVE SUNDAY, Iraq isn't the only hot spot for U.S. troops. Thousands are on duty in Afghanistan. Have they and their mission been forgotten? We'll ask the senior editor of TIME.com.
Well, turning now to U.S. politics. The events in Iraq will almost certainly affect the presidential campaign and election. CNN's Dana Bash joins us from Crawford, Texas, near the president's ranch with more on that. Good evening, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Marty. And the White House isn't reacting to the latest attacks in Baghdad but certainly, as you said, Iraq is big on the campaign trail. Particularly this weekend. Both the president and Senator John Kerry, his Democratic rival, used the weekend radio addresses to address the issue of Iraq and the situation there.
And Senator Kerry has essentially been saying that he has been trying to get a sense what was his policy would be, should he be president, on how to deal with the situation in Iraq even as he travels arounded a slams the president for going to war he says, much too soon.
Now, Senator Kerry was traveling in Jackson, Mississippi today and said he's thinking about sending a group of trusted advisers, actually to go to Iraq to get a sense of what is going on on the ground. He also said there's a remote possibility he might go himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I haven't ruled it out. It's just not on the front burner right now and I'd prefer for the moment to get some assessments. If I find from those assessments that there may be a real reason to go further, I could follow up. I haven't ruled out the potential of any foreign travel at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now the Senator also said he wants to be careful not to make any trips, look too political. As you san imagine, the Bush campaign and the spokesman for the Bush campaign said that's exactly what any such mission would look like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY CAMPAIGN: I think the political question is touchy. Sean Penn went to Iraq. Hillary Clinton went over Thanksgiving. So, I think it's fine. It's just it's very close to politics. Are you going to use it for policy purposes to make better decisions and perhaps maybe next time vote for that war supplemental, or are you going to become a little more political with the information you get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the Bush campaign has been hitting John Kerry hard as somebody who flip-flops on the issues, saying for example, he voted for a resolution giving the president the ability to go to war in Iraq and has been campaigning against it.
As for John Kerry, he is simply saying the president misled him and misled Americans on the intelligence that really led him and led Senator Kerry to agreeing to give the president the ability to go to war -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: CNN's Dana Bash, reporting live from Crawford, Texas. Thank you.
Now to the grim search in Baltimore's Harbor. Divers looking for three people still missing after yesterday's water taxi accident. Dogs trained to find submerged bodies are at the scene. They may be on to something. Our Kathleen Koch is also there -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, the grim toll tonight remains one dead, seven hospitalized and three missing: a man, woman and a child. And the dual focus here in Baltimore today finding out just what happened and finding passengers' remains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): All day, rescue vessels and helicopters searched the mouth of Baltimore's Inner Harbor for signs of the missing passengers. By late afternoon, divers were lowered into the zero visibility waters, near two buoys identified by certainly on- board doing teams.
CHIEF WILLIAM GOODWIN, BALITMORE FIRE DEPT.: We've had some indicators from the search dogs in that area so we're backing that up with intense researches.
KOCH: A large crane was brought in to right the water taxi that had been towed in, examined and photographed by investigators. The National Transportation Safety Board is interviewing passengers, witnesses and crew. One of the risks said to be a very key focus of the investigation. Another question, whether the ferry company had properly prepared passengers for such an emergency. ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NTSB CHAIRMAN: Did people know how to help themselves when the accident was looming? Did they have access to the life jackets? Did they know where they were? Were they properly informed.
KOCH: Navy reservists first on the scene Saturday described driving rain, phenomenal swells. The Navy releasing photos of the passengers' dramatic rescue.
DAVID ROMANO, U.S. NAVY RESCUE: They were pretty upset, screaming, hollering that they had people underneath the boat that were trapped.
KOCH: Half a dozen sailors dove in to find them.
CMDR. PETE DECKER, U.S. NAVY RESCUE: It was very cold, it was very rough. There was a current. There's not a high concern for one's person. You want to save people, save as many people as possible.
KOCH: Tourists boarding harbor water taxies the day after the tragedy had mixed emotions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little bit nervous, but it's not going to deter me from getting where I want to go, but I will know where the life jackets are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is probably the safest day to be riding, the day after a problem. I'm sure everybody here is watching things very carefully.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: The National Transportation Safety Board in a briefing just about 15 minutes ago does say that everyone they've interviewed so far, including the captain and the mate are cooperating. Officials are conducting toxicology tests on blood and urine samples taken from the captain, looking for the possible presence of drugs or alcohol. They expect to do the same sorts of tests on the mate.
The vessel has been towed away from the location. It will be put in dry dock in NTSB investigators will be examining the propulsion system, the steering and the hull they're all functioning and intact. The NTSB says at this point, the one system they checked, the steering system seems to be functioning -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Kathleen Koch, live in Baltimore. Thank you for that update.
It was a deadly Sunday in Gaza. Israeli forces clashed with armed Palestinians. We'll have the details right after the break.
And it was the first front in the war on terrorism. So, have conditions for democracy in Afghanistan improved since U.S. troops first arrived? We'll talk with the senior editor from TIME.com about the magazine's in-depth look at that nation. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Top stories this hour. At least four people killed when gun fire erupts in a demonstration in Haiti's capital. A small rocket barrage hits Baghdad, no serious injuries reported. And divers still search for three persons missing after a water taxi capsized in Baltimore harbor yesterday.
In Gaza today, more deadly violence. Israeli forces raided 2 Palestinian refugee camps, killing at least 14 Palestinians and wounding about 50 others. That according to Palestinian sources.
The militant group Hamas said nine of the dead were militants and the rest civilians, including three boys under the age of 14. CNN's Chris Burns has details from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the funerals, vows of revenge, promises of more bloodshed after the latest Israeli raid in Gaza. After intense firefights between Palestinian militants and Israeli forces that rolled into two refugee camps in central Gaza before dawn.
The Israeli army says its tanks and armored vehicles backed by Apache helicopters came in search of terrorists infrastructure, the militants and their weapons, which is exactly what they faced.
Israeli forces say the militants fired more than a dozen anti- tank rockets, along with rocket propelled grenades and a hail of bullets, and from Palestinian youth, a hail of stones.
Palestinian hospital sources say civilian was among the dead, including at least three children.
(on camera): The Israeli incursion comes just a day after a three-car attack by Palestinian militants on the border crossing with northern Israel far over my shoulder. The attack, however, was stopped right here at the Palestinian checkpoint.
(voice-over): Four Palestinians died along with two Palestinian policemen at the checkpoint. The Israelis say that helps justify their policy of repeated incursions in Gaza.
AVI PAZNER, ISRAELI GOVT. SPOKSEMAN: Our operation is purely on an ongoing base. We are fighting now a wave of terrorism.
BURNS: Calling for help from the international community, the Palestinian authority says the Israeli policy will only lead to more violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Israelis are still playing with fire.
BURNS: Expecting more fire from Palestinian militants, Israel was under tight security as it celebrated the Jewish holiday of Pareem. Parades of traditional rejoicing. While a short drive away, a different type of parade, focused on revenge.
Chris Burns, CNN, in the Gaza strip.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Now to Afghanistan where its new army is training for combat. Soldiers fired rocket propelled grenades and machine guns last week as part of a military exercise. The U.S. is a strong backer of the Afghanistan army. It is seen as a key, actually the key to helping president Hamid Karzai rule that country. He currently has little control in provinces dominated by warlords and militias.
The world focused on Afghanistan after, of course, the September 11 attacks. The country was at the very heart of the U.S. war on terror, but the mission seems to have been eclipsed by other conflicts and hot spots. Has Afghanistan been forgotten. Well, we asked Tony Karon. He's the senior editor of TIME.com and he joins us from New York. Good evening to you sir. Thanks for being with us, Tony.
TONY KARON, TIME.COM: Good evening, Martin.
SAVIDGE: What prompted you to write this article and look indepth at Afghanistan as you have?
KARON: I think, obviously, Afghanistan has been eclipsed, as you say, in the focus on Iraq. And I think it's worth looking in, particularly as we come into an election season here in the U.S. where the president would obviously like to have an Afghanistan on the road to democracy to show the U.S. electorate in terms of his achievements in the war on terror and it was really a case of us doing scorecard on how things are going.
SAVIDGE: And as you did that, and as you reflect back, is the glass half empty, half full? Where do we stand?
KARON: Well, it's very hard to make a glass half full case. At the moment, Afghanistan what we've created in Afghanistan is a situation that's inherently unstable. And it's unlikely to get that much more stable without a substantial increase in the kind of commitment of foreign forces that we have in Afghanistan right now. And frankly, we're not seeing that being very likely. So it's hard to be terribly optimistic right now.
SAVIDGE: Well, we also know that the president of Afghanistan rules pretty much just in Kabul. What's being done as far as spreading the authority of that government elsewhere?
KARON: Exactly. As you say, not enough. You pointed in your clip earlier to the new Afghan National Army. It's a case of point. It's comprised of some 5,700 men. Is has something like a 20 percent desertion rate. It doesn't venture that far out of the capital. Nor do the foreign peacekeeps sent by NATO, a force of some 7,000. Which goes to why Karzai is known in some circles as little more than the mayor of Kabul.
The U.S. has 11,000 troops in Afghanistan. But those are there primarily to hunt down al Qaeda and remnants of the Taliban. And the job of securing the countryside isn't being taken up by anyone, so the countryside is in the hands of warlords on the one hand, who very much involved in opium production. And on the other hand, in the hands of the Taliban, which is believed now to control about one third of rural Afghanistan.
SAVIDGE: Well, what were the opinions of the Afghans that you spoke to? Has their life improved? Do they see things as getting better in the future?
KARON: Well I think, obviously, life in the capital, in particular, has improved substantially, once the strictures of the Taliban, which is a very rural, radical movement, were removed. I think in the countryside, it's a bit more of a mixed case. People are happy to be rid of the Taliban in many cases. But they're not particularly happy with the kind of warlords that are ruling them.
The great hope, being that the election would kind of -- that that's scheduled for June would mark the beginning of a tunnaround. Unfortunately, only something about 9 percent of the electorate is being registered. Those are very likely to be too now be postponed. And really it's a case of both the Taliban and the warlords have an interesting in not seeing a Democrat election going ahead because it would dilute their power.
SAVIDGE: Tony Karon with TIME magazine.com. And the name of the article is "The Other War." Thank you very much for joining us. Looking at Afghanistan in the time that has passed. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Moving on, some Georgia lawmakers want to use the power of law to strengthen the bonds of marriage. We'll tell you just what they plan to do when CNN returns.
Then, still to come, if your children get an earache in the future, it might be harder to get them antibiotics. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Well, let's take a look at news across America. In Los Angeles, UCLA police aren't saying why they've arrested the director of a program that provides donated cadavers for medical research. The "L.A. Times" reports authorities were investigating whether employees stole body parts and sold them.
In Pokamoke City, Maryland, the discovery of avian flu has forced a commercial chicken farm to slaughter 328,000 birds. The same strain has turned up in 2 blocks in Delaware. The farm is under quarantine.
In Concorde, New Hampshire openly gay bishop Gene Robinson is now officially leaving the New Hampshire Episcopal Diocese. Today's investiture ceremony came more than six months after his confirmation sharply divided the denomination. The conservative minority is protesting Robinson's consecration. The American Anglican Council has condemned it as heresy, blasphemy and sin. Bishop Robinson had said he would certainly marry his gay partner if he could. As American struggles with the issue of same-sex marriage, nearly 50 percent of traditional marriages continue to fail. Gary Tuchman reports on a controversial step some states are trying to take to change that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESOPNDENT (voice-over): The weather makes the town of Duluth, Georgia, look more like Duluth, Minnesota. But that's just fine for David and Terri Savage and their two girls. It makes for a fun day for a husband and wife who have had a lot of trying days.
DAVID SAVAGE, HUSBAND: We basically could not stand to be in the same room with each other.
TUCHMAN: In a nation where nearly one out of two marriages end up in divorce, the Savages were on the verge of calling it quits.
TERRI SAVAGE, WIFE: I was dead set on it.
TUCHMAN: They were separated but sought help from friends, family, their church. Now...
T. SAVAGE: I and see anything that could ever break this marriage now.
TUCHMAN: Stories like this are reasons lobbyists are attempting actions like this.
JAMIE SELF, GEORGIA FAMILY COUNCIL: They want to try to protect marriage in hopes that you save people from some of the pain that they go through when families break down.
TUCHMAN: Georgia is one of several states where attempts are being made to make divorces harder to get. Legislation that has been passed by the state Senate would turn 30-day waiting periods for no- fault divorces into 120 days for couples without children, and 180 days for couples with children. In addition, couples with minor children would be required to get counseling.
PROF. WILLIAM GALSTON, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: Under many circumstances, children of divorce don't do as well as children who want to be able to grow up in intact families.
TUCHMAN: That research is generally acknowledged.
DEBBIE SEAGRAVES, GEORGIA ACLU: But if a couple's decided they want to dissolve their marriage for whatever reason, the idea the state knows best and they should have to wait and take classes is an imposition in many cases.
TUCHMAN: Not surprisingly, the Savages like the proposed law, but hope they never have to deal with it. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Duluth, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: A political demonstration in Haiti turns deadly. We'll tell you what happened after the break.
Plus, what is John Kerry looking for in a running mate? We'll run down the potential contenders and what they could many for Kerry's campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Taliban; Georgia Legislation Would Make It Harder To Get Divorce; Iraq Insurgents Fire 7 Rockets At Coalition Provisional Authority>
Aired March 7, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: CNN SUNDAY is ahead, but first, we've got these headlines. The atmosphere is tense tonight in Central Baghdad after an 11 rocket barrage that damaged the Al Rashid Hotel. The missiles fell short of the conference center where the interim Iraqi constitution is to be signed tomorrow.
Witnesses say gun fire during a protest in Port-au-Prince Haiti today killed 2 police officers, a civilian and a Spanish journalist. The gun shots erupted near the presidential palace where a crowd was demonstrating against former president Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
The Justice Department isn't commenting on the condition of Attorney General John Ashcroft. He's been in Washington in a hospital for three days. Doctors are treating him for a severe case of gall stone pancreaitis.
Crews have now righted that water taxi that capsized with 25 people aboard yesterday in Baltimore's Inner Harbor. One of the 22 people rescued later died. There are still three people missing and presumed dead. We're waiting for a live news conference from the NTSB in Baltimore. We'll bring it to you live when that happens.
Hello, I'm Martin Savidge in for Carol Lin. Welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Also this hour, remember Afghanistan, a reality check on why it is still so important and what's going right and wrong for the U.S. there.
Plus, the fight over gay marriage is leading some states down a different legislative path. See if you agree with the theory.
And news every parent of a young child will want to hear. Some big changes could be coming in the way that doctors treat your kids' ear infections. Changes you might not like.
But we begin in Iraq this hour. Just hours before the country's interim constitution is to be signed, explosions rocked Baghdad. They were centered near where the members of the Iraqi governing council are set to approve the document. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in the Iraqi Capitol. He joins us with a live update. Good evening to you, Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martin. Those explosions happened several hours ago rocking the Iraqi Capital as, apparently, according to coalition sources, were caused by a basically a toyota SUV which was parked about 1,000 meters -- rather 1,000 feet away from the Rashid Hotel, equipped with homemade launchers, fired somewhere between six and eight rockets in the direction of the green zone. At least five of them hitting the Rashid hotel. The Rashid hotel, of course, has been hit before in a similar attack back in October.
Now, according to coalition officials, one U.S. civilian contractor was wounded in that attack. Several hours later, we heard two large explosions within the space of an hour. That was the U.S. military conducting controlled explosions of the vehicle from which those rockets were fired.
Now, of course, the Rashid hotel as you Martin know, is right across the street from the convention center where Monday it is expected that members of the Iraqi governing council will sign, finally, the interim constitution.
Now, that had been twice delayed the signing. The first time when, on Tuesday, two -- a series of suicide bombings took place in Baghdad and Karbala, leaving more than 180 people dead. The second time, it was delayed because at the last moment, five Shiite members of that council raised oxs to a clause in the constitution that would have effectively granted voters in three Kurdish provinces veto power over a permanent constitution that's going to be put to a referendum sometime later next year. Now, they've apparently decided to drop those objections and the Shiite members say they'll go ahead and sign the document.
Now, once that document is signed, it clears the way for the handover of power from the U.S.-led coalition to an Iraqi government. That is scheduled for the 30th of June -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Ben, I imagine, given the past 24 hours there, there must be grave security concerns about what the situation is going to be like around the issue of the signing.
WEDEMAN: Those security concerns were intent before today's event. In the lead-up to Friday's aborted signing ceremony, we heard from several coalition officials saying that they were concerned, because this is a ceremony that was -- was going to be attended -- actually was attended by not only the members of the Iraqi governing council, but senior coalition officials, diplomats, VIPs and, of course, the journalists as well. And this would have been a prime target. An ideal target for anyone who wanted to really make -- take a smack at the coalition.
So they have increased security as much as they can. But when it comes to this sort of attack that we saw today, it's very difficult to prevent -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad. Thank you very much.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says the negotiations over Iraq's interim constitution are a great example of democracy at work. The signing ceremony was to take place, as you heard, on Friday, but Shiite council members objected to a clause in the constitution, a specific clause. They now say they are ready to approve it. Paul Bremer says the back and forth is to be expected. He spoke with Wolf Blitzer today on "CNN'S LATE EDITION."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: The fundamental issue is the protection of minority rights, whether they're Kurds or Shias or Sunnies or someone on the wrong end of a vote. Democracy is not just about elections and majority rule. It's also about protecting the minorities who may be, as they are in our case, temporary minorities. The Democrats are in power and then they're out. The Republicans are in power and then they're out. Democracy really does depend on the protection of minority rights. At the bottom, that's the question involved here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Coming up up later on CNN LIVE SUNDAY, Iraq isn't the only hot spot for U.S. troops. Thousands are on duty in Afghanistan. Have they and their mission been forgotten? We'll ask the senior editor of TIME.com.
Well, turning now to U.S. politics. The events in Iraq will almost certainly affect the presidential campaign and election. CNN's Dana Bash joins us from Crawford, Texas, near the president's ranch with more on that. Good evening, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Marty. And the White House isn't reacting to the latest attacks in Baghdad but certainly, as you said, Iraq is big on the campaign trail. Particularly this weekend. Both the president and Senator John Kerry, his Democratic rival, used the weekend radio addresses to address the issue of Iraq and the situation there.
And Senator Kerry has essentially been saying that he has been trying to get a sense what was his policy would be, should he be president, on how to deal with the situation in Iraq even as he travels arounded a slams the president for going to war he says, much too soon.
Now, Senator Kerry was traveling in Jackson, Mississippi today and said he's thinking about sending a group of trusted advisers, actually to go to Iraq to get a sense of what is going on on the ground. He also said there's a remote possibility he might go himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I haven't ruled it out. It's just not on the front burner right now and I'd prefer for the moment to get some assessments. If I find from those assessments that there may be a real reason to go further, I could follow up. I haven't ruled out the potential of any foreign travel at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now the Senator also said he wants to be careful not to make any trips, look too political. As you san imagine, the Bush campaign and the spokesman for the Bush campaign said that's exactly what any such mission would look like.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY HOLT, BUSH-CHENEY CAMPAIGN: I think the political question is touchy. Sean Penn went to Iraq. Hillary Clinton went over Thanksgiving. So, I think it's fine. It's just it's very close to politics. Are you going to use it for policy purposes to make better decisions and perhaps maybe next time vote for that war supplemental, or are you going to become a little more political with the information you get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the Bush campaign has been hitting John Kerry hard as somebody who flip-flops on the issues, saying for example, he voted for a resolution giving the president the ability to go to war in Iraq and has been campaigning against it.
As for John Kerry, he is simply saying the president misled him and misled Americans on the intelligence that really led him and led Senator Kerry to agreeing to give the president the ability to go to war -- Marty.
SAVIDGE: CNN's Dana Bash, reporting live from Crawford, Texas. Thank you.
Now to the grim search in Baltimore's Harbor. Divers looking for three people still missing after yesterday's water taxi accident. Dogs trained to find submerged bodies are at the scene. They may be on to something. Our Kathleen Koch is also there -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, the grim toll tonight remains one dead, seven hospitalized and three missing: a man, woman and a child. And the dual focus here in Baltimore today finding out just what happened and finding passengers' remains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): All day, rescue vessels and helicopters searched the mouth of Baltimore's Inner Harbor for signs of the missing passengers. By late afternoon, divers were lowered into the zero visibility waters, near two buoys identified by certainly on- board doing teams.
CHIEF WILLIAM GOODWIN, BALITMORE FIRE DEPT.: We've had some indicators from the search dogs in that area so we're backing that up with intense researches.
KOCH: A large crane was brought in to right the water taxi that had been towed in, examined and photographed by investigators. The National Transportation Safety Board is interviewing passengers, witnesses and crew. One of the risks said to be a very key focus of the investigation. Another question, whether the ferry company had properly prepared passengers for such an emergency. ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NTSB CHAIRMAN: Did people know how to help themselves when the accident was looming? Did they have access to the life jackets? Did they know where they were? Were they properly informed.
KOCH: Navy reservists first on the scene Saturday described driving rain, phenomenal swells. The Navy releasing photos of the passengers' dramatic rescue.
DAVID ROMANO, U.S. NAVY RESCUE: They were pretty upset, screaming, hollering that they had people underneath the boat that were trapped.
KOCH: Half a dozen sailors dove in to find them.
CMDR. PETE DECKER, U.S. NAVY RESCUE: It was very cold, it was very rough. There was a current. There's not a high concern for one's person. You want to save people, save as many people as possible.
KOCH: Tourists boarding harbor water taxies the day after the tragedy had mixed emotions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little bit nervous, but it's not going to deter me from getting where I want to go, but I will know where the life jackets are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is probably the safest day to be riding, the day after a problem. I'm sure everybody here is watching things very carefully.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: The National Transportation Safety Board in a briefing just about 15 minutes ago does say that everyone they've interviewed so far, including the captain and the mate are cooperating. Officials are conducting toxicology tests on blood and urine samples taken from the captain, looking for the possible presence of drugs or alcohol. They expect to do the same sorts of tests on the mate.
The vessel has been towed away from the location. It will be put in dry dock in NTSB investigators will be examining the propulsion system, the steering and the hull they're all functioning and intact. The NTSB says at this point, the one system they checked, the steering system seems to be functioning -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Kathleen Koch, live in Baltimore. Thank you for that update.
It was a deadly Sunday in Gaza. Israeli forces clashed with armed Palestinians. We'll have the details right after the break.
And it was the first front in the war on terrorism. So, have conditions for democracy in Afghanistan improved since U.S. troops first arrived? We'll talk with the senior editor from TIME.com about the magazine's in-depth look at that nation. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Top stories this hour. At least four people killed when gun fire erupts in a demonstration in Haiti's capital. A small rocket barrage hits Baghdad, no serious injuries reported. And divers still search for three persons missing after a water taxi capsized in Baltimore harbor yesterday.
In Gaza today, more deadly violence. Israeli forces raided 2 Palestinian refugee camps, killing at least 14 Palestinians and wounding about 50 others. That according to Palestinian sources.
The militant group Hamas said nine of the dead were militants and the rest civilians, including three boys under the age of 14. CNN's Chris Burns has details from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the funerals, vows of revenge, promises of more bloodshed after the latest Israeli raid in Gaza. After intense firefights between Palestinian militants and Israeli forces that rolled into two refugee camps in central Gaza before dawn.
The Israeli army says its tanks and armored vehicles backed by Apache helicopters came in search of terrorists infrastructure, the militants and their weapons, which is exactly what they faced.
Israeli forces say the militants fired more than a dozen anti- tank rockets, along with rocket propelled grenades and a hail of bullets, and from Palestinian youth, a hail of stones.
Palestinian hospital sources say civilian was among the dead, including at least three children.
(on camera): The Israeli incursion comes just a day after a three-car attack by Palestinian militants on the border crossing with northern Israel far over my shoulder. The attack, however, was stopped right here at the Palestinian checkpoint.
(voice-over): Four Palestinians died along with two Palestinian policemen at the checkpoint. The Israelis say that helps justify their policy of repeated incursions in Gaza.
AVI PAZNER, ISRAELI GOVT. SPOKSEMAN: Our operation is purely on an ongoing base. We are fighting now a wave of terrorism.
BURNS: Calling for help from the international community, the Palestinian authority says the Israeli policy will only lead to more violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Israelis are still playing with fire.
BURNS: Expecting more fire from Palestinian militants, Israel was under tight security as it celebrated the Jewish holiday of Pareem. Parades of traditional rejoicing. While a short drive away, a different type of parade, focused on revenge.
Chris Burns, CNN, in the Gaza strip.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Now to Afghanistan where its new army is training for combat. Soldiers fired rocket propelled grenades and machine guns last week as part of a military exercise. The U.S. is a strong backer of the Afghanistan army. It is seen as a key, actually the key to helping president Hamid Karzai rule that country. He currently has little control in provinces dominated by warlords and militias.
The world focused on Afghanistan after, of course, the September 11 attacks. The country was at the very heart of the U.S. war on terror, but the mission seems to have been eclipsed by other conflicts and hot spots. Has Afghanistan been forgotten. Well, we asked Tony Karon. He's the senior editor of TIME.com and he joins us from New York. Good evening to you sir. Thanks for being with us, Tony.
TONY KARON, TIME.COM: Good evening, Martin.
SAVIDGE: What prompted you to write this article and look indepth at Afghanistan as you have?
KARON: I think, obviously, Afghanistan has been eclipsed, as you say, in the focus on Iraq. And I think it's worth looking in, particularly as we come into an election season here in the U.S. where the president would obviously like to have an Afghanistan on the road to democracy to show the U.S. electorate in terms of his achievements in the war on terror and it was really a case of us doing scorecard on how things are going.
SAVIDGE: And as you did that, and as you reflect back, is the glass half empty, half full? Where do we stand?
KARON: Well, it's very hard to make a glass half full case. At the moment, Afghanistan what we've created in Afghanistan is a situation that's inherently unstable. And it's unlikely to get that much more stable without a substantial increase in the kind of commitment of foreign forces that we have in Afghanistan right now. And frankly, we're not seeing that being very likely. So it's hard to be terribly optimistic right now.
SAVIDGE: Well, we also know that the president of Afghanistan rules pretty much just in Kabul. What's being done as far as spreading the authority of that government elsewhere?
KARON: Exactly. As you say, not enough. You pointed in your clip earlier to the new Afghan National Army. It's a case of point. It's comprised of some 5,700 men. Is has something like a 20 percent desertion rate. It doesn't venture that far out of the capital. Nor do the foreign peacekeeps sent by NATO, a force of some 7,000. Which goes to why Karzai is known in some circles as little more than the mayor of Kabul.
The U.S. has 11,000 troops in Afghanistan. But those are there primarily to hunt down al Qaeda and remnants of the Taliban. And the job of securing the countryside isn't being taken up by anyone, so the countryside is in the hands of warlords on the one hand, who very much involved in opium production. And on the other hand, in the hands of the Taliban, which is believed now to control about one third of rural Afghanistan.
SAVIDGE: Well, what were the opinions of the Afghans that you spoke to? Has their life improved? Do they see things as getting better in the future?
KARON: Well I think, obviously, life in the capital, in particular, has improved substantially, once the strictures of the Taliban, which is a very rural, radical movement, were removed. I think in the countryside, it's a bit more of a mixed case. People are happy to be rid of the Taliban in many cases. But they're not particularly happy with the kind of warlords that are ruling them.
The great hope, being that the election would kind of -- that that's scheduled for June would mark the beginning of a tunnaround. Unfortunately, only something about 9 percent of the electorate is being registered. Those are very likely to be too now be postponed. And really it's a case of both the Taliban and the warlords have an interesting in not seeing a Democrat election going ahead because it would dilute their power.
SAVIDGE: Tony Karon with TIME magazine.com. And the name of the article is "The Other War." Thank you very much for joining us. Looking at Afghanistan in the time that has passed. We appreciate it. Thank you.
Moving on, some Georgia lawmakers want to use the power of law to strengthen the bonds of marriage. We'll tell you just what they plan to do when CNN returns.
Then, still to come, if your children get an earache in the future, it might be harder to get them antibiotics. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Well, let's take a look at news across America. In Los Angeles, UCLA police aren't saying why they've arrested the director of a program that provides donated cadavers for medical research. The "L.A. Times" reports authorities were investigating whether employees stole body parts and sold them.
In Pokamoke City, Maryland, the discovery of avian flu has forced a commercial chicken farm to slaughter 328,000 birds. The same strain has turned up in 2 blocks in Delaware. The farm is under quarantine.
In Concorde, New Hampshire openly gay bishop Gene Robinson is now officially leaving the New Hampshire Episcopal Diocese. Today's investiture ceremony came more than six months after his confirmation sharply divided the denomination. The conservative minority is protesting Robinson's consecration. The American Anglican Council has condemned it as heresy, blasphemy and sin. Bishop Robinson had said he would certainly marry his gay partner if he could. As American struggles with the issue of same-sex marriage, nearly 50 percent of traditional marriages continue to fail. Gary Tuchman reports on a controversial step some states are trying to take to change that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESOPNDENT (voice-over): The weather makes the town of Duluth, Georgia, look more like Duluth, Minnesota. But that's just fine for David and Terri Savage and their two girls. It makes for a fun day for a husband and wife who have had a lot of trying days.
DAVID SAVAGE, HUSBAND: We basically could not stand to be in the same room with each other.
TUCHMAN: In a nation where nearly one out of two marriages end up in divorce, the Savages were on the verge of calling it quits.
TERRI SAVAGE, WIFE: I was dead set on it.
TUCHMAN: They were separated but sought help from friends, family, their church. Now...
T. SAVAGE: I and see anything that could ever break this marriage now.
TUCHMAN: Stories like this are reasons lobbyists are attempting actions like this.
JAMIE SELF, GEORGIA FAMILY COUNCIL: They want to try to protect marriage in hopes that you save people from some of the pain that they go through when families break down.
TUCHMAN: Georgia is one of several states where attempts are being made to make divorces harder to get. Legislation that has been passed by the state Senate would turn 30-day waiting periods for no- fault divorces into 120 days for couples without children, and 180 days for couples with children. In addition, couples with minor children would be required to get counseling.
PROF. WILLIAM GALSTON, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: Under many circumstances, children of divorce don't do as well as children who want to be able to grow up in intact families.
TUCHMAN: That research is generally acknowledged.
DEBBIE SEAGRAVES, GEORGIA ACLU: But if a couple's decided they want to dissolve their marriage for whatever reason, the idea the state knows best and they should have to wait and take classes is an imposition in many cases.
TUCHMAN: Not surprisingly, the Savages like the proposed law, but hope they never have to deal with it. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Duluth, Georgia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: A political demonstration in Haiti turns deadly. We'll tell you what happened after the break.
Plus, what is John Kerry looking for in a running mate? We'll run down the potential contenders and what they could many for Kerry's campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Taliban; Georgia Legislation Would Make It Harder To Get Divorce; Iraq Insurgents Fire 7 Rockets At Coalition Provisional Authority>
