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American Morning

Martha Stewart's Future; Interview With Congressman James Greenwood; New Era in Iraq

Aired March 08, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Bill Hemmer off today, but Miles O'Brien is filling in.
Nice to have you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to be here.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks for having me drop by.

S. O'BRIEN: It's our pleasure.

Other stories that we're following this morning, Martha Stewart could very well be going to prison. Congressman James Greenwood was in on the early investigation that led to this point. We'll find out from him this morning just how he feels about it now.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, we'll talk to another captain of industry who's been taken down a few pegs. But this time, just for fun. Jonathan Tics, chairman and CEO of Loews Hotels, ended up doing a lot of dirty jobs for a reality show.

S. O'BRIEN: He had to switch places with his housekeeping staff and some other parts of the staff.

M. O'BRIEN: That's a tough job.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it was tough. But he said he learned a lot. We'll talk to him. It's a lot of fun to chat with him about that.

Jack Cafferty, good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. This just in. Scientists have discovered there are rocks on Mars. And coming up in this hour, we'll be reading -- aren't you glad you came up from Atlanta to take this whipping?

S. O'BRIEN: To be tortured?

M. O'BRIEN: Complete abuse is all I get. I get on a plane, I come here, it rains, I get abuse from you.

CAFFERTY: No different than Atlanta. Coming up, we're reading e-mails on what you would do in Iraq if you were John Kerry. He is critical of President Bush. Well, so what's his idea? And what do you think his idea ought to be? AM@CNN.com. That's how I find those e-mails.

M. O'BRIEN: I have a Mars mission for you, by the way.

CAFFERTY: Don't hit me.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Yes, on the computer. All right.

On to serious stuff. Let's check the news, shall we?

More violence in Baghdad to tell you about. A rocket hit a house near a police patrol station in central Baghdad today. Four were injured, including two children and a police officer. Last night, Iraq had damaged a hotel near the conference center where Iraqi officials had signed the interim constitution this morning. Jane Arraf has the latest from Baghdad coming up in just a bit.

Attorney General John Ashcroft still in a Washington hospital. The attorney general was admitted there Thursday for severe gallstone pancreatitis. As of Saturday, he was in the hospital's intensive care unit. A Justice Department spokesman would not provide an update on Ashcroft's condition, however.

Jury selection resumes today in the double murder trial of Scott Peterson. About 200 people will fill out 23-page questionnaires in the California courtroom. Lawyers want to know how perspective jurors feel about a variety of issues, including the death penalty and whether they have lost a child. Peterson is charged with killing his wife and unborn son.

The son of baseball legend Ted Williams has died. John Henry Williams lost his life to leukemia over the weekend. The Hall of Famer's son had a tryout with the Red Sox a few years ago -- seen here. He also gained notice for a family dispute over the freezing of his father's body after his death in 2002. John Henry Williams died Saturday in California. He was 35.

And beginning today, Seattle will recognize the marriages of same-sex couples. Mayor Greg Nickels announced yesterday city workers who are married will be given equal rights whether they are heterosexual or gay. The mayor supports same-sex marriages but lacks the authority to issue the licenses. It's done by the county in the state of Washington.

S. O'BRIEN: Interesting.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: At this hour, Martha Stewart expected to meet with her probation officer. It's part of a pre-sentencing phase after her conviction on Friday for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and lying to investigators.

Deborah Feyerick is outside the federal courthouse this morning.

Deborah, first, let's start with what exactly you expect to happen at this meeting.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martha Stewart will meet with her probation officer. She'll be given a set of guidelines as to what she can and cannot do, and then she'll be told where she needs to show for her sentencing, which is just about three months from now, a little over three months from now -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We've been told that on Friday at the actual -- when the verdict was read, that Martha Stewart's demeanor did not change a bit. But what was the scene like inside the courtroom where you were? Did people let out a gasp, were people shocked? Or were they not shocked?

FEYERICK: You know, there wasn't a gasp. But when the jury first came in, I was looking very closely at them, because there's a rule that if they look at the defendant, then she's going to get off. If they don't look at her, that means that she's guilty.

A couple of jurors did look at Martha Stewart. So it just wasn't clear what it was going to be. But it was right at 2:00 word came down that a note was being circulated. First, we heard it was the jury had come in with a verdict, then, no, they were just requesting additional information.

But the marshals came in, a heavier presence there, the police -- more police came. So it was just clear that this was more than just an informational note. People were really on edge of their seat.

The U.S. attorney came down from his office and he wouldn't even confirm whether in fact there was a verdict. But he was called down. So there was a real sense of anticipation, a real sense of expectation that something was happening.

And Martha Stewart remained stoic throughout the whole thing. She had her hands on the table, her fingers sort of gently pressing the table, but her shoulders didn't sag. She looked straight ahead at the judge.

And this was as several people close to her, including her daughter, just bent over and began weeping. And it lasted for several minutes as the judge read each of the charges against Martha Stewart. So it had to have been one of the difficult days she's ever had in her life -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: No question about that. In retrospect, it's been interesting to hear what the jurors had to say. One thing they said was that Douglas Faneuil, who was on the stand for four days, they found him credible. But they actually found his testimony less important than that of Ann Armstrong, who is the assistant to Martha Stewart, who was only on the stand for one day.

What exactly did they think was more critical about Ms. Armstrong's testimony? FEYERICK: Soledad, this was so interesting when the jury member came out and said, you know, we really found Ann Armstrong to be the key to all of this. Ann Armstrong is the assistant who took down the original message left by Stewart's broker that ImClone was going to begin trading downwards.

Stewart needed Armstrong to call up the messages so she could forward everything to her lawyers. Again, that's all part of the investigation. When Stewart saw that message, she tried to change it, realized what she had done, told her assistant get the message back.

Well, Ann Armstrong testified that, with the help of an office friend, she was able to retrieve the original message. She printed out a copy to give to Martha Stewart, but then she printed out a second copy, took that copy, put it in a envelope, have the office friend sign the envelope, and then put that envelope in storage.

So while she both was fond of her boss, she also, it seems, really sort of feared her boss and had a feeling that this particular e-mail was going to come back to haunt her. The prosecution wanted to know why she took this step. Morvillo, Stewart's attorney, objected.

So we never heard the reason why she felt the need to take such a step. But I really have to believe that this is something that stayed with the jury -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Deb Feyerick for us this morning downtown.

Deborah, thanks.

Congressman James Greenwood was one of the first to refer Martha Stewart's name to the Justice Department in connection with ImClone nearly two years ago. Martha Stewart's name turned up on phone logs during a House committee investigation of ImClone chief Sam Waksal. And Congressman Greenwood, a Republican of Pennsylvania, joins us this morning from Philadelphia.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

REP. JAMES GREENWOOD (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Are you surprised days later about the conviction ever Martha Stewart or no?

GREENWOOD: Well, not terribly. I think everyone was sort of guessing as to what the outcome would be. But we could see this coming two years ago. And it's a tragedy.

This was so easily avoided. I know that about a year and a half ago I had Martha Stewart's attorney in my office and I said to him, "Look, there's an easy way out. All she has to do is say 'I made a mistake,' have a press conference, ask to pay a fine, make a contribution to something like the Enron Employees Fund and say, 'I'm doing this in the name of corporate responsibility.'"

She would have been a heroine. She would have been raised on our shoulders. And all of this would have been avoided. But for some reason...

S. O'BRIEN: But that wouldn't necessarily, though, protect her from any forthcoming charges, right? I mean, she might have taken that step, but there's always the risk there that then you are charged with insider trading, which she will have, in your scenario, just admitted to in a press conference. True?

GREENWOOD: Well, yes, but it was so clear that -- the facts in this matter, I thought, were very clear. And I can't believe that she didn't understand that she had tried to -- she had participated in this insider trading, and that she had tried to cover it up. And the Justice Department is always going to be lenient if you make a plea bargain agreement, if you don't go to court, if you admit your guilt. It's historically the smart thing to do when you've done something that you shouldn't have.

S. O'BRIEN: When you read, and I'm sure you've seen, also, some of the jurors' comments about what struck them after the conviction -- they were caught outside the courtroom -- what has struck you most about what they've had to say about this trial?

GREENWOOD: Well, I think as you just said in your point, it was the -- it was the fact of the intentional attempt to cover up by Ms. Stewart herself, altering the e-mails, very damning. The fact that she had told her vacationing friend that it was nice to have a broker who will tip you off like that.

So the facts are pretty incontrovertible in this matter. And I just for the life of me don't understand why Martha Stewart would have gone all this way through the trial knowing full well that she had done things that she shouldn't have which were not that serious. And that's the real tragedy. This woman's probably going to go to jail for what were minor offenses and then compounded by the consistent lying to the Justice Department.

S. O'BRIEN: On Friday, you said, "I wouldn't wish anybody ill, including Martha Stewart." Back in June of last year, when you were running for another term, you said this: "I've done some important work on Enron and other corporate scandals. I will probably put Martha Stewart in jail."

In the scheme of all that you've accomplished in your tenure in public service, is this something that you would say you're proud of having done?

GREENWOOD: Oh, no. I am proud of the work that I've done and that my subcommittee has done on corporate irresponsibility on the Enron case, on WorldCom, on Global Crossing, on -- we were looking not at Martha Stewart. We never had Martha Stewart in our sights as a target. We were looking at the ImClone Corporation, at Sam Waksal.

This was a very small aside in this matter. And I take not the slightest bit of joy for the fact that Ms. Stewart's going to go to jail. I think it's sad.

I tried everything in my power to help her attorneys avoid this outcome, but they were insistent. And I think she was insistent on taking this very dangerous course. And it led to where I think it inevitably would lead.

S. O'BRIEN: Congressman Greenwood, nice to see you. Thanks for being with us. Interesting insight, of course, from your perspective. Thanks.

GREENWOOD: Pleasure. Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Exiled Haitian president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, this morning is calling for peace in his strife-ridden country. His appeal comes a day after deadly gunfire erupted during an anti- Aristide demonstration in Haiti, killing at least four people near the presidential palace. U.S. Marines guarding the palace returned gunfire. It's the first time they've had to shoot since the arrived in Haiti last week.

Iraqi leaders this morning look forward to a New, free and democratic Iraq. That, as the Iraqi Governing Council signed an interim constitution into law. Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf is in the Iraqi capital with details on a historic moment there.

Hello, Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Miles. It was a historic moment that took a little while to get going. You'll recall that this signing should have taken place a couple of days ago. At that time, everything was ready, the children, the folklore, costumes, the music, and the invited guests. But the Governing Council didn't show up.

Well, they did today. And one after the other, they picked up their gold pens and put their names to this document that is meant essentially to be a framework for a New democratic, pluralistic Iraq. One, in fact, that has phenomenal features in it which are unprecedented, perhaps, anywhere. A target, for instance, that 25 percent of those elected when there are general elections be women, all kinds of guarantees.

Now, they signed this document; there's some hard work ahead. And there were also explosions bracketing this document, explosions last night, a rocket attack, another one today. But one of the Governing Council members said that the enemies of Iraq don't realize that the will of the people is stronger than their bombs. Everyone here hoping that that is indeed the case -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: It's an important step on a long road. Jane Arraf, live in Baghdad, thank you very much -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, divorcing a parent. What would make a teenager want to sever his ties with his father? We'll hear the brutal story of one young man just ahead.

M. O'BRIEN: We're learning more each day about the Red Planet. Jack Cafferty has been taking notes, loving every minute of it. But now the Mars rover has hit a small roadblock. But they love fixing this stuff out there in Pasadena.

S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, TV's favorite mob family returns. Does the newest season of "The Sopranos" deliver? Our "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in this morning. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" was top in movie ticket sales for a Second straight weekend. The controversial film about the last hours of the life of Jesus took in about $51.4 million. The film's distributor estimates that the film has earned $212 million since its release on Ash Wednesday.

Our "90-Second Pop" panel is going to have more weekend box office news a little bit later this hour -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Sure, they've revolutionized the way we look at the Red Planet by finding proof of its watery past, but is that all the Mars rovers can do? Earlier today, I talked with Michael Shara, the head of astrophysics at the American Museum of Natural History here in New York. We talked about Mars and we talked about an exciting discovery expected to be released tomorrow by the Hubble Space Telescope.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SHARA, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: This is beginning to tell you that water was really everywhere on the planet. There may have been a deep ocean or at least a deep lake covering a significant fraction of the planet. And so it wasn't just a fluke that you happen to get very lucky and find it in one place and not in another. Finding it on two opposite sides of the planet tells us that it was probably common everywhere.

M. O'BRIEN: Could have been oceans?

SHARA: Could have been oceans. We'd love to know how deep and how long ago.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So which statement is correct, where there's water there's life, or where there's life there's water?

SHARA: It's clear on Earth that there is both life and water, and water is essential to life. Not sunlight. We have life at the bottom of the deep oceans. But water isn't a proof there ever was life there. It's certainly a necessary condition on Earth, but not sufficient.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So I guess the question would be, maybe there's some fossils in those rocks?

SHARA: We'd certainly love to bring some back and take a good look.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. A big day tomorrow for folks in your realm. The Hubble Space Telescope continues to really lead a golden age of astronomy.

They're going to release a new image called the deeper field. Let's take a look at the 96 image called the deep field, which was -- Hubble was pointed at a dark piece of the sky, or so we thought, for a long period of time, several exposures, and then they discovered in excess of 1,500 galaxies that had previously not been seen before.

What's the significance of that? And what are we likely to see tomorrow?

SHARA: Well, to give you an idea as to just how many galaxies were found, if you hold up a grain of sand at arm's length, that was the piece of sky covered. And that's the piece of sky you see on the image.

We're going to be taking a picture with the Hubble Telescope -- or rather releasing a picture that's been taken over the last several months that covers four times more area, goes about four times as deep. And we're expecting 15,000 to 20,000 galaxies. And in addition...

M. O'BRIEN: Fifteen thousand to 20,000 galaxies we haven't seen before?

SHARA: That we haven't seen before, and that are at extremely large distances from us. Really galaxies from when the universe was very, very young.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So a final thought here. There's a bit of irony that this is being released even as there's a big debate on the future of the Hubble.

NASA's administrator, Sean O'Keefe, wants to cancel that final repair mission. A lot of scientists such as yourself upset about that prospect. What do you thinks going to happen?

SHARA: Right now, there's a review under way within NASA, and there's going to be advice given to the administrator as to what to do. The images that we keep seeing from Hubble, the science that's coming back from Hubble, is better than any other instrument we've ever had. I think that all of us have our fingers crossed that NASA's going to rethink this decision. And I think we all think there's a chance that it's going to be reinstated.

M. O'BRIEN: Worth the risk of human life to fix it?

SHARA: That's always a hard one. I would say that it is the most valuable thing that NASA has done in the last 25 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: The new Hubble image will be released tomorrow morning 9:30 Eastern. Teams of astrophysicists will then embark on a weeklong race to try to be the first to decode the space objects revealed in that image -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, what if your boss suddenly became a low-level employee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN TISCH, CEO, LOEWS HOTELS: It took me three hours to do one room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: We're going to tell you why this CEO is getting his hands dirty on the job when AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: This just in to us here at CNN from the Reuters News Service. The country of Zimbabwe has seized apparently a U.S.- registered 727 which apparently carried various nationalities, 64 suspected mercenaries, according to the country of Zimbabwe, and a cargo of what is being described as military material.

That 727 was detained last night at 7:30 local time at the Harare International Airport in Zimbabwe, after the crew, according to the ininterior minister there, made a false declaration of its cargo and crew. Once again, a U.S.-registered 7272 apparently -- allegedly a planeload of mercenaries and their gear are now being held in Zimbabwe. We'll keep you posted as this story unfolds -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: On a much lighter note, as chairman of the luxurious Loews Hotel chain, Jonathan Tisch is right at home in the boardroom. But can he hack it in the mail room? Tisch is one of several executives taking part in a new series called "Now Who's Boss?" The show puts CEOs in their staffers'shoes, and Tisch spent a week getting down and dirty at the Loews Miami Beach Hotel.

Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TISCH: More garbage. How are you all doing? Whoa. Oh my god. I got my uniform dirty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: In addition to pool attendant, Tisch also took turns as housekeeper, a bell hop, and room service waiter. And I spoke to him recently about the experience and I asked him which job he liked best.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TISCH: The most fun position was being a cook. I don't do this in real life, and to watch the choreography of the eggs and the pancakes and the bacon and the toast having to come together all at the same time was frightening, but I had a blast.

S. O'BRIEN: Was it stressful? I mean, did you generally feel stress?

TISCH: Not only was it stressful, it's hot. And you're in a very tight space. And you've got 50 orders coming in at once. And the men and the women who do this on a regular basis, they have a whole choreography. They know exactly what they're doing.

And here this lug comes in who's their boss and has no clue about cooking. And it was a riot.

S. O'BRIEN: How did they treat you? Because, on one hand, they kind of need you to move things, like, "Get the eggs done, please." But on the other hand, they work for you.

TISCH: What was wonderful about the whole show is that they treated me like one of them. And that is the premise of the TLC idea for the broadcast, is take a CEO and put him in there. And they busted me. They were critical of me. And I tried to fit in as best I could.

S. O'BRIEN: What job did you like the least? What's the hardest job?

TISCH: By far and away it's housekeeping. And I have tremendous respect for the mainly ladies who do this on a regular basis. In Miami Beach, we ask them to do 14 rooms a day. And so they're lifting and they're bending over and they're carrying -- lifting up the beds to do the hospital corners, and they're in the bathroom with the showers and the toilets.

So it's physically challenging, but also it's mentally challenging because it's lonely. They do this by themselves. And 14 times a day they open a door and they don't know what to expect.

S. O'BRIEN: Were you surprised when you opened the door to some of these rooms, that you had to go clean them?

TISCH: Surprise it isn't the word. I was shocked.

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

TISCH: And I know this is a big concept, but people don't treat hotel rooms so nicely. And they figure they're paying and they're going to do what they want. And it literally takes your breath away to open the door and go, "Whoa, this room's going to take a long time."

Our housekeepers do the rooms in about a half-hour. It took me three hours to do one room.

S. O'BRIEN: You don't do a lot of housekeeping?

TISCH: I try in my apartment. S. O'BRIEN: You actually had a really nice meeting with some of the housekeeping staff. And you spoke to them very, I thought, sweetly about just how much you respect their work. Let's listen to what you had to say.

TISCH: I'll tell you, after doing your job yesterday, I have so much respect for what all of you ladies do.

(APPLAUSE)

S. O'BRIEN: Tell me why you said that to them?

TISCH: One of the reasons I wanted to do the show was to have a better understanding of something that I knew already, which is the concept that our employees are more responsible for our success as a hotel company than in many ways I am. So to go down there, and having done the housekeeping position, and look at the 35 individuals who do this every single day on a particular shift, and also to understand that they're from 12 different nations, they speak six different languages, and somehow every single day this has to come together to turn over an 800-room hotel, and make the beds and clean the bathrooms. So I just wanted to tell them that I appreciate what they do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: The series is called "Now Who's Boss?" It premieres tonight at 10:00 Eastern, and that's on "The Learning Channel" -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, after 15 months away, "The Sopranos" are back in business. Our "90-Second Pop" panelists have their reviews coming up.

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING, or else.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: And good morning. And welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Miles O'Brien is sitting in for Bill Hemmer, who is out today.

So thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: It's good to be here on the home stretch, especially.

S. O'BRIEN: Especially the last half-hour. It's really good.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Florida's Cuban voters might be in play. We're going to hear why the Republicans still have to campaign for their votes even if the Cubans say they don't plan to vote for Senator John Kerry. That's just ahead. M. O'BRIEN: Also, we'll hear from a boy who wants his father out of his life. It's because of what his father did to the boy's mother. But a judge won't grant his request. We'll explain.

S. O'BRIEN: A complicated story there.

Let's get right to our top stories this morning. There are reports coming in that Zimbabwe has seized a U.S.-registered cargo plane carrying 64 suspected mercenaries, and military material as well. Reuters News Agency is reporting that the Boeing 727 was detained last night at Harae International Airport. In a statement, Zimbabwe's interior minister has said that the plane was detained after its owners made a "false declaration" of its cargo and crew. Stay with CNN for more on this developing story.

Martha Stewart is expected to meet with a probation officer today. The jury deliberated for 12 hours before convicting her Friday of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and two counts of making false statements. Her sentencing is now scheduled for June 17. Stewart still faces a civil insider trading lawsuit brought by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The probe into possible cadaver theft at the University of California is expanding. Henry Reid, director of UCLA's Willed Body Program, was arrested over the weekend. He and another man have been linked to the illegal sale of bodies and body parts that were donated to the university for research. The university says there may be more arrests.

Singer Courtney Love is scheduled to stand trial starting today on charges of being under the influence of a controlled substance. Love's two criminal cases were delayed after she dismissed her attorney. The 39-year-old performer is also charged with drug possession. She's scheduled to have a preliminary hearing on those charges next week.

In golf, Craig Parry stuns the crowd with this incredible shot from 176 yards out. He also beat Scott Verplank in a playoff for the Ford Championship at the Doral in Miami. The 38-year-old Australian grabbed his victory on the blue monster signature hole.

Look at that. One of the toughest holes on the tour this year. And I like the way the announcer called it. "It's in the hole. No, it's still in the air."

M. O'BRIEN: If you say that enough times, one of these time you'd be right.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: A parent-child bond is something many people would never want to see broken. But what happens when one of the parents is convicted of murdering the other?

The father of Patrick Holland is serving a life sentence for killing his mother in 1998. Patrick found the body in their Quincy, Massachusetts, home. He was only eight at the time. Now, at age 14, he would like to sever ties with his dad, but it's a very difficult battle, as it turns out.

Patrick Holland, and his legal guardians, Rita and Ronald Lazisky, join us now to talk a little bit about this.

Welcome to you all. I know this is a very tough subject for you all to deal with and share with a national audience. But we'll give it a try.

Patrick, first of all, how are you doing some six years later?

PATRICK HOLLAND, FOUGHT TO CUT TIES WITH FATHER: I'm doing all right.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes? What's life like?

HOLLAND: Well, I live in a little town that no one ever heard of.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. In New Hampshire...

HOLLAND: In New Hampshire.

M. O'BRIEN: ... and your guardians here. Just because they're here, you can tell us the truth, how is life with them? You're doing well?

HOLLAND: Yes. I enjoy it.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Good grades in school and so forth?

HOLLAND: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. OK. But, you know, at least showing up, anyhow?

HOLLAND: Yes, I'm showing up.

M. O'BRIEN: How is he doing from your perspective? What would you say?

RITA LAZISKY, PATRICK'S LEGAL GUARDIAN: He's doing very well. I mean, there have been some hard times, difficult times he's gone through. But overall I think he's adjusting well.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

Patrick, at what point do you recall making a decision that you wanted to sever any sort of legal relationship with your father? When did that occur to you?

HOLLAND: Well, a few years ago, maybe three. He said that he wanted to get my school records, my baseball records, and how I'm doing in counseling.

M. O'BRIEN: For what purpose? Just to...

HOLLAND: Just to see how I'm doing, I guess. And a loving parent would want to see how the kids are doing, you know? But obviously he's not a loving parent. Because if he was, why would he leave me to find my mother's dead body?

M. O'BRIEN: So even as he sits in prison, he has that right to get those records?

HOLLAND: Yes -- legally, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: And so your reaction to that was what?

HOLLAND: Well, it just angered me very much, that he would want to do that. If he really cared, then just stay out of my life.

M. O'BRIEN: Now, the way this is played out, some of the problem is a bit jurisdictional. You're in New Hampshire; this all took place in Massachusetts. But what so far has the judge indicated about the prospects of this happening?

HOLLAND: Excuse me?

M. O'BRIEN: Has the judge indicated whether there's a good chance legally to do this?

HOLLAND: You need to talk to Ron.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Go ahead, Ron. We'll have you dive into the legal waters. What are you hearing from attorneys and the legal system in general?

RONALD LAZISKY, PATRICK'S LEGAL GUARDIAN: Well, the judge -- you're correct. The judge indicated that it's more jurisdictional, as you said. And my problem is that I'm trying to get answers to it. And I can't get the answers to why it went on for over a year with five continuances.

M. O'BRIEN: So the judge continued this for as long as a year, and then ultimately ruled not his jurisdiction?

R. LAZISKY: Right. And to make matters worse, two years, maybe three years ago, my wife and I received a written order from him that we could not go to any other court other than his. So we were obeying his rules by going to his court and filing the petition. And all of a sudden, he wants to wash his hands of it.

M. O'BRIEN: So it's important for you to get this squared away, as I'm sure -- but the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly.

HOLLAND: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you have the patience to go through all this?

HOLLAND: Well, you know, I hope that I can get through it all. You know, I don't plan on giving up anytime soon. But, I mean, it just -- I don't know why they'd do that.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you optimistic that you will prevail ultimately?

HOLLAND: Yes. I know I'm going to prevail.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Well, we wish you all well in the battle. And we're sorry you had to go through the fight in this way. And thank you very much for being with us, Patrick Holland, Rita and Ronald Lazisky. Thank you. Appreciate it -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Political news now. Some 455 Democratic National Convention delegates are at stake tomorrow. Four southern states, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas, will hold primaries. The most closely watched contest, though, will be in Florida. The Sunshine State is worth 27 electoral votes in November.

Senator John Kerry is making campaign stops there today. President Bush has made 19 visits since he took office.

John Zarrella in Miami for us this morning.

John, good morning.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, Senator Kerry certainly should have enough of those delegates after tomorrow's primaries to pretty much sew up the Democratic nomination, if it isn't already sewn up. He's here today in Florida, right now in Hollywood, Florida, at a campaign stop. At noon, he'll be in West Palm Beach. And then tonight, he'll be in Tampa, showing just how pivotal Florida is expected to be once again come November. But there is one group of voters that Senator Kerry cannot count on for support.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Florida, political experts say, is a difficult state for any candidate. The message has to appeal to a diverse population: retired and active military, elderly voters, affluent young suburbanites and minorities. Among them, traditionally Republican Cuban-Americans. One party message, maintaining a tough stance against Fidel Castro, has for decades played well in south Florida.

PEPE LOPEZ, HISPANIC INDEPENDENTS: Whoever wants to win Florida, better come here and better say what we want to hear. I mean, I'm not even going to say do what we want them to do, because I know in 41 years they haven't done it. But at least I want to hear it.

ZARRELLA: Among a large majority of Cuban-American voters, President Bush is still their man. But recently, there have been uncharacteristic grumblings. The Cuban-American National Foundation, once a powerful Republican ally, has expressed frustration that the administration hasn't done enough to put pressure on Castro. But so far, political science professor Dario Mareno says Democrats haven't taken advantage of the opening. DARIO MARENO, FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY: The Democrats' problem in Florida is that they haven't had a very powerful outreach program toward Hispanics.

ZARRELLA: Even if Democratic candidate John Kerry doesn't strike a chord with Cuban voters, the Republicans can't, political analyst Jim Kane says, rely on the old saying, who else are they going to vote for?

JIM KANE, POLITICAL ANALYST: It doesn't work with Cuban- Americans, because they'll stay home and sit on their hands and turnout will drop dramatically. And the Republican candidate can't win Florida without an energized Cuban-American vote.

ZARRELLA: That energized vote is one Republicans have counted on. And the president will, no doubt, do everything he can to make sure it stays that way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now a new poll just released over the weekend of 800 voters, shows that Senator Kerry right now leading President Bush 49 percent to 43 percent. Of course, a lot of political experts saying that's the bounce factor. He's doing really well right now coming out of Super Tuesday, and that they expect it to shift back and forth many times between now and November. So we're in for an interesting ride here in Florida -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: No question about that. John Zarrella for us this morning. John, thanks.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, when the so-called Oracle of Omaha talks, investors listen. Warren Buffett issues his annual letter to share holders. Andy will share some details.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, the nation's favorite organized crime family is back from its 15-month hiatus. Reviews of last night's season premiere with our "90-Second Pop" panel is just ahead.

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: We're going to do a "best of" clips from -- audio clips only from "90-Second Pop." Welcome, everybody. It's time for "90-Second Pop."

Today's hot topics are a TV mob seen. You've seen some of those there. Jesus still a superstar. And also a very bad day for Martha. We're going to talk about all that with humorist Andy Borowitz. Also, Toure, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone." And Sam Rubin, entertainment reporter for KTLA out in Los Angeles.

Nice to have you, Sam. Welcome, because first time.

SAM RUBIN, REPORTER, KTLA ENTERTAINMENT: First time right here, yes, on the hot seat, to be sure.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. You've been on our show a million times. First time on "90-Second Pop."

Let's talk about Martha. Toure, you want to -- are you shocked?

TOURE, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE": No, I wasn't shocked. I mean, like five minutes before, we were all e- mailing around. And a lot of people were saying guilty, guilty, guilty.

This is the year of comeuppance, where the high and mighty will fall. She is first. Michael Eisner is coming.

Kobe Bryant, I'm sorry, is going to fall. Jayson Williams absolutely is going to fall -- R. Kelly. I mean, it's just going to be a year of watching these mighty people redefine their whole career.

S. O'BRIEN: Great time to be alive.

RUBIN: You know, everyone had this aspiration to be -- what's better than being famous and someone like Martha Stewart, completely control of your own destiny? Now it turns out that isn't necessarily the case. And no sympathy. Nobody seems to be the least bit sorry for her.

S. O'BRIEN: You don't think anyone's -- I know some people who feel like...

RUBIN: I think they feel badly for the circumstance, but they don't feel badly for her.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about a lighter topic. How sad is that, "The Sopranos." I wasn't even trying for the joke there, wow. I didn't stay up to see it because it's just way too late for me.

RUBIN: You know, the thing about "The Sopranos" is, like, god forbid this be a 120-second pop, that TV has it pacing, pacing, pacing, pacing. This is a show that takes its time.

The opening sequence has respect for the viewers. It's like, let's all come back in. And, you know, everybody can say this, and it's the best show on television.

S. O'BRIEN: Did you love...

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It's going to get better next week because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is joining the show.

TOURE: Yes. I mean, this is like A-Rod joining the Yankees. One of the great actors of Hollywood who plays this wonderful villain all the time joining this great cast of villains. I mean, the best show on TV, it's the easiest thing to say.

BOROWITZ: I mean, the only other villain they could add is Trump at this point.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about some weekend movies. "Starsky and Hutch," which looks really funny, is it good?

TOURE: It was so much fun. Snoop Dog is awesome; Owen Wilson is a comic genius. It was just so much fun.

BOROWITZ: And you know what? I know there's been a lot of controversy, but it is not anti-Semitic.

RUBIN: I think comic genius because, I tell you what, Snoop Dog, to a degree, walks away with this. I don't think it's necessarily that hard to do. I think Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller kind of walk through it. But the fact is, audiences, most movie-going audiences, aren't necessarily familiar with the show, and it still did very well.

S. O'BRIEN: Did he just say we're old because we know the show?

RUBIN: No, no.

TOURE: No, he's saying were young, not old enough to know the show.

RUBIN: You know, Ben Stiller had this -- Ben Stiller himself had this terrible worry. You know, he's like, I'm vaguely familiar with this. But that show was on a long time ago.

S. O'BRIEN: I remember it very clearly.

(CROSSTALK)

TOURE: They get the tone right, they get the car right, they get the cameos. It was so much fun.

S. O'BRIEN: I want to see that. "The Passion" big surprise that it has.

RUBIN: It's "Jesus Christ Superstar" again. It is extraordinary.

What has happened here is the movie business, they always talk about the elasticity at the box office.

S. O'BRIEN: We know what you mean.

RUBIN: It's really -- that's why I don't do that "IN THE MONEY" show. It's astounding. I mean, what he's done, Mel Gibson, has brought people to the movies who haven't gone to the movies for a very long time.

TOURE: Can we talk about the casting, though, for a moment. I mean, like, it's supposed to be as it was in the bible. But they choose a white Jesus, as we have been typically seeing since the 14th century.

(CROSSTALK) TOURE: It's funny, but -- no, but it's not. I mean, like if Mel Gibson really had courage, choose a black Jesus. That's what it says literally in the bible. Don't choose somebody that's going to be good for America now.

S. O'BRIEN: OK. And on that, Mel, we loved it, except it should have been a black Jesus. You guys, Andy and Toure, and also Sam, nice to have you. Thanks, you guys, as always -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, it wasn't long ago that Wall Street was all smiles when Martha Stewart came to visit. How is it treating her stock today?

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Do you have the "Question of the Day" Jack?

CAFFERTY: You know what I'd like to see, I'd like to see the bill that Martha Stewart got from that guy who put up a one-hour defense and put one witness on the stand.

M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Morvillo?

S. O'BRIEN: Definitely about $45,000, which I think is what she cleared from the sale.

CAFFERTY: I wonder what those guys charged her for that so- called defense. I would love to see that. Martha, send us a copy of that bill.

If you were John Kerry, what would you do differently in Iraq? Judy in St. Petersburg, Florida, writes: "I'd get in touch with Iraqi- Americans, perhaps other Muslims in this country, and ask them to help guide efforts to rebuild Iraq. I don't think a purely western approach has much chance."

A writes: "Think more like Kucinich. Use transcendental meditation for world peace."

Mel writes about Kerry's waffle plan. "Day one: pull American troops, turn job over to the U.N. Feed America's poor waffles to build stamina, draft them into the new peacekeeping force, which can then be sent to Iraq as our U.N. troop quota."

"Day two: no, no sending jobs overseas. Feed the poor and leave them at home, increase taxes to buy oil from the Middle East in order to fuel unmanned surveillance planes to look for bin Laden."

"Day three: send a message to terrorists, bring it on."

Mark writes from Ann Arbor, Michigan, "Kerry will need to rebuild the international coalition, the people around Bush tore apart. One other thing he should do is to put Miles O'Brien in charge of NASA and then Miles can have endless Mars minutes."

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Uncle Mark. Appreciate that.

S. O'BRIEN: And thank you very much, Jack.

CAFFERTY: What the world needs is endless Mars minutes.

S. O'BRIEN: It can't hurt.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Coming up on CNN this morning, the U.S. War in Afghanistan is the subject of a critical report being issued today by a human rights organization. The Pentagon's response is coming up in the next hour on "CNN LIVE TODAY". We're back in a moment

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: That's it. We're out of time this morning. Thanks, everybody.

Let's go to Carol Costello at the CNN Center. She's going to take you through the next few hours on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

Hey, Carol. Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. How are you feeling, Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Really icky, actually. But thank you for asking.

M. O'BRIEN: How do you feel? You got up early.

COSTELLO: I did. But I'm so used to it. And after 12 cups of coffee, it doesn't matter. I'm flying, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: No naps during the three hours then, right?

COSTELLO: No, not at all.

S. O'BRIEN: I don't need no sleep.

COSTELLO: Exactly. You guys have a great day. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Enjoy the caffeine.





Greenwood; New Era in Iraq>


Aired March 8, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Bill Hemmer off today, but Miles O'Brien is filling in.
Nice to have you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to be here.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks for having me drop by.

S. O'BRIEN: It's our pleasure.

Other stories that we're following this morning, Martha Stewart could very well be going to prison. Congressman James Greenwood was in on the early investigation that led to this point. We'll find out from him this morning just how he feels about it now.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, we'll talk to another captain of industry who's been taken down a few pegs. But this time, just for fun. Jonathan Tics, chairman and CEO of Loews Hotels, ended up doing a lot of dirty jobs for a reality show.

S. O'BRIEN: He had to switch places with his housekeeping staff and some other parts of the staff.

M. O'BRIEN: That's a tough job.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it was tough. But he said he learned a lot. We'll talk to him. It's a lot of fun to chat with him about that.

Jack Cafferty, good morning.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. This just in. Scientists have discovered there are rocks on Mars. And coming up in this hour, we'll be reading -- aren't you glad you came up from Atlanta to take this whipping?

S. O'BRIEN: To be tortured?

M. O'BRIEN: Complete abuse is all I get. I get on a plane, I come here, it rains, I get abuse from you.

CAFFERTY: No different than Atlanta. Coming up, we're reading e-mails on what you would do in Iraq if you were John Kerry. He is critical of President Bush. Well, so what's his idea? And what do you think his idea ought to be? AM@CNN.com. That's how I find those e-mails.

M. O'BRIEN: I have a Mars mission for you, by the way.

CAFFERTY: Don't hit me.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Yes, on the computer. All right.

On to serious stuff. Let's check the news, shall we?

More violence in Baghdad to tell you about. A rocket hit a house near a police patrol station in central Baghdad today. Four were injured, including two children and a police officer. Last night, Iraq had damaged a hotel near the conference center where Iraqi officials had signed the interim constitution this morning. Jane Arraf has the latest from Baghdad coming up in just a bit.

Attorney General John Ashcroft still in a Washington hospital. The attorney general was admitted there Thursday for severe gallstone pancreatitis. As of Saturday, he was in the hospital's intensive care unit. A Justice Department spokesman would not provide an update on Ashcroft's condition, however.

Jury selection resumes today in the double murder trial of Scott Peterson. About 200 people will fill out 23-page questionnaires in the California courtroom. Lawyers want to know how perspective jurors feel about a variety of issues, including the death penalty and whether they have lost a child. Peterson is charged with killing his wife and unborn son.

The son of baseball legend Ted Williams has died. John Henry Williams lost his life to leukemia over the weekend. The Hall of Famer's son had a tryout with the Red Sox a few years ago -- seen here. He also gained notice for a family dispute over the freezing of his father's body after his death in 2002. John Henry Williams died Saturday in California. He was 35.

And beginning today, Seattle will recognize the marriages of same-sex couples. Mayor Greg Nickels announced yesterday city workers who are married will be given equal rights whether they are heterosexual or gay. The mayor supports same-sex marriages but lacks the authority to issue the licenses. It's done by the county in the state of Washington.

S. O'BRIEN: Interesting.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: At this hour, Martha Stewart expected to meet with her probation officer. It's part of a pre-sentencing phase after her conviction on Friday for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and lying to investigators.

Deborah Feyerick is outside the federal courthouse this morning.

Deborah, first, let's start with what exactly you expect to happen at this meeting.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martha Stewart will meet with her probation officer. She'll be given a set of guidelines as to what she can and cannot do, and then she'll be told where she needs to show for her sentencing, which is just about three months from now, a little over three months from now -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We've been told that on Friday at the actual -- when the verdict was read, that Martha Stewart's demeanor did not change a bit. But what was the scene like inside the courtroom where you were? Did people let out a gasp, were people shocked? Or were they not shocked?

FEYERICK: You know, there wasn't a gasp. But when the jury first came in, I was looking very closely at them, because there's a rule that if they look at the defendant, then she's going to get off. If they don't look at her, that means that she's guilty.

A couple of jurors did look at Martha Stewart. So it just wasn't clear what it was going to be. But it was right at 2:00 word came down that a note was being circulated. First, we heard it was the jury had come in with a verdict, then, no, they were just requesting additional information.

But the marshals came in, a heavier presence there, the police -- more police came. So it was just clear that this was more than just an informational note. People were really on edge of their seat.

The U.S. attorney came down from his office and he wouldn't even confirm whether in fact there was a verdict. But he was called down. So there was a real sense of anticipation, a real sense of expectation that something was happening.

And Martha Stewart remained stoic throughout the whole thing. She had her hands on the table, her fingers sort of gently pressing the table, but her shoulders didn't sag. She looked straight ahead at the judge.

And this was as several people close to her, including her daughter, just bent over and began weeping. And it lasted for several minutes as the judge read each of the charges against Martha Stewart. So it had to have been one of the difficult days she's ever had in her life -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: No question about that. In retrospect, it's been interesting to hear what the jurors had to say. One thing they said was that Douglas Faneuil, who was on the stand for four days, they found him credible. But they actually found his testimony less important than that of Ann Armstrong, who is the assistant to Martha Stewart, who was only on the stand for one day.

What exactly did they think was more critical about Ms. Armstrong's testimony? FEYERICK: Soledad, this was so interesting when the jury member came out and said, you know, we really found Ann Armstrong to be the key to all of this. Ann Armstrong is the assistant who took down the original message left by Stewart's broker that ImClone was going to begin trading downwards.

Stewart needed Armstrong to call up the messages so she could forward everything to her lawyers. Again, that's all part of the investigation. When Stewart saw that message, she tried to change it, realized what she had done, told her assistant get the message back.

Well, Ann Armstrong testified that, with the help of an office friend, she was able to retrieve the original message. She printed out a copy to give to Martha Stewart, but then she printed out a second copy, took that copy, put it in a envelope, have the office friend sign the envelope, and then put that envelope in storage.

So while she both was fond of her boss, she also, it seems, really sort of feared her boss and had a feeling that this particular e-mail was going to come back to haunt her. The prosecution wanted to know why she took this step. Morvillo, Stewart's attorney, objected.

So we never heard the reason why she felt the need to take such a step. But I really have to believe that this is something that stayed with the jury -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Deb Feyerick for us this morning downtown.

Deborah, thanks.

Congressman James Greenwood was one of the first to refer Martha Stewart's name to the Justice Department in connection with ImClone nearly two years ago. Martha Stewart's name turned up on phone logs during a House committee investigation of ImClone chief Sam Waksal. And Congressman Greenwood, a Republican of Pennsylvania, joins us this morning from Philadelphia.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

REP. JAMES GREENWOOD (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Are you surprised days later about the conviction ever Martha Stewart or no?

GREENWOOD: Well, not terribly. I think everyone was sort of guessing as to what the outcome would be. But we could see this coming two years ago. And it's a tragedy.

This was so easily avoided. I know that about a year and a half ago I had Martha Stewart's attorney in my office and I said to him, "Look, there's an easy way out. All she has to do is say 'I made a mistake,' have a press conference, ask to pay a fine, make a contribution to something like the Enron Employees Fund and say, 'I'm doing this in the name of corporate responsibility.'"

She would have been a heroine. She would have been raised on our shoulders. And all of this would have been avoided. But for some reason...

S. O'BRIEN: But that wouldn't necessarily, though, protect her from any forthcoming charges, right? I mean, she might have taken that step, but there's always the risk there that then you are charged with insider trading, which she will have, in your scenario, just admitted to in a press conference. True?

GREENWOOD: Well, yes, but it was so clear that -- the facts in this matter, I thought, were very clear. And I can't believe that she didn't understand that she had tried to -- she had participated in this insider trading, and that she had tried to cover it up. And the Justice Department is always going to be lenient if you make a plea bargain agreement, if you don't go to court, if you admit your guilt. It's historically the smart thing to do when you've done something that you shouldn't have.

S. O'BRIEN: When you read, and I'm sure you've seen, also, some of the jurors' comments about what struck them after the conviction -- they were caught outside the courtroom -- what has struck you most about what they've had to say about this trial?

GREENWOOD: Well, I think as you just said in your point, it was the -- it was the fact of the intentional attempt to cover up by Ms. Stewart herself, altering the e-mails, very damning. The fact that she had told her vacationing friend that it was nice to have a broker who will tip you off like that.

So the facts are pretty incontrovertible in this matter. And I just for the life of me don't understand why Martha Stewart would have gone all this way through the trial knowing full well that she had done things that she shouldn't have which were not that serious. And that's the real tragedy. This woman's probably going to go to jail for what were minor offenses and then compounded by the consistent lying to the Justice Department.

S. O'BRIEN: On Friday, you said, "I wouldn't wish anybody ill, including Martha Stewart." Back in June of last year, when you were running for another term, you said this: "I've done some important work on Enron and other corporate scandals. I will probably put Martha Stewart in jail."

In the scheme of all that you've accomplished in your tenure in public service, is this something that you would say you're proud of having done?

GREENWOOD: Oh, no. I am proud of the work that I've done and that my subcommittee has done on corporate irresponsibility on the Enron case, on WorldCom, on Global Crossing, on -- we were looking not at Martha Stewart. We never had Martha Stewart in our sights as a target. We were looking at the ImClone Corporation, at Sam Waksal.

This was a very small aside in this matter. And I take not the slightest bit of joy for the fact that Ms. Stewart's going to go to jail. I think it's sad.

I tried everything in my power to help her attorneys avoid this outcome, but they were insistent. And I think she was insistent on taking this very dangerous course. And it led to where I think it inevitably would lead.

S. O'BRIEN: Congressman Greenwood, nice to see you. Thanks for being with us. Interesting insight, of course, from your perspective. Thanks.

GREENWOOD: Pleasure. Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Exiled Haitian president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, this morning is calling for peace in his strife-ridden country. His appeal comes a day after deadly gunfire erupted during an anti- Aristide demonstration in Haiti, killing at least four people near the presidential palace. U.S. Marines guarding the palace returned gunfire. It's the first time they've had to shoot since the arrived in Haiti last week.

Iraqi leaders this morning look forward to a New, free and democratic Iraq. That, as the Iraqi Governing Council signed an interim constitution into law. Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf is in the Iraqi capital with details on a historic moment there.

Hello, Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Miles. It was a historic moment that took a little while to get going. You'll recall that this signing should have taken place a couple of days ago. At that time, everything was ready, the children, the folklore, costumes, the music, and the invited guests. But the Governing Council didn't show up.

Well, they did today. And one after the other, they picked up their gold pens and put their names to this document that is meant essentially to be a framework for a New democratic, pluralistic Iraq. One, in fact, that has phenomenal features in it which are unprecedented, perhaps, anywhere. A target, for instance, that 25 percent of those elected when there are general elections be women, all kinds of guarantees.

Now, they signed this document; there's some hard work ahead. And there were also explosions bracketing this document, explosions last night, a rocket attack, another one today. But one of the Governing Council members said that the enemies of Iraq don't realize that the will of the people is stronger than their bombs. Everyone here hoping that that is indeed the case -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: It's an important step on a long road. Jane Arraf, live in Baghdad, thank you very much -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, divorcing a parent. What would make a teenager want to sever his ties with his father? We'll hear the brutal story of one young man just ahead.

M. O'BRIEN: We're learning more each day about the Red Planet. Jack Cafferty has been taking notes, loving every minute of it. But now the Mars rover has hit a small roadblock. But they love fixing this stuff out there in Pasadena.

S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, TV's favorite mob family returns. Does the newest season of "The Sopranos" deliver? Our "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in this morning. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" was top in movie ticket sales for a Second straight weekend. The controversial film about the last hours of the life of Jesus took in about $51.4 million. The film's distributor estimates that the film has earned $212 million since its release on Ash Wednesday.

Our "90-Second Pop" panel is going to have more weekend box office news a little bit later this hour -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Sure, they've revolutionized the way we look at the Red Planet by finding proof of its watery past, but is that all the Mars rovers can do? Earlier today, I talked with Michael Shara, the head of astrophysics at the American Museum of Natural History here in New York. We talked about Mars and we talked about an exciting discovery expected to be released tomorrow by the Hubble Space Telescope.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SHARA, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: This is beginning to tell you that water was really everywhere on the planet. There may have been a deep ocean or at least a deep lake covering a significant fraction of the planet. And so it wasn't just a fluke that you happen to get very lucky and find it in one place and not in another. Finding it on two opposite sides of the planet tells us that it was probably common everywhere.

M. O'BRIEN: Could have been oceans?

SHARA: Could have been oceans. We'd love to know how deep and how long ago.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So which statement is correct, where there's water there's life, or where there's life there's water?

SHARA: It's clear on Earth that there is both life and water, and water is essential to life. Not sunlight. We have life at the bottom of the deep oceans. But water isn't a proof there ever was life there. It's certainly a necessary condition on Earth, but not sufficient.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So I guess the question would be, maybe there's some fossils in those rocks?

SHARA: We'd certainly love to bring some back and take a good look.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. A big day tomorrow for folks in your realm. The Hubble Space Telescope continues to really lead a golden age of astronomy.

They're going to release a new image called the deeper field. Let's take a look at the 96 image called the deep field, which was -- Hubble was pointed at a dark piece of the sky, or so we thought, for a long period of time, several exposures, and then they discovered in excess of 1,500 galaxies that had previously not been seen before.

What's the significance of that? And what are we likely to see tomorrow?

SHARA: Well, to give you an idea as to just how many galaxies were found, if you hold up a grain of sand at arm's length, that was the piece of sky covered. And that's the piece of sky you see on the image.

We're going to be taking a picture with the Hubble Telescope -- or rather releasing a picture that's been taken over the last several months that covers four times more area, goes about four times as deep. And we're expecting 15,000 to 20,000 galaxies. And in addition...

M. O'BRIEN: Fifteen thousand to 20,000 galaxies we haven't seen before?

SHARA: That we haven't seen before, and that are at extremely large distances from us. Really galaxies from when the universe was very, very young.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. So a final thought here. There's a bit of irony that this is being released even as there's a big debate on the future of the Hubble.

NASA's administrator, Sean O'Keefe, wants to cancel that final repair mission. A lot of scientists such as yourself upset about that prospect. What do you thinks going to happen?

SHARA: Right now, there's a review under way within NASA, and there's going to be advice given to the administrator as to what to do. The images that we keep seeing from Hubble, the science that's coming back from Hubble, is better than any other instrument we've ever had. I think that all of us have our fingers crossed that NASA's going to rethink this decision. And I think we all think there's a chance that it's going to be reinstated.

M. O'BRIEN: Worth the risk of human life to fix it?

SHARA: That's always a hard one. I would say that it is the most valuable thing that NASA has done in the last 25 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: The new Hubble image will be released tomorrow morning 9:30 Eastern. Teams of astrophysicists will then embark on a weeklong race to try to be the first to decode the space objects revealed in that image -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, what if your boss suddenly became a low-level employee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN TISCH, CEO, LOEWS HOTELS: It took me three hours to do one room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: We're going to tell you why this CEO is getting his hands dirty on the job when AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: This just in to us here at CNN from the Reuters News Service. The country of Zimbabwe has seized apparently a U.S.- registered 727 which apparently carried various nationalities, 64 suspected mercenaries, according to the country of Zimbabwe, and a cargo of what is being described as military material.

That 727 was detained last night at 7:30 local time at the Harare International Airport in Zimbabwe, after the crew, according to the ininterior minister there, made a false declaration of its cargo and crew. Once again, a U.S.-registered 7272 apparently -- allegedly a planeload of mercenaries and their gear are now being held in Zimbabwe. We'll keep you posted as this story unfolds -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: On a much lighter note, as chairman of the luxurious Loews Hotel chain, Jonathan Tisch is right at home in the boardroom. But can he hack it in the mail room? Tisch is one of several executives taking part in a new series called "Now Who's Boss?" The show puts CEOs in their staffers'shoes, and Tisch spent a week getting down and dirty at the Loews Miami Beach Hotel.

Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TISCH: More garbage. How are you all doing? Whoa. Oh my god. I got my uniform dirty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: In addition to pool attendant, Tisch also took turns as housekeeper, a bell hop, and room service waiter. And I spoke to him recently about the experience and I asked him which job he liked best.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TISCH: The most fun position was being a cook. I don't do this in real life, and to watch the choreography of the eggs and the pancakes and the bacon and the toast having to come together all at the same time was frightening, but I had a blast.

S. O'BRIEN: Was it stressful? I mean, did you generally feel stress?

TISCH: Not only was it stressful, it's hot. And you're in a very tight space. And you've got 50 orders coming in at once. And the men and the women who do this on a regular basis, they have a whole choreography. They know exactly what they're doing.

And here this lug comes in who's their boss and has no clue about cooking. And it was a riot.

S. O'BRIEN: How did they treat you? Because, on one hand, they kind of need you to move things, like, "Get the eggs done, please." But on the other hand, they work for you.

TISCH: What was wonderful about the whole show is that they treated me like one of them. And that is the premise of the TLC idea for the broadcast, is take a CEO and put him in there. And they busted me. They were critical of me. And I tried to fit in as best I could.

S. O'BRIEN: What job did you like the least? What's the hardest job?

TISCH: By far and away it's housekeeping. And I have tremendous respect for the mainly ladies who do this on a regular basis. In Miami Beach, we ask them to do 14 rooms a day. And so they're lifting and they're bending over and they're carrying -- lifting up the beds to do the hospital corners, and they're in the bathroom with the showers and the toilets.

So it's physically challenging, but also it's mentally challenging because it's lonely. They do this by themselves. And 14 times a day they open a door and they don't know what to expect.

S. O'BRIEN: Were you surprised when you opened the door to some of these rooms, that you had to go clean them?

TISCH: Surprise it isn't the word. I was shocked.

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

TISCH: And I know this is a big concept, but people don't treat hotel rooms so nicely. And they figure they're paying and they're going to do what they want. And it literally takes your breath away to open the door and go, "Whoa, this room's going to take a long time."

Our housekeepers do the rooms in about a half-hour. It took me three hours to do one room.

S. O'BRIEN: You don't do a lot of housekeeping?

TISCH: I try in my apartment. S. O'BRIEN: You actually had a really nice meeting with some of the housekeeping staff. And you spoke to them very, I thought, sweetly about just how much you respect their work. Let's listen to what you had to say.

TISCH: I'll tell you, after doing your job yesterday, I have so much respect for what all of you ladies do.

(APPLAUSE)

S. O'BRIEN: Tell me why you said that to them?

TISCH: One of the reasons I wanted to do the show was to have a better understanding of something that I knew already, which is the concept that our employees are more responsible for our success as a hotel company than in many ways I am. So to go down there, and having done the housekeeping position, and look at the 35 individuals who do this every single day on a particular shift, and also to understand that they're from 12 different nations, they speak six different languages, and somehow every single day this has to come together to turn over an 800-room hotel, and make the beds and clean the bathrooms. So I just wanted to tell them that I appreciate what they do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: The series is called "Now Who's Boss?" It premieres tonight at 10:00 Eastern, and that's on "The Learning Channel" -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, after 15 months away, "The Sopranos" are back in business. Our "90-Second Pop" panelists have their reviews coming up.

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING, or else.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: And good morning. And welcome back, everybody. Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Miles O'Brien is sitting in for Bill Hemmer, who is out today.

So thank you very much.

M. O'BRIEN: It's good to be here on the home stretch, especially.

S. O'BRIEN: Especially the last half-hour. It's really good.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Florida's Cuban voters might be in play. We're going to hear why the Republicans still have to campaign for their votes even if the Cubans say they don't plan to vote for Senator John Kerry. That's just ahead. M. O'BRIEN: Also, we'll hear from a boy who wants his father out of his life. It's because of what his father did to the boy's mother. But a judge won't grant his request. We'll explain.

S. O'BRIEN: A complicated story there.

Let's get right to our top stories this morning. There are reports coming in that Zimbabwe has seized a U.S.-registered cargo plane carrying 64 suspected mercenaries, and military material as well. Reuters News Agency is reporting that the Boeing 727 was detained last night at Harae International Airport. In a statement, Zimbabwe's interior minister has said that the plane was detained after its owners made a "false declaration" of its cargo and crew. Stay with CNN for more on this developing story.

Martha Stewart is expected to meet with a probation officer today. The jury deliberated for 12 hours before convicting her Friday of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and two counts of making false statements. Her sentencing is now scheduled for June 17. Stewart still faces a civil insider trading lawsuit brought by the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The probe into possible cadaver theft at the University of California is expanding. Henry Reid, director of UCLA's Willed Body Program, was arrested over the weekend. He and another man have been linked to the illegal sale of bodies and body parts that were donated to the university for research. The university says there may be more arrests.

Singer Courtney Love is scheduled to stand trial starting today on charges of being under the influence of a controlled substance. Love's two criminal cases were delayed after she dismissed her attorney. The 39-year-old performer is also charged with drug possession. She's scheduled to have a preliminary hearing on those charges next week.

In golf, Craig Parry stuns the crowd with this incredible shot from 176 yards out. He also beat Scott Verplank in a playoff for the Ford Championship at the Doral in Miami. The 38-year-old Australian grabbed his victory on the blue monster signature hole.

Look at that. One of the toughest holes on the tour this year. And I like the way the announcer called it. "It's in the hole. No, it's still in the air."

M. O'BRIEN: If you say that enough times, one of these time you'd be right.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: A parent-child bond is something many people would never want to see broken. But what happens when one of the parents is convicted of murdering the other?

The father of Patrick Holland is serving a life sentence for killing his mother in 1998. Patrick found the body in their Quincy, Massachusetts, home. He was only eight at the time. Now, at age 14, he would like to sever ties with his dad, but it's a very difficult battle, as it turns out.

Patrick Holland, and his legal guardians, Rita and Ronald Lazisky, join us now to talk a little bit about this.

Welcome to you all. I know this is a very tough subject for you all to deal with and share with a national audience. But we'll give it a try.

Patrick, first of all, how are you doing some six years later?

PATRICK HOLLAND, FOUGHT TO CUT TIES WITH FATHER: I'm doing all right.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes? What's life like?

HOLLAND: Well, I live in a little town that no one ever heard of.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. In New Hampshire...

HOLLAND: In New Hampshire.

M. O'BRIEN: ... and your guardians here. Just because they're here, you can tell us the truth, how is life with them? You're doing well?

HOLLAND: Yes. I enjoy it.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Good grades in school and so forth?

HOLLAND: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. OK. But, you know, at least showing up, anyhow?

HOLLAND: Yes, I'm showing up.

M. O'BRIEN: How is he doing from your perspective? What would you say?

RITA LAZISKY, PATRICK'S LEGAL GUARDIAN: He's doing very well. I mean, there have been some hard times, difficult times he's gone through. But overall I think he's adjusting well.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

Patrick, at what point do you recall making a decision that you wanted to sever any sort of legal relationship with your father? When did that occur to you?

HOLLAND: Well, a few years ago, maybe three. He said that he wanted to get my school records, my baseball records, and how I'm doing in counseling.

M. O'BRIEN: For what purpose? Just to...

HOLLAND: Just to see how I'm doing, I guess. And a loving parent would want to see how the kids are doing, you know? But obviously he's not a loving parent. Because if he was, why would he leave me to find my mother's dead body?

M. O'BRIEN: So even as he sits in prison, he has that right to get those records?

HOLLAND: Yes -- legally, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: And so your reaction to that was what?

HOLLAND: Well, it just angered me very much, that he would want to do that. If he really cared, then just stay out of my life.

M. O'BRIEN: Now, the way this is played out, some of the problem is a bit jurisdictional. You're in New Hampshire; this all took place in Massachusetts. But what so far has the judge indicated about the prospects of this happening?

HOLLAND: Excuse me?

M. O'BRIEN: Has the judge indicated whether there's a good chance legally to do this?

HOLLAND: You need to talk to Ron.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Go ahead, Ron. We'll have you dive into the legal waters. What are you hearing from attorneys and the legal system in general?

RONALD LAZISKY, PATRICK'S LEGAL GUARDIAN: Well, the judge -- you're correct. The judge indicated that it's more jurisdictional, as you said. And my problem is that I'm trying to get answers to it. And I can't get the answers to why it went on for over a year with five continuances.

M. O'BRIEN: So the judge continued this for as long as a year, and then ultimately ruled not his jurisdiction?

R. LAZISKY: Right. And to make matters worse, two years, maybe three years ago, my wife and I received a written order from him that we could not go to any other court other than his. So we were obeying his rules by going to his court and filing the petition. And all of a sudden, he wants to wash his hands of it.

M. O'BRIEN: So it's important for you to get this squared away, as I'm sure -- but the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly.

HOLLAND: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you have the patience to go through all this?

HOLLAND: Well, you know, I hope that I can get through it all. You know, I don't plan on giving up anytime soon. But, I mean, it just -- I don't know why they'd do that.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you optimistic that you will prevail ultimately?

HOLLAND: Yes. I know I'm going to prevail.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Well, we wish you all well in the battle. And we're sorry you had to go through the fight in this way. And thank you very much for being with us, Patrick Holland, Rita and Ronald Lazisky. Thank you. Appreciate it -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Political news now. Some 455 Democratic National Convention delegates are at stake tomorrow. Four southern states, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas, will hold primaries. The most closely watched contest, though, will be in Florida. The Sunshine State is worth 27 electoral votes in November.

Senator John Kerry is making campaign stops there today. President Bush has made 19 visits since he took office.

John Zarrella in Miami for us this morning.

John, good morning.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, Senator Kerry certainly should have enough of those delegates after tomorrow's primaries to pretty much sew up the Democratic nomination, if it isn't already sewn up. He's here today in Florida, right now in Hollywood, Florida, at a campaign stop. At noon, he'll be in West Palm Beach. And then tonight, he'll be in Tampa, showing just how pivotal Florida is expected to be once again come November. But there is one group of voters that Senator Kerry cannot count on for support.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Florida, political experts say, is a difficult state for any candidate. The message has to appeal to a diverse population: retired and active military, elderly voters, affluent young suburbanites and minorities. Among them, traditionally Republican Cuban-Americans. One party message, maintaining a tough stance against Fidel Castro, has for decades played well in south Florida.

PEPE LOPEZ, HISPANIC INDEPENDENTS: Whoever wants to win Florida, better come here and better say what we want to hear. I mean, I'm not even going to say do what we want them to do, because I know in 41 years they haven't done it. But at least I want to hear it.

ZARRELLA: Among a large majority of Cuban-American voters, President Bush is still their man. But recently, there have been uncharacteristic grumblings. The Cuban-American National Foundation, once a powerful Republican ally, has expressed frustration that the administration hasn't done enough to put pressure on Castro. But so far, political science professor Dario Mareno says Democrats haven't taken advantage of the opening. DARIO MARENO, FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY: The Democrats' problem in Florida is that they haven't had a very powerful outreach program toward Hispanics.

ZARRELLA: Even if Democratic candidate John Kerry doesn't strike a chord with Cuban voters, the Republicans can't, political analyst Jim Kane says, rely on the old saying, who else are they going to vote for?

JIM KANE, POLITICAL ANALYST: It doesn't work with Cuban- Americans, because they'll stay home and sit on their hands and turnout will drop dramatically. And the Republican candidate can't win Florida without an energized Cuban-American vote.

ZARRELLA: That energized vote is one Republicans have counted on. And the president will, no doubt, do everything he can to make sure it stays that way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now a new poll just released over the weekend of 800 voters, shows that Senator Kerry right now leading President Bush 49 percent to 43 percent. Of course, a lot of political experts saying that's the bounce factor. He's doing really well right now coming out of Super Tuesday, and that they expect it to shift back and forth many times between now and November. So we're in for an interesting ride here in Florida -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: No question about that. John Zarrella for us this morning. John, thanks.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, when the so-called Oracle of Omaha talks, investors listen. Warren Buffett issues his annual letter to share holders. Andy will share some details.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, the nation's favorite organized crime family is back from its 15-month hiatus. Reviews of last night's season premiere with our "90-Second Pop" panel is just ahead.

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: We're going to do a "best of" clips from -- audio clips only from "90-Second Pop." Welcome, everybody. It's time for "90-Second Pop."

Today's hot topics are a TV mob seen. You've seen some of those there. Jesus still a superstar. And also a very bad day for Martha. We're going to talk about all that with humorist Andy Borowitz. Also, Toure, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone." And Sam Rubin, entertainment reporter for KTLA out in Los Angeles.

Nice to have you, Sam. Welcome, because first time.

SAM RUBIN, REPORTER, KTLA ENTERTAINMENT: First time right here, yes, on the hot seat, to be sure.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. You've been on our show a million times. First time on "90-Second Pop."

Let's talk about Martha. Toure, you want to -- are you shocked?

TOURE, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE": No, I wasn't shocked. I mean, like five minutes before, we were all e- mailing around. And a lot of people were saying guilty, guilty, guilty.

This is the year of comeuppance, where the high and mighty will fall. She is first. Michael Eisner is coming.

Kobe Bryant, I'm sorry, is going to fall. Jayson Williams absolutely is going to fall -- R. Kelly. I mean, it's just going to be a year of watching these mighty people redefine their whole career.

S. O'BRIEN: Great time to be alive.

RUBIN: You know, everyone had this aspiration to be -- what's better than being famous and someone like Martha Stewart, completely control of your own destiny? Now it turns out that isn't necessarily the case. And no sympathy. Nobody seems to be the least bit sorry for her.

S. O'BRIEN: You don't think anyone's -- I know some people who feel like...

RUBIN: I think they feel badly for the circumstance, but they don't feel badly for her.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about a lighter topic. How sad is that, "The Sopranos." I wasn't even trying for the joke there, wow. I didn't stay up to see it because it's just way too late for me.

RUBIN: You know, the thing about "The Sopranos" is, like, god forbid this be a 120-second pop, that TV has it pacing, pacing, pacing, pacing. This is a show that takes its time.

The opening sequence has respect for the viewers. It's like, let's all come back in. And, you know, everybody can say this, and it's the best show on television.

S. O'BRIEN: Did you love...

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It's going to get better next week because (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is joining the show.

TOURE: Yes. I mean, this is like A-Rod joining the Yankees. One of the great actors of Hollywood who plays this wonderful villain all the time joining this great cast of villains. I mean, the best show on TV, it's the easiest thing to say.

BOROWITZ: I mean, the only other villain they could add is Trump at this point.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk about some weekend movies. "Starsky and Hutch," which looks really funny, is it good?

TOURE: It was so much fun. Snoop Dog is awesome; Owen Wilson is a comic genius. It was just so much fun.

BOROWITZ: And you know what? I know there's been a lot of controversy, but it is not anti-Semitic.

RUBIN: I think comic genius because, I tell you what, Snoop Dog, to a degree, walks away with this. I don't think it's necessarily that hard to do. I think Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller kind of walk through it. But the fact is, audiences, most movie-going audiences, aren't necessarily familiar with the show, and it still did very well.

S. O'BRIEN: Did he just say we're old because we know the show?

RUBIN: No, no.

TOURE: No, he's saying were young, not old enough to know the show.

RUBIN: You know, Ben Stiller had this -- Ben Stiller himself had this terrible worry. You know, he's like, I'm vaguely familiar with this. But that show was on a long time ago.

S. O'BRIEN: I remember it very clearly.

(CROSSTALK)

TOURE: They get the tone right, they get the car right, they get the cameos. It was so much fun.

S. O'BRIEN: I want to see that. "The Passion" big surprise that it has.

RUBIN: It's "Jesus Christ Superstar" again. It is extraordinary.

What has happened here is the movie business, they always talk about the elasticity at the box office.

S. O'BRIEN: We know what you mean.

RUBIN: It's really -- that's why I don't do that "IN THE MONEY" show. It's astounding. I mean, what he's done, Mel Gibson, has brought people to the movies who haven't gone to the movies for a very long time.

TOURE: Can we talk about the casting, though, for a moment. I mean, like, it's supposed to be as it was in the bible. But they choose a white Jesus, as we have been typically seeing since the 14th century.

(CROSSTALK) TOURE: It's funny, but -- no, but it's not. I mean, like if Mel Gibson really had courage, choose a black Jesus. That's what it says literally in the bible. Don't choose somebody that's going to be good for America now.

S. O'BRIEN: OK. And on that, Mel, we loved it, except it should have been a black Jesus. You guys, Andy and Toure, and also Sam, nice to have you. Thanks, you guys, as always -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, it wasn't long ago that Wall Street was all smiles when Martha Stewart came to visit. How is it treating her stock today?

Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Do you have the "Question of the Day" Jack?

CAFFERTY: You know what I'd like to see, I'd like to see the bill that Martha Stewart got from that guy who put up a one-hour defense and put one witness on the stand.

M. O'BRIEN: Mr. Morvillo?

S. O'BRIEN: Definitely about $45,000, which I think is what she cleared from the sale.

CAFFERTY: I wonder what those guys charged her for that so- called defense. I would love to see that. Martha, send us a copy of that bill.

If you were John Kerry, what would you do differently in Iraq? Judy in St. Petersburg, Florida, writes: "I'd get in touch with Iraqi- Americans, perhaps other Muslims in this country, and ask them to help guide efforts to rebuild Iraq. I don't think a purely western approach has much chance."

A writes: "Think more like Kucinich. Use transcendental meditation for world peace."

Mel writes about Kerry's waffle plan. "Day one: pull American troops, turn job over to the U.N. Feed America's poor waffles to build stamina, draft them into the new peacekeeping force, which can then be sent to Iraq as our U.N. troop quota."

"Day two: no, no sending jobs overseas. Feed the poor and leave them at home, increase taxes to buy oil from the Middle East in order to fuel unmanned surveillance planes to look for bin Laden."

"Day three: send a message to terrorists, bring it on."

Mark writes from Ann Arbor, Michigan, "Kerry will need to rebuild the international coalition, the people around Bush tore apart. One other thing he should do is to put Miles O'Brien in charge of NASA and then Miles can have endless Mars minutes."

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Uncle Mark. Appreciate that.

S. O'BRIEN: And thank you very much, Jack.

CAFFERTY: What the world needs is endless Mars minutes.

S. O'BRIEN: It can't hurt.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Coming up on CNN this morning, the U.S. War in Afghanistan is the subject of a critical report being issued today by a human rights organization. The Pentagon's response is coming up in the next hour on "CNN LIVE TODAY". We're back in a moment

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: That's it. We're out of time this morning. Thanks, everybody.

Let's go to Carol Costello at the CNN Center. She's going to take you through the next few hours on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

Hey, Carol. Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. How are you feeling, Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Really icky, actually. But thank you for asking.

M. O'BRIEN: How do you feel? You got up early.

COSTELLO: I did. But I'm so used to it. And after 12 cups of coffee, it doesn't matter. I'm flying, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: No naps during the three hours then, right?

COSTELLO: No, not at all.

S. O'BRIEN: I don't need no sleep.

COSTELLO: Exactly. You guys have a great day. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Enjoy the caffeine.





Greenwood; New Era in Iraq>