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PAULA ZAHN NOW

How is Martha Stewart Coping?; Penalty Box or Prison for Violent NHL Players?

Aired March 10, 2004 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening and welcome. I'm Paul Zahn. Thanks so much for joining us.
It's Wednesday, March 10, 2004.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): One of America's most successful celebrity careers is reeling. How is Martha Stewart coping with the aftershocks? I'll ask a longtime friend who spoke with her just yesterday.

Sure, the NHL is rough, but a cheap shot and a broken neck have police investigating. Do violent players belong in the penalty box or behind bars?

And competitive swimmers, they shave their heads, even their legs, for just a little more speed. Now modeled on shark skin, we'll show you the smoothest, snuggest, fast swimsuit ever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: All that and more tonight, but, first, here are some of the headlines you need to know right now.

Washington area sniper Lee Boyd Malvo was sentenced to life without parole by a Virginia judge today. Even though he was the trigger man in 13 shootings, the jury recommended against the death penalty. Yesterday, co-defendant John Allen Muhammad was sentenced to death.

Haiti's new prime minister returned to the island today and said he will consider restoring the Haitian military. Exiled leader Jean- Bertrand Aristide had disbanded it after a military coup in 1991. A peacekeeping force led by about 1,600 U.S. Marines remain in Haiti to help restore some order there.

And former rivals Howard Dean and John Kerry met for nearly an hour today. Dean said both were committed to jobs, health care, the environment and beating President Bush. Dean has not yet officially endorsed Kerry.

"In Focus" tonight, Martha Stewart and the aftershock of the guilty verdict. How is such a successful woman reacting now to the possibility of financial failure and maybe even time in prison? Joining us now from Atlanta, someone who spoke with Stewart just yesterday. Salli LaGrone has known Stewart for 25 years. And they are such close friends that Stewart is her son's godmother.

Salli, thanks so much for joining us tonight.

SALLI LAGRONE, FRIEND OF MARTHA STEWART: You're welcome, Paula.

ZAHN: How is Martha Stewart holding up?

LAGRONE: She is a very resilient and strong woman. She has a lot of inner strength. She is holding up. It's a very sad time and she has a lot to cope with at this point and a lot to process.

ZAHN: What is she the most worried about, the possibility of going to prison?

LAGRONE: You know, we never even discuss that. Our conversation yesterday really revolved around what I could do to help her at this point in time. When you have a friend who's in trouble, you care so much about them and you want to be there for them. And so that was the crux of our conversation.

ZAHN: Was she emotional during your conversation?

LAGRONE: She was on a very even keel. She was sad, but she was on a very even keel.

ZAHN: Without completely violating her privacy, what is it that she needs right now from you?

LAGRONE: Well, I will certainly write a letter to the judge. I am more than happy to do that. I will do whatever she needs at this point in time.

ZAHN: And what do you think the judge should hear from you?

LAGRONE: I think the judge needs to know the person that I know, as opposed to the personality that has almost become a caricature on the media.

ZAHN: And some of those accounts have been pretty damning.

Let's go through some of the characterizations of Martha made by some prominent people. Andrea Peyser of "The New York Post" called Martha a billionairess with piggish manners and a sense of entitlement as deep as her bank account. Christopher Byron, who wrote a biography on her, said -- quote -- "Martha learned early on in life that B.S. sells, and she peddled her con job spiel wherever it fetched the highest price."

And finally, in court, an e-mail written by Douglas Faneuil said this: "I've never been treated more rudely by a stranger on the telephone. She actually hung up on me."

How do you reconcile the Martha Stewart you know with these rather vicious accounts we've seen featured quite prominently in newspapers around the country?

LAGRONE: You know, Paula, I don't think I have to reconcile that.

The person I know is someone who's been loyal to people. You look at her company. She has employees who have been with her for many, many years, who have been brought up through the ranks. She's -- the person I know is generous. She's very curious. She's very intelligent. She's very inquisitive. She is very dependable. And I don't have to reconcile other people's opinions, because the person I know is my friend.

ZAHN: Do you think she's honest?

LAGRONE: I do. I've never had any experience in my life to doubt that.

ZAHN: So when the verdict came down, what was your reaction?

LAGRONE: I was stunned and numb. As her friend, I'm having to process this and be there for her. That's what I feel like I need to do right now.

ZAHN: And, basically, if you were to lump all the convictions together, it would leave you with the conclusion that Martha Stewart is a liar. How much does that hurt, knowing you -- the way you say you know Martha?

LAGRONE: That's just never been in my experience.

But when I step back at look at everything that's happened over the last couple of years, it looks as though something that's totally spiraled out of control. One of my friend's analogy is, it's like clobbering an ant with a baseball bat.

ZAHN: Do you think she was targeted because she was a celebrity?

LAGRONE: I think that that thought crosses many people's minds.

ZAHN: You last saw Martha Stewart in January right before the trial got under way. Did she express confidence at that time that she'd get through this without a conviction?

LAGRONE: Yes, she did.

ZAHN: And why do you think she was so sure of that?

LAGRONE: Because, in our conversations, you know, she has said to me that the charges she's not guilty of.

ZAHN: And based on what the jurors decided, what conclusion have you arrived at today?

LAGRONE: That's not something I'm going to do, Paula. I've stepped back. I've been involved with juries on multiple occasions. And, you know, a jury does its job, you hope. But I, again, don't want to second-guess the jury.

ZAHN: I know you haven't talked about prison time with Martha. But you know that it is a distinct possibility for her. What's going to be the hardest part of that for her, if that's where she ends up?

LAGRONE: I think it's a situation that anyone in -- anyone in her shoes, it will be difficult, but she does have this great inner strength. I think she will work her way through it. I do. I don't know what will be the hardest part of it. I don't know what would be the hardest part if I were in that situation, nor if you were in that situation.

So I think that's when I say you have to take one step at a time, one day at a time and go forward. And that's a lot of what we did in our conversation is, we're taking the next step, rather than trying to look at what may happen several months down the road.

ZAHN: Do you have any hope that she will not go to prison?

LAGRONE: Well, that would be our greatest hope.

ZAHN: So you haven't given up on that yet?

LAGRONE: And I'm not going to, not until the sentencing actually takes place.

(CROSSTALK)

LAGRONE: And the appeals have gone through a process.

ZAHN: Well, Salli LaGrone, we very much appreciate your joining us tonight. Thank you so much for your time.

LAGRONE: You're very welcome, Paula.

ZAHN: And Martha Stewart is the cover story of "People" magazine this week.

Joining us now with our first look at new information on Stewart's reaction to the verdict and what has happened since then, "People"'s Sharon Cotliar.

Always good to see you.

SHARON COTLIAR, "PEOPLE": Thanks. Nice to be here.

ZAHN: So what did Martha do right after the verdict came down?

COTLIAR: It was pretty emotional, actually.

A few minutes after the verdict, she went upstairs to her fourth- room war room where they've been through six-week trial. And one of the first things she did is, she called her mother and she broke the news to her and she started off just gently saying, it is bad news.

ZAHN: And do we know how the conversation progressed from there? COTLIAR: Well, we know that Alexis was crying by her side.

ZAHN: Her daughter.

COTLIAR: Her daughter Alexis was crying.

And that her mother, she's still consoling on her phone. And then the defense team was completely dejected. This isn't what they expected. A lot of them thought it was going to go the other way.

ZAHN: And is it true they made an apology to Martha, in as many words?

COTLIAR: Yes. Her lawyer, Morvillo, I'm told by multiple people said: We failed you. I'm so sorry.

And she was very gracious. She apparently told them they did the best they could, but she said the last two years have been pure torture.

ZAHN: And have they conceded what they thought their biggest mistake was?

COTLIAR: I don't know that they conceded a mistake. I think they read the tea leaves differently. They saw the fact the jury hadn't asked any questions about the evidence against Martha as a positive sign.

ZAHN: And tell us a little bit about Martha Stewart spent her weekend after -- oh, I'm going to sneeze. So sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Excuse me.

COTLIAR: That's quite all right.

ZAHN: What did she do?

COTLIAR: She had -- her sister came over, her sister, Laura Plimpton. Her brother, George Christensen (ph), came over, her mother. Alexis was with her.

And I'm told that, on Sunday, she even had it in her to exercise and whip up a latte and bring it to her friend, Susan Warburg. And they were on the treadmill and they talked. And she even had it in her to ask about her garden.

ZAHN: That takes some presence of mind.

Let's talk a little bit about her sister, who you have spoken with, Laurie Plimpton.

COTLIAR: Yes. ZAHN: Did you learn anything new from her?

COTLIAR: Well, Laura Plimpton just expressed the fact that it's been very painful for the family and particularly painful for them to watch the glee that some people have had in reporting this story. This is -- her sister is going through a terrible time, obviously, and it is hard for her to watch people sort of chuckle at it.

ZAHN: What's the latest information on what's going to happen to her company and whether she's going to step down and what the next machination is?

COTLIAR: Well, my understanding is, they haven't made any official decisions. But I'm told that they're leaning toward letting Martha relinquish her seat, but maintain a creative role.

ZAHN: And that's what she's fighting to do, to maintain some kind of creative control.

COTLIAR: Yes. Absolutely.

ZAHN: Sharon Cotliar, thank you for taking us inside the story.

COTLIAR: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time.

And a surprising new study out shows that members of the U.S. Senate make much more money in the market than the average investor. What do they know that we don't?

And the Internet, fertile ground for political money. Activist groups are raising millions to run ads that attack the left or the right. But are they breaking the rules of money in politics?

And look at this. A player gets beaten and bruised. His neck is broken. Is it just another tough hockey game or a serious game of premeditated assault?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Some startling new figures tonight in a study by four universities which looked at money and Congress.

During the stock market boom of the '90s, members of the U.S. Senate saw their investments beat the market by an average of 12 percentage points a year, not bad at all when you compare that to corporate insiders, who beat the market by 5 percentage points. And then, of course, there's the average investor, who underperformed the market by about 1 percentage point a year.

We're going to give this the "High Five" treatment tonight, five quick questions, five quick answers, straight and to the point.

We turn to CNN contributor and "Fortune" magazine editor at large Andy Serwer, who has been studying the numbers. And he joins us now. Good to see you.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Paula.

ZAHN: Question No. 1, did these senators do anything illegal?

SERWER: Well, we don't really know from looking at this study.

What this study is saying is the senators did very, very well in the stock market. The question is did they use insider information to get that kind of outperformance?

ZAHN: Could it be that they had access to great financial advice?

SERWER: Well, that's a great question, because, you know, of course, these people are in the loop like no other Americans. They're constantly privy to the workings of not only Congress, but big companies as well. And if that's what they were doing, that's totally OK.

ZAHN: Question No. 3, why are they outperforming corporate insiders?

SERWER: Well, you know, no one's supposed to do better than anybody else. That's the whole point. That's why inside information is illegal. Insiders aren't supposed to trade on illegal information. Senators aren't.

You and I aren't supposed to do that at all. It is supposed to be a level playing field. But when you see one group doing that much better than another group, you want to ask why.

ZAHN: Question four, are there the returns the result of the '90s boom or could you see the same kind of returns today?

SERWER: Well, I think the point here, Paula, is that they did better than the stock market. It really doesn't matter that they did better during the boom or if they did better during the crash or they're doing better today. The point is, they are doing better than the market, significantly better for a significant period of time, and this study wants us to ask why.

ZAHN: All right, so what can the rest of us learn from how the senators make their profits?

SERWER: Well, I think the big point here is the way the senators stock trades are disclosed is really a bad system.

The reports -- I have John Kerry's disclosure report from 2002. It is 80 pages. It is difficult to get through. Why is it that U.S. senators and representatives are scrutinized less than CEOs or even average Americans? These reports are difficult to go through. I think this study shows that this system cries out for reform.

ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by tonight. Appreciate it. SERWER: OK.

ZAHN: In the campaign for president, the accusations fly over intelligence and security. Did John Kerry vote for huge cuts in intelligence spending before 9/11? We'll call in "Truth Squad."

And what happens when high-tech designers get their hands on a bathing suit? Check this out. We're going to show you why they call it the world's fastest swimwear.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: President Bush likes to point out that Democrat John Kerry voted to cut America's intelligence budget during the '90s. It is a powerful argument during this presidential race. But how accurate is it?

Well, we're calling in the "Truth Squad" on this one.

National security correspondent David Ensor filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the surface, the president's charge is simple, that Senator Kerry once tried to slash the budget for U.S. intelligence.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's for good intelligence, yet he was willing to get the intelligence services. And that is no way to lead a nation in a time of war.

ENSOR: But the reality is more complex.

True, back in '95, Senator Kerry did propose to cut the intelligence budget by $300 million a year for five years. Out of a classified intelligence budget believed to have been around $29 billion, that's a roughly 1 percent cut. And, true, the president's charge against Kerry is making Democrats uneasy.

SEN. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: Hypothetically, would a 1 percent, say, reduction in your budget for each of five years -- quote, unquote -- "gut" your agency and its intelligence-gathering capabilities?

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Let me say that, in the mid-'90s it wouldn't have been helpful.

DAYTON: Would it have gut, would it have gut, in that vernacular?

TENET: No $300 million cut is going to gut your intelligence capability.

ENSOR: But here's some context. In 1995, the supersecret National Reconnaissance Office had just shocked Congress by building a very opulent headquarters for $300 million, using money it had secretly tucked away over the years. Congress soon learned that the NRO had at least $900 million more hidden in secret accounts in reserve for future cost overruns on their spy satellites.

JAMES BAMFORD, AUTHOR, "BODY OF SECRETS": The reason for proposing these bills was because they thought that the NRO was squirreling money away in like a little piggy bank and then refusing to tell Congress that they had this piggy bank. So instead of giving the NRO money the next year, they just said, take the money out of your piggy bank and use that.

ENSOR (on camera): And, in fact, Republican Senator Arlen Specter co-sponsored a bill which became law cutting $900 million from intelligence in just one year. Back then, looking for savings at the end of the Cold War and reforming the NRO were bipartisan projects.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Internet Web sites are raising unprecedented amounts of cash for political attack ads. New rules were supposed to control that. Are activists playing fast and loose with the law?

And a vicious attack puts a hockey player out for the season with serious injuries, including a broken neck. Is it all just part of the game or should behavior like this be prosecuted?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Welcome back.

Here are some of the headlines you need to know right now. An aide to Republican Senator John McCain says McCain will not be Democrat John Kerry's running mate. That statement came after today's McCain's morning show appearance today in which he refused to absolutely rule out that possibility.

McCain also said today, if Major League Baseball isn't cracking down on steroid use, Congress will. The senator heads the Senate Commerce Committee, which held a hearing on steroid use today. He accused baseball of refusing to confront the issue head on.

And a new finding in the fight against breast cancer. A study in "The Journal of the American Medical Association" found that young women who have had anorexia run a lower risk of getting breast cancer. That's an indication that calorie intake early on in life has something to do with breast cancer, but researchers also warn that girls and women shouldn't start starving themselves to avoid breast cancer.

And in suburban Philadelphia, the search continues for a missing actress who worked in the porn industry.

Sally Ann Mosey reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALLY ANN MOSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Natel King, who also uses the name Taylor Sumers, has been missing since February 29. The 23-year-old adult model and actress was last seen in Conshohocken, reportedly on a photo shoot. Canadian police contacted local authorities on Thursday requesting help with a missing person investigation.

RISA FERMAN, ASST. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: At this point, there is no evidence of foul play. And it is just as likely that she went off on her own somewhere as she's been the victim of something. So right now, we're just retracing her steps and doing everything we can to find out where she has been and where she is now.

MOSEY: Last Friday, police came to this house at 105 West Third Avenue looking for the woman, but only found her car, a 1992 Red Saturn Coupe.

Authorities say she was last seen walking down Fayette Street toward a local pub. George Prislupski lives on the second floor of the three-tenant building. He says no one actually lives on the first floor, but for the past several months, someone has been using the downstairs apartment in the evenings.

GEORGE PRISLUPSKI JR., NEIGHBOR: I have seen a few girls going in and out during the course of the time, mainly nighttime hours only. I've never anybody going in and out during the day. However, at nighttime, you would hear the music and stuff like that.

GEORGE PRISLUPSKI SR., NEIGHBOR: We heard knocks on the door and we would let people in. I thought he was, you know, just photographer with models. But I didn't know what really it was actually coming down to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Well, police are talking to other models, exotic dancers and people involved in the video production in that area.

Meanwhile, time to talk politics. The Dean campaign sputtered out, but the Internet lives on as a powerful force in this year's election. Online activist groups are raising so much cash, especially on the left, that they've become major players on the media front in the war for the White House. They're also racing a lot of controversy.

Kathleen Koch has that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As much as Democrats love it...

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I want to especially thank MoveOn.org.

KOCH: Republicans loathe it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not appropriate political discourse.

KOCH: But everyone agrees MoveOn.org is changing American politics. From the living room of the California couple that started it in 1998, the liberal grassroots Web site has ballooned to some two million active contributing members.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This song is a song and a prayer for peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: MoveOn has mobilized massive anti-war protests, jammed Capitol Hill phones and faxes, and raised millions for hard-hitting ads, including one calling the president a liar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

BUSH: Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL GREEN, RIGHTMARCH.COM: MoveOn.org keeps us pretty busy.

KOCH: Bill Green helped launch the conservative Web site RightMarch.com a year ago, one of many trying to blunt the liberal organization's impact.

GREEN: Whenever, say, MoveOn takes a particular action, we very quickly put together a counteraction, a countermove.

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Like MoveOn.org, we seek to build a community of millions and strengthen the voice of our people.

KOCH: Howard Dean adopted MoveOn's tactics, giving him an early boost. Even the Bush-Cheney campaign has focused its initial efforts toward online constituents, releasing its first campaign ad not on TV, but on the Internet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They really have shown people that the Internet is hospitable not just to protests, but for establishment politics as well. MoveOn has shown people how to use the Internet to work the system.

KOCH: And, say observers, shown Democrat how to get tough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Made the Democratic Party a little more aggressive, and in some ways, a little more like how the Republican Party has been. The Republican Party is very much, much more unified in its message.

KOCH (on camera): But some point out, MoveOn hasn't been able to change policy here at the White House or on Capitol Hill. (voice-over): Organizers insist they're getting closer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'd love to see one day that ordinary people actually can effectively counter in all circumstances big money and special interests. And that day is probably a ways off, but we're going to move towards it.

KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And today another group called the Media Fund began running ads in 17 states targeting the president. Is this free speech or are these groups breaking the law? It is radio host versus radio host tonight. Martha Zoeller is a conservative radio talk show host at WDUN in Atlanta. And Bernie Ward takes the liberal view at station KGO in San Francisco. Welcome to both of you.

Martha, we're start off this evening by looking at the end of one of these Media Fund ads that began running today. Let's watch it together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: George Bush's priorities are eroding the American dream. It's time to take our country back from corporate greed and make America work for every American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Sounds about just like every other political ad we've heard this season. Is there -- is it illegal?

MARTHA ZOELLER, WDUN RADIO: Well, I don't know if it's illegal yet, but it certainly is teetering on the edge. They're not talking about where their money comes from. And it is a federal office. There are different criteria. The Supreme Court ruled on that already.

But what's interesting is moveon.org hasn't gotten people out to the polls. The lowest turnout for Democratic primaries with the exception of Iowa and New Hampshire. They didn't get people out to vote for Howard Dean. So, I think they're a nonissue.

ZAHN: Well, let's move on to what John McCain had to say, Bernie, about these groups so-called 527s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: It's plain as the nose on your face that these 527s are engaged in partisan political activity. They should be regulated under those rules. I don't know what we should do if the FEC does not act. But I know one thing that we will do, we'll go to court.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ZAHN: Can you really argue, Bernie, that moveon.org and the Media Fund are nonpartisan?

BERNIE WARD, KGO RADIO: Well, first of all, if moveon.org hasn't been able to accomplish anything, then why are people like Martha and the Republicans so concerned about them? Why is the Republican National Committee sending out letters to 250 television stations saying if they run any these ads, we'll take you to court and cost you a lot of money. If they're a nonissue, then I don't understand why the Republicans are wasting all their money.

ZAHN: They're partisan, aren't they Bernie?

WARD: As far as being partisan, the law says that as long as they don't say vote for somebody else, as long as they don't advocate for the Democrats, as long as they issue ads, they're perfectly legal. And as Martha just told you, she doesn't say they're illegal either.

ZAHN: Well she said they're teetering on the edge of illegality.

WARD: Teetering on the edge is like slightly pregnant. You're either legal or illegal.

ZOELLER: But the Supreme Court didn't say, Bernie, and you know this, it wasn't just vote for this person, they expanded the language. They said that things had to be a little more in the direction not just vote for that person. And this is clearly an attack at President Bush, the candidate, not at an issue.

WARD: Martha, all you have to do is go to court and find out whether they back you or not. It is really very simple. Until the court says...

ZOELLER: That's what the Supreme Court supported it. They should follow the rules.

WARD: Then you got an easy win, Martha. You go to court, spend $3. You win and those ads are off the air if it's that simple.

ZAHN: Have an ad that I want to show you now. Similar groups have ads attacking John Kerry. They're raising money to do more buys. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Voted against President Bush's tax cuts and balanced budget amendment. So who is this Massachusetts liberal? Teddy Kennedy or John F. Kerry? The answer may surprise you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So you want this ad taken off the air?

ZOELLER: Well, that's a Web ad right now. There's no money putting it on the air. We just did right here. But that's a Web ad where they're trying to raise money. But Grass.org is not a 527. ZAHN: So you don't have a problem with that? Would you have a problem if broadcast networks and cable networks start airing that as an ad? An actual ad...

ZOELLER: If they call themselves a 527, then yes. But they are not a 527 organization. And most people -- that's boring to most people, but that's the difference here. Moveon.org is a 527 organization, which the Supreme Court has ruled on effectively. And they need to answer where their money comes from, if they raise more than $1,000...

WARD: Again, you've got an easy win, Martha. But the bottom line, Paula, is very simple...

ZOELLER: I don't have an easy win. I'm a voter just like you are, Bernie.

WARD: You have an easy win. You got the Republicans. Call them up. They love you guys. They'll do whatever you guys ask. So, let them go to court and win.

But here's what this is what this is about, Paula. The Bush people thought they would have 17 states to themselves. They have $150 million. They know Kerry's money is low. They thought they could run all these ads in the battleground states with absolutely no response. And they're really sour grapes and miffed about the fact that these ads are running at the same time theirs are. They already blew it by using September 11. Now they're really angry that there are counter ads running at the same time.

ZAHN: Martha, is that what this is about, Republican anger at the Democrats have gotten pretty creative on how to spend the fractional money that they have?

ZOELLER: Democrats have always been creative about dancing around the law. We've seen that. Harold Ickes is the head of one of these organizations. He has his own problems from 1996 and how he handled campaign laws. People just want -- it is not just Republicans. The American people are tired of this negativity. And they want to see -- and that's the lesson in 2002 was. It didn't work. Scaring people does not work. And it is going be a positive campaign. You guys can't stand it that President Bush is running a positive campaign.

WARD: Where is the positive campaign?

ZOELLER: It is now.

WARD: The president already saying that if a Democrat's elected, the Republican spokesman saying if the Democrats elected David Frum saying that the terrorists will be doing dancing in Baghdad.

ZOELLER: There's a difference. Wait a minute.

WARD: That's not a negative comment?

ZOELLER: No, the president has not been negative.

WARD: Neither has John Kerry.

ZOELLER: Oh, he called the president a liar and a crook today in front of the AFL-CIO.

WARD: Martha, you know that he said the sleaze machine was crooked and were liars. He never mentioned the president at all.

ZOELLER: The president has been positive and you guys can't stand it. He's got a record to run on. Kerry doesn't want to run on his record.

WARD: Martha, I had a nun in third grade, Sister Victoria who always talked about crocodile tears. You guys are just spewing crocodile tears out everywhere, because there's money on the other side.

ZAHN: Oh, I think tonight, the two of you are giving us an excellent idea of how positive this campaign is as it unfolds. Martha Zoeller, Bernie Ward, thank you for both of your perspectives.

WARD: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: It was more than the usual NHL fight, one player seriously injured. His attacker under police investigation. Where does sport end and assault begin?

And Jeanne Moos shows us what the well dressed Olympic swimmer will be wearing. You're not going to believe the price tag either.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: It was a stunning cheap shot. A sucker punch by Vancouver Canucks all-star forward Todd Bertuzzi. It left Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche with a concussion and a broken neck.

Moore's team tonight says his spinal cord is okay. Bertuzzi will find out Thursday what punishment the league will give him. But he's also facing an assault investigation by police.

Joining us now Kara Yorio, NHL writer for the "Sporting News" magazine and attorney and sports analyst Rob Becker. Welcome to you both. You have followed Todd's career for a long time now. Does he had have a history of violence on ice?

KARA YORIO, NHL WRITER, "SPORTING NEWS" MAGAZINE: He has a prior suspension for actually coming to the aid of a teammate. He left the bench for a fight to come to the aid of Ed Jovanovski. He considers himself to have been coming to the aid of and retaliating to a teammate in this situation as well. So he has that history. He's a huge man. He's 6'3, 250. He uses intimidation. He has a history of being a physical player, that's for sure, but nothing to this magnitude.

ZAHN: Given that retaliation is a part of ice hockey's culture, does this hit -- and we can watch it again right here, cross the line?

YORIO: Absolutely it crosses the line.

ZAHN: Why? What are you seeing that others aren't?

YORIO: Well, part of the culture, part of this code that they always talk about, the players talk about, former players talk about, is going toe to toe with a guy allowing them to at least defend himself. Todd Bertuzzi did not allow Steve Moore to defend himself. He came at him from behind. There wasn't just the punch as we see for the thousandth time. He jumps on his back and drives him into the ice. That's beyond anything the NHL would ever allow.

ZAHN: All right but we know that body slams, checks and slashes are all part of the game. Was he following the rules or not?

ROB BECKER, ATTORNEY AND SPORTS ANALYST: Well, it is outside of it, I think, for the reason that Carol just said. It's the taking his face down to the ground from standing position right down into the ice. I've never seen that in my life. I don't think I've seen a broken neck. That's clearly beyond the pale. And to me, it's not just as a matter of right or wrong, but even as a legal matter, that's why he's going to be able to be prosecuted.

ZAHN: If this guy was not hit from behind, would this be a different story?

YORIO: Absolutely, I think so.

BECKER: If he was taken down to the ice but not hit from behind? No, I think he would still be prosecuted if he was taken down to the ice face first no matter how they started it.

ZAHN: Should the prosecution go anywhere on this case?

YORIO: It went somewhere with Marty McSorley in 2000. He was found guilty but not convicted. It's a Canadian legal thing that Rob understands, but I don't so yes, I guess they go as far as they can. They certainly have grounds and precedent.

ZAHN: Now, there's a penalty call for tomorrow, right? Is this a team issue or is this a Vancouver police issue or both?

BECKER: Both. I mean, this guy's going to get a suspension tomorrow for sure. I think Kara and I agree, it will be a year, maybe a little more. As to prosecution, I really don't see any way of stopping him from being prosecuted. He clearly committed an assault, maybe even an aggravated assault. Normally you have a defense that certain incidents in the sport are consented to if they're normal. This isn't normal, you don't have the defense. He'll be convicted. His absolute worst scenario, 14 years in prison. Best scenario, zero.

ZAHN: You smile, Kara.

YORIO: 14 years in prison? It's never going to happen.

BECKER: No, that won't happen. But several years.

ZAHN: Yes, but you think he'll get some time.

YORIO: I don't think he'll serve time.

ZAHN: What is justice for Steve Moore who may never play again?

YORIO: I don't know. I don't know what justice is. You take a certain amount of risk when you play the game of hockey. You risk that you are going to get hurt. You don't risk that a 250-pound man is going to jump on your back and drive your face into the ice. I don't know what justice is for him. But I certainly think it wouldn't be any less than Todd Bertuzzi being gone for a calendar year just like Marty McSorley.

ZAHN: But there are blurred lines here. I grew up with the Chicago Blackhawks. I remember distinctly fans being disappointed, I occasionally among them, when there wasn't a good fight between Kip Magnusson (ph) and someone else out there on the ice. Isn't that part of the allure of the game?

YORIO: That's the debate. If you allow fighting, does it go to this? Does it continue and get to this level? Are guys that unable to control themselves? I think that it is not a normal happening. But I think that the League needs to do more to get these guys under control. And have them think about the consequences of their actions.

ZAHN: Does the League have the guts to do that?

BECKER: To some extent. Particularly they're going through a very bad patch where their popularity is on the wane. I think for publicity reasons they'll give him a big penalty. But really if you rely on the League too much, they're not going to do enough. That's why the Vancouver authorities have to prosecute this guy.

ZAHN: Do you wait for the fights on the ice?

YORIO: No, I don't.

BECKER: No, I don't either but I do watch.

ZAHN: I'm sure you do. Rob Becker, Kara Yorio, thanks.

We turn now to a story about spring break, drinking and what colleges are trying to do to stop it. As Julie Vallese reports, not only faculty and administrators are supporting sanctions and warnings, now many students also think it's time for their peers to get a lesson in drinking 101.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIE VALLESE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the University of Rhode Island, alcohol has been banned at all campus social events. The president of the University of Delaware makes sure parents are told when students break campus rules.

DAVID ROSELLE, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE: Parents have leverage that colleges do not have.

VALLESE: He says at the time he instituted the policy, it was illegal, but figured so was underage drinking. And considering the statistics, it was worth the risk.

WILLIAM DEJONG, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR COLLEGE HEALTH AND SAFETY: Students are living with the three Vs of campus life. Violence, vandalism, and vomit.

VALLESE: Approximately 1,400 college students die in alcohol- related deaths. Some on spring break, others on campus. Another half million are injured. More than 70,000 fall victim to sexual assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A majority of their students will support a range of stricter policies and tougher enforcement measures.

VALLESE: And that's not just wishful thinking. A new survey of students at 300 colleges and universities nationwide say they support stricter rules and harsher punishment for breaking alcohol laws.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stricter disciplinary sanctions for engaging in alcohol-related violence were supported by 90 percent of the students nationwide. Stricter sanctions for repeatedly violating campus alcohol policy, approximately 73 percent said that they were in favor.

VALLESE: Statistically overall alcoholism isn't on the rise, but the changes in who's drinking has changed the focus. And for now, the Institutes of Health and the industry have its sights set on students. Julie Vallese, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Swim like a shark. That's the idea behind this bathing suit. We're going to show you what's behind this swim suit of the not so distant future.

And you sweat and strain to get fit and lose weight, but what if it's not working? Maybe you got it all wrong. A top fitness expert shows us the biggest fitness mistakes of all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: For the world's fastest swimmers, there's a new option. The search for that tiny edge. The smallest possible advantage. It is a full body swimsuit that owes its innovative design to the work of aerospace engineers and to the skin of sharks. While it is meant for serious athletes, that didn't stop Jeanne Moos from taking the reportorial plunge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you think finding the right swimsuit is hard, try slipping into this. Holy smokes. Olympic medalist Amanda Beard (ph) isn't squeezing in for the sake of vanity, she's doing it for speed. Speedo calls it the world's fastest swimsuit. And they rounded up four champion swimmers to introduce it. It's called the Fast Skin Too, an improvement of the first Fast Skin that surfaced at the 2000 Olympics. Actually, the same special effects company that worked on Spiderman helped Speedo make test mannequins. Bet your suit doesn't have riblets, zig-zaggy things that reduce friction or TMS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turbulence Management System.

MOOS (on camera): Touch my Turbulence Management System?

(voice-over): Fast skin two is modeled after a shark's skin with a full length look may be disappointing to Olympic viewers.

(on camera): Now, what if people like to see your skin?

(voice-over): Good medalist Lenny Krayzelburg bare skin was cause for ogling.

(on camera): We saw you looking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Busted.

MOOS (voice-over): Aerospace engineer's pointed mapped out points of friction to design a swimsuit that reduces drag by 4 percent over the previous fast skin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The red across her breasts means that the water has to speed up.

MOOS: Protruding parts slow you down, so will the price of the suit, 350 bucks. A far cry from the original swimsuit.

(on camera): Is this new suit that much better than Tarzan and his loincloth?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. We need to change his technique though. He had terrible technique.

MOOS: So terrible that Johnny Weissmuller won five Olympic gold medals.

What's next, a suit with gils?

At least this thing won't ride up on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my goodness. Suck it in.

MOOS: But a suit that reduces drag sure sure is a drag to get into. Here.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And if you're trying to get in shape to fit into one of those suits getting nowhere, you'll want to hear what a top fitness expert says about the mistakes you might be making in your program. He's weight loss guru Jim Karas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERRI WILLIS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Billions and billions. That's how many people McDonald's chraps to have served. Even though it is still not the biggest restaurant chain in country, that title goes to Subway. The chain has over 20,000 franchises pushing low fat and low carb sandwiches. And it recently tops "Entrepreneur Magazine's" list of best franchises to own. Yet, despite the honor, Subway still trails Mickey Ds in one important category -- profits.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Well, let's face it, working out is hard enough as it is. By the time you get around to it you want to make sure you're doing it right. Our next guest tells us that most people are not. And they may even be undermining their own progress.

Fitness guru and weight loss expert Jim Karas is here to help out. He's the author of "Flip The Switch: Discover the Weight Loss Solution and The Secret to Getting Started." And he's here to tell us the biggest mistakes. You have to have a lot of guts to put the little blue suit on on the cover.

Lets get straight to it, Jim, your first fitness mistake, exercising on an empty stomach.

JIM KARAS, WEIGHT LOSS EXPERT: Worse thing you can do. Because when you go out to exercise, your body needs glucose. It needs fuel. If you are not giving it enough fuel, it's going to root around and it's going try to find it elsewhere.

ZAHN: What's it going to eat?

KARAS: Your muscles. It's going to actually eat your muscles up. So, what you are going out and exercising and actually depleting your body's most precious, precious component, your muscle.

ZAHN: The second mistake. Emphasizing cardio over strength training.

KARAS: The key to weight loss is strength and resistance training because it's the only form of exercise that builds lean muscle tissue. Muscles are big calorie burners. They can burn between and 25 and 50 calories per pound per day.

Why would you want to jump on a treadmill or bike and burn calories during that period of time and maybe an hour after wards?

ZAHN: Because it makes you feel good.

KARAS: It does make you feel good, but it doesn't boost your metabolism the way the strength training does which boosts it 24 hours a day those muscles keep chewing up calories and that's what you want to lose weight.

ZAHN: Mistake number three, working out one hour a day.

KARAS: You really...

ZAHN: More exercise isn't better?

Less is more?

KARAS: It's not better. And the other thing, Paula, it is discouraging.

How many people can really say right now, I've got an hour a day to exercise.

ZAHN: No one can.

KARAS: I know I don't. I definitely don't.

ZAHN: You have to get it done in 30 minutes or it's not going to get done.

KARAS: A lot of case studies show 15, 20 minutes, even three short bursts of five to 10 minutes definitely can get the job done and then do your strength training because then you won't sweat as much, so you don't have to take a shower. It makes it all easier.

ZAHN: It's such a vicious circle, isn't it?

Your next point and mistake has to do with what we eat.

KARAS: Right.

ZAHN: Avoiding dairy products.

KARAS: It is terrible. The best thing you can do is eat high calcium rich foods.

ZAHN: That would be for those of us...

KARAS: Dairy products would be yogurt, it would be cheese, it would be skim milk, definately broccoli, kale. A lot of foods have calcium. And what happened was, Harvard and the University of Tennessee showed that. If you eat more calcium rich foods, up to about 1,200 miligrams of calcium, you will burn more body fat. You'll even lose almost twice as much weight as you would not eating the high calcium foods. So definitely go for them. Start your breakfast with cottage cheese or yogurt, a piece of fruit because fruit is high fiber, high water. And definitely sprinkle the calcium throughout the day, you'll lose more weight.

ZAHN: You're not telling me now that broccoli is now a dairy product, are you?

KARAS: It's not a dairy product, but it does have calcium. But it does have calcium in it. ZAHN: You had me a little confused there.

On to the final point. Trying to achieve six-pack abs. We've all been conditioned to thinking you should be doing 100 of those stupid crunches a day.

KARAS: Lots and lots of crunches, 10,000 things.

ZAHN: You feel like you're really doing yourself some good, you are not.

KARAS: Absolutely not.

ZAHN: Why.

KARAS: The key to building those really lean defined muscles is to build the muscle throughout your body. That will enable you to burn body fat, and then whatever you happen to have, a lot of it is going to be genetics, a little bit can be attained by doing crunches. But bottom line, nothing's really going to happen unless you get lean. And the way to get lean is to strength train, eat your calcium, cut your calories. And then, a couple of crunches here and there, fine. Do you need to do anything more than 10 or 12 a day, no. And you see all those things about all those crunches. It doesn't work.

ZAHN: Finally reaction to that study that came out yesterday basically saying that 64 percent of the people in this country are killing themselves by the way they eat?

KARAS: Correct. It's all I think, Paula, it's portion distortion. We have simply eyeball portions that started to get larger about 20 years ago. And they've gotten bigger and bigger. And we brought them home from restaurants. And before you know it, we're eating bagels the size of tires. Were eating, muffins that are absolutely enormous. There's like a days worth of food in one muffin. It is just too much food. The "Joy of Cooking" has a brownie recipe that we have all eaten growing up that 15 years ago it says makes 30 servings. That same recipe today says makes 15 servings. Even the "Joy of Cooking" supersized their brownies twice as much and that's the problem.

ZAHN: Quick yes or no, you used to be overweight or fat?

KARAS: I was fat. I used to wear husky jeans and husky pants. It was not pretty.

ZAHN: He follows his own advice now. Thanks so much for joining us. Jim Karas, thanks for stopping by.

Thank you all for being with us tonight. We'll be back same time, same place again tomorrow night. Have a great night.

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