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CNN Live Saturday

Phone Card Found In Unexploded Backpack On Train In Madrid; Legal Roundup With Avery Friedman, Richard Herman; Police In Fresno Still Investigating 9 Bodies Found In Home

Aired March 13, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. on the east coast, 11:00 a.m. out west. This is Saturday, March 13. Good afternoon everyone, I'm Fredericka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour, the search for answers into what happened inside a Fresno, California home where nine bodies were found Friday.

Also the verbal bashing, it started early in the race for president. An up close look at the heated battle between George Bush and John Kerry. Plus this...

DANIEL SIEBER, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: I'm CNN technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg, live in California where we are covering a race of a different kind. This one does't involve any humans, but it does involve a million dollars. We'll tell you what it's all about coming up on CNN SATURDAY.

WHITFIELD: All right, first the headlines.

A standoff continues in east Tennessee. A heavily armed 16-year- old boy is holed up in his home and keeping police at bay. He is suspected of killing one officer and wounding at least four others in a gun battle yesterday following a domestic dispute.

Police in Battle Creek, Michigan are studying videotapes from surveillance cameras as they search for the killer of two people this morning at Kellogg Community College. A third person was critically wounded. The shootings took place at a campus parking lot.

Funeral services are under way in Spain for some of the victims of the country's worst ever terrorist attack. The death toll from Thursday's commuter train bombings in Madrid is now 200. Spanish authorities are calling the Basque separatist group ETA their prime suspect but Islamic terrorists are not being ruled out.

Police in Fresno, California are searching for motives in a horrifying crime that is shocking even the most veteran of police officers there. Authorities called in to resolve a child custody dispute yesterday discovered the bodies of nine people. Including seven children, a teen and an adult. The main suspect is believed to be the children's father. Miguel Marquez has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is the home where nine bodies were found after patrol officers showed up to a child custody call. Under arrest, but not yet charged is 57-year-old Marcus Wesson. Neighbors say this was an imposing man. One neighbor saying that she was afraid of him. Very tall man, had with long dark hair down past his waist.

They also say he was quiet. I talked to one gentleman who knew Mr. Wesson for about three years, says he didn't believe he had a job but that the women that he was associated with, the four women he was associated with, that they worked and he controlled their money. Neighbors also say that the women were typically dressed in black: black skirts, black blouses, all in black. And Mr. Wesson would be seen outside the front of the house typically working on cars.

I want to bring in Lieutenant Art Alvarado with Fresno police who knows a little bit more about this. Your officers arrived here to a child custody call yesterday afternoon, what happened once they got here?

LT. ART ALVARADO, FRESNO POLICE: That's correct. Shortly after 2:00, they arrived here and contacted two females that were here to pick up their children from a Mr. Wesson who lives here. They got a hold of Mr. Wesson, and at first he was cooperative and agreed to return the children to the females, but during the conversation with our officers he declined to give them back, ran inside a bedroom and locked and refused to come out.

MARQUEZ: The victims that they found, over how much time did it take them to find those victims?

ALVARADO: I don't know that information. All I know is they called negotiators because the females informed the officers that Mr. Wesson had possibly been armed with a handgun or a gun. So they called negotiators and set up a perimeter.

MARQUEZ: So, when he first came out to talk to police, he had no blood on him. When he came out later, though, after the negotiators got here, what did he look like?

ALVARADO: That's correct. He came out from the residence, and it appeared to be a soiled clothing, what appeared to be blood.

MARQUEZ: But police, did they hear anything, gunshots, scuffling, yells, screams, anything like that?

ALVARADO: No, none at all. We surrounded the -- set a perimeter around the house. And when the officers were here, they did not hear or see anything that would indicate something was going on inside.

MARQUEZ: What do you know about the relationship between Mr. Wesson or the women or children who were killed?

ALVARADO: The information that I have is that the women who were here, were picking up the children who was fathered by Mr. Wesson.

MARQUEZ: Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Again, 57-year-old marcus wesson under arrest and suspected of the murders but not yet charged. Police still working the scene at the home. The bodies are with the coroner. And they are trying to figure out how they were killed as well. Charges expected sometime soon. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Fresno, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In Spain, it's a somber day across the country as they bury the dead. The death toll from Thursday's terror attacks on commuter trains in Madrid stands at more than 200. More than 1,500 were wounded. The bombings are Spain's worst ever terrorist attack.

And right now the identity of the attackers is still unknown. The Spanish government believes the prime suspect is the Basque separatist group ETA, but Islamic terrorists are not being ruled out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGEL ACEBES, SPANISH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): It's an investigation that is very complex. But it is producing findings, and therefore, I am in no doubt that the perpetrators and the authors of this horrible attack will be detained and they will be placed before justice so that they carry out every single one of the days of their sentence. That's why I merely ask for trust in the security forces of this country and their work and their serious work and the professional work that they are doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Not all Spaniards are buying that, that's why thousands have gathered in the streets of Madrid. They are carrying out protests saying they don't trust what the Spanish government is saying right now. Our Brent Sadler is there in the midst of it all. And he joins us on the phone with the very latest -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, indeed, Fredericka, a demonstration outside the headquarters of the ruling popular party. The past couple of hours it's reached several thousand strong.

The city center where the headquarters are located is now sealed off by many police riot squads, some of them bearing gas grenade launchers as well as riot shields and riot sticks. And many of the protesters are yelling peace, peace, peace! And many of them saying the bombs that fell on Iraq are now falling on Madrid. And that is a reference, here at least, among this demonstration of complains against the ruling popular party for supporting the U.S.-led war against Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein.

And the time of the Spanish decision to go along with that war, up to 90 spaniards were against Spain taking part in that conflict, so this is a backlash, if you'd like, for what happened in Iraq. Because many of these protesters are hurling so far unsubstantiated allegations that the Madrid authorities are not giving all the information they have about who the perpetrators of Thursday's deadly bomb blasts are.

Up until now the government has been saying the prime suspect is ETA, the Basque separatist group. Also keeping a second track of inquiry open into possible Islamic terrorist groups. These people are saying that is not enough, if there's a backlash against Spain's war against Iraq.

So, security forces here, very heavily controlling this crowd. The crowd very noisy, but peaceful. And this taking place on the eve, Fredericka, of general elections here in Spain. Technically this is an illegal protest taking place, because election campaigning was stopped two days ago after the bomb blasts. So, it certainly tense on the streets of Madrid here, but peaceful -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, Brent, let me ask you specifically about those planned elections for tomorrow. How many of the people there among those demonstrators there believe the attack is directly connected to the upcoming elections?

SADLER: Well, certainly this is not a fully representative demonstration in terms of political factions here in Madrid, but it is a strong body of people who have taken to the streets, at a very sensitive moment on the eve of polling. In fact, their outside the Popular Party where platforms have already been erected for live coverage of the events of the election day. Not for media to cover this growing protest.

We understand these are emotionally leftist groups many of them anti-war protesters who have linked together through Internet messages and other messages on telephones to gather here this evening at what is a crucial point in the electoral process as far as the general election is concerned.

We'll have to see how this plays out at the polls tomorrow. Normally, about 70 percent of Spaniards turn out for elections. It could be more. We'll have to see what impact, if any, this demonstration and what happened on Thursday with those terrible terror blasts claiming the lives of 200 have a weight on how the Spaniards vote for their next government -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brent. Thank you very much. Bringing us that live report via phone from the streets of Madrid where thousands have turned out there. Many people expressing they're distrustful of the Spanish government and so far the explanation of Thursday's events.

In fact, there were many pieces of evidence that the Spanish intelligence officials are going after. That included is apparently some prepaid telephone calling cards that were found in a bomb backpack that police apparently deactivated. Well now, according to "El Mundo," the minister of the interior, Angel Acebes, is about to announce the detention of at least four Arab citizens linked to the prepaid telephone calling card that was found.

And apparently that backpack also contained the explosive ECO which apparently is made in Spain, combined with metal pieces intended to multiply its destructive effect, and that is being found next to a detonator and a mobile telephone.

So, that breaking news that we are following for you. We are waiting for that announcement formally to come from the minister of the interior. Right now it's being reported by "El Mundo."

And thanks to Brent Sadler for his live report as well.

On now to Africa. Liberia's former president, Charles Taylor faces some new troubles. The United Nations Security Council has voted to require all member states to freeze funds and other economic assets that belong to Taylor and his family. Taylor fled into exile in Nigeria last August as rebel forces moved into Liberia's capital. He faces war crimes charges by a U.N. tribunal for his role in a brutal insurgency in neighboring Sierra Leone.

We heard some compelling testimony in the trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams this week. So did it help or hurt his case? It's one of the subjects in our legal roundtable right here on CNN SATURDAY.

Plus, it's been almost a year since the beginning of the war in Iraq. A look at some of the lessons learned later on CNN SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, this breaking story we are following for you right now. You are looking at a live picture coming out of Spain right now of the minister of interior, Angel Acebes. He is apparently announcing the detention of at least four Arab citizens linked to the prepaid telephone calling card that was found in a bomb backpack. During -- right after Thursday's explosions of the commuter trains there in Madrid.

Police deactivated those -- that bomb pack. And apparently, along with that backpack, they found that it contained the explosive ECO, which is made in Spain. And it was combined with metal pieces that apparently is intended to multiply its destructive effect when it is detonated. And that was located next to a detonator as well as a mobile phone.

Well, the interior minister is now at least trying to calm some of the nerves of the Spaniards there who have been crowding the street of Madrid all evening, it is there, all day here in the stats. Crowding the streets because they say they do not trust the Spanish government's investigation. And they want some answer.

More on this when we get it.

Well, time now to catch up on a number of high-profile legal cases, among them the Scott Peterson and Jayson Williams trials. We turn to legal eagles, Avery Friedman, who is a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: Hi, good to see you. And Richard Herman, criminal defense attorney who joins us from New York.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Good to see you guys.

Well, let's begin with the Scott Peterson case. They are trying for a second time now for a change of venue. What are the chances that this just might happen again?

FRIEDMAN: Zip. This case is going nowhere. Al Delucci, who is the judge made the correct decision on the venue getting the case out of Modesto where everybody knew the fertilizer factory was and they had preconceived notions. It is way over there in Redwood City. Nobody knows. With good empaneling of the jurors, with the judge's control, this case is going to be -- the jury will be constitutionally impartial. It's going nowhere.

WHITFIELD: Richard, you disagree. You think the jury pool is tainted. He just might have a good chance at a change of venue, again.

HERMAN: I think Redwood is totally infected. They have billboards up there, man or monster. The press is covering this case relentlessly in the newspapers and the radio. He cannot possibly get a fair trial in Redwood City. But I agree with Avery...

WHITFIELD: What about the notion of moving out of state completely? That does happen in some cases.

HERMAN: Yes, but it won't happen here. Let me remind you, the Trade Center bombing cases that were tried in New York City went on appeal for that very issue. That was one of the issues on appeal. And the second circuit court of appeal said no, venue is proper. No change.

FRIEDMAN: That's why it's not going anywhere.

HERMAN: That's the same court of appeals that will hear Martha's appeal, too, by the way.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, let's shift gears. Let's talk about the Jayson Williams case. Just like in the Martha Stewart case, the jury, everyone involved in the case is watching the defendant closely. And there have been some criticisms, Avery, that Jayson Williams has not shown enough emotion. What does he need or his legal team need to advise him when it comes down to trying to appeal to the jurors?

FRIEDMAN: You know, the reality is that Jayson Williams will never take the stand. And the difficulty here is that he is a sympathetic, charismatic guy. But he could -- the prosecution could do a lot more damage.

The bottom line in this there is nothing he can do other than pay attention. The difficulty is that they can't put Jayson on the stand, because of this thing he did about putting the gun in the dead man's hands, and trying to come up with an alabi that Mr. Christofi killed himself. It's just crazy.

HERMAN: Fredericka...

WHITFIELD: But Richard. Yes, it seems there's a fine line between being cool and callous in the view of some.

HERMAN: No. Sitting there and giving emotion and evoking emtions to the jury is just not going to do it for this guy. The case is coming in in textbook. And one of the essential elements in any case, whether prosecution or defense, is witness corroboration. And here every single prosecution witness has been corroborated this guy is going down. He's going down fast. And the only thing Jayson Williams can hope for is a hung jury here. One juror to hold out on potentially some kind of race card issue, because Otherwise, this guy is going down. I don't know what is his attorney's thinking?

FRIEDMAN: Race card is not going to work here. The only way that Jayson will be able to save himself, because he's looking at 55 years. He wouldn't get out of prison until he's 90 years-old. And the only way it can happen is a tough defense. And we have not seen that yet. And that's going to be coming up.

WHITFIELD: It's a sad case.

FRIEDMAN: It is. It is.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about the Allen Munn case. This is very unusual. Someone who has this Web site, putting the names and addresses, personal information of undercover cops, of government officials, et cetera. What kind of defense -- what kind of -- apparently, his defense just might be freedom of speech. First amendment.

HERMAN: There's no crime being committed here, No. 1. This is public information. And the New York Police Department, they may want to bring a civil action against him. They did back in '99. And the judge granted an injunction and made him tear down the Web sites, but there he was actually threatening police officers.

FRIEDMAN: The guy is in Germany. They can't even get jurisdiction on him. And this is a total whack job. This guy is crazy. Richard is right. Some of it is public information. Some of it isn't. I don't know how an American court will get jurisdiction even if they can establish the facts to shut the guy down. I think that guy is going to continue to do crazy stuff out there.

WHITFIELD: My gosh, apparently he has a record of certifiable psychiatric problems.

FRIEDMAN: He is a convicted felon. He's a bad news guy, Fredericka, bad news.

WHITFIELD: So, am I hearing you guys are agreeing on this?

HERMAN: No!

FRIEDMAN: No, but for different reasons.

WHITFIELD: Richard?

HERMAN: No I don't agree with Avery, I'm sorry.

WHITFIELD: All right. Richard and Avery, thank you very much. Good to see you.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to be back again.

HERMAN: Thank you. Nice seeing you.

WHITFIELD: Another update on our top story we're following for you. Out of Spain, the interior minister has just announced the detaining of four Arab citizens that are being linked to a prepaid telephone card that were found along with a detonator and a mobile phone, all found in a backpack in one of the commuter trains. And this all taking place on Thursday during the bombing of the trains there.

But then simultaneously you are seeing on the right hand side of your screen that thousands of people are crowding the streets of downtown Madrid because many of them are expressing that they don't believe that the Spanish government is doing all it can to reveal publicly where this investigation is going. The Spanish government has said it is leaning more towards the terrorist group ETA for being responsible, however no clear-cut signs of that as of yet. They're still investigating.

Meantime, other outsiders are believing there may be collaboration between ETA and maybe even a terrorist group such as al- Qaeda, but no conclusive evidence is being revealed.

So, again, arrests have been made involving some of the evidence found on the commuter train. While at the same time, thousands are protesting the handling of the Spanish government's investigation of the commuter bombing.

More in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHIFIELD: More now on a breaking story we are following for you out of Spain. On one end you have thousands of protesters crowding the street of Madrid expressing distrust of the Spanish government. In the meantime, the interior minister is saying arrests have been made linked to evidence found in one of the commuter trains.

Let's go to Brent Sadler who is live in Madrid for the latest on these two developments -- Brent.

SADLER: Thanks, Fredericka. Yes, the interior minister of Spain has just been announcing at a press conference at the same time there as there is a massive demonstration going on in the center of Madrid complaining about the way the government has been handling the investigation.

The interior minister now saying that a number of people have been either detained or are being held for questioning. The nationalities of those people: three Moroccans, two Hindus and two Spaniards of Indian origin.

Now, it is not clear at this stage, whether or not the -- there are any links between any terror organization and those who have been arrested on the ground here. That's too much of a stretch at this stage. But certainly the Spanish authorities confirming they are holding a group of individuals in connection with Thursday's bomb attacks that led to at least 200 people being killed. And as as 1,400 others injured.

What the interior ministry has been telling reporters here in Madrid is that these individuals, the Moroccans, Hindu and two Spaniards of Indian origin were picked up as a result of a detailed examination of a telephone chip that was inside one of the unexploded devices recovered from a train here in Madrid from the Atocha railway station. That bag was found intact. We understand it was a sports bag.

It was taken away by authorities, examined, and the phone card inside that telephone revealed telephone numbers as a result of those searches, these arrests have been made.

As this -- this stage, no direct link with any terror organization or anything to directly link them with the planning or implementation of those bomb blasts, but certainly detensions have been made, arrests been made. And questioning going on.

And that coming really at the same time as thousands of Spaniards, and most of them anti-war protesters who were out on the streets a year ago protesting Spain's involvement with the support of the U.S.-led conflict to depose Saddam Hussein in the search for weapons of mass destruction. Up to 90 percent of Spaniards, Fredericka, were against their country's participation in that conflict.

And throughout this day, many Spaniards have been complaining that the government here has been playing up the allegation that Eta, the Basque separatist group, was behind these bomb attacks, rather than looking more closely at the possible link of an Islamic terror group. So these arrests are likely to satisfy at least some elements within this crowd.

This is a protest taking place, a noisy but peaceful. It's surrounded by a large number of riot police, this protest on the eve of the Spanish general elections is itself technically illegal. But it is being allowed to continue, because it is at the ballot box that some Spaniards believe the ruling Popular Party could be made to pay for supporting the war if, indeed, Islamic terrorists are proven to be behind Thursday's terror attacks against those trains in Madrid.

WHIFEILD: Now, Brent, what's interesting here, even though you are saying that the government is not willing to make links, they're not willing to place any blame as of yet, but now, you have these detainees that are multi ethnic now it seems as though the government has to be prepared for the reigniting of the series of a collaboration, perhaps involving terrorist groups.

SADLER: Yes, indeed. Spanish authorities have not been ruling out the possibility of some level of collaboration between an Eta group or cell and an Islamic terror group. It has been within the realms of possibility, says Spain's interior minister earlier this day before he announced those arrests justa short time ago.

It is interesting to point out that the interior minister also said that he expected arrests to take place shortly, and the announcement of that has just come as you know within the past 30 minutes or so.

But it's still too early to say whether or not this group of people, now detained and being questioned are directly linked with the bomb blasts or, all we have at the moment is a phone card taken out from an unexploded device, and a search, analysis of the phone calls made from that phone card led to this series of arrests.

Now, many of the people on the streets here, as I said are anti- war protesters. Said to be members of extreme left wing groups and left wing sympathizers. Really wanting to pile the pressure against the ruling popular party here for joining the war with the United States against Iraq.

And this playing out right now on the streets of Madrid on the eve of a general election that many Spaniard also tell you in the streets today, I have been talking to them, they wanted to see it postponed to give the investigation, to give Spaniards more time to assess what and who was behind these bomb blasts. So that they could go to a ballots with more information.

So, this is coming at a crucial time. The protest, the announcement of arrests and within the next 12, 15 hours or so, Spaniards are expected to go and cast votes for a new government -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent, you alluded to this. But let's talk about the politics that people are evaluating there. , in terms of whether Eta would be involved or some other -- an Islamic militant group would be involved in these bombings and what that would mean for the ruling popular party or the socialist party.

SADLER: Well as far as the ruling popular party is concerned, and ETA hand on this bomb blast would fit in with the way the government of Jose Maria Aznar has really cracked down against the ETA separatist since he has been in power. So if it was the hand of ETA that would play favorably in the hand of the ruling for popular party. If it was to be the hand of an Islamic terror group, if you would like, paying back for Spain's participation in the conflict against Iraq, then that could play badly against the popular party at the polls Sunday.

So many Spaniards not least those on the streets here behind me tonight, but many others I have spoken to who have been taking part in silent vigils, lighting candles and laying flowers for the victims of those who have died, many of them really wondering how they can, in good faith, go to the polls to select a new government when so little is known about which hand was on the trigger that detonated those bombs. Because it goes to the very heart of Spanish politics right now, if 90 percent of this country was against that war, which the Spaniards joined with the United States, remembers, 1300 Spanish troops are on the ground joining the coalition to try and save lives in Iraq right now. It really plays essential to how the way Spaniards want to cast their votes at the ballots on Sunday, goes up to 90 percent of Spaniards were against Spanish participation in that conflict.

So it's a crucial timing, if you'd like, for the way people, the election will respond to what happened Thursday and the way they're responding at least in this section of society here, remember 12 million Fredricka, Spaniards turned out on the streets of not only Madrid but right across the country against the terrorist actions on those commuter trains Thursday. A massive outpouring of grief, and here, this is only a snapshot, if you'd like, of some of the anger that is being displayed throughout Spain. A snapshot of the anger directed towards the Spanish authorities for participating in that war over a year ago. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent now with tomorrow's planned national elections, there's been no talk that we understand from any government officials that the elections would be postponed in any way, so what kind of security measures are being put in place?

SADLER: Certainly as far as this protest is concerned, I guess you can see behind me, I don't know if you are on the live shot or if you are on me. But this stretches back as far as this street is concerned. It is ringed by riot police, squad vans; some of the police are armed with tear gas, grenade launchers, riot shields, and back arms.

But as things stand now this is a noisy but peaceful protests in terms of security, if you take into account the level of loss of life and injury on Thursday and the way that Spaniards have been responding, suspecting that the authorities may not be releasing all the information they have because of the crucial impact the hand of Islamic terror group on those bombings would have on the election, it is crucial that the authorities do not let this protest get completely out of hand in any way.

Technically, it's illegal after the bomb blast election campaigning was stopped. There have been three days of national mourning. Grief has been tropical throughout the country. But for than two days now since those blasts, the people are questioning whether or not all the information that is available to the authorities is being made public. Certainly the information that there have been arrests, a number of them not directly linked to any terror groups, nor indeed to the bombings themselves may go someway to placate levels of anger which is being expressed not just here but in other parts of in this country. Fredricka. WHITFIELD: So Brent, for a moment, let me just try to recap if we could. The interior minister there in Spain has announced that five people have been detained. Three are Moroccans, two are Spaniards of Indian descent, and apparently they are now questioning these five people because of evidence that was located in an un-detonated bomb backpack that including a calling card as well as a explosive devices that are apparently made in Spain, found in this backpack.

And all this is located next to a detonator which police on the scene were able to successfully dismantle before anyone else could be further hurt this all taking place on Thursday now two days later, five detainees now in custody. Brent, there you are standing not far from a collection of thousands of Spaniards who are very out spoken about their distrust of the government's investigation at this point.

Who specifically is their audience? I'm talking about the proximity of this crowd to any government buildings? Are they doing this strictly for camera sake? They know the press is there? Or are they directing their sentiment at government officials who are in a building nearby? Brent.

SADLER: The tone of this demonstration Fredricka is aimed at the ruling popular party. And this protest is focused on the headquarters of the ruling popular party. So this whole street where those headquarters are located is now pretty jammed pack full of protesters and police. It is a tense but a peaceful standoff now. What you are hearing, the shouts behind me are shouts of peace, shouts of liars, shouts of manipulation, this is really been going on for the past several hours. Blaming the government for manipulating the information to save the government from a possible electoral backlash at the polls Sunday.

It's the timing of the release of the information that is crucial to this. And so, if you look at what's happened over the past two days since the bomb blast, you have to look at fact that the Spanish authorities were following two tracks, primarily against ETA, but ETA in the past of more than 35 years of violence action against the Spanish authority for a vast homeland have never gone beyond a certain red line, running a method (ph) operation against government institutions, the police and municipal targets, nothing of this magnitude nor this coordination of planning, no warning at all in this case was so ever.

And indeed Fredricka, no claim of responsibility. In fact ETA has been consistently denied being involved. So it's with the background of that information and the revelation that the authorities did find a van, very soon after the bomb blast. Inside that van was detonators, inside that van, traces of explosives, which the authorities were saying were linked to some of the dynamite that was, used in the blast themselves inside that van. They also found a tape, a commercially available tape of Koranic versus an educational tape. So there was suspicion very soon after the bomb blast that a terror group linked to an Islamic extremist organization might have been involved.

But all the long the Spanish authorities have been playing up ETA as number one suspects. Spaniards have said that given the abnormality the scale of the loss of life and the way it was carried out, that there had to be a greater concentration of a possibility of an alternative suspect to ETA namely an Islamic terror group. So the arrest, it is too early to say what is behind these arrests, the arrest of these individuals, the Moroccan, Spaniards of Hindu origin, they have been picked up as a result of information on a phone card inside a mobile phone that was inside an unexploded bomb.

It is very pertinent to what is going on now. I don't know how much they know about this on the streets in Madrid in the location, I'm speaking to you from now. But certainly I think it will go some way to placating some of the very (INAUDIBLE) criticisms that has been made by the anti-Iraq war lobby here in Spain and opposition politicians. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent, for a moment we are just going to take a pause and listen in to the protesters there who are starting to get rather vocal. Many of them holding up signs that say peace. Lets listen in.

(PROTESTERS)

WHITFIELD: All right, and Brent you are right there very close to the middle of all of this where thousands have gathered. We can see the signs. We know this is a peaceful demonstration as you have described. Any idea specifically what many are chanting out there?

SADLER: I think what I want to do now Fredricka is bring in CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief Al Goodman if we can get a two shot here. Because Al has been out in the streets for the past few minutes, and Al, this is where you spend most of your professional career with CNN. What impact is this going to have on the election Sunday? What are people feeling? What is their mood on the street here? We can hear them shouting now. Give us some idea, some insights.

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look Brent you have the symbols right here. Is the headquarters of the ruling popular party? At that balcony over here, we would expect tomorrow night the leaders of the party to be out on the balcony to their followers, trying to proclaim victory. This is what the polls were showing. Right down the street, just out of the camera is the national court building that the special court that investigates terrorism.

Has a bulletproof courtroom. This is a judge in that courtroom, according to the interior minister who has ordered the arrest and these other two men to be interrogated. We have been told basically since late Thursday, early Friday, soon after the bombing, that there were suspicions, according to a lot of people from political parties, people in the streets, Spanish journalists they suspected this two- track ETA and possibly Islamic terrorist, that maybe the government wasn't coming clean.

And you see the result right here. People are really expressing their anger. If last night those huge demonstrations across Spain, everybody closing ranks, paying homage to the victims and against the terrorism, no matter what strike, tonight you have pure hard politics in the streets. Brent. SADLER: But how representative of Spain as a whole are these people? OK, we have several thousand strong here. Noisy but peaceful. They seem to be, many of them now perhaps being hijacked by the anti- war demonstrations of a year ago. How representative is this?

GOODMAN: Well the polls show that up to 90 percent as you said were against the war. But you know, last night 11 or 12 million Spaniards on the streets at the height of the anti-war protest a year ago, there were several million people on the streets. Not just a few thousand or a few hundred thousand, a few million across the country. But you never saw that translated at the ballot box.

There were local elections a few months after the war and the popular party, the Royalton servants came out all right. They lost a little bit of ground, which you might expect in an off-year election. But they weren't wiped off the map. So they carried on and they thought policy would be all right. The prime minister standing firm with President Bush because he thought this was right for Spain to be with the United States on the question of Iraq against the international terrorism is how he always put it. Brent.

SADLER: Now, in terms of the legality of this, three days of mourning after the bomb blasts, election campaigning supposed to have stopped, this in a sense is an election campaign for the opposition going on right now, isn't it?

GOODMAN: Indeed some people down on the street were just commenting, this is the final election rally. You know, this is unprecedented in the history of the election. The Saturday before the Sunday elections, the elections are usually held on Sunday typically, at least in many, many recent years. The Saturday is the day of reflection the campaigning would have ended at this time last night, on a Friday night at midnight. They shut those rallies down, no campaigns on Saturday.

People are suppose to reflect, but this day they had to reflect on life and death matters, how you can say good-bye to somebody in the morning and never see them again. Brent.

SADLER: In terms of those who have been detained, five or seven?

GOODMAN: We are being told, we have just talked with our partner station, it was CNN (AUDIBLE) was listening in to the Spanish of the interior minister and we are being told in Spanish and I was translating for you, we were told three Moroccans detained, two people from India of Indian nationality two others Spaniards of Hindu or Indian origin. There are many Spaniards who have been arrested or many people arrested in the Al-Qaeda investigation since the 9/11 attacks.

And dozens of them have been arrested on the orders from the people from this national court who had Spanish nationality or Spanish citizenship having been born in places like Syria or other places. So these may be the types of people who are being questioned right now.

SADLER: And just briefly, do you think the news when it spreads will placate some of these protesters that there have been detentions and people of non-Spanish origin, at least most of them have now been announced to have been either questioned or detained?

GOODMAN: Well you know we have not had a chance to talk to analysts. But some that I know might say the following, the government will be able to go to bed with peace on its mind in the sense they have taken strong action, they have made some arrests, they said for several days now these last two days. Look we had two tracks, we had ETA, and we had Al-Qaeda. ETA was our prime suspect, but we had these other suspects.

We've made some arrests, see, we are taking action. So maybe this will play out for them. Although what we are seeing here indicates that they are going to take a hit tomorrow.

SADLER: All right, Al Goodman, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief. Thank you very much for those insights. We will be getting back to you later on. So Fredricka, just to recap, seven people are now if you would like, helping the authorities with their inquiry. No direct links to any terror group yet. For indeed any direct links to the bomb attack on Thursday.

But certainly suspicions very high in the wake of that announcement and still this protest continue, peaceful protest here in the center of Madrid. Back to you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brent Sadler and Al Goodman, both of you thanks very much. But stick around, because we are going to rejoin you all in a moment.

But for now, we are going to take a short break, then we are going to resume our coverage now of the now reported arrest of five people involved, allegedly in the train bombings last week, last Thursday in Spain. And now thousands also gathering in the streets in anti-government protests. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We are continuing to watch this breaking story we are following for you out of Spain two days after the commuter train explosions taking place, now the interior minister there in Spain is announcing the detainment of five people. Three of who are Moroccans, two who are Spaniards of Indian and Hindu descent. All at the same time thousands of people; thousands of Spaniards are crowding the streets there in anti-government protests.

They have all been peaceful demonstrations is taking place one day now before the national elections there. So what does all of this mean as it's happening all at once just two days after these deadly commuter train bombings killing 200 people?

Well from Washington joining us is Ben Venzke, is the CEO of a terrorist research group called Intel Center. And Ben thanks very much for joining us again. You and I spoke earlier, we talked about the series of collaboration between the Basque separatist group ETA and perhaps some other Islamic fundamentalist or terrorist groups. Is this sounding more and more possible now hearing of this multi ethnic group of people who have been detained? BEN VENZKE, CEO, INTEL CENTER: Right. Not necessarily in terms of a collaboration between ETA and Al-Qaeda. But this does clearly move the ball farther away from looking at ETA and much more concern over the fact that this is quite possibly an operation by Al-Qaeda or some type of affiliated group with Al-Qaeda.

WHITFIELD: Now what is interesting here is the interior ministry or at least the translation we're getting is saying very little about the details of these five individuals, only that they are being connected however to the kind of evidence that was located shortly after the explosions, that of a calling card, a cell phone, as well as explosives that were found in a bomb backpack. Do any of these things, to you, now that we are hearing a little bit more about the evidence, sound characteristic of ETA or any other group? Based on your studies.

VENZKE: Well by looking at the nature of the two groups and how they operate, the ethnic origin of the suspects and some of the other information that has been coming out from the backpacks and the unexploded devices, does seem, again, to point more in the direction of Al-Qaeda than of ETA. And this is what seems clear is these are not just people that the Spanish security services had been observing and because of the attack decided to round up. But it does seem to be clear that these are people that have in some shape or form a direct connection to the attack.

WHITFIELD: And why do you feel that way? Because these certainly on surface sound like pretty basic simple tools.

VENZKE: Well right, they are very simple, basic tools. But again in this is just based off of initial reports, which might turn out to be proven wrong. But it does appear that there is a connection between the cell phone that was found in those unexploded devices and these individuals. And that's a pretty strong link between the two, which would mean that these individuals would most likely either directly involved in the attack or had some kind of knowledge or support role in assisting the cells that actually executed the attack.

WHITFIELD: Now are you comforted by or have any suspicions of two days after the attack, these detainments taking place, given the fact the Spaniards have come out very vocally criticizing the investigation so early on?

VENZKE: Well, clearly this was a horrible strike against Spain and the Spanish people. And there are a lot of emotions and feelings that are at play now. This is, I think, a strong sign that the Spanish security forces, the police, and intelligence in Spain are prosecuting through this, as they should. They are looking at every piece of information, they are tracking down every little bit and pulling the information in. What is of great concern is if this is Al-Qaeda, it has been Al-Qaeda's tendency in the past year or so to conduct more than one operation. And there's great concern that if this is in fact them, that they might try to do it again.

WHITFIELD: OK, Ben Venzke, hold on a minute, on the phone with us from Washington. I want to bring in Brent Sadler who is there in the middle of it all where so many thousands have collected. Brent you and Al were talking earlier about the location of this demonstration. How pivotal it is to tomorrow's elections given that it's right across from the balcony where all the party leaders will be standing and generally would be waiving on Election Day.

SADLER: Yes indeed Fredricka. Sorry, it's bumpy on this platform. I'm actually speaking to you on a platform a gantry that was supposed to be used for live coverage of Election Day tomorrow. But as you see behind me thousands of Spanish and other nationalities are on the streets of central Madrid now protesting right in front of the ruling popular party headquarters. Now, this is unprecedented scene we are seeing here on a number of levels, not the least, technically speaking at least this is an illegal rally because effectively it could be interpreted as a rally in favor of the opposition against the ruling popular party.

We also understand from our sister network here Calnaplus (ph) in Madrid that within the next ten or 15 minutes, the anointed successor to Jose Maria Aznar, and Mr. Marion Aho (ph) is expected to make an unprecedented statement given that we are on the eve of a general election here in Spain. And within the next ten to 15 minutes, and that could well be a response from the opposition socialist party.

All this taking place at the same time, as we see the demonstrations on the streets of Madrid. Against the way the authorities have been announcing information about the inquiry, leading the Spanish and the world community to believe that ETA was the main suspect when many Spaniards thought for political reasons and for reasons of Spain's involvement in the war against Iraq, that information, crucial information about the perpetrators of these terror attacks might not be released until after general elections and for political reasons.

And so that's why many of these people are on the streets tonight. Also many people here protesting reminding the voters tomorrow that it was a very unpopular decision domestically at least for Spain to take part in that war in Iraq over a year ago. Because at that time, before the conflict started, before the invasion, up to 90 percent of the Spaniards were against Spain's involvement in that conflict. And as you know, in the past half hour or so, Spain's interior minister has come out with a very crucially important statement saying that five people have been arrested, three of them Moroccan, two Hindus they're described as, and two others Spanish origin are being held for questioning.

Hindus of Spanish origin being held for questioning, not formally arrested at this stage in the past half hour as we continue to see these events unfold here. I'm going to will bring Al Goodman in, if I may, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief and ask you, Al, if I can, what impact is this going to have?

And the fact that we may be hearing from both political parties, at this crucial time into the investigations into those terror attacks, just hours before Spaniards start going to the polls what does this all add up to in your mind?

GOODMAN: Brent, there are three consecutive unprecedented days here in Spain. On Thursday, the commuter train bombings leave 200 dead, 1400 injured. The biggest terrorist attack in the history of Spain. The next day, Friday and leaders have been pointing this out, today we heard a socialist leader earlier this day say that was not the only unprecedented day. Friday when 12 million Spaniards marched in the streets, the biggest demonstration ever. Now here, on the day of reflection, the day when there's supposed to be no campaigning by tradition, this is not like in some other countries that the campaigns go up to when the polls open.

No campaigning on this day. A day of reflection. And here you have this gigantic demonstration right out here in the streets in front of the popular party headquarters and you've got word from our sister station CNN Flues (ph) that the ruling party candidate Myriano (ph) Rehoe (ph) is due to address the people of Spain live on television.

Right now which is the time for the prime evening newscast from this building and soon after the social. They basically, the bombings on Thursday have basically thrown the rulebook out for this country. Brent.

SADLER: Al Goodman, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief, thanks very much indeed for those insights. So just quickly, unprecedented events here in terms of the election and in terms of the way the investigation into Thursday's bomb attacks are unfolding in dramatic fashion here. Back to you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, very good thank you very much Brent Sadler as well as Al Goodman there from Madrid reporting on the two moving developments coming out of Madrid there. The protests involving anti- government demonstrators as well as announcements of five people detained now by the Spanish government all being connected with evidence found in an un-detonated bomb backpack.

Let's bring back from Washington now Ben Venzke who is the CEO of Intel Center. He's been helping us try to understand the various theories of who just might be involved. And Ben, we know the Spanish government has made it very clear that they don't want to point any fingers however they said that they are leaning towards the Basque separatist group ETA.

VENZKE: Right and I think these arrests might change that. And clearly there's very little information that is known beyond the ethnic origin of these five individuals. But it would seem to indicate towards moving the suspicion more towards Al-Qaeda and away from ETA. But at the end of the day we need to have more information in the investigation we need to precede further for us to know definitively who was actually involved.

WHITFIELD: And given the fact that Spain is also a place that is multi international and just because you have three Moroccans and two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu dissent, should not necessarily make people prejudicial to the fact these people may be involved in some Islamic terrorist group, correct?

VENZKE: Absolutely, you know, it is a very diverse part in Madrid. And there are people from all different parts of the world, and you can't leap to any kind of conclusions. The one thing that -- why this factors in somewhat here, is because when we are trying to make a determination between responsibility between say, for instance ETA or a group like Al-Qaeda or Islamic extremists. ETA is a group associated with a specific region in Spain, and that's been fighting for independence from Spain, and there are some commonalties between ethnic background and other things factors. But clearly these are just one piece out of many that need to be pulled together to actually determine responsible.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Venzke, hold on a minute. Let me just recap again for those who are just now joining us. The breaking news coming out of Madrid there, is that the interior minister has announced that five people have been detained in connection with evidence that was found near the locations of the train bombings on Thursday. These five people include three Moroccans and two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu dissent.

In connection with evidence that was found near the locations of the train bombings on Thursday. These five people include three Moroccans, two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu descent. Meantime, in Madrid, thousands of people have crowded the streets there in anti- government demonstrations.

It is being called a peaceful demonstration all be it very vocal. And what's alarming about that or most compelling about that is that this demonstration is taking place right outside the ruling popular party headquarters as well as outside the national courts building. Which is the headquarters to terrorism investigation agency. Now back joining us again out of Washington Ben Venzke who is the CEO of Intel Center he is trying to help us understand the various theories that these investigators are now trying to work on.

They have got five people in custody we don't know more about whether the arrest have formally taken place, we know at least though Ben these people are being questioned, is there hope in your view that these five detainees would be able to give enough detail to perhaps widen the net for the Spanish government investigator?

VENZKE: Absolutely. There's no question that this is a huge step in terms of the investigation going forward and trying to determine who is responsible, and directing and detaining the other participants in the attack. I mean sometimes you see, after terrorist attack like this that you'll see security forces go out and arrest a number of people, because they're arresting people that they've been watching for a long time and they want to bring them in for questioning.

But as opposed to that, in this case, it does appear that these five individuals were directly connected to the mobile phone that was in with one of the explosive devices. So there's a direct connection to the actual attack. And that does bode very well for the investigation.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Venzke of Intel Center. Thanks very much for joining us on the telephone from Washington to help us understand these latest developments out of Spain. On now to other stories we're following for you. At the top of the hour police and citizens of Fresno, California, are struggling to comprehend a horrible crime in their city. The bodies of nine people, most of them children, were found inside a single house. Police have arrested a suspect, Marcus Wesson. He is believed to be the children's father.

Authorities in Loudon County, Tennessee are trying to resolve a standoff with an armed teenager. A deputy was shot and killed Friday morning when he responded to a domestic disturbance. Four other officers were slightly injured. Police have identified the suspect in the home as a 16-year-old boy, armed with semiautomatic weapons.

Divers expect to recover the roof of the water taxi that capsized last week in Baltimore Harbor. At the same time, police say their priority is to find the bodies of three people still missing. Authorities say the boat flipped over in a sudden storm, dumping 25 passengers in all into the water.

Major breakdowns have ended the great robot race across the Mojave Desert in California. CNN's Daniel Sieberg has the latest details on the million-dollar contest from Barstow, California.

DANIEL SIEBERG, TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hi Fred, that's right. They came, they crashed. They tried to go far, they made it a few miles and in the end, none of the 15 autonomous robots that arrived here in Barstow, California, were able to complete the race. And we're here at the start area where it's very quiet right now. They had set up this area to start the race early this morning. A lot of activity frenetic activity as the teams started the race, trying to make it across the desert terrain about 200 miles from here Barstow to just outside Prim, Nevada.

The teams, this race was open to anybody. It was sponsored by Darpa, which is the research agency of the defense department, trying to find new ideas for autonomous vehicles. There is a congressional mandate for 2015 to have a third of the military vehicles unmanned or autonomous. The reason behind that is it would allow soldiers to not be put in harm's way and these robots could then do sort of the dull, dirty or dangerous work, instead of the actual soldiers on the battlefield.

Now as we are saying none of the robots were able to complete it. Some of them made it several miles. Most of them didn't get that far. And so they had to call the race. But these teams have been working for quite awhile. In fact they've been working on these projects for several months. There was a qualification process this week in which time they had to go through certain obstacles and certain trials before they could even get to this point to try to get that million dollars.

And there was a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of optimism behind these teams. They represented everybody from Carnegie Mellon University to Virginia Tech. Even a group of high school students were involved in this race. So it was certainly open to everybody to try and compete, in the end no one did, so the race is open for another couple of years. Darpa says that million-dollar prize may be available in a couple of years, about 2006 when they might hold this race again. All of the robots operated in similar manner using GPS, laser, sonar, computer programs, everything they could to try to traverse the desert terrain. Very challenging to try to go 200 miles even admitted by the organizers here, by Darpa. They realize it's very difficult to try to get across this terrain. Even during the qualification round there was some trouble with getting off the start line for some of the teams. But the enthusiasm is still here.

Darpa says they're optimistic about the future. That this is a learning experience and in the years ahead these autonomous vehicles will be refined and that they will be available in a more widely basis. In fact maybe even used by civilians. For now I'm Daniel Sieberg, live in Barstow, California. "NEXT@CNN" begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Madrid; Legal Roundup With Avery Friedman, Richard Herman; Police In Fresno Still Investigating 9 Bodies Found In Home>


Aired March 13, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. on the east coast, 11:00 a.m. out west. This is Saturday, March 13. Good afternoon everyone, I'm Fredericka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour, the search for answers into what happened inside a Fresno, California home where nine bodies were found Friday.

Also the verbal bashing, it started early in the race for president. An up close look at the heated battle between George Bush and John Kerry. Plus this...

DANIEL SIEBER, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: I'm CNN technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg, live in California where we are covering a race of a different kind. This one does't involve any humans, but it does involve a million dollars. We'll tell you what it's all about coming up on CNN SATURDAY.

WHITFIELD: All right, first the headlines.

A standoff continues in east Tennessee. A heavily armed 16-year- old boy is holed up in his home and keeping police at bay. He is suspected of killing one officer and wounding at least four others in a gun battle yesterday following a domestic dispute.

Police in Battle Creek, Michigan are studying videotapes from surveillance cameras as they search for the killer of two people this morning at Kellogg Community College. A third person was critically wounded. The shootings took place at a campus parking lot.

Funeral services are under way in Spain for some of the victims of the country's worst ever terrorist attack. The death toll from Thursday's commuter train bombings in Madrid is now 200. Spanish authorities are calling the Basque separatist group ETA their prime suspect but Islamic terrorists are not being ruled out.

Police in Fresno, California are searching for motives in a horrifying crime that is shocking even the most veteran of police officers there. Authorities called in to resolve a child custody dispute yesterday discovered the bodies of nine people. Including seven children, a teen and an adult. The main suspect is believed to be the children's father. Miguel Marquez has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is the home where nine bodies were found after patrol officers showed up to a child custody call. Under arrest, but not yet charged is 57-year-old Marcus Wesson. Neighbors say this was an imposing man. One neighbor saying that she was afraid of him. Very tall man, had with long dark hair down past his waist.

They also say he was quiet. I talked to one gentleman who knew Mr. Wesson for about three years, says he didn't believe he had a job but that the women that he was associated with, the four women he was associated with, that they worked and he controlled their money. Neighbors also say that the women were typically dressed in black: black skirts, black blouses, all in black. And Mr. Wesson would be seen outside the front of the house typically working on cars.

I want to bring in Lieutenant Art Alvarado with Fresno police who knows a little bit more about this. Your officers arrived here to a child custody call yesterday afternoon, what happened once they got here?

LT. ART ALVARADO, FRESNO POLICE: That's correct. Shortly after 2:00, they arrived here and contacted two females that were here to pick up their children from a Mr. Wesson who lives here. They got a hold of Mr. Wesson, and at first he was cooperative and agreed to return the children to the females, but during the conversation with our officers he declined to give them back, ran inside a bedroom and locked and refused to come out.

MARQUEZ: The victims that they found, over how much time did it take them to find those victims?

ALVARADO: I don't know that information. All I know is they called negotiators because the females informed the officers that Mr. Wesson had possibly been armed with a handgun or a gun. So they called negotiators and set up a perimeter.

MARQUEZ: So, when he first came out to talk to police, he had no blood on him. When he came out later, though, after the negotiators got here, what did he look like?

ALVARADO: That's correct. He came out from the residence, and it appeared to be a soiled clothing, what appeared to be blood.

MARQUEZ: But police, did they hear anything, gunshots, scuffling, yells, screams, anything like that?

ALVARADO: No, none at all. We surrounded the -- set a perimeter around the house. And when the officers were here, they did not hear or see anything that would indicate something was going on inside.

MARQUEZ: What do you know about the relationship between Mr. Wesson or the women or children who were killed?

ALVARADO: The information that I have is that the women who were here, were picking up the children who was fathered by Mr. Wesson.

MARQUEZ: Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Again, 57-year-old marcus wesson under arrest and suspected of the murders but not yet charged. Police still working the scene at the home. The bodies are with the coroner. And they are trying to figure out how they were killed as well. Charges expected sometime soon. Miguel Marquez, CNN, Fresno, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In Spain, it's a somber day across the country as they bury the dead. The death toll from Thursday's terror attacks on commuter trains in Madrid stands at more than 200. More than 1,500 were wounded. The bombings are Spain's worst ever terrorist attack.

And right now the identity of the attackers is still unknown. The Spanish government believes the prime suspect is the Basque separatist group ETA, but Islamic terrorists are not being ruled out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGEL ACEBES, SPANISH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): It's an investigation that is very complex. But it is producing findings, and therefore, I am in no doubt that the perpetrators and the authors of this horrible attack will be detained and they will be placed before justice so that they carry out every single one of the days of their sentence. That's why I merely ask for trust in the security forces of this country and their work and their serious work and the professional work that they are doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Not all Spaniards are buying that, that's why thousands have gathered in the streets of Madrid. They are carrying out protests saying they don't trust what the Spanish government is saying right now. Our Brent Sadler is there in the midst of it all. And he joins us on the phone with the very latest -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, indeed, Fredericka, a demonstration outside the headquarters of the ruling popular party. The past couple of hours it's reached several thousand strong.

The city center where the headquarters are located is now sealed off by many police riot squads, some of them bearing gas grenade launchers as well as riot shields and riot sticks. And many of the protesters are yelling peace, peace, peace! And many of them saying the bombs that fell on Iraq are now falling on Madrid. And that is a reference, here at least, among this demonstration of complains against the ruling popular party for supporting the U.S.-led war against Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein.

And the time of the Spanish decision to go along with that war, up to 90 spaniards were against Spain taking part in that conflict, so this is a backlash, if you'd like, for what happened in Iraq. Because many of these protesters are hurling so far unsubstantiated allegations that the Madrid authorities are not giving all the information they have about who the perpetrators of Thursday's deadly bomb blasts are.

Up until now the government has been saying the prime suspect is ETA, the Basque separatist group. Also keeping a second track of inquiry open into possible Islamic terrorist groups. These people are saying that is not enough, if there's a backlash against Spain's war against Iraq.

So, security forces here, very heavily controlling this crowd. The crowd very noisy, but peaceful. And this taking place on the eve, Fredericka, of general elections here in Spain. Technically this is an illegal protest taking place, because election campaigning was stopped two days ago after the bomb blasts. So, it certainly tense on the streets of Madrid here, but peaceful -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And, Brent, let me ask you specifically about those planned elections for tomorrow. How many of the people there among those demonstrators there believe the attack is directly connected to the upcoming elections?

SADLER: Well, certainly this is not a fully representative demonstration in terms of political factions here in Madrid, but it is a strong body of people who have taken to the streets, at a very sensitive moment on the eve of polling. In fact, their outside the Popular Party where platforms have already been erected for live coverage of the events of the election day. Not for media to cover this growing protest.

We understand these are emotionally leftist groups many of them anti-war protesters who have linked together through Internet messages and other messages on telephones to gather here this evening at what is a crucial point in the electoral process as far as the general election is concerned.

We'll have to see how this plays out at the polls tomorrow. Normally, about 70 percent of Spaniards turn out for elections. It could be more. We'll have to see what impact, if any, this demonstration and what happened on Thursday with those terrible terror blasts claiming the lives of 200 have a weight on how the Spaniards vote for their next government -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brent. Thank you very much. Bringing us that live report via phone from the streets of Madrid where thousands have turned out there. Many people expressing they're distrustful of the Spanish government and so far the explanation of Thursday's events.

In fact, there were many pieces of evidence that the Spanish intelligence officials are going after. That included is apparently some prepaid telephone calling cards that were found in a bomb backpack that police apparently deactivated. Well now, according to "El Mundo," the minister of the interior, Angel Acebes, is about to announce the detention of at least four Arab citizens linked to the prepaid telephone calling card that was found.

And apparently that backpack also contained the explosive ECO which apparently is made in Spain, combined with metal pieces intended to multiply its destructive effect, and that is being found next to a detonator and a mobile telephone.

So, that breaking news that we are following for you. We are waiting for that announcement formally to come from the minister of the interior. Right now it's being reported by "El Mundo."

And thanks to Brent Sadler for his live report as well.

On now to Africa. Liberia's former president, Charles Taylor faces some new troubles. The United Nations Security Council has voted to require all member states to freeze funds and other economic assets that belong to Taylor and his family. Taylor fled into exile in Nigeria last August as rebel forces moved into Liberia's capital. He faces war crimes charges by a U.N. tribunal for his role in a brutal insurgency in neighboring Sierra Leone.

We heard some compelling testimony in the trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams this week. So did it help or hurt his case? It's one of the subjects in our legal roundtable right here on CNN SATURDAY.

Plus, it's been almost a year since the beginning of the war in Iraq. A look at some of the lessons learned later on CNN SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, this breaking story we are following for you right now. You are looking at a live picture coming out of Spain right now of the minister of interior, Angel Acebes. He is apparently announcing the detention of at least four Arab citizens linked to the prepaid telephone calling card that was found in a bomb backpack. During -- right after Thursday's explosions of the commuter trains there in Madrid.

Police deactivated those -- that bomb pack. And apparently, along with that backpack, they found that it contained the explosive ECO, which is made in Spain. And it was combined with metal pieces that apparently is intended to multiply its destructive effect when it is detonated. And that was located next to a detonator as well as a mobile phone.

Well, the interior minister is now at least trying to calm some of the nerves of the Spaniards there who have been crowding the street of Madrid all evening, it is there, all day here in the stats. Crowding the streets because they say they do not trust the Spanish government's investigation. And they want some answer.

More on this when we get it.

Well, time now to catch up on a number of high-profile legal cases, among them the Scott Peterson and Jayson Williams trials. We turn to legal eagles, Avery Friedman, who is a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: Hi, good to see you. And Richard Herman, criminal defense attorney who joins us from New York.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Good to see you guys.

Well, let's begin with the Scott Peterson case. They are trying for a second time now for a change of venue. What are the chances that this just might happen again?

FRIEDMAN: Zip. This case is going nowhere. Al Delucci, who is the judge made the correct decision on the venue getting the case out of Modesto where everybody knew the fertilizer factory was and they had preconceived notions. It is way over there in Redwood City. Nobody knows. With good empaneling of the jurors, with the judge's control, this case is going to be -- the jury will be constitutionally impartial. It's going nowhere.

WHITFIELD: Richard, you disagree. You think the jury pool is tainted. He just might have a good chance at a change of venue, again.

HERMAN: I think Redwood is totally infected. They have billboards up there, man or monster. The press is covering this case relentlessly in the newspapers and the radio. He cannot possibly get a fair trial in Redwood City. But I agree with Avery...

WHITFIELD: What about the notion of moving out of state completely? That does happen in some cases.

HERMAN: Yes, but it won't happen here. Let me remind you, the Trade Center bombing cases that were tried in New York City went on appeal for that very issue. That was one of the issues on appeal. And the second circuit court of appeal said no, venue is proper. No change.

FRIEDMAN: That's why it's not going anywhere.

HERMAN: That's the same court of appeals that will hear Martha's appeal, too, by the way.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, let's shift gears. Let's talk about the Jayson Williams case. Just like in the Martha Stewart case, the jury, everyone involved in the case is watching the defendant closely. And there have been some criticisms, Avery, that Jayson Williams has not shown enough emotion. What does he need or his legal team need to advise him when it comes down to trying to appeal to the jurors?

FRIEDMAN: You know, the reality is that Jayson Williams will never take the stand. And the difficulty here is that he is a sympathetic, charismatic guy. But he could -- the prosecution could do a lot more damage.

The bottom line in this there is nothing he can do other than pay attention. The difficulty is that they can't put Jayson on the stand, because of this thing he did about putting the gun in the dead man's hands, and trying to come up with an alabi that Mr. Christofi killed himself. It's just crazy.

HERMAN: Fredericka...

WHITFIELD: But Richard. Yes, it seems there's a fine line between being cool and callous in the view of some.

HERMAN: No. Sitting there and giving emotion and evoking emtions to the jury is just not going to do it for this guy. The case is coming in in textbook. And one of the essential elements in any case, whether prosecution or defense, is witness corroboration. And here every single prosecution witness has been corroborated this guy is going down. He's going down fast. And the only thing Jayson Williams can hope for is a hung jury here. One juror to hold out on potentially some kind of race card issue, because Otherwise, this guy is going down. I don't know what is his attorney's thinking?

FRIEDMAN: Race card is not going to work here. The only way that Jayson will be able to save himself, because he's looking at 55 years. He wouldn't get out of prison until he's 90 years-old. And the only way it can happen is a tough defense. And we have not seen that yet. And that's going to be coming up.

WHITFIELD: It's a sad case.

FRIEDMAN: It is. It is.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about the Allen Munn case. This is very unusual. Someone who has this Web site, putting the names and addresses, personal information of undercover cops, of government officials, et cetera. What kind of defense -- what kind of -- apparently, his defense just might be freedom of speech. First amendment.

HERMAN: There's no crime being committed here, No. 1. This is public information. And the New York Police Department, they may want to bring a civil action against him. They did back in '99. And the judge granted an injunction and made him tear down the Web sites, but there he was actually threatening police officers.

FRIEDMAN: The guy is in Germany. They can't even get jurisdiction on him. And this is a total whack job. This guy is crazy. Richard is right. Some of it is public information. Some of it isn't. I don't know how an American court will get jurisdiction even if they can establish the facts to shut the guy down. I think that guy is going to continue to do crazy stuff out there.

WHITFIELD: My gosh, apparently he has a record of certifiable psychiatric problems.

FRIEDMAN: He is a convicted felon. He's a bad news guy, Fredericka, bad news.

WHITFIELD: So, am I hearing you guys are agreeing on this?

HERMAN: No!

FRIEDMAN: No, but for different reasons.

WHITFIELD: Richard?

HERMAN: No I don't agree with Avery, I'm sorry.

WHITFIELD: All right. Richard and Avery, thank you very much. Good to see you.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to be back again.

HERMAN: Thank you. Nice seeing you.

WHITFIELD: Another update on our top story we're following for you. Out of Spain, the interior minister has just announced the detaining of four Arab citizens that are being linked to a prepaid telephone card that were found along with a detonator and a mobile phone, all found in a backpack in one of the commuter trains. And this all taking place on Thursday during the bombing of the trains there.

But then simultaneously you are seeing on the right hand side of your screen that thousands of people are crowding the streets of downtown Madrid because many of them are expressing that they don't believe that the Spanish government is doing all it can to reveal publicly where this investigation is going. The Spanish government has said it is leaning more towards the terrorist group ETA for being responsible, however no clear-cut signs of that as of yet. They're still investigating.

Meantime, other outsiders are believing there may be collaboration between ETA and maybe even a terrorist group such as al- Qaeda, but no conclusive evidence is being revealed.

So, again, arrests have been made involving some of the evidence found on the commuter train. While at the same time, thousands are protesting the handling of the Spanish government's investigation of the commuter bombing.

More in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHIFIELD: More now on a breaking story we are following for you out of Spain. On one end you have thousands of protesters crowding the street of Madrid expressing distrust of the Spanish government. In the meantime, the interior minister is saying arrests have been made linked to evidence found in one of the commuter trains.

Let's go to Brent Sadler who is live in Madrid for the latest on these two developments -- Brent.

SADLER: Thanks, Fredericka. Yes, the interior minister of Spain has just been announcing at a press conference at the same time there as there is a massive demonstration going on in the center of Madrid complaining about the way the government has been handling the investigation.

The interior minister now saying that a number of people have been either detained or are being held for questioning. The nationalities of those people: three Moroccans, two Hindus and two Spaniards of Indian origin.

Now, it is not clear at this stage, whether or not the -- there are any links between any terror organization and those who have been arrested on the ground here. That's too much of a stretch at this stage. But certainly the Spanish authorities confirming they are holding a group of individuals in connection with Thursday's bomb attacks that led to at least 200 people being killed. And as as 1,400 others injured.

What the interior ministry has been telling reporters here in Madrid is that these individuals, the Moroccans, Hindu and two Spaniards of Indian origin were picked up as a result of a detailed examination of a telephone chip that was inside one of the unexploded devices recovered from a train here in Madrid from the Atocha railway station. That bag was found intact. We understand it was a sports bag.

It was taken away by authorities, examined, and the phone card inside that telephone revealed telephone numbers as a result of those searches, these arrests have been made.

As this -- this stage, no direct link with any terror organization or anything to directly link them with the planning or implementation of those bomb blasts, but certainly detensions have been made, arrests been made. And questioning going on.

And that coming really at the same time as thousands of Spaniards, and most of them anti-war protesters who were out on the streets a year ago protesting Spain's involvement with the support of the U.S.-led conflict to depose Saddam Hussein in the search for weapons of mass destruction. Up to 90 percent of Spaniards, Fredericka, were against their country's participation in that conflict.

And throughout this day, many Spaniards have been complaining that the government here has been playing up the allegation that Eta, the Basque separatist group, was behind these bomb attacks, rather than looking more closely at the possible link of an Islamic terror group. So these arrests are likely to satisfy at least some elements within this crowd.

This is a protest taking place, a noisy but peaceful. It's surrounded by a large number of riot police, this protest on the eve of the Spanish general elections is itself technically illegal. But it is being allowed to continue, because it is at the ballot box that some Spaniards believe the ruling Popular Party could be made to pay for supporting the war if, indeed, Islamic terrorists are proven to be behind Thursday's terror attacks against those trains in Madrid.

WHIFEILD: Now, Brent, what's interesting here, even though you are saying that the government is not willing to make links, they're not willing to place any blame as of yet, but now, you have these detainees that are multi ethnic now it seems as though the government has to be prepared for the reigniting of the series of a collaboration, perhaps involving terrorist groups.

SADLER: Yes, indeed. Spanish authorities have not been ruling out the possibility of some level of collaboration between an Eta group or cell and an Islamic terror group. It has been within the realms of possibility, says Spain's interior minister earlier this day before he announced those arrests justa short time ago.

It is interesting to point out that the interior minister also said that he expected arrests to take place shortly, and the announcement of that has just come as you know within the past 30 minutes or so.

But it's still too early to say whether or not this group of people, now detained and being questioned are directly linked with the bomb blasts or, all we have at the moment is a phone card taken out from an unexploded device, and a search, analysis of the phone calls made from that phone card led to this series of arrests.

Now, many of the people on the streets here, as I said are anti- war protesters. Said to be members of extreme left wing groups and left wing sympathizers. Really wanting to pile the pressure against the ruling popular party here for joining the war with the United States against Iraq.

And this playing out right now on the streets of Madrid on the eve of a general election that many Spaniard also tell you in the streets today, I have been talking to them, they wanted to see it postponed to give the investigation, to give Spaniards more time to assess what and who was behind these bomb blasts. So that they could go to a ballots with more information.

So, this is coming at a crucial time. The protest, the announcement of arrests and within the next 12, 15 hours or so, Spaniards are expected to go and cast votes for a new government -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent, you alluded to this. But let's talk about the politics that people are evaluating there. , in terms of whether Eta would be involved or some other -- an Islamic militant group would be involved in these bombings and what that would mean for the ruling popular party or the socialist party.

SADLER: Well as far as the ruling popular party is concerned, and ETA hand on this bomb blast would fit in with the way the government of Jose Maria Aznar has really cracked down against the ETA separatist since he has been in power. So if it was the hand of ETA that would play favorably in the hand of the ruling for popular party. If it was to be the hand of an Islamic terror group, if you would like, paying back for Spain's participation in the conflict against Iraq, then that could play badly against the popular party at the polls Sunday.

So many Spaniards not least those on the streets here behind me tonight, but many others I have spoken to who have been taking part in silent vigils, lighting candles and laying flowers for the victims of those who have died, many of them really wondering how they can, in good faith, go to the polls to select a new government when so little is known about which hand was on the trigger that detonated those bombs. Because it goes to the very heart of Spanish politics right now, if 90 percent of this country was against that war, which the Spaniards joined with the United States, remembers, 1300 Spanish troops are on the ground joining the coalition to try and save lives in Iraq right now. It really plays essential to how the way Spaniards want to cast their votes at the ballots on Sunday, goes up to 90 percent of Spaniards were against Spanish participation in that conflict.

So it's a crucial timing, if you'd like, for the way people, the election will respond to what happened Thursday and the way they're responding at least in this section of society here, remember 12 million Fredricka, Spaniards turned out on the streets of not only Madrid but right across the country against the terrorist actions on those commuter trains Thursday. A massive outpouring of grief, and here, this is only a snapshot, if you'd like, of some of the anger that is being displayed throughout Spain. A snapshot of the anger directed towards the Spanish authorities for participating in that war over a year ago. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent now with tomorrow's planned national elections, there's been no talk that we understand from any government officials that the elections would be postponed in any way, so what kind of security measures are being put in place?

SADLER: Certainly as far as this protest is concerned, I guess you can see behind me, I don't know if you are on the live shot or if you are on me. But this stretches back as far as this street is concerned. It is ringed by riot police, squad vans; some of the police are armed with tear gas, grenade launchers, riot shields, and back arms.

But as things stand now this is a noisy but peaceful protests in terms of security, if you take into account the level of loss of life and injury on Thursday and the way that Spaniards have been responding, suspecting that the authorities may not be releasing all the information they have because of the crucial impact the hand of Islamic terror group on those bombings would have on the election, it is crucial that the authorities do not let this protest get completely out of hand in any way.

Technically, it's illegal after the bomb blast election campaigning was stopped. There have been three days of national mourning. Grief has been tropical throughout the country. But for than two days now since those blasts, the people are questioning whether or not all the information that is available to the authorities is being made public. Certainly the information that there have been arrests, a number of them not directly linked to any terror groups, nor indeed to the bombings themselves may go someway to placate levels of anger which is being expressed not just here but in other parts of in this country. Fredricka. WHITFIELD: So Brent, for a moment, let me just try to recap if we could. The interior minister there in Spain has announced that five people have been detained. Three are Moroccans, two are Spaniards of Indian descent, and apparently they are now questioning these five people because of evidence that was located in an un-detonated bomb backpack that including a calling card as well as a explosive devices that are apparently made in Spain, found in this backpack.

And all this is located next to a detonator which police on the scene were able to successfully dismantle before anyone else could be further hurt this all taking place on Thursday now two days later, five detainees now in custody. Brent, there you are standing not far from a collection of thousands of Spaniards who are very out spoken about their distrust of the government's investigation at this point.

Who specifically is their audience? I'm talking about the proximity of this crowd to any government buildings? Are they doing this strictly for camera sake? They know the press is there? Or are they directing their sentiment at government officials who are in a building nearby? Brent.

SADLER: The tone of this demonstration Fredricka is aimed at the ruling popular party. And this protest is focused on the headquarters of the ruling popular party. So this whole street where those headquarters are located is now pretty jammed pack full of protesters and police. It is a tense but a peaceful standoff now. What you are hearing, the shouts behind me are shouts of peace, shouts of liars, shouts of manipulation, this is really been going on for the past several hours. Blaming the government for manipulating the information to save the government from a possible electoral backlash at the polls Sunday.

It's the timing of the release of the information that is crucial to this. And so, if you look at what's happened over the past two days since the bomb blast, you have to look at fact that the Spanish authorities were following two tracks, primarily against ETA, but ETA in the past of more than 35 years of violence action against the Spanish authority for a vast homeland have never gone beyond a certain red line, running a method (ph) operation against government institutions, the police and municipal targets, nothing of this magnitude nor this coordination of planning, no warning at all in this case was so ever.

And indeed Fredricka, no claim of responsibility. In fact ETA has been consistently denied being involved. So it's with the background of that information and the revelation that the authorities did find a van, very soon after the bomb blast. Inside that van was detonators, inside that van, traces of explosives, which the authorities were saying were linked to some of the dynamite that was, used in the blast themselves inside that van. They also found a tape, a commercially available tape of Koranic versus an educational tape. So there was suspicion very soon after the bomb blast that a terror group linked to an Islamic extremist organization might have been involved.

But all the long the Spanish authorities have been playing up ETA as number one suspects. Spaniards have said that given the abnormality the scale of the loss of life and the way it was carried out, that there had to be a greater concentration of a possibility of an alternative suspect to ETA namely an Islamic terror group. So the arrest, it is too early to say what is behind these arrests, the arrest of these individuals, the Moroccan, Spaniards of Hindu origin, they have been picked up as a result of information on a phone card inside a mobile phone that was inside an unexploded bomb.

It is very pertinent to what is going on now. I don't know how much they know about this on the streets in Madrid in the location, I'm speaking to you from now. But certainly I think it will go some way to placating some of the very (INAUDIBLE) criticisms that has been made by the anti-Iraq war lobby here in Spain and opposition politicians. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Brent, for a moment we are just going to take a pause and listen in to the protesters there who are starting to get rather vocal. Many of them holding up signs that say peace. Lets listen in.

(PROTESTERS)

WHITFIELD: All right, and Brent you are right there very close to the middle of all of this where thousands have gathered. We can see the signs. We know this is a peaceful demonstration as you have described. Any idea specifically what many are chanting out there?

SADLER: I think what I want to do now Fredricka is bring in CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief Al Goodman if we can get a two shot here. Because Al has been out in the streets for the past few minutes, and Al, this is where you spend most of your professional career with CNN. What impact is this going to have on the election Sunday? What are people feeling? What is their mood on the street here? We can hear them shouting now. Give us some idea, some insights.

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well look Brent you have the symbols right here. Is the headquarters of the ruling popular party? At that balcony over here, we would expect tomorrow night the leaders of the party to be out on the balcony to their followers, trying to proclaim victory. This is what the polls were showing. Right down the street, just out of the camera is the national court building that the special court that investigates terrorism.

Has a bulletproof courtroom. This is a judge in that courtroom, according to the interior minister who has ordered the arrest and these other two men to be interrogated. We have been told basically since late Thursday, early Friday, soon after the bombing, that there were suspicions, according to a lot of people from political parties, people in the streets, Spanish journalists they suspected this two- track ETA and possibly Islamic terrorist, that maybe the government wasn't coming clean.

And you see the result right here. People are really expressing their anger. If last night those huge demonstrations across Spain, everybody closing ranks, paying homage to the victims and against the terrorism, no matter what strike, tonight you have pure hard politics in the streets. Brent. SADLER: But how representative of Spain as a whole are these people? OK, we have several thousand strong here. Noisy but peaceful. They seem to be, many of them now perhaps being hijacked by the anti- war demonstrations of a year ago. How representative is this?

GOODMAN: Well the polls show that up to 90 percent as you said were against the war. But you know, last night 11 or 12 million Spaniards on the streets at the height of the anti-war protest a year ago, there were several million people on the streets. Not just a few thousand or a few hundred thousand, a few million across the country. But you never saw that translated at the ballot box.

There were local elections a few months after the war and the popular party, the Royalton servants came out all right. They lost a little bit of ground, which you might expect in an off-year election. But they weren't wiped off the map. So they carried on and they thought policy would be all right. The prime minister standing firm with President Bush because he thought this was right for Spain to be with the United States on the question of Iraq against the international terrorism is how he always put it. Brent.

SADLER: Now, in terms of the legality of this, three days of mourning after the bomb blasts, election campaigning supposed to have stopped, this in a sense is an election campaign for the opposition going on right now, isn't it?

GOODMAN: Indeed some people down on the street were just commenting, this is the final election rally. You know, this is unprecedented in the history of the election. The Saturday before the Sunday elections, the elections are usually held on Sunday typically, at least in many, many recent years. The Saturday is the day of reflection the campaigning would have ended at this time last night, on a Friday night at midnight. They shut those rallies down, no campaigns on Saturday.

People are suppose to reflect, but this day they had to reflect on life and death matters, how you can say good-bye to somebody in the morning and never see them again. Brent.

SADLER: In terms of those who have been detained, five or seven?

GOODMAN: We are being told, we have just talked with our partner station, it was CNN (AUDIBLE) was listening in to the Spanish of the interior minister and we are being told in Spanish and I was translating for you, we were told three Moroccans detained, two people from India of Indian nationality two others Spaniards of Hindu or Indian origin. There are many Spaniards who have been arrested or many people arrested in the Al-Qaeda investigation since the 9/11 attacks.

And dozens of them have been arrested on the orders from the people from this national court who had Spanish nationality or Spanish citizenship having been born in places like Syria or other places. So these may be the types of people who are being questioned right now.

SADLER: And just briefly, do you think the news when it spreads will placate some of these protesters that there have been detentions and people of non-Spanish origin, at least most of them have now been announced to have been either questioned or detained?

GOODMAN: Well you know we have not had a chance to talk to analysts. But some that I know might say the following, the government will be able to go to bed with peace on its mind in the sense they have taken strong action, they have made some arrests, they said for several days now these last two days. Look we had two tracks, we had ETA, and we had Al-Qaeda. ETA was our prime suspect, but we had these other suspects.

We've made some arrests, see, we are taking action. So maybe this will play out for them. Although what we are seeing here indicates that they are going to take a hit tomorrow.

SADLER: All right, Al Goodman, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief. Thank you very much for those insights. We will be getting back to you later on. So Fredricka, just to recap, seven people are now if you would like, helping the authorities with their inquiry. No direct links to any terror group yet. For indeed any direct links to the bomb attack on Thursday.

But certainly suspicions very high in the wake of that announcement and still this protest continue, peaceful protest here in the center of Madrid. Back to you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brent Sadler and Al Goodman, both of you thanks very much. But stick around, because we are going to rejoin you all in a moment.

But for now, we are going to take a short break, then we are going to resume our coverage now of the now reported arrest of five people involved, allegedly in the train bombings last week, last Thursday in Spain. And now thousands also gathering in the streets in anti-government protests. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We are continuing to watch this breaking story we are following for you out of Spain two days after the commuter train explosions taking place, now the interior minister there in Spain is announcing the detainment of five people. Three of who are Moroccans, two who are Spaniards of Indian and Hindu descent. All at the same time thousands of people; thousands of Spaniards are crowding the streets there in anti-government protests.

They have all been peaceful demonstrations is taking place one day now before the national elections there. So what does all of this mean as it's happening all at once just two days after these deadly commuter train bombings killing 200 people?

Well from Washington joining us is Ben Venzke, is the CEO of a terrorist research group called Intel Center. And Ben thanks very much for joining us again. You and I spoke earlier, we talked about the series of collaboration between the Basque separatist group ETA and perhaps some other Islamic fundamentalist or terrorist groups. Is this sounding more and more possible now hearing of this multi ethnic group of people who have been detained? BEN VENZKE, CEO, INTEL CENTER: Right. Not necessarily in terms of a collaboration between ETA and Al-Qaeda. But this does clearly move the ball farther away from looking at ETA and much more concern over the fact that this is quite possibly an operation by Al-Qaeda or some type of affiliated group with Al-Qaeda.

WHITFIELD: Now what is interesting here is the interior ministry or at least the translation we're getting is saying very little about the details of these five individuals, only that they are being connected however to the kind of evidence that was located shortly after the explosions, that of a calling card, a cell phone, as well as explosives that were found in a bomb backpack. Do any of these things, to you, now that we are hearing a little bit more about the evidence, sound characteristic of ETA or any other group? Based on your studies.

VENZKE: Well by looking at the nature of the two groups and how they operate, the ethnic origin of the suspects and some of the other information that has been coming out from the backpacks and the unexploded devices, does seem, again, to point more in the direction of Al-Qaeda than of ETA. And this is what seems clear is these are not just people that the Spanish security services had been observing and because of the attack decided to round up. But it does seem to be clear that these are people that have in some shape or form a direct connection to the attack.

WHITFIELD: And why do you feel that way? Because these certainly on surface sound like pretty basic simple tools.

VENZKE: Well right, they are very simple, basic tools. But again in this is just based off of initial reports, which might turn out to be proven wrong. But it does appear that there is a connection between the cell phone that was found in those unexploded devices and these individuals. And that's a pretty strong link between the two, which would mean that these individuals would most likely either directly involved in the attack or had some kind of knowledge or support role in assisting the cells that actually executed the attack.

WHITFIELD: Now are you comforted by or have any suspicions of two days after the attack, these detainments taking place, given the fact the Spaniards have come out very vocally criticizing the investigation so early on?

VENZKE: Well, clearly this was a horrible strike against Spain and the Spanish people. And there are a lot of emotions and feelings that are at play now. This is, I think, a strong sign that the Spanish security forces, the police, and intelligence in Spain are prosecuting through this, as they should. They are looking at every piece of information, they are tracking down every little bit and pulling the information in. What is of great concern is if this is Al-Qaeda, it has been Al-Qaeda's tendency in the past year or so to conduct more than one operation. And there's great concern that if this is in fact them, that they might try to do it again.

WHITFIELD: OK, Ben Venzke, hold on a minute, on the phone with us from Washington. I want to bring in Brent Sadler who is there in the middle of it all where so many thousands have collected. Brent you and Al were talking earlier about the location of this demonstration. How pivotal it is to tomorrow's elections given that it's right across from the balcony where all the party leaders will be standing and generally would be waiving on Election Day.

SADLER: Yes indeed Fredricka. Sorry, it's bumpy on this platform. I'm actually speaking to you on a platform a gantry that was supposed to be used for live coverage of Election Day tomorrow. But as you see behind me thousands of Spanish and other nationalities are on the streets of central Madrid now protesting right in front of the ruling popular party headquarters. Now, this is unprecedented scene we are seeing here on a number of levels, not the least, technically speaking at least this is an illegal rally because effectively it could be interpreted as a rally in favor of the opposition against the ruling popular party.

We also understand from our sister network here Calnaplus (ph) in Madrid that within the next ten or 15 minutes, the anointed successor to Jose Maria Aznar, and Mr. Marion Aho (ph) is expected to make an unprecedented statement given that we are on the eve of a general election here in Spain. And within the next ten to 15 minutes, and that could well be a response from the opposition socialist party.

All this taking place at the same time, as we see the demonstrations on the streets of Madrid. Against the way the authorities have been announcing information about the inquiry, leading the Spanish and the world community to believe that ETA was the main suspect when many Spaniards thought for political reasons and for reasons of Spain's involvement in the war against Iraq, that information, crucial information about the perpetrators of these terror attacks might not be released until after general elections and for political reasons.

And so that's why many of these people are on the streets tonight. Also many people here protesting reminding the voters tomorrow that it was a very unpopular decision domestically at least for Spain to take part in that war in Iraq over a year ago. Because at that time, before the conflict started, before the invasion, up to 90 percent of the Spaniards were against Spain's involvement in that conflict. And as you know, in the past half hour or so, Spain's interior minister has come out with a very crucially important statement saying that five people have been arrested, three of them Moroccan, two Hindus they're described as, and two others Spanish origin are being held for questioning.

Hindus of Spanish origin being held for questioning, not formally arrested at this stage in the past half hour as we continue to see these events unfold here. I'm going to will bring Al Goodman in, if I may, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief and ask you, Al, if I can, what impact is this going to have?

And the fact that we may be hearing from both political parties, at this crucial time into the investigations into those terror attacks, just hours before Spaniards start going to the polls what does this all add up to in your mind?

GOODMAN: Brent, there are three consecutive unprecedented days here in Spain. On Thursday, the commuter train bombings leave 200 dead, 1400 injured. The biggest terrorist attack in the history of Spain. The next day, Friday and leaders have been pointing this out, today we heard a socialist leader earlier this day say that was not the only unprecedented day. Friday when 12 million Spaniards marched in the streets, the biggest demonstration ever. Now here, on the day of reflection, the day when there's supposed to be no campaigning by tradition, this is not like in some other countries that the campaigns go up to when the polls open.

No campaigning on this day. A day of reflection. And here you have this gigantic demonstration right out here in the streets in front of the popular party headquarters and you've got word from our sister station CNN Flues (ph) that the ruling party candidate Myriano (ph) Rehoe (ph) is due to address the people of Spain live on television.

Right now which is the time for the prime evening newscast from this building and soon after the social. They basically, the bombings on Thursday have basically thrown the rulebook out for this country. Brent.

SADLER: Al Goodman, CNN's Madrid Bureau Chief, thanks very much indeed for those insights. So just quickly, unprecedented events here in terms of the election and in terms of the way the investigation into Thursday's bomb attacks are unfolding in dramatic fashion here. Back to you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, very good thank you very much Brent Sadler as well as Al Goodman there from Madrid reporting on the two moving developments coming out of Madrid there. The protests involving anti- government demonstrators as well as announcements of five people detained now by the Spanish government all being connected with evidence found in an un-detonated bomb backpack.

Let's bring back from Washington now Ben Venzke who is the CEO of Intel Center. He's been helping us try to understand the various theories of who just might be involved. And Ben, we know the Spanish government has made it very clear that they don't want to point any fingers however they said that they are leaning towards the Basque separatist group ETA.

VENZKE: Right and I think these arrests might change that. And clearly there's very little information that is known beyond the ethnic origin of these five individuals. But it would seem to indicate towards moving the suspicion more towards Al-Qaeda and away from ETA. But at the end of the day we need to have more information in the investigation we need to precede further for us to know definitively who was actually involved.

WHITFIELD: And given the fact that Spain is also a place that is multi international and just because you have three Moroccans and two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu dissent, should not necessarily make people prejudicial to the fact these people may be involved in some Islamic terrorist group, correct?

VENZKE: Absolutely, you know, it is a very diverse part in Madrid. And there are people from all different parts of the world, and you can't leap to any kind of conclusions. The one thing that -- why this factors in somewhat here, is because when we are trying to make a determination between responsibility between say, for instance ETA or a group like Al-Qaeda or Islamic extremists. ETA is a group associated with a specific region in Spain, and that's been fighting for independence from Spain, and there are some commonalties between ethnic background and other things factors. But clearly these are just one piece out of many that need to be pulled together to actually determine responsible.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Venzke, hold on a minute. Let me just recap again for those who are just now joining us. The breaking news coming out of Madrid there, is that the interior minister has announced that five people have been detained in connection with evidence that was found near the locations of the train bombings on Thursday. These five people include three Moroccans and two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu dissent.

In connection with evidence that was found near the locations of the train bombings on Thursday. These five people include three Moroccans, two Spaniards of Indian or Hindu descent. Meantime, in Madrid, thousands of people have crowded the streets there in anti- government demonstrations.

It is being called a peaceful demonstration all be it very vocal. And what's alarming about that or most compelling about that is that this demonstration is taking place right outside the ruling popular party headquarters as well as outside the national courts building. Which is the headquarters to terrorism investigation agency. Now back joining us again out of Washington Ben Venzke who is the CEO of Intel Center he is trying to help us understand the various theories that these investigators are now trying to work on.

They have got five people in custody we don't know more about whether the arrest have formally taken place, we know at least though Ben these people are being questioned, is there hope in your view that these five detainees would be able to give enough detail to perhaps widen the net for the Spanish government investigator?

VENZKE: Absolutely. There's no question that this is a huge step in terms of the investigation going forward and trying to determine who is responsible, and directing and detaining the other participants in the attack. I mean sometimes you see, after terrorist attack like this that you'll see security forces go out and arrest a number of people, because they're arresting people that they've been watching for a long time and they want to bring them in for questioning.

But as opposed to that, in this case, it does appear that these five individuals were directly connected to the mobile phone that was in with one of the explosive devices. So there's a direct connection to the actual attack. And that does bode very well for the investigation.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Venzke of Intel Center. Thanks very much for joining us on the telephone from Washington to help us understand these latest developments out of Spain. On now to other stories we're following for you. At the top of the hour police and citizens of Fresno, California, are struggling to comprehend a horrible crime in their city. The bodies of nine people, most of them children, were found inside a single house. Police have arrested a suspect, Marcus Wesson. He is believed to be the children's father.

Authorities in Loudon County, Tennessee are trying to resolve a standoff with an armed teenager. A deputy was shot and killed Friday morning when he responded to a domestic disturbance. Four other officers were slightly injured. Police have identified the suspect in the home as a 16-year-old boy, armed with semiautomatic weapons.

Divers expect to recover the roof of the water taxi that capsized last week in Baltimore Harbor. At the same time, police say their priority is to find the bodies of three people still missing. Authorities say the boat flipped over in a sudden storm, dumping 25 passengers in all into the water.

Major breakdowns have ended the great robot race across the Mojave Desert in California. CNN's Daniel Sieberg has the latest details on the million-dollar contest from Barstow, California.

DANIEL SIEBERG, TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hi Fred, that's right. They came, they crashed. They tried to go far, they made it a few miles and in the end, none of the 15 autonomous robots that arrived here in Barstow, California, were able to complete the race. And we're here at the start area where it's very quiet right now. They had set up this area to start the race early this morning. A lot of activity frenetic activity as the teams started the race, trying to make it across the desert terrain about 200 miles from here Barstow to just outside Prim, Nevada.

The teams, this race was open to anybody. It was sponsored by Darpa, which is the research agency of the defense department, trying to find new ideas for autonomous vehicles. There is a congressional mandate for 2015 to have a third of the military vehicles unmanned or autonomous. The reason behind that is it would allow soldiers to not be put in harm's way and these robots could then do sort of the dull, dirty or dangerous work, instead of the actual soldiers on the battlefield.

Now as we are saying none of the robots were able to complete it. Some of them made it several miles. Most of them didn't get that far. And so they had to call the race. But these teams have been working for quite awhile. In fact they've been working on these projects for several months. There was a qualification process this week in which time they had to go through certain obstacles and certain trials before they could even get to this point to try to get that million dollars.

And there was a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of optimism behind these teams. They represented everybody from Carnegie Mellon University to Virginia Tech. Even a group of high school students were involved in this race. So it was certainly open to everybody to try and compete, in the end no one did, so the race is open for another couple of years. Darpa says that million-dollar prize may be available in a couple of years, about 2006 when they might hold this race again. All of the robots operated in similar manner using GPS, laser, sonar, computer programs, everything they could to try to traverse the desert terrain. Very challenging to try to go 200 miles even admitted by the organizers here, by Darpa. They realize it's very difficult to try to get across this terrain. Even during the qualification round there was some trouble with getting off the start line for some of the teams. But the enthusiasm is still here.

Darpa says they're optimistic about the future. That this is a learning experience and in the years ahead these autonomous vehicles will be refined and that they will be available in a more widely basis. In fact maybe even used by civilians. For now I'm Daniel Sieberg, live in Barstow, California. "NEXT@CNN" begins right now.

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Madrid; Legal Roundup With Avery Friedman, Richard Herman; Police In Fresno Still Investigating 9 Bodies Found In Home>