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Interview With Paul Wolfowitz; Tale of the Tape For John Kerry

Aired March 16, 2004 - 18:00   ET


ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for March . Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, keeping the coalition together. President Bush meets with an ally who plans to stay in Iraq and calls on others to stand firm in the fight against terror.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are cold- blooded killers.

KING: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz will be our guest.

For the first time, John Kerry in his words insisting some foreign leaders want a Democrat in the White House. As the president calls on Senator Kerry to back up that allegation, a CNN exclusive on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, a recording of the remarks that started an evolving campaign controversy.

"Exporting America." Secretary of State Colin Powell takes on the loss of American jobs to India with leaders in New Delhi.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a major issue we'll be focusing on in the months ahead.

KING: "Broken Borders" tonight, the government will use unmanned drones to spy on terrorists around the world to help keep millions of illegal aliens around this country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly, I turned around and she was gone.

KING: And "America's Bright Future," a remarkable 14-year-old who has inspired millions in her short life with five books of poetry.


ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Tuesday, March 16. Sitting in for the vacationing Lou Dobbs for an hour of news, debate and opinion, John King.

KING: Good evening.

Tonight, the White House is working to keep a crack in the coalition from spreading. President Bush today met with the Dutch prime minister, Jan Peter Balkenende, a day after Spain's newly elected leader said Spain will pull out of Iraq. President Bush said the coalition must stand strong in the fight for Iraqi freedom. And the White House said it might ask the United Nations for help persuading Spain to keep its troops in Iraq.

White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is live now with the latest -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, President Bush refuses to connect Spain's worst terrorist attack in history with the ousting of a pro-Bush, pro-war foreign prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar. The White House thinking behind this is that to do so would mean a big win for the terrorists.


BUSH: Terrorists will kill innocent life in order to try to get the world to cower. I think they're -- these are cold-blooded killers. They will kill innocent people to try to shake our will. That's what they want to do. And they will never shake the will of the United States. We understand the stakes. And we will work with our friends to bring justice to the terrorists.


MALVEAUX: Now, President Bush today met with the prime minister of the Netherlands in the Oval Office. That is where the European leader expressed his support, but he did not say that he was going to commit his own troops, about 1,000 troops, beyond a six-month period inside of Iraq. There are a lot of Dutch citizens who are afraid they may become the next target of the terrorists.

And, of course, not everybody was pleased with President Bush's tough talk when it comes to Iraq. They do not believe it's the best way to keep this coalition together.

KING: Suzanne, any efforts -- the new Spanish prime minister obviously disagrees with President Bush. Any efforts for any face-to- face or one-on-one telephone diplomacy to try to bridge this divide?

MALVEAUX: Well, John, there is certainly a lot of discussion about this, just what is the best way to continue the dialogue with the new prime minister.

One of the things that is in consideration is perhaps President Bush visiting Spain to meet with the leader personally and to recognize his new leadership. Today, there was some criticism earlier that the White House tone, the rhetoric coming from here wasn't appropriate in keeping all of the allies together.


SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: We should stop this bravado that has characterized some parts of the administration. Talk about the need for NATO to work together, get NATO into Iraq, get a high commissioner succeeding Mr. Bremer in Iraq turning the keys over to the Security Council and not to a super embassy, so that we demonstrate there's solidarity with Europe in this fight and Europe with us.


MALVEAUX: And one thing that the Bush administration talks about today, the solidarity, they say they have the backing of the leadership of Italy, Poland and Britain. That is, of course, encouraging news -- John.

KING: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you very much.

Now, five days after the terrorist massacre in Madrid, France now says it is investigating a possible new terrorist threat. Investigators say a Muslim group sent a letter to several newspapers threatening French interests at home and abroad. The letter cites France's proposed ban on Muslim head scarves and other religious symbols in public schools as a threat to Islam.

Meanwhile, new information tonight in the investigate into Spain's terrorist bombings.

Alessio Vinci is live in Madrid and joins us with the latest -- Alessio.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, CNN has learned that at this time Spanish investigators have identified six, perhaps eight Moroccan nationals believed to be the perpetrators of Thursday's attacks of last week.

Of all those, they all remain at large at this time, except for one. We know that one has been arrested last Saturday. His name is Jamal Zougam. He's a 30 years old Moroccan national. His name is not new to investigators here. He's mentioned in an indictment, an anti- terrorism indictment, that Spanish prosecutors filed last September linking him to another al Qaeda -- to an al Qaeda ringleader here in Madrid.

Also, Mr. Zougam is linked to two brothers who are held in connection to the bombing in Casablanca last May, when 31 people were killed, including the suicide bombers. Now, one of the two brothers lived here in Madrid with another man who shared an apartment with Zacarias Moussaoui, who, as you know, now sits in a U.S. jail in connection with the 9/11 bombings.

So, Spanish investigators really focusing on the Islamic militant trail, possibly linked to al Qaeda. And one more element regarding the arrest. The Basque police has announced that yesterday they have detained an Algerian national. Now, the reason why they have detained him is because, early this year, he was questioned on a minor charge up in the town of San Sebastian. During that brief interrogation, this man had mentioned the fact that there will be a lot of people dead at the Atocha train station.

The Atocha train station is where I'm talking to you from now here. The vast majority of the 201 people who were killed during Thursday's attacks last week died at this station -- back to you, John. KING: And, Alessio, as this investigation unfolds, many around the world and certainly in the Bush administration waiting to see what the new prime minister-elect does next from a political standpoint and in voicing his commitment to fighting terrorism. What should we look for next?

VINCI: John, we understand the next prime minister-elect, Zapatero, owe will be sworn in perhaps in a month's time. He has vowed to keep the promise that he made during the campaign to withdraw the 1,300 troops that are now deployed in Iraq unless the United Nations takes over or takes a greater role in Iraq by January.

But Mr. Zapatero also said he wants to keep a cordial relationship with the United States, especially with Bush, but a relationship that he has characterized not subordinate to the United States. Mr. Zapatero, however, also said that the election results in this country should send a message to other countries around the world, including the United States, making no secret that he would like to see John Kerry as president of the United States next November -- back to you.

KING: Alessio Vinci in Madrid tonight, thank you very much.

Now, Spain's decision to consider pulling its troops from Iraq is so far not encouraging other coalition members to follow suit. Britain, Poland, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and the Ukraine have all said they will keep their forces in Iraq. Meanwhile, today, senior United Nations official Lakhdar Brahimi said the U.N. is ready for a bigger role in Iraq, helping Iraqis form their new government.

That was one issue I addressed earlier in a conversation with the deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz. I began by asking Secretary Wolfowitz whether a new United Nations resolution could help keep Spanish troops in Iraq.


PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, we're certainly prepared to consider that. In fact, I think, generally, our feeling is that a resolution of that kind could be very helpful.

And we're inclined in that direction. But we're not the only voice in this matter. And the Iraqis have a lot of strong views as well. So we need to see. I would certainly hope that the Spaniards would find whatever reason they can to stay there, for two reasons. They are making a valuable contribution. They really are. In fact, they are providing the battalion size unit that is responsible for the very important city of Najaf, one of the holiest city for the Shia Muslims. And they are doing a good job.

But just as important, it would send a terrible message to terrorists if they think that, by killing innocent civilians, particularly on the eve of a democratic election, that they can make us cut and run. They failed to do that in New York. They failed to do it in Indonesia. They failed to do it in Istanbul, Turkey, not so long ago. They are failing in Iraq. I hope they won't succeed in Spain.

KING: You mentioned that terrible message, as you call it, in Spain. Is there any intelligence suggesting that perhaps another coalition member could be being targeted?

WOLFOWITZ: Well, I think a lot of us are being targeted, including the United States. And that's why this war is by no means over. It's going to be a long and difficult struggle, as the president has said over and over again.

But I believe the terrorists have a sense that they are losing and that Iraq is a key battleground for them now. You can read in the letter that Mr. Zarqawi wrote that when there's a democratic Iraq and Iraqis are governing themselves, I think the word he uses is suffocation. They will be fighting their own people and it's not a winning fight.

KING: Would such a resolution at the U.N. or will you need a separate document that essentially codifies an agreement that allows U.S. troops to stay in Iraq after there's a handover of sovereignty?

WOLFOWITZ: I think, if there is a new resolution, one of the things it would do is to make clear that for some period of time, the security of Iraq is in the hands of a multinational force.

And I emphasize that, because we hear all this silliness about a unilateral policy, when we have 35 countries, plus the United States and Iraq. And I point out Iraqis now constitute actually in their numbers the largest member of the coalition in Iraq. It's funny that people can say on the one hand we're unilateralist and on the other hand that the al Qaeda attacks -- or the attacks in Spain, if they were al Qaeda, may have been aimed at breaking up that coalition. It's an impressive coalition.

KING: In the past 48 hours or so, I believe the number is nine civilians killed on the ground in Iraq by a number of bombings and incidents. Is that just a horrible coincidence, sir, or do you see that as a new tactic by the insurgents in Iraq to go after civilians, not military targets?

WOLFOWITZ: John, there was a fascinating letter that was captured on its way from this leading terrorist in Iraq, a man named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, to his al Qaeda friends in Afghanistan, in which he makes all kinds of remarkable admissions and statements.

The two that are most relevant, I think, is, first of all, he says the Americans aren't leaving no matter how many wounds they suffer. That's a real change in the way these people have come to view us. They used to think that because of Beirut and Mogadishu that if you kill a few Americans, we run away. I think they have come to realize that's not the case.

So what are they doing? And that's the other part of his letter. They are trying to attack other vulnerable spots. They are trying to attack the Shia in order to create a civil war in Iraq. They are attacking the Iraqi police in order to stop them recruiting. Zarqawi has claimed to some of his associates that he was the one who bombed the United Nations headquarters back in August to drive the U.N. out of Iraq.

Unfortunately, he was temporarily successful, but the U.N. is coming back in.

KING: As you know, this week marks one year since the war in Iraq, the offensive in Iraq, began. I would like to close by asking you to finish two sentences for me. The biggest success for the United States and its coalition is?

WOLFOWITZ: Well, if you mean in Iraq, I think it's -- we have done two things. We've gotten rid of a major threat to the region and to the world, a regime that supported terrorism and was developing weapons of mass destruction. And we have liberated one of the most talented populations in the Arab world that I think has an opportunity to build a new Iraq that will set an example that counters the ugly, vicious example that the terrorists want to advance.

KING: And one year later, the biggest miscalculation or the biggest lesson learned would be?

WOLFOWITZ: Well, you know, everybody is looking -- I would say there are a lot of very positive lessons. One of the very positive lessons to me is how important it was to have a plan in place that allows us today to have gone from zero Iraqis fighting on our side on June 1 to some 200,000 who are taking the field now, suffering casualties at a current level that are actually more serious than ours.

This is their country. They need to fight to defend it. That's the basic strategy. And we're winning.

KING: Any doubt in your mind that there will be a handover on June 30? And what is your best guess today on how many U.S. troops will remain in Iraq after that date?

WOLFOWITZ: Well, I'm not in the business of predicting dates. We are very committed to having that handover take place on that date. And I think it's important because it will mean the end of the occupation. It will mean Iraqis being in charge of their own country.

But it's not going a change from night to day. It's going to be a change, if you forgive this metaphor, from let's say 11:50 in the morning to 12:15 in the afternoon. Some important things will be different, but we're still going to be there with a substantial military presence. There are still going to be a lot of killers on the loose. There are going to be a lot of Iraqis fighting with us to catch them. And there's going to be a lot of work still to be done to reconstruct the country that was savaged by Saddam Hussein and his cohorts for 35 years.

KING: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, thank you very much for your time, sir.

WOLFOWITZ: Thank you. Pleasure. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And still ahead, the tale of the tape. Tonight for the first time, Senator John Kerry's controversial comment about foreign leaders supporting him on tape. It's a LOU DOBBS TONIGHT exclusive.

Plus, the head of the nation's largest labor organization challenges President Bush and the government about American jobs going to China.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, make a choice. Are you on the side of U.S. working families or on the side of continued exploitation of workers in China and manufacturing jobs losses here in the United States?


KING: We'll have a special report.

And a breakthrough tonight in the investigation of a string of highway shootings in Ohio. That and a great deal more ahead.

Stay with us.


KING: A glimmer of hope today in what has been a disappointment for millions of Americans, the job market. A survey of big employers indicate at least some American firms are about to start hiring and hiring American workers.

But, as Peter Viles reports, the job market has been such a riddle and such a disappointment that even Alan Greenspan is now hedging his bets.


PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it the mystery of the missing jobs. Morgan Stanley says the economy is running eight million jobs short of a normal recovery, a lagging labor market even the White House has called unsatisfactory.

STEPHEN FRIEDMAN, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: Most of the economic signs are extremely positive. This is one that is unsatisfactory. Frankly, it's perplexing to the outside economists that we talk to.

VILES: A hopeful sign, a manpower survey of 16,000 companies finds 28 percent say they plan to increase hiring in the second quarter; 62 percent see no change in hiring; 6 percent say they will cut jobs.

JEFFREY JOERRES, MANPOWER INC.: I would sense that you're going to start to see modest hiring, building in the next month or two, moving through the second quarter. And then, when we get into the third quarter, if we can make it through at that path in the second quarter, we're going to see more robust hiring.

VILES: But hiring has been so slow and most economists have been so wrong on this issue that some are now hedging their bets.

In December, the Federal Reserve said -- quote -- "The labor market appears to be improving modestly." No such statement Tuesday, the Fed saying -- quote -- "New hiring has lagged."

CHARLES LIEBERMAN, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ADVISORS FINANCIAL CENTER: That's a statement looking backwards. The Fed in my judgment is remaining absolutely noncommittal with regard to what might happen to employment going forward. They are basically not offering a view.

VILES: It's not just a key economic question. It's a burning political issue now. When will hiring pick up?

ALAN BLINDER, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE VICE CHAIRMAN: As everybody knows, we're not seeing it up to now. And, as everybody knows, nobody knows when it's going to start.


VILES: And we know some of the factors behind this job slump, outsourcing, also increased productivity. The bottom line is, no economist predicted this weak a job market. And economists, really, John, at this point still don't fully understand why jobs are so weak.

KING: And, Pete, you mentioned the political debate. The White House likes to say perhaps it's not as bad as the unemployment report suggests or at least the number most people focus on.

VILES: Sure.

There is another survey, the household survey, which shows a brighter picture. But bear in mind, the Labor Department, Alan Greenspan and pretty much all of Wall Street doesn't really believe in that survey. They believe in the survey of establishments of businesses. It covers nearly half the economy. That's the survey that is continually disappointing.

KING: And the survey will be debated until the election and longer. Peter Viles, thank you very much.

The nation's largest labor union is calling for trade sanctions against China. The AFL-CIO says the abuse of workers' rights in China is a violation of U.S. trade policy. The union says those abuses give China an unfair advantage that has ultimately cost 1.2 million American jobs.

Bill Tucker reports.


BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Union leaders opened up a new front in their fight with China.

RICHARD TRUMKA, SECRETARY TREASURER, AFL-CIO: China has emerged as a chief violator of workers' rights and its work force is so large and its labor repression so comprehensive that it is dragging down standards for the entire world economy.

TUCKER: Because of that repression, the union says wages in China are 47 to 86 percent lower than they should be. And that means America workers are losing their jobs and watching their industries move to China.

TERESA LUNA, UNEMPLOYED STEEL WORKER: It was just 17 months ago that I learned I would no longer have a job. As I worried about the future of my family, I also worried about the future of this country.

TUCKER: Charges of worker abuse in China from the union are hardly new. But this is the first time anyone has used the Trade Act of 1974 to seek penalties for violations of workers rights.

The office of the United States Trade Representative responded by defending its record on labor and human rights, but refusing to comment on the complaints specifically. Under the law, the USTR now has 45 days to issue a more formal response and decide on whether to accept the complaint.

SHERMAN KATZ, CSIS: The facts I think here are irrefutable. They have opposed the creation of unions. They have penalized people who are supporting creation of unions. The hard part of the case is going to be to show the precise impact of those facts on wages and wage differentials.

TUCKER: The bottom line for the administration is, it's an election year.


TUCKER: And saying no to the complaint would enforce the cynical impression that the administration doesn't care about American jobs. Saying yes might risk offending the Chinese, but create a more positive scenario here at home, John.

KING: And let's assume they say yes and they take the complaint. Will we get a definitive answer before the election?

TUCKER: No. No. They don't have to do anything, if they decide to do anything, until December of 2005. So saying yes is kind of a no-lose for the administration.

KING: Might have to wait a while. Bill Tucker, thank you very much.

And coming up, "Broken Borders," a dramatic rise in the number of illegal aliens flooding across the Arizona border. And the government vows new tactics in fighting back. We'll have that special report.

Then, Senator John Kerry's comments about meeting with foreign leaders caught on tape. Hear exactly what Senator Kerry said in a LOU DOBBS TONIGHT exclusive right here coming up.


KING: The Department of Homeland Security today announced plans to increase certain at the Arizona-Mexico border. Helicopters, unmanned spy planes and additional Border Patrol agents will be deployed in an attempt to stop illegal alien crossings.

Casey Wian has the story from Los Angeles.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since President Bush proposed allowing illegal aliens to remain in the United States as guest workers, the Arizona desert has been under siege by border crossers. In the first two months of 2004, the Border Patrol cost nearly 80,000 illegal aliens, a 31 percent increase over the same period last year.

Many tell agents they have come to seek amnesty. In Phoenix last month, authorities uncovered more than a dozen drop houses filled with illegal aliens and smugglers. Border residents, Border Patrol agents and local leaders have been pleading for federal help. And now they are getting some called the Border Control Initiative.

ASA HUTCHINSON, UNDERSECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Through the ABC Initiative, we will be saving lives. We will be working to enhance border security and further impair the ability of smuggling operations and reduce violent crime in Arizona.

REP. JIM KOLBE (R), ARIZONA: Arizona for too long has been the gateway for people entering the United States from other countries. And people here in Arizona have been tired -- have gotten tire with the destruction of property, with the environmental degradation, with the impaired health care, with the strain on our law enforcement and other assets here in southern Arizona.

WIAN: The Homeland Security Department is adding 200 Border Patrol agents in Arizona and will also begin using unmanned spy planes, plus more helicopters, manned aircraft and remote sensors to track border crossers. The department is also seeking an agreement with Mexico to return captured illegal aliens to their home towns, instead of just across the borders where they usually cross again.

The initiative's cost is estimated at $10 million this year. A spokesman for the Border Patrol Union, which has been sharply critical of White House immigration reform efforts, called the additional resources better than nothing.

(on camera): More border security announcements may be coming. Homeland Security Department staffers have been asked to look for opportunities to place the president in settings that demonstrate his commitment to making the nation safer, the goal, one photo-op per month.

Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles. (END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And that brings us to the topic of tonight's poll: What is the biggest threat to U.S. border security, illegal aliens, terrorists or underfunding? Cast your vote at We'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.

And coming up, the tale of the tape, controversial comments from Senator Kerry caught on tape. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has acquired that audio. Hear it for yourself up next.

Then, Secretary of State Colin Powell goes to India and says outsourcing is here to stay. We'll have that story.

And tonight, the story of a young woman who is the shining example of what makes America's future so bright.

Stay with us.


KING: For a week now, the Bush and Kerry campaigns have been arguing over Senator Kerry's claim that some world leaders are rooting for a Democratic victory in November. The president himself joined the fray today. And now, for the first time, you can hear the Kerry remark that started this brouhaha.


KING (voice-over): A direct challenge from the Oval Office.

BUSH: I think, if you're going to make an accusation in the course of a presidential campaign, you ought to back it up with facts.

KING: At issue, Senator Kerry's claim a week ago that world leaders are telling him they want new leadership in the White House. CNN obtained a recording of the controversial remarks from a "Boston Globe" reporter who was in the room.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've met more leaders, Kerry said, who can't go out and say this publicly, but, boy, they look at you and say, you've got to win this. You've got to beat this guy. We need a new policy.

KING: Senator Kerry says he won't name names. Vice President Cheney says, why not?

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At the very least, we have a right to know what he is saying to foreign leaders that makes them so supportive of his candidacy.

KING: It's a campaign dust-up few believe will have major impact come November, but the Bush team views it as a Kerry misstep, to the point of suggesting he's making it all up.

Many Democrats think the senator's time is spent on other issues. And, on Sunday, Kerry himself suggested he was being misquoted.

KERRY: I never said that. What I said was that I have heard from people who are leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration approach and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States.

KING: The remark at issue was off camera during a meeting with campaign contributors. But on the "Boston Globe" recording Senator Kerry is clearly heard saying the word "met."


KING: Now Kerry says he can't name names because to do so would violate private conversations. Other Kerry associates saying if he did name those names the Bush administration might retaliate against those world leaders.

Joining me now to share their views on the Kerry tape and a great deal more. Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent for "TIME" magazine, Roger Simon, political editor for "U.S. News & World Report," and Tom DeFrank, the Washington D.C. bureau chief for the "New York Daily News."

Welcome all. Tom DeFrank, let's start with you, is this the silly season, this whole debate about the Kerry comments about world leaders or is it meaningful in any way?

TOM DEFRANK, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I think it is part of the silly season, John. I'm just so sick of the mudslinging already and we have 33 weeks to go. I don't know how we're going through all this. I think basically this is a case of the Bush administration trying very hard to put John Kerry on the defensive and get off the defensive themselves.

I don't think this issue is sticking yet. I mean it's a little unseemly for a candidate to in effect be enlisting the help of foreign governments in his campaign, which by implication is what Senator Kerry is trying to do here. This really seems to have stung the White House. As you well know, they almost never talk politics from the White House podium, but this week Scott McClellan, the press secretary, has been talking about this an awful lot which tells you it has struck a nerve in the White House.

KING: Struck a nerve in the White House. Roger Simon, has it also though struck a nerve about Democrats not so much that they think this is damaging but that they think Senator Kerry should be trying to build on his momentum right now. Today he is in West Virginia. He was in a booth in a restaurant where John Kennedy visited in 1960. Of course, if Al Gore had carried West Virginia, we'll set aside his home state of Tennessee, if he had carried West Virginia, he would be president of the United States right now. Is this the discussion Senator Kerry wants right now?

ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": No, I think both the Democratic party and Senator Kerry want this election to be about jobs, jobs, jobs. Where have they gone, why haven't they been created? They want to talk about the failure of the Bush administration to create jobs in America and the Bush administration seeming to embrace outsourcing. That's what they want it to be about. They don't want it to be about foreign leaders. It really is a tempest in a tea bag.

Once again it's Kingsley's (ph) law. You only get in trouble in this city, in Washington, if you tell the truth. I don't think there are many people in the White House that think George Bush is honestly popular with many world leaders. If he is let the White House release a list of those world leaders who would rather see George Bush reelected than John Kerry elected.

KING: A new endorsement competition between now and the convention started by Roger Simon right here. Karen Tumulty, let's focus on where Roger was just focusing on jobs. David Gergen was on this program last night. He says the president needs to do more. He says the president needs a new initiative, that he has lost momentum on the economy and to him, the beginning of the perception perhaps like father like son. Agree?

KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Absolutely. You certainly can feel like you have seen this movie before. We have an economy that by most measures, is picking up steam except that one most crucial measure which is creating new jobs and in particular creating new manufacturing jobs in a lot of these states that are going to matter so much in November. It seems like every time the White House tries to do something that might address it, most notably last week by appointing a manufacturing czar in the Department of Commerce, it seems to blow up in their faces. They -- that was just south of a few weeks of bad publicity from their own report suggesting that outsourcing was good for the economy. Which is something that most people -- most economists might agree with but people who have just lost their jobs don't want to hear.

KING: And yet, Tom DeFrank, while most would agree that this has been a rough patch for President Bush, he now is tapping into the campaign war chest he dwarfs Senator Kerry when it comes to money. We're in a period of time when the Bush administration launched a new ad today just in West Virginia. It is digging deep to launch millions of dollars in ads. How will this dynamic play out in the weeks ahead?

DEFRANK: The Bush campaign is going to have more and more ads, you are right, John. They have zillions of dollars and they have organized already. They are working on getting out the vote. They have to spend this money someplace and it's going to be on ads. I think we are going to have barrage and counter barrage for the foreseeable future. It's really going to be ugly.

KING: And Roger, what does John Kerry do in this period? He will spend as much as he has on TV ads but what else can he do to try to define himself or redefine himself to the general election electorate, if you will before the president does it for him?

SIMON: Well, I mean he's going to do stuff like making speeches as candidates do. There's been talk about him doing a world tour perhaps that's been -- going to be delayed or shelved because of this world leader flack. He has attention obviously around his vice- presidential choice. I suspect that there will be a series of rollouts of major and minor events between now and the convention to try to build an image of positive image of John Kerry. And to counter the fact that his ads so far have been negative in nature and have been responsive to the Bush's attacks. John Kerry has to take the lead, take the initiative and build a positive image of himself. Polls are showing that the American people still don't know very much about John Kerry and he has to get over that barrier.

TUMULTY: You know, though, John, one thing he's going to do tomorrow is go right to the belly of the beast, to the war-time president he's going to give a speech unveiling a bill of rights for military families. I think he is also going to be taking on Bush on the national security issue, but quite frankly, the other thing he's doing and something he probably ought to do, given that this flap over the world leaders summit is he's going on vacation for the first time since Christmas time. He certainly -- he is showing some signs of candidate who is probably not had enough rest lately.

KING: This is a week when all across America people are filling out their 60-40 grid on the NCAA pool, not for any illegal gain, of course. Let's have a Lou Dobbs tonight roundtable pool. When will Senator Kerry pick his running mate and who will it be? Karen, you go first.

TUMULTY: I'll go for May, but who will it be? That's a hard one. Not even going to go there.

KING: Roger?

SIMON: After Illinois wins the NCAA, Kerry will pick a midwesterner.

KING: Tom?

DEFRANK: After Duke and Wake Forest battle for the NCAA championship Kerry is going to pick somebody who can win him a state that he didn't get last time and I think that's got to be a midwesterner. I agree with Roger on that. I don't believe it's going to be a senator. I think two senators on the Democratic ticket is not good balance.

KING: Governor Vilsack likes what you're saying tonight. Tom DeFrank, we need to end it there. Tom DeFrank, Roger Simon, Karen Tumulty, thank you very much.

And still ahead tonight, the prime suspect in the string of shootings that terrorized Ohio drivers slipped through the authority's grasp. New disturbing information in the search for a sniper.

And clearing the air of deadly toxins. Critics charge the EPA is not doing nearly enough to prevent pollution. That story and a great deal more still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Records show the suspect in 24 shootings in Ohio has been pulled over twice for speeding since the shootings began last May. Police say 28-year-old Charles McCoy Jr. is believed to be armed and dangerous. Sean Callebs joins us now from Columbus with details -- Sean.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as darkness settles over the capitol city here in Ohio, the question remains where exactly is 28-year-old Charles McCoy. He is a man authorities identified as the chief suspect in a series of highway shootings that have terrorized many residents here in Columbus. Investigators are portraying McCoy as somebody who is mentally unstable. They say that he is suicidal with perhaps homicidal tendencies. The authorities have been keeping McCoy under surveillance but they lost track of him Friday. They last saw him at the house he lives in with his mother. Now, that was the same time that his mother last saw him, as well and she filed a missing person's report on yesterday. And just a couple of hours ago, McCoy's sister issued an emotional plea.


AMY WALTON, SUSPECT'S SISTER: Mom and I need you to call us. We will arrange for you to come home. We love you, we miss you, you need to call us. Thank you.


CALLEBS: Now this has been an investigation that has really been characterized by tight lipped police. And Authorities have made no statements today and they say they will not until there is a significant development in the case. Right now, McCoy has been charged with one count of felonious assault for allegedly firing a nine millimeter pistol into a house where people were. He fired two bullet into the house. Reports have said that authorities have taken a look at the fragmentation from the bullets and they have been able to track the ballistic information to at least eight other shootings around the Ohio area. There have been 24 shootings since last May.

Including, John, one fatality.

KING: Sean Callebs live tonight from Columbus. Thank you very much.

A major winter storm blasted through the Midwest, and hitting the East Coast tonight. Fifteen inches of snow fell in Des Moines, Iowa, the third largest snow fall on record there. Ten inches for forecasted for Ohio and airports are reporting delays. As much as a foot snow is expected in Boston, and Portland, Maine. And here in New York City forecasts are calling for three to six inches.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew it -- when the groundhog said we're going to have six more weeks of winter. Sooner or later it is bound to show up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a little cold, a little snowy, a little wet, I'm ready for spring.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm hoping for spring soon, get out of this stuff, wear some shorts, maybe T-shirts, that would be nice.


KING: If you ask me, that's beautiful out there. But the T- shirt weather is not too far off. The first official day of spring this Saturday.

Cold temperatures are not the only threat in the air. A 146 million Americans live in areas with toxic air according to the Environmental Protection Agency. A staggering 30,000 people die every year to exposure to pollutants, from power plants and diesel fumes. And critics say far more could be done to clean the air.

Lisa Sylvester reports.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just breathe in and out.

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Doctor Alfred Munzer monitors his patient for pneumonia. The lungs are one of the body's most delicate organs yet they are constantly bombarded by pollutants.

DR. ALFRED MUNZER, WASHINGTON ADVENTIST HOSPITAL: Air pollution is one of the worst offenders in terms of causing lung disease. It's especially harmful for the very young, very old or people who already have underlying lung disease such as chronic bronchitis, asthma or emphysema.

SYLVESTER: Indoor pollutants including mold, radon, and chemicals from new carpets and cleaning solutions. Outdoor pollution comes in many forms, secondhand smoke, diesel fumes, power plant emissions and ozone in the summertime. 160 million tons of pollution is emitted into the air each year, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. And one in six babies born could be at risk for developmental disorders because of exposure for mercury. The EPA insists it is doing everything it can to ensure clean air.

MIKE LEAVITT, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: We have devised that most aggressive schedule we can given the nature of the technology, we're going to push the technology and clean up the power plants, 70 percent reduction in mercury over the next 15 years.

SYLVESTER: But some worry the federal government is getting complacent backsliding on improvements made in the last decade.

BILL BECKER, ASSN. OF LOCAL AIR POLLUTION CONTROL OFFICIALS: We are lulled into at times a false sense of security and that's not right. We can't accept that. We need to be vigilant about the pollution problems that are out there because it's literally killing people.

SYLVESTER: Air pollution cannot always be seen with the naked eye. So, people may not even realize they are at risk.


SYLVESTER: California leads the country with the worst air pollution. Also topping the list the Midwestern states. Now, the biggest sources of outdoor air pollution are diesel vehicles and power plants. But John, there's also some sources you may not know about, dry cleaners and bakeries for instance -- John.

KING: Lisa Sylvester, tonight in Washington, thank you very much.

Now a reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. What is the biggest threat to U.S. border security, illegal aliens, terrorists or under funding? Cast your vote at We'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.

And still to come, some of your thoughts on "Exporting America." Secretary of State Colin Powell goes to India to face the touchy topic of outsourcing. We'll have those stories and much more when we return.


KING: Secretary of State Colin Powell is in New Delhi tonight discussing among other things the exporting of American jobs to cheap oversea labor markets. Lawmakers have introduced legislation to block the use of taxpayer dollars to export American jobs. The outcry in Congress mass made outsourcing a priority on Secretary Powell's international agenda.

Suhasini Haider, reports from New Delhi.


SUHASINI HAIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Colin Powell returns to the subcontinent and this time outsourcing worries, not India-Pakistan rivalries are high on his agenda.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's a major issue that we'll be focusing on in the months ahead.

HAIDER: Millions of dollars worth of work and thousands of jobs are moving from America to countries like India each year where companies like call center giant Daksh to lower cost. Daksh Sanjeev Aggarwal says his company has doubled in size every year since it started just four years ago thanks to American business.

SANJEEV AGGARWAL, CEO. DAKSH E-SERVICES LTD.: It's a very broad industry that was invisible to us than.

HAIDER: It's the same story for most outsourcing here who handle everything from kitchen appliance troubleshooting to stock market analysis for American companies.

AGGARWAL: Offshoring, outsourcing is competitiveness of industry. So, if an industry doesn't stay competitive that sector dies.

HAIDER: Even so Indian industry professionals say they worry about the ongoing outcry in the U.S. and proposed legislation in the U.S. that would ban outsourcing on most federal government contracts.

(on camera): Like in the United States, outsourcing jobs could become a big issue here. Indian Prime Minister made an appeal this weekend defending foreign companies bringing jobs to India saying those who oppose it are short sighted.

(voice-over): After his meetings Tuesday Powell said outsourcing is here to stay but America would like to see India return some of its dividends, and open up to more American businesses.

POWELL: We hope that there will be trading opportunities in other parts of the world so the United States can offset the kinds of losses that we get when we outsource jobs to other parts of the world.

HAIDAR: Tricky issues for the two countries to tackle. Suhasini Haidar, CNN, New Delhi.


KING: One Indiana factory worker who was laid off just last week has 49 million reasons to celebrate tonight. Tim Rivers is the sole winner of the Power Ball lottery. He and his wife, Pam, plan to move out of their trailer home and buy a new house. Rivers was laid off just last week from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) factory which makes parts for John Deere tractors. Now he won't have to worry about paying the rent.


TIM RIVERS, POWERBALL WINNER: It still hasn't sunk in all the way yet. I'm glad I got it, you know, it could happen to a better person, I would say.


KING: Good reason for that big smile. The jackpot was $89 million. He opted for the lump sum which amounts to about $49 million. Stocks up on Wall Street today. The Dow rose more than 80 points. The Nasdaq up nearly 4 and the S&P gained more than 6 points. The Fed. left interest rates unchanged. Christine Romans is here with reaction.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at least they have low interest rates going for them. That's the view of the stock market today. That and a natural bounce from a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) over the past week. The feds got interest rates the lowest since 1950s and as long as jobs remain weak the feds won't raise rates any time soon. That's certainly the view in the bond market. 10-year note yields at eight-month lows. That's good news if you're trying to buy a house. Not so good if you're looking for a job. The bond market telling us that the weak job market is a problem for the economy -- John.

KING: I'm not looking for a job, at least I don't think so. If I were looking for a job.

ROMANS: You want to be a banker. This is why, it used to be six figure salary was something to shoot for, but in the rare (UNINTELLIGIBLE) air of the big banks, John, eight figures is routine. Proxy filings today show Citigroup paid its CEO Charles Prince almost $30 million for his work last year and he took over the job of CEO in October. Not bad for a guy who's official salary is $638,000. And Chairman Sandy Weill got 44 million, see, that's 7 million in bonus, 17 million in restricted securities options, oh, about 2 million and $431 in other compensation.

Government filings show many of the large bank CEOs got eight- figure paydays. Citigroup, the biggest bank and now its CEO got just a little more money than the next closest which was Merrill Lynch.

KING: About equal to your bonus.

ROMANS: Thank you, put in a good word for me.

KING: Now a look for some of your thoughts.

Bill from California. "I've grown tired of these professors telling us how good it is to outsource jobs. Perhaps when their former students are watching their lectures being telecommed (ph) from Bangalore, they will better grasp the issue. What will they choose to retrain themselves to do? Clean the empty ivory tower they once occupied?"

Richard from Florida. "Let's the turn the job search into a sports-like draft. I want that CEO versus this CEO. I'm willing to pay him based on his performance and his marketability. If you get a dud, bench him, trade him, offshore to work in China for their wages. Same with VPs, CFOs, CIOs, all the way down to janitor. You have to pay to play."

Brandon from Pennsylvania. "Stop feeding this paranoia about outsourcing of jobs. I know when Leno starts making jokes about jobs going to India, things have gone too far."

Henry from Michigan. "Bushies have been hounding Kerry to come clean with the names to the European leaders who want him to beat Bush in November. Well, I think we can safely count the newly elected prime minister of Spain among them."

And Michael from Florida. "It seems that when most everything we bought was still made in the U.S.A., there were lots of good-paying jobs. Now that all the manufacturing is going to China, we have no good-paying jobs. But the government says we should wake up and see how things are getting better. I hope it does not get much better."

We love hearing from you. Send us our e-mail at A reminder now to check our website for the complete list of companies we have confirmed to be exporting America. Still ahead. America's bright future. The remarkable story of a young poet who began her career at the age of four. We'll continue in just a moment. Please stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Now the results of tonight's poll. What is the biggest threat to U.S. border security? 44 percent said illegal aliens. 14 percent said terrorists. 42 percent said underfunding. Now our feature series on America's bright future continues. Britney Grimes has already published five books of poetry and she is just 14 years old. She even counts a former president among her followers. Kitty Pilgrim has her story.


KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Britney Grimes comes home from school and starts homework with her sister. A normal routine for any 14-year-old. But Britney is anything but average. Her world is filled with poetry.

BRITNEY GRIMES, 14-YEAR-OLD POET: If someone says you will never be somebody, just continue to walk with pride. No matter what people say or do, they can't take the hope you have inside.

PILGRIM: She has written five books of poetry and a clip file shows she has been receiving accolades for years. She has letters of congratulation from President Clinton, has published in "Scholastic News," appeared at the Apollo Theater at the age of eight and came in first place in a poetry contest sponsored by McDonald's.

Her mother tells us she started writing spontaneously when she was 4 years old and hasn't been able to stop since.

DEBBIE GRIMES, BRITNEY'S MOTHER: Any time we go into a card store she would pull the cards down, I'll find her in a corner reading the cards, at 4.

PILGRIM: Britney's response to the tragedy of 9/11 was to write a poem which she sold in the community to raise $500 for the Red Cross. But Britney isn't serious all the time. Her book "Ice Cream Dreams" is a collection of whimsical poems.

She's a quiet shy girl. She says it's her way to express how she feels and encourages everyone else to find their own path also.

GRIMES: I am proud of who I am and you should be proud of you.

PILGRIM: A beautiful way to live. Kitty Pilgrim, CNN, Queens, New York.


KING: And that's our show tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow the president of the National Border Control Council will join us. Plus the young winner of the Intel Science Fair is our guest. And a milestone for the American sports icon, John Rawlings (ph), editor-in-chief of the "Sporting News" will join us. For all of us here, good night from New York, "ANDERSON COOPER" is next.



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