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American Morning

Terror Chief Cornered; Interview With Condoleezza Rice; 'Extra Effort'

Aired March 19, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A fierce battle continues in Pakistan as the second most wanted man in al Qaeda on the verge of capture. This morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice with the latest on the operation today.
On the one-year anniversary of the war in Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell returns to the city of shock and awe.

Crisis in Taiwan one day before elections. The president and the vice president shot while campaigning.

And panic at the zoo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little boy had been bitten and then thrown. And then he was picked up again by if gorilla.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Police in Texas respond to a gorilla on the attack. How did the animal escape?

All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Very busy news day today. The interview with Condoleezza Rice is coming up in just a few moments.

Also, we're going to hear from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs just ahead. He's talking about Iraq on this anniversary. Also talking about the huge battle that is going on in the outskirts of Pakistan. Now it looks as if 400 militants may be holed up in that compound or series of compounds, and the fighting goes on there.

HEMMER: Which would be double the number we have been talking about up till now.

O'BRIEN: Exactly.

HEMMER: Also this hour, every war has a learning curve. In Iraq today, we're looking back at what U.S. troops went through in that country. A year ago today, the war began. A reporter embedded with the 101st Airborne Division, logistical problems he can talk about, problems in the battle plan. Very interesting stuff looking back 12 months ago. So we'll have that for you also this hour.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing?

We're asking why Americans are so picky this morning. Seventy- eight kinds of orange juice, 250 flavors of ice cream. I mean, we got more choices than we ever imagined possible. So we're answering e- mails about that.

And viewers are beginning to weigh in on the furniture that we use here on AMERICAN MORNING. And I want to read you one of those letters a bit later, too.

HEMMER: The war is on the way.

CAFFERTY: It's a dandy.

HEMMER: Yes?

O'BRIEN: Well, I'm afraid. You see, he's laughing, which means...

HEMMER: Well, you see, he's had two opportunities this morning to rip on it, which is giving our viewers plenty of fodder.

O'BRIEN: It's not that bad.

CAFFERTY: It's terrible. You know what? Somebody said they spent tens of thousands of dollars. Did we get taken to the...

O'BRIEN: That cost tens of thousands of dollars?

CAFFERTY: That's what somebody said, yes. I'm sure it did, because that's what they do. They sell crummy stuff to news people for much more than it's worth. It's an age-old...

O'BRIEN: We need to get into that business.

HEMMER: It sounds like the government.

CAFFERTY: Yes. We should leave this and go do that. Sell that kind of stuff, make a fortune.

O'BRIEN: OK.

CAFFERTY: Good to be with you. Please go right ahead.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. I think I will. Let's get right to our top story this morning.

Pakistani forces say they have cornered hundreds of al Qaeda resistance fighters. The battle is intensified in a mountainous region near the Pakistani-Afghanistan border. That is where intelligence indicates that al Quad's second in command, Ayman al- Zawahiri, is holed up.

CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson is live for us in Islamabad, Pakistan, with the very latest.

Ken, let's talk about as much as you know about how this has developed, this battle has developed. What's changed?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it started out four days ago now, when President Musharraf went down and met with the tribal leaders and brokered the fact that this operation was going to begin, to seek their assistance. Then it started with tribal militias moving into the area. And they moved in kind of soft, not expecting the tough resistance that they encountered.

They received heavy losses and had to regroup. And then regular Army forces moved in, and then Special Operations Forces moved in. And then last night there was a very deep-pitched battle.

Reconnaissance assets have been placed on the site. The fear has been that they may be able to escape overnight because no one corners anyone in this part of the world because of the terrain, the topography, caves, et cetera. And the strong way that he protected himself in terms of defending the site, it's plain to see that he probably had a plan to escape and exited.

There's reports that an armored vehicle tried to escape the site and then the occupants of that armored vehicle retraced their steps and went back in to the compound and continued to fight. And they found blood inside the vehicle. They're thinking that potentially the high value target may have tried to escape in that vehicle.

And right now, the forces in the area have been reinforced to the tune of about 7,000 Pakistani forces. And the assumption is, is that they're receiving intelligence surveillance assistance from the United States government.

O'BRIEN: You know, and there's certainly -- in addition to all of that, there's certainly many people who would say al-Zawahiri is not a person who would ever be taken alive. If he cannot escape, that he would kill himself. Do you think that's an accurate description?

ROBINSON: I think it is, Soledad. The issue of al Qaeda is al Qaeda is not an individual. It's not Zawahiri and it's bin Laden. Al Qaeda is an idea. And for the west to be able to confront this and to change, they're going to have to confront the idea and change the idea.

The potential is, if he does die, we could see retribution attacks as well. If he's not found -- because they have a habit of burying the bodies right after people die, even during combat, then he lives on as a myth.

So this is going to be a tough one. The forces on the ground there are going to want to get down there and survey very quickly and be able to report back exactly what they found -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: If it is Zawahiri, and if he is indeed captured -- and granted, I will give you those are big "ifs" at this point, as you well know -- what do you think that does for the war on terror at this stage?

ROBINSON: Well, Soledad, it's a great psychological victory. It shows that the Pakistani government is trying to be an equal partner, as well as the Afghan government with the forces in the region. However, it doesn't do much for the global war on terrorism in terms of the independent groups, the cells which are out, which are leaderless now, which are spread throughout the world.

Those potential cells still have the ability to do harm and still strike back. And so the real issue that will be interesting for the national security adviser to talk about later in the hour is, how do we change the idea and how do we reduce hopelessness? Because hopelessness is the oxygen that fuels al Qaeda and enables them to recruit -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson is a CNN national security analyst. Also a member of Special Forces. Ken, thanks a lot for that update. Appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, a bit earlier, I talked with National Security Adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, asking her what the White House is hearing from Pakistan this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We really only have the reports that I think everyone has seen. That there is indeed a fierce battle going on up in these territories on the Afghan-Pakistan border. It's a difficult area.

It is, in fact, an area that has been largely ungovernable for more than 100 years. And so it's a fierce battle. We don't know who is there. But we will soon see.

HEMMER: Why do you think the speculation is so strong that it's Zawahiri?

RICE: Well, I suspect it because people are fighting very fiercely. And the Pakistanis seem to believe that they've got a high value target surrounded.

They do these operations quite frequently. And they know that territory. But I think we don't have any confirmation that that is -- that he is indeed there.

HEMMER: Are you dismissing the Pakistani claim then?

RICE: No, not at all. I think that the Pakistanis know their business. But I think we have to wait and see precisely who's there and to see when we will find that out. And I assume later on today or tomorrow we will. But it's a fierce battle, there's no doubt about that. HEMMER: Dr. Rice, there's a suggestion that this might be Pakistani hype. "We're a partner in the war on terrorism. Watch us now." Your reaction to that possibility?

RICE: The Pakistanis have been terrific. Many of the al Qaeda leaders that we have rounded up, it's been thanks to the Pakistanis. And so they are not hyping their activities. They have been one of the best of our allies in the war on terrorism. It's just that the situation is, of course, uncertain, because there's no way to verify precisely who they've got pinned down.

HEMMER: If you get him, the war continues, the war on terror. You said that yesterday repeatedly. But what would a capture or kill mean to that current war?

RICE: Well, obviously, if you can take out one of the most important leaders in al Qaeda, that's an important step. A really important step. But as we've said, al Qaeda is a network. And you have to break up the network.

We've already captured or killed two-thirds of their known leadership. That has been a blow against the organization. And the capture of a major al Qaeda figure would also be a major blow. But we have to do this systematically over time. There is no silver bullet to disbanding al Qaeda.

HEMMER: American help and involvement in Pakistan today, I understand there is aerial help. Are Americans on the ground in Waziristan helping the Pakistanis at this point?

RICE: Bill, I can't comment on any operational matters here, but to say that we obviously would help the Pakistanis in any way they deem necessary. But the Pakistanis are the ones who have been really involved in that area, and they are the ones who are putting in the fight.

HEMMER: If I could shift our focus to Iraq quickly. A year ago today, March 19th, the war began over Baghdad. There's a piece on the front page of The Washington Post today suggesting that commanders on the ground now believe that the extremists, the Islamic extremists are the ones who are truly pulling the punches today throughout Iraq, and not the former Ba'ath Party leaders. Giving the suggestion, yet again, that the critics who say Iraq has actually given birth to more terrorists as opposed to cutting off that system from Iraq.

How would the White House defend itself on that claim?

RICE: Well, first of all, these are hardened terrorists. And they were not drinking tea someplace.

These are people who were fighting the jihad. They were fighting the jihad someplace in the world. And many of them were fighting it in Iraq.

Zarqawi, the one battle leader for al Qaeda in Iraq, was there before the war. He was in and out of Baghdad. He had operatives in Baghdad who ordered the hit on the American diplomat in Jordan. Iraq was an important supporter of terrorist activities.

The al Qaeda are coming into Iraq -- or the al Qaeda affiliates are coming in to Iraq because they know that Iraq is a central front in the war on terrorism. And they know that when Iraq is peaceful and democratic and more stable, and no longer in the hands of a brutal dictator like Saddam Hussein, that their evil designs are going to be seriously harmed by the emergence of a different kind of Iraq and, ultimately, a different kind of Middle East.

Zarqawi knows why he's in Iraq. And he's there because he knows that he cannot afford to lose. He, in fact, said, "We're running out of time" in the famous letter that was found of his. He said, "We're running out of time, because when the Iraqis take this over it's going to be much more difficult to do what we're doing."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Dr. Rice from earlier today from the White House.

A little later this hour, General Richard Myers our guest, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Again, we'll talk about Iraq more in-depth then -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Other stories making news this morning, authorities in Yemen say they have recaptured two terror suspects for the October 2000 USS Cole bombing. According to government sources in Yemen, the two men were arrested after a shootout earlier today. They are both suspected to be major players in the USS Cole attack that left 17 U.S. soldiers dead. The two men had been on the run after escaping with eight other suspects in the Cole bombing from a prison in Yemen.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, has been released from the hospital after a shooting incident during a campaign stop. Taiwan's president and vice president were hurt when the shots were fired at the motorcade.

This is a video from the scene. The red circle on the bottom of the corner of the screen there, that is exactly where the shots were coming from. The incident comes on the eve of national elections there. An investigation is now under way into those shootings.

The suspect in the Ohio highway shootings is expected in a Las Vegas courtroom today. An attorney says that Charles McCoy, Jr. is expected to wave extradition. Could be returned to Columbus, Ohio, as early as tonight.

McCoy was taken into custody this week after his car was spotted at a Las Vegas motel parking lot. He's suspected in two dozen shootings along Interstate 270 in Ohio since May.

The FCC proposing maximum fines for indecency for a broadcast of the Howard Stern radio show. The $27,500 penalty for a Stern show broadcast was the current FCC maximum. The House voted earlier this month to increase the maximum fine for indecency up to $500,000. Similar legislation is still pending in the Senate.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, one year after the first bombs fell on Baghdad, has the U.S. accomplished what it set out to do in Iraq? We're going to hear from General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

HEMMER: Also, interrogators keep grilling Saddam Hussein, but is he talking? Interesting comments from a leading member of the U.S. government on that topic ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Saddam Hussein apparently believes he's outsmarting his own captors and enjoying the interrogation. This according to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitige. The former Iraqi president apparently has not given much information so far.

Secretary Armitage telling Australian TV -- and quoting -- "Saddam is a pretty wily guy who seems to be enjoying the give and take with his interlocutors. He sure thinks he's smarter than everyone else. That's for sure." Early this month, a Justice Department team went to Iraq starting the organization process, trying to get potential evidence that may be used against Saddam in a future trial -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Earlier today in Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived on a surprise visit coinciding with the one-year anniversary of the start of the war. He met with American administrator Paul Bremer, visited with the troops, spoke to reporters as well.

Earlier this morning, I spoke with General Richard Myers. He is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And I asked him about developments in Pakistan and Osama bin Laden's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I think we have to wait and see. I think there's a lot that we need to understand about what's going on.

The one thing I think we heard Dr. Rice a little bit earlier is that this is relatively new territory for the Pakistani armed forces. They've conducted now several operations in the so-called tribal areas. This is one of them.

Apparently, according to their sources, they have a pretty big fight on their hand. We're just going to have to wait and see which high value target they have.

O'BRIEN: If it is him, what do you think the capture would mean for the war on terrorism? How far does it go to dismantle the network that we just heard Dr. Rice talking about?

MYERS: Well, it's like capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. It's -- and the other al Qaeda operatives, the high level operatives that we've captured or killed. It's one step in a many-step process to defeat international terrorism.

So by itself, it's not going to stop plots that are already under way. It's not going to stop some of these operators from continuing to operate. But when you take the head off an organization, it's obviously gonna have an impact.

He's been around for a long time in this organization supporting it and leading it. So it will be a significant event, but it will just be one more step in many steps that have to happen.

O'BRIEN: Is your expectation that it will lead to the capture of Osama bin Laden?

MYERS: Well, certainly, if you capture someone like Zawahiri, that would be good news, because presumably he knows where UBL is or where he was. And if he talks or if he is captured with documents or other material, you might be able to find out where some of the other senior leadership is, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: I'd like to turn now and talk a little bit about Iraq and the one-year anniversary, which begins today. As we approach the June 30th handover, you have 120,000 troops now inside of Iraq. When do you expect these troops to go home?

MYERS: Well, we're going to stay there until the job is done. And I might mention, it's not just 120,000 U.S. forces. We have 24,000 coalition forces. The total is up to 35 nations in Iraq right now trying to give hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Plus, over 200,000 Iraqis in various security organizations.

And as we've noted recently, some of the attacks from the jihadists and the former regime elements are against these Iraqi security forces, yet there are more people lining up to take part in training their country.

O'BRIEN: In the wake of two bombings in just a couple days, it appears that Islamic militants are now entrenched in Iraq. It's not sort of the hit-and-run attacks that we've spoken about earlier done by the supporters of the regime. Is this progress then? Has the war on terror been made worse or has it been made better?

MYERS: Well, in my view, you know, it's just continuous progress. And providing security in Iraq is a very important thing.

And first, on this anniversary, I think we have to pay tribute to those members of our armed forces that have participated in this war on terrorism all over the globe. I mean, they are the reason that we're being successful.

The nature of the threat has changed a little bit in Iraq it appears. But we'll be successful. We'll continue to develop intelligence.

We're taking the fight to the enemy both in Afghanistan and Iraq and other places. And we will ultimately be successful. I would also say after a year in Iraq, that the political progress that's been made has been tremendous. We now have the transitional administrative law going to Iraqi sovereignty here at the end of June.

On the economic side, the infrastructure is dilapidated as it was. Oil production is at about prewar levels. Electricity exceeds prewar levels. Security, we've got more work to do, and we must continue to improve.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That's General Richard Myers. He's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff joining us a little bit earlier this morning.

Still to come, troops in Pakistan said to be facing fierce resistance. Al Qaeda fighters might be defending one of their most important leaders. We have that story as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Donald Trump apparently another major deal in the works. He wants to trademark a two-word phrase sweeping the country in primetime. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": This is a tough one. You're fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Yes, those two words. The Donald recently filed applications to trademark the phrase from his reality TV show "The Apprentice" for use on clothing and games and so-called casino services. This, according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Another -- or rather other tyrannical bosses won't have to worry if it is approved, because the trademark would only protect those specific uses. There's trademark law here. Meanwhile, "The Apprentice" is very, very popular.

O'BRIEN: Why do all those women look like supermodels? There's not one among them that looks like an actual CEO of a company.

HEMMER: It's the Donald.

CAFFERTY: There was a time in New York back a few years ago when he was getting divorced from Ivana when the world just had had much too much of Donald Trump. You know what? We're getting there again.

Question: Americans want what they want when they want it. USA Today story: Starbucks, 19,000 ways to serve a cup of coffee. Tropicana, 24 kinds of orange juice. Dryers -- and it is Dreyers, by the way. Somebody wrote and said it was Breyers. There's a Breyers on the East Coast, but there's also a Dreyers. And east of the Rocky Mountains it's called (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So they have 250 kinds of ice cream, and Frito-Lay has 60 kinds of chips. They started out with two. The question...

HEMMER: And that's not even talking about the pizza. I mean, how many combinations do you get for pizza?

CAFFERTY: We don't have time...

HEMMER: It's extraordinary.

CAFFERTY: We don't have time to go into that right now. In New York -- this is long, but this is, I think, interesting, and gets at something here.

Jay in West Virginia: "It's all about ego, Jack, driven by the small lives most of these people have lived. This is not Brokaw's generation, molded by life-changing events. It's a generation whose most life-changing event was not getting into the college of their first choice. Life for them is important only if they can act like some sort of cheap celebrity tying up a line at Starbucks, ordering a coffee that has more ingredients than something from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) National Laboratory. There's been no crucible of war or grinding poverty of a depression to shape their character."

HEMMER: Never underestimate an American generation.

O'BRIEN: I'm shallow because I like it with pulp?

HEMMER: I don't buy that for a minute.

CAFFERTY: Moving on to another letter here, Peter from -- please try to ignore these two on the left. Peter in Houston, Texas: "The poor are never picky. Food, water, a bed to sleep on, and some work. The rich are picky because they have so much."

"One draw back, having so much they fear to lose much, which gives rise to reluctance to fight what you believe in. So we believe in nothing and we have everything. Picky is in reverse proportion to beliefs."

John in Biloxi, Mississippi: "What's happened to your buddy jolly old Richard Quest from London? We miss his Friday's visits."

Well, I miss Richard, too. He's traveling the world either on assignment or vacation or both. And we presume at some point he'll be back.

And finally, Bob in South Carolina: "Hey, Jack, glad you finally said something about the furniture on your set. I have wondered for weeks what garage sale that stuff came from and when you were going to take the sheets off the couch seats. My mother always did that before company came."

O'BRIEN: There's no sheets on our couch. HEMMER: It's a lovely reflection of Soledad. It's wonderful. Thirteen dollars will get you a lot these days.

O'BRIEN: It is actually -- I have to say, I don't even mind how it looks. It's really uncomfortable. Well, maybe just because I'm pregnant. But I can't get comfortable.

CAFFERTY: You know, that guy who wrote about the depression and about the great wars and stuff, it's not the fault of anybody who's around now. But it happens to be the circumstances that the current generation grew up in.

HEMMER: I think the point is fine. But I tell Jay to tell that to the men and women fighting overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq.

CAFFERTY: That's not who the letter was addressed to.

HEMMER: Well, it was addressed to the younger generations of Americans. And I would always contend that, never underestimate what the American people are capable of when forced to rise to the challenge.

CAFFERTY: I don't think he made any aspersions on what the American people are capable of.

O'BRIEN: Jay, we need you to call in and clarify your point.

HEMMER: Don't call.

CAFFERTY: Yes. Call Hemmer. I'll give you his home number.

He spends his weekends alone, has no life anyway. Call him at home and talk to him about these things. Actually, you and Aaron may be playing golf this weekend, right?

HEMMER: I'm the caddy.

O'BRIEN: Oh, moving on -- still to come this morning, what could -- there we are. What could counterterrorism officials -- serious story coming up on our top story as well.

Counterterrorism officials, what could they learn if, in fact, al Qaeda's number two to is captured alive? We're going to look at that as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

CAFFERTY: Do they have golf courses over there?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, 9:32 here in New York. Other than that, there's 28 minutes here on AMERICAN MORNING. We'll catch you up on the fighting in Pakistan.

That number is increasing according to reports we're getting. It was 200 fighters there. Now some are suggesting 300 to 400 possibly. The hunt may be for al Qaeda's second in command. Also taking a look back at the fighting a year ago in Iraq. We'll talk to a reporter embedded with the 101st Airborne Division about the challenges the troops faced a year ago.

Stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the new segment that we're bringing you every Friday. We call it "Extra Effort."

Today, we're going to introduce you to a woman who's putting the needs of her kids above everything else. She's raising 15 children. Many of these kids have special needs. It's really an amazing story about truly an amazing woman, and her husband, who supports her, too.

HEMMER: Very nice. We'll get to that in a moment.

Also, breaking news from Washington. District of Columbia schools are locked down after bomb threats that are taking place. Public schools there in the nation's capital locked down today. A security sweep now.

A number of bomb threats have been received. This according to a spokesperson for the D.C. school system. Quoting now, "Six threats were made." And police there in the metropolitan area now checking every school and checking with schools now in lockdown. We'll get you more as soon as we get it out of the D.C. area.

So stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: It appears they didn't -- I'm sorry. It appears they didn't name any specific schools, but they named the system generally, which is why they've gone ahead with that lockdown.

HEMMER: Much more when we get it.

Also, from overseas, more international troops arriving in Kosovo in the former Yugoslavia. More than 30 people have been killed in clashes there, 500 have been wounded. It's been called the worse violence there since the end of the war back in the spring of 1999. Hundreds of peacekeeping forces expected over the weekend, including U.S. troops from neighboring Bosnia.

A Spanish court has charged five suspects in connection with the bombings in Madrid. Three Moroccans face 190 counts of mass killing and 1,400 attempted killings. Two other suspects charged with collaborating with a terrorist group. Meanwhile, sources say an Algerian suspect believed to be a member of al Qaeda has been released.

Yet another delay in the arraignment of the man accused of killing nine members of his family in Fresno. Authorities say they're still waiting to file formal charges against Marcus Wesson. Originally, the judge refused to hold his arraignment because the man was without a lawyer. Now the suspect has chosen an attorney, but that attorney has not yet decided whether or not he will take the case. (WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Al Qaeda's number two leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, may be surrounded in the mountains of Pakistan. Pakistani troops have been in a fierce battle with hundreds of fighters that they say are al Qaeda members protecting a "high value target." U.S. officials would like to see al-Zawahiri captured rather than killed.

Kelli Arena in Washington, D.C. for us this morning with much more.

Kelli, good morning.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, the battle that is being fought in Pakistan is a bit disconcerting to some counterterrorism officials. If Ayman al- Zawahiri is actually there, they want to get their hands on him alive. Because, as you said, he doesn't do them any good dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Counterterrorism officials say it's just as crucial to get their hands on Ayman al-Zawahiri as Osama bin Laden.

MATT LEVITT, FMR. FBI ANALYST: Al-Zawahiri is bound to have vast personal knowledge about things that are going on now, where operatives are. He's bound to have cell phones, computers, documents, all the kinds of materials that we are eager to exploit.

ARENA: Officials say it's probably true that Zawahiri spent most of his energy just staying alive, but say he may have real-time information regarding al Qaeda plots. Intelligence officials also believe it is his voice on recent and threatening al Qaeda audiotapes.

Officials say Zawahiri's capture could also offer clues to Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. They believe bin Laden and Zawahiri have maintained close contact and communicate regularly. If Zawahiri is turned over to U.S. custody as expected, officials say he will meet with the same fate as other captured al Qaeda leaders, such as Ramsey bin al-Shibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He'll be whisked away to an undisclosed location, held as an enemy combatant, and interrogated as quickly as possible.

KEN PIERNICK, FMR. FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: You're disoriented and you become unhinged. You have a sense of abandonment. And in that time, you are uniquely vulnerable and may be willing to say things that you might not after you've had the space of time to recover.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Now, it's worth pointing out that U.S. officials have no definitive information that al-Zawahiri is even at the surrounded compound. They are very much in a holding pattern. What's more, terrorism experts repeat what they've been saying for some time, Soledad. That the terror movement is much bigger than any one man or even any organization.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: We heard Condoleezza Rice saying that a little bit earlier this morning. That it's a network. And so taking out one is a good step, but not necessarily the only step.

Kelli, can we turn and talk a little bit about this bomb threat in the Washington, D.C. schools? Because it's on your beat. There was news that Bill was just breaking a minute ago about an Internet threat about bombs in five schools in Washington, D.C.. What do you know about this?

ARENA: Well, actually, there were six threats that came in, and they -- as you had said earlier, which is very important, none of the schools was named. And officials at this point are not sure that the threat is credible. But in this situation, obviously they have to be proactive.

Schools are in lockdown right now. Police are going to each individual school, checking it out, making sure that there's nothing going on.

In the meantime, you have an investigation going on into exactly where those threats came from. You know, without getting too much into speculation, this could be anything from a student who is wreaking havoc, to a legitimate threat. So a two-tiered investigation. One, make sure the kids are safe. The other, find out where the threat came from.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. Kelli Arena for us this morning on a couple of topics.

Thanks, Kelly. Appreciate it.

HEMMER: And 20 minutes before the hour now. March 19th on the calendar.

This is the day marking one year ago when the invasion of Iraq began. And from the call of duty in Iraq, to the fall of Baghdad, a new book takes you to the very front lines with the 101st Airborne Division. Washington Post reporter Rick Atkinson spent about two months embedded with this unit. His book is called "In the Company of Soldiers." It's out today, in fact.

This week, I talked with Rick about his experience there and his chronicle of that war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK ATKINSON, AUTHOR, "IN THE COMPANY OF SOLDIERS": It was a successful military operation. They got to Baghdad in three weeks. They took down a country the size of California, the 25 million people in three weeks.

There was just not much thought or talk devoted to the issue of, OK, what happens now? How do we make sure that the country doesn't implode? How do we go about re-establishing civil authority in Iraq?

The soldiers in the 101st, sure, the military policemen talked about being MPs. But there was really not by the Army or by the armed forces generally the kind of intricate thinking about how you were going to impose phase four, as the Army called it, on Iraq once the shooting had stopped, or at least ebbed.

HEMMER: So at the time, conversation only centered on the battle itself, crossing in northern Kuwait? Nothing post war?

ATKINSON: It's astonishing how little thought was given to what was going to happen after the shooting stopped or at least ebbed. There had been studies done. They had been thinking about it by the State Department and so on. It just did not make its way out into the field.

HEMMER: Is that the responsibility of a soldier or a commander?

ATKINSON: Well, it's the responsibility of senior commanders, I would say. And it's a responsibility, frankly, of the national command authority, from the president, secretary of state, secretary of defense. They're the ones who need to make sure, I think, that, in fact, people are ready for the next step, whatever the next step is going to be.

HEMMER: Do you think there's a lesson learned from that today that's already gone into the military thinking in the Pentagon?

ATKINSON: Oh, you hope so. Because it's clear that you can win the war and lose the peace.

It's a victory of the worst kind if, in fact, you get to Baghdad in three weeks and the country disintegrates ultimately into civil war. We've got 560 some dead American soldiers. You want to make sure that their deaths mean something.

O'BRIEN: It was my experience in Kuwait with the Marines they were relatively gung-ho about carrying out this battle and this war and getting it on like so many had said to me personally. Did you have the same sense?

ATKINSON: Sure. The 101st Airborne Division is the original band of brothers. And they're nothing if not gung-ho.

I think what you saw was a sobriety, though, that set in early. The 101st first casualties came from a fragging (ph). Self-inflicted, a sergeant has been accused of murder, rolled three grenades into tents really the night the division was going into Iraq.

HEMMER: And that was back in Kuwait.

ATKINSON: That was in Kuwait. Two officers killed, 15 wounded. That was a very sobering experience for the division.

HEMMER: When they crossed into Iraq and they met the resistance, how did you gauge the response?

ATKINSON: Well, the resistance was unexpected in the sense that the Apache helicopters -- the 101st has 72 of them -- proved to be very vulnerable. The 11th attack helicopter regiment, a different unit, had flown out on the early morning of the 23rd of March. Two helicopters lost.

Of the 30 that came back, 29 were full of holes, averaging 15 to 20 holes a piece. Basically from small arms fire. The Iraqis had done things like flipped the lights of a town off and on as a signal for everyone with a weapon to fire up into the air.

That was also sobering. So there was a recognition that the Iraqis were going to use tactics that had not been anticipated.

O'BRIEN: General Patraeus asked you many times, I understand, "Tell me how this ends."

ATKINSON: Yes. General Patraeus is a very interesting character. He's the son of a Dutch sea captain. Kind of an unusual background. And he also has a Ph.D. from Princeton.

And he asked me about the 26th of March, tongue and cheek, "Tell me how this ends." And it became his mantra. And it became a private joke between us. "Tell me how this ends."

HEMMER: Your response was what?

ATKINSON: My response was, "You're the general. You tell me how it ends."

HEMMER: Wow.

ATKINSON: And he was not talking, of course, just about the war. He was talking about the whole campaign, the whole business that we're in now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Rick Atkinson earlier in the week, 101st Airborne Division based in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Fought battles in Karbala, Najaf and Hillah, en route to Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, ex Tyco chief Dennis Kozlowski on trial. What are the juries thinking? Andy's got some insight he's going to share in just a moment.

HEMMER: Also, meet a mom who raised seven kids, then turned around and brought more children into her home. Most of them disabled. Her "Extra Effort" in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAFFERTY: Get the latest now on the Tyco trial. And look at how the markets are set to start out on a quadruple-witching Friday. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Four witches.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: The day of four witches. That's the expiration of stock options and futures, and index options and futures, for those of you who want to know that kind of thing.

Markets jumping all over the place this morning, down 27. It was up. That's because of said witching.

Also, markets watching developments in Pakistan. That's unsettling as well.

Nike reporting great numbers after the close last night. That stock has been moving from 50 to 76 over the past year. Wished you owned that one, I bet.

Coca-Cola is also probably going to be active today as well. We reported this earlier. They're pulling all of their Dasani water products in the U.K. Levels of bromide exceeding U.K. legal standards there.

Of course, ironic, because a couple weeks ago there was a story about how they get this water from the tap and purify it. A common practice in the business. Still, unsettling over there.

Now, let's talk about Tyco. Jury deliberations began yesterday. They continue today. And could it be that the jury is leaning toward an acquittal? Wow.

CAFFERTY: Let's hope not.

SERWER: It could be happening, though, Jack. A couple things. The jury sent a note to the judge asking a question, "Can a defendant who believes he or she is not committing a crime ever be found to act with criminal intent?" Well, I thought the answer was yes in this country.

CAFFERTY: Can you spell naive?

SERWER: Yes.


Aired March 19, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A fierce battle continues in Pakistan as the second most wanted man in al Qaeda on the verge of capture. This morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice with the latest on the operation today.
On the one-year anniversary of the war in Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell returns to the city of shock and awe.

Crisis in Taiwan one day before elections. The president and the vice president shot while campaigning.

And panic at the zoo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little boy had been bitten and then thrown. And then he was picked up again by if gorilla.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Police in Texas respond to a gorilla on the attack. How did the animal escape?

All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody. Very busy news day today. The interview with Condoleezza Rice is coming up in just a few moments.

Also, we're going to hear from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs just ahead. He's talking about Iraq on this anniversary. Also talking about the huge battle that is going on in the outskirts of Pakistan. Now it looks as if 400 militants may be holed up in that compound or series of compounds, and the fighting goes on there.

HEMMER: Which would be double the number we have been talking about up till now.

O'BRIEN: Exactly.

HEMMER: Also this hour, every war has a learning curve. In Iraq today, we're looking back at what U.S. troops went through in that country. A year ago today, the war began. A reporter embedded with the 101st Airborne Division, logistical problems he can talk about, problems in the battle plan. Very interesting stuff looking back 12 months ago. So we'll have that for you also this hour.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing?

We're asking why Americans are so picky this morning. Seventy- eight kinds of orange juice, 250 flavors of ice cream. I mean, we got more choices than we ever imagined possible. So we're answering e- mails about that.

And viewers are beginning to weigh in on the furniture that we use here on AMERICAN MORNING. And I want to read you one of those letters a bit later, too.

HEMMER: The war is on the way.

CAFFERTY: It's a dandy.

HEMMER: Yes?

O'BRIEN: Well, I'm afraid. You see, he's laughing, which means...

HEMMER: Well, you see, he's had two opportunities this morning to rip on it, which is giving our viewers plenty of fodder.

O'BRIEN: It's not that bad.

CAFFERTY: It's terrible. You know what? Somebody said they spent tens of thousands of dollars. Did we get taken to the...

O'BRIEN: That cost tens of thousands of dollars?

CAFFERTY: That's what somebody said, yes. I'm sure it did, because that's what they do. They sell crummy stuff to news people for much more than it's worth. It's an age-old...

O'BRIEN: We need to get into that business.

HEMMER: It sounds like the government.

CAFFERTY: Yes. We should leave this and go do that. Sell that kind of stuff, make a fortune.

O'BRIEN: OK.

CAFFERTY: Good to be with you. Please go right ahead.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much. I think I will. Let's get right to our top story this morning.

Pakistani forces say they have cornered hundreds of al Qaeda resistance fighters. The battle is intensified in a mountainous region near the Pakistani-Afghanistan border. That is where intelligence indicates that al Quad's second in command, Ayman al- Zawahiri, is holed up.

CNN national security analyst Ken Robinson is live for us in Islamabad, Pakistan, with the very latest.

Ken, let's talk about as much as you know about how this has developed, this battle has developed. What's changed?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it started out four days ago now, when President Musharraf went down and met with the tribal leaders and brokered the fact that this operation was going to begin, to seek their assistance. Then it started with tribal militias moving into the area. And they moved in kind of soft, not expecting the tough resistance that they encountered.

They received heavy losses and had to regroup. And then regular Army forces moved in, and then Special Operations Forces moved in. And then last night there was a very deep-pitched battle.

Reconnaissance assets have been placed on the site. The fear has been that they may be able to escape overnight because no one corners anyone in this part of the world because of the terrain, the topography, caves, et cetera. And the strong way that he protected himself in terms of defending the site, it's plain to see that he probably had a plan to escape and exited.

There's reports that an armored vehicle tried to escape the site and then the occupants of that armored vehicle retraced their steps and went back in to the compound and continued to fight. And they found blood inside the vehicle. They're thinking that potentially the high value target may have tried to escape in that vehicle.

And right now, the forces in the area have been reinforced to the tune of about 7,000 Pakistani forces. And the assumption is, is that they're receiving intelligence surveillance assistance from the United States government.

O'BRIEN: You know, and there's certainly -- in addition to all of that, there's certainly many people who would say al-Zawahiri is not a person who would ever be taken alive. If he cannot escape, that he would kill himself. Do you think that's an accurate description?

ROBINSON: I think it is, Soledad. The issue of al Qaeda is al Qaeda is not an individual. It's not Zawahiri and it's bin Laden. Al Qaeda is an idea. And for the west to be able to confront this and to change, they're going to have to confront the idea and change the idea.

The potential is, if he does die, we could see retribution attacks as well. If he's not found -- because they have a habit of burying the bodies right after people die, even during combat, then he lives on as a myth.

So this is going to be a tough one. The forces on the ground there are going to want to get down there and survey very quickly and be able to report back exactly what they found -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: If it is Zawahiri, and if he is indeed captured -- and granted, I will give you those are big "ifs" at this point, as you well know -- what do you think that does for the war on terror at this stage?

ROBINSON: Well, Soledad, it's a great psychological victory. It shows that the Pakistani government is trying to be an equal partner, as well as the Afghan government with the forces in the region. However, it doesn't do much for the global war on terrorism in terms of the independent groups, the cells which are out, which are leaderless now, which are spread throughout the world.

Those potential cells still have the ability to do harm and still strike back. And so the real issue that will be interesting for the national security adviser to talk about later in the hour is, how do we change the idea and how do we reduce hopelessness? Because hopelessness is the oxygen that fuels al Qaeda and enables them to recruit -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ken Robinson is a CNN national security analyst. Also a member of Special Forces. Ken, thanks a lot for that update. Appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, a bit earlier, I talked with National Security Adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, asking her what the White House is hearing from Pakistan this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We really only have the reports that I think everyone has seen. That there is indeed a fierce battle going on up in these territories on the Afghan-Pakistan border. It's a difficult area.

It is, in fact, an area that has been largely ungovernable for more than 100 years. And so it's a fierce battle. We don't know who is there. But we will soon see.

HEMMER: Why do you think the speculation is so strong that it's Zawahiri?

RICE: Well, I suspect it because people are fighting very fiercely. And the Pakistanis seem to believe that they've got a high value target surrounded.

They do these operations quite frequently. And they know that territory. But I think we don't have any confirmation that that is -- that he is indeed there.

HEMMER: Are you dismissing the Pakistani claim then?

RICE: No, not at all. I think that the Pakistanis know their business. But I think we have to wait and see precisely who's there and to see when we will find that out. And I assume later on today or tomorrow we will. But it's a fierce battle, there's no doubt about that. HEMMER: Dr. Rice, there's a suggestion that this might be Pakistani hype. "We're a partner in the war on terrorism. Watch us now." Your reaction to that possibility?

RICE: The Pakistanis have been terrific. Many of the al Qaeda leaders that we have rounded up, it's been thanks to the Pakistanis. And so they are not hyping their activities. They have been one of the best of our allies in the war on terrorism. It's just that the situation is, of course, uncertain, because there's no way to verify precisely who they've got pinned down.

HEMMER: If you get him, the war continues, the war on terror. You said that yesterday repeatedly. But what would a capture or kill mean to that current war?

RICE: Well, obviously, if you can take out one of the most important leaders in al Qaeda, that's an important step. A really important step. But as we've said, al Qaeda is a network. And you have to break up the network.

We've already captured or killed two-thirds of their known leadership. That has been a blow against the organization. And the capture of a major al Qaeda figure would also be a major blow. But we have to do this systematically over time. There is no silver bullet to disbanding al Qaeda.

HEMMER: American help and involvement in Pakistan today, I understand there is aerial help. Are Americans on the ground in Waziristan helping the Pakistanis at this point?

RICE: Bill, I can't comment on any operational matters here, but to say that we obviously would help the Pakistanis in any way they deem necessary. But the Pakistanis are the ones who have been really involved in that area, and they are the ones who are putting in the fight.

HEMMER: If I could shift our focus to Iraq quickly. A year ago today, March 19th, the war began over Baghdad. There's a piece on the front page of The Washington Post today suggesting that commanders on the ground now believe that the extremists, the Islamic extremists are the ones who are truly pulling the punches today throughout Iraq, and not the former Ba'ath Party leaders. Giving the suggestion, yet again, that the critics who say Iraq has actually given birth to more terrorists as opposed to cutting off that system from Iraq.

How would the White House defend itself on that claim?

RICE: Well, first of all, these are hardened terrorists. And they were not drinking tea someplace.

These are people who were fighting the jihad. They were fighting the jihad someplace in the world. And many of them were fighting it in Iraq.

Zarqawi, the one battle leader for al Qaeda in Iraq, was there before the war. He was in and out of Baghdad. He had operatives in Baghdad who ordered the hit on the American diplomat in Jordan. Iraq was an important supporter of terrorist activities.

The al Qaeda are coming into Iraq -- or the al Qaeda affiliates are coming in to Iraq because they know that Iraq is a central front in the war on terrorism. And they know that when Iraq is peaceful and democratic and more stable, and no longer in the hands of a brutal dictator like Saddam Hussein, that their evil designs are going to be seriously harmed by the emergence of a different kind of Iraq and, ultimately, a different kind of Middle East.

Zarqawi knows why he's in Iraq. And he's there because he knows that he cannot afford to lose. He, in fact, said, "We're running out of time" in the famous letter that was found of his. He said, "We're running out of time, because when the Iraqis take this over it's going to be much more difficult to do what we're doing."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Dr. Rice from earlier today from the White House.

A little later this hour, General Richard Myers our guest, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Again, we'll talk about Iraq more in-depth then -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Other stories making news this morning, authorities in Yemen say they have recaptured two terror suspects for the October 2000 USS Cole bombing. According to government sources in Yemen, the two men were arrested after a shootout earlier today. They are both suspected to be major players in the USS Cole attack that left 17 U.S. soldiers dead. The two men had been on the run after escaping with eight other suspects in the Cole bombing from a prison in Yemen.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, has been released from the hospital after a shooting incident during a campaign stop. Taiwan's president and vice president were hurt when the shots were fired at the motorcade.

This is a video from the scene. The red circle on the bottom of the corner of the screen there, that is exactly where the shots were coming from. The incident comes on the eve of national elections there. An investigation is now under way into those shootings.

The suspect in the Ohio highway shootings is expected in a Las Vegas courtroom today. An attorney says that Charles McCoy, Jr. is expected to wave extradition. Could be returned to Columbus, Ohio, as early as tonight.

McCoy was taken into custody this week after his car was spotted at a Las Vegas motel parking lot. He's suspected in two dozen shootings along Interstate 270 in Ohio since May.

The FCC proposing maximum fines for indecency for a broadcast of the Howard Stern radio show. The $27,500 penalty for a Stern show broadcast was the current FCC maximum. The House voted earlier this month to increase the maximum fine for indecency up to $500,000. Similar legislation is still pending in the Senate.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, one year after the first bombs fell on Baghdad, has the U.S. accomplished what it set out to do in Iraq? We're going to hear from General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

HEMMER: Also, interrogators keep grilling Saddam Hussein, but is he talking? Interesting comments from a leading member of the U.S. government on that topic ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Saddam Hussein apparently believes he's outsmarting his own captors and enjoying the interrogation. This according to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitige. The former Iraqi president apparently has not given much information so far.

Secretary Armitage telling Australian TV -- and quoting -- "Saddam is a pretty wily guy who seems to be enjoying the give and take with his interlocutors. He sure thinks he's smarter than everyone else. That's for sure." Early this month, a Justice Department team went to Iraq starting the organization process, trying to get potential evidence that may be used against Saddam in a future trial -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Earlier today in Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived on a surprise visit coinciding with the one-year anniversary of the start of the war. He met with American administrator Paul Bremer, visited with the troops, spoke to reporters as well.

Earlier this morning, I spoke with General Richard Myers. He is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And I asked him about developments in Pakistan and Osama bin Laden's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I think we have to wait and see. I think there's a lot that we need to understand about what's going on.

The one thing I think we heard Dr. Rice a little bit earlier is that this is relatively new territory for the Pakistani armed forces. They've conducted now several operations in the so-called tribal areas. This is one of them.

Apparently, according to their sources, they have a pretty big fight on their hand. We're just going to have to wait and see which high value target they have.

O'BRIEN: If it is him, what do you think the capture would mean for the war on terrorism? How far does it go to dismantle the network that we just heard Dr. Rice talking about?

MYERS: Well, it's like capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. It's -- and the other al Qaeda operatives, the high level operatives that we've captured or killed. It's one step in a many-step process to defeat international terrorism.

So by itself, it's not going to stop plots that are already under way. It's not going to stop some of these operators from continuing to operate. But when you take the head off an organization, it's obviously gonna have an impact.

He's been around for a long time in this organization supporting it and leading it. So it will be a significant event, but it will just be one more step in many steps that have to happen.

O'BRIEN: Is your expectation that it will lead to the capture of Osama bin Laden?

MYERS: Well, certainly, if you capture someone like Zawahiri, that would be good news, because presumably he knows where UBL is or where he was. And if he talks or if he is captured with documents or other material, you might be able to find out where some of the other senior leadership is, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: I'd like to turn now and talk a little bit about Iraq and the one-year anniversary, which begins today. As we approach the June 30th handover, you have 120,000 troops now inside of Iraq. When do you expect these troops to go home?

MYERS: Well, we're going to stay there until the job is done. And I might mention, it's not just 120,000 U.S. forces. We have 24,000 coalition forces. The total is up to 35 nations in Iraq right now trying to give hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Plus, over 200,000 Iraqis in various security organizations.

And as we've noted recently, some of the attacks from the jihadists and the former regime elements are against these Iraqi security forces, yet there are more people lining up to take part in training their country.

O'BRIEN: In the wake of two bombings in just a couple days, it appears that Islamic militants are now entrenched in Iraq. It's not sort of the hit-and-run attacks that we've spoken about earlier done by the supporters of the regime. Is this progress then? Has the war on terror been made worse or has it been made better?

MYERS: Well, in my view, you know, it's just continuous progress. And providing security in Iraq is a very important thing.

And first, on this anniversary, I think we have to pay tribute to those members of our armed forces that have participated in this war on terrorism all over the globe. I mean, they are the reason that we're being successful.

The nature of the threat has changed a little bit in Iraq it appears. But we'll be successful. We'll continue to develop intelligence.

We're taking the fight to the enemy both in Afghanistan and Iraq and other places. And we will ultimately be successful. I would also say after a year in Iraq, that the political progress that's been made has been tremendous. We now have the transitional administrative law going to Iraqi sovereignty here at the end of June.

On the economic side, the infrastructure is dilapidated as it was. Oil production is at about prewar levels. Electricity exceeds prewar levels. Security, we've got more work to do, and we must continue to improve.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That's General Richard Myers. He's the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff joining us a little bit earlier this morning.

Still to come, troops in Pakistan said to be facing fierce resistance. Al Qaeda fighters might be defending one of their most important leaders. We have that story as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Donald Trump apparently another major deal in the works. He wants to trademark a two-word phrase sweeping the country in primetime. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": This is a tough one. You're fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Yes, those two words. The Donald recently filed applications to trademark the phrase from his reality TV show "The Apprentice" for use on clothing and games and so-called casino services. This, according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Another -- or rather other tyrannical bosses won't have to worry if it is approved, because the trademark would only protect those specific uses. There's trademark law here. Meanwhile, "The Apprentice" is very, very popular.

O'BRIEN: Why do all those women look like supermodels? There's not one among them that looks like an actual CEO of a company.

HEMMER: It's the Donald.

CAFFERTY: There was a time in New York back a few years ago when he was getting divorced from Ivana when the world just had had much too much of Donald Trump. You know what? We're getting there again.

Question: Americans want what they want when they want it. USA Today story: Starbucks, 19,000 ways to serve a cup of coffee. Tropicana, 24 kinds of orange juice. Dryers -- and it is Dreyers, by the way. Somebody wrote and said it was Breyers. There's a Breyers on the East Coast, but there's also a Dreyers. And east of the Rocky Mountains it's called (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So they have 250 kinds of ice cream, and Frito-Lay has 60 kinds of chips. They started out with two. The question...

HEMMER: And that's not even talking about the pizza. I mean, how many combinations do you get for pizza?

CAFFERTY: We don't have time...

HEMMER: It's extraordinary.

CAFFERTY: We don't have time to go into that right now. In New York -- this is long, but this is, I think, interesting, and gets at something here.

Jay in West Virginia: "It's all about ego, Jack, driven by the small lives most of these people have lived. This is not Brokaw's generation, molded by life-changing events. It's a generation whose most life-changing event was not getting into the college of their first choice. Life for them is important only if they can act like some sort of cheap celebrity tying up a line at Starbucks, ordering a coffee that has more ingredients than something from the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) National Laboratory. There's been no crucible of war or grinding poverty of a depression to shape their character."

HEMMER: Never underestimate an American generation.

O'BRIEN: I'm shallow because I like it with pulp?

HEMMER: I don't buy that for a minute.

CAFFERTY: Moving on to another letter here, Peter from -- please try to ignore these two on the left. Peter in Houston, Texas: "The poor are never picky. Food, water, a bed to sleep on, and some work. The rich are picky because they have so much."

"One draw back, having so much they fear to lose much, which gives rise to reluctance to fight what you believe in. So we believe in nothing and we have everything. Picky is in reverse proportion to beliefs."

John in Biloxi, Mississippi: "What's happened to your buddy jolly old Richard Quest from London? We miss his Friday's visits."

Well, I miss Richard, too. He's traveling the world either on assignment or vacation or both. And we presume at some point he'll be back.

And finally, Bob in South Carolina: "Hey, Jack, glad you finally said something about the furniture on your set. I have wondered for weeks what garage sale that stuff came from and when you were going to take the sheets off the couch seats. My mother always did that before company came."

O'BRIEN: There's no sheets on our couch. HEMMER: It's a lovely reflection of Soledad. It's wonderful. Thirteen dollars will get you a lot these days.

O'BRIEN: It is actually -- I have to say, I don't even mind how it looks. It's really uncomfortable. Well, maybe just because I'm pregnant. But I can't get comfortable.

CAFFERTY: You know, that guy who wrote about the depression and about the great wars and stuff, it's not the fault of anybody who's around now. But it happens to be the circumstances that the current generation grew up in.

HEMMER: I think the point is fine. But I tell Jay to tell that to the men and women fighting overseas in Afghanistan and Iraq.

CAFFERTY: That's not who the letter was addressed to.

HEMMER: Well, it was addressed to the younger generations of Americans. And I would always contend that, never underestimate what the American people are capable of when forced to rise to the challenge.

CAFFERTY: I don't think he made any aspersions on what the American people are capable of.

O'BRIEN: Jay, we need you to call in and clarify your point.

HEMMER: Don't call.

CAFFERTY: Yes. Call Hemmer. I'll give you his home number.

He spends his weekends alone, has no life anyway. Call him at home and talk to him about these things. Actually, you and Aaron may be playing golf this weekend, right?

HEMMER: I'm the caddy.

O'BRIEN: Oh, moving on -- still to come this morning, what could -- there we are. What could counterterrorism officials -- serious story coming up on our top story as well.

Counterterrorism officials, what could they learn if, in fact, al Qaeda's number two to is captured alive? We're going to look at that as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

CAFFERTY: Do they have golf courses over there?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right, 9:32 here in New York. Other than that, there's 28 minutes here on AMERICAN MORNING. We'll catch you up on the fighting in Pakistan.

That number is increasing according to reports we're getting. It was 200 fighters there. Now some are suggesting 300 to 400 possibly. The hunt may be for al Qaeda's second in command. Also taking a look back at the fighting a year ago in Iraq. We'll talk to a reporter embedded with the 101st Airborne Division about the challenges the troops faced a year ago.

Stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, the new segment that we're bringing you every Friday. We call it "Extra Effort."

Today, we're going to introduce you to a woman who's putting the needs of her kids above everything else. She's raising 15 children. Many of these kids have special needs. It's really an amazing story about truly an amazing woman, and her husband, who supports her, too.

HEMMER: Very nice. We'll get to that in a moment.

Also, breaking news from Washington. District of Columbia schools are locked down after bomb threats that are taking place. Public schools there in the nation's capital locked down today. A security sweep now.

A number of bomb threats have been received. This according to a spokesperson for the D.C. school system. Quoting now, "Six threats were made." And police there in the metropolitan area now checking every school and checking with schools now in lockdown. We'll get you more as soon as we get it out of the D.C. area.

So stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: It appears they didn't -- I'm sorry. It appears they didn't name any specific schools, but they named the system generally, which is why they've gone ahead with that lockdown.

HEMMER: Much more when we get it.

Also, from overseas, more international troops arriving in Kosovo in the former Yugoslavia. More than 30 people have been killed in clashes there, 500 have been wounded. It's been called the worse violence there since the end of the war back in the spring of 1999. Hundreds of peacekeeping forces expected over the weekend, including U.S. troops from neighboring Bosnia.

A Spanish court has charged five suspects in connection with the bombings in Madrid. Three Moroccans face 190 counts of mass killing and 1,400 attempted killings. Two other suspects charged with collaborating with a terrorist group. Meanwhile, sources say an Algerian suspect believed to be a member of al Qaeda has been released.

Yet another delay in the arraignment of the man accused of killing nine members of his family in Fresno. Authorities say they're still waiting to file formal charges against Marcus Wesson. Originally, the judge refused to hold his arraignment because the man was without a lawyer. Now the suspect has chosen an attorney, but that attorney has not yet decided whether or not he will take the case. (WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Al Qaeda's number two leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, may be surrounded in the mountains of Pakistan. Pakistani troops have been in a fierce battle with hundreds of fighters that they say are al Qaeda members protecting a "high value target." U.S. officials would like to see al-Zawahiri captured rather than killed.

Kelli Arena in Washington, D.C. for us this morning with much more.

Kelli, good morning.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Well, the battle that is being fought in Pakistan is a bit disconcerting to some counterterrorism officials. If Ayman al- Zawahiri is actually there, they want to get their hands on him alive. Because, as you said, he doesn't do them any good dead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Counterterrorism officials say it's just as crucial to get their hands on Ayman al-Zawahiri as Osama bin Laden.

MATT LEVITT, FMR. FBI ANALYST: Al-Zawahiri is bound to have vast personal knowledge about things that are going on now, where operatives are. He's bound to have cell phones, computers, documents, all the kinds of materials that we are eager to exploit.

ARENA: Officials say it's probably true that Zawahiri spent most of his energy just staying alive, but say he may have real-time information regarding al Qaeda plots. Intelligence officials also believe it is his voice on recent and threatening al Qaeda audiotapes.

Officials say Zawahiri's capture could also offer clues to Osama bin Laden's whereabouts. They believe bin Laden and Zawahiri have maintained close contact and communicate regularly. If Zawahiri is turned over to U.S. custody as expected, officials say he will meet with the same fate as other captured al Qaeda leaders, such as Ramsey bin al-Shibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He'll be whisked away to an undisclosed location, held as an enemy combatant, and interrogated as quickly as possible.

KEN PIERNICK, FMR. FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: You're disoriented and you become unhinged. You have a sense of abandonment. And in that time, you are uniquely vulnerable and may be willing to say things that you might not after you've had the space of time to recover.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Now, it's worth pointing out that U.S. officials have no definitive information that al-Zawahiri is even at the surrounded compound. They are very much in a holding pattern. What's more, terrorism experts repeat what they've been saying for some time, Soledad. That the terror movement is much bigger than any one man or even any organization.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: We heard Condoleezza Rice saying that a little bit earlier this morning. That it's a network. And so taking out one is a good step, but not necessarily the only step.

Kelli, can we turn and talk a little bit about this bomb threat in the Washington, D.C. schools? Because it's on your beat. There was news that Bill was just breaking a minute ago about an Internet threat about bombs in five schools in Washington, D.C.. What do you know about this?

ARENA: Well, actually, there were six threats that came in, and they -- as you had said earlier, which is very important, none of the schools was named. And officials at this point are not sure that the threat is credible. But in this situation, obviously they have to be proactive.

Schools are in lockdown right now. Police are going to each individual school, checking it out, making sure that there's nothing going on.

In the meantime, you have an investigation going on into exactly where those threats came from. You know, without getting too much into speculation, this could be anything from a student who is wreaking havoc, to a legitimate threat. So a two-tiered investigation. One, make sure the kids are safe. The other, find out where the threat came from.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. Kelli Arena for us this morning on a couple of topics.

Thanks, Kelly. Appreciate it.

HEMMER: And 20 minutes before the hour now. March 19th on the calendar.

This is the day marking one year ago when the invasion of Iraq began. And from the call of duty in Iraq, to the fall of Baghdad, a new book takes you to the very front lines with the 101st Airborne Division. Washington Post reporter Rick Atkinson spent about two months embedded with this unit. His book is called "In the Company of Soldiers." It's out today, in fact.

This week, I talked with Rick about his experience there and his chronicle of that war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK ATKINSON, AUTHOR, "IN THE COMPANY OF SOLDIERS": It was a successful military operation. They got to Baghdad in three weeks. They took down a country the size of California, the 25 million people in three weeks.

There was just not much thought or talk devoted to the issue of, OK, what happens now? How do we make sure that the country doesn't implode? How do we go about re-establishing civil authority in Iraq?

The soldiers in the 101st, sure, the military policemen talked about being MPs. But there was really not by the Army or by the armed forces generally the kind of intricate thinking about how you were going to impose phase four, as the Army called it, on Iraq once the shooting had stopped, or at least ebbed.

HEMMER: So at the time, conversation only centered on the battle itself, crossing in northern Kuwait? Nothing post war?

ATKINSON: It's astonishing how little thought was given to what was going to happen after the shooting stopped or at least ebbed. There had been studies done. They had been thinking about it by the State Department and so on. It just did not make its way out into the field.

HEMMER: Is that the responsibility of a soldier or a commander?

ATKINSON: Well, it's the responsibility of senior commanders, I would say. And it's a responsibility, frankly, of the national command authority, from the president, secretary of state, secretary of defense. They're the ones who need to make sure, I think, that, in fact, people are ready for the next step, whatever the next step is going to be.

HEMMER: Do you think there's a lesson learned from that today that's already gone into the military thinking in the Pentagon?

ATKINSON: Oh, you hope so. Because it's clear that you can win the war and lose the peace.

It's a victory of the worst kind if, in fact, you get to Baghdad in three weeks and the country disintegrates ultimately into civil war. We've got 560 some dead American soldiers. You want to make sure that their deaths mean something.

O'BRIEN: It was my experience in Kuwait with the Marines they were relatively gung-ho about carrying out this battle and this war and getting it on like so many had said to me personally. Did you have the same sense?

ATKINSON: Sure. The 101st Airborne Division is the original band of brothers. And they're nothing if not gung-ho.

I think what you saw was a sobriety, though, that set in early. The 101st first casualties came from a fragging (ph). Self-inflicted, a sergeant has been accused of murder, rolled three grenades into tents really the night the division was going into Iraq.

HEMMER: And that was back in Kuwait.

ATKINSON: That was in Kuwait. Two officers killed, 15 wounded. That was a very sobering experience for the division.

HEMMER: When they crossed into Iraq and they met the resistance, how did you gauge the response?

ATKINSON: Well, the resistance was unexpected in the sense that the Apache helicopters -- the 101st has 72 of them -- proved to be very vulnerable. The 11th attack helicopter regiment, a different unit, had flown out on the early morning of the 23rd of March. Two helicopters lost.

Of the 30 that came back, 29 were full of holes, averaging 15 to 20 holes a piece. Basically from small arms fire. The Iraqis had done things like flipped the lights of a town off and on as a signal for everyone with a weapon to fire up into the air.

That was also sobering. So there was a recognition that the Iraqis were going to use tactics that had not been anticipated.

O'BRIEN: General Patraeus asked you many times, I understand, "Tell me how this ends."

ATKINSON: Yes. General Patraeus is a very interesting character. He's the son of a Dutch sea captain. Kind of an unusual background. And he also has a Ph.D. from Princeton.

And he asked me about the 26th of March, tongue and cheek, "Tell me how this ends." And it became his mantra. And it became a private joke between us. "Tell me how this ends."

HEMMER: Your response was what?

ATKINSON: My response was, "You're the general. You tell me how it ends."

HEMMER: Wow.

ATKINSON: And he was not talking, of course, just about the war. He was talking about the whole campaign, the whole business that we're in now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Rick Atkinson earlier in the week, 101st Airborne Division based in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Fought battles in Karbala, Najaf and Hillah, en route to Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, ex Tyco chief Dennis Kozlowski on trial. What are the juries thinking? Andy's got some insight he's going to share in just a moment.

HEMMER: Also, meet a mom who raised seven kids, then turned around and brought more children into her home. Most of them disabled. Her "Extra Effort" in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CAFFERTY: Get the latest now on the Tyco trial. And look at how the markets are set to start out on a quadruple-witching Friday. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Four witches.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

SERWER: The day of four witches. That's the expiration of stock options and futures, and index options and futures, for those of you who want to know that kind of thing.

Markets jumping all over the place this morning, down 27. It was up. That's because of said witching.

Also, markets watching developments in Pakistan. That's unsettling as well.

Nike reporting great numbers after the close last night. That stock has been moving from 50 to 76 over the past year. Wished you owned that one, I bet.

Coca-Cola is also probably going to be active today as well. We reported this earlier. They're pulling all of their Dasani water products in the U.K. Levels of bromide exceeding U.K. legal standards there.

Of course, ironic, because a couple weeks ago there was a story about how they get this water from the tap and purify it. A common practice in the business. Still, unsettling over there.

Now, let's talk about Tyco. Jury deliberations began yesterday. They continue today. And could it be that the jury is leaning toward an acquittal? Wow.

CAFFERTY: Let's hope not.

SERWER: It could be happening, though, Jack. A couple things. The jury sent a note to the judge asking a question, "Can a defendant who believes he or she is not committing a crime ever be found to act with criminal intent?" Well, I thought the answer was yes in this country.

CAFFERTY: Can you spell naive?

SERWER: Yes.